From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Dec 20 16:12:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (root@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA01458 for ; Mon, 20 Dec 1999 16:12:34 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id QAA28047 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 20 Dec 1999 16:01:31 -0600 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 16:01:31 -0600 Message-Id: <199912202201.QAA28047@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1466 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, December 20 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1466 In this digest: Re: IN> Kyriotaets and Vessels Re: IN> Kyriotaets and Vessels Re: IN> Kyriotaets and Vessels IN> Save Up To 75% on International Calling IN> Save Up To 75% on International Calling IN> Shopping for Superiors RE: IN> Shopping for Superiors Re: IN> Shopping for Superiors Fwd: IN> Shopping for Superiors Re: IN> Shopping for Superiors IN> laser printer toner advertisement Re: IN> ...he hath defiled the head of his consecration.... IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1465 IN> Home Loans & Refinancing Available Re: IN> Redeemed Malakim Re: IN> The Holy Trinity Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1465 Re: IN> Paradigm Shift! Re: IN> Paradigm Shift! Re: APG (was Re: IN> INS/MV vs IN SJG) Re: APG (was Re: IN> INS/MV vs IN SJG) Re: IN> Paradigm Shift! Re: APG (was Re: IN> INS/MV vs IN SJG) IN> Adventure twist Re: APG (was Re: IN> INS/MV vs IN SJG) Re: IN> Arianism Re: IN> Arianism Re: IN> Arianism Re: APG (was Re: IN> INS/MV vs IN SJG) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 20:04:37 -0600 From: aborden@soltec.net (Amy Borden) Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotaets and Vessels Azrael wrote: >What happens when a Kyriotate with a Corporeal Discord like Discoloured or >Crippled or Stigmata >takes a host? Do they suddenly change colour etc...like a chameleon, do >they suddenly lose a limb? According to the APG, Kyros with a Discord will manifest it in whatever hosts they take--though in the case of Discords like Crippled I think they simply lose the use of the affected limb while in a host. The dubious upside of such Discords when they manifest is that sometimes the Kyrio can use it as a "tag" to let fellow angels know they're possessing a host--the problem being the obviousness of a lot of the Discords sometimes also lets *demons* know Who's In There. :) >Do vessle work on the same system of movement as we humans i.e. does >amuscle contract and pull on a bone >in order to create movement? Or do they work on force of will/mystical >movement? Frex, I you were to cut to the bone the flesh around somesones >vessels wrist, severing tendons and muscles etc.. could they still move >their fingers? I was always under the assumption that to all effects, a vessel was simply a nearly perfect copy of the human body, up to and including muscular structure and operation. The only differences (other than sterility, natch) are a celestial vessel doesn't need food, drink, water or sleep because of the celestial occupying it, and it's also why strength and toughness is greater. Those bonuses doesn't mean diddly, though, if the celestial's means of interface with the corporeal (IOW, the vessel), is hampered or damaged. So yeah, I'd say if a celestial were hamstrung, they'd be incapable of walking, or incapable of gripping if their wrist tendons were severed. My 5 cents of incoherent babble on the subject. :) YMMV. - --GC ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 20:04:37 -0600 From: aborden@soltec.net (Amy Borden) Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotaets and Vessels Azrael wrote: >What happens when a Kyriotate with a Corporeal Discord like Discoloured or >Crippled or Stigmata >takes a host? Do they suddenly change colour etc...like a chameleon, do >they suddenly lose a limb? According to the APG, Kyros with a Discord will manifest it in whatever hosts they take--though in the case of Discords like Crippled I think they simply lose the use of the affected limb while in a host. The dubious upside of such Discords when they manifest is that sometimes the Kyrio can use it as a "tag" to let fellow angels know they're possessing a host--the problem being the obviousness of a lot of the Discords sometimes also lets *demons* know Who's In There. :) >Do vessle work on the same system of movement as we humans i.e. does >amuscle contract and pull on a bone >in order to create movement? Or do they work on force of will/mystical >movement? Frex, I you were to cut to the bone the flesh around somesones >vessels wrist, severing tendons and muscles etc.. could they still move >their fingers? I was always under the assumption that to all effects, a vessel was simply a nearly perfect copy of the human body, up to and including muscular structure and operation. The only differences (other than sterility, natch) are a celestial vessel doesn't need food, drink, water or sleep because of the celestial