From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Dec 1 14:01:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA28759 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 14:01:58 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id NAA00678 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 13:56:19 -0600 Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 13:56:19 -0600 Message-Id: <199912011956.NAA00678@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1440 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, December 1 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1440 In this digest: Re: IN> How do demons figure these things out? Re: IN> She's like the Wind... RE: IN> How do demons figure these things out? IN> Words, Distinctions IN> Divine Religions Re: IN> Humanity Attunement in the Celestial Realms IN> The Humanity attunement RE: IN> How do demons figure these things out? Re: IN> Words, Distinctions Re: IN> She's like the Wind... Re: IN> Using Canon, Especially Bad Expanded Choir Resonances Re: IN> Mercurians and Shedim Re: IN> Merc resonances Re: IN> Re: mercurian dissonance Re: IN> Enough with the Smarmy Nitpicking! IN> Vessels IN> Your Gifting Invitation Re: IN> Vessels Re: IN> Laurence's Fight Song! Re: IN> Merc resonances IN> Cherubim Dissonance (WAS: mercurian dissonance) RE: IN> The good ol' Humanity attunement Re: IN> Mercurians and Shedim Re: IN> Merc resonances Re: IN> Vessels Re: IN> Words, distinctions. Angelic Resonance (was Re: IN> Using Canon, Especially Bad Expanded Choir Resonances) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 22:42:08 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> How do demons figure these things out? >In other words, are there ways for demons to get useful information about >angelic weaknesses, such as Cherub attunements, or just information about >what choir they are facing? Oh sure. Demons have some infernal equivalent to ROTC, where all this is spelled out in some detail. All demons know the major choirs and their resonances, and most of the ones who come Upstairs to Earth are conversant with the most common attunements. It is, after all, a matter of life and death for them. And they'd get familiar with the various Superiors, too. [Angels glare at demons, brandish weapons, but don't attack] Newbie demon: "Yah! Angels! Run... or attack!" Experienced demon: "Wait a sec. I think these guys might be Servitors of David, Archangel of Stone. That means they _can't_ attack us first." Very experienced demon: "Stoners!" (smiles broadly) "Hey, angels. How many Cherubs of Stone does it take to change a light bulb?" (snickers) [Angels outnumber demons, but talk to them instead of attacking. Redemption is mentioned] Newbie Calabite: "I don't get it! They could kill us any time! What is this? Experienced Balseraph: "I... I think these are angels of Flowers. They *can't* kill us, unless they've tried talking to us first." Calabite: "You mean --" Bal: "Trust me." Of course, knowing these things doesn't prevent demons from miscalculating. Bal: (Lying) "Well, of course my friend and I have considered Redemption. In fact, I was just saying to Zlargh here the other day --" Seraph of Flowers: "He's lying." Malakite of Flowers: "Through his teeth." Cherub of Flowers: (draws flaming sword) "Okay, worth a try --" >(Come to think of it, a knowledge of the oaths of specific, identificable >Malakim would make a fallen Servitor really valuable to Hell. Picture a >Servitor who worked closely with a lot of Malakim -- a Seraph or a Cherub of >Laurence or Michael -- who fell, and the amount of trouble he could cause.) Oh yes. Good point. Note that it's canon that Heaven and Hell both keep files on individual angels and demons (Central Records, in _You Are Here_). Seraph: "We have to rescue our human Soldier, who has been kidnapped and taken into the Tether of Lust across town!" Ofanite: "Just a sec, boss." (goes celestial, ascends to Heaven, zooms to his Archangel to get his permission, zooms to a servant of Dominic to get his OK too, zooms to Central Records, takes some notes, descends, assumes human form again) Ofanite: "Okay. According to Central, as of last Tuesday the Seneschal there was still the demon Vlotox. Vlotox is a Djinn Captain of Lust who is known to have the following Songs and Attunements..." It doesn't *always* work like this, but it can. It's harder for demons -- they don't share information as readily, and the Archives are MUCH less organized -- but they can do this sort of thing too. Balseraph: "So! It's Lucilian, Servitor of the Sword! Social call?" Malakite: (raising sword, stepping forward) "Prepare to die, demon scum!" Balseraph: "Not so fast, blackwing! Or haven't you noticed... not only am I unarmed... but I am _seated in a chair_?" Malakite: (stops dead, makes choking sound) Of course, if this gets to the point where a useful Servitor is becoming incapacitated, his Archangel can always change his oaths. