From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Nov 26 21:43:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA24530 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 21:43:53 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id VAA11551 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 21:25:45 -0600 Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 21:25:45 -0600 Message-Id: <199911270325.VAA11551@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1430 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, November 26 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1430 In this digest: IN> Servitors of Blandine IN> Metatron Re: IN> Beating up Marco (was One Tough Taker) IN> Celestial Forms IN> The value of essence Re: IN> Servitors of Blandine Re: IN> Celestial Forms Re: IN> Celestial Forms IN> Character Generation Question Re: IN> Celestial Forms Re: IN> Character Generation Question Re: IN> Remnants and Braindead Humans Re: IN> Judgement dissonance Re: IN> The Destiny and Fate of all Humanity IN> The Fall Lineup on NBC (was RE: Magog) IN> Re: Beautiful Women Pickup Lib-Line Re: IN> Character Generation Question IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! Re: IN> Character Generation Question Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 13:47:42 +1100 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: IN> Servitors of Blandine Dear List, I'm not sure if this has been dealt with before, but can servitors of Dreams (or Nightmares), cause their vessel to vanish when they are on the Ethereal plane and choose to ascend to Heaven, or does the vessel stay on earth? If the vessel stays, how do you get servitors to move from place to place quickly (ie, ascend to Heaven, find the nearest tether to where they want to go, and descend). Thanks, Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 16:34:37 +1100 From: bichwa@telstra.easymail.com.au Subject: IN> Metatron I'm working on a writeup for Metatron, as fallen DP of mech (because I can, and I'm feeling incredibly infantile at the moment. Actually, scrub at the moment) but I'm having trouble coming up with servitor attunements. Could anyone give me a hand or some ideas on what to go on? Help appreciated. Kris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 16:34:36 +1100 From: bichwa@telstra.easymail.com.au Subject: Re: IN> Beating up Marco (was One Tough Taker) >What, you daring me to come up with a character who's an evil combat >monster _and_ useful for something else? Umm, I would say yes, but I wouldn't want to possibly offend you. Perhaps grovelling would be a better way to put it? Kris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 23:57:10 -0600 From: Santiago Subject: IN> Celestial Forms Okay, Seraphim look like six-eyed winged snakes, and Balseraphs look like evil six-eyed winged snakes. Cherubim look like winged animals, and Djinn look like evil animals. Elohim look like androgynous hairless humans, and Habbalah look like scarred, tattooed humans. Malakim don't fall. Lilim look like green, horned humans, and Bright Lilim look like colored winged humans. Kyriotates look like clouds of eyes, limbs, and whatnot, and Shedim look like black clouds of mouths, organs, and whatnot. Mercurians look like winged, haloed people, and Impudites look like evil winged, haloed people. But, Ophanim look like wheels of fire, and Calabim look like nasty, red-faced, bat-winged demons. Anyone else have a problem with that last one? - -- Santiago ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 01:08:33 -0600 From: Santiago Subject: IN> The value of essence So, we know essence is the universal currency, and that all things are ultimately made with it. This naturally brings up the question of how much essence a given thing costs. Well, we know that ten essence will get rid of one point of dissonance. Three dissonance equal one level of discord, and one level of discord equals three character points, so ten essence equals one character point. Thus, if we had 100 essence to burn, we ought to be able to grow ourselves a new force, but there's no way an ordinary celestial can have that much at once. However, we have the curious situation with regards to vessels. When our superior gives us one, we only have to cash in three brownie points per level, regardless of what that vessel is, which works out to thirty essence per level, assuming the previous rate. But, when creating vessels (if you're either an ethereal or stuck in Limbo, as garden-variety celestials can't pull this trick normally), vessels cost fifteen essence per level per base force of the organism being emulated. Thus, if your superior is giving you vessels of anything with more than two forces (like, say, humans), you're getting a pretty good deal there. - -- Santiago ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 23:36:03 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Servitors of Blandine >From: "Leath Sheales" >I'm not sure if this has been dealt with before, but can servitors of >Dreams >(or Nightmares), cause their vessel to vanish when they are on the Ethereal >plane and choose to ascend to Heaven, or does the vessel stay on earth? I don't think it's been addressed before :) I think of it like this. There are two main ways to get to Heaven (or