From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Dec 16 15:55:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA19941 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:55:36 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id PAA01270 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:52:56 -0600 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:52:56 -0600 Message-Id: <199912162152.PAA01270@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1462 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, December 16 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1462 In this digest: Re: IN> Copts and Robers IN> INS/MV vs IN SJG IN> Enoch and Arks and In Nomine, oh my! Re: IN> Copts and Robers Re: IN> INS/MV vs IN SJG Re: IN> INS/MV vs IN SJG Re: IN> INS/MV [SPOILERS] (Was: What Demons are Really After) IN> Movie Trailer: The Final Trumpet Re: IN> INS/MV [SPOILERS] (Was: What Demons are Really After) IN> Re: MBTI types Re: IN> Movie Trailer: The Final Trumpet Re: IN> INS/MV vs IN SJG Re: IN> Movie Trailer: The Final Trumpet Re: IN> INS/MV vs IN SJG Re: IN> INS/MV [SPOILERS] (Was: What Demons are Really After) Re: IN> INS/MV vs IN SJG IN> Word Suggestions. Re: IN> Word Suggestions. Re: IN> Word Suggestions. IN> Original IN, and Karma [FLUFF] Re: IN> Word Suggestions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:23:25 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Copts and Robers > Mark (Who wants to know if he can get Rambling Essence for this...) Oh yeah you definetly get the Rambling Rite. One question, where can one find the Book of Enoch? Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:28:28 -0500 (EST) From: Stacy Stroud Subject: IN> INS/MV vs IN SJG Quoth the Archangel Beth: >Not actually, as it turns out -- as I think David mentioned over on >the Pyramid InNomine board, the original Khalid ("AA of Raghead >Truck Bombers," I believe it's been called?) was a very close translation. >I wouldn't be surprised if Dominic (aka "The Balseraph in the Cloak") >was (were? my conditionals book isn't as clear as it should be) a close >translation as well. Hmm. The early draft of SJG IN posted to io.com (years before the game was finally released) had a fairly nice, female Dominique. Of course, early posts by Derek to this list describe some of the Superiors moving closer to their INS/MV counterparts as the revising went on, so it may be that Dominic is in fact closer to the original. Stacy Stroud deadstop@prodigy.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:55:26 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Enoch and Arks and In Nomine, oh my! >>>1) Read the Book of Enoch. It's really interesting from an In Nomine standpoint.<<< Definitely, especially since a lot of popular (but non-Biblical) angelic lore comes from Enoch. Also interesting to note is that according to some legends, the Queen of Sheba stole the Ark of the Covenant from Solomon and flew it back to Ethiopia (yes, flew -- we're talking Old Testament-grade sorcery and miracles, here), where it is buried to this day. (There's actually a church where some say it's located, IIRC.) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:54:11 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Copts and Robers MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: > Actually, if I'm remembering correctly, the Ethiopian church is *not* > actually the same as the Coptic Church, even though they're in > communion (don't ask...) and share some liturgies. There still might be more Copts in Ethiopia than in Egypt, sharing nationality with the Ethiopian Church. I don't know that that's true, but it might be. Copts have a motive for migrating to Ethiopia, in that Ethiopia was, until the 20th century, a Christian nation. That doesn't mean they'd treat the Copts any better than Moslem Egypt, but Egypt has a history of NOT treating the Copts well. > the answer is that 'in communion' means that a member of one church > can participate fully in all liturgical activities of the other, but > the property of being in communion is not extensive). I think you mean "the property of being in communion is not transitive." That is, if A is in communion with B, and B with C, it does not follow that A is in communion with C. (On the other hand, being in communion *is* "commutative"; if A communes with B, B communes with A.) > 3) I personally like to map heavenly politics to church politics for > amusement value. Novalis is very 'social gospel.' Eli worked with the > Rastafarians. [...] Did Michael or Laurence have a hand in the Salvation Army? > Janus occasionally shows up to meetings of the Jesus Seminar. To shake up traditional belief or traditional unbelief? For another IN tie-in, the Ethiopian Church claims to be the keepers of the Ark of the Covenant, no matter what Indiana Jones claims. See SJG's "Warehouse 23" book. This would be a mega-reliquary of the same calibre as the True Cross, the Holy Grail, or the Spear of Longinus. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:10:49 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> INS/MV vs IN SJG At 4:28 PM -0500 12/15/99, Stacy Stroud wrote: >Hmm. The early draft of SJG IN posted to io.com (years before the game was >finally released) had a fairly nice, female Dominique. Man, I'd have loved to have seen that... (I think Dominic went through several revisions of Choir, too. I seem to recall Malakite and Cherub (!). And I think Blandine was once a Seraph.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:10:49 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> INS/MV vs IN SJG At 4:28 PM -0500 12/15/99, Stacy Stroud wrote: >Hmm. The early draft of SJG IN posted to io.com (years before the game was >finally released) had a fairly nice, female Dominique. Man, I'd have loved to have seen that... (I think Dominic went through several revisions of Choir, too. I seem to recall Malakite and Cherub (!). And I think Blandine was once a Seraph.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:09:47 -0500 From: neelk@cswcasa.com Subject: Re: IN> INS/MV [SPOILERS] (Was: What Demons are Really After) Earl Wajenberg wrote: > >Perry Lloyd wrote: > >> Uh, Earl, what do Copts and Monophysite mean, exactly? > >The Monophysite heresy is one of many beliefs springing up in early >Christian history concerning the nature of Christ. The now-orthodox >belief is that Christ is simultaneously perfectly human and perfectly >divine. The Monophysite belief is that Christ had only one nature, >which was divine; he was only pretending to be human. I'll butt in here to point out that there is another heresy called Arianism which also states that Christ had a single nature -- the difference from the Monophysites is that Arians believed that Christ had a purely human nature. L. Sprague DeCamp's _Lest Darkness Fall_ had a scene where the time traveller came upon a tavern in 5th century Rome that had a sign strictly prohibiting religious debates: alcohol and doctrine mixed badly and tended to spark huge fights. Also, there was a game from Chaosium called /Credo/ -- in it, each of the players was a bishop at the Council of Nicea trying to get their pet bit of dogma into the wording of the Nicene Creed. I played it once ages ago -- it was absolutely hilarious. Too bad I can't seem to find a copy for love or money. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:09:21 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: IN> Movie Trailer: The Final Trumpet EXTREME CLOSEUP on an eye of almost perfect blue, filmed over. ZOOM OUT to show an angel lying in a pool of blood, its wings shattered. DISSOLVE to another dead body, this one with wings that mark it as a demon. Continue DISSOLVING from dead celestial to dead celestial, each lying dead from a different cause. VOICEOVER: "A great city is emptied of the children of heaven." CUT to a group of rioters in Arabic robes storming the home of a man who looks down from his balcony at them beatifically, all seen through a gun sight that centers between his eyes. VO: "The Holiest Man in the World Dies by Hands Not Mortal." CUT to a field of bodies, their blood soaking the grass and the broken plants surrounding them. The dead stretch as far as the eye can see, an unbroken road of corpses. VO: "The Mortal Tyrant Harvests a Million Souls." CUT to the North Sea. The MIDGARD SERPENT rises, tossing the wreckage of broken ships in all directions. Standing before it on an outcropping of rock is THOR, GOD OF THUNDER, screaming a challenge as lightning strikes all around them. VO: "An Ancient Evil Breaks its Bonds." CUT to the Seraphim Council. YVES, face lined with immortal sorrow, looks at his fellow Archangels, bows his head, and softly says, "We are agreed." CUT to the throne room of LUCIFER, smiling broadly at the Princes of Hell as he proudly says, "We are agreed." CUT to SPLIT-SCREEN, YVES' face on the left half, LUCIFER'S face on the right, as they say in unison, "It is War." VO: "In Unity, War is Embraced." CUT to a series of shots of cities in ruins CUT to BELIAL standing in the middle of the US CAPITAL DOME, laughing maniacally as it bursts into flames. BELIAL: "Burn, baby! BURN!" VO: "At the Changing of the Year, All the Continents are at War." CUT to an open plain, the combined forces of Heaven and Hell readied for war, as MICHAEL and BAAL fight with axe and sword, each wounded severely but refusing to fall. VO: "The Champions Battle amid the Flames and One is Vanquished." CUT to a small chamber. ELI stands before DOMINIC, with YVES, JANUS, NOVALIS, LILITH, and KOBAL in the background. ELI: "So now you finally know what I