From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Feb 7 09:29:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA22975 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:29:02 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) id JAA08640 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:30:36 -0600 Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:30:36 -0600 Message-Id: <199902071530.JAA08640@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1113 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, February 7 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1113 In this digest: IN> Re: Corporeal Player's Guide playtest Re: IN> Corporeal Player's Guide playtest Re: IN> Hearts IN> conversions by EDG Re: IN> conversion rules... [none] IN> zoos, choirs, corporeal player guides IN> Dead Thread IN> CotG IN> 16 year track record, 100% Guaranteed IN> 16 year track record, 100% Guaranteed Re: IN> Existing character converted to WoD stats, for a look-see Re: IN> conversion rules... Re: IN> Existing character converted to WoD stats, for a look-see Re: IN> Armor - Mod vs. Protection IN> Saints q IN> More Nephallim stuff IN> Waiting to hear from you Re: IN> Dead Thread ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:33:17 -0600 From: Shadowstar Subject: IN> Re: Corporeal Player's Guide playtest >Just in case you're not aware, the Corporeal Player's Guide (which will >many others) is now available for playtest on the Pyramid boards. Actually, >at present Chapters 1-4 are available for comment. Chapters 5 and 6 should >be posted soon, and I am in the process of writing chapter 7.... Yes, I've noticed. *grin* Without giving much away, so far, so good... Keep it up. (Though I'll need to make one comment or two on that board in a moment *grin*) >article which I am using as the basis of the section on ghosts). So I get >to accept all the praise and take all the blame. :) Awww, that just means I get more Essence. *evil grin* - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centuryinter.net # Balseraph Marquis of Fate, Demon of Delusions of Granduer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 99 13:48:45 CDT From: redneck@detnet.com (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> Corporeal Player's Guide playtest >Just in case you're not aware, the Corporeal Player's Guide (which will >cover everything you want to know about human characters, including >Soldiers, Saints, sorcerers, undead, Children of the Grigori, ghosts, and >many others) is now available for playtest on the Pyramid boards. Actually, >at present Chapters 1-4 are available for comment. Chapters 5 and 6 should >be posted soon, and I am in the process of writing chapter 7.... > >I am the sole author of this book (though some others are contributing some >material: John Karakash wrote the opening vignette, Redneck wrote the >article which I am using as the basis of the section on ghosts). So I get >to accept all the praise and take all the blame. :) It should be noted that Redneck, who initially wrote that article for Pyramid in the hopes of getting a subscription thereunto, does not have that sub as yet, and as such will have zero input in or observation over how the ghost rules work out. Redneck (it's rough being a first-time IN author, even if the credit will be minimal and the work totally rewritten) Kris Overstreet's email has changed... http://www.detnet.com/redneck/ - Redneck Gaijin Online http://www.wren-spot.com/wlp/ - White Lightning Productions http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/dvpbem/ - In Nomine: Dark Victory PBEM http://www.wren-spot.com/wlp/milkmaid.html - The Magnificent Milkmaid ... respond to redneck@detnet.com please ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:54:25 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Hearts At 2:08 PM +0000 2/5/99, Julian Breen wrote: >In message , Elizabeth McCoy writes >>>Beth, where does the above about demon Hearts not being touchable by >>>other demons come from? I can't find a reference to it. IN (pg 185) says >>>that a demonic Heart may not be _moved_ '...save by its owner or his >>>infernal master.' Then again the IPG says (pg 98) that '...anyone might >>>be able to steal a Heart if his plans were clever enough...' >> >>p. 185 -- "But don't touch them, they're demon's Hearts. If you >>touched one, it would glow red hot until you dropped it." To >>paraquote from memory. > >Hmm. So the Hearts _are_ touchable, only it becomes impossible to handle >them for any length of time. Unless of course you have asbestos >gloves... ;) I wouldn't let them be touched enough by a non-Prince to get the spy- effect, personally. >Next question: Does a celestial *know* when his Heart is >touched/scutinised/moved? I would grin evily and say, "no." Not unless it's touched by a Superior, and the Superior feels like letting you know that he's doing it. (Like if you get a sudden chilly tightness in your chest, you know that Asmodeus has folded his claws about your heart...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 13:31:59 -0800 From: darkelf Subject: IN> conversions by EDG Thanks, EDG! That helps. 'Preciate your work. darkelf - -- - ------------------------------------------------ Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try