From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Dec 8 08:25:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA26844 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:25:31 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id IAA07792 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:22:58 -0600 Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:22:58 -0600 Message-Id: <199912081422.IAA07792@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1452 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, December 8 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1452 In this digest: Re: IN> The Humanity Attunement and Seraphim Dissonance Re: IN> Please, Archangel Beth, Could You Reveal the Future? IN> Weird Idea (Re: Moral Ambiguity) Re: IN> Why GM's Need Common Sense and a Backbone Re: IN> IN:> Eli's Angels Re: IN> Weird Idea (Re: Moral Ambiguity) IN> Calabim of Fire (Re: Moral Ambiguity) IN> KK (Re: Request errata for Superiours 1) IN> Satellite Owners! Must See! Re: IN> Boom Re: IN> Moral Ambiguity Re: IN> Moral Ambiguity IN> Virtual Tethers (was Re: Boom) IN> What Demons are Really After Re: IN> Boom Re: IN> Moral Ambiguity Re: IN> Boom IN> Lucifer, Archangel of Temptation Re: IN> Weird Idea (Re: Moral Ambiguity) Re: IN> What Demons are Really After Re: IN> IN:> Eli's Angels IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1451 IN> Re: virtual tethers IN> Virtual Tethers Re: IN> Virtual Tethers IN> Sale ! Norton Utilities 2000 ? Re: IN> Sale ! Norton Utilities 2000 ? Re: IN> Virtual Tethers Re: IN> Virtual Tethers Re: IN> Moral Ambiguity ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 18:31:04 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> The Humanity Attunement and Seraphim Dissonance At 11:20 AM -0800 12/6/99, Jo Hart wrote: >>From: Elizabeth McCoy >>Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > >> >Does an Impudite become dissonant if he "kills" a Gamester? >> >>Yes. >> >> >Does a Mercurian become dissonant if he punches a Gamester? >> >>Yes. > >Does the dissonance vanish as soon as the Gamester lets the Humanity >attunement drop? If the celestial finds out about it, then it would probably fall into the category where the GM decides if it counts as "you made it right" for losing dissonance. (I'm a cruel sort, and don't think that Mercurians should get to "make it better" and lose dissonance, unless they _REALLY_ go whole-hog on making it better -- the 10 Essence contrition bit from the main book...) If the celestial killed the Gamester under the impression that the Gamester were human, then the dissonance would probably be harder to get rid of with in-game stuff than if they did it by accident ("demon!"), heard the bong, went "AUGH WHAT HAVE I DONE?", and then later found out it was a demon after all. Um. I think that boils down to "it depends on the circumstances, but there's a good chance, if the celestial finds out that the demon was using a special attunement to become temporarily 'human.'" - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 18:36:23 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Please, Archangel Beth, Could You Reveal the Future? At 1:57 PM -0800 12/7/99, Glenn D. Brown wrote: >Okay, I know the future is Ineffable, and I don't know how far in the future >SJG has finalized its plans for the Superiors series of books. But is there >any information publicly available on which Superiors are likely to be >expanded on in 2000, and maybe in 2001, as well? Um, the rest of them. O:> Okay, here's as much as I know... The drafts are generally coming in 1-2 months apart, which means they'll (barring Interventions, printing disasters, art disasters, the Game or Judgment breaking in and stealing the computers, etc.) go out about that spacing. Superiors 2 has gone out of playtest, so it ought to be early January, at the worst. I think. (The printing and shipping side of things is very arcane to me; don't quote that as anything like an official date!) Unless I miss my count, there are 5 more Superior books in the works. (Superiors 3 is in playtest, so I'm not counting it in that tally.) So I _think_ the rest of them will get into print in 2000, with maybe one trailing along in early 2001. But, well, don't quote me. Murphy lives... >that Superiors Three is in playtesting, but alas, I don't yet have a Pyramid >subscription. For shame! O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 18:44:23 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Weird Idea (Re: Moral Ambiguity) At 5:16 PM -0700 12/6/99, Ben Glickler wrote: >But they're fighting for the idea that God is >wrong, humanity is a waste of time, and angels (which they will once again >be, if they win) have every right to treat the world as a playground. Now _that_ is a funky, funky, funky concept -- not that the demons might not call themselves "angels," or whatever, but the notion that if Lucifer could make his (presumed) Lie the Truth... It would be True. He would rewrite the Symphony in his own image (as the ethereals say God did), and... there would be no demons. Only angels who know that the little monkeys are interesting, but not their equals... I think my brain just broke, trying to see this rippling mirror... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 18:56:02 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Why GM's Need Common Sense and a Backbone At 7:22 PM -0600 12/6/99, Benjamin Acosta wrote: >From: David Edelstein > >> The following items are not permissible as weapons: Grains of > salt. Strained peas. Snowflakes. Molecules. > >"But if I throw this molecule just right, I can split that atom and ...." [*] >Of course, that's with a CD of 6 :-) Any GM who lets a PC use Abracadabra or Transubstantation to create antimatter... ...deserves what happens. (I sometimes semi-seriously ponder whether it might be worthwhile to find a place for the following box in 2/e: There are occasionally times when every possible interpretation of a rule for a resonance, attunement, or Distinction cannot possibly be covered in less than several pages. In such cases, the GM should decide in his own mind what the intent of the ability is, and when a player attempts to pervert the wording to something blatently not intended, cackle madly, congratulate the player's imagination, and say, "NO." Hitting the player with fuzzy car-dice afterward is optional. It would probably be taken the wrong way, though. O:p ) [*] (And please don't make a habit of it, or the next thing we'll see is a mongo picture of Laurence done entirely in "."s. And that, y'all, will draw down major wrath.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 19:01:41 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> IN:> Eli's Angels At 11:06 AM -0600 12/7/99, Wade Hursman wrote: >I've got a question that I haven't been able to answer by looking through my >books, or the Errata. Anyone happen to know the answer? > >Do Angels of Creation in service to any other Superior, get the choir >attunement for that Archangel automatically? Or do they have to earn it? They have to earn it -- to quote from the book: "They retain the powers listed below and get no new abilities unless their new masters grant them Rites or attunements -- which rarely happens." (Last sentence of 6th full paragraph (counting the "The world is" quote) of Eli's 2-page spread. See also the Distinctions paragraph.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 17:09:18 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> Weird Idea (Re: Moral Ambiguity) > True. He would rewrite the Symphony in his own image (as the ethereals > say God did), and... there would be no demons. Only angels who know that > the little monkeys are interesting, but not their equals... Get this -- they're not demons because they are nasty, they are nasty because they are demons. And why are they demons? Because the Symphony tossed 'em out when they rose up against God. After all, they managed to exist, thinking humans not their equals, before the Fall. As angels. If they win, and control the Symphony, would, for example, a Balseraph still be a Balseraph? Or would they become Seraphim again, but permitted to treat humanity as they would an animal, or a chair, or a concept? On the other hand, it never even occured to the original angels that they *could* Fall. It never even occured to Seraphim that they *could* lie. Once that knowledge is available, is it possible to return to a state where everyone is an angel again? It's like eating from the tree of knowledge. On a side note... You can be declared Outcast without ever having a note of dissonance. In rebelling against God, these first Outcasts were created. Did the first demons follow shortly thereafter, as the angels expressed their confusion (Elohim), rage (Ofanim), denial (Seraphim), or resentment (Cherubim) at being thrown out? Did the first Impudites form on the rationalization that sure, we can hurt humans, but don't kill em? And all it takes is a human-resenting Kyriotate a few moments as an Outcast and he's a Shedite... > --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor > GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ Ben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 19:19:05 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Calabim of Fire (Re: Moral Ambiguity) At 2:03 PM -0700 12/7/99, Ben Glickler wrote: >Belial's servants are forbidden to be "burned by their own fires", >metaphorically and literally. If a Calabite of Fire was forced to suck up a >point of dissonance due to a failed resonance check, would he get ANOTHER >point of dissonance due to his Fire dissonance requirements? I'd be inclined to think so -- which serves them right, for adding twice their Corporeal Forces to the check digit of successful resonance rolls, _and_ causing no disturbance when they resonance-break something! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 19:19:07 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> KK (Re: Request errata for Superiours 1) At 6:43 PM -0400 12/7/99, Douglas Muir wrote: >But one imagines that word would get around after a while. And there are >obvious ways to deal with a character like that without killing her... >right away, anyhow. Just be careful what you _NEED_ to do to her... (Celestial Motion, for teleporting away sunglasses...) She's a twink, depends on having infinite vessels, and is really never meant to be anything but an NPC. And now that she (or someone like her) has appeared in an adventure seed that you can take or leave, the civilized world need not fear she'll ever appear in print again. You can all go "whew!" now. If you go to the INC, she's in the Rogues' Gallery, as far as I know. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: 07 Dec 99 2:30:39 PM From: E8ZPVJKVJ@yahoo.com Subject: IN> Satellite Owners! Must See! THIS IS A ONE TIME MAILING - YOU WILL NOT RECEIVE ANOTHER You were sent this email because it was believed it would benefit you in some way If you do not want this email - simply delete it - no reason to have a cow about it. TEST YOUR SATELLITE CHANNELS - DO THEY WORK? TEST THEM AND SEE Your satellite receiver - if you have Direct Tv - came with a little credit card sized programming card known as a smart card. We can, for testing purposes only, program your card to receive any and all channels offered by your satellite company without you having to pay an additional monthly fee. You will receive blacked out sporting events, pay per views, premium channels and unlimited, unrestricted access to ANY channel offered by your satellite company after we program your card. We can only program H cards. These are the cards that say "DSS ACCESS CARD" on them and they are blue. We can NOT program Dish Network cards. This service is provided for testing purposes only. To receive an order form and for more informaton - Please Call 1-770-621-5852 (24hours a day, 7 days a week). MENTION OFFER CODE 1206OE TO ENSURE PROPER ROUTING ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 19:15:39 -0600 (CST) From: Benjamin Acosta Subject: Re: IN> Boom From: EDG > At 07:22 PM 12/6/99 -0600, you wrote: > > > >BBBBBBBBBBB OOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOO MMM MMM [] > > Pet peeve #5. (I think this is in the FAQ too.) > > ASCII art is NOT kosher. Period. End of question. > > Thanks. Oops. Didn't know about that one. I originally was just going to go "BOOM!" but decided to make it bigger to avoid the 1/3rd rule. Sorry about that. I'll go do some work in a Tether now. Obligitory In Nomine Content Are Virtual Tethers possible? Could certain websites, or locales in cyberspace if your playing in a future campaign, become Tethers, letting you work off dissonane while working on them, and allowing travel between the Celestial Realm and any computer it is on? Ben, Elohite of Eli Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 21:43:06 -0500 (EST) From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: Re: IN> Moral Ambiguity Richard Gant wrote: > >On Mon, 6 Dec 1999, Ben Glickler wrote: > >> Sure, Uriel was a butcher, but he also got fired. > >Alternately, a case can be easily made that he was *rewarded*, not fired. >Think about it: Uriel was called into the presence of his God, the goal >of most religious individuals, and the destination of all who achieve >their Destinies. Hell is the place of punishment, not Heaven. Yup. IMC the angels agree that whatever God did, Uriel was in fact rewarded. The argument is over why she was rewarded. The militant archangels (who don't care about the ethereals) believe Uriel was rewarded for her elimination of a grave threat to mankind and the universe. The ones who didn't like the Purity Crusade think she was rewarded for seeing the evil she had done and repenting of her sins to God. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 21:44:03 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Moral Ambiguity About Uriel, generally IMCs he is generally regarded as having been on the verge of Falling and sequestered/destroyed by God to prevent other Malakim from following. The reason is that he destroyed Interceders, how heaven IMCs refer to the ethereal beings that worship God on behalf of mortals worshiping them. Despite the fact they believe and worshiped in the same God as Uriel he destroyed them becasue they weren't God's direct creations. On the thread in general demons are (as presented in forwards In-Nomine) always going to seem nasty and vile to human morality. They think we're worthless shaved apes that are little better than essence batteries and toys. A nice demon isn't going to be serving Hell well at all, and an angel who is cruel to humans is missing the point. On the other hand you can run a campeign where servitors of Gluttony provide food to the hungry, where Dark Humour points out the problems with modern society and where Lust, well Lust's just fun. Basicly Hell's evil can be presented as secondary to their Rebellion, a seperation from the morality of Heaven which is probably hypocritical (why say they are special and forbid them this?). They will still be selfish but they will have the capacity to actually truly like some people. Anyway this is my second ramble in less than 10 minutes or so, which means I'm full of essence and its time to go do some productive stuff with it. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 00:47:33 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: IN> Virtual Tethers (was Re: Boom) At 20:15 -0500 12/7/99, Benjamin Acosta wrote: >Are Virtual Tethers possible? Could certain websites, or locales in >cyberspace if your playing in a future campaign, become Tethers, letting >you work off dissonane while working on them, and allowing travel between >the Celestial Realm and any computer it is on? An interesting idea. I wouldn't say it's unreasonable, but given the *very* short history of the Web, I don't expect any have formed, yet. I suspect the Tether itself would center on the database forming the web site (or even page); since this could be replicated on many caches, it would probably either wander randomly among them, or *all* the copies would be part of the Tether (basically making it forked at the corporeal end, rather than the other end). In the latter case, any individual copy would probably be a *very* weak Tether. The notion of a Tether with many presence points in the corporeal would worry me as a GM; I don't think I'd do that. And if it formed at any computer that even *displayed* the site, that would make it immensely powerful -- I don't think I'd ever do that. (Though I do find the notion of a portal site to Heaven or Hell amusing... relievers or imps and gremlins popping out of, or diving in to, the screen.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 23:53:17 -0600 From: "Matt W." Subject: IN> What Demons are Really After It has been said, in the Moral Ambiguity discussion, that demons are out to destroy mankind, that they want to be angels again with the Big L in charge, they want to drive the universe to their fate, they are out to make your life a living Hell. I have to say, this is a big no. Mr. Joe Average demon doesn't care. That's what Lucifer wants. That's what the Princes want. Maybe even some of the higher royalty want that. They have their eye on the ultimate goal of conquest. The average demon doesn't give a flying monkey brain. There are only two things which really drive a demon to action: 1. Increase the relative comfort and power of my existence 2. Survive! Survive! Survive! Survive! The reason they seem that they are out to subvert the world and corrupt everything is that the deck is stacked against them by the Princes (who are out for that), through dissonance conditions, the Infernal Inquisition, etc. etc. In their Heart of Hearts, they could care less about the throne of Heaven and all that. They just want to live their eternal existences in relative comfort, and usually this means Rank, Power and Priveledge, and the only way to do this is by boot-licking and butt-kissing, and doing what your Prince tells you. The want to just create evil does *not* drive a demon. The selfish desire for a better life than the rest of my peers and to remain intact and breathing, that is what drives them. Demons aren't evil. They are just self-centered and selfish. The Princes, Lucifer, yep, they are evil (with some exceptions). Demonic Joe Sixpacks are just selfish little flunkies. Then again, there are some who just enjoy the Hell out of their jobs (but they are Fallen, not Hellborn, usually, probably, most of the time, I'll stop now). = Matt W = ++ Seraph of Revelation ++ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 00:06:31 -0600 From: Shadowstar Subject: Re: IN> Boom At 7:15 PM -0600 12/7/99, Benjamin Acosta wrote: >Are Virtual Tethers possible? Not technically, if you go by Canon. But whatever you want, you can do. >Could certain websites, There indeed is a small Tether to the Media, in "Silicon Valley" California (one of 4 such infeneral tethers in the South (San Francisco) Bay). . . And it was created around the machine that houses a popular website. . . It's called: The Instant Informer Hub (Liber Castellorum, p. 105). >or locales in cyberspace if your playing in a future campaign, become Tethers, Again, this has not appeared in Canon, but you're free to do anything in your games. Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centurytel.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://home.centurytel.net/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Dec 99 14:39:29 PST From: "Azrael" Subject: Re: IN> Moral Ambiguity > The argument is over why she was rewarded. I didn't know that Uriel was female, is this canon or just speculation? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 00:06:31 -0600 From: Shadowstar Subject: Re: IN> Boom At 7:15 PM -0600 12/7/99, Benjamin Acosta wrote: >Are Virtual Tethers possible? Not technically, if you go by Canon. But whatever you want, you can do. >Could certain websites, There indeed is a small Tether to the Media, in "Silicon Valley" California (one of 4 such infeneral tethers in the South (San Francisco) Bay). . . And it was created around the machine that houses a popular website. . . It's called: The Instant Informer Hub (Liber Castellorum, p. 105). >or locales in cyberspace if your playing in a future campaign, become Tethers, Again, this has not appeared in Canon, but you're free to do anything in your games. Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centurytel.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://home.centurytel.net/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 00:21:37 -0600 From: "Matt W." Subject: IN> Lucifer, Archangel of Temptation In Nomine, in its canon form, is for all intents and purposes structured around the Christian way of thinking of the war between angels and demons. Lucifer is a big meany who is out to corrupt humanity and send them all screaming to Hell because he is just that kind of guy. However, the people responsible for this entire thing, the Jews, had a very different way of looking at it, and I'm glad the GMG got around to pointing this out. In the Jewish faith, there was never anything such as the Fall, demons are little snits who go around messing with people's lives, and most importantly of all, LUCIFER WORKS FOR GOD. Period. He's an angel, he always was an angel, he will continue to be an angel. He just has a really wiffy job. He's the Accusing Angel, the Tempter of Humanity, and so on and so forth. It worked like this. God was sitting back one day, looking down at the world and foreseeing the future of humanity. He had set up the world as a test, a test of faith, to bring out the best in all men. But for the purity and worth of humans to truly be tested, they had to be tempted by evil. However, God being a being of universal good, could not commit evil himself. Or maybe he could, but he gained dissonance if he did, and he didn't like that. He realized that it wasn't really purity and faith if humanity was never given a chance to be impure and unfaithful. Ever here the phrase, "Some people chose to be chaste, others are forced into it"? Same with every other virtue. So God thought for a little while, waved his hand, and poof, Lucifer appeared. Lucifer, haven't been nonexistent a few moments ago, quirked his brow and looked at him and said, "Well, what is it?" "You are to be called Lucifer, and you shall make life a true test for all the men and women of Earth," God said, "You will be unique amongst the angels, for while others are not capable of evil, you will be, so you may serve your purpose. You have free will, Lucifer, so you may test humanity." Lucifer smiled, having his purpose, and went about his task with passion. Lucifer doesn't like it when he wins. It is his nature to fight as hard as he can to win, but whenever he successfully corrupts humanity, he feels the Symphony losing a great player. He is not the member of any particular choir, since their dissonance conditions would impair his ability to function as the Accusing Angel. He is not evil, he is just capable of evil in a manner most angels find disturbing, since he has to be able to commit evil to encourage evil. He knows he is paradoxical, and he likes it that way a little. Encouraging evil to help God's plan fits his strange sense of humor. It makes sure only the truly faithful and pure ascend, not just the lucky few who avoided temptation. Lucifer makes sure *nobody* avoids temptation. He makes life a gauntlet which you must run through again and again until you do it right. THE ARCHANGEL OF TEMPTATION IN THE OFFICIAL IN NOMINE UNIVERSE There are many ways to place the Archangel of Temptation in standard IN. 1) Change his name to something else, and have him be a strange enigmatic figure, lurking in the background, much like the Angel of Death. 2) Have him really be Lucifer. Lucifer didn't fall, his nature and word were changed by God. The Lord of Lies thing is just an act to keep the demonic horde off the scent. Perhaps the Word of Temptation doesn't stop with humans, but must also be applied to angels. 3) Remove Lucifer as the Leader of Hell, and have him operate blatantly in Heaven (this is closer to the original Jewish lore). The Demons and Demon Princes are not true adversaries to Heaven, just meddling spirits and evil powers that need to be kept out. Of course, there are a lot of other ways of shoving him in. Any ideas? = Matt W = + Balseraph of Dark Humor + Who has had way too little sleep the last few days.... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 21:33:35 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Weird Idea (Re: Moral Ambiguity) >You can be declared Outcast without ever having a note of dissonance. In >rebelling against God, these first Outcasts were created. >Did the first demons follow shortly thereafter, as the angels expressed >their confusion (Elohim), rage (Ofanim), denial (Seraphim), or resentment >(Cherubim) at being thrown out? Did the first Impudites form on the >rationalization that sure, we can hurt humans, but don't kill em? And all >it takes is a human-resenting Kyriotate a few moments as an Outcast and he's >a Shedite... This is why I like using the Dark Choirs and Bright Bands. Some angels walked out of heaven without Falling, they just agreed. Some demons freaked over what had happened to them and repented but were kept as curiosities. They didn't automaticly act in a way to become demons, though all of the 'Fallen' went Dark (IMC their hearts remain in Heaven unshattered, but totally without light). Also IMC Metatron had (and Yves has) the power to do the ultimate Outcasting, inflicting dissonance until the point of Falling. Though the most non-canon thing I ever had in a campeign (very short one) was when I interpreted the Koran quote (something to the effect of) "He who names the angels of God with the names of females has no faith in the here after" and various other religious texts that refer to all angels as male literally. All angels were male, God was a sexist basterd (Lilith walking out shocked everyone in heaven) and the demons got a big surprise when they wound up in Hell. Also ever Choir/Band had the Grigori ability and thus human/celestial crossbreads were comparitvely common (especially on Hell's side considering they could keep easier track of them). It was a strange couple of games. Anyway my rambling on the violence I commit against canon is over. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 23:24:35 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> What Demons are Really After Their still doing evil, their still evil by most human morality. I also think what your saying pertains more to Hellborn than to Fallen angels (especially origional Fallen). I'd imagine that they buy a bit more into Lucifer's returning them all to Heaven. True enough that any old demon is just out for themselves, but that is damning enough especially considering how much suffering they cause. To not even feel anything about that suffering they have to believe themselves better than humans, to do that they put themselves at odds with Heaven's idealogical beliefs. Not all demons have lofty goals, most just want a nice middle management job where they aren't under a Balseraph, can order around a bunch of demons and has a Calabite or two protecting his arse. In essence they want the equivellent of what most busness people want. I agree they couldn't care less whether they were in Heaven or in Hell, if God was right or if old Lucy has it pegged. The stalemate is good for them and thus they try not to shake things up. They don't care about humanity, they buy enough into the party line to justify everything they do to themselves and they have no problems. PC demons should probably be a bit more interesting IMO. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 02:26:20 -0500 From: Ehrbar Subject: Re: IN> IN:> Eli's Angels From: "Wade Hursman" Subject: Re: IN> IN:> Eli's Angels >>Isn't serving Eli itself a dissidence condition? >>J. Michael Neal >Nope, main rulebook says that Eli has no specific Dissonance requirements. >Only the Choir dissonance. I think J. Michael Neal was making a pun, here, as a way of pointing out a misspelling without using a Grammar Flame(TM). The post he was responding to kept spelling it dissIDENCE instead of dissONANCE. Well, Eli's Servitors do tend to be dissIDENTS, as in they tend to not go along with the party line. So the condition of serving Eli would itself be a dissIDENT condition. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 02:33:38 -0500 From: Ehrbar Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1451 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Request errata for Superiours 1 > Um for us ignorant folk what does KK refer to? My local store doesn't have > a large In-Nomine selection so I have to wait for Christmas for Superiors 1 > and the GMG, and am thus incredibly frustrated but I'll live. > Anyway who is KK? http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Demons/Lilim.KK.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 03:53:09 GMT From: "Trey Reilly" Subject: IN> Re: virtual tethers >Could certain websites, or locales in cyberspace if your playing in >a >future campaign, become Tethers, Lol---I just get this great image of a Janusite playing Doom for 3 days straight to work off dissonance. - --Trey no, wait..if I get through this board.. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 22:00:07 -0500 (EST) From: Douglas Muir Subject: IN> Virtual Tethers On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, Benjamin Acosta wrote: > Oops. Didn't know about that one. I originally was just going to go > "BOOM!" but decided to make it bigger to avoid the 1/3rd rule. Avoid injury, risk Dissonance. Avoid Dissonance, risk Trauma... > Are Virtual Tethers possible? Could certain websites, or locales in > cyberspace if your playing in a future campaign, become Tethers, letting > you work off dissonane while working on them, and allowing travel between > the Celestial Realm and any computer it is on? I haven't read the book of Tethers (yet), so I don't know if this is addressed. But it seems at least plausible to me. After all, we know there are mobile tethers, and Celestials have obviously come to terms with the information age. Although it could get a little bit Matrix-y. Angel logs on, angel visits website, angel enters password ("servluvsmite111"), angel Ascends. Or, going the other way, angel, departing Heaven, descends into virtual tether, and... what? Pops out at a randomly selected terminal that happens to be logged on to that website? Disappears forever into cyberspace? An interesting idea, but it'd need some work. Might be fun to run the idea past some PCs, though, just to confuse them. > Ben, Elohite of Eli > Angel of Neat Ideas Well, I think you got your point of Essence for today. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 01:00:57 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Virtual Tethers > > Are Virtual Tethers possible? It /is/ an interesting idea. Part of the thing with Tethers is a sense of place, though. I don't really think a virtual tether should be tied to its server box, because that's not the virtual location -- it's just the code/database/website. So if someone logs onto a chat server and manages to persuade someone else to reach their destiny, it isn't clear to me that the box with the code in - -- which may be half a world away from both relevant users -- should be the Destiny tether. From a rules lawyer point of view, this might stink, but if I was using it then I'd be tempted to say that celestials can log into the site from anywhere. Otherwise what happens if the server changes, or someone takes a backup? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 16:28:54 -0800 From: 8news4u@pastunsn.net Subject: IN> Sale ! Norton Utilities 2000 ? Here's the December 8 KTS Wholesale Software M= embers Update
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 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 03:38:59 -0800 (PST) From: Les Fenison Subject: Re: IN> Sale ! Norton Utilities 2000 ? [Auto Reply] There is no one here named WWW-Server or WWW, Your message has not been delivered. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:11:43 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Virtual Tethers > So if someone logs onto a chat server and manages to persuade someone else > to reach their destiny, it isn't clear to me that the box with the code in > -- which may be half a world away from both relevant users -- should be the > Destiny tether. In reference to IRC, the situation is slightly more dire. Across the larger networks (DALnet, EFFnet, and UNDERNet), there are dozens of servers which comprise the network. People in a heavily trafficked room might be across a dozen servers in various places on the globe. So if someone tries to bring people to their destiny via IRC, there's no guarentee where that tether is going to pop up. Furthermore, it's complicated by the fact that, unless you log into a specific server every time, there is no guarentee that those working with Destiny and those who are being worked on are going to appear in the same place twice. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 05:32:05 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Virtual Tethers >From: Emily Dresner > So if >someone tries to bring people to their destiny via IRC <...> Yes but really, how likely is that? :) jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 09:22:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Gant Subject: Re: IN> Moral Ambiguity On Wed, 8 Dec 1999, Azrael wrote: > > The argument is over why she was rewarded. > > I didn't know that Uriel was female, is this canon or just speculation? Uriel is a sexless being. Just like all of the other Archangels, Angels, Demons, and Demon Princes (except Lilith, who was created female). They don't typically identify themselves as either sex, since that's a human condition. The only reason we do is because "it" sounds wrong. (Try it out: "The argument is over why it was rewarded.") I suspect that Neel referred to Uriel as female for the heck of it. Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/4656/ The Returners Final Fantasy Role-Playing Game Site: http://returners.simplenet.com/ or http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Matrix/5758/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1452 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.