From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Nov 29 13:05:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA13824 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 1999 13:05:34 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id NAA04510 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 29 Nov 1999 13:02:02 -0600 Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 13:02:02 -0600 Message-Id: <199911291902.NAA04510@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1433 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, November 29 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1433 In this digest: IN> The Angel Moroni IN> Children of the Grigori (and other angels) Re: IN> The Angel Moroni Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! Re: IN> Mercurians and Shedim Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! IN> Moroni Re: IN> Mercurians and Shedim Re: IN> Moroni Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! Re: IN> Newbie Re: IN> Malakim and Dissonance (was One Tough Taker) Re: IN> Mercurians and Shedim IN> Stranger than fiction Re: IN> Stranger than fiction IN> Zen Re: IN> Celestial Forms Re: IN> Stranger than fiction Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! Re: IN> Stranger than fiction Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! IN> Weird Default. Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! IN> (no subject) Re: IN> Children of the Grigori (and other angels) Re: IN> Mercurians and Shedim Re: IN> Newbie ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 16:09:52 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> The Angel Moroni >>>Also, Moroni wouldn't work as an angel unless you're going to say that he was made one by a Divine act. He has his own book within the BoM ( Book of Mormon) and is listed as a decendant of the man Mormon.<<< Sure you could. You just say that the Mormons don't have things exactly correct (as none of the other religions do either). >>>As for satiring Moroni, to do so would set the standard that would require that you also satire all the other faiths out there. (There are WAY too many to go into here).<<< Why? Since when must satire be equal opportunity? ;) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 16:13:15 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Children of the Grigori (and other angels) >>>Would the "percentage" of angel in each successive generation be higher? That is, after 5 generations, would the resulting child be 98.4% angelic?<<< No, he'd be 100% human. Human in the same sense that Children of the Grigori are human, but still human. >>>If so, what are the results of this?<<< Depends. If we're talking about Grigori as the angelic part of the ancestry, you'd have a pretty potent Child of the Grigori. If it was other angels using the Celestial Song of Fruition, you'd have a celestial "halfbreed" who's not necessarily any different from other halfbreeds. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 17:27:14 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> The Angel Moroni At 4:09 PM -0600 11/28/99, David Edelstein wrote: > >>>Also, Moroni wouldn't work as an angel unless you're going to say >that he was made one by a Divine act. He has his own book within the >BoM ( Book of Mormon) and is listed as a decendant of the man Mormon.<<< > >Sure you could. You just say that the Mormons don't have things exactly >correct (as none of the other religions do either). Which is more or less what I meant as well. To have Moroni work pretty much exactly as the LDS claimed would be to imply the LDS were right and all the other faiths were wrong. When one of the central themes of In Nomine is that no human faith is 100% right -- and that even the angels and demons don't have the full truth (About Christ, for one). I'd resist making Moroni as CDaU as Christ is -- I think there are some great IN hooks for Moroni as they stand. And while one of the tenets of the LDS is that all humanity can become as Gods/Angels etc. and Moroni and Mormon are held up as two of those icons, the simple Canon truth of In Nomine is humans *can't* become Angels. Better, I think, to make Moroni an angel, with Mormon either a previous vessel or a Soldier/Saint Moroni cultivated (or make Mormon CDaU). For one thing, if no angels are truly associated with the LDS, I still say that cheapens the LDS compared to the other religions and sects in In Nomine. Gabrial herself was on hand for Islam and Christianity. Several Archangels have patronized the Jewish faith in the past. To say the LDS was founded by a Saint implies no heavenly support at all, which I think is a worse course to go down. On the other hand, if one *did* want to satirize them, that would be the route to take. Especially if Moroni was actually a Dream Shade. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 16:27:56 -0600 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! well then consider this my official begging. but _before_ Superior jewelry I'd like to see Demon jewelry. ...need Calabim sigil... - -Dennis H. Groome V "Amo Nympham" ICQ: 11340261 http://evm-gamers.freeservers.com "I think I woke up screaming, 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -Stabbing Westward, ACF - -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth McCoy To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Saturday, November 27, 1999 3:41 PM Subject: Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! >At 6:54 PM -0500 11/26/99, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >>At 4:59 PM -0600 11/26/99, Shadowstar wrote: >>Jewelry? > >I don't know. > >>*Please?* > >Well, if enough people beg enough... > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 16:37:36 -0600 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> Mercurians and Shedim - -Dennis H. Groome V "Amo Nympham" ICQ: 11340261 http://evm-gamers.freeservers.com "I think I woke up screaming, 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -Stabbing Westward, ACF - -----Original Message----- From: Meehan Anthony To: 'in_nomine-l@lists.io.com' Date: Sunday, November 28, 1999 5:00 AM Subject: IN> Mercurians and Shedim >Mercurians gain dissonance for violence except when fighting demons. How >does this work in the case of Shedim (or anyone using the song of possession >for that matter). Are you being violent to a human or a demon? Dissonance or >no? it's still dissonant. call for backup, or find some non-violent way to subdue the demon, win the situation, or just plain run. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 18:51:20 -0500 (EST) From: jadasc@ma.ultranet.com (Jason Schneiderman) Subject: Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! >well then consider this my official begging. but _before_ Superior jewelry >I'd like to see Demon jewelry. >...need Calabim sigil... *nod* Shame Georgia doesn't read this list. Then again... since I've never actually seen one of the pieces in a game store or on an IN player, I have to wonder how many of us actually bought (with cash, not MIB points or swag) any of the angelic ones? The woman's got to make a living, after all - it may not be worth her time to make any more of them. Maybe the idea that gamers will wear nicely-made icon jewelry was a mistake; perhaps all we want is cheap, painted tin after all. Jason Schneiderman, who briefly considered getting the Balseraph icon as a tattoo. - --- jadasc@ma.ultranet.com (life) werther@hilander.com (play) jayafter12am@hotmail.com (late-night) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 18:16:12 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! From: "Jason Schneiderman" > > *nod* Shame Georgia doesn't read this list. > Then again... since I've never actually seen one of the pieces in a game > store or on an IN player, I have to wonder how many of us actually bought > (with cash, not MIB points or swag) any of the angelic ones? If I could've found the Malakim icon anywhere at all, I woulda bought it. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 17:23:33 -0700 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! At 06:16 PM 11/28/99 -0600, you wrote: >If I could've found the Malakim icon anywhere at all, I woulda bought it. Try http://www.warehouse23.com/search.cgi?keywords=malakim&comp=0&cat=9&pline=0& gtype=0&status= Or, head to Warehouse 23 yourself, and do a search for "malakim", Category: wearables. :) Cheers, EDG ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 18:43:50 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! From: "EDG" > > Or, head to Warehouse 23 yourself, and do a search for "malakim", Category: > wearables. :) No credit cards, tho'. If the Warehouse accepts checks, then I am SO there... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 17:50:24 -0700 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! At 06:43 PM 11/28/99 -0600, you wrote: >No credit cards, tho'. If the Warehouse accepts checks, then I am SO >there... Unless something's changed drastically, they do - in fact, it's the default setting on the order page. :) - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 19:05:51 -0600 From: Shadowstar Subject: Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! At 6:51 PM -0500 11/28/99, Jason Schneiderman wrote: >*nod* Shame Georgia doesn't read this list. >Then again... since I've never actually seen one of the pieces in a game >store or on an IN player, I have to wonder how many of us actually bought >(with cash, not MIB points or swag) any of the angelic ones? I bought an Infernal Cross, and a Seraphim pin. I lost both, so I need to buy them _again_ and maybe pick up the Malakite one as well. >Jason Schneiderman, who briefly considered getting the Balseraph icon as a >tattoo. (I admit I like the Balseraph one, but it somehow pales against the Seraph pin) Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centurytel.