From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Nov 30 17:06:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA27862 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:06:33 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id RAA21228 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:03:36 -0600 Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:03:36 -0600 Message-Id: <199911302303.RAA21228@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1438 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, November 30 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1438 In this digest: Re: IN> Re: mercurian dissonance IN> Merc resonances Re: IN> Re: mercurian dissonance Re: IN> Mercurian resonance IN> Words, distinctions. Re: IN> Words, distinctions. Re: IN> The good ol' Humanity attunement Re: IN> Uh, hey. Re: IN> The good ol' Humanity attunement Re: IN> Weird Default. Re: IN> Shedim question (fwd) Re: IN> Mercurian resonance Re: IN> Children and Angels mating question. Re: Kyrio Resonance (was RE: IN> The good ol' Humanity attunement) Re: IN> Uh, hey. Re: IN> Malakim Re: IN> Uh, hey. Re: IN> Using Canon, Especially Bad Expanded Choir Resonances Re: IN> The good ol' Humanity attunement. Re: IN> Shedim question (fwd) Re: IN> Re: Mercurian dissonance IN> Enough with the Smarmy Nitpicking! IN> Nasty Malakite Trick Re: IN> Malakim Re: IN> Using Canon, Especially Bad Expanded Choir Resonances Re: IN> Re: mercurian dissonance IN> Cherubim Connections ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 14:25:53 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Re: mercurian dissonance At 20:21 -0500 11/29/99, Douglas Muir wrote: >>>>>I think we can all agree that if a Mercurian is in charge of a >>>>>Malakite, and he says, "Mal, beat up this human for me," then the Merc >>>>>will take dissonance... yes?<<< >> >>No. > >?! In fact, I'd agree with you -- if a Mercurian actually *ordered* someone else to do harm to another, then I'd call it dissonant. At least if they had the authority to make such an order. (Ordering someone you don't have authority over is iffier -- the "tool" has a lot more free will in that case. This is how I read Nichole's somewhat erratic behavior in the vignettes in the main book. Her new servant kills her old one, but it's not clear to me exactly how much under her authority he was at that point; whether he was actually a servant in the rules sense, then.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 14:31:31 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: IN> Merc resonances >I dunno -- the Mercurian of War attunement is arguably the most >powerful Servitor attunement in the main rulebook, since it works >automatically on any pair of characters the PC has ever met even in >passing. Well, but the two have to be in conflict somehow. Can't make peace unless there's some reason to... >Even better, it has a lot of drama to it and effective use of >it will tend to involve the whole party so there's no sense of guilt >inhibiting its use on the player level: > >"Abraham, you go get a reservation at Vinny's for Wednesday night. Raguel, >we need to get the two of them in the same car going down I-93 at 3:45 this >afternoon. I also need you to take this Corvette and crash into them when >you hit the exit near Pleasanton. Joseph, can you get me three jazz >guitarists and smuggle them into the hospital? Thanks. > >"I love it when a plan comes together..." Heh. I like it. This is a peculiarly Mercurian way to deal with things, yes. IMC they and the Impudites are both master manipulators of humans... and both can often be found at the center of some _very_ tangled webs. I have found it a bit harder to get PCs to come up with these fun, complicated plans, though. Mmm, so far I've had only one player who played a Merc really well... and an unfortunate accident killed that character relatively young. (OTOH, I finally found someone who _likes_ playing a Seraph, and does it _well_. The other players -- and their characters -- are perpetually torn between awe, respect, and wanting to shake him and scream. Very impressive...) Someone else mentioned Merc of Destiny. Yah, IMO this is the other "decent" Mercurian resonance... turns them into gypsy fortune tellers, but there's nothing wrong with that. For a while now, I've thought that Mals had the best attunements, and Mercs the worst. Here's a _purely subjective_ comparison of the two: Blandine: Mal -- eh, not great. Merc -- pretty weak. Eliminate the "close to each other" requirement and it's decent, though still too speciallized for general use. David: Mal -- very cool, and useful too. Merc -- decent, not great. Dominic Mal -- detect Dissonance, eh. Merc -- detect deviant behavior, can kill the guilty. Pretty powerful, kinda cool, and very dominican. Eli Mal -- anything is a weapon. Way, way cool. Merc -- can