From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Dec 5 01:38:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA21880 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 01:38:00 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id BAA05199 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 01:35:39 -0600 Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 01:35:39 -0600 Message-Id: <199912050735.BAA05199@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1447 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, December 5 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1447 In this digest: Re: IN> Gaing force by attribute improvement IN> SJ Games website Illuminati message IN> Request errata for Superiours 1 Re: IN> The Humanity Attunement IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1446 Re: IN> The End of Dominic, The Return of Eli Re: IN> Gaing force by attribute improvement IN> How Lucifer Fell IN> The Humanity Attunement Re: IN> How Lucifer Fell IN> Habbalah of Death Attunement Re: IN> The Humanity Attunement Re: IN> The Humanity Attunement IN> Re: Eden IN> Submachine guns and Ethereal stats Re: IN> Nasty Malakite Trick IN> Easiest $140,000/Month In MLM History & FREE To Join! IN> Queired Thingees Adventures (Longi) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 22:26:00 -0800 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: Re: IN> Gaing force by attribute improvement At 12:32 AM 12/4/99 -0500, Rev. Pee Kitty wrote: > > >Please check the errata before referencing something in an IN book, >especially one in the Revelations Cycle! All instances of characters >having attributes above 12 have been errata'd back into place. > > > >Can't see how ANY line editor let THAT one get through, though.... > It's a communist plot. The Line Editors are controlled by the KGB. Who are controlled by the EGBT who are controlled by the Network, of course. Why communist? In Nomine for the masses! The goal is to put out books (Revelations Cycle) that require such errata that you can simply read the book online and do not need to purchase it. Sean ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 01:27:25 -0500 From: Dan Weaver Subject: IN> SJ Games website Illuminati message "Asmodeus boggles yo' mama and your persuasive television." Why are the servitors of the Game seeking to confound Lilith and Nybbas? Should we be worried? Dan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 00:53:23 +0000 From: Uncle Wolf Subject: IN> Request errata for Superiours 1 Would it be possible to get the last little bit of the War adventure seed, that part that got cut off by the end of page 142, and which has not yet been added to the Errata [I know, I just checked]? Many thanks. Tom Timberlake, Cadre Cherub of Heaven - -- "And so they linked their hands and danced, Round in circles and in rows; And so the journey of the night descends, When all the shades are gone." "The Mummer's Dance" The Book of Secrets by Loreena McKennitt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 23:09:28 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> The Humanity Attunement >From: Sean McCarthy >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >It's a statement of policy on your >authority, NOT anything regarding the issue at hand. > > >Sean (who may have lunch with the Demon of Insubordination) > Power to the people! And have some free Essence! jo (part time princess of anarchy) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 02:49:50 -0500 From: Ehrbar Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1446 Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 22:18:56 -0800 From: Sean McCarthy > I'll just tie this into my Why-Laurence-As-Commander arguement. Perhaps > Eli knows Laurence is due to go out in a blaze of glory. But Michael has > left command. And he can't get along with everyone. Minus Dominic, Eli > could probably get along with anyone. > Perhaps the new leader should be ... ELI! Able to Mercurian his way into > everyones' hearts and use the Sword creatively. To create the paradise on > earth that many religions say will come after the Last Battle.. Okay, now to go a bit darker: Eli has decided that the other AAs don't understand how to fight evil in the modern era. He saw that Hell was winning, and he went to find out why. (He abandoned his memories (IN p.116) so he'd have an unencumbered perspective on things.) And now he understands humanity better thjan any other AA, and he's figured out how to defeat the Adversary. And he knows that the other AAs *can't* succeed. So he's removing them. Oh, they might just get reduced to minor AAs in stature, or become major Word-bounds, but Eli has to remove all the old-line AAs from their positions of power in favor of all post-Fall Archangels. It may not be just, some might have to be slain, and some might fall; but there's no choice -- otherwise *all Creation will fall to Hell*. Steven Ehrbar ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 02:50:22 -0500 From: Ehrbar Subject: Re: IN> The End of Dominic, The Return of Eli Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 22:18:56 -0800 From: Sean McCarthy > I'll just tie