From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Dec 21 14:20:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA32760 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 14:20:25 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id OAA16179 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 14:16:57 -0600 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 14:16:57 -0600 Message-Id: <199912212016.OAA16179@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1467 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, December 21 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1467 In this digest: Re: IN> Arianism Re: IN> Paradigm Shift! Re: IN> Arianism Re: APG (was Re: IN> INS/MV vs IN SJG) Re: IN> Kyriotates and Vessels IN> Using Supplements Re: APG (was Re: IN> INS/MV vs IN SJG) Re: IN> Kyriotates and Vessels Re: IN> Using Supplements Re: IN> Shopping for Superiors IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1466 IN> Holy Trinity and Beyond Re: IN> Arianism Re: IN> Arianism Re: IN> Kyriotates and Vessels Re: IN> The Holy Trinity Re: IN> The Holy Trinity Re: IN> Using Supplements Re: APG (was Re: IN> INS/MV vs IN SJG) Re: IN> Using Supplements Re: IN> Using Supplements Re: IN> Using Supplements IN> Re: Shopping for Superiors Re: IN> Using Supplements Re: IN> Kyriotates and Vessels Re: IN> Kyriotates and Vessels Re: IN> The Holy Trinity IN> Celestials Who Won't Stay Down (Re: Kyriotates and Vessels) IN> Speculations (Re: The Holy Trinity) Jospeh Smith documentary (WAS Re: IN> Arianism) Re: IN> Speculations (Re: The Holy Trinity) Re: Jospeh Smith documentary (WAS Re: IN> Arianism) Re: Jospeh Smith documentary (WAS Re: IN> Arianism) Re: Jospeh Smith documentary (WAS Re: IN> Arianism) IN> Re: Jospeh Smith documentary (WAS Re: Arianism) Re: IN> Dogma ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 16:05:12 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Arianism From: "Prodigal (by way of Elizabeth McCoy)" > > and it should make for > interesting viewing, regardless of whether you s u b scribe to his religion or > not. D'OH! Sorry about that... :( Although this has given me a somewhat amusing idea for a Vapulan plot seed... Prodigal Demon of Calling In to Tech Support Without the Product Nearby ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 14:06:54 PST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Paradigm Shift! >From: Whistling in the Dark > Now, IMC Eli is *not* Christ. In fact, IMC, Eli (perhaps with God >acting through him Metatron-like, perhaps not) *fathered* Christ on >Mary with Gabriel singing the Celestial Song of Fruition -- making >Gabriel not only present for but the agent of the conception, then >healing Mary of her Virginity at the end. Jesus himself was a >natural 15 potential Force human, awakened at a *very* early age to >his Sixth Force, then acting as a Soldier. In the end, Jesus >achieved his Destiny (the Crucifixion and symbolic redemption of Man, >and the inauguration of Christianity as a religion) and therefore >went to Heaven, where he's been waiting in Yves's Library, very >patiently, to be reborn as a Saint on Earth when Yves thinks the time >is right. A fact kept *very* carefully away from Laurence, Khalid >and other Sectarian patrons -- and part of the reason why Yves will >not speak on the Gabriel/Quran issue. Yves had dictated a testement >that would conceal Eli's (and not God's) involvement with Christ >(making Jesus a prophet, not the Son of God). Gabriel had been >inspired by God to be a hair more forthright. For Yves to speak >would be to unravel his own Christ-Gambit, which would lead more to >Fate than Destiny. I know that in the INS/MV universe, Christ was the child of the Archangel Jesus and Mary. Jesus isn't much of an issue in my campaigns. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com When one door closes another door opens; but we so often look so long and so regretfully upon the closed door, that we do not see the ones which open for us. - --Alexander Graham Bell ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 16:12:33 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Arianism From: "Richard Gant" > > Sorry, but you're wrong. Joseph Smith founded The Church of Jesus Christ > of Latter-day Saints (popularly known as the Mormons), not the Jehovah's > Witnesses. Sorry, that just goes to show that I need to try keeping my sleep deprivation to a minimum. My apologies to anybody I may have offended by switching the two religions about that carelessly. > On the other hand, when is this documentary due out? It premiered Friday, November 26th. For more information on the program, you can visit the homepage at http://www.pbs.org/americanprophet (it just says "check local listings" for airdates, though.) IIRC, in Dallas it'll be showing either tomorrow or Wednesday night. