From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Dec 4 00:21:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA15258 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 1999 00:21:26 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id JAA21261 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 17 Nov 1999 09:04:39 -0600 Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 09:04:39 -0600 Message-Id: <199911171504.JAA21261@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1446 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, November 17 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1446 In this digest: Re: IN> Nylius, Angel of Rebellion Re: IN> Malakite 6. Re: IN> Malakite 6. Re: IN> Malakim Question Re: IN> IN and GURPS IN changes Re: IN> Malakim Re: IN> Quote Length (partial repost from sjgames.innomine) Re: IN> Eli's Malakite Attunement, and why it needs to be rewritten. IN> Garden of Eden Re: IN> Garden of Eden Re: IN> Gaing force by attribute improvement IN> Re: >:(Fluff) The End of Dominic, The Return of Eli Re: IN> The Humanity Attunement Re: IN> Garden of Eden Re: IN> The Humanity Attunement Re: IN> Gaing force by attribute improvement Re: IN> Gaing force by attribute improvement How Not To Post (Was Re: IN> Garden of Eden) Re: IN> Malakite 6. Re: IN> Gaing force by attribute improvement Re: IN> Gaing force by attribute improvement Re: IN> The Humanity Attunement Re: IN> Gaing force by attribute improvement Re: IN> Tether of Destiny IN> The Rev cycle Re: IN> The Rev cycle IN> An Apology Re: IN> The Humanity Attunement Re: IN> Gaing force by attribute improvement Re: IN> Re: >:(Fluff) The End of Dominic, The Return of Eli ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 17:44:10 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Nylius, Angel of Rebellion I like it. I'm not sure this Word would be given out easily, but I like it. Couple of points: - -- It's canon that Dominic is willing to cut a troublesome angel _some_ slack if he isn't Dissonant and is troublesome only because he's serving his Word. Cf. the main book's writeup on Janus. - -- I like the historical background. Of course, I usually do. Well, when it's done well. Which this was. - -- Also like his rumored connections to infernals... Lilith, Malphas and just maybe Lucifer, yes of course. Neat. - -- It's canon that the Demon of Insubordination has no Superior but Lucifer himself. I wonder if this guy might go the same way; even Janus would issue the occasional order, after all. Hmm, except the Seraph Council probably wouldn't like it... All in all a good NPC idea. The sort of guy I might have trot past the PCs in Heaven sometime, stop to chat for a moment, and trot on. IMC Heaven is a great place for cameos of this sort (cf. my writeup on Eos, the "dawn angel", and others). Anyhow, point of Essence to ya. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 18:01:46 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Malakite 6. At 8:09 PM -0400 12/2/99, Douglas Muir wrote: >>At 05:08 PM 12/2/99 -0700, you wrote: >> >>>It seems to me that the lower levels (3, for example) are more useful in >>>determining someone's badness. If you know the nastiest things he HAS done, >>>isn't that more useful than knowing (on a 6), the nastiest thing he *could* >>>do? > >Ooh, we've been playing that it *includes* that lesser information, if the >player wants to know. It is one of the few CD tables that _doesn't_ read "you know the above, and..." on each entry... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 17:58:44 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Malakite 6. At 5:08 PM -0700 12/2/99, Ben Glickler wrote: >I have two Malakim in my group. They both love their resonance. They both >love to shake hands. They frequently get 6 (or higher) on the check digit. [...] >Or am I misreading the table, and does a Malakite who gets a 6 get specific >details of how good/bad/ugly a person is? I think we've generally been playing it (or, more accurately, I've seen it played) that what you get is _sort of_ akin to Divine Destiny (but not actual destinies or fates, generally!), and a sense of how far in either direction the person is. Basically, they can detect Balseraphs on a 6, which indicates that they can sense the "baseline" selfishness of the person in an interesting way. At least to me. So I'd give them a rough idea of how good/bad/ugly the person was on an "absolute" scale, yeah. You can probably justify this by the wording that says what the person _aspires_ to -- a truly honorless person would likely not aspire to much honor, right? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 18:28:51 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Malakim Question At 7:39 AM -0500 12/3/99, Jon Compton wrote: [...] >What if a Malakim (of Eli, if it matters) was assigned to L.A. (which >is run by demons) and told by Eli, "Be cool for now, you'll get your >chance later..." [...] >Knowing that he will be able to fulfil his oath at a later time, would >he still get dissonance? It's generally been declared that should a Malakite be told by his Superior, "Let this demon/these demons/all demons you meet in the next year/all demons you meet till I tell you otherwise live," the Malakite will not become dissonant. Just very, very, very frustrated and probably a little unhinged at worst. O:> Max, in LA, was taking dissonance from his _other_ oaths. The frustration aspect was just non-dissonant but painful icing on the cake. On his own initiative, a Malakite might be able to bide his time, even in LA, so long as he was CONSTANTLY working on his Master Plan to slay as many of the worst demons as he could (instead of throwing his life, and other angelic lives, away by attacking too soon). But he'd probably be one obsessed guy when he finished. And have a tendency to giggle to himself, maybe. O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 19:05:46 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> IN and GURPS IN changes At 12:53 PM -0500 12/3/99, Walter Milliken wrote: >The two cases I can recall where we've actually changed an IN power >are Habbalah of Death, whose attunement just didn't make much sense as >a Word ability (in GURPS IN, they can remotely-control corpses, sort of >like temp zombies,), and Gabriel's Vassal of Fire distinction, which >should have been described as game effects, not physics (GURPS IN uses >a generally-similar GURPS fire-control power description now). Both changes >are supposed to go back into the IN line. And, to forstall other things, the Habbalite of Death attunment was pointed out to SJ and blessed by him, and so was the Vassal of Fire Distinction (where SJ _specifically_ said, 'This goes into IN 2/e, right?' or words to that effect; the change _will_ be in the Gabriel writeup for Superiors 3). >An example of something that probably *won't* propagate back into IN is >the way Songs are handled in GURPS IN -- they've been shifted around >somewhat to better match the GURPS magic system, but there's no reason >to try to push those changes back into IN. (I see no reason to shift it back, nope. So maybe GURPS IN can maintain a Song; IN isn't going to add maintanance costs.) And another thing for the anti-GURPS lot... There is a difference between making GURPS IN and IN agree, and making IN agree with GURPS. Where a power needed to be clarified in GURPS IN, it often (but not always) pointed out that the power was far too vague in IN. Therefore, a clarification _needed_ to be made, and was written into GURPS IN. No, you're not going to see discussion about hexes, one-second combat actions, yadda. That's GURPS, not IN. GURPS IN is the bridge between, though, and it needs to be sturdy on both sides -- which means that there are times when GURPS IN and IN are going to be forced to agree. And GURPS IN is In Nomine edition 1.5 -- it's a trial run to see where things _are_ too vague, or don't work, or are poorly organized. If something in GURPS IN _works_, and isn't far too GURPSy, then why _not_ use it for IN 2/e? (And anyone wishing to take this up with me can do it in private email and discuss the decision with SJ himself, because he _knows_ that's my intention, and hasn't said it's a bad idea.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 19:05:51 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Malakim At 1:51 PM -0700 12/3/99, Tim Groth wrote: [Malakim of Creation] >I have a question to add to this entire thing, can this extend into >celestial combat (letting them pick up bits of celestial things to use as >weapons). I can just imagine a Malakite of Creation grabbing a demonling >and using it to beat a demon to soul death. I see little reason _not_ to let them use random "celestial objects" if such exist in one's campaign. Do not beard the Malakite of Creation in his workshop... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 19:05:49 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Quote Length (partial repost from sjgames.innomine) At 10:44 AM -0700 12/3/99, EDG wrote: >At 12:47 PM 12/3/99 -0000, Meehan Anthony wrote: > > > >And that, right there, is my point. > >Please snip quotes, folks. It's really, honestly not that hard. I >promise. An added benefit is that it won't piss people off. Like me. I send little nasty notes for at least four things: * Quoting too much. Remember Beth's Rule of Thumb: If your material is less than 1/3rd of the message, you're almost certainly quoting too much. * Using non-ascii text (like HTML or MIME). * Flaming. * Off-topic. So don't do it, because I _do_ kick people off if they willfully ignore such nasty little notes. (Remember, everyone with a Microsoft emailer, check and see if it's set to Plain Text! Then you don't get the nasty little note with the 'how to turn it off' instructions! Said instructions are in the digests somewhere... Should