make talismans. Decent, but restrictions make this better for NPCs than for players. Gabriel Mal -- flaming hands. I've never liked this one, but some players seem to. Merc -- that's not an attunement, it's an additional Dissonance condition! Janus Mal -- demolition expert. OK, not great. Merc -- eel through crowds, pretty lame. Jean Mal -- so-so. Merc -- radioheads. Decent. Jordi Mal -- dogs and wolves. Decent... dogs are everywhere. One player insisted on calling this the "What's that, Lassie!?" attunement... Merc -- apes. Pretty lame. Laurence Mal -- decent. Merc -- quite good. Marc Mal -- quite good Merc -- OK Michael Mal -- Spider sense! Super handy. Merc -- quite good Novalis Mal -- you're Swamp Thing. Decent. Merc -- kinda feeble, as most humans have too low Perception to consistently benefit. And then there's the keep-the-War-secret issue... Yves Mal -- OK Merc -- Quite good, and sorta cool. H'm. Well, now that I've written it out... looks like the Mals do come out ahead, but not by as much as I thought. Thoughts? Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 14:25:53 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Re: mercurian dissonance At 20:21 -0500 11/29/99, Douglas Muir wrote: >>>>>I think we can all agree that if a Mercurian is in charge of a >>>>>Malakite, and he says, "Mal, beat up this human for me," then the Merc >>>>>will take dissonance... yes?<<< >> >>No. > >?! In fact, I'd agree with you -- if a Mercurian actually *ordered* someone else to do harm to another, then I'd call it dissonant. At least if they had the authority to make such an order. (Ordering someone you don't have authority over is iffier -- the "tool" has a lot more free will in that case. This is how I read Nichole's somewhat erratic behavior in the vignettes in the main book. Her new servant kills her old one, but it's not clear to me exactly how much under her authority he was at that point; whether he was actually a servant in the rules sense, then.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 13:38:12 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> Mercurian resonance > For some odd reason, my players loved the Mercurian of Destiny attunement. > Don't ask me why. Oddly, my best player instantly went for this one as well. > Mark Ben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 13:56:10 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: IN> Words, distinctions. In the past, I've made the mistake of allowing people to advance to quickly ("Can I have this?" "Er, um, sure."), and in trying to rectify that problem, I'm worried that I'm going too slowly. I know the guidelines in the books for obtaining Words and distinctions are purposefully vague, but I could really use some concrete examples and suggestions. Could someone provide a concrete example of the tasks necessary to obtain a distinction? What would qualify as a spectacular success/advancement of your boss's word? What are some examples of tasks that would qualify an angel for a higher-level distinction? Could someone also provide examples of what angels have done to obtain Words? What are some tasks that would qualify them? The angels I'm running include a charismatic (and unrepentantly militant) Mercurian of Destiny, a violent (and sometimes pissy) Malakite of Fire, a wild, enthusiastic, carefree (and competent) Ofanite of Fire, an often-badly played Malakite of Destiny who occasionally is cool, and a Cherub of the Sword. Thanks. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 15:29:32 -0600 From: Shadowstar Subject: Re: IN> Words, distinctions. At 1:56 PM -0700 11/30/99, Ben Glickler wrote: >In the past, I've made the mistake of allowing people to advance to quickly >("Can I have this?" "Er, um, sure."), and in trying to rectify that >problem, I'm worried that I'm going too slowly. It's not all about experience points. It's about having _fun_! >I know the guidelines in the books for obtaining Words and distinctions are >purposefully vague, but I could really use some concrete examples and >suggestions. Distinctions: ============ Generally, Angels are awarded their first rank Distinction when they're around 11-12 forces (10-11 for Demons, since they fledge sooner). Though there are always devations to the norm. Superiors usually award the distinctions when a Servitor performs their duties to their Superiors' Word with outstanding success. Usually on the completion of a grand mission. (I believe more detailed info about how distinctions are usually handed out is under 'Rewards', in the new Superiors-line of books.) Words: ===== A Servitor seeking a Word, must first prove to his Superior that he is capable of handeling the Word (though in the case of Demons, you don't always get what you want). Promote the Word, even before you have it. Then you pention your Superior, who then pentions Lucifer/Serphim Council to see if no-one else is seeking the word. Then through a series of trials and/or Lucifer giggling madly, you are tested to see if you are capable of handling the Word in question. (Somehow Druiel, from Night Music, got more than he bargained for when he sought the word of Teenage Death.) I believe the Forces requirements for a Distinction go true for Words as well. Again, there are those oddball examples who break the mold. . . Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centurytel.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://home.centurytel.net/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 16:36:35 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> The good ol' Humanity attunement At 0:33 -0500 11/30/99, David Edelstein wrote: >For example, suppose a Kyriotate tries to possess a demon with the >Humanity attunement turned on. The Kyrio devotes 5 Forces to taking over >the subject, "bounces" (assuming the demon doesn't make his Will roll), >and says "Gee, a Soldier or potential Soldier!" When he bounces after >using, say, 8 or 9 Forces to try to take possession, he's probably going >to suspect he's not dealing with a human. > >For that matter, since Shedim can't possess celestials period, they'll >have the same result when they try and fail to possess someone with >Humanity. Actually, I'd allow both of them to work -- either possesses a "5-Force" human; the Gamester winds up in the Marches in his dreamscape. (Humanity requires normal sleep, as I recall, among other things, and what else happens to the sleeping Gamester -- walking around the Marches as a normal celestial? Doesn't fit the description.) The Impudite of Tech should see 5 (or less) Essence -- the rest would be hidden away "behind" the Humanity facade. >I'm sure I can think of other examples. Humanity should foil all >information-gathering powers, but it can't foil any indirect means of >determining how much Essence or how many Forces someone is carrying, or >it becomes *enormously* powerful. It would be enormously powerful -- if it didn't also cripple many of the demon's abilities at the same time. They get to use attributes, attunements, and resonance, and that's about it. No Songs, no Essence recovery. I might even rule as GM that attributes way above human norm get knocked down somewhat, as the vessel is no longer being sustained directly by celestial energies, but is operating on corporeal rules. Here's what Elizabeth wrote explaining this attunement for GURPS IN: @2CL-BODY:This is a powerful ability, requiring the GM to make many judgment calls. For the most part, any supernatural abilities that might detect the demon's true nature will be imperceptibly diverted to reveal the nearest equivalent trait that a human could possess. A Malakite might detect that the demon is selfish, but only on a Divine Intervention would he get deeds of honor or dishonor that revealed infernal actions. A Lilim would pick up human-seeming Needs. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 16:48:49 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Uh, hey. At 22:21 -0500 11/29/99, Dan Weaver wrote: >Oh yeah, one (well, two) other things. I decided I liked a Malakim of >Stone best as a character, mostly for the solidarity, love & unity >street-punk thing thing they have going. So... >a) is it a complete rip-off to have a punk Malakim of Stone? It's a bit predictable, maybe, but not a rip-off. >b) are Malakim supposed to be totally bereft of humor and the ability to >have a good time when not in the presence of evil, or can they enjoy >themselves when they aren't hip-deep in demon guts? It's not common, and I suspect Malakite humor tends toward the bloody: Mal#1: "How many demons does it take to screw in a lightbulb?" Mal#2: "Dunno." Mal#1: "Neither do I -- they keep shorting out when I try to stick them in the socket." > I badly want to >have the following conversation before I mash something. > >Demon: Who ARE you? >Me: I'm BATMAN! A bit off-course for a Stony, I'd say -- Batman's too much of a loner. A Windy or Creation Malakite, *maybe*. Or a Fire one -- the lone vigilante matches their mindset quite well. Don't forget that Stone Servitors have this problem with hitting people first. This is likely to be rather annoying for a Malakite. Demons are prone to go "Nyah! Nyah! Can't touch me!" at them.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 16:56:03 -0500 From: Ben Aldred Subject: Re: IN> The good ol' Humanity attunement one thing I wish was that the humanity attunement could work on non-human vessels. It would be great to have say felinity and be able to pretend you were a normal cat. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 16:54:05 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Weird Default. At 23:27 -0500 11/29/99, Ben Aldred wrote: >At 04:55 PM 11/29/99 -0500, you wrote: >>On the other hand, having angels ignore language barriers is >>very traditional in drama and literature. In my own variation, >>I explicitly say that celestials automatically understand any >>language or script due to their intimate connection with the >>Meaning Of It All. (Deliberate encryption or jargon about >>things unknown to the celestial remain opaque, though.) > > I think it could easily make sense for all angels to speak any language >due to the connection to the symphony. demons however I don't quite know. >Also it might be intersting to think that perhaps all human tongues are >perversions of the celestial tongue and therefore gkeaning snippets could >be easily allowed. In some text on languages in GURPS In Nomine, I set it up such that anyone can understand the *celestial* angelic tongue -- it's so pure that the meaning gets through no matter what. But you can't normally speak that on Earth, unless you happen to be in celestial form. (And the person you're talking to can perceive you....) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 16:55:04 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Shedim question (fwd) At 23:40 -0500 11/29/99, Ben Aldred wrote: >At 06:51 PM 11/29/99 -0500, you wrote: > >>Kyriotates have to pay if they are manifesting one celestial form _and_ >>keeping hosts. If a Kyrio leaves all hosts at once, it's free. >> > in this case where does said kyriotate materialize assuming the hosts are >in different places. Same as when they manifest a celestial form -- I'd assume they could pick a location adjacent to any of their current hosts, just like they get to choose which host a Song manifests on. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:01:38 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Mercurian resonance At 11:26 -0500 11/30/99, MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 11/29/99 10:29:51 PM, douglas.muir@yale.edu writes: > >>Not talking "mini-maxing munchkins" here. Talking cool. Mal of Creation, >>Kyrio of Stone or Lightning, Ofanite of Fire, Cherubs of Lightning or >>War ... cool. The ones that *inspire* players. >> >For some odd reason, my players loved the Mercurian of Destiny attunement. >Don't ask me why. Most of the Destiny attunements/distinctions are pretty cool. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:08:00 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Children and Angels mating question. At 0:44 -0500 11/30/99, Ryan wrote: >This is an interesting question. I currently play a Child character who is >pregnant with twins by an angel (Tomas, Angel of Catchy Tunes, "Night >Music") I was going by the assumption that her daughters would be 75% angelic >Grim88 Nope -- they'll be either Children of the Grigori (since she is) or more "normal" humans. Or Nephallim (Tomas must have used the Song of Fruition for this to work at all). Even the "normal" humans are likely to be Soldier-potential, though, maybe even one of the rare humans with potential for 7 or more Forces before death. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:12:17 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: Kyrio Resonance (was RE: IN> The good ol' Humanity attunement) At 1:01 -0500 11/30/99, Leath Sheales wrote: >Here's something. I may have been playing Kyrios wrong all this time. Do >they actually have to declare how many forces they are devoting to a >particular possession? The way I've always played them is that the Kyrio >simply invokes his resonance on the target and, if successful, the required >number of forces are taken up. If the target is bigger than first thought, >the Kyrio feels the pull and is forced to give up control of other hosts >until he controls the new host. He doesn't actually realise how big the >thing is until he possesses it. > >Is that wrong, or is this an area of fuzzy rules? I think it's fuzzy -- I play it the other way, myself; the Kyrio has to declare how many Forces he wants to use, and fails if he didn't use enough. He can retry with more immediately, though, since it isn't actually a failure with his resonance. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:16:56 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Uh, hey. At 1:31 -0500 11/30/99, Santiago wrote: > That's what the world needs, more Malakites who know how to >have fun, how to slay and murder with style and wit, how to take it >in stride when two servitors of dark humor break into your garage and >spray paint your red Ferrari Testarossa a nice shade of blue... Actually, they'll probably stop with painting sloppy blue flowers all over it, like a VW bus out of the 1960s.