From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Nov 29 17:26:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA26582 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 1999 17:26:28 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id RAA07756 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 29 Nov 1999 17:21:38 -0600 Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 17:21:38 -0600 Message-Id: <199911292321.RAA07756@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1434 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, November 29 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1434 In this digest: Re: IN> (no subject) IN> Corporeal Player's Guide IN> Shedim question (fwd) Re: IN> Weird Default. Re: IN> Weird Default. IN> Re: mercurian dissonance. Re: IN> Weird Default. Re: IN> Weird Default. IN> M*s (Re: Newbie) IN> Band Jewelry ( Listen to your inner Mammon!) Re: IN> Weird Default. Re: IN> Weird Default. Re: IN> Character Generation Question Re: IN> Character Generation Question Re: IN> Re: mercurian dissonance. Re: IN> M*s (Re: Newbie) Re: IN> Corporeal Player's Guide Re: IN> Re: mercurian dissonance. Re: IN> Weird Default. Re: IN> Newbie Re: IN> Re: mercurian dissonance. IN> Search Engine Registration adv Re: IN> Newbie Re: IN> Children of the Grigori (and other angels) Re: IN> Mercurians and Shedim IN> She's like the Wind... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 14:00:28 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> (no subject) XLemorisX@aol.com wrote: > any info you could send me on Lilith? Over and above the stuff in the IN main book, see the following URLs: Some stuff by me in the In Nomine Collection at: http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/Theories/lilithorigin.html The original legend of Lilith as Adam's wife comes from a collection of tales called "The Alphabet of Ben Sira," and there is a copy at: http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~humm/Topics/Lilith/alphabet.html A discussion of the history of this story is at: http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~elsegal/Shokel/950206_Lilith.html A copy of the Rosetti poem "Eden Bower," about Lilith, is posted at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/2214/lil_poem.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 13:16:57 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Corporeal Player's Guide >>>For details... well, I posted a review of it a couple of months ago -- the archives are searchable, so plug in my name and "Corporeal Players Guide" and it should pop right out.<<< I remember the review. My impression was that you didn't read the CPG very carefully, since you said it simply reprinted a lot of material from the basic rulebook, Night Music and The Marches. This is not correct; it greatly revised and expanded upon the rules for Sorcerors, Soldiers, Undead, and Saints. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 14:24:20 -0500 (EST) From: Diane J Donaldson Subject: IN> Shedim question (fwd) Looks like this didn't get to the list the first time, so I'm trying again. - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- I'm sure this has been covered before, but the list archives are not the easiest thing to search. I can't quite decide, based on the IPG and the core book, if Shedim have to spend two essence each time they have to attain celestial form when leaving a human host. The core book says (p. 54) "If a celestial (usually a Kyriotate or Shedim) is occupying an earthly host, rather than a corporeal vessel, there is no Essence cost to leave the host..." Does that mean it just doesn't cost anything to leave, but you still have to pay for Celestial form? In other words, a Shedim making physical contact with a new host would not pay any essence, but a Shedim who wanted to possess someone at the other end of a crowded room would have to leave its host, pay 2 pts to go Celestial, and then enter the new host. Have I got that right? djd ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 12:39:23 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Weird Default. Well maybe celestials/ethereals can. It would seem more likely the body has to be programed with language than the celestial actually learns language (as once your out of the corporeal plane their is no way to produce the sounds and such). However for humans that should be a default for very simular languages or for a language the individual has been constantly exposed to but not formally learned yet. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 15:14:29 -0500 From: Ben Aldred Subject: Re: IN> Weird Default. At 10:12 AM 11/29/99 -0700, you wrote: >Does the -4 default on Languages really mean you can speak every language at >a -4 default? > assuming an average human has 5 forces 2 of which would be ethereal. Thus the average human intelligence would be 4. 4-4=0 thus it really takes an intervention for the person to understand an unknown language. makes some sense to me. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 14:16:05 CST From: "jonh smith" Subject: IN> Re: mercurian dissonance. >This particular Shed, therefore, was understandably quite reluctant to >leave his safe hidey-hole... and I ruled that just shoving the Merc to the >back of the party wasn't going to inoculate him from Dissonance in this >case, since he was a member of the party and expected to benefit from their >violence. The Symphony can't be fooled... I'm not convinced that the mercurian should have recived dissonance. I have always thought that mercurians were able to "stand back and let the malakim do their work" when no alternatives exist for dealing with a demonicaly possessed human. I could see disonance coming rather fast if he chose to not help the human after the critter has been chased out. But if there is a choice between allowing the human to meet his fate at the hands of a shedim, or being reincarnated after dieing from the angels, perhaps it is better to let the other angels rend him. Perhaps he should invest in the song of banishment. it could save him some trouble in this catagory. That is the solution for all you mercurian players out there! you get the demon clear of his vessel, and the soul stripping begins. no fuss with the human, and great for destrying a role. it looks like a heart attack hit a vesssel that has it's demon removed from it. then have it declared dead before it is repossessed. -onaxthiel, AKA roger oglethorpe. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 14:31:47 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> Weird Default. > At 10:12 AM 11/29/99 -0700, you wrote: > >Does the -4 default on Languages really mean you can speak every language at > >a -4 default? > > > assuming an average human has 5 forces 2 of which would be ethereal. Thus > the average human intelligence would be 4. 4-4=0 thus it really takes an > intervention for the person to understand an unknown language. makes some > sense to me. Yes, it makes some sense, but it also has some unnerving repurcussions. An average human has Native Tongue/3. This gives him a 7 in his own language. A genius human would have a 10 intelligence, which gives him a 6 in every human language. He just knows *all* of them. And if I take an angel and have a 12 intelligence, I know every human language at 8. That's above average mortal fluency! For no skill points. Seems a little fishy to me, but I can't find the -4 default erratad anywhere. > Ben Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 15:39:21 -0600 From: "Dennis Groome V" Subject: Re: IN> Weird Default. here's the way I use it: the roll at default is to see if you can possibly make out what someone is trying to say. it doesn't let you speak in that language, only try to grasp what is being said. - -Dennis Groome V / "Amo Nympham" http://evm-gamers.freeservers.com ICQ: 11430261 "I think I woke up screaming, 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me." -Stabbing Westward, ACF ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 16:49:03 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> M*s (Re: Newbie) At 11:34 PM -0500 11/27/99, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >At 6:23 PM -0700 11/27/99, EDG wrote: >>Not that I know of (and if there are, I /should/ know about them! :). I'd >>like to see if I can't get SymphonyMUSH back up, though. (Anyone who can >>help here, please talk to me privately.) > >Out of curiousity -- are there specific coding changes you require >for such a M**, or is it all a "style" thing? For instance, do you >require coding to allow for ascending to the Celestial Realm, or >coded d666's or the like, or are you just looking for the license to >not be misrepresented? That, probably other things which involve the complications involved in protecting copyright/trademark for not just the SJGames version, but INS/MV as well, etc. What's required is all at the URL that he mentioned, I believe: www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/ORClist.html - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 16:54:02 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Band Jewelry ( Listen to your inner Mammon!) At 4:27 PM -0600 11/28/99, Amo Nympham wrote: >well then consider this my official begging. but _before_ Superior jewelry >I'd like to see Demon jewelry. Not beg from _me_ -- dig around on the sjgames.com site and find an address to beg _there_ from. Probably sjgames@sjgames.com or something. (If you email to SJ himself, bothering the very very very busy Himself, then you will be hurting your cause more than helping.) Or, even better, figure out how much the stuff would cost and send them a check for the Band jewelry. O:> I have a horrible headache, and am in a very strange mood. Anything in this message should be thought upon carefully before you make any life- altering decisions based on it. Except the part about SJ. Don't bug him. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 16:54:22 -0500 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> Weird Default. Ben Glickler wrote: > > Does the -4 default on Languages really mean you can speak every language at > a -4 default? Not exactly. For example, the Driving skill has a default but the assumption is that you know what a car is and (basically) how to operate it... you just aren't very skilled or trained. Likewise the language default assumes some familiarity with the language in question. You've heard it before, probably taken a few courses or lived in the country, know a closely related language, etc. Not enough to be truly proficient, but enough that you can pick up some stuff and mumble a few phrases. To continue the analogy, someone using default with driving is probably a noticeably poor driver (forgets to signal, drives too slow or too fast, misses turnoffs, doesn't know what all the traffic signs mean, etc), but they can still get from point A to point B. - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 16:55:31 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Weird Default. Ben Glickler wrote: > And if I take an angel and have a 12 intelligence, I know every human > language at 8. That's above average mortal fluency! For no skill points. > > Seems a little fishy to me, but I can't find the -4 default erratad > anywhere. On the other hand, having angels ignore language barriers is very traditional in drama and literature. In my own variation, I explicitly say that celestials automatically understand any language or script due to their intimate connection with the Meaning Of It All. (Deliberate encryption or jargon about things unknown to the celestial remain opaque, though.) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 17:07:17 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Character Generation Question At 7:45 AM -0500 11/26/99, McGrygr@aol.com wrote: > We made a few characters, particularly outcasts, and were wondering how >much dissonance does the character receive? 0. > I know they receive a discord (type)/3, but if they have a dissonance of >0, then they would be able to ascend into heaven, no? They can, but they have to either follow someone up, or get to a Tether. And once up there, they're usually toting around Discord (pretty blatent) which means that if they aren't betaking themselves to their Archangel's Cathedral to beg forgiveness, the first Judgment-angel to hear about it is going to have a triad or two on the Outcast's metaphoric (usually) tail in short order. (C'mon, there are Malakim and Ofanim of Judgment up there who've never in their lives been able to bring in a Suspect, and are just itching to do so. Heck, there are _relievers_ who want to work for Judgment who would love to make their Very First Arrest Oh WOW!) Not to mention all the various Malakim up there who think nothing of idly resonating people (and Elohim, and Mercurians, and Seraphim...) -- it's their resonance, and hardly any different to an angel in Heaven than glancing at someone with one's eyes on Earth. And the first one who finds out, "You're an _Outcast_??" is going to do something about it. So you can go to Heaven, but you can't hide out there indefinitely unless you're _really_ clever about it. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 17:03:02 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Character Generation Question Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > So you can go to Heaven, but you can't hide out there indefinitely > unless you're _really_ clever about it. Hiding out in Heaven. Now *there's* an adventure hook. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 17:02:39 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Re: mercurian dissonance. >>This particular Shed, therefore, was understandably quite reluctant to >>leave his safe hidey-hole... and I ruled that just shoving the Merc to the >>back of the party wasn't going to inoculate him from Dissonance in this >>case, since he was a member of the party and expected to benefit from their >>violence. The Symphony can't be fooled... > >I'm not convinced that the mercurian should have recived dissonance. I have >always thought that mercurians were able to "stand back and let the malakim >do their work" when no alternatives exist for dealing with a demonicaly >possessed human. This is a delicate point, but IMC Mercs can get dinged with Dissonance for causing or participating in violence against humans even if they're not actually the one holding the club. I think we can all agree that if a Mercurian is in charge of a Malakite, and he says, "Mal, beat up this human for me," then the Merc will take dissonance... yes? Well, I take that a step further, and say that if a Merc is with someone who does violence against a human, and the Merc _wanted_ him to do the violence, *and* the Merc also _benefits_ in some fashion from the violence, *and* the Merc could have intervened but didn't, then the Merc takes dissonance. IMC this makes sure that Merc PCs will go that extra mile to find a non-violent solution if one is remotely possible. I don't think it's in character for the Friends of Man to be constantly stepping aside and folding their arms while their blackwing buddies carve humans into chutney; Mercs should really *want* to avoid violence against humans, and should accept it only as a last resort. A judgement call; there are lots of grey areas here. But it makes the players a bit more cautious about just shoving the Merc aside and charging in with flaming swords to carve the humans. The Merc resonance (as expanded in the APG) is pretty darn powerful if played well, so the Merc dissonance conditions should be interpreted fairly broadly IMO. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 15:06:52 -0700 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> M*s (Re: Newbie) At 04:49 PM 11/29/99 -0500, you wrote: >INS/MV as well, etc. What's required is all at the URL that he mentioned, >I believe: www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/ORClist.html Actually, that's just the list of ORCs (and sadly, I only know of one at the moment). The scoop on designing a licensed IN MU* is at www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/angelmush.html. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 17:14:39 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Corporeal Player's Guide >>>>For details... well, I posted a review of it a couple of months ago -- >>>>the archives are searchable, so plug in my name and "Corporeal Players >>>>Guide" and it should pop right out.