be a FAQ, hmm.) And yes, anyone who copies all this and then gives a one-line, "Me, too!" _will_ be u n s u b s c r i b e d. It wasn't funny the first time someone did it, and it won't be funny now. - --Beth, List Admin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 20:01:53 EST From: Dreadblade0328@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Eli's Malakite Attunement, and why it needs to be rewritten. In a message dated 12/3/99 12:49:02 AM Central Standard Time, mtrent@utdallas.edu writes: << No! The it's one of the coolest attunements exactly because a Mal of Eli _can_ vessel kill a demon with a rutabaga or roll of toilet paper. It encourages creativity and generally lightens the atmosphere of the game. If your game can't handle true IN just change the rules in your campaign, but don't force IN to become even less cool of a game then it already is. There has been a disturbing trend in the IN universe to take itself seriously and this needs to be stopped! Just say no to reason and rhyme! Trent Ofanite of doubt >> Amen. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 18:39:12 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: IN> Garden of Eden Ok the Garden did exist in the In-nomine universe (as there was an entire Eden experement and all). Is there any canon on the nature/location of the Garden? Something is banging around in my heretical brain. If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 12:53:56 +1100 From: "Lachlan Smith" Subject: Re: IN> Garden of Eden Especially as, if memory serves, Uriel was supposed to be a guardian of it :) makes it even more interesting It was made from Grief Molded from Sorrow It's belly out of hard days It's soundboard from endless Woes It's strings gathered from torments And its pegs from other Ills So it will not play, will not rejoice at all Music will not play to please Give off the right sort of Joy For it was fashioned from cares Moulded from sorrow - -My Kantele As translated and sung by Amorphis - ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Groth To: Sent: Saturday, 4 December 1999 12:39 Subject: IN> Garden of Eden > Ok the Garden did exist in the In-nomine universe (as there was an entire > Eden experement and all). Is there any canon on the nature/location of the > Garden? Something is banging around in my heretical brain. > > > > > > > > > > If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: > http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Dec 99 12:04:06 PST From: "Azrael" Subject: Re: IN> Gaing force by attribute improvement Can you buy an additional 3 points in all areas after you've maxed out your forces? AZrael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 21:08:59 -0500 From: Ehrbar Subject: IN> Re: >:(Fluff) The End of Dominic, The Return of Eli > Matt W's idea that Eli is gathering evidence against Dominic is interesting. > I've also had thoughts along those lines. But if I may be permitted to add > my own bit of fluff to Matt's fluff.... Oooh. Now, of course -- what's Eli really up to? He's being creative with the truth for political ends, but he has the Word of Creation and is a member of the political Chior. Perhaps he's decided that Michael needs to be returned to command oif the Host for a more agressive phase of the War. See, removing Dominic and Novalis strengthens the political position of Michael, while weakening Laurence and the peace faction of Heaven. And removing Dominic for being too harsh may help vindicate Michael politically to an extent that he could return to commanding the Host. Plus, a more active War could really use Gabriel as the Punisher of the Wicked back in Heaven, a goal also aided by removing Dominic. And an Archangel using Asmodeus to speed the defeat of Hell *is* creative. Perhaps Asmodeus should listen more carefully when Eli says he can use anything as a weapon, and consider where this one is aimed. Steven Ehrbar ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 02:30:43 -0000 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> The Humanity Attunement From: Elizabeth McCoy > Humanity is invulnerable to the five resonances and 15 attunements > and Distinctions which might otherwise indirectly "blow the cover." > Including, natch, Vapulan Impudite glasses. > (I can get the list of things which would otherwise affect it, if anyone > cares.) well, kinda, though to be that honest i'm not exactly frothing at the mouth for information on the humanity attunement or anything. it's just that, as i saw it, the debate wasn't really whether the attunement could fool other attunements and resonances. i think pretty much everyone is agreed that it can. it was that some people were claiming that this attunement was powerful enough to alter character's thoughts, causing them to believe that the asmodean was human, no matter what the evidence contrary was (having lots of hits, using essence, using songs, whatever). that was