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:19:12 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Malakim At 1:31 -0500 11/30/99, Santiago wrote: > > >>Tip: never, ever fight one of these bad boys in a supermarket. Unless you >>want to report back to your Prince that your vessel was destroyed by an >>angel wielding a deadly bag of potato chips. > > I dunno...if you report back to Kobal with that story, he'd >probably give you a new vessel for it, and then go give the Malakite >an attunement, whether he wants it or not... Naw, he only does that if the Malakite manages to kill the demon with a bowl of Cool Whip/6. Or maybe a very dangerous strawberry.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:44:12 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Uh, hey. At 10:21 PM -0500 11/29/99, Dan Weaver wrote: >I know there's a lot of online IN play. Are there >any online games that accept new characters played by new players, or >are they all closed off? Unfortunately the ones I know about personally are full up. Which doesn't prevent _more_ from arising, of course. >a) is it a complete rip-off to have a punk Malakim of Stone? "Malakite" -- Malakim is the plural. Depends on how you play him (or her) -- if you try to say, "Well, [character X the Malakite is based on] could do it, so I should have 15 extra points to get a decent skill! And Strength 12!" then the GM is fully justified in telling you to make your _own_ character... O:> >b) are Malakim supposed to be totally bereft of humor and the ability to >have a good time when not in the presence of evil, or can they enjoy >themselves when they aren't hip-deep in demon guts? Heck, they can amuse themselves _when_ hip deep in demon guts -- do you know all the funny balloon animals you can make... *Ahem* Malakim can have a sense of humor, but it's usually a bit quirky, dark, and there's always a sense of _something_ in the back of their personalities that won't "lighten up" until the day every demon is dead. (For Malakite personalities, Fiat Justitia is quite good at showing some of the range -- the intense Fire Malakite, the somewhat differently intense Creation Malakite, the quite entertaining Faber (who also shows up in fiction, at www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/fiction.html)... Then there's that weirdo NPC Danny, in my In Nomine IOU thing, who somehow developed a quirky personality when he commented, of Balseraphs who bit, "I bite back.") (For the In Nomine IOU thing: http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~emccoy/IOU/myINIOU.html .) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:44:01 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Using Canon, Especially Bad Expanded Choir Resonances At 10:08 PM -0400 11/29/99, Douglas Muir wrote: >No, no. Most angels have nonviolent resonances. But the Merc resonance, >without the APG expansion, was no better than the Elohite or Malakite >resonances, and maybe not quite as good. You're kidding me... With decent check digits, the Merc resonance is VILE to GM for... (What did I know, I was GMing a Judgmenter Mercurian, who gets _additional_ information! I learned fast.) Here's some samples: <> Jude rolls the d666 and gets 1 2 CHECK: 4. <> arcangel says "Randy thinks that he's uncertain about his status to everyone here, except the Campus Security person, who outranks him. The Campus Security person does out-rank him, and is somewhat dubious about Randy. Randy is usually called Randy, but his grandmother calls him Randall Junior. He comes from Worchester, Mass. He's a lapsed Catholic, technically, with generic American as his culture. He likes building mechanical equipment and drawing buildings. He collects Playboy collectable cards. He is close to his father, but the rest of his family won't get phone calls while he's at college. He admires his father." <> arcangel checks for Judgment attunement... <> arcangel says "Randy's most deviant behavior was lying about his age by one year to buy a bottle of whisky, and he did that about three hours ago." <> Jude rolls the d666 and gets 6 2 CHECK: 5. <> arcangel says "Ms. deSota, the waiflike young woman, thinks that she's hunted, but vaguely trusts the security guy. The Campus Security person is mildly protective of the girl. Most people call the girl Aimee, her geographic origin is Austin, Texas, her major items of interest are fencing, karate and shooting things with guns. She has no major relationships, and thinks that's good." <> arcangel adds, "And Aimee's worst thing was to walk away from her... father? Disappointed him. Is disowned. She did it about a year ago." <> Jude rolls the d666 and gets 6 3 CHECK: 2. <> arcangel says "This person thinks that he's... apart from people, distant. Other people regard him as 'just some guy.' The worst thing he's done is... run away from somewhere." <> Jude rolls the d666 and gets 2 6 CHECK: 3. <> arcangel ponders the wisdom of the Mercurian CD table. <> Hamilton says "Let's see... Blaine considers herself an equal, but somewhat apart, from the rest of the class. Most people call her Blaine. She's from a boonies area