<<< > >I remember the review. My impression was that you didn't read the CPG >very carefully, since you said it simply reprinted a lot of material >from the basic rulebook, Night Music and The Marches. This is not >correct; it greatly revised and expanded upon the rules for Sorcerors, >Soldiers, Undead, and Saints. Here's what I wrote: "Corporeal Players Guide -- Eh. This was OK, but too much of it just reprints and revises material already available elsewhere -- in _Night Music_, _The Marches_, and even the basic IN rulebook. Oh, it's not a ripoff -- there's some new material, and it's handy to have all this stuff in one cover -- but I didn't think it was quite worth the cover price. "I also felt that it lacked guidelines on *how* to run human characters in a standard IN campaign. The closest thing is a few short paragraphs, along the lines of "the following Songs are useful in keeping humans alive (list)... the following relics are also useful...". Not too inspiring. "Not recommended, unless you're a completist; you can get by just as well with _Night Music_ and _Marches_." Having recently had cause to review the CPG, I'll retract that last sentence -- it is an improvement over NM and Marches. But I stand by the rest of it. The CPG is not a ripoff, but it's the only IN product I've yet bought that left me feeling distinctly underwhelmed. As I've said elsewhere, Dave, I usually like your work -- heck, your name on the cover was one of the reasons I bought the CPG. And, as I've said elsewhere, you may have just had a near-impossible job, viz., making humans interesting in a game that's really not about them. So please don't take this personally. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 16:35:02 -0600 From: Shadowstar Subject: Re: IN> Re: mercurian dissonance. At 5:02 PM -0400 11/29/99, Douglas Muir wrote: [. . . much snippage of the Mecurian Debate. . .] Not to be rude or anything, but really. How many times do we have to debate this? (I know some people are getting sick of it by now.) When Diplomacy Fails, the Mecurian Steps Aside and let's his pal the Black Wing pound results into the stupid Monkey. Does this make it any clearer? >The Merc resonance (as expanded in the APG) is pretty darn powerful if >played well, so the Merc dissonance conditions should be interpreted >fairly broadly IMO. Except one little thing. The Expanded Mecurian Resonance (and the Kyriotate as well) are both on the LE's hunt down and kill it a lot list. Since the APG came out before there was a stable LE. Keep this in mind. (Now, I go off to beg Gabriel for her Ofanite attunement, because I know _someone_ is going to take this the _wrong_ way. Shame on them!) Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centurytel.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://home.centurytel.net/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 14:38:11 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Weird Default. Be fair, most games screw up the language rules, and IN has a fairly loose ruleset. If you wanted to make it more realistic, you could give different defaults for different language groups, depending on what the user was fluent in. Then something like -6 as the default default for a mortal language which was totally unrelated to anything you knew. Frex, if you were a fluent Latin speaker, that might give you a -3 default for Italian, -4 for English, and -6 for Chinese. jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 17:51:17 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Newbie At 11:47 AM +1100 11/28/99, Lachlan Smith wrote: >Howdy I am very new to In Nomine :) and have a few silly questions..aside >from of course the basic book, what sourcebooks do you need to play and/or >run a In Nomine game Well, as everyone else has said... The main book. Right after the main book, you, the GM, want to flip through the Game Master's Guide (which isn't just for GMs, despite the name, but GMs will probably get the most actual 'hold the pages down and scribble notes to myself' use out of it) and see if there's material in there which will help you with the game. (There is, really, but you have free will. O:> Decide for yourself.) Somewhere in here you want to check the FAQ. There are one or two wrong bits of data in it, however, which I am going to chase the FAQ maintainer around with an anime mallet about later. (The headache hasn't been smited by the acetominaphin yet; don't expect clear grammar.) After that, there's the APG and IPG. Yes, the IPG is better. I attribute this partly to the extensive going-over I did of the IPG shortly after I became Line Editor, and some Other Changes that I managed to institute. It also has way better art. The APG is on my list of first up against the wall for a second edition. With lots of sweet rewriting. (Unless the main book sells out first, in which case I get to bury my arms up to the elbows putting the main book into some kind of sensible organization.) (Oh, right, APG=Angelic Player's Guide. IPG is Infernal Player's Guide.) Then you go looking at the Liber Reliquarum (Book of Relics) and Liber Canticorum (LCant, Songbook, Book of Songs). Both have rules for making (relics)/discovering (Songs) new stuff, as well as great gory boocoos of new stuff -- _and_ the stuff from the main book (with revised errata) so you don't have to go page-flipping between books. Now that you've nearly forgotten about the