spent my exile creating, Most Holy." KOBAL: "And now you finally get the joke." ELI: "Will you stand with us, Archangel of Judgment, or will you stand with those who will bring an end to all?" FADE to a black background, with letters of fire spelling out "THE FINAL TRUMPET" VOICEOVER, sung: "And I will not be a pawn of the Prince of Darkness, any longer." FADE to BLACK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:15:58 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> INS/MV [SPOILERS] (Was: What Demons are Really After) From: > > Also, there was a game from Chaosium called /Credo/ -- in it, each of > the players was a bishop at the Council of Nicea trying to get their > pet bit of dogma into the wording of the Nicene Creed. THANK YOU! I've been trying for years to remember who published that, and what tehexact title was. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:52:13 -0800 From: atgies@wm.edu Subject: IN> Re: MBTI types I don't know what Lucifer was originally, but today I'd guess INTP. His manner of going around and changing things slightly when necessary would fit ENTP exactly, except that he _never speaks_. NTP fits well, also, with one who would rebel against God for a philosophical difference. If he rebelled to gain power, then maybe INTJ, but he hardly seems like a mastermind, leaving planning to the Princes. Hmm. That makes me think of INFJ, "quietly exerting their influence behind the scenes." Adam Gieseler ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:49:53 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Movie Trailer: The Final Trumpet Kewl. One minor addition: >"The Mortal Tyrant Harvests a Million Souls." > >CUT to the North Sea. The MIDGARD SERPENT rises, tossing the wreckage of >broken ships in all directions. Standing before it on an outcropping of rock >is THOR, GOD OF THUNDER, screaming a challenge as lightning strikes all >around them. > >VO: > >"An Ancient Evil Breaks its Bonds." Ought to be: CUT to a narrow, rocky gorge deep in a desolate desert. Several people are frantically busy in a deep hollow while an enormous TIGER stands guard. Suddenly everyone scatters. Moments later there is an explosion. CLOSEUP to the wall of the gorge, where the explosion has revealed a pair of huge stone doors, previously buried. There doors are sealed with an elaborate symbol, which has been damaged by the explosion. PULL OUT to a wide shot of the gorge. A second, much larger explosion hurls boulders and rubble in every direction. As the smoke clears, we see that the doors have been shattered from within. Standing in the doorway is the unspeakable form of MAGOG, Demon Prince of Cruelty. Otherwise, nifty. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:21:00 -0500 From: Doctor TOC Subject: Re: IN> INS/MV vs IN SJG Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > >Hmm. The early draft of SJG IN posted to io.com (years before the game was > >finally released) had a fairly nice, female Dominique. > > Man, I'd have loved to have seen that... (I think Dominic went through > several revisions of Choir, too. I seem to recall Malakite and Cherub (!). > And I think Blandine was once a Seraph.) Is this the version that was briefly on the web a couple of years before the game finally made it out? The one that had Hell carved out of the dead body of the Metatron? If so, I may still have my copy of that somewhere. To be honest, I preferred some of the stuff in there to the published game. The Archangels were more primal (Michael, for instance, was simply a column of blue energy IIRC) and less human in motivation and behaviour. I guess I prefer my IN like I like Ice Cream; cold, dark and full of nuts. Wait, that didn't come out right... Doctor TOC - -- The Reverend Doctor "The Other Chris" ICQ # 4814586 Time War RPG - http://jump.to/TimeWar The TOC Files - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/wilhelm/148/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:04:30 CST From: "Wade Hursman" Subject: Re: IN> Movie Trailer: The Final Trumpet ooooooo! I like it! I like it! Wade Habbalite of Technolgy, Demon of Telemarketers ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:30:17 +1100 From: Chris Rose Subject: Re: IN> INS/MV vs IN SJG At 05:10 PM 15/12/99 -0500, you wrote: >At 4:28 PM -0500 12/15/99, Stacy Stroud wrote: > > >Hmm. The early draft of SJG IN posted to io.com (years before the game was > >finally released) had a fairly nice, female Dominique. > >Man, I'd have loved to have seen that... (I think Dominic went through >several revisions of Choir, too. I seem to recall Malakite and Cherub (!). >And I think Blandine was once a Seraph.) Beth Would putting that up somewhere/e-mail it to people who want it (Oh !! MeMeMeMeMe!!!) violate copyright in any manner ? Stacy Would you mind putting /sending