the part i found difficult to believe liam ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 02:46:03 -0000 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> Garden of Eden From: Lachlan Smith > Especially as, if memory serves, Uriel was supposed to be a guardian of it > :) makes it even more interesting i think this takes on a special resonance (no pun intended) for anyone who's read clive barker's weaveworld. uriel's the tops. heheheheheh.... liam ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 21:50:39 EST From: SdshowTim@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> The Humanity Attunement In a message dated 12/3/99 7:22:49 PM, esp.horsepie@btinternet.com writes: << it was that some people were claiming that this attunement was powerful enough to alter character's thoughts, causing them to believe that the asmodean was human, no matter what the evidence contrary was (having lots of hits, using essence, using songs, whatever). that was the part i found difficult to believe >> That argument (at least when I was for it) was the option to make the attunement do what stated while allowing other powers to see things that would lead to the conclusion not human. To do what the humanity attunement says it either has to cloud the minds of individuals to prevent people from concluding the individual is anything but human or it feeds false information into all things that could show otherwise. Either way its damned powerful, which is why I think its a gift from Lucifer to Asmodeus regardless of how it works. Timothy, Angel of Rambling ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 20:06:45 -0700 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Gaing force by attribute improvement At 12:04 PM 12/4/99 PST, you wrote: > >Can you buy an additional 3 points in all areas after you've maxed out your >forces? Nope - at least IMC. Beth may strike this down. :) When you have 6 Forces in an area, you have 12 in both characteristics in that area. That's the Absolute Maximum Characteristic for a Standard Celestial. (Even Archangels only have 12 in each characteristics. However, they also have Awesomely Powerful Words, which boost them to insane levels.) Something I've been thinking about is partial Forces. They have no real game effect - except that when a celestial is in celestial form, those partial Forces (a quarter of a Force per point of characteristic) sort of swirl around them weirdly, like a strange aura. On the other hand, this could easily lead to abuse. ("Hey, Fred the angel's about to get a new Force! Concentrate on him.") - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 21:16:42 -0600 From: Shadowstar Subject: Re: IN> Gaing force by attribute improvement At 12:04 PM -0800 12/4/99, Azrael wrote: >Can you buy an additional 3 points in all areas after you've maxed out your >forces? Alas, no. Celestials can have a Maximum of 18 Forces (6 in each of the three realms) Total (not counting Word Forces, which were introduced in the GMG). 12 is the maximum they can have in ANY one stat. So, once you get 6 X Forces, and you have an 12 Y and 12 Z, you cannot go about adding another 3 points to either Y or Z. About the only thing you _can_ do at this point is Retire the Character, Improve Songs/Skills/Attunements, or turn them into a Superior (which is not canonical, but your game is your game to do with). Usually people are recommended to retire after getting that last Force. Humans max out at 15 Forces, and 10 in each attribute. Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centurytel.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://home.centurytel.net/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 20:31:23 -0700 From: EDG Subject: How Not To Post (Was Re: IN> Garden of Eden) Lachlan has just demonstrated four of my major pet peeves. (One of them I didn't even mention in my previous post!) Please observe. (I have quoted the entire post to demonstrate my point. It's NOT something you should do - mentioned later - and the only reason I do it is because each section has relevance, and is used for emphasis.) At 12:53 PM 12/4/99 +1100, Lachlan Smith wrote: >Especially as, if memory serves, Uriel was supposed to be a guardian of it >:) makes it even more interesting This is the entirety of Lachlan's post. Two lines. This is not only MUCH shorter than the original post to which Lachlan was replying (peeve #1), but... >It was made from Grief >Molded from Sorrow >It's belly out of hard days >It's soundboard from endless Woes >It's strings gathered from torments >And its pegs from other Ills >So it will not play, will not rejoice at all >Music will not play to please >Give off the right sort of Joy >For it was fashioned from cares >Moulded from sorrow >-My Kantele >As translated and sung by Amorphis ...it's also VASTLY shorter than his signature file! (Peeve #2) As Beth says in the FAQ: "A tagline in your .sig that is too long or never