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:51:28 CST From: "Wade Hursman" Subject: Re: IN> She's like the Wind... I don't know whether to say Ow or Wow. That's a great character! I'm not sure if she's balanced enough for a first time player, but for an experienced player, she'd pose a real challenge! And she'd make a GREAT NPC. I can think of ways to use her even now! Wade Habbalite of Technology, Demon of Telemarketers ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 15:03:51 +1100 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: RE: IN> How do demons figure these things out? Douglas wrote: > Note that it's canon that Heaven and Hell both keep files on individual > angels and demons (Central Records, in _You Are Here_). > Don't forget that time in the celestial doesn't necessarily correspond with the corporeal. So the ofanite can zoom to Heaven, zoom back and bbe confronted with "Where the hell were you? We hit the tether 3 days ago, *and* the Cherub was killed. Michael's going to have your head." > Of course, if this gets to the point where a useful Servitor is becoming > incapacitated, his Archangel can always change his oaths. If confronted with such a Balseraph, all the Malakim I've dealt with would swallow the Dissonance and kill the demon. Later they'd talk to their boss: AA David: "You have dissonance." Mal of Stone: "Well, it's like this, the Balseraph didn't hit first, he simply goaded me into action. Plus he was sitting down, but he was waiting for a chance to kill the mortal child, and my resonance told me that he had killed the Cherub." AA David: "Understood, I'll remove the disonance but try not to let it happen in future." Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:53:48 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Words, Distinctions >>>Well, IMC I tend to give out 1-2 character points per hour of play. So, an average evening of play -- dinnertime to 11-12 -- typically generates 5-10 points. I suspect this is a bit high<<< A bit? In the GMG, I recommend awarding 1-4 points per session, with 1-2 points being average. At the rate you suggest, any campaign with regular (weekly) games will have PCs who are vying for Superior status within a year! >>>3rd level -- Think I've only given out three or four of these, ever.<<< "ONLY"? - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:58:07 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Divine Religions >>>Some religions (numerous african tribals ones especially) believe in a divine force outside of this reality. [...] Do these religions count as divine religions? Are the intermediate spirits angels? Or are some of them ethereals who do believe in and worship God and serve as intermediates for the tribe in question?<<< Both. Some religions (notably Hinduism, Voudon, and the Australian aboriginal religions) are known to be both divine (in that they support divine Words and Tethers) and pagan (in that they support pagan gods and ethereal Tethers) at the same time. Dominic, of course, doesn't like them much, but can't really condemn the religions themselves, though he does encourage squashing all ethereal connections. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 22:40:01 -0600 From: Shadowstar Subject: Re: IN> Humanity Attunement in the Celestial Realms At 8:42 PM -0600 11/30/99, Benjamin Acosta wrote: >Is the Humanity Attunement limited only to the Corporeal Realm or could a >Gamester use it to pose as a Damned Soul? If the later is possible, you >could run some interesting undercover sting operations in Hell. I don't think so. . . At least, not by 'CANON' ruling, but it would be something nifty keen you could run in your own campaign. Some times it is the ideas that go counter to 'CANON' that the most inspired, fun to play with, and throw your players for a loop. EX: The PC's, a group of Angels from various Superiors, find themselves in a deserted Library. Suddenly! There upon the floor they find the bloodied body of Yves. He's been run through with a sword! Wait. . . That's. . . Laurence's sword!!! *cue sinister music* >Ben, Elohite of Eli >Angel of Neat Ideas (I think you just got a point of Essence, good work!) Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centurytel.