of Maine. Major items of interest -- Law, people in general, and sorcery. Her most deviant behaviour was to try to summon her mother's soul, which didn't work." <> Hamilton says "Um. I dunno what others around her would think of her. Beth?" <> arcangel says "Those around her think she's 'just another student,' mostly. Leo thinks she's important." <> Jude rolls the d666 and gets 1 2 CHECK: 2. <> Tarot says "Tarot's estimation of herself is one of reasonable competence, if not of *high* power, and of reasonable common sense. She regards herself as definitely more oriented than Jude and more experienced." Jude_Wallace tries to get a TEENY bit more information. <> Jude rolls the d666 and gets 1 3 CHECK: 6. <> arcangel faints. <> Jude says "Happier? Does that satisfy the GM?" <> Tarot says "Most people who know Tarot call her "Tarot". She's interested in sorcery, Symphonic and extra-Symphonic power manipulation, the welfare of her friends, literature, tattoos, and research." <> Jude says "Dude, everywhere is riddled with sorcerers." <> Tarot says "She has a few close friends, none nearby, one person called Desdinova whom she's sworn in service to, the ArchDean who she works for, no living family." <> Tarot says "She would quite literally risk her life for someone who she feels responsible for or cares about." <> Tarot says "She's from a place called Elsthan, but apparently she left it at least 30 years ago and hasn't been back since. She's of mixed blood." <> Tarot says "Her most deviant behaviour lately was to cause widespread havoc in a brothel by phoning up a local Internal Security organisation and giving the impression that there were traitors present." <> Tarot says "That's probably it, unless you can think of any major areas I've left off?" <> Jude says "Erm, nope. Sorcerer, check. In league with a demon named Desdinova, check. From some weird principality or marches realm called Elshthan. Check. Lives a long time. Check." Now, tell me that the Mercurian resonance is "wimpy." (For more examples, the logs are at http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~emccoy/IOU/myINIOU.html .) >And their dissonance conditions are tougher than the Elohim's. No, they're not. They're easy. Don't damage humans. Hit the wall, hit demons, throw crockery. (Well, the first and third, don't get into a habit of it or the triads will wonder if you're about to snap and hit humans.) >Elohites can do this too. (Elohim.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:12:47 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> The good ol' Humanity attunement. At 1:35 PM +1100 11/30/99, Leath Sheales wrote: >I'm thinking about the Humanity attunement again, and I know that it's >supposed to be subtle and powerful (heck, it can even fool the Resonance of >the Malakim), but I'm undecided as to whether it's effective against >Impudites of Technology. Ooo, good question. I'd fuzz it, myself, down to 6 Essence. Maybe 5. (Why? Because it says that only Azzie and Lucifer can tell when someone's using it. With absolutes like that, it would really mess with the intent of it to let every stray Vapulan Taker be able to point them out.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:49:17 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Shedim question (fwd) At 11:40 PM -0500 11/29/99, Ben Aldred wrote: >At 06:51 PM 11/29/99 -0500, you wrote: > >>Kyriotates have to pay if they are manifesting one celestial form _and_ >>keeping hosts. If a Kyrio leaves all hosts at once, it's free. >> > in this case where does said kyriotate materialize assuming the hosts are >in different places. In one place, chosen by the Kyrio's player, next to one of the hosts. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:39:57 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Re: Mercurian dissonance At 3:21 -0500 11/30/99, Douglas Muir wrote: >H'm. That raises some interesting questions, actually. If we take away a >Merc's free will... > >1) Merc is geased into hurting someone; he fails his Will roll and can't >resist the geas. Dissonant? (I say yes) Dissonant either way, actually; most sane angels would take the dissonance from the Geas (and probably pound the Lilim into the bargain...), and get their Superior to remove it later. Note that in the expanded writeup on Geases, it takes a fairly hefty Geas to make someone do something dissonant. >2) Merc is a Servant of a more powerful angel... not a Servitor, a >Servant, Will-bound. He's instructed to hurt someone and fails his Will >roll. Dissonant? (I say yes, though it's a bit fuzzier than #1 IMO). I'd say yes -- it's still against his nature; he should have blown all his Essence on his Will roll. (If he had no Essence, well, he should have saved it up, shouldn't he...?) I'd give a strong bonus to Will on an order like this, too. >3) Merc is under the influence of a Balseraph, who