Hell) from the Marches. Either a celestial chooses to return to its heart directly, or it can climb Blandine's Tower -- which is a tether between the Marches and Heaven. (So is Gabriel's Volcano, IIRC) I would say that it may only be possible to 'return directly to your heart' if your body and mind are currently together (ie. an angel will need to drop back into its vessel to ascend). However, any angel can climb the tower -- and if it uses the tether there to ascend to heaven then its vessel WILL disappear on Earth. Since 'The Marches' says that any time an angel goes to sleep and appears in the Marches, it will appear at the base of Blandine's Tower, it isn't difficult for any celestial to get to their appropriate ethereal-celestial tether to do this. So the preferred method for servitors of Beleth or Blandine to ascend would be through the towers. But since you can only get back to Earth through a tether, I'd imagine it isn't dissonant for them to use tethers, unless the GM is particularly mean. jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 01:04:06 -0700 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Celestial Forms At 11:57 PM 11/25/99 -0600, you wrote: > Okay, Seraphim look like six-eyed winged snakes, and >Balseraphs look like evil six-eyed winged snakes. Cherubim look like Many-eyed. :) >But, Ophanim look like wheels of fire, and Calabim look like nasty, Ofanim. :) >red-faced, bat-winged demons. Anyone else have a problem with that >last one? Ofanim embody motion. The rings of fire demonstrate this: always turning, always flickering, always spinning around each other. (It's hard to track a single ring in a powerful Ofanite, much less a single point on a single ring. Heck, it's hard to /count/ the rings in a powerful Ofanite.) Calabim embody destruction: motion turned outward. All of the motion has been taken /out/ of them, and their forms solidify. All of the motion and change is elsewhere. It's an interesting insight into what I see as the personality of the Calabim as a whole. They prefer motion and change in other things, with as little internal change as possible. (In fact, I have a mind to give Calabim an additional dissonance condition: every time their player spends character points on something, they gain an additional point of dissonance - - and this counts for each thing upgraded, not just one per session of spending. It nicely explains the discord they already have - Fallen Calabim had to change to get to their current state, which is abhorrent, and created Calabim started getting dissonance as soon as they fledged into demons, roughly one level of Discord per Force gained.) Calabim hate changing themselves and will complain loudly and profanely if it's forced. (Another reason why Vapula doesn't like Calabim!) Having written that, I'm starting to like Calabim a lot more. Maybe I /will/ run a demons game... - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 03:28:04 -0600 From: Shadowstar Subject: Re: IN> Celestial Forms At 11:57 PM -0600 11/25/99, Santiago wrote: [snippage of how Fallen look like warped/evil versions of their Choir counterparts] >But, Ophanim look like wheels of fire, and Calabim look like nasty, >red-faced, bat-winged demons. Anyone else have a problem with that >last one? I do. But you see, here's the toughy. How do you represent something that's stopped moving? That has this field of raw entropy vibrating outwards from some stable centerpoint? Someone once described Calabim in their own game as being a cyclone of entropic forces. I've dones something similar in regards to how I describe Calabim. Items break down, and are sucked into the gaping maw of some tiny singularity. They still spiral, except now the movement is inward instead of an outward thrust. Instead of a ring of fire, they are now a black hole that rips apart the threads of the Symphony. Mind, I probably could come up with a prettier description for them, but at 3am the day after serving Nybbas and Haagenti in one sitting means I'm a lack for the proper words. Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centurytel.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://home.centurytel.net/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 07:45:45 EST From: McGrygr@aol.com Subject: IN> Character Generation Question I recently got my hands on a copy of the RPG and am very excited over it. I love the information that is included as well as the info i found on various websites. 2 questions some players of mine, as well as I, is this... We made a few characters, particularly outcasts, and were wondering how much dissonance does the character receive? I know they receive a discord (type)/3, but if they have a dissonance of 0, then they would be able to ascend into heaven, no? I am confused about this ruling in the character generation. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 07:53:35 EST From: McGrygr@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Celestial Forms In a message dated 11/26/99 4:24:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, shadowstar@centurytel.net writes: << But, Ophanim look like wheels of fire, and Calabim look like nasty, >red-faced, bat-winged demons. Anyone else have a problem with that >last one? >> What about the myth of a gargoyle? Most gargoyle statues resemble Calabim's in my opinion and they are in a non-moving stationery state, particularly suring say hours. Its not to say a Gargoyle is a Calabim, but would be interesting to represent it as. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 05:50:51 -0800 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> Character Generation Question McGrygr@aol.com wrote: > I > I know they receive a discord (type)/3, but if they have a dissonance of > 0, then they would be able to ascend into heaven, no? I am confused about > this ruling in the character generation. If I recall, they -can- Ascend, it's just not a good idea, since Judgement will be on them in a heartbeat. - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 23:15:26 -0000 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> Remnants and Braindead Humans From: John Karakash > > IMO, while an > interesting idea, raises all sorts of canonical problems. > Can you keep a celestial/ethereal from going to their > realms by putting their vessel on a heart/lung machine? > i'd say that vessels work differently to human bodies. mortals are natural to the corporeal world, their forces are linked to their physical forms. vessels are just "meat suits" that celestials use to make life on earth easier liam ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 23:22:02 -0000 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> Judgement dissonance From: The Alien > So here is the idea: Dominic takes the dissonance of his Servitors on > himself in such situations. Of course, it's painful. And he would > probably Fall rather quickly or use vast amounts of essence...if he wasn't > a Malakite. > cool ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 23:21:24 -0000 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> The Destiny and Fate of all Humanity From: Santiago > I myself feel that creating something so much better than > humanity that it makes obsolete is a truly noble goal. > i don't see why making something nicer than us makes us obsolete. unless of course your cunning plan involves destroying all of humanity so that your robotic minions will rule the world liam ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 10:40:11 -0600 From: Michael Mihallik Subject: IN> The Fall Lineup on NBC (was RE: Magog) This fall, all you imps and impettes will be clawing for the remote! A few new shows from the Nybbas Broadcasting Network... The Fresh Prince of Shal-Mari Charmed (ok... so I like Impudites...) Haagenti - When Good Pets Go Bad Greed, sponsored by Mammon M. 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Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 13:38:10 -0700 To: David Bruner ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 14:23:20 -0600 From: Shadowstar Subject: Re: IN> Character Generation Question At 7:45 AM -0500 11/26/99, McGrygr@aol.com wrote: > We made a few characters, particularly outcasts, and were wondering how >much dissonance does the character receive? As much as the GM wishes to assign, otherwise canonically you get 0 points of dissonance to start with. It's assumed that any Discord you purchase is the transformed state dissonance you recieved in becoming the Outcast/Renegade. > I know they receive a discord (type)/3, but if they have a dissonance of >0, then they would be able to ascend into heaven, no? I am confused about >this ruling in the character generation. They cannot ascend to Heaven (or return to Hell in the case of Renegades) because they shattered their Heart (or in the case of outcasting, the Heart cracked for them). Without a Heart to call them, they simply haven't means to find the celestial plane. They still can try to follow someone who does have a Heart though. . . Also, Outcasts _can_ take celestial form still. That got errated, along with a bunch of other stuff. So always check the Errata. . . Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centurytel.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://home.centurytel.net/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 13:34:18 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! Get them! Get them now. GMG is a beautiful, excellently-done book. Not only is it very pretty, but it's well-filled. The timeline rules. I love comparing when, say, David came around to when Laurence was created... gives you a great perspective. And the writings on Lucifer are splendid. And Superiors 1... *sniff*... good old Dominic, I love whoever wrote him up. Brings tears to my eyes. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 17:41:04 -0500 From: Kim Foster Subject: Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! At 01:34 PM 11/26/99 -0700, you wrote: >Get them! Get them now. GMG is a beautiful, excellently-done book. Not >only is it very pretty, but it's well-filled. The timeline rules. I love >comparing when, say, David came around to when Laurence was created... gives >you a great perspective. And the writings on Lucifer are splendid. > >And Superiors 1... *sniff*... good old Dominic, I love whoever wrote him up. >Brings tears to my eyes. > >Ben > > Ween were these releaed? I haven't seen either of them locally. Just what is Superiors 1? Is it a reprint of the expanded Superiors write ups in the Revelations books?/ > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 16:59:01 -0600 From: Shadowstar Subject: Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! At 5:41 PM -0500 11/26/99, Kim Foster wrote: >Ween were these releaed? When were these released you ask? Supposedly, according to SJGames, this week. >I haven't seen either of them locally. Neither have I, but then again I haven't had a chance to check my local gaming haunt yet. . . >Just what is Superiors 1? Is it a reprint of the expanded Superiors write >ups in the Revelations books?/ Yes, and then some. Basically it takes everything from the Main Book, the Expanded Writeups that have been done thus far, and added a bunch of NEW stuff. Including the long awaited Superior Sigils (like the Choir/Band Sigils from the APG/IPG)! They're also going to go into detail of Superiors that have not had an expanded writeups yet (starting with Andrealphus, Haagenti and Nybbas for Superiors 2)! The details provided by this line of books is impressive, and will make even those writeups from the Revelations cycle pale in comparission! Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centurytel.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://home.centurytel.net/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 18:53:50 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! At 5:41 PM -0500 11/26/99, Kim Foster wrote: >At 01:34 PM 11/26/99 -0700, you wrote: > >Get them! Get them now. GMG is a beautiful, excellently-done book. Not > >only is it very pretty, but it's well-filled. The timeline rules. I love > >comparing when, say, David came around to when Laurence was created... gives > >you a great perspective. And the writings on Lucifer are splendid. > > > >And Superiors 1... *sniff*... good old Dominic, I love whoever wrote him up. > >Brings tears to my eyes. > > > >Ben > > > > > >Ween were these releaed? I haven't seen either of them locally. Just what is >Superiors 1? Is it a reprint of the expanded Superiors write ups in the >Revelations books?/ It's a "reprint" of the expanded Superiors write ups in the same way those write ups were "reprints" of the core book material. The material from both sources is in Superiors 1, along with a ton more detail and corrections and the like. Assuming something radical didn't change from Playtest, I'll thumb up Superiors 1 without qualification. I can't say the same for some (not all) of the Revelations books, and I liked them more than some.... - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 18:54:34 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! At 4:59 PM -0600 11/26/99, Shadowstar wrote: >At 5:41 PM -0500 11/26/99, Kim Foster wrote: > > Yes, and then some. Basically it takes everything from the Main Book, >the Expanded Writeups that have been done thus far, and added a bunch of >NEW stuff. Including the long awaited Superior Sigils (like the Choir/Band >Sigils from the APG/IPG)! They're also going to go into detail of >Superiors that have not had an expanded writeups yet (starting with >Andrealphus, Haagenti and Nybbas for Superiors 2)! Sigils? Sigils? Jewelry? *Please?* - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 19:17:30 EST From: McGrygr@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Character Generation Question Thanx all for the help =) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 18:27:45 -0600 From: Shadowstar Subject: Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! At 6:54 PM -0500 11/26/99, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >Sigils? Yep. >Sigils? Though I don't personally have the book yet, it has been confirmed by my sources in high places that indeed there are Superior Sigils in the new Superiors 1 book. >Jewelry? Yes! >*Please?* (EDG, can we have another survey involving people wanting Superior Jewelry too? Well, after you run the survey that involved IN: Hell and/or Shal-Mari and/or Marches. You know, the books that are slightly more important to the line than say, IN South America or IN Wild West.) Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centurytel.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://home.centurytel.net/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 22:15:28 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! At 6:27 PM -0600 11/26/99, Shadowstar wrote: > > > (EDG, can we have another survey involving people wanting Superior >Jewelry too? Well, after you run the survey that involved IN: Hell and/or >Shal-Mari and/or Marches. You know, the books that are slightly more >important to the line than say, IN South America or IN Wild West.) IN South America. The first supplement proposed (at least through the last Survey) that I can't imagine buying.... IN Wild West I'd (hopefully get for playtesting but if I didn't then I supposed I'd) probably buy, if it were 97% Word-bound and included Y2K versions of the surviving Word-bound and how they've weathered the diminishing natures of their Words. Heck -- a section on the old Demons who threw their lot in with Nybbas (and have some chance at keeping their Words alive) would go a long way to explaining the popularity of the Western in the first few decades of the Golden Age of the Media.... - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1430 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.