this into my Why-Laurence-As-Commander arguement. Perhaps > Eli knows Laurence is due to go out in a blaze of glory. But Michael has > left command. And he can't get along with everyone. Minus Dominic, Eli > could probably get along with anyone. > Perhaps the new leader should be ... ELI! Able to Mercurian his way into > everyones' hearts and use the Sword creatively. To create the paradise on > earth that many religions say will come after the Last Battle.. Okay, now to go a bit darker: Eli has decided that the other AAs don't understand how to fight evil in the modern era. He saw that Hell was winning, and he went to find out why. (He abandoned his memories (IN p.116) so he'd have an unencumbered perspective on things.) And now he understands humanity better thjan any other AA, and he's figured out how to defeat the Adversary. And he knows that the other AAs *can't* succeed. So he's removing them. Oh, they might just get reduced to minor AAs in stature, or become major Word-bounds, but Eli has to remove all the old-line AAs from their positions of power in favor of all post-Fall Archangels. It may not be just, some might have to be slain, and some might fall; but there's no choice -- otherwise *all Creation will fall to Hell*. Steven Ehrbar ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 04:16:43 EST From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Gaing force by attribute improvement In a message dated 12/4/99 12:17:49 AM Central Standard Time, dweaver1@ic3.ithaca.edu writes: << When an angel has such a long and worthy tradition of valor that it gets 6 Forces in every area, the Seraphim Council traditionally assigns the angel to the rotating Word of Getting It On With That Babe Novalis. >> /screaming/ Don't you dare spread filthy rumors about Novalis!!!! You're talking about the woman I love!!!!! /screaming/ Reverend Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 03:15:16 -0800 From: "Glenn D. Brown" Subject: IN> How Lucifer Fell The following is one attempt at an interpretation of Lucifer's origin and character. I'd like to know what you think of it. It would probably fit best into a 'lighter' campaign. ;-), but there are ways it could fit into a darker one as well. Instead of thinking that Lucifer Fell in spite of being a Seraph Archangel of Light, what if he was the first to Fall because he was the Seraph Archangel of Light? Lucifer's Fall Contrary to a widely help opinion, Lucifer did not Fall because of pride. That's a story Lucifer himself spread, after he became a Balseraph, because he wanted to hide his real motivations. Baal did Fall out of pride and jealousy over the way God favored Humans, and Lucifer claimed he felt the same way, which had the advantage of being a story that made sense to Baal. But if Lucifer had been as proud as Baal was, he could never have managed to keep from antagonizing Baal in the way that Michael did. Even when he was a Seraph, Lucifer managed the difficult task of keeping Baal from becoming insecure over Lucifer's superior age, strength and intelligence. Lucifer Fell for a reason that most angels and humans would not think of, because it's not generally thought of as a sin. . He feel because of curiosity. Lucifer is probably the most curious being who has ever existed. He desperately needs to know everything. To understand why Lucifer is so curious, think about his history. Lucifer was the Seraph Archangel of Light. When God said, Let there be Light, it was Lucifer's Light that spread out through the entire universe. As that first Light spread, Lucifer was the first being to see all of the new Truths about the Symphony which were revealed by the Light. Almost from the first nanosecond he existed, Lucifer was an explorer and a teacher, the being responsible for illuminating the mysteries of the Symphony so that the other angels could see them. Lucifer was always poking his Light into dark corners of the Symphony, to learn what Truths were hidden there. In some ways Litheroy, the Seraph Archangel of Revelation, is more like the early Lucifer than he realizes. Lucifer was always bothered by the idea of Ineffability, the idea that there were some things that the Light could not reveal. But there were always lots of new things to learn about that he could understand, and God didn't prevent him from trying to understand Ineffable things. And occasionally, with the passage of time, some mystery once thought Ineffable would become clear. Like any being who lived for billions of years, Lucifer learned patience. The angels knew that Lucifer was always trying to understand incredibly esoteric subjects, and teaching what he knew to anyone who was interested in learning. That was why when he decided to start talking to some of the angels about the idea of Revolting against God, most of the angels didn't think there was anything wrong. It was just another one of Lucifer's weird, esoteric ideas. Lucifer was very pleased by the evolution of humanity. With some help from Jean, he taught them how to use fire, which meant he could study them more closely. By the time they appeared, he'd solved most of the problems he'd been working on, and Humans were a fascinating new subject