has convinced him that >he's attacking a _demon_, not a human. (I say dissonance, and the pain of >it should snap the Merc free of the Lie, thereby inflicting dissonance on >the Bal, too) I'd say he'd take the dissonance afterward, when he realizes what happened. (This might be after he heard the disturbance from damaging the human, which will directly contradict the Bal's lie.) >4) Merc is taken over by the Song of Possession (I say no Dissonance... >otherwise this would make Mercs, and everyone else, way too vulnerable to >this Song, which is powerful enough already). Nope. *He*'s not doing it; the possessor is. In general, I'd say you *can* be forced into dissonant actions, as long as you have an option. (Having to make a roll *is* an option, even if you might fail it; especially if you can spend Essence.) Another nasty case: a superior in the chain of command orders a Mercurian of the Sword to attack a human (possibly mistakenly thinking the human is a demon). The Mercurian takes dissonance either way. If he *knows* the target is a human, he'll take the dissonance for not following orders, rather than attack. In the other case, he'll probably assume his officer knows what he's doing, and get whacked with dissonance after he hits the human. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 16:33:59 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Enough with the Smarmy Nitpicking! >>> "Where's your Nitpicking Rite? Huh? Well? I'm waiting. . ." };;;><<< OK, this whole "Demon Princess of Nitpicking" schtick was mildly amusing at first, and if Elizabeth wants to keep playing that game, it's her choice. But it is, IMO, getting out of hand, annoying, no longer funny, and worse, being wielded like a club. I don't give a frack who has "officially" been given Nitpicking Rites, but jumping on a newbie with a frivolous nitpick that wasn't even In Nomine-related is smarmy and obnoxious, not humorous or helpful. I'm as fond of proper grammar, precise communication, and the correct pluralization of "Calabite" as the next English teacher and freelance In Nomine writer/editor, but it really ISN'T necessary to pompously jump down the throat of every person who types "Cherubs," much less deconstruct every line of their posts. I can't prevent anyone from continuing to do this, but I assure you, I can match you snide & smarmy correction for snide & smarmy correction and make sure you don't have any more fun doing it. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 16:39:44 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Nasty Malakite Trick >>>Remember, unless a celestial has the chance to really examine an artifact, the artifact is undetected as being such.<<< Not quite true. You have to specificially check out an object, or handle it, to get a Perception roll, but anyone who says "I look at the backpack to see if it's an artifact" should get a chance to detect it. >>>As an alternative, I use an optional feature, "Masked Artifact", which works like a Role purchased for the artifact, in effect, hiding it from celestial treasure hunters.<<< Hard to Detect: +1 per -2 to the Perception roll. Or +5 to make it undetectable as an artifact on the corporeal plane. Per the Liber Reliquarum. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 16:51:51 -0600 (CST) From: paranial@creighton.edu Subject: Re: IN> Malakim On Tue, 30 Nov 1999, Walter Milliken wrote: > At 1:31 -0500 11/30/99, Santiago wrote: > > > > > >>Tip: never, ever fight one of these bad boys in a supermarket. Unless you > >>want to report back to your Prince that your vessel was destroyed by an > >>angel wielding a deadly bag of potato chips. > > > > I dunno...if you report back to Kobal with that story, he'd > >probably give you a new vessel for it, and then go give the Malakite > >an attunement, whether he wants it or not... > > Naw, he only does that if the Malakite manages to kill the demon with a > bowl of Cool Whip/6. Or maybe a very dangerous strawberry.... > > > ---Walter > ROTFLMAO, what's next. The assorted ways a Malakite of Eli, can kill a demon, at a Discovery Zone. Bradley Paranial, Mercurian Vassal of War. Who takes care of his own Demon slaying thank you very much. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:51:02 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Using Canon, Especially Bad Expanded Choir Resonances At 8:06 PM -0600 11/29/99, David Edelstein wrote: >>>>Shrug. It's in there now. It's canon. We GMs have to deal with it. It's not really an option to pick one thing out of the book and say, "Oh, they didn't really mean _that_."