little monkeys, check out the Corporeal Player's Guide. Even if you don't _have_ any human PCs, you can flesh out your NPCs a _lot_ with this puppy. (It reprints, with corrected errata, clarifications, and expansions, material from Night Music and The Marches -- and adds a whole _lot_ of new stuff. Sorcery, for instance, got an almost complete facelift.) If you're interested in the ethereal realm, check out _The Marches_ -- the material on sorcerers is superceded by the CPG, but there's other useful stuff there. For more details on Heaven and Hell, pick up _Heaven and Hell_. But check the errata; there's been some major changes here and there. (A lot of the demons have bad stats, for instance; that's more a minor change.) For more stuff about how Tethers form, what Seneschals do and what goodies they get, Tether-design, and a list of Tethers, check out the Liber Castellorum (aka. LCast). I hold a special place in my heart for Castell- orum, since it was the first book I edited personally. If you're in a bind for NPCs, want some ready-made PCs, or just want to look and see all the myriad of ways you can _interpret_ all those Word-Band/Choir interactions, check out Liber Servitorum. It also includes some nice guidelines on Roles, and a good section on servants (and the differences between a servant, a Servitor, and a mere minion). This was my second editing project and the first Book from Hell. (_You_ try coordinating 27 different contributors!) But I stopped hating it after it was published, because it really is a pretty cool book. O:> If you want more data on the Superiors than is found in the main book, and the expansions on Superiors found in the Revelations Cycle books, there's the ongoing Superiors Books project -- as has been mentioned, the first one (aka Superiors 1, Sup1, S1) is hitting stores now. That one has about 30 pages of not just expansion on the Superiors in question, but also stuff about their Servitors... Ahem, too many blurbs written too recently... The Superiors in Sup1 are: Michael, Laurence, Dominic, and David. Not in that order. The Superiors in Sup2 (playtest is OVER, muwhahahahaha!) are: Andre, Kobal, Haagenti, and Nybbas. (The playtest had over 1000 messages; I'm the editor. I'm a little gibbering on the subject just now, but I think it's a lovely book.) Superior books also contain adventure seeds to illustrate that interesting things _can_ be done with each Superior's Servitors. So the next time you're stumped, wondering, "Well, what can I do that will involve my Davidian PC?" you can look in the book and... *ahem* (Oh, and I far and away prefer the Superiors 1 cover to the GMG cover. I think the numbers on that are actually about evenly split, with the anti- GMG-cover people lying low because the artist for it was fishing for praise on one of the Pyramid boards... (www.sjgames.com/pyramid) And we're being too nice to say it's not our cup of tea.) For a whole book of Plot Seeds and Background, check out You Are Here -- non-Tether locations which you can use as color for a campaign, or the focus for a few adventures (or more). (Ignore some of the capitalization errors in it, though. New editor. Has been ... dealt with.) Then there's the rest of the Revelation Cycle. I take responsibility for none of the adventures -- they were decided upon before I got to be LE. That said, the one in Night Music is entertaining, but flip through it before you buy -- Laurence's expanded writeup is in Superiors 1, the Saints, undead, and Soldiers data has been tidied up ("dissonance" for "disturbance," indeed. Yeesh.), corrected, expanded upon, and generally made lots cooler in the CPG; also in the CPG are the repaired drug and poison rules. This pretty much leaves you with: In Nomine Austin, the adventure ("The Demon Prince of Rock and Roll"), Saminga's expanded writeup, Christopher and Fleurity (minor Superiors; AA of Children and DP of Drugs, respectively), and the Superiors will eventually be expanded upon elsewhere. Fall of the Malakim and The Final Trumpet are linked -- FotM's adventure is really a lead-in for FT. There are a lot of things I'd change about the FotM adventure, knowing what I know now, but I didn't. O:p It includes In Nomine Los Angeles, which may or may not interest you (there are some discussions about its plausibility), a cute little adventure called "The Premire," and the 'Fall of the Malakim' adventure itself. Well, one Malakite. Maybe. It's got expanded writeups on David, AA of Stone, and Lilith; the David one is, naturally, in Sup1 now... Final Trumpet has expanded writeups on Michael (now in Sup1), Kobal (Sup2), Baal, and Malphas. It also has one biiiiiiiiiiiig adventure which leads up to Armageddon. Maybe. If the PCs can't stop it. Depending on how the GM works it, PCs might like or hate it -- it really lends itself best to a game where the PCs don't mind mostly putting out local fires and occasionally having a Major Impact, IMO. The art in FT is really nice, though. Whatever you think of the rest of the book, the presentation tends to be excellent. My favorite of the Rev Cycle covers. Have I missed anything? Possibly. But I've rambled long enough... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 17:45:27 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Re: mercurian dissonance. >At 5:02 PM -0400 11/29/99, Douglas Muir wrote: >[. . . much snippage of the Mecurian Debate. . .] > > Not to be rude or anything, but really. How many times do we have to >debate this? (I know some people are getting sick of it by now.) Actually, we haven't done this one in a while. Months, at least. > When Diplomacy Fails, the Mecurian Steps Aside and let's his pal the >Black Wing pound results into the stupid Monkey. Does this make it any >clearer? I'm not disagreeing with this... it's just that sometimes a GM has to emphasize that first clause a little. Gotta try diplomacy first. And really _try_ it; you can't just say, "Do what I tell you, 'cause I'm an angel. No? Okay, violence time." Which some players _will_ try... >>The Merc resonance (as expanded in the APG) is pretty darn powerful if >>played well, so the Merc dissonance conditions should be interpreted >>fairly broadly IMO. > > Except one little thing. The Expanded Mecurian Resonance (and the >Kyriotate as well) are both on the LE's hunt down and kill it a lot list. >Since the APG came out before there was a stable LE. Keep this in mind. Shrug. It's in there now. It's canon. We GMs have to deal with it. It's not really an option to pick one thing out of the book and say, "Oh, they didn't really mean _that_." And, FWIW, let me say that I *like* the expanded resonance for Mercs, and wouldn't see it grossly changed. Yeah, it makes them more powerful. They were getting a little wussy; they needed an upgrade. Having a neat, flexible resonance *and* tricky dissonance conditions makes for interesting characters IMO. YMMV. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:50:20 +0800 (CST) From: mbender@youpy.com Subject: IN> Search Engine Registration adv I saw your listing on the internet. I work for a company that submits websites to search engines. We can submit your website to over 350 of the worlds best search engines and directories for a one time charge of only $39.95. If you would like to put your website in the fast lane and receive more traffic call me on our toll-free number listed below. All work is verified! Sincerely, Mike Davidson (888) 892-7537 * To be removed call: 888-800-6339 X1377 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 18:01:21 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Newbie At 2:01 PM -0500 11/29/99, Walter Milliken wrote: >[I should note here that I'm an occasional author of In Nomine material, >and am married to the Line Editor,[...] >(Note that the Line Editor has grumbled that some of the APG >expanded resonances need to be toned down if the book is reprinted -- notably >the Kyrio and Mercurian ones, if I remember right.) (The word, my love, is "Hunt Down And Kill, then Drag Back and Nail to the Wall." Letting Mercurians immitate Lilim, and all Kyriotates have the Kyriotate of Destiny attunement (in weaker form), is NOT my idea of letting each Choir and each set of Servitors have a unique feel. There are a few other aspects of the APG, too, that... Well, when the first edition sells out enough, we'll see what we can do. ) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 18:08:20 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Children of the Grigori (and other angels) At 1:49 AM -0700 11/28/99, EDG wrote: >A question whose answer I don't remember: > >Assume an angel-human halfbreed. Assume that this half-breed, and all of >his or her descendants, have exactly one child, and that those children >were all sired by the half-breed (or descendant) and an (possibly >unknowing) angel. > >Would the "percentage" of angel in each successive generation be higher? >That is, after 5 generations, would the resulting child be 98.4% angelic? Thing is, that with the possible exception of the Children of the Grigori, a cross-breed is either celestial, or mortal. If mortal, they _may_ have a chance of more Forces than normal, easier than normal. If the mortal "inbreeds" with other mortal, celestial-parented halfbreeds, the probability of extra Forces probably waxes and wanes ineffably according to what the GM thinks is right. (And the "celestial child" result may not be supported in canon currently either but something that came out of my fevered, headachey (will this painkiller _never_ cut in?) brain.) So no, you don't get "percentages" of "angelic." It's binary. And if you have a mortal child, then said mortal child is _NOT_ going to ever throw a non-mortal one by breeding with other celestial-"blooded" mortals. It's just too much annoyance otherwise. (If you want to play with weird genetics, go look at Sharon Shinn's _Archangel_ (the best), _Jovah's Angel_ (okay, even if it includes far too much Treknology), and _The Allajuia Files_ (ehhhhhhh).) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 18:20:12 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Mercurians and Shedim At 11:06 AM +0000 11/28/99, Meehan Anthony wrote: >Mercurians gain dissonance for violence except when fighting demons. How >does this work in the case of Shedim (or anyone using the song of possession >for that matter). Are you being violent to a human or a demon? Dissonance or >no? Dissonance. The human may be possessed, but the Symphony knows that you're hitting a human. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 18:18:24 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: IN> She's like the Wind... Herewith another attempt at an interesting and balanced starting-level character. You guys tell me if I've succeeded; feedback is very welcome... * * * * * The lawyer raced up the stairs of the rented beach house. A brisk wind was blowing whitecaps off the waves and throwing little skirls of sand across the deck. _She's going to be so excited_, he thought to himself. _I can't believe I've actually done it, but..._ He paused at the top of the stairs, catching his breath. _She was right. I was stagnating at the firm. Two hundred thousand a year, a corner office, and I was... dying inside. She was right._ He laughed out loud. "Gordon's face, when I told him I was resigning to do public interest work!" The door swung open at his touch. _She'll be so excited._ "Mary?" It was the longest moment of his life: the empty room, the closet door hanging open to show where her clothes had been pulled carelessly off the hangers. The place where her suitcase had been... "...Mary?" * * * * * "There's no time to lose, I heard her say Catch your dream before it slips away... "Goodbye, Ruby Tuesday Who could hang a name on you? When you change with every new day Still I'm gonna miss you." - -- The Rolling Stones * * * * Smoke swirled thick in the crowded nightclub. Outside in the alley, though, the winter air was crisp and clean, and stars twinkled frostily down from a clear November sky. A cold wind whipped old leaves and trash past the steps of the back exit. The young woman struck a chord on her guitar, then another. She had cut the tips off of her gloves; underneath, her fingers were calloused from years of playing. _Too damn cold for this_, she thought. _I'll have to tune it all over again before I start my set._ She shivered a little under her coat. _Chris loved this weather. Chris would run for hours in this cold._ Behind her the door swung open, letting out a gust of warm air and a sudden clatter of voices and music. "Lisa? On in five, hon. Hey, what are you doing out here anyway?" "Aww, it's too hot and smoky inside." She struck another chord, then three in quick succession, then suddenly flicked out a swift series of notes, bluegrass picking but in a strange minor key. The bouncer cocked his head, listening. "Hey. That's really good, Lisa. Is it new?" "...Yeah." "Everybody says you've been doing some great stuff lately. Since you got back from California, I mean. Did you take lessons or something?" "...Lessons. Yeah, you could say that." "Well. What do you call that?" _Driving Death Valley with Chris_. "Driving Death Valley." Something in her voice made the bouncer stare for a long moment. Then, "Well. On in three." She nodded, and he shut the door. Lisa sat very still, looking up from the alley at the distant, tiny stars. _It's true,_ she thought. _I am better. It's more... real for me, now. Is that what you meant, Chris? There at the end?_ The wind passed by, and said nothing. After a moment Lisa got up and went inside. * * * * * Love that which you will never see again. -- Breton Proverb * * * * * He looked at the gun in his hand. Had it really come to this? "I can't," he said, and then stopped. Can't what? On the table, his wife and children smiled up from the picture frame. "I can't forget you," he said. He realized that he was sobbing, but it all had come to seem very distant. Only the gun was real, cold and heavy in his hand. "I can't be what you wanted me to be." She had told him that it would all change. It had, but -- "I can't go on," he said, raising the gun. * * * * * Iola, Mercurian of the Wind 2 Corporeal Strength 3 Agility 5 3 Ethereal Intel 7 Precision 5 4 Celestial Perception 10 Will 6 Role (none) Vessel - 2 Charisma - +3 Acrobatics - 1 Climbing - 1 Detect Lies - 2 Emote - 3 Dodge - 1 Fast Talk - 2 Lying - 2 Running - 3 Seduction - 3 Dancing - 2 Songs Ethereal Form - 4 Corporeal Healing - 2 Ethereal Attraction - 3 Celestial Attraction - 2 Discord - Need (movement) - 3 Sometimes a broken heart can be a good thing. Iola travels from place to place, changing her appearance with the Song of Form; she has no fixed Role. Her self-assigned task is to jolt mortals out of their ruts and open them up to positive change. Her method is to become briefly, deeply, intensely involved with them, and then to disappear. Iola is the Lost Lover, the brief but incredibly intense affair that changes a life forever. She will arrive in a new place and start resonating with the local humans. Whenever possible, she'll focus her resonance to look for the things that will make a human _truly_ happy (that is, she rolls on the special Mercurian Resonance table on pg. 62 of the APG). If she finds something that would bring real, lasting happiness (a roll of 5 or 6 on this table), then she may start a relationship with the human in an attempt to turn him towards this thwarted desire. With 3 levels of Charisma, Seduction - 3, the Song of Attraction *and* her resonance working for her, few humans can resist when Iola comes whirling into their lives. It usually takes her just a few hours to completely enthrall her chosen subject. Iola's liaisons may last anywhere from a single night to a couple of months. As a Servitor of Wind, she has to keep moving, so she won't have a relationship for more than three days unless she can persuade the human to come away with her. More than one hapless mortal has found himself abruptly swept away on trips that go on for weeks -- a luxury cruise, or a cross-country hitchhiking expedition, or a series of jet-setting stops across the globe, or a protracted road trip in an ancient pickup truck. Iola uses this time together to repeatedly resonate the human and also pick his brains through more conventional means. She'll try to push her lover towards a better, more satisfying, more caring and constructive life, expressing the true desires that she can