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://home.centurytel.net/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 19:10:14 -0600 From: Shadowstar Subject: Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! At 6:16 PM -0600 11/28/99, Prodigal wrote: >If I could've found the Malakim icon anywhere at all, I woulda bought it. Besides Warehouse 23, you can _also_ order all the In Nomine pins directly from Georgia's Website. Java's Crypt: http://www.cam.org/~java/sjg/ On top of that, she also has mentioned that Band Sigils are in the works! I'm all over the Balseraph Sigil! Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centurytel.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://home.centurytel.net/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 20:15:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Gant Subject: IN> Moroni A while back, I actually considered writing up stats for Moroni. The current discussion has just given me an excuse. MORONI SAINT OF WAR CORPOREAL 3 Strength 6 Dexterity 6 Body Hits 36 ETHEREAL 2 Intelligence 4 Precision 4 Mind Hits 8 CELESTIAL 3 Will 5 Perception 7 Soul Hits 15 VESSEL: Human (Dark-skinned, dark-haired male) SKILLS: Dodge/3, Emote/2, Fighting/1, Knowledge (Metalworking)/2, Languages (Olmec, "Reformed Egyptian")/4, Languages (English, Spanish)/2, Large Weapon (Sword, Spear)/3, Medicine/1, Ranged Weapon (Bow)/3, Running/3, Tactics/4 SONGS: Charm (Corporeal/3), Light (Corporeal/4), Motion (Corporeal/2, Celestial/4), Shields (Corporeal/2) ATTUNEMENTS: One to One, Proficiency (Sword) Moroni began life as a mortal, like every other Saint. He was the son of another Soldier of War, and part of Michael's attempt to create a nation of Soldiers. Unfortunatly, he had the misfortune to be born at a time when the experiment was failing. A resurgence in the strength and popularity of native religions was driving deep divisions in the loose nation, and many who had once followed Michael's religion were now drawn to the "old ways". Worse, Malphas had learned of Michael's efforts. The influence of the Prince of Factions only fed the conflicts, and religious warfare soon broke out. Unwilling to abandon his people, Moroni followed in his father's footsteps and became a general in the armies. He led his outnumbered armies in a series of fighting retreats, watching in disgust as the people he led became less and less distinct from the people he fought. When the final battle was fought at the hill named Cumorah, he was the only survivor. Upon his death, Moroni chose to become a recorporealized Saint and continue his service to War. Most of his time was spent in Central and South America, promoting the word of War and the goals of Heaven and hoping to rebuild Michael's experiment. He had some small successes, but never created the new "golden age" he hoped for. The coming of Europeans brought hope for a short period - their religion was different than the one he had been raised with, but it was similar enough. Those hopes were dashed as the Spaniards settled in to enslave the local populace and establish plantations. Moroni began to move among the populace again, assisting the slaves in revolts and helping them to escape whenever possible. When Michael attempted his experiment again, Moroni was called on to serve as the intermediary. Much to his surprise, he was sent to a young man of European descent in North America. After several visits over the space of four years, he delivered the record he had worked on th Joseph Smith. Moroni continues his original work on Earth today, working for Indian rights and promoting the virtues of his Archangel's Word wherever he can. He typically has little to do with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as the assignments Michael gives him lie elsewhere. He hopes they will usher in the "golden age" he longs to see, but fears he sees signs of the same decay that destroyed his people. Oh, for those who are wondering: Reformed Egyptian is the language the original Book of Mormon was written in, and is described as ancient Hebrew (probably with Egyptian loan-words) written in hieratic Egyptian scritp suffering from linguistic drift. It's my assumption that it became a priestly language (much like Church Latin), and nobody living today speaks it. Anyway, comments? If anyone's interested, I also have my notes somewhere for In Nomine-izing the plot of the Book of Mormon and the history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/4656/ The Returners Final Fantasy Role-Playing Game Site: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Matrix/5758/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 22:24:13 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Mercurians and Shedim >Mercurians gain dissonance for violence except when fighting demons. How >does this work in the case of Shedim (or anyone using the song of possession >for that matter). Are you being violent to a human or a demon? Both. Which means you get dissonance. Alas. OTOH, keep in mind that you can usually *fix* dissonance by un-doing whatever you did to get it. So, grit your teeth against the pain of Dissonance... pound the snot out of that demon-possessed human... drive out the demon... and then use the Corporeal