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 18:46:01 -0500 (EST) From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: Re: APG (was Re: IN> INS/MV vs IN SJG) Perry Lloyd wrote: > >I find it interesting that you disallow all supplements. I can see >some some reasons why one would, though. It can create an unfair >situation for those players without the same books AND it can lead >to tightening of the game universe. Me, I just tend to ignore the >main book and whatever supplements whenever I please and attempt to >keep my players up to date. :) I'm not Em, but I didn't use anything but the main rulebook IMC. In fact, I didn't even use all of the stuff in the main book. There were angels, demons, and humans, and that was it. No undead, no saints, no ethereal gods -- just humans and celestials. I did this to make the game universe "closed". I wanted the players to have pretty much full knowledge of every supernatural thing that could happen, so they would be able to figure out what was happening from the evidence. (Plus it helps the players feel ancient and wise.) If there were always new powers they had never heard of showing up, this wouldn't be possible. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 18:04:44 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotates and Vessels At 11:01 AM -0800 12/20/99, Azrael wrote: >What happens when a Kyriotate with a Corporeal Discord like Discoloured >or Crippled or Stigmata >takes a host? Do they suddenly change colour etc...like a chameleon, do they >suddenly lose a limb? Change color, develop the Discord, or, for Crippled, lose the _use_ of the limb. (This is in the APG...) >Do vessle work on the same system of movement as we humans i.e. does amuscle >contract and pull on a bone >in order to create movement? Or do they work on force of will/mystical >movement? Frex, I you were to cut to the bone the flesh around somesones >vessels wrist, severing tendons and muscles etc.. could they still move their >fingers? I'm a nasty realistic sort, and I'd say that if you hamstring a celestial, yeah, they lose the use of that limb. (Oh, good, the GMG backs me up.) I could, however, see arguments the other way. Just make sure that you find out which is which from your GM _before_ you assume that the celestial you took out isn't going to do a Horror Movie Special on you. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 18:30:53 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Using Supplements >>>But we were all very heavy into personal world building, and still are. Maybe it's just a group of people with more time on their hands, I dunno. I always thought it was just pride in personalizing the world the PCs were gaming in.<<< I get the impression you're trolling a wee bit, here, Emily. I mean, I take great pride in the worlds I create (and I've run campaigns in numerous systems), but I generally didn't find that supplements interfered with my ability to personalize my campaigns. I adapted the stuff I liked and ignored the rest. (The Champions campaign I ran for 7 years was an incoherent crazy-quilt of home-brewed setting mixed with the "official" Hero universe, but that made it about as consistent as your average comic book universe anyway. And I was only 16 when I started it, so I can also defend it on those grounds....;)) Not using supplements is a perfectly fine philosophy, but it must be noted that if everyone followed that philosophy, there would be NO RPG industry, and no professional RPG writers, period. Not even the little tiny bit of industry (and the little tiny niche for professional RPG writers) that exists now. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 18:26:29 -0600 From: "Kiara S. Legner" Subject: Re: APG (was Re: IN> INS/MV vs IN SJG) >There's a rumor that I'm prodding at something >completely new for late January, but that's a RUMOR I tell you! A RUMOR! >A vicious evil RUMOR! ALL LIES! LIES! Oh? I see... And I, of course, wasn't tempted out of a ten-year retirement from GMing by someone dangling the IN main book at me, and I of *course* wasn't hooked so quickly on In Nomine that I had to start running a mini-campaign way earlier than originally planned, and I *didn't* just convince the group to all show up two weeks early and kick off the main campaign on New Years' Day, and my mini-campaign hasn't just spawned about, oh, twenty different subplots, and I didn't *really* just have a long series of emails with the poor folks at SJ Games' shipping dept when my pre-ordered GMG showed up and was actually a GM screen that I already owned (they were marvelous about remedying the situation, by the way), and we aren't *really* gaming every night as soon as the