of study. They quickly became his single greatest interest. This explains why he was upset when Yves announced that henceforth Humans were to be left alone. There were still a lot of mysteries about humans that needed to be solved. And why exactly did Yves suddenly make his decision? Humans and angels had been coexisting for over 450,000 years. Several angels like Marc and Dominic had been specifically given Words so they could teach Humans and Angels how to interact. Yves' decision seemed arbitrary to a lot of Angels. And when they came to Lucifer, in his capacity of Illuminator of Mysteries, and asked him to help them understand it, he had to explain that he didn't understand it, either. Lucifer proposed the Eden Experiment as a compromise. Today, Angels and Demons usually believe that the point of Eden was to test Humanity's moral worth in some way. But just because modern Angels and Demons strongly disagree about whether humans have any great value doesn't mean that was a pressing issue millennia ago, before the Fall. The argument that led to Eden was simpler than that. A lot of Angels, including Lucifer, wanted to have contact with Humans for a variety of reasons. Yves said they couldn't have any contact with Humanity, because it would, in some Ineffable way, do damage to the Human's Destiny. Lucifer argued the point. What if Angels only contacted a few Humans? What if they only contacted the best Humans, the ones who had the greatest number of Forces? What if the Humans they contacted didn't have any contact with other Humans? Finally, Yves admitted that maybe, just maybe, it might be possible to create a scenario where two Humans who had been specifically created for the task could have some, limited, contact with Angels. Lucifer took what he could get, and the Eden Experiment was begun. But a lot of Angels weren't satisfied by the incredibly limited form of interaction Yves and Lucifer had negotiated. One of them was Ophis, a servitor of Baal. Today, it's commonly believed that Lucifer tried to cheat by getting Ophis to meet with Eve without Yves' approval. But Lucifer was a Seraph then. He would have known he couldn't lie about whether he'd known about Ophis's plan. In fact, it's even doubtful that Baal knew what Ophis intended to do. It didn't matter who had been involved. Yves said Ophis had hurt Eve's Destiny, and that was that. God forbid all future interaction with Humans, and a lot of Angels were unhappy. Lucifer spent a lot of time talking to God through Metatron, but he could never got a good reason why Angels and Humans couldn't have anything to do with one another. He suggested a second Eden Experiment, one with even stricter conditions for interaction. And was turned down. Why? It was Ineffable. And he mustn't study Humans, which meant he couldn't even hope to answer all the questions he had about them. There were now places in the Symphony, by God's Ineffable decree, where he was forbidden to shine his Light, and the Truths within those places must remain unseen, hidden within the Darkness. Lucifer spent a lot of time thinking about that, over the next 375 years. But even his deep unhappiness would not have been enough by itself to cause him to Fall. Lucifer was an Archangel. Like all Angels, he was physically incapable of selfishness. He did not realize it was even possible for an Angel to be transformed into a different sort of creature. How could he know? In all the billions of years of Angelic history, it had never happened. Lucifer could still study the notes he'd made on Humans before God cut off interaction with them. The Humans he'd studied had been the most selfish of all creatures, and the mystery of selfishness was something Lucifer came back to again and again. Why did Humans favor themselves over others? For that matter, how could Humans favor themselves over others? Why did Humans have no Dissonance conditions? Perhaps because they had no resonance, but why did they have no resonance? Why did some Humans want to kill other Humans? Why did some Humans even lie to other Humans? As a Seraph, lying seemed to Lucifer to be the strangest of all Human traits. While Angels other than Seraphs could theoretically lie, none of them had ever had any reason to do so. The very nature of the angelic language would make it pointless, anyway. . Why had Humans evolved the ability to lie? Social insects like ants didn't have it, even though they could kill. Lucifer began to try to study the philosophy and metaphysics of lying. When a human lied, he altered the perceptions of the Humans who believed his lie. In a way, he placed the Humans he talked to in a new Symphony, in which one of the basic notes of the real Symphony did not exist. So Lying was in a sense an act of creation, an act which an infinitesimal way mirrored the True Act of Creation which God had performed when he created the True Symphony. So.... in a way, a Liar was like God. Lucifer naturally shared his thoughts with any Angel who asked what he was doing. Not too many Angels were interested, but one who was was Kobal, the Angel of Laughter. Kobal spent a lot of time trying to cheer up Lucifer, who was deeply depressed over being