Song of Healing to fix the damage. Just make sure you don't *kill* the human, because that can't be fixed as easily. This has popped up occasionally IMC... and on one memorable and humourous occasion, led to a strange game of brinksmanship between Merc and Shed. Angel: I'll kill him! I mean it! Demon: You're bluffing! Angel: [pounds on immobilized human host a bit more, reducing it to last few Body hits] I'm warning you...! Demon: You're not getting me out of here! The angels, you see, had a couple of PCs who were killers in Celestial combat... they'd chase down a demon, whale on it until it went celestial, then go celestial themselves and try to rip a Force off it before it could descend to Hell. A crude strategy, and LOUD, but when it worked it worked well. This particular Shed, therefore, was understandably quite reluctant to leave his safe hidey-hole... and I ruled that just shoving the Merc to the back of the party wasn't going to inoculate him from Dissonance in this case, since he was a member of the party and expected to benefit from their violence. The Symphony can't be fooled... Remember, though, that having its host killed causes the _Shedite_ a note of Dissonance, forces it to go Celestial, and puts it in deadly danger of being forced back to Hell if it can't find another host. So it ain't all gravy for the Oozing Ones. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 22:34:32 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Moroni Nice writeup. I might use him sometime. Saints, IMO, are somewhat neglected (at least on this mailing list)... the potential uses for historical characters are pretty much endless. My players have encountered a couple of them (including Harry Truman, who has become the Patron Saint of Dealing With The Bomb), and they seem to enjoy them quite a bit. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 22:30:57 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! At 6:51 PM -0500 11/28/99, Jason Schneiderman wrote: > >well then consider this my official begging. but _before_ Superior jewelry > >I'd like to see Demon jewelry. > >...need Calabim sigil... > >*nod* Shame Georgia doesn't read this list. >Then again... since I've never actually seen one of the pieces in a game >store or on an IN player, I have to wonder how many of us actually bought >(with cash, not MIB points or swag) any of the angelic ones? The woman's >got to make a living, after all - it may not be worth her time to make any >more of them. Maybe the idea that gamers will wear nicely-made icon jewelry >was a mistake; perhaps all we want is cheap, painted tin after all. I bought with real cash. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 22:55:37 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Newbie An alternate view on IN essentials... >The Main Book: Essential to any In Nomine game. A must-have for GMs; not >necessary for players, but recommended. Yep. They managed to pack quite a lot into a pretty small package; it's a complete game system (if a somewhat simple one) plus a neat, complex, and provocative world. Plus good art and generally high production values. >The Revelations Cycle: Much-maligned, especially _Fall of the Malakim_ and >_Final Trumpet_. Good to have if you're completing a set, but much of the >information has been reprinted elsewhere. IMO these followed the same rule as Beethoven's symphonies: the odd-numbered ones were good, the even-numbered ones were... um, less good. >The Game Master Pack: GMs should have this. Players shouldn't. ;) The GM screen is a bit... lurid. This is the sort of art that looks great in a book, less great standing upright on a tabletop where your grandmother might wander by. "What's that game you boys are playing now...?" But it's not *dreadful*, and it does attract interest and attention, so I suppose that's OK. And you get a decent little adventure in there for your eight bucks. >The Guides: >- Angelic Player's Guide: It's good if you're playing or running angels. >However, due to many errata and a bulky ruleset, many have called for a >second edition. I think this is mostly the Infernal Legions of Nitpicking at work. My group doesn't find the APG unbalancing, folks playing a particular Choir get to know its rules real quick-like, and there aren't _that_ many errata. My biggest complaint about it, actually, is the Rowena cover. Yuck. >- Infernal Player's Guide: Commonly regarded as superior to the _APG_, >great if you're running or playing demons. Yep, a nice piece of work. I'd call the APG "good to very good" and this one "excellent", but IMO they're both equally useful and desirable. >- Corporeal Player's Guide: Commonly regarded as vastly superior to the >previous two, the CPG is nigh-indispensable for GMs and players, if only >for reference material. "Commonly regarded"? Not by me, I fear. I didn't much care for the CPG and wouldn't strongly recommend it to a newbie unless he was planning to run a very human-centric campaign. For details... well, I posted a review of it a couple of months ago -- the