young'un's in bed, no, no, this isn't happening at *all*... IN's addictive, for certain... Kiara ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 19:29:35 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotates and Vessels At 6:04 PM -0500 12/20/99, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 11:01 AM -0800 12/20/99, Azrael wrote: > >I could, however, see arguments the other way. Just make sure that you >find out which is which from your GM _before_ you assume that the celestial >you took out isn't going to do a Horror Movie Special on you. That's me! Whoo hoo! It's one of my favorite images from the game, really. I don't see Celestial bodies as supernaturally resistant, so much as inhabited by a force that isn't actually human. So until you manage to whittle all those body hits down, they keep coming back like the Crow.... I introed the World of In Nomine to a group of players with an NPC who was an Angel. They saw her take a bullet straight to the brain, and was rocked back. Much screaming of "NO!" later, she popped up and started punching the shooter, very hard. Ahh... freaked players.... I know it's not doctrinal, but I'm cinematic. Horror-Cinema, perhaps, but heck. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 20:47:10 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Using Supplements > I get the impression you're trolling a wee bit, here, Emily. No, just really really tired. My wording probably isn't at its most brilliant right now. > I mean, I take great pride in the worlds I create (and I've run > campaigns in numerous systems), but I generally didn't find that > supplements interfered with my ability to personalize my campaigns. We played in campaigns that were so divergent from the published material that even reading it was counter-productive. We played an AD&D 2nd Edition game for four years that was based entirely on the music of the band RUSH. (By the end of it, I was willing to commit heinous acts of bodily harm at hearing La Villa Strangiato, but that's another story.) The Cyberpunk games we played were so divergent that the normal races were tossed out in return for something else. This is just the background I come from. And, every time, the GM would look down on the shiny new supplement and new set of rules and say "No". It sticks. > Not using supplements is a perfectly fine philosophy, but it must be noted > that if everyone followed that philosophy, there would be NO RPG industry, > and no professional RPG writers, period. Not even the little tiny bit of > industry (and the little tiny niche for professional RPG writers) that > exists now. I've discovered a few things in the last several years. The number one of these is that you cannot make players go to the store and spend money. It simply _does not happen_. If they do, great! But they just... don't, and requiring that they do is a good way to lose players. I've never told people to not buy them. If people want to, that's fine, and often, they buy the core rules and anything that appeals to them. But I don't use them out of a sense of fairness, out of a realization that most people just don't _care_, and out of a need to avoid the material and bog it down on the players. After 18 months of play, I still had a few players who did not own the In Nomine core book. People just can't keep track of 12-15 books full of source material, and it really isn't fair to expect them to buy them all when they're having trouble making car and rent payments. To alot of people, especially poor college students, a $20 supplement was an amazing luxury. When people don't have money and can't afford the game, the culture springs up that supplements are anathema and one core book is good for an entire group of six people. I was flipping burgers for $4.50/hr when I started gaming, and while there were all these nice books on the shelves, I have never owned any of them. It doesn't take too much math to figure out that a pile of sourcebooks is out of reach. (Well, 10 years ago.) Sure, this doesn't pay for gaming leeches like you and me, David. :) But it's a money thing, and a philosophy thing. Like I said, I'm too old and stodgy to change habits, and those old habits dictated that you bought what you could afford after you froze your ass off walking down to Riders, and you made up the rest. Fact is, Eric and I are the best paid people in our circle of friends, and we _can_ afford these luxuries. But we have to remember that our friends just cannot, and it is singularly unfair to require it of them. And sometimes, I think there is such a tiny gaming industry because it is just too expensive for the targetting age range to keep up with the games they follow. And, in the end, In Nomine supplements, even at the rate of 1/month or 1 every two