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://home.centurytel.net/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 22:24:40 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> The Humanity attunement NOTE FOR ELIZABETH: Consider this an official request for canon clarification. As pointed out already, there are many ways that a demon with the Humanity attunement can be given away as a demon, without being absolutely tagged as one. Body hits. Forces. Essence. For that matter, the demon can still use attunements, and some of those will certainly give him away if he uses them while under observation. Give me time, and I'll think of some more examples. To say that Humanity will constantly create mysterious Infernal miracles that erase all such evidence is to give it power unprecedented by any other Song or attunement, superseded only by an Intervention. Notice that the description of the Humanity attunement says "The demon may pass as human under any circumstance." It doesn't say "pass as a normal human," or "pass as a mundane human." It just says "pass as human." "Pass," IMO, does not mean "convince everyone who might be examining you and wondering if you're not human that you are." It means "betray no proof that you are not human." A human can theoretically have 15 Forces. A human can theoretically use attunements. You can identify someone as having 15 Forces and not have *proof* that they're not human. (For that matter, in In Nomine, undead, Saints, and Children of the Grigori are included in the category of "human.") Trying to create elaborate work-arounds to say that no one can ever expose a demon with Humanity as anything other than a mundane is virtually impossible, without making it a continual Infernal Intervention. I suggest that Humanity should simply be treated as a super-Role, one that ALWAYS succeeds, even to the extent that resonances applied to the subject will ALWAYS give information as if the celestial was resonating on the Role, not the demon. So if Dominic himself asks a demon with Humanity, "Are you a human?" and the demon says "Yes," Dominic will get the Truth that the Symphony agrees with the speaker. If Dominic asks "Have you ever been to Hell?" and the demon says "No," the Symphony will tell Dominic that the speaker has never been to Hell (because as far as the Symphony is concerned, the speaker is the "Role" the demon is currently wearing). However, I suspect Dominic (or another cunning Seraph) could probably find some clever questions that would trip up even a demon with the Humanity attunement. The attunement might prevent the Symphony from ever telling the Seraph "This is a demon," but it can't prevent every possible Truth that the Seraph can use to *deduce* that the subject is not a human. Likewise other resonances, Songs, and the like. Even the Song of the Symphony, or the Seraph of Destiny attunement, won't reveal a demon with the Humanity attunement. But there ARE ways to observe the demon and deduce, by his capabilities and by things that don't add up, that he's not human. So yes, a demon of the Game who wants to go *really* undercover will need to find a way to foil Calabim of Death and Impudites of Technology. That's what undercover is about. They'll need to resort to wimpy vessels if they suspect a Calabite of Death may scrutinize them (and even then, they're likely to show up as a suspiciously tough human), and they'll need not to carry around too much Essence if there are Impudites of the Game about. Humanity can't be a magic deux ex machina that protects the demon from all possible risks of exposure. It's a very, very good disguise, better than any Role, but the demon will still need to use his brains and caution to avoid getting exposed. He needs to avoid celestial attention in the first place, because once he attracts it, eventually they're going to figure it out by watching him. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 00:45:33 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: RE: IN> How do demons figure these things out? >Douglas wrote: > >> Note that it's canon that Heaven and Hell both keep files on individual >> angels and demons (Central Records, in _You Are Here_). >> > > >Don't forget that time in the celestial doesn't necessarily correspond with >the corporeal. So the ofanite can zoom to Heaven, zoom back and bbe >confronted with "Where the hell were you? We hit the tether 3 days ago, >*and* the Cherub was killed. Michael's going to have your head." Point. OTOH, I'd expect that Ofanim in a hurry would find (resonate, resonate) ways to get around this. Maybe require an additional resonance roll to surf differing time-scales efficiently. And, after all, that time-difference business could cut both ways. Seraph: "We need someone to go Upstairs and look at -- Ofanite: (BONG) (goes celestial) Seraph: "Well, while he's gone, we -- Ofanite: (BONG) (reappears) "Here you go. (Hands fat file folder to Seraph) Mercurian: "Hey, you got a tan." >> Of course, if this gets to the point where a useful Servitor is becoming >> incapacitated, his Archangel can always change his oaths. > >If confronted with such a Balseraph, all the Malakim I've dealt with would >swallow the Dissonance and kill the demon. Later they'd talk to their boss: > >AA David: "You have dissonance." >Mal of Stone: "Well, it's like this, the Balseraph didn't hit