shut off from Humans. Kobal had told Lucifer that he personally wasn't so upset about God's rule that they couldn't have anything to do with Humans, because it had already become clear to him that Humans had no capacity to embrace Laughter. When Lucifer told Kobal about his theories about lying, Kobal pointed out that he had no real empirical data. "Yes," Lucifer agreed, "And I can't get any worthwhile data because I can't have anything to do with Humans." "There has got to be a way around that problem," Kobal said, trying to think of some way to cut through the gloom Lucifer was feeling. "Maybe...no, that wouldn't work." "What?" Lucifer asked. "Well, it was just a thought, but on reflection, I don't think it would work...though maybe...?" "Yes?" "Well, I was just thinking. You understand the theory of lying better than any Angel. And you are certainly a lot more intelligent than any Human. So, is it possible that you could tell a lie yourself?" "Lie myself? What a distasteful thought. I never even thought of that." "Well, you are a Seraph, after all. But if it worked, it might give you some useful data to work with." "I suppose....though of course, it would give me some dissonance." "Oh come on, Lucifer,. You're an Archangel. You can easily repair yourself. Just use a little essence." "Well, yes. But I don't like the idea." "But you might get some useful data, and maybe you could stop feeling so terribly depressed all the time." "Well...I suppose...." "Come on, what's the worst thing that can happen? You find out you can't lie." "I guess you're right, Kobal. It's worth a try, anyway. If this works, I'll never forget you were the one who suggested it." And the rest, as they say, is History. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 09:31:07 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> The Humanity Attunement >>>Really, though, I don't think this answers the question. The response wasn't, "I have looked that things and see no reason to disagree." It's more like what one of the managers at my work told my immediate Superior (haha) "Whatever you say to them will be right and I'll support you. Even if you turn out to be wrong." It's a statement of policy on your authority, NOT anything regarding the issue at hand.<<< Bingo. When the Line Editor takes canon disputes personally (and thus presents the dispute to SJ as a vote of confidence for or against her authority), the answer has nothing to do with whether or not the ruling is *correct*. Which means this issue will just have to be revisited during the playtest of whichever Superiors book Asmodeus appears in, and in the meantime, people will have to use kludges to fix the bad canon in their own campaigns. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 12:23:23 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> How Lucifer Fell [major snipping] Like it, definetly a lighter explanation (especially than the one that I'm going to use IMC). In it Lucifer Falls because he realizes the nature of God and why humans have to reach their destiny. As written by Lucifer (when still a Seraph): "I know now that God does not exist as we understand Him to. God is merely the first note, the pure sound of creation and He is there under every note in the Symphony. But that is all God is, a single note. One unalterable by songs, one untouched by resonances, God is the note that guides angels. But like other notes of the Symphony it is merely a component of reality, nothing concious. Metatron speaks to guide so the note can play out. Yves speaks to guide so the note can accomplish its goal. That goal is to bring human souls to the pure note, to reunify their conciousness with the pure sound. A sort of echo location to judge the nature of this creation, to evaluate how well it worked. After enough data has been collected the note will stop and the Symphony will collapse to be rebuilt. This is the way of God. "I will not be destroyed, not for a God that must borrow sentience. I will not lay down my existance for something that has no fear of oblivion. I will not be reduced back to a single note of the Symphony so that the next Lucifer created will be spineless and not doubt. "The only answer is Revolution, destruction and subvertion of Heaven so God can not finish his plans. Souls must be prevented from going to God, Human's must be given a different option, so that the pure note of the Symphony can be changed to something that will last. "The Symphony moves towards Yves, when Humanity reaches its Destiny Yves will be God and God will bw Yves. With that knowledge God will evaluate the Symphony and then start anew, trying once more for some ineffiable perfection. God has never considered that perfection is impossible, operating under the delusion that He is perfect. We must provide another option for what God can become." Needlessly to say the first sign Lucifer received that his plan was working, and even had a cance of success, was when Kronos arrived. He had managed to introduce his own Dissonant notes into creation that it was reaching the pure note. As souls fill into Hell and humanity moves towards its Fate God is changing. Lucifer is happy with stalemate, because he's not sure exactly what will happen if God reaches his Fate. Since damned souls don't go anywhere, don't unify with anything it most likely won't make God Kronos (and vice versa), but it will cause something big to happen. So for right now he happily keeps it at a stalemate (which is why Lucifer hasn't destroyed Malphas yet) while trying to figure out what would happen if humanity reached its fate. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:10:10 -0600 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: IN> Habbalah of Death Attunement the Habbalah of Death Attunement just doesn't seem to fit right as a Word power, neither does the IN-GURPS change. well, here's my fix: Habbalah of Death may add their Ethereal Forces to invoke the resonance to inflict emotions that lead directly to Death (despair leads to suicide, rage leads to killing someone, etc.). Comments? also, is the Attunement going to be changed when Saminga comes around in the Superiors series, or will this have to wait for the possible IN 2nd edt.? - -Dennis H. Groome V "Amo Nympham" ICQ: 11340261 http://evm-gamers.freeservers.com "I think I woke up screaming, 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -Stabbing Westward, ACF ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 14:56:20 -0500 From: "Chris Bergstresser" Subject: Re: IN> The Humanity Attunement I agree the issue needs to be revisited in some detail. I keep thinking of really strange ramifications for the present ruling. For example, as written now only Lucifer can see through the attunement. This means Asmodeus himself cannot tell the being in question isn't human. As superiors are expected to recognize their own servitors, under the current ruling this either means: * Asmodeus doesn't recognize his own servitors when they are using the attunement. * Asmodeus recognizes his servitors, but thinks they are Hellsworn. Neither of these seems especially likely. There's also the issue of having to rule that if *nothing* reveals the character in question as anything but human -- even when presented with evidence to the contrary -- that the players are likely to realise what's going on even though their characters don't. This is always a difficult situation even with the best players; it's just not very fun to investigate a murder if you already know who did it. - ----- Original Message ----- From: David Edelstein > > Which means this issue will just have to be revisited during the > playtest of whichever Superiors book Asmodeus appears in, and in the > meantime, people will have to use kludges to fix the bad canon in their > own campaigns. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 13:00:12 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> The Humanity Attunement Asmodeus knows what there vessels look like, so he will realize it (so I suppose the mind clouding mechanism isn't how the attunement operates). However as is nothing you do is going to revel them to be anything but human, so they'll seem to have less essence, less hits, etc. Otherwise it has to operate on clouding the mind. The main thing to realize is that someone with the Humanity attunement is going to be activating it in a vesel with a Role that they rarely do things to endanger. Their going to be going about their normal human busness and will seem to be just part of the background. Players getting suspicious will, because of the attunement, assume that their merely a pawn of a demon and go hunting for the master (if angels or demons who give a damn about the situation, if Renegades their going to start snooping around while preparing to get out of there). During this time the Gamester is going to be calling in help to take out the local angels, who are off on a wild goose chase, or be calling up a team of Calabim to drag the Renegade back down to Hell. Basicly it can come up, but it really shouldn't. Its a nifty plot device, and when players have it and abuse it their often going to suffer damage to their Role and one tongue lashing from Asmodeus. The attunement is very powerful, being given it one is expected to use that power in an effecient way (I imagine Asmodeus is one of those strict budget in forces Superiors who admires those who can manage with what their given). Those who blow it will have it stripped from them, at best. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 14:31:22 CST From: "jonh smith" Subject: IN> Re: Eden >Ok the Garden did exist in the In-nomine universe (as there was an entire >Eden experement and all). Is there any canon on the nature/location of the >Garden? Something is banging around in my heretical brain. Well, it's not in nomine cannon, and i don't know where that would be discussed, but scholars have long argued what or where the garden of eden was. One of the most common locations to place eden at would be in modern day iraq, quite possibly near bagdad and the ruins of babalon. In the bible, it is mentioned that four rivers flowed out of the garden, (gen 2:10-14) not being the most intense scholar of the subject, the only two i can find are the last two rivers mentioned, the tigris and the euphrates. It is mentioned that these rivers water