occupying it, and it's also why strength and toughness is greater. Those bonuses doesn't mean diddly, though, if the celestial's means of interface with the corporeal (IOW, the vessel), is hampered or damaged. So yeah, I'd say if a celestial were hamstrung, they'd be incapable of walking, or incapable of gripping if their wrist tendons were severed. My 5 cents of incoherent babble on the subject. :) YMMV. - --GC ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 19:24:56 -0700 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotaets and Vessels At 11:01 AM 12/20/99 PST, you wrote: >What happens when a Kyriotate with a Corporeal Discord like Discoloured or Crippled or Stigmata >takes a host? Do they suddenly change colour etc...like a chameleon, do they suddenly lose a limb? The Discord tends to take effect in a way that will not permanently harm the host; Discolored will make the host blue, or purple with red spots, for the duration; Crippled will cause one of the host's limbs to become unusable for the period of possession (without actually damaging it; the Kyrio simply can't access that limb), and Stigmata will stop bleeding and heal up as soon as the Kyrio leaves. >Do vessle work on the same system of movement as we humans i.e. does amuscle contract and pull on a bone >in order to create movement? Or do they work on force of will/mystical movement? Frex, I you were to cut to >the bone the flesh around somesones vessels wrist, severing tendons and muscles etc.. could they still move their fingers? Yes, no. A vessel works the same way as any natural corporeal body; the animating force of the Celestial is what gives it the power to not eat, sleep, drink, etc. (Hence the fact that this becomes true of Kyrio-possessed vessels too.) Thus, if you sever the tendons of a body part, that body part will be unable to move until the tendons have healed. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Dec 99 16:18:34 EST From: LD847128@shinsoong.co.kr Subject: IN> Save Up To 75% on International Calling Save Up To 75% on International Calling ..for residents inside AND outside the USA Here is a sample of our rates To/From the USA: Rates(US$) COUNTRY 0.14/min. Australia 0.23/min. Brazil - Sao Paolo 0.12/min. Canada 0.36/min. China 0.14/min. France 0.12/min. Germany 0.10/min. Hong Kong 0.78/min. India 0.14/min. Japan - Tokyo 0.14/min. New Zealand 0.35/min. Philippines 0.29/min. Russia - Moscow 0.17/min. S. Korea 0.12/min. 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Thank You! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Dec 99 16:18:34 EST From: LD847128@shinsoong.co.kr Subject: IN> Save Up To 75% on International Calling Save Up To 75% on International Calling ..for residents inside AND outside the USA Here is a sample of our rates To/From the USA: Rates(US$) COUNTRY 0.14/min. Australia 0.23/min. Brazil - Sao Paolo 0.12/min. Canada 0.36/min. China 0.14/min. France 0.12/min. Germany 0.10/min. Hong Kong 0.78/min. India 0.14/min. Japan - Tokyo 0.14/min. New Zealand 0.35/min. Philippines 0.29/min. Russia - Moscow 0.17/min. S. Korea 0.12/min. UK - - Rates apply 24 hrs/day, 7 days per week - - NO sign-up fees, NO monthly fees, and NO surcharges - - Billing is in 6 second increments - - You DO NOT have to SWITCH your current provider - - Ideal for Home and Business - - For residents OUTSIDE the USA, we have INT'L CALLBACK Contact us for complete rate table Agents Wanted Worldwide: We are also looking for agents worldwide to market our services. Very attractive commissions! Contact us for more information and complete rate table at: jdavis78@bigfoot.com For service information, please type "info" in the subject line. For agent information, please type "agent" in the subject line. Please include your full name when requesting agent information. Thank You! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 00:31:46 -0600 (CST) From: Benjamin Acosta Subject: IN> Shopping for Superiors Only a few more days left till Christmas and still have got all my gift shopping done. Anybody have any suggestions on what to get the Archangels this year. Eli seems happy with just about anything you make yourself, but choosing stuff for the others is just so hard. So, what would you give a Superior for Christmas? Here's what I've come up with so far. Bladine: Maybe a Sandmand TPB? David: Gems, Metalwork? Eli: Anything you make yourself. Dominic: No idea. Gabriel: Charcoal? Janus: No idea. Jean: Something from Sharper Image? Jordi: He doesn't seem into gifts. Laurence: He's easy. A sword. Perhaps a Katana this time. Marc: What do you get for the Archangel who has everything? Michael: A computer strategy game? Novalis: Flowers? Yves: I asked him what he wanted, and all he did was smile enigmatically. So, any suggestions. Ben, Elohite of Eli Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 00:55:22 -0600 From: "M Trent" Subject: RE: IN> Shopping for Superiors Janus: a kite or a stolen car Jordi: a pokemon fan if I ever saw one. 8) Dominic: a nice leather bound legal commentary Gabby: A lava lamp Yves: a trivia