archives are searchable, so plug in my name and "Corporeal Players Guide" and it should pop right out. >- Game Master's Guide: Excellent. It's just barely hit stores, though, so >keep an eye out for it. Obviously, this is something that GMs should have, >and players possibly shouldn't. Haven't seen it yet, can't say. >The Books Of: >- Liber Reliquarum: The Book of Relics (LR). Rules for creating relics, >and advice on using them, as well as many, many sample relics. Also >includes Living Artifacts. Probably my least favorite IN book. Too much like a standard "magic items" catalog for other RPGs, and I didn't like the adventure either. >- Liber Canticorum: The Book of Songs (LC*, Songbook). Rules for songs >(including advanced skills etc.), and many, many sample Songs. Includes >Restricted, Hidden, and Lost songs, as well as Choir- and Band-specific Songs. Seen it, flipped through it, don't have it. Looked good. >- Liber Castellorum: The Book of Tethers (LC*, Tetherbook). Rules for >Tethers, and many, many sample Tethers, by Superior and then by importance. > Also rules for Seneschals. Haven't seen it, can't comment. >- Liber Servitorum: The Book of Servitors (LS). The Who's Who of In >Nomine. Many, many sample NPCs (and some PCs for a pinch). Just got it. It's quite good. Not sure if it'd be real useful to a newbie, but it's good. Basically your standard RPG "rogues gallery" of pre-generated characters -- angels, demons, humans, ethereals, and others -- plus some short sections on Roles and Servants. But it's set well above most other RPG supplements by the high quality of the work. Most of these characters are plot hooks *and* interesting in their own right. I thought there were more "wow" demonic characters than angelic, but this is a minor quibble. Several of these guys will be appearing as NPCs IMC in the not-too-distant future, which is the highest praise I can give. >- You Are Here: The Book of Locations (Liber Locorum, LL, YAH). The >Where's Where of In Nomine. Many, many sample non-Tether locations, by >realm (Corporeal, Ethereal, Celestial). One thumb up... it's basically a collection of plot hooks. Whether this works for you depends in large part on whether you're someone who likes buying plot hooks at the store, in bulk. YMMV. FWIW, I found only two or three places in this book that made me think, hey, that's going into my campaign. Well, there were also three or four that made me sit up and say, wow, _neat_ idea... even if I wouldn't care to work them into the campaign as anything but a cameo. The Museum of the Nightmares of Murderers, for instance... But anyhow, by way of comparison, I found at least half a dozen characters in the Book of Servitors that will almost certainly pop up IMC, plus as many again who *might*, plus several more who hit the "neat idea" button. One man's reaction. >The Superiorbooks: Haven't seen yet, can't comment. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 23:17:06 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and Dissonance (was One Tough Taker) Thanksgiving week intervened before I could get back to this thread... [A Malakite has Screwed Up Bigtime, allowing a Cherub's attuned to be horribly killed through inattention. He didn't violate any of his oaths, though, so no Dissonance...] >>(This actually happened IMC. Tell you how I handled it, but first I'd like >>to hear how you would have). > >Okay... I'd figure that he feels really awful. Not dissonant -- he didn't >swear an oath -- but really, really bad. Not to mention PO'ed because his >inactions aided evil. Possibly even physically ill to some extent (stress >ulcer!). Heh. This involved a player who displayed intermittent Munchkinitis. He showed it when he ran off to chase evil, and then again when he defiantly declared that he _wouldn't_ take Dissonance. I said no, that's fine, you won't... and then proceeded to lay the social pressure on. The Cherub was heartborken, burst into tears, and flew away; his fellow Malakim refused to talk to him. After a bit it began to sink in. Then he swung over to being _too_ depsondent ("I'll swear another oath!")... Eventually I let him swear the oath, while telling him he still would have to make things up to the Cherub (somehow) in order to get back in the good social graces of his blackwinged brethren. That character ended up crashing and burning a bit later. We re-equipped the player with an Ofanite, and everyone was much happier. Hint for new GMs: Munchkinish players, if forced to take angels, will gravitate towards Malakim "because they're cool". This tendency should be resisted, as Mals are actually rather difficult to play well. Seraphs and Kyrios are almost as bad, and munchkins tend to get confused by an Elohite or Mercurian, and bored by a Cherub. Give 'em an Ofanite. Munchkin: I dunno... all they do is find stuff and move fast... GM: But look at all those cool attunements. Really, they have the coolest ones of any Choir. Ofanim of War always hit first, Ofanim of Fire are immune to Fire, and Ofanim of Lightning... ooooh... Munchkin: [weakening] But Malakim get _respect_... GM: [in Balseraph mode] Oh, Ofanim get respect too! They're the second highest Choir! [thinking, and it's _in character_ for them to behave like thoughtless idiots sometimes....] >Why didn't the Cherub get DANGER warnings in Heaven so he could descend >and locate his attuned, though? The "If it is destroyed, or in immediate >mortal danger, he will know instantly" p. 95) always suggested that while >a Cherub'd have to roll Perception to _find_ said attuned, he'd know that >he needed to do it, RIGHT NOW. Song of Shields, babe. The demon's best friend when he wants to whip up to Earth, do some serious evil, and duck back Downstairs again in a hurry. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 23:50:47 -0500 From: Ehrbar Subject: Re: IN> Mercurians and Shedim > (On a side note, a non-violent mercy killing (like Dr. Kevorkian) > certainly doesn't violate the letter of the dissonance condition, > and is fairly in line with the spirit of it as well, as it helps to > improve the human condition by easing needless suffering, though it's > still sorta iffy.) First, according to the FAQ, even using a tranquilizer dart is dissonant. Second, Kevorkian is *not* a good example here. If you'd like, I'll run through the local newspaper archive to get you the details, but 1) his patients included people with nonfatal nonpainful but disabling conditions; 2) people with nonpainful nondisabling early stages of eventually fatal diseases; 3) people with nonfatal, nondisabling but painful conditions who were not recieving proper pain medication; and 4) even possibly people who did not have any illness other than clinical depression at all (postmortem reports claimed no evidence of the claimed illness). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 01:42:13 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: IN> Stranger than fiction Just in case people haven't seen this news story yet: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_540000/540918.stm (OK, so it's in bad taste because people were hurt. But since everyone I mentioned this to thought I was making it up, I thought I'd pass it on) jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 10:32:02 -0500 From: "Chris Bergstresser" Subject: Re: IN> Stranger than fiction What do you figure -- Remnant of the Sword? - -- Chris - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jo Hart > Just in case people haven't seen this news story yet: > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_540000/540918.stm > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 09:36:08 -0600 From: Santiago Subject: IN> Zen If an angel Falls in the forest and no one is around to hear the Symphonic disturbance, does it still generate echoes? ;) - -- Santiago ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 10:37:25 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Celestial Forms Santiago wrote: > But, Ophanim look like wheels of fire, and Calabim look like nasty, > red-faced, bat-winged demons. Anyone else have a problem with that > last one? Yeah, I do. I once suggested that Ophanim should look more "electrical" and Calabim more "flame-like," but both should be systems of wheels. Another list member had an excellent idea: Calabim in their campaign look like black spirals -- spirals being broken wheels. > Okay, Seraphim look like six-eyed winged snakes, and > Balseraphs look like evil six-eyed winged snakes. Since *THE* *only* visual description of seraphim in the Bible clearly mentions their hands and feet, I prefer to describe them as looking like six-winged, six-eyed Chinese dragons, which are still pretty serpentine, but have all the limbs in the spec. > Kyriotates look like clouds of eyes, limbs, and whatnot, and Shedim > look like black clouds of mouths, organs, and whatnot. I feel that Kyriotates and Shedim look too much alike. I'd make Kyrios surreal, but not ghastly, and maybe add bits reflecting their Archangel's Word -- flowers and leaves, or flames, or crystals, or animal features, as appropriate. I once suggested that Shedim should look like a ragged black rip in the air, through which unpleasant bits of anatomy are visible, heavy on the glaring eyes and sharp teeth -- this an image of a demon swiped from a "Sandman" story, "Season of Mists," mentioned in the bibliography of the IN main book. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 07:52:09 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Stranger than fiction I've no idea. But I think that off-duty policeman who yanked an organ pipe out of the organ must be a good candidate for the Malakite of Eli attunement. jo >From: "Chris Bergstresser" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > > What do you figure -- Remnant of the Sword? > >-- Chris ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 10:19:53 -0600 From: "Dennis Groome V" Subject: Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! - -Dennis Groome V / "Amo Nympham" http://evm-gamers.freeservers.com ICQ: 11430261 "I think I woke up screaming, 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me." -Stabbing Westward, ACF - -----Original Message----- From: Jason Schneiderman To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Sunday, November 28, 1999 5:44 PM Subject: Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! > >*nod* Shame Georgia doesn't read this list. >Then again... since I've never actually seen one of the pieces in a game >store or on an IN player, i had both keychains (until they vanished on me), and several of my players have the keychains or pendants that they wear (most popular at Ofanim and Malakim because they have cool designs) IMaybe the idea that gamers will wear nicely-made icon jewelry >was a mistake; perhaps all we want is cheap, painted tin after all. which is funny because i can't turn my head without seeing a gamer with a White Wolf icon pin. (yes, even i have one, but mine was gift from an ex-g/f...a Giovani pin to be precise. so i guess that means in addition to my Sicillian heritage i must also be a dark, evil, back-biting, soul-stealing SOB...hmm...i wonder what i would have gotten if we were still together.) > >Jason Schneiderman, who briefly considered getting the Balseraph icon as a >tattoo. for some time I thought about having the Malakim sigil really big across my shoulders and back, having Calabim and Shedim on my chest on my pecs, the Ofanim wheel somewhere (thought about the back of a hand, but that didn't seem right) and the Balseraph sigil on a forearm.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 10:31:46 -0600 From: "Dennis Groome V" Subject: Re: IN> Stranger than fiction - -Dennis Groome V / "Amo Nympham" http://evm-gamers.freeservers.com ICQ: 11430261 "I think I woke up screaming, 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me." -Stabbing Westward, ACF - -----Original Message----- From: Chris Bergstresser To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Monday, November 29, 1999 9:35 AM Subject: Re: IN> Stranger than fiction > What do you figure -- Remnant of the Sword? nah, just a sick Kobal joke. what's more ironical than a sword wielding maniac in a Catholic church? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 12:10:08 -0500 From: Ben Aldred Subject: Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! >>Jason Schneiderman, who briefly considered getting the Balseraph icon as a >>tattoo. > > >for some time I thought about having the Malakim sigil really big across my >shoulders and back, having Calabim and Shedim on my chest on my pecs, the >Ofanim wheel somewhere (thought about the back of a hand, but that didn't >seem right) and the Balseraph sigil on a forearm.) > speaking of angelic tattoos and such I am planning on getting a pair of scar tattoos under my shoulder blades as if I had a pair of wings forcefully removed. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 10:12:52 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: IN> Weird Default. Does the -4 default on Languages really mean you can speak every language at a -4 default? Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 13:08:05 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> GMG, Superiors 1: Listen to your inner Mammon! At 17:59 -0500 11/26/99, Shadowstar wrote: >At 5:41 PM -0500 11/26/99, Kim Foster wrote: >>Ween were these releaed? > > When were these released you ask? Supposedly, according to SJGames, >this week. > >>I haven't seen either of them locally. > > Neither have I, but then again I haven't had a chance to check my local >gaming haunt yet. . . Our local gaming store had them out this past weekend, so any store that preordered them from the distributor should have had them. Of course, if they're selling unexpectedly well, then the preordered copies may have sold out already, and the stores would have to wait another week for their next shipment from the distributor.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 13:48:01 EST From: XLemorisX@aol.com Subject: IN> (no subject) any info you could send me on Lilith? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 13:49:05 -0500 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> Children of the Grigori (and other angels) EDG wrote: > > A question whose answer I don't remember: > > Assume an angel-human halfbreed. Assume that this half-breed, and all of > his or her descendants, have exactly one child, and that those children > were all sired by the half-breed (or descendant) and an (possibly > unknowing) angel. > > Would the "percentage" of angel in each successive generation be higher? > That is, after 5 generations, would the resulting child be 98.4% angelic? > > If so, what are the results of this? Nothing in particular in canon, though the potential forces of such a human would probably be quite high! - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 13:50:39 -0500 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> Mercurians and Shedim Meehan Anthony wrote: > > Mercurians gain dissonance for violence except when fighting demons. How > does this work in the