changes (even a Dilbert quote stops being funny after the tenth reading -- let alone the hundredth). A message footer should really not be more than four lines. If you want to say something about yourself, put in a one-line teaser and then point us to your web page where you can indulge our desire to know everything about you. Take away those borders, we already know that the info following your closing salutation is the footer." Long Signatures Are Bad. Remember this. It will serve you well. Lachlan also included a huge amount of space between his text and his signature. Tim Groth, you get bapped for this too, but not as badly. You at least have a one-line signature. (For reference, the FAQ can be retrieved by sending email to majordomo@lists.io.com, subject blank, body "info in_nomine-l". In fact, don't just make this for reference. Go read it. All of you. Right now. Don't continue to read my post until you've read /all/ of the FAQ. Done? Okay. Move on.) >----- Original Message ----- >From: Tim Groth >To: >Sent: Saturday, 4 December 1999 12:39 >Subject: IN> Garden of Eden Again from the FAQ: "Never, ever, requote the message's Internet pathway header or its .sig (the composer's clever message footer)..." >> Ok the Garden did exist in the In-nomine universe (as there was an entire >> Eden experement and all). Is there any canon on the nature/location of >the >> Garden? Something is banging around in my heretical brain. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: >> http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ >> >> > If you /must/ quote the entire message, please at least kill off all of the extraneous carriage returns. There should NEVER be more than one blank line at any time. However, you don't have to quote the entire message (peeve #3). No mail reader that I've ever encountered - and that's a /lot/ of them - has ever required you to quote all of the previous user's message. So don't do it. And /really/ don't quote /all/ of the carriage returns. And, lastly, we come to the final peeve. This is actually personal preference, but it's based on /years/ of mailing lists and Usenet. If you're quoting, to establish context (what else would you be quoting for?), please establish the context /before/ you make your statement. Putting the quote at the end means that I have to search for the context in which your original text exists. A summary: #1: Thy original text shall be greater than thy quoted text. If it is not, thou shalt receive upon thee a plague of frogs. #2: Thy original text shall be greater than thy signature file. If it is not, thou shalt receive upon thee a plague of locusts. #2.5: Thou shalt not quote the header file. If thou dost, thou shalt receive upon thee a plague of boils. #3: Thou shalt not quote the entire message that thou art replying to. If thou dost, thou shall receive upon thee fire from the sky. #4: Thou shalt not put thy text above the quoted text, for doing so offends thy Angel of Networks, who is a most jealous angel. If thou dost, thou shalt receive upon thee a free trip through a wood chipper. - -EDG still in a strange and nasty mood. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 22:40:54 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Malakite 6. >>Ooh, we've been playing that it *includes* that lesser information, if the >>player wants to know. > >It is one of the few CD tables that _doesn't_ read "you know the above, >and..." >on each entry... Yeah, good point. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 22:49:03 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Gaing force by attribute improvement >When you have 6 Forces in an area, you have 12 in both characteristics in >that area. That's the Absolute Maximum Characteristic for a Standard >Celestial. Hey. What about the Demon of Steam, in Heaven and Hell? He has 6 Corp Forces, 8 Agility and 16 Strength. Canon character, and not even a Superior. >Even Archangels only have 12 in each characteristics. ? I don't remember seeing this anywhere. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 00:32:18 -0500 (EST) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Gaing force by attribute improvement On Fri, 3 Dec 1999, Douglas Muir wrote: > >When you have 6 Forces in an area, you have 12 in both characteristics in > >that area. That's the Absolute Maximum Characteristic for a Standard > >Celestial. > > Hey. What about the Demon of Steam, in Heaven and Hell? > > He has 6 Corp Forces, 8 Agility and 16 Strength. > > Canon character, and not even a Superior. Please check the errata before referencing something in an IN book, especially one in the Revelations Cycle! All instances of characters having attributes above 12 have been errata'd back into place. Can't see how ANY line editor let THAT one get through, though.... - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! "Human germ!" -- Shrapnel (Decepticon), _Transformers: The