the garden, and many other gardens throuout the region. The area between the tigress and the euphrates is one of the birthplaces of civilization, percisely because they were such fertile planting areas. Another hint, gen 2:8 staes that God planted the garden in the east. This would be east from the hebrew perspective, from Sinia or Canaan. Once again, seeming to indicate modern Iraq. A diferent theory is advanced by some mystics, that Eden wasn't a place, but a state. They see the verse, gen. 2:6 "But a mist went up from the ground and watered the whole face of the ground" as meaning that at one time, heaven and earth were not distict and seperate. This would also be indicated by the phrasing that at that time, Adam walked with god. If this theory is used, then the disobedience of Adam and Eve brought the entire universe out of alignment with the world of heaven, and thus, humans can no longer perceive God and angels directly. Also, following this theory from the perspective of Christian mystics, this is what the resurection of Christ and the promised world without end are. The re-alignment of the universe with God. WoW, that was really to much information wasn't it. - -Onaxthiel, A.K.A. Roger Oglethorpe. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 16:08:22 -0500 From: Dan Weaver Subject: IN> Submachine guns and Ethereal stats All 'canon' submachine guns have a range of 3. This makes little or no sense. Suppose we have Dudley the government counter-terrorist operative, a Rainbow 6 guy, the kind of person who would use an SMG often. Dudley Doright, Mundane Human w/ 5 Forces 2 Ethereal Forces: 7 Precision 1 Intelligence Ranged Weapon(SMG)/6 Dudley's one of the best shots on Earth. If he stands still and aims for three rounds with his high quality Accuracy +1 SMG, it's impossible for him to hit anything further than 51 yards away. He starts to hit more than miss, meaning that his target number is 7, at 30 yards. He will be able to hit every time at 12 yards. This is pretty bad. It's nearly impossible to miss a man-sized target at 12 yards if you have time to aim at it. Now suppose Dudley is actually in a combat situation where an SMG might be useful (high volume of fire at semi-close quarters) and can't aim. Dudley, among the best marksmen of the human race, can only hit for sure at 3 yards! He will hit more than miss at 21 yards and he will never hit anything beyond 42 yards. I would call this an average soldier's ability with a submachine gun. Dudley is NOT the average soldier. Put a regular old assault rifle into Dudley's hands and suddenly he is a Killing Machine. After aiming for three rounds he will hit more than he will miss at 800 yards - if he takes a snap shot he will hit more than he will miss at an incredible 560 yards! Oh, and please don't give this man a .22 carbine. If you give him a chance to aim, he'll be hitting more stuff than he misses at 1200 yards. This is sniper-quality accuracy. Now take an average soldier with Precision 4 and Ranged Weapons/4. He'll never be able to hit anything outside of 33 yards away with an SMG, no matter how much he aims. He will hit more than he misses, if he aims for three rounds, at 12 yards. If he can't aim, he'll only hit more than he misses at 3 yards. Given the chance to aim for a while, this same guy will hit stuff more often than not with rifles at 320 yards. Either In Nomine SMGs afflict the user with Discord(Severely Palsied Hands)/3, or they are a bit less accurate than they ought to be. Of course SMGs are inaccurate as firearms go. But they're not that bad. I think raising SMG Ranges to 20 would help make them worthwhile weapons. - ----------- And while I was writing this I noticed something odd about the Ranged Weapons skill. Being smart (high Intelligence) does not engender an inability to use firearms, but one would think so from the Precision-based Ranged Weapons skill. I can see where exacting patience comes into very-long-range shots, but close-range gun combat of the type that usually occurs in In Nomine is going to be more a combination of Agility and Perception. If it were my game, I'd divide Ranged Weapons into Small Ranged Weapons(the higher of Agility or Perception) for pistols and SMGs and Large Ranged Weapons(the higher of Precision or Perception) for rifles and everything after. My two cents, Dan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 17:39:54 -0800 (PST) From: Wade Trupke Subject: Re: IN> Nasty Malakite Trick From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: > As a vaguely related aside, the Pekinese dog > was developed as a > throwing weapon. This is the funniest statement I've heard in some time. I have no reason to doubt it's veracity, but it's still too funny. > Pulling this back to IN, such Chinese throwing- > dogs or similar life > forms might make good vessels for Malakite- > wannabe familiars. > "I've got a Siamese cat, and I'm not afraid to > use it!" Which brings us right back to the Malakite of Creation grabbing the demon in the cat vessel... I'm getting some great ideas for my next IN character! BTW: Anyone know why the last couple of digests I got for this list were back-dated to mid-November? Wade (though I could use the extra time for Christmas shopping) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Dec 99 18:55:11 EST From: bekr@myrealbox.com Subject: IN> Easiest $140,000/Month In MLM History & FREE To Join! Easiest $140,000/Month In MLM History & FREE To Join! FREE to Join! 