months, were just too expensive for my players. They bought Night Music, they bought the Liber Reliquarium, and that was, in the end, it. (I think that's a little more coherent, yeah? I've got some coffee here... I know it's a different argument, but I had time to think about it.) - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 19:54:59 CST From: "Wade Hursman" Subject: Re: IN> Shopping for Superiors >Dominic: No idea. Oh come on, he'd be happy with any updated Tax Laws, or changes made by the state legislature. >Janus: No idea. Um, a trip to the nearest hurricane? >Jordi: He doesn't seem into gifts. Kitty litter, or better yet, a membership to PETA. >Marc: What do you get for the Archangel who has everything? Anything. >Yves: I asked him what he wanted, and all he did was smile enigmatically. > Something from the used bookstore on the corner. Most anything will do. Wade Habbalite of Technology, Demon of Telemarketers ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 20:02:42 CST From: "jonh smith" Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1466 >You have? I've only seen it on the list a few times, and not seen >Janus before today, that I recall. > >I'm not a real fan of the Eli=Jesus idea, but what appeal it has >is (1) his Word of Creation makes sense if Eli is in fact the >Creator (and, in both Arian and Trinitarian theology, the Son is >the immediate creative agent of the Father); (2) the name "Eli" >means "my God"; (3) it paints an amusing/interesting irony of >Christ being just as unrecognized and misuderstood in Heaven as >on Earth. > >Earl The reason I have encountered it so often is that we have several characters in our campaign that work for Eli and beleive the theory that he was Christ quite thouroughly. Our GM dosn't really involve himself in the arguments except to say FNORD as often as possibel, and I kind of decided on the above as a reaction. Nothing gets the Eli followers quite as mad as saying that Jesus was actaully Uriel purifying his beleivers with his own blood! And for added fun, this is why Laurence is such a strong proponent of Christianity. It's his bosses church. - -Mark ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 22:02:10 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: IN> Holy Trinity and Beyond I'm sitting here watching a show on the apostles on the History channel, and I was just wondering: If Eli was Jesus Christ, what stopped him from coming back and being several of the Catholic Saints as well? Maybe he was Christ, and St. Stephen, and St. Francis and a whole slew of others. Why stop at just being nailed to a tree? :) - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 22:28:09 EST From: Dreadblade0328@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Arianism In a message dated 12/20/99 3:34:53 PM Central Standard Time, prodigal@ticnet.com writes: << Specifically, the JW's founder (never can remember the name) Joseph Smith, >> Um, ok. Here's this, Joseph Smith founded what? (hint: it's not the Watchtower Society) Joseph Smith is the founder of the LDS church. The founder of the Watchtower Society, and thus the JW church, IIRC, is Charles Russell. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 22:28:58 EST From: Dreadblade0328@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Arianism I see that I wasn't the only one who noticed this. This I am glad to see. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 23:03:16 EST From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotates and Vessels In a message dated 12/20/99 6:34:41 PM Central Standard Time, in-sabre@annotations.com writes: << I introed the World of In Nomine to a group of players with an NPC who was an Angel. They saw her take a bullet straight to the brain, and was rocked back. Much screaming of "NO!" later, she popped up and started punching the shooter, very hard. Ahh... freaked players.... I know it's not doctrinal, but I'm cinematic. Horror-Cinema, perhaps, but heck. >> Reminds me of a cover of a comic book. DC Comics' "The Demon" The cover showed the Demon with arrows sticking out of him, several in the chest, and one in the forehead, yet he was smiling and singing, "Missed me! Missed me! Now ya gotta kiss me!" I always wanted to put that in a campaign. :) Reverend Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 15:54:56 +1100 From: Chris Rose Subject: Re: IN> The Holy Trinity At 10:22 AM 20/12/99 -0500, you wrote: >That *does* kind of work. Not only does "spirit" or "pneuma" or >"ruah" all mean "breath" or (loosely) wind, but Janus is (supposedly) >an Ophanite, which means he's a wheel of fire, and the Holy Spirit >is also symbolized by Fire. Also, Janus is one of the more mysterious >Archangels, like Eli and Yves. > >Earl Janus and Eli are only