Movie_ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 20:10:10 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> The Humanity Attunement >From: "Liam Astley" it was that some people were claiming that this attunement was powerful >enough to alter character's thoughts, causing them to believe that the >asmodean was human, no matter what the evidence contrary was (having lots >of >hits, using essence, using songs, whatever). that was the part i found >difficult to believe > > Mmm. Yeah, I dunno. I suppose for consistency you could just say that the demon temporarily loses its ability to spend Essence at will (just like an 'ordinary' mortal), which would mean that it couldn't use Songs anyway whilst the attunement was active. The way I'd been interpreting it was that it required the demon to have a role (hosts count), which Asmodeans DO -- because of their regular attunement. And in that case any inquisitive supernatural powers will pick up purely what the role should have. I assume that Azzie can recognise his own though. If you have a demono's heart you really should be able to say "Ah. That's my demon." Also, if a Cherub or Djinn (or Song of Affinity) had locked onto the demon prior to it using Humanity, I think it should still work! jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 21:10:07 -0700 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Gaing force by attribute improvement At 10:49 PM 12/3/99 -0400, you wrote: >Hey. What about the Demon of Steam, in Heaven and Hell? The Demon of Mummification, Triel (Baron of the Game) and the Demon of Fast Food also all have Strength 16. The Demon of Intrigue has Intelligence 14 and Charisma +5. All of them have errata. (http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/errata/heaven-hell.html) >>Even Archangels only have 12 in each characteristics. >? I don't remember seeing this anywhere. It may not be canon. Someone once said that Superiors aren't necessarily measured in Forces any more, and that's probably roughly equally accurate. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 23:15:26 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Tether of Destiny >(who has spent hours and hours and MUCH too much money in the Strand >bookstore, and thinks all bookstores are connected to Heaven, except the >kind run by Servitors of Andrealphus) Consider chain bookstores. Some are very good. Some are okay. And then, some suck. They sell nothing but bestsellers, diet books, and NBIs (non book items... everything from bookmarks to trading cards). Oh, and lots of bad remainders. Attended over by surly, ignorant staff who don't much like books or the people who read them. Plot of Kronos? Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 23:22:08 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: IN> The Rev cycle >Please check the errata before referencing something in an IN book, >especially one in the Revelations Cycle! All instances of characters >having attributes above 12 have been errata'd back into place. > > Yeah, that wasn't bad. >Can't see how ANY line editor let THAT one get through, though.... Mm. Well, the Rev cycle generally has a lot of rough edges. Some good stuff in there, too though. I don't generally buy into the "dis the Rev Cycle" trope; it was the first set of supplements, there were bound to be some bumpy bits. Anyhow, duly noted. Only reason I mentioned ol' Steamy was that he made a cameo appearance IMC. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 21:33:58 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> The Rev cycle This reminds me of something I've been wondering. Has the cycle method of providing supplements been abandoned? Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 23:33:55 -0600 From: "Matt W." Subject: IN> An Apology I'd just like to apologize for HTMLization of Nylius's post. It was unintentional and involved me cutting and pasting from an existing Word file, and originally format being retained and sent along as Ascii. So, for your viewing enjoyment, Nylius in Ascii format. And for future reference, (a) Nylius's native tongue is French and (b) I'm very allergic to Mother Hens, they make me break out in hives. =v=v= (Numinous Corpus Fangs smile) - - Matt W - = Balseraph of Dark Humor = + Seraph of Revelation + Nylius Ofanite Master of the Wind Angel of Rebellion Corporeal Forces - 5 Strength - 8 Agility - 12 Ethereal Forces - 5 Intelligence - 10 Precision - 10 Celestial Forces - 4 Will - 10 Precision - 6 Vessels: Human Male/6 Charisma +2, Human Female/3 Songs: Song of Attraction (Ethereal/4), Song of Form (Corporeal/3, Ethereal/3), Song of Healing (Corporeal/3), Song of Tongues (Corporeal/2), Song of Shields (Celestial/2), Song of Thunder/4, Numinous Corpus: Claws/4 Skills: Fighting/4, Dodge/3, Chemistry/3, Electronics/3, Ranged Weapon (Long Bow)/1, Ranged Weapon (Pistol)/3, Ranged Weapon (Rifle)/3, Ranged Weapon (SMG)/3, Lying/2, Throwing/2, Detect