<<< > >Uh, yes...it is. We GMs are free to ignore ANYTHING we don't like. And >in fact are encouraged to do so. Yah. Yah. Yah. (What I tell you three times is True.) (I _try_ to mention, "Do what you want in your own campaign"... (But when there are great gory arguments about what _is_ canon... Well, then.) If you (you-anybody, you-plural) want to discuss how _you_ do stuff that's uncanon, feel free. Just note that you know it's not canon so I won't be confused. I sometimes confuse easy. (150 messages since _Monday_? AUGH.) >I would especially encourage GMs to >ignore canon that everyone from the Line Editor to the person who >through an ironic quirk of fate ended up *writing* expanded Choir >resonances he didn't like (yes, that would be me, re: the Cherub tricks) >says is broken and should be revised in the 2nd edition. Right. Exactly. To a large extent, I haven't made all the errata changes I want to make to the APG because there's so much of it, I might as well wait to get the thing rewritten and then _playtested_. I have a couple of replacement Kyrio tables sitting on my laptop for the ones I hate. I don't have a replacement for the Mercurian ones. I'd _like_ to trash the CD tables altogether (come on, how many of you have learned to loathe check digit tables after flipping around through the basic Choir ones?), or at least many/most of them, and come up with new mechanics, but the realities of the situation have dictated that I can't grab authors and make them do that. Yet. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:51:04 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: mercurian dissonance At 9:21 PM -0400 11/29/99, Douglas Muir wrote: >>>>>I think we can all agree that if a Mercurian is in charge of a >>>>>Malakite, and he says, "Mal, beat up this human for me," then the Merc >>>>>will take dissonance... yes?<<< >> >>No. > >?! > >I don't even see this as being outside canon. More of an obvious gloss on >canon. It's canon. Cope with it. "Step aside and WAVE IN the sharp knives of the Malakim." And, to quote, "This doesn't mean they don't advocate violance; they just don't indulge in it themselves." They can advocate violance to their little heart's content. They can order other Choirs into the fray. They just can't bring _themselves_ to bash one of those wonderful, muddled, complex, glorious creations of God: Humans. >No dissonance? Other Choirs have different dissonance conditions. A Cherub cannot _betray_ their charge -- and if you can find a place where a Cherub is _not_ betraying his attuned by asking someone else to kill said charge... (I could see this, actually; "Joiel, my charge is an angel who may be on the verge of Falling, or kidnapped by demons. If this looks like it's about to happen... Kill my attuned's vessel. I don't think I'd be able to, in a crisis like that." He'd still eat the dissonance for the vessel-killing, most likely, but not for requesting that someone _perform_ it, as he likely would otherwise.) >This seems to me to be _mis_reading canon. Way too narrowly. What am I >missing here? That Mercurians are NOT Servitors of Flowers. They are distinct, and should be kept that way. (For me, MUST be kept that way, or I'll get chewed out by my superiors...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 15:02:02 PST From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> Cherubim Connections When someone asked why the Cherub who left his attuned in charge of a Malakite with a short attention span did not notice the attuned being attacked by a demon, the originator of the story said the demon used the Celestial Song of Shields. I have a problem with this, to wit: the Song of Shields blocks disturbance in the Symphony. Therefore, it would prevent any celestial noticing the disturbance when a human was being attacked and killed. This would include the Cherub. BUT the connection between a Cherub and his attuned has nothing to do with disturbance in the Symphony. Cherubim know when their attuned is in DANGER, whether or not the Symphony has being disturbed (yet) by that danger. They're aware of demons or other malefactors stalking or watching their attuned (with a good enough die roll, with the expanded attunement). Stalkers or spies do not cause disturbance until they actually do something. They're also aware of *potential* danger before it happens. (Remember awhile back when I described the Soldier who held a gun on my Malakite PC in a case of mistaken identity? The Malakite wasn't planning to injure the Soldier unless she tried to shoot him, at which time he would take it away from her by force. The Cherub attuned to the Soldier still got danger readings from the Soldier from across town although nothing actually happened to the Soldier. The consensus on this list seemed to be that this was correct, although I was skeptical myself ...) I would think the connection is not vulnerable to the Song of Shields or anything short of major intervention by a Superior or perhaps a specific artifact for that purpose. Janet Anderson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1438 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.