sense with her resonance. Her ultimate goal is to knock mortals out of their ruts; if her methods are sometimes a bit rough, well, she is serving the Wind. When it's time to go, Iola usually simply packs up and disappears, though she may arrange a set-piece parting scene if she thinks it will better serve her purposes. She may also abscond with wallets, cars, Swiss bank account passcodes, or other valuables! After all, this can be another way to knock humans out of their ruts; it may help some humans get over her faster; and, of course, ready cash can help her get along between relationships despite her lack of a Role. Not all of Iola's liaisons are sexual (although most of them are, since that's the best way to really get at a human in a hurry). Nor does she always take on a female role; the Song of Form can make her vessel male easily enough. And she doesn't discriminate at all as to who she gets involved with. All mortals need some sort of jolt, after all, and she's responding to needs and desires, not toage, gender, social status, looks, or any of the other cues that get us humans interested. Iola has appeared as a burly man in late middle age (to take a like-aged widow on an unexpected cruise, snapping her out of her depression and opening her up to an unexpected talent for travel writing), as a pre-adolescent girl (to spend one perfect afternoon sitting on a park bench, charming a lonely old man into caring about life again), and as everything in between. She's female more often than male, though, and tends to shape her vessel into something slender and rather athletic looking. Iola has had several signal successes -- jolting humans from despair back into life, or from selfishness into caring. She has also broken at least one human free from the malevolent influence of a demon. On the other hand, Iola has had some awful failures too. At least one human has killed himself over her... and since this violent act also harmed his family, it hit her with enough dissonance to cause a level of Discord on the spot. Several other humans have inflicted dissonance on her by lashing out violently against themselves or others as a direct result of her actions. Iola's tactics are really a bit too rough for a Mercurian, and she can't help but accumulate the occasional point of Dissonance... humans are unpredictable, and can easily turn violent when the object of their affections disappears. Since it's difficult for Servitors of Wind to work off Dissonance (mobile Tethers and a Superior who's quite hard to summon), Iola has accumulated three levels of the Need Discord. Iola's Discord manifests itself as a Need to put her body in vigorous motion for at least three hours per day -- usually running, dancing, or high-impact aerobic exercise, although rock-climbing, biking, or cross-country skiing will work too. Iola must do this in order to regenerate Essence. Since she has to burn Essence on Songs fairly regularly, this means she has to run or dance almost every day. She explains to her lovers that she's a professional dancer, or training for a marathon, or just very into fitness. Her Discord is fairly distinctive, and would make it much easier for an interested party to track her between appearances. Iola has made several attempts to invoke her Archangel, hoping to get her Discord reduced or removed, but without success. She's beginning to get a little bit worried. With 12 Body hits and no combat skills, Iola prefers to avoid combat; she's a lover, not a fighter. In a physical confrontation, she'll simply run (she can outrun most humans and celestials); if there's a crowd around, she'll dive into it, relying on her attunement to eel her way through it without being slowed. In a real pinch she'll go Celestial, as she's less vulnerable on this plane. Though not any kind of fighter, Iola would make a very good spy. Even by Mercurian standards, she's got a remarkably good understanding of humanity (at least in certain aspects). And there are a number of powerful humans who would do more or less anything for her if she showed up on their doorstep. Iola operates unsupervised, and has only occasional contact with other Servitors of the Wind. She hasn't been back to Heaven in some time now -- with so many unhappy mortals here on Earth, what's the point? She's very dedicated to her job, but this very dedication may lead her into real trouble if she keeps accumulating Discord... PCs encountering Iola may well mistake her for a demon -- a Lilim or Impudite of Lust, say. Even if they make her for an angel, her Discord may fool them into thinking they're dealing with an Ofanite. She'll be quite cautious around suspected celestials until they can prove themselves angels. Iola would make a very useful (if temporary) ally for a friendly party, and could quietly cause some serious trouble for a hostile one. Iola may be ready to switch to another Superior. She'd have to change her tactics if she wanted to work for Novalis or Gabriel, but her interest in improving human lives might just qualify her for a place with Yves... if someone could make the case for her. OTOH, demons might consider Iola an excellent candidate for Falling. And they might be right. She'd make a scary Impudite, whether for Valefor, Andre, or Kronos. Iola is a balanced starting character, ready for play. (Or I think she is, anyhow. Questions, comments, thoughts?) Doug M. . ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1434 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.