it/ etc if we're allowed ? Thanks Chris Ofanite of Lightning Angel of Phone Tech Support "Do What Thou Wilt, but Be Cool" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:56:47 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> INS/MV [SPOILERS] (Was: What Demons are Really After) Neel wrote: > I'll butt in here to point out that there is another heresy called > Arianism which also states that Christ had a single nature -- the > difference from the Monophysites is that Arians believed that Christ > had a purely human nature. Sorry, no. From long and intimate acquaintance with the issue (which is another story), I know that this is something often said of the Arians, but that is not what Arius preached. The Arians said that Christ was the first creature, "the firstborn of all creation," as the book of Hebrews puts it -- a separate being from God, subordinate to God, but superior to everything else, and the agent through with God created the rest of the universe (also details in Hebrews). In In-Nomine terms, he's a lot like Yves, the first soul. For Web data on this issue, see http://cedar.evansville.edu/~ecoleweb/arians/arianchr.htm for a history of the Arian controversy. See also the various letters of Arius and Arian confessions, linked to that page, which pitch their Christology so high that it becomes hard to distinguish from orthodox Athanasian, Trinitarian Christology. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 14:56:07 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> INS/MV vs IN SJG At 6:30 PM +1100 12/16/99, Chris Rose wrote: >At 05:10 PM 15/12/99 -0500, you wrote: >>At 4:28 PM -0500 12/15/99, Stacy Stroud wrote: >> >> >Hmm. The early draft of SJG IN posted to io.com [...] >Would putting that up somewhere/e-mail it to people who want it (Oh >!! MeMeMeMeMe!!!) violate copyright in any manner ? Yes, it would. If you can find it somewhere hidden on the site, that's one thing, but putting it up would violate copyright something fierce. (And it would certainly be bad of me to send it in email, if I could even find where I put the thing...) If you can find someone else to do that.... I don't wanna know about it, and if you go around distributing it to people so that they don't buy the books, then there will be a karmic curse upon you that you will never shake till you buy five copies of the APG and sacrifice them ritually. Or maybe twenty. It depends. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:48:43 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: IN> Word Suggestions. I need a word for a hellborn Balseraph of Fate with the role of a defense lawyer. Preferably something that is untaken... Ben ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:00:27 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Word Suggestions. Ben Glickler wrote: > I need a word for a hellborn Balseraph of Fate with the role of a > defense lawyer. Preferably something that is untaken... Demon of Loopholes? Demon of the Scot-Free? Demon of the Eleventh Commandment ("Thou shalt not get caught.")? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 13:03:32 -0700 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Word Suggestions. At 12:48 PM 12/16/99 -0700, you wrote: >I need a word for a hellborn Balseraph of Fate with the role of a defense >lawyer. Preferably something that is untaken... How about... The Twinkie Defense? Claiming Insanity? Seducing The Prosecuting Attorney? ;) - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 14:23:48 -0600 From: Shadowstar Subject: IN> Original IN, and Karma [FLUFF] At 2:56 PM -0500 12/16/99, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >if you go around distributing it to people so that they don't buy >the books, then there will be a karmic curse upon you that you will >never shake till you buy five copies of the APG and sacrifice them >ritually. > >Or maybe twenty. It depends. Twenty-Three Copies! . . . Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centurytel.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://home.centurytel.net/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:50:04 -0600 From: "Dennis Groome V" Subject: Re: IN> Word Suggestions. Demon of False Aquitals? - -Dennis Groome V / "Amo Nympham" http://evm-gamers.freeservers.com ICQ: 11430261 "I think I woke up screaming, 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me." -Stabbing Westward, ACF - ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Glickler To: Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 1:48 PM Subject: IN> Word Suggestions. > I need a word for a hellborn Balseraph of Fate with the role of a defense > lawyer. Preferably something that is untaken... > > Ben > > > ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1462 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.