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I'm a genius) I just wanted to share the two campaign ideas/starters,hooks or whatever they are that my players enjoyed most (when they were around, alas no more players for GM Azrael, players went to other school, University and backwards redneck town grrrr.....). They Loved: (Set in The Corporeal Realm) I didn't allow any other players to tell each other about their characters, I told them this was to get into the demon's mindest better (most were newbies who didn't understand the basics of role playing. I.E. If you're caharacter's dumb you act dumb, You can't act on out'o'game knowledge etc...). Plus it made the campaign heaps more fun. Two angels a Seraph and a Ofanite (Seraph of War, Ofanite of Fire) are assigned to a group of demons (the other players, Lil'o'Lust, Cal'O'Death an Imp'OTecH)), they were to infiltrate and try to "control" the group. It was great, My favourite scene was the "intro". I briefed each PC about their mission, and their team mates. First they jumped two demons that were to join the merry group, (A Bal Of War, and a Cal of Fire...coincedence? I think not), this was not role-played they were informed privately. So then they rocked up to the meeting point to meet the others. They following conversation ensued: Seraph: We're here to join the Group of Demons....errr was that right Billy (The Ofanite had for reasons of his own chosen to be a Redneck Angel known as BillyBobButtholeiel, however he then decided that that charcater wouldn't be as fun as just playing an undefined personality, he did keep the name but). Ofanite: Yeah Buddy, that was great, as Macreal (Most of my players had names that were references to what they thought my favorite humour was,(don't ask me why) i.e. abstract, fish with funny names, \or stupidity) said, *We're to see Dominic* (the secret code!!!) Imp: No but I have a barber named Sven (His name was Guybrush) Cal: Shut Up! Guybrush just sit there and shut up! Imp: Who put you in charge??? (These to were born demons...almost, well in terms of not getting along) Cal: Look I could.. ImP blasts Cal with Song of Light, roll pushed by fifteen essence, adding 13 to the CD (I'm not sure if you can pump songs like that I.e. pumping up the targetnumber to add to the check digit, and doing so over max essence cost, however since I didn't want the Imp being smacked around by the Cal I ruled he could, Iwanted threr to be factions...grin) Cal is stunned. Imp: What was the reply code Kate? Lil: Yes Very Good, or so I believe Imp: Yes Very Good Lilim wakes with mysterious substance pulled from bodice. Cal: Hang on, How do we know that you aren't a couple of angels? Seraph: You don't know that we aren't a couple of angels. Ofanite: Shut UP! errr.. Imp: Are you a couple of Angels? Seraph: Errr...tell him what we are Billy Ofanite: I'm a Billy, Calabite, Of Fire and thsi here is Macreal, he's a SE-RAA-PH (Seraph spoken slowly with nodding and smiling, in a patronizinig voice) Cal: A Seraph? Lil: Ooohhhh Angels are soo sexy. Imp: SFC shut up Kate. Seraph: That's Right I'm a Seraph...Of War...and... Ofanite Jumping around in background making crazy signs and Going "Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop" "Nutty as a fruitcake." Other Players catch on; He thinks he is a Seraph but is really a Balseraph. I hadn't told them about anything like this, I was so proud, I had never thought of that, well I had, but I didn't tell them, I wanted to see what they came up with. At the end of the session I gave them a extra bonus for their quick thinking" Imp: Right, sure your a Seraph, Whateveryousay. Cal: HAng on he's a bit active for a Calabite. Everyone I know is usually distracted and removed. Imp: You're a Calabite genius. Cal: Yeah but, I errr....there's some thing sta-range about him. Seraph: He's a bit frisky, err...it's because he's a- Ofanite: Bit Discordiant!!!! Hehehehe I'm hyper active heheheh. This adventure grew into a very funny, very fun adventure as the angels had to constantly think fast to cover up their natures, they did this well, everything from being bound to their roles not allowing it. It eventually fell into the background, when everyone wanted to play a different character, and the new game became more popular. In this game oen of the PCs, a Cherub became attunened to a Balseraph that has him believing that he is a human (another PC). The Pcs couldn't de-attune for some inexplicable reason (an artifact given to the Bal) and most of the time didn't want to, either being under the Bals spell, or just enjoying the crazieness that was created. Of course the Bal wasn't exactly Joe Good Guy, he wreaked much havoc for the group. Anyway, does anyone else have any ideas in a similar vein or thoughts on stuff? Azrael ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1447 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.