Lies/2, Survival (Forest)/2, Survival (Urban)/1, Survival (Jungle)/3, Fast-Talk/2, Emote/3, Language(English/2, French/3, Chinese/2, German/1, Russian/2, Arabic/1, Spanish/3), Running/2, Large Weapon (Broadsword)/1, Large Weapon(Halberd)/1, Computer Operations/2, Driving/1, Knowledge(Heavy Weapons Operation)/3, Knowledge(Armored Vehicle Operation)/4 Attunements: Mercurian of the Wind, Ofanite of the Wind, Passage, Swipe, Remote Control (from Jean), Smite (from Gabriel), Angel of Rebellion Special Rites: Spend one hour promoting rebellious (but ultimately beneficial) behavior, Kill a tyrant or overthrow an unjust government (+4 essence) Dissonance Conditions: Nylius (and any others he chooses) does not gain dissonance for not moving after three days if he is currently involved in a rebellion (of any sort) or is inciting one. He does gain dissonance for supporting "The Establishment" directly, though he can refrain from aiding a rebellious faction if he chooses, and he may call in other angels to handle the situation. Nylius is an enigmatic and passionate figure in the well-woven and colorful folktales of rumors of angels, and even demons. Confident, suave and irreverent, he embodies the inherent human condition of defiance of existing authority. He first made a name for himself when he stole a copy of the 88 Theses (Martin Luther's arguments against the Church), smuggled it off to a local printing press and distributed them about Europe in 14 days. Much to Dominic's chagrin, he later commented "It took God 7 days to make the world, it took me fourteen days to change it... I need to get faster." He always supported the concept of rebellion in order to create a better world, to knock down barriers forcefully if necessary, he was finally granted his wanted word after successfully masterminding the Magna Carta, a document which changed the very shape of government to come. Ever since, he has been wherever the oppressed were fighting the oppressors, the wronged fighting to make right, and so on and so forth. He was especially active in the American Revolution, though rumors fly whether he masterminded that entire thing or not, and the later Whiskey Rebellion he smiled at. He has had his share of failures though. He at first supported the Confederacy when it was supposedly finding for the state's rights, but withdrew his hat from their ring when it came apparent that the destiny of that revolt was becoming less and less likely, and its dark fate was more and more evident. And though he supported Kerensky's peaceful democratic revolution in Russia, he was appalled by the following Bolshevik one, and frequently speaks of his suspicion of the Game's tampering there. Strangely, he stills supports the tenents of Mao's revolt and whenever any challenged him on his support of such an atheist government, he just smiled knowingly, though he shed tears as he looked upon Teinamen Square that fateful night, like something had gone terribly wrong. Though he may seem violent, Nylius actually prefers more peaceful methods that avoid excessive destruction and bloodshed. He hoped with all his heart that the tenents of Gandhi would become the new paradigm of rebellion to come, but he quickly found it takes a certain type of culture to support such a tactic. However, the peaceful ways of the youth and race rebellions of this century have mainly been to his efforts, and he has taken the motto, "by the ballot box if we can, by the cartridge box if we must," to heart. Nylius holds a very strange position in celestial politics, and has gotten his share of enemies. Dominic is eternally suspicious of him, disturbed that the Seraphim Council would even grant the word of Rebellion, for is that not what Heaven is fighting, the fruits of the First Rebellion? David views him contemptously as one who creates needless cracks in the stonework of society. Laurence shares a strange relationship with him, for though he is disgusted by rebellion within the disciplined ranks, he has fought side by side with Nylius in righteous rebellions. As for his friends, Gabriel finds her band-brother Nylius impressive, full of inspiration and righteous fury for tyrants, and Jean finds him useful for more subtle rebellions, such as a new system of physics superseding the old, and new concepts coming to light. Novalis has refrained from passing judgement on the erratic angel, for she is not sure his tenents of peace before war really stick. Michael respects Nylius as a fellow warrior with the same passion for battle. Nylius's current activities are numerous, for there is much rebellion in the world. He has put his support behind some of the Mexican rebels in the northern provinces, as well supporting small groups of freedom fighters from around the world. His most controversial behavior has been standing in the Groves and the Halls of Worship, speaking freely his thoughts and questions on the nature of Heaven's army, the