mysterious because WE STILL DON'T HAVE AN EXTENDED WRITE-UP !! =) I'd kill for extended write-ups of those two. Especially since they both attended a perty thrown by a Mercurian of Destiny last week in my game .... I was sure that Eli was gonna be the fourth in Superiors-3 Blandine, Gabriel, Khalid - they're all a little loopy, spend very little time in heaven ... Hmm, if Eli had been the fouth, you could have called Superiors 3 "Insane and Absent" =) Chris Ofanite of Lightning Angel of Phone Tech Support "Do What Thou Wilt, but Be Cool" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 01:28:42 -0500 From: "Gregory Gietzen" Subject: Re: IN> The Holy Trinity From: Chris Rose > I was sure that Eli was gonna be the fourth in Superiors-3 I'm still waiting for Asmodeus! (Yes, I know, there was one in Heaven & Hell, but I want a *really* extended write-up! GG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 23:37:50 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Using Supplements Actually, we all got out of the habit of using supplements when we were playing Vampire. It was MBO (main book only) because even though I picked up a few of the supplements, I never thought they did much except clutter up the game I had originally liked enough to run. It's a habit you get into. When we were playing IN, my players did like reading the supplements (if I bought them) and if they seemed to especially groove on certain bits, it was a fair bet those things would turn up in the game later. I thought we were doing quite well in that most of them eventually bought a copy of the main rulebook. jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 02:48:43 PST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: APG (was Re: IN> INS/MV vs IN SJG) >From: Neel Krishnaswami > >I'm not Em, but I didn't use anything but the main rulebook IMC. In >fact, I didn't even use all of the stuff in the main book. There were >angels, demons, and humans, and that was it. No undead, no saints, no >ethereal gods -- just humans and celestials. Wow. >I did this to make the game universe "closed". I wanted the players to >have pretty much full knowledge of every supernatural thing that could >happen, so they would be able to figure out what was happening from >the evidence. (Plus it helps the players feel ancient and wise.) If >there were always new powers they had never heard of showing up, this >wouldn't be possible. Wow. I've never, ever done anything close to this before. I'm definitely taking this under consideration. In just about every single game I've run, never have the players had such a finite sense of the world. That must really work to help generate a sense of security and "wisdom" as you call it. Neat! - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com Never touch a butterfly's wing with your finger. - --Colette ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 02:57:30 PST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Using Supplements >Not using supplements is a perfectly fine philosophy, but it must be noted >that if everyone followed that philosophy, there would be NO RPG industry, >and no professional RPG writers, period. Not even the little tiny bit of >industry (and the little tiny niche for professional RPG writers) that >exists now. > >-David So? So what? Not everyone's commentary here on the list needs to be aimed at gearing people up for "BUYING SUPPLEMENTS!!!" I mean, sure it's a living and people saying saying that might threaten that is kinda scary, but . . . chill out. I'd bet that without people who choose to think outside the box provided by supplements and the rules and game world of the main text, we wouldn't HAVE a lot of supplements for our games to begin with. While it's true that supplements probably really are the lifeblood of the RPG industry, that doesn't mean that we all have to say "Supplements aren't just good, they're Grrrrrrreat!" I gotta jet, see y'all in Jan., assuming that the end of the world isn't early by a year due to mass confusion created by the sleepers. Ooops, wrong world. Look out for Annos, Demon of Mistaken Centuries (Balseraph who goes around saying that this New Year's in the transition to the 21st century. He's not really all that powerful. Cute for a game, though. Not fuzzy cute, more like stupid confused cute.) - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com Never touch a butterfly's wing with your finger. - --Colette ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 08:30:23 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Using Supplements > When we were playing IN, my players did like reading the supplements (if I > bought them) and if they seemed to especially groove on certain bits, it was > a fair bet those things would turn up in the game later. I thought we were > doing quite well in that most of them eventually bought a copy of the main > rulebook. Wow. You did considerably better than I did at getting people to buy things. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 10:55:29 -0500 (EST) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Using Supplements For the record, I use almost all of the IN supplements, along with a HEFTY folder worth of house rules, additions, deletions, etc. My players, except my roomate, don't own ANY of the books... frankly, I don't see that it matters. As long as one person owns the books, the others can read through them periodically and get whatever info they need. I always help them with character creation, and they do it at my house, so they have access to whatever I, and everbody else, does. In other words, I don't see why one person buying a supplement would give them any advantage over the others... because the others would just go, "Cool! Lemme see... I want some of those new Songs, too!" (Of course, I forbid quite a few things... not all of this new keen stuff is well-balanced; but the stuff since Revalations has gotten pretty good.) - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! "Human germ!" -- Shrapnel (Decepticon), _Transformers: The Movie_ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 06:55:25 -0800 (PST) From: Wade Trupke Subject: IN> Re: Shopping for Superiors From: "M Trent" >Jordi: a pokemon fan if I ever saw one. 8) You're kidding, right? Let's see: In Pokemon, the player/hero goes around capturing wild animals, keeping them stored in tiny balls (or as files on a computer when he's not using them), trains them to fight, battles them against others who have done the same, then uses them to capture more wild animals, who go throught the whole process again. Oh, and society sees this as a noble and worthwhile endeavor. Pokemon is, when you get down to it, virtual cock fighting. Not something I see Jordi enjoying. Wade (then again, its a fun little game...) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 10:02:57 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Using Supplements > In other words, I don't see why one person buying a supplement would give > them any advantage over the others... because the others would just go, > "Cool! Lemme see... I want some of those new Songs, too!" > > (Of course, I forbid quite a few things... not all of this new keen stuff > is well-balanced; but the stuff since Revalations has gotten pretty good.) This got my brain working a little bit. My gaming group for In Nomine (unlike my other games) was half-guys and half-chicks. Much like the Amber games before them, this seemed to force the game away from "getting stuff" and more toward "getting plot", which caused a certain component of the available sourcebooks of the time (only Rev Cycle) to be moot. There's not a whole big "gee whizz" factor in those kinds of games, and there's not a real big attraction to new toys. Partly, I suspect it's like Jo said -- it's habit, partly it is because the players will _not_ buy the game when they have to buy food (we don't foster too many fanbois in the group), partly it's because the GM (me) just doesn't like alot of the supplement material, especially earlier supplement material, and partly because the players just don't want to learn new rules. We don't have a stock meeting place, and people don't go over to each other's houses to read rules. We don't keep binders of rules around, and we don't obsess too much over them. I've never told people _not_ to buy the supplements. There's always an assumption that I stand in front of my group and tell them that if they buy supplements that they're bad people who should be spanked or something, and that's simply not true. I tell them that I will not be using them, and will never be using them. It's all very much at their own risk. There is a philosophy which states that all the rules should be in the main sourcebook and all of the other material is optional and supplementary. If this _isn't_ true, than there is a problem with the main sourcebook, and that's pretty much all the debate there ever needs to be. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 11:02:22 -0500 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotates and Vessels Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 11:01 AM -0800 12/20/99, Azrael wrote: > >What happens when a Kyriotate with a Corporeal Discord like Discoloured > >or Crippled or Stigmata > >takes a host? Do they suddenly change colour etc...like a chameleon, do they > >suddenly lose a limb? > > Change color, develop the Discord, or, for Crippled, lose the _use_ of the > limb. (This is in the APG...) A more fun question is what happens with the _body's_ corporeal discords when it's possessed by another. There are two cases here: human 'disads' and ethereal/ celestial Discords. IMO, human disads are inherent to the body. Things get fun when you consider vessels, though. You can take the tack that the owner's discords have permanently warped the body until their soul is cleaned. This is easy and it means you can treat bodies and vessels the same. The other way is you assume the vessel is only warped when the warped soul is within it and 'cleans up its act' when it gets possessed. This has fun options as well! Personally, though, I prefer the former. It's easiest... =) - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 08:46:27 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotates and Vessels >From: John Karakash > The other way is you assume the vessel is >only warped when the warped soul is within it and >'cleans up its act' when it gets possessed. This >has fun options as well! That would be very funky. If a prince wanted to make sure that a servitor was never secretly possessed, all he'd have to do is give the lucky demon a really noticeable corporeal discord ... jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 12:02:27 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> The Holy Trinity > From: Chris Rose > > > I was sure that Eli was gonna be the fourth in Superiors-3 > > I'm still waiting for Asmodeus! (Yes, I know, there was one in Heaven & > Hell, but I want a *really* extended write-up! Hey, I'm still chafing at the bit to get an extended writeup on Zadkiel, so nyah. ;;;p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:17:44 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Celestials Who Won't Stay Down (Re: Kyriotates and Vessels) At 11:03 PM -0500 12/20/99, BillionSix@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 12/20/99 6:34:41 PM Central Standard Time, >in-sabre@annotations.com writes: > ><of "NO!" later, she popped up and started punching the shooter, very hard.>> > Reminds me of a cover of a comic book. [...] arrows sticking out of him, >several in the chest, and one in the forehead, yet he was smiling and >singing, "Missed me! Missed me! Now ya gotta kiss me!" Is it just me, or does this sound like a particularly deranged Lust- Servitor who's been hanging out with Kobalites for far too long? (Perhaps a Distincted one...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:22:35 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Speculations (Re: The Holy Trinity) At 3:54 PM +1100 12/21/99, Chris Rose wrote: >I was sure that Eli was gonna be the fourth in Superiors-3 Alas, didn't work out that way. (Okay, class, here's an exercise for you. Take all the Superiors. Organize them into books, with at least 4 per book. (Sometimes you can squeeze in 3 minors and 2 majors, or 4 majors and a minor.) Make the books have themes and catchy titles.) Eli just goes far too well with Novalis and Jordi, the tight "Green Triangle" of Allied/Associated. Yank him out of that one, and who else do you put in with them? Yves? Ummmm.... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:35:15 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Jospeh Smith documentary (WAS Re: IN> Arianism) From: "Prodigal" > > IIRC, in Dallas it'll be showing either tomorrow or Wednesday night. Wednesday night at 8pm, on Channel 13. Those of you who want to know when it will air in your area, can go to http://www.pbs.org/whatson/index.html to g e t local listings. Should make for an interesting show, and I hope to get good IN material out of it, especially where the persecution Joseph Smith and his followers suffered in their early days. Dominic and Malphas are the first two candidates that sprang to mind for me... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:31:53 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Speculations (Re: The Holy Trinity) > Alas, didn't work out that way. (Okay, class, here's an exercise for > you. Take all the Superiors. Organize them into books, with at least > 4 per book. (Sometimes you can squeeze in 3 minors and 2 majors, or > 4 majors and a minor.) Make the books have themes and catchy titles.) > > Eli just goes far too well with Novalis and Jordi, the tight "Green > Triangle" of Allied/Associated. Yank him out of that one, and who > else do you put in with them? Yves? Ummmm.... And no one likes my belief that Eli should be 30 pages of "This Space Left Intentionally Blank". Foo. :) - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:36:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Gant Subject: Re: Jospeh Smith documentary (WAS Re: IN> Arianism) On Tue, 21 Dec 1999, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Should make for an interesting show, and I hope to get good IN material out > of it, especially where the persecution Joseph Smith and his followers > suffered in their early days. Dominic and Malphas are the first two > candidates that sprang to mind for me... I'd been thinking Michael and Malphas, personally. Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/4656/ The Returners Final Fantasy Role-Playing Game Site: http://returners.simplenet.com/ or http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Matrix/5758/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 12:41:55 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: Jospeh Smith documentary (WAS Re: IN> Arianism) > From: "Prodigal" > > g e t local listings. GACK! Oh well, at least now I know another word to avoid... Prodigal Demon of Calling In to Tech Support Without the Product Nearby (Who's wondering if he accidentally included any majordomo commands in this one) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 12:44:53 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: Jospeh Smith documentary (WAS Re: IN> Arianism) From: "Richard Gant" > > > Should make for an interesting show, and I hope to get good IN material out > > of it, especially where the persecution Joseph Smith and his followers > > suffered in their early days. Dominic and Malphas are the first two > > candidates that sprang to mind for me... > > I'd been thinking Michael and Malphas, personally. I like Dominic specifically because, since the flap over Gabriel's role in the creation of Islam, he strikes me as being one of the AAs most likely to go after any new religious movements as heresy. I can see how Michael could have been involved, but he's not my first choice for this. At least, not until after I get achance to see the documentary. ;;;) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 14:57:00 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Re: Jospeh Smith documentary (WAS Re: Arianism) At 12:41 PM -0600 12/21/99, Prodigal wrote: >> From: "Prodigal" >> >> g e t local listings. > >GACK! Oh well, at least now I know another word to avoid... Just on the beginning of a line, that one. I think. (*sigh* I wish that I could teach it to _just_ bounce u n s u b and s u b s c r i b e requests...) >(Who's wondering if he accidentally included any majordomo commands in this >one) Apparently not. O:> (On the plus side, the u n/s u b stuff sometimes catches _spam_... And yes, I'm still waiting on the majordomo guru who was talking about setting up the "approved posters" list for this. *sigh*) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: 21 Dec 1999 12:50:27 -0500 From: jmcbray@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu (Jason F. McBrayer) Subject: Re: IN> Dogma >>>>> "RPK" == Rev Pee Kitty writes: RPK> DOGMA SPOILERS BELOW! I'm jumping in late on this thread, but here are my calls: RPK> On Thu, 9 Dec 1999, Dan Weaver wrote: >> Has anybody used the characters from Dogma in a game of IN? NPC >> material, you know... RPK> I must admit, I have to agree with you, but disagree with you on most of RPK> your translations... >> Loki, Outcast Seraph of Dominic RPK> Definitely a Malakite, but yes, of Dominic. I agree. >> Bartleby, Outcast Elohite of Dominic RPK> Elohite? He was using the Mercurian resonance through the entire movie. He RPK> just turned into a particularly discordant and crazy Impudite. I also saw Bartleby as a Mercurian. The point where he finally snaps (after trying to kill the Last Scion) is a very Mercurian-falling moment. I hadn't given any thought as to who he might have served before being outcast. I more or less agree on the humans. >> Metatron, Seraph of Litheroy (ought to be an Archangel but oh well.) >> Serendipity, Mercurian of Eli RPK> I was actually thinking Menumin of Eli... the weird choir from The RPK> Marches. I saw both Serendipity and Azrael as Lilim (bright and dark). No real reason, it just seemed to go with their jobs. You'd have to assume that Lilim began as angels in this setting. >> Azrael, Habbalite of Nybbas >> The Three Roller Hockey Players, Shedite of Nybbas RPK> Nybbas? Naw. Saminga's more likely. And those kids were RPK> demonlings, more likely to fledge Calabim than anything. I'd make the hockey players Undead, maybe mummies, but probably just zombis. RPK> That's what was the most fun about this movie... picking out all the IN RPK> stuff. It was like an IN adventure brought to the big screen... It really was. Of all the characters, Bartleby and Rufus fit the best into IN terms. - -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu | | The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must hide Yhtill | | forever. R.W. Chambers _The King in Yellow_ | ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1467 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.