board game Trent Ofanite of Doubt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 01:50:35 EST From: SdshowTim@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Shopping for Superiors Hey you left out the Demon Princes, they definetly need some christmas cheer down in the Pit, so here is what I'm thinking of getting my good buddies: Andrealphus- Would probably just like sitting on Santa's lap Asmodeus- A chess set that had angels as one side and demons as the other. Baal- Any first person shooter. Beleth- Not sure, and I don't want to open what she gave me, its cold, and hums and, and oh, oh God, n... Belial- A yule log soaked in kerosine. Haagenti- A christmas ham, a christmas goose, sugar plumbs... Kobal- Mr Hankey's Christmas Classics, the soutpark Christmas special Kronos- Maybe a laptop to help with that list he's been making of good kids to give coal to. Lilith- Something of equal value to what she's giving you. Malphas- Hmm, he'd probably like a nice island somewhere so he can have some quality alone time. Nybbas- What ever the next latest craze is. Saminga- A Zombi-O-Matic. Valefor- Just going to invite him over and he'll select his own gift. Vapula- Anything from the Sharper Image. Timothy, Angel of Rambling ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 22:58:11 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Fwd: IN> Shopping for Superiors >From: Benjamin Acosta >Marc: What do you get for the Archangel who has everything? Get him something that /you/ want, and with a bit of luck you'll get it back on your birthday :) jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 02:22:07 EST From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Shopping for Superiors Blandine: One of those Indian dream-catcher thingies. David: A kiln. Dominic: A documentary of the O.J. trial to be used in teaching Servitors "how-not-to" Eli: A six-pack and a carton of smokes. Gabriel: Therapy Janus: Wind-chimes Jean: A slide-rule. Jordi: Flea powder and a chew-toy. Laurence: He's already got too many swords. Give him a scabbard. Marc: Money-clip. Michael: Brasso. For his axe. Novalis: Miracle-Gro. Or a garden weasel. Yves: An apple. (For teacher.) Andrealphus: A framed restraining order from all the Spice Girls. Asmodeus: A documentary of the O.J. trial to be used in teaching Servitors "how-to" Baal: Gun oil, and a gift certificate to Men's Wearhouse. Beleth: A collection of Freddy Krueger videos. Belial: Bactine. (gag gift) Haagenti: A book. "How to Serve Man" (mmmmm.....man) Kobal: A Far Side calender. Kronos: Pocket-watch Malphas: Jerry Springer "Too hot for TV" video. Nybbas: Universal Remote Control Saminga: Chainsaw and a Hockey Mask Valefor: A stereo that you stole from his own living room. Vapula: (gag gift) The Unabomer Manifesto. and Lilith: It depends. Something of equal value to whatever she gave you. Merry Christmas, People! 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OTHERWISE PLEASE CALL OUR CUSTOMER SERCICE LINE. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 07:57:59 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> ...he hath defiled the head of his consecration.... Very nicely done. Point of Essence. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 08:15:58 -0500 From: nukenin@concentric.net Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1465 first time here. hope I'm posting right... :-) got a coupla rule questions for everyone. 1) can the undead be redeemed? how would it work, and what would happen? 2) if a kyrio of Jordi is using a swarm for a vessel, does he incur dissonance if some of the bugs are killed? would the corporeal song of healing help at all? 3) can the celestial song of form change species (like cat to monkey, or a swarm of cockroaches to a swarm of scorpions)? thanks :-) Grimmy, Demon of things that go Beep in the Night (rite: set off a car alarm after bedtime...) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 99 01:05:17 EST From: HomeLoans@xmail.fsnet.co.uk Subject: IN> Home Loans & Refinancing Available You can now comparison shop thousands of loan programs through hundreds of lenders by filling in a single short form. 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(Also works with grubs, gremlins, snots, and frotlings, or whatever the current menagerie of pre-demons is.) This gives great flexibility in terms of timing, since celestials don't mature at a fixed rate like corporeal life forms. The imp could have been festering in the bowels of Hell for as long as you like, then redeemed, spent as long as you like as a reliever, then fledged as a Malakite. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 10:22:59 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> The Holy Trinity MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: > Considering the original language, I would say: > > Janus: Holy Ghost. > > How's that for bizarre? That *does* kind of work. Not only does "spirit" or "pneuma" or "ruah" all mean "breath" or (loosely) wind, but Janus is (supposedly) an Ophanite, which means he's a wheel of fire, and the Holy Spirit is also symbolized by Fire. Also, Janus is one of the more mysterious Archangels, like Eli and Yves. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 09:46:33 -0700 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1465 At 08:15 AM 12/20/99 -0500, you wrote: Didn't we just hear these? :) >1) can the undead be redeemed? how would it work, and what would happen? Nope. They can be "redeemed" - see the errors of their ways and start working for Heaven - but in the end, their fate is the same. >2) if a kyrio of Jordi is using a swarm for a vessel, does he incur >dissonance if some of the bugs are killed? would the corporeal song of >healing help at all? Yes, and yes. >3) can the celestial song of form change species (like cat to monkey, or a >swarm of cockroaches to a swarm of scorpions)? Change species? No. Change to /look/ like another species? ...Maybe. You could certainly change a housecat to look like a panther; you could change a cockroach to The Cockroach That Ate Cincinatti, if you had the Essence for the mass increase, or to (perhaps) a locust, if you didn't. On further contemplation, I can see changing a cat to look like a lemur. But "look like" is the key there; it would be a lemur that always walked on all fours, had impeccable balance, and "meow"ed a lot. Likewise cockroaches to scorpions - they'd be scorpions who tended to stumble around because they didn't have any antennae to feel with, and who were fairly ineffectual because their poison was a) often misaimed, and b) didn't really work. On the whole, though, wouldn't it be a lot more efficient to just possess a monkey or a swarm of scorpions? - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 11:17:20 CST From: "jonh smith" Subject: Re: IN> Paradigm Shift! > IN> The Holy Trinity > >Yves: Father. > >Eli: Son. > >God: Holy Ghost. > >Discuss. alright, I've heard this one a bunch of times, expect ussualy with Janus in the role of Holy Ghost, so how about we consider a new example? Father: God himself, Jesus: Uriel, Christopher, or Michael (I'm going to hell for this one!) Holy Spirit: Gabriel Just a reaction to all the "Eli as Christ" I see ussually. considering the stress on Purity in christian doctrine, Uriel would be a good canidate. It would also explain his attacks on religions not heavenly, and his recall to the upper heaven. God wanted to talk ot his son. Christopher would work, since as the song tells us, Jesus loves the little children. Michael would work, with the fact that Michael is He who is like God, and seems to have some relation to the second coming prophesy in revalations. Also, the death of Jesus would seem to work for Michael. A strong front, refusing to give in even in death. then raiding hell for converts. Why does everyone want Jesus to be found in the modern incarnation of a stoned debaucher anyway? amussment? Feeling of Unity? -Mark Reiff ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 12:25:59 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Paradigm Shift! jonh smith wrote: > alright, I've heard this one a bunch of times, expect ussualy with > Janus in the role of Holy Ghost, so how about we consider a new > example? You have? I've only seen it on the list a few times, and not seen Janus before today, that I recall. > Why does everyone want Jesus to be found in the modern incarnation > of a stoned debaucher anyway? amussment? Feeling of Unity? I'm not a real fan of the Eli=Jesus idea, but what appeal it has is (1) his Word of Creation makes sense if Eli is in fact the Creator (and, in both Arian and Trinitarian theology, the Son is the immediate creative agent of the Father); (2) the name "Eli" means "my God"; (3) it paints an amusing/interesting irony of Christ being just as unrecognized and misuderstood in Heaven as on Earth. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 10:14:03 PST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: APG (was Re: IN> INS/MV vs IN SJG) > >Let's be honest, Does anybody here actually need to refer back the the >main > >rulebook to make a character ? > >I use my homebrew spreadsheet, personally, and flip through the main >book for details of Songs and attunements. Sometimes the Canticorum, too. >My main book is a hardback, and I don't have to worry about breaking >the spine on it. O:> Mmmmm... hardback. Why did I get the WHITE one? Sheesh. Oh, yeah, 'cause it was there. I *alway* refer back to the main book when creating characters. NPCs on the fly, no, not really. Characters that I'm putting some soul into, yes. The Canitcorum is an awesome resource, the book of relics only so-so. You Are Here has some interesting ideas in it . . . I find it interesting that you, Em, disallow all supplements. I can see some some reasons why one would, though. It can create an unfair situation for those players without the same books AND it can lead to tightening of the game universe. Me, I just tend to ignore the main book and whatever supplements whenever I please and attempt to keep my players up to date. :) - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com