case of Shedim (or anyone using the song of possession > for that matter). Are you being violent to a human or a demon? Dissonance or > no? Yes. Makes Disturbance, too. OMRtHS (One More Reason to Hate Shedim). - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 14:01:17 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Newbie [I should note here that I'm an occasional author of In Nomine material, and am married to the Line Editor, so I may be a bit biased; everything below is my own opinion, and not SJGames'.] At 19:47 -0500 11/27/99, Lachlan Smith wrote: >Howdy I am very new to In Nomine :) and have a few silly questions..aside >from of course the basic book, what sourcebooks do you need to play and/or >run a In Nomine game Need? Probably none -- the basic game is quite playable without supplements. And you may want to wait until you absorb the background material in the main book before adding more complexity. *Do* check the In Nomine website at http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine for the FAQ and errata -- there are some annoying minor problems in the main book and some of the earlier supplements. That said, there are a lot of supplements which vary from so-so to extremely useful. GM Screen: good adventure, plus a couple minor Superiors (who will eventually be reprinted in the Superiors book series). The screen itself is not entirely useful -- I'd have put a very different set of charts on it, myself. APG and IPG (Angelic/Infernal Players Guides): these are fairly useful, early on, especially if your players need more information on the mindsets of the Choirs and Bands. If you run an all-angels or all-demons game (which seems to be common, with angel games in the majority, it seems), you probably should get at least the book for the kind of PCs you've got. Includes a few expanded resonance tricks for most character types; your players will probably want access to these. (Note that the Line Editor has grumbled that some of the APG expanded resonances need to be toned down if the book is reprinted -- notably the Kyrio and Mercurian ones, if I remember right.) I think the IPG is better than the APG, but both are useful. CPG (Corporeal Player's Guide): also useful early on, especially if you have human PCs. Otherwise it's a bit more of a GM resource. I'd agree with the others who say the quality of this one is better than the APG and IPG. Some of the material in this book supercedes material originally published in the Revelations Cycle books. GMG (Game Master's Guide): I haven't read more than bits of it during playtest and editing, but what I've seen has looked very good. The timeline is a *very* useful resource, and the religion material I've seen was excellent. Liber... and You Are Here: all of these books are useful GM resources, but if I had to pick the most useful, I'd choose the Canticorum ("Songbook") -- players will probably want to have access to the vastly-expanded set of Songs that makes up much of this book. All of the books provide useful expansion of background on a particular aspect of the Symphony, including insight into how the various Superiors work and behave. If you have a Tether-centric campaign, then I'd recommend Castellorum ("Tetherbook") for its details on the inner workings of Tethers. The Servitorum ("Servantbook") has some useful expansion material on Roles and, naturally, Servants. Superiors #n: Like the GMG, I've only seen bits of the Superiors books during editing and playtest. They appear to be *very* good, in general, and I'd recommend getting the books for the Superiors most important to you campaigns; players will probably want at least the ones for their PC's Superior. I suspect that these will probably be among the most-used books in any campaign, ranking with the main book and the L.Canticorum. The material from the main book (and the "expanded writeups" in the Revelations Cycle books) is repeated, so everything about the Superior is in one place; there is also plenty of new material. These are intended to be, I think, the last word on the Superiors (at least for the present-day setting), so the books should have long-term value. Revelations Cycle I-V: I'm only lukewarm on these -- the best parts were the expanded Superior writeups, now being superceded by the Superiors series; the adventures are mostly so-so; and the additional rules material has already been reprinted (mostly in the CPG). The two city settings (Austin TX in Rev.I and Los Angeles in Rev.IV) are moderately interesting, along with their NPCs. You may want to pick up Rev.II (The Marches) and Rev.III (Heaven & Hell), since those include the only current treatments in any depth of the two other realms. I suspect both will someday be superceded, but not soon. Overall, other than II and III, I'd say it's not worth bothering with the Revelations books unless you find them at an attractive price in the discount bin at the game store. - ---Walter ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1433 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.