first, he >simply goaded me into action. Plus he was sitting down, but he was waiting >for a chance to kill the mortal child, and my resonance told me that he had >killed the Cherub." >AA David: "Understood, I'll remove the disonance but try not to let it >happen in future." Half agreement. IMC Stoners can attack to defend someone else from harm, but they can't make revenge attacks even against thoroughly evil creatures. And "he provoked me" is almost never an excuse... David is the *stubborn* AA, after all. Malakite: "But... sir... he was gloating about how he had tortured the poor Cherub..." AA Dave: "Truly, demons are vile. But we don't attack first." Mal: "He was toying with the trigger of his nuclear device..." AA: "We don't attack first." Mal: "While we were talking, he was eating roast rib of dead baby with marshmallow sauce..." AA: [grimaces] "A truly evil creature. I'm glad he's dead." Mal: "Then, sir...?" AA: [hands Mal a toothbrush] "You'll be spending the next week scrubbing graffiti off of a boulder that's one of our Tethers. Go." Mal: [goes] AA Dave: [musing] "I must remember to tell the Seneschal to go easy on him. And I did give him the _big_ toothbrush..." Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 01:11:16 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Words, Distinctions >>>>Well, IMC I tend to give out 1-2 character points per hour of play. >>>>So, an average evening of play -- dinnertime to 11-12 -- typically >>>>generates 5-10 points. I suspect this is a bit high<<< > >A bit? In the GMG, I recommend awarding 1-4 points per session, with 1-2 >points being average. At the rate you suggest, any campaign with regular >(weekly) games will have PCs who are vying for Superior status within a >year! Hasn't happened IMC. I've had one, maybe two PCs retired to NPC status because they were getting too powerful. My campaigns tend to be pretty lethal. Dissonance, Discord, Trauma, and Force-stripping are fairly regular events, and the loss of attunements is not unheard of. It's War, after all, and the PCs are front-line soldiers; they're going to rack up wounds and scars, as well as medals and promotions. (Had one demon character who gained his twelfth force _three_ times. Got it burned away in celestial combat twice and stripped off by an irritated Superior once. After which he announced that he wasn't spending any more points on Forces, but was going to be Hell's first 11-Force Duke...) So far, it seems to have balanced out. And both the players and I are enjoying ourselves, which is what matters. >>>>3rd level -- Think I've only given out three or four of these, ever.<<< > > "ONLY"? In a year and a half of GMing, yeah, only. I don't find this extreme. And I actually have given out one *fourth* level distinction. Once. Though, it must be said, this was one of the two characters who retired to NPC status (immediately thereafter). Me: "Well, Frank, good job. Luris, having played a pivotal role in preventing Armageddon, is now a Marquis. Luris is in good graces with his Prince, Lucifer himself has taken notice of his accomplishements, and his new Word has Servitors lining up outside the bronze doors of his lair in Shal-Mari. Two Malakim have sworn an oath not to rest until he's dead, while Prince Andre has just invited him to the annual Fancy Dress Ball, which as we know is for Barons and higher nobility only. Oh, and his 17 Forces make him the most powerful PC we've ever had." Frank: "Cool." (pause) Me: "You know, Frank --" Frank: "Yeah, I was thinking --" My campaign has gotten a bit tougher since then... well, actually, it hasn't, but I've gotten noticeably stingier with Distinctions and some other sorts of goodies. So Luris' place in legend will probably be secure for a while to come. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 01:31:34 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> She's like the Wind... >I don't know whether to say Ow or Wow. That's a great character! I'm not >sure if she's balanced enough for a first time player, but for an >experienced player, she'd pose a real challenge! And she'd make a GREAT >NPC. I can think of ways to use her even now! I can think of no higher praise. Thank you. Mind, someone else pointed out -- correctly -- that I got her Songs screwed up. Cel Song of Form, frex, only lasts half an hour, tops, and then she'd have to burn another point of Essence to renew it. I *knew* that... I just forgot (blush). Give her a level or two of a Disguise skill to fix that (not a skill in canon, but an obvious one to add). I'm figuring simple stuff like hair dye and the like... just so she's not too likely to be recognized by a random acquaintance. Anyhow, as to using her as an NPC... well, it's fun to give angels human friends. Servants, Soldiers, you name it. They get so upset when the poor humans trip and fall... Or if you have demon PCs, run her past them. She can't fight worth anything, but she _can_ make all sorts of trouble for them otherwise. IME the lesson "non-combat characters can still be dangerous" is always in need of renewal... Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 01:54:29 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Using Canon, Especially Bad Expanded Choir Resonances >>No, no. Most angels have nonviolent resonances. But the Merc resonance, >>without the APG expansion, was no better than the Elohite or Malakite >>resonances, and maybe not quite as good. > >You're kidding me... With decent check digits, the Merc resonance is >VILE to GM for... (What did I know, I was GMing a Judgmenter Mercurian, >who gets _additional_ information! I learned fast.) > >Here's some samples: [much snippage] > <> Jude says "Erm, nope. Sorcerer, check. In league with a demon > named Desdinova, check. From some weird principality or marches realm > called Elshthan. Check. Lives a long time. Check." > > >Now, tell me that the Mercurian resonance is "wimpy." Hey. *I* never said that. Just that it wasn't head and shoulders over the Mal and Elohite resonances. But, YES, firm agreement, those check digit tables can be a pain. PCs *will* go around resonating people more or less for the heck of it. Especially the ones that require the GM to come up with multiple pieces of information on the spot. Malakite: I resonate the bartender. (rolls a 4) GM: Okay, the three most noble things he's done in the last year are ... um, he joined the Big Brothers, loaned his sister $5,000 to pay for her eye operation even though he couldn't afford it, and he stuck to a policy of throwing out serious alchoholics, even though it got him in trouble with his boss. Three most ignoble things, he -- Elohite: I'm resonating the bouncer, meanwhile. (rolls a 4) GM: Umm, the bouncer... you get his current emotional state, which is boredom mingled with underlying nervousness, and his two strongest emotions, which are depression that he can't find a better job, and fear of -- Elohite: Underlying nervousness? Get the Merc over here. Mercurian: *I* resonate the bouncer. (rolls a 3) GM: (beginning to sweat) His name is Lloyd, he thinks he should be doing something better than this, most people around him agree, he's a Lutheran from Wisconsin, he likes World Wide Wrestling and -- Malakite: Hey, I'm still waiting on the bartender's ignoble deeds over here. GM: Right, right. Okay, he short-changes drunks who've been obnoxious, he nearly kicked a guy to death in a fight, and he had sex with a high school girl who was really too drunk to know what was going on. Malakite: (frowning) That last one is pretty bad. Maybe we should teach him a lesson. Mercurian: Well, maybe he feels bad about it. Let's ask him and find out. Get the Elohite over here. Elohite: Waitasec, I'm still finishing with the bouncer. GM: (trying to move things along) Actually, the bouncer just left for a moment. While he's gone, a woman comes in, looks around as if looking for -- (All three): I resonate the woman! This is time-consuming and hard on the GM's imagination, too. But you can't fuzz it -- much -- or the players will start getting suspicious when you DO give a full report. It also tends to get certain sorts of players lost in distractions. Which is why you want to be a leetle bit picky about who you let play those particular choirs. Incidentally, I'd like to see a Canon ruling on the Merc resonance and Roles. I've been playing it that the Merc gets the skinny on the Role, not the underlying celestial. If the Role is skimpy, I give the Merc a Perception roll, minus the level of the Role, to notice something funny. Has this been wrong all along? Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 23:01:10 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Mercurians and Shedim >From: Walter Milliken >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > >Actually, there's a perfectly good tactic in this instance -- knock the >host out with a blow to the head. (OK, so there's no rules for that, >but....) If the host is unconscious, then the Shedite is forced out in >(I recall) 30 minutes. It's very very difficult to keep someone unconscious for 30 minutes, just from having knocked them out -- without taking the risk of brain damage, that is (we usually assume that celestials, at least, are fairly immune to drugs). But if you're being that twinky about it, use Song of Celestial Charm to get its Will down, then Song of Thunder with lots of Essence behind it, then drag the body to a tether and slit its throat. You'll get your Shedite that way. jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 23:05:23 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Merc resonances >From: Douglas Muir >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > >Jean Mal -- so-so. > Merc -- radioheads. Decent. Have to disagree here. The Malakite of Jean attunement is one of the best in the book, IMO. (Maybe that's just the engineer in me speaking, but /I/ would never let me play one of those, because I'd be so twinky with it). The Mercurian one is a bit naff though. What's the fun in having an attunement that anyone else can mimic with a song? jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 23:18:48 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Re: mercurian dissonance >From: EDG >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > >Attuned really, >truly wants to die - would rather die and go to Heaven than stay on earth >and risk being scattered to the winds. Cherub is too emotionally attached >to the attuned to kill her, even though he /knows/ she'll go to Heaven. > Cherubim CAN de-attune, you know. jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 23:27:02 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Enough with the Smarmy Nitpicking! >From: "Patrick O'Duffy" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > >David Edelstein wrote: > > > > OK, this whole "Demon Princess of Nitpicking" schtick was mildly amusing > > at first, and if Elizabeth wants to keep playing that game, it's her > > choice. But it is, IMO, getting out of hand, annoying, no longer funny, > > and worse, being wielded like a club. > >Testify, brother, testify! >Or in other words, I'm with David. I so agree. jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 99 18:36:22 PST From: "Azrael" Subject: IN> Vessels 1) Do Vessels die from a headshot? 2) If vessels don't respire, but have to breath, then couldn't they breathe any gas if there is suffiecient pressure and suffer no ill effects, like frex the vessel dying? 3)What are the maths (i.e. Roll against Characteristic, damage = check digit plus power, plus strength plus the value of the dollar etc..) for Numinous Corpus i.e. is strength included in the rolls, do the damage bonus' given for kicks and punches apply (Pg. 65) (If not why not!!!!) etc.. 4) Do distubance trace to the source or place of the disturbance? 5)How do multiple attacks with feet work, the explanation is quite convoluted. Thanx'you'verr'mush Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 03:16:31 From: avallaire@yahoo.com Subject: IN> Your Gifting Invitation Happy Holidays, A group of like-minded individuals have chosen to extend to you an invitation into a private gifting club that has changed the lives of countless families world-wide. Learn how combining the power of duplicity and giving will change your life Forever! Call 1-888-248-5066 for a recorded overview 7 days a week, 24 hours a day... Cyber-Cheers!!! The mailing is done by an independent marketing co. We apologize if this message has reached you in error. Save the Planet, Save the Trees! Advertise via E-Mail. No wasted paper! Delete with one simple keystroke! Less refuse in our Dumps! This is the way of a new Millennium. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 09:06:00 -0600 From: "Dennis Groome V" Subject: Re: IN> Vessels - -Dennis Groome V / "Amo Nympham" http://evm-gamers.freeservers.com ICQ: 11430261 "I think I woke up screaming, 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me." -Stabbing Westward, ACF - -----Original Message----- From: Azrael To: IN Date: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 3:13 AM Subject: IN> Vessels >1) Do Vessels die from a headshot? if they take enough body hits from it. personally, i use a modified combat system (which, BTW i noticed was in the GMG when i scanned through it, although i could be a little wrong) which makes gunfire quite deadly... >2) If vessels don't respire, but have to breath, then couldn't they breathe any >gas if there is suffiecient pressure and suffer no ill effects, like frex >the vessel dying? umm...i think the whole breathing thing is a mystic spiritual aspect of the Vessel (the breath of Life) and must be oxygen. otherwise what's really the point of saying they need to breathe. >3)What are the maths (i.e. Roll against Characteristic, damage = check digit plus power, > plus strength plus the value of the dollar etc..) for Numinous Corpus i.e. is strength included in the >rolls, do the damage bonus' given for kicks and punches apply (Pg. 65) (If not why not!!!!) etc.. depends on the NC. if it's something like Claws, use the Claws CD during combat with regular rules to hit, etc. >4) Do distubance trace to the source or place of the disturbance? yes. it's up the GM whether or not he wants to use "sticky" disturbance. personally i do not, it's no fun when the PCs run straight to the disturbance and find the villain, let them play PI for a game or two. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 10:40:42 EST From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Laurence's Fight Song! In a message dated 11/30/99 5:03:25 PM, ben@zianet.com writes: >> I found this in Thomas Pynchon's novel _Mason & Dixon_. In the book > >> it's sung by a Jesuit, but it's perfect for the Armies of God at large. > >> Of course, this song is (c) 1997 to Pynchon. > > > >It wasn't until I scrolled back up to the top that I realized this wasn't > >the theme song for the Salvation Army. No idea how I misread that. > > > >Ben > > Well, from personal experience (did I mention I have an Aunt who is a Colonel in the Salvation army?), the Salvation Army's theme song is 'Onward Christian Soldiers.' At a quickstep. Played by a brass band. With the women doing flashy things with timbrels (AKA tambourines). Personally, I've always thought that I'd cast General Booth as a Mercurian or Soldier of Stone, if it ever came up in-game. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 10:57:19 -0600 From: Shadowstar Subject: Re: IN> Merc resonances At 11:05 PM -0800 11/30/99, Jo Hart wrote: [. . . Snippage of what a Malakite and Mecurian of Lighting can do. . .] >The Mercurian one is a bit naff though. What's the fun in having an >attunement that anyone else can mimic with a song? Because it _always_ succeeds, and doesn't _seem_ to require Essence (this last part isn't clearly explained, even in the APG; Where most of the weirdities of the Band Attunements are clearly explained in the IPG). Since Jean can hand this attunement off to other Servitors of Lighting, it has a _lot_ of uses. Especially since it'll allow a group of them to communicate _silently_ between themselves without saying _anything_. There are times when this can be a critical advantage. . . Especially when dealing with Vapulan Echo Chambers. . . };;;> Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centurytel.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://home.centurytel.net/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 10:59:32 -0600 From: Shadowstar Subject: IN> Cherubim Dissonance (WAS: mercurian dissonance) At 11:18 PM -0800 11/30/99, Jo Hart wrote: >Cherubim CAN de-attune, you know. Taking a Will roll to do so. . . And they don't _always_ like to do it either. Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centurytel.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://home.centurytel.net/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 12:42:12 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: RE: IN> The good ol' Humanity attunement At 19:44 -0500 11/30/99, Leath Sheales wrote: >On a related note, I think the Humanity attunement should be expanded to >reduce the hit points of the demon, since his vessel is now akin to a human >body. Or maybe if you "kill" the human -- doing enough damage to kill a normal human, that is -- the attunement breaks. Or quite possibly, the vessel actually dies, putting the demon in Trauma; this may be a good fix if you think this attunement is too powerful. > Otherwise, you have the same problem with Calabim of (Death?) as you >do with Impudites of Technology. The Calabim can tell how huch it takes to >kill something, and a human with that many hit points ain't natural. Again, this is a case where the answer he gets back may simply be inaccurate, and the error won't be noticed unless the Calabite actually *does* that much damage. At that point, the Game is over, very likely. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 12:55:54 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Mercurians and Shedim At 2:01 -0500 12/1/99, Jo Hart wrote: >It's very very difficult to keep someone unconscious for 30 minutes, just >from having knocked them out -- without taking the risk of brain damage, >that is (we usually assume that celestials, at least, are fairly immune to >drugs). Actually, I don't think they're supposed to be particularly immune to drugs, other than the fact that they have higher tolerance due to higher stats, and that they don't *have* to eat to drink, so it may be hard to get drugs into them. But I believe chloroform or general sleep drugs ought to knock them out. I'd have to go check the drug rules to be sure, though. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 13:01:26 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Merc resonances At 11:57 -0500 12/1/99, Shadowstar wrote: >At 11:05 PM -0800 11/30/99, Jo Hart wrote: >>The Mercurian one is a bit naff though. What's the fun in having an >>attunement that anyone else can mimic with a song? > > Because it _always_ succeeds, and doesn't _seem_ to require Essence >(this last part isn't clearly explained, even in the APG; Where most of the >weirdities of the Band Attunements are clearly explained in the IPG). It's been clarified in the GURPS IN draft -- it still requires Essence. I assume this clarification will make it into the IN FAQ or errata at some point. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 13:08:58 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Vessels At 21:36 -0500 12/1/99, Azrael wrote: >1) Do Vessels die from a headshot? If they take enough damage from it. (Since IN doesn't have any hit-location rules in the core rules, that's about all you can go by.) >2) If vessels don't respire, but have to breath, then couldn't they breathe any >gas if there is suffiecient pressure and suffer no ill effects, like frex >the vessel dying? I believe the intent is that they need oxygen. >3)What are the maths (i.e. Roll against Characteristic, damage = check digit plus power, > plus strength plus the value of the dollar etc..) for Numinous Corpus i.e. is strength included in the >rolls, do the damage bonus' given for kicks and punches apply (Pg. 65) (If not why not!!!!) etc.. If I recall right, these all use the formula for Fighting, which I think is in the errata. I believe the kick/punch damage is superceded by any relevant NC's Power, but I'm not sure of that. (I think this question came up once before on the list.) >4) Do distubance trace to the source or place of the disturbance? Either, GM's option. I normally use just the latter. >5)How do multiple attacks with feet work, the explanation is quite convoluted. I thought this was in the errata or the FAQ, but I can't find it. Maybe John answered it here on the list. I don't recall the details well enough to try to repeat them. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 13:18:30 -0500 (EST) From: Diane J Donaldson Subject: Re: IN> Words, distinctions. Douglas Muir writes: > Well, IMC I tend to give out 1-2 character points per hour of play. So, an > average evening of play -- dinnertime to 11-12 -- typically generates 5-10 > points. I suspect this is a bit high, but OTOH my campaigns can be rather > dangerous -- Dissonance and Discord are fairly common, combat can be > lethal, and force-stripping is not unknown. Urgle. I tend to give out one or two points per *adventure*, which is usually 3 or 4 evenings. But then again, my players delight in spending hours debating fine moral points. Often all I have to do is introduce a situation, and for the next 20 minutes they roleplay their character's reactions, having a fine time. It's great fun to watch, and I can catch up on my knitting, if I so choose, since I am then completely superfluous to their enjoyment. It usually takes at least two sessions to get through 24 hours in game time, and sometimes more than that. It really depends on what type of campaign you want. For my group, the fun is in exploring their characters and how they interact with the world and each other, so gaining lots of character points or distinctions is not crucial to them. Keeping the rewards low also helps me keep on top of the situation, and when I give them an unexpected freebie they know it's for something outstanding. As always, your mileage may vary... djd ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 12:58:22 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Angelic Resonance (was Re: IN> Using Canon, Especially Bad Expanded Choir Resonances) The Elohim, Malakim and Mercurian resonances can get out of hand for evaluating humans. Most players I've known don't evaluate people randomly (though they will do the crowd test for an area that has seen some activity recently). Generally they wait to use their resonances when they think the individual in question is suspicious (generally by using normal information gathering methods first). However when it does start getting out of hand (high CD) I have found two methods of dealing with it. The first is very time consuming, it involves giving people lots of background information even if their going to just be on stage for a few moments. In addition having prepared life stories are also useful, for when they do the crowd test and start resonating people that just walk on the assumption that their important. This means more work pre-game, but allows you to just read from a sheet of paper (or if the cd is high enough hand them the paper). Having it written down also has the useful effect of making the player think that the person is important, useful for training metagamers to leave that mind set. The second option is what lead me to using free form resonance rules. Just use the cd as a guide, describe the most important aspects and give as much information as seems appropriate for the cd. For instance an Elohim who gets a cd of 4 when evaluating a paranoid person will understand the individual is paranoid and what the specific nature of their paranoia is. It often follows the guidlines of the specific chart but it frees you from the slavish devotion to the chart which can be the main cause of irritance for angelic resonances. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1440 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.