When one door closes another door opens; but we so often look so long and so regretfully upon the closed door, that we do not see the ones which open for us. - --Alexander Graham Bell ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 14:18:58 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: APG (was Re: IN> INS/MV vs IN SJG) > I find it interesting that you, Em, disallow all supplements. I can see > some some reasons why one would, though. It can create an unfair situation > for those players without the same books AND it can lead to tightening of > the game universe. Me, I just tend to ignore the main book and whatever > supplements whenever I please and attempt to keep my players up to date. :) I don't know why it comes as a surprise. When I run a game, I absolutely do not require any of my players put out a dime for the game in question, including core book. Also, because I tend to play fast and loose, I disallow all "canon" universe material. Usually I disagree with it, more times I simply do not like it. It's a restrictive straight jacket that I can do without. It's spectacularly rare that I will use something out of a supplement. The _only_ thing that made it into my In Nomine game was the 40 Slices of Cheese, and that was as a running joke. I don't use new rules either -- even if they're better. Furthermore, I will not retcon an entire plot to take advantage of "canon" material. If I want to play a purchased universe, I'll run Beyond the Mountains of Madness or Masks of Nyarlathotep. Basically, if I want to use your stuff, I'll tell ya. :) I come from a school of gaming that disbelieves in the concept of the supplement unless it is absolutely necessary. Since we played rather quite a bit of Shadowrun, supplements were allowed for character class (Grimoire 2nd Ed for Mages, Rigger Black Book for Riggers, Virtual Realities for Deckers, etc) but _nothing else_. Don't even bother buying it, bucko, because the GM is going to say no. It came as a really huge announcement recently that, after a year of playing Nephilim, we were going to use the Liber Ka. But we were all very heavy into personal world building, and still are. Maybe it's just a group of people with more time on their hands, I dunno. I always thought it was just pride in personalizing the world the PCs were gaming in. _ANYWHO_, that's where I stand, and I'm now too old and stodgy to change. :) - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 14:22:45 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Paradigm Shift! At 11:17 AM -0600 12/20/99, jonh smith wrote: > >Why does everyone want Jesus to be found in the modern incarnation >of a stoned debaucher anyway? amussment? Feeling of Unity? I would say more because Jesus was, in this theology, God made flesh and man, the Christ, who walked among us and understood us and died for our sins, transubstantiated back into the Celestial. Eli has three things going for him here: 1) He is a Mercurian. Really, he is *the* Mercurian -- the quintessential Mercurian, and among the most ancient of Archangels. Therefore, he is the Archangel who is himself closest to Man -- and the one who loves them the most to die for them as needed. 2) He was the Creator of much of the World. Where other Archangels broke up continents or forged the world -- those of the Elemental -- it was Eli who acted as the creator of things. This is an essentially Divine aspect which very easily could lead to God-Made-Flesh in Jesus. 3) Jesus was prophesized as returning, and Eli has in fact come back, recorporealizing and walking the Earth and living among and creating with humanity. Now, IMC Eli is *not* Christ. In fact, IMC, Eli (perhaps with God acting through him Metatron-like, perhaps not) *fathered* Christ on Mary with Gabriel singing the Celestial Song of Fruition -- making Gabriel not only present for but the agent of the conception, then healing Mary of her Virginity at the end. Jesus himself was a natural 15 potential Force human, awakened at a *very* early age to his Sixth Force, then acting as a Soldier. In the end, Jesus achieved his Destiny (the Crucifixion and symbolic redemption of Man, and the inauguration of Christianity as a religion) and therefore went to Heaven, where he's been waiting in Yves's Library, very patiently, to be reborn as a Saint on Earth when Yves thinks the time is right. A fact kept *very* carefully away from Laurence, Khalid and other Sectarian patrons -- and part of the reason why Yves will not speak on the Gabriel/Quran issue. Yves had dictated a testement that would conceal Eli's (and not God's) involvement with Christ (making Jesus a prophet, not the Son of God). Gabriel had been inspired by God to be a hair more forthright. For Yves to speak would be to unravel his own Christ-Gambit, which would lead more to Fate than Destiny. Or is that too elaborate an answer? - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalah of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 14:29:20 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: APG (was Re: IN> INS/MV vs IN SJG) Emily, could you describe your IN campaign and the ways it departs from the published canon? Or the main background features you can make public? I'm curious. Thanks. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 15:59:35 -0500 (EST) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: IN> Adventure twist While reading Yves' expanded writeup (Pyramid access is wonderful - WELL worth the $15 a year!), and reading of The Library, I came across a comment about everything ever recorded being in The Library, even books written in dreams. That spawned this thought, which isn't enough to be an adventure seed, but could make a nice subplot or twist in an adventure: The PCs need a certain piece of information - sources have made it apparent that it exists, but all attempt to find it have failed. Somehow, they learn that it DOES exist... but not literally. A mortal dreamer on a prophetic wavelength has spent several dreaming nights writing a book in his dreamscape - a book with the exact information that the PCs need. If angels, and they try The Library, AND they can find the book, it's all gibberish. The man is somewhat insane, and his words make clear sense ONLY in the paradigm of his dreamscape. Now the characters have to find the man, either on Earth or in the Marches, and enter his dreamscape. Until his book is finished, they have it made clear from several sources that they must NOT disturb him significantly - especially attacking him! - or his unique ability may become lost or twisted, and this book could go on to include some very, very useful pieces of information. (Angels should respect the man's destiny, demons should fear retribution from their Superiors, who desire the information.) Of course, it's never as simple as manifesting in the man's Dreamscape of his study, writing the book. No, when they try, he's having nightmares, or perhaps epic dreams... SOMEWHERE in this Escher-like 'scape of twisting corridors and animate shadows, of dragons and ice-dagger hailstorms... is the book, hidden away, in some bookcase, SOMEWHERE in the dream. Somewhere. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! STEP 21. Frost the nuts. Big bag of nut in grocery store, why are they there? There for buying, and then to frost. Much like cake frosting, nut frosting sweet and smooth. Spread much like butter, but without grease and bubble. Allow nut to dry, then place on very best noodle tray. While allow for nuts to dry, think about new form of punishment. No frost for nut go bad, so take away and replace. ("How To Become A Famous Rock Star", LMNOP) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 14:52:42 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: APG (was Re: IN> INS/MV vs IN SJG) > Emily, could you describe your IN campaign and the ways it > departs from the published canon? Or the main background > features you can make public? I'm curious. > Uh... okay. All the stuff is where it has been for the last two years, at http://www-personal.umich.edu/~zenith/in-nomine. There's some 38 game logs up, along with a variety of assorted crap that served to entertain me at the time. As for how it deviated from canon, to tell you the truth, I don't _remember_ the details anymore. I trashed the world and killed most of the Archangels and Demon Princes -- and I'm pretty damn sure _that_ isn't canon. And there was this thing about a Balseraph Dominic that rather drove one of my players into fits. I stopped running it back in April when my life fell apart, and haven't started anything since. There's a rumor that I'm prodding at something completely new for late January, but that's a RUMOR I tell you! A RUMOR! A vicious evil RUMOR! ALL LIES! LIES! For the nonce, I never kept gamelogs up on the web for general consumption. There are some habits that I never gave up from my Amber days, and these include diaries and game logs. In general, they were more to help other players keep track of what was going on in the game more than anything else. If people like 'em, great. But they really are just random personal game fanfic (except for the bit about the socks). And there's rather alot of the Ubiquitous Terry, but that's another story. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 16:43:55 -0500 From: "Prodigal" (by way of Elizabeth McCoy) Subject: Re: IN> Arianism From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Arianism Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 11:32:41 -0600 From: > > Specifically, the JW's founder (never can remember the name) Joseph Smith, who is the subject of an upcoming PBS documentary. The title is, IIRC, "Joseph Smith: American Prophet," and it should make for interesting viewing, regardless of whether you s u b scribe to his religion or not. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 16:41:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Gant Subject: Re: IN> Arianism On Mon, 20 Dec 1999, Prodigal wrote: > > > > Specifically, the JW's founder (never can remember the name) > > Joseph Smith, who is the subject of an upcoming PBS documentary. The title > is, IIRC, "Joseph Smith: American Prophet," and it should make for > interesting viewing, regardless of whether you s u b scribe to his religion or > not. Sorry, but you're wrong. Joseph Smith founded The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (popularly known as the Mormons), not the Jehovah's Witnesses. On the other hand, when is this documentary due out? Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/4656/ The Returners Final Fantasy Role-Playing Game Site: http://returners.simplenet.com/ or http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Matrix/5758/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 16:48:56 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Arianism Prodigal wrote: > > Specifically, the JW's founder (never can remember the name) > Joseph Smith, who is the subject of an upcoming PBS documentary. > The title is, IIRC, "Joseph Smith: American Prophet," and it should > make for interesting viewing, regardless of whether you s u b scribe > to his religion or not. Richard Gant wrote: > Sorry, but you're wrong. Joseph Smith founded The Church of Jesus > Christ of Latter-day Saints (popularly known as the Mormons), not > the Jehovah's Witnesses. Correct. The founder of the Witnesses was Charles Taze Russell. Early on, the Witnesses were known as "Russellites." Later, the sect was re-organized and re-named by a man named Rutherford, who wrote a lot of their early Bible-study books and had a major effect on the organization and theology. Jehovah's Witness, Mormons, Christian Scientists, and Seventh-Day Adventists all originated in America at roughly the same time (the last half of the 19th century, anyway). It was a time of spiritual upheaval, and also saw the origin of Spiritualism, to which we owe the seance, in its modern form (table knocking, et al.). Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 13:59:51 PST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: APG (was Re: IN> INS/MV vs IN SJG) > > I find it interesting that you, Em, disallow all supplements. I can see > > some some reasons why one would, though. It can create an unfair >situation > > for those players without the same books AND it can lead to tightening >of > > the game universe. Me, I just tend to ignore the main book and whatever > > supplements whenever I please and attempt to keep my players up to date. > :) > >I don't know why it comes as a surprise. When I run a game, Ahhh... my bad. I didn't mean that I found it a surprise that you in particular don't allow supplements, I suppose I find the idea of disallowing supplements in general to be a surprise. :) I absolutely >do not require any of my players put out a dime for the game in question, >including core book. Also, because I tend to play fast and loose, I >disallow all "canon" universe material. Usually I disagree with it, more >times I simply do not like it. It's a restrictive straight jacket that I >can do without. That, in reference to you, comes as NO surprise. :) It's spectacularly rare that I will use something out of >a supplement. The _only_ thing that made it into my In Nomine game was >the 40 Slices of Cheese, and that was as a running joke. I don't use new >rules either -- even if they're better. Ha ha ha . . . 40 Slices of Cheese. :) >Furthermore, I will not retcon an entire plot to take advantage of "canon" >material. What does "retcon" mean? If I want to play a purchased universe, I'll run Beyond the >Mountains of Madness or Masks of Nyarlathotep. Basically, if I want to >use your stuff, I'll tell ya. :) > >I come from a school of gaming that disbelieves in the concept of the >supplement unless it is absolutely necessary. Since we played rather >quite a bit of Shadowrun, supplements were allowed for character class >(Grimoire 2nd Ed for Mages, Rigger Black Book for Riggers, Virtual >Realities for Deckers, etc) but _nothing else_. Don't even bother buying >it, bucko, because the GM is going to say no. It came as a really huge >announcement recently that, after a year of playing Nephilim, we were >going to use the Liber Ka. > >But we were all very heavy into personal world building, and still are. >Maybe it's just a group of people with more time on their hands, I dunno. >I always thought it was just pride in personalizing the world the PCs were >gaming in. That's awesome. I personally haven't ever been able to use supplements all that well because I have a really hard time remembering ideas that aren't my own. :) About the only thing I can ever remember is the who the PC's are and the basic rules of the game. That's one reason I love GURPS so much; I just end up rolling 3d6 for EVERYTHING. My personal dice system does the same thing, 1d20 for EVERYTHING. Easier on my head, you see. >_ANYWHO_, that's where I stand, and I'm now too old and stodgy to change. >:) Oh yeah, good old and stodgy Em. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand. - --Confucius ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1466 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.