Seraphim Council, the Divine Inquisition and whatever else comes to mind, questioning all of it. Dominic and Laurence themselves have personally arrived at some of these sessions to put a stop to it, but have in the end been drawn into Nylius's gift for debate for change, though he does sometime tend to be outright belligerent, such as challenging Dominic to prove to him he wasn't a Balseraph. His rant against Uriel's Crusade and the anti-ethereal policies of Heaven got him in major trouble all over, especially with many of Uriel's former servants, but when anyone tries to inform him angels don't necessarily have freedom of speech, he replies, "Then we'll just have to change that." But there are many more rumored activities going on behind the scenes for the Ofanite. It is known he has had a drink or two or three with Lilith over the years, discussing the nature of each other's Words, but more insidious encounters are rumored. A few audiences with Malphas, even working with him, inciting riots for no apparent reason, supporting Communism, etc. However, the most incredible (and therefore most spoken of) rumor is that he has personally sat down with the Lightbringer himself, and discussed the nature of the very first rebellion. Nylius's physical appearance is that of a scruffy male in his early twenties, with a very cluttered appearance. His black leather jacket is marked with the French tricolor, a White Army officers badge, and various other doo-dads, and usually sports an irreverent or tie-dye t-shirt under it. One thing he is rarely without is his old Confederate army hat, gray and tattered, a reminder that not all rebellions turn out as they should. Should you meet him, he might be look like your average street kid, or look like he's been crawling around in the jungle for three days, depending on the circumstances. Author's Note: Nylius is intended as a powerful NPC for the characters to encounter, who can be as comic or serious or dark as you wish. He can be an excellent direct superior to Servitors of the Wind, as his special dissonance conditions, should he grant them, allows Windys to stay in one place, as long as they support his word. He can also be, given a few Soldiers and angels on his side, a good nemesis for servitors of some of the more order-minded Superiors (how many can you think of that would want his butt in a sling?). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 22:10:03 -0800 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: Re: IN> The Humanity Attunement Our spies report that on 05:13 PM 12/3/99 -0500, Elizabeth McCoy said: >To quote SJ in reply to my question: "You're right. Period." Now, I may be silly here ... but wasn't the idea to get another opinion on the topic, rather than an opinion on your personal power? We all know you're the editor, therefore you are right because the books will say what you want them to. Someone, after all, has to be in charge and deal with the mountains of headache-inducing things. Really, though, I don't think this answers the question. The response wasn't, "I have looked that things and see no reason to disagree." It's more like what one of the managers at my work told my immediate Superior (haha) "Whatever you say to them will be right and I'll support you. Even if you turn out to be wrong." It's a statement of policy on your authority, NOT anything regarding the issue at hand. Sean (who may have lunch with the Demon of Insubordination) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 01:18:04 -0500 From: Dan Weaver Subject: Re: IN> Gaing force by attribute improvement When an angel has such a long and worthy tradition of valor that it gets 6 Forces in every area, the Seraphim Council traditionally assigns the angel to the rotating Word of Getting It On With That Babe Novalis. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 22:18:56 -0800 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: Re: IN> Re: >:(Fluff) The End of Dominic, The Return of Eli Our spies report that on 09:08 PM 12/3/99 -0500, Ehrbar said: >And an Archangel using Asmodeus to speed the defeat of Hell *is* >creative. Perhaps Asmodeus should listen more carefully when Eli says >he can use anything as a weapon, and consider where this one is aimed. > I'll just tie this into my Why-Laurence-As-Commander arguement. Perhaps Eli knows Laurence is due to go out in a blaze of glory. But Michael has left command. And he can't get along with everyone. Minus Dominic, Eli could probably get along with anyone. Laurence has been turning the Armies of God on Earth into a Sword. But Michael doesn't use swords. Perhaps the new leader should be ... ELI! Able to Mercurian his way into everyones' hearts and use the Sword creatively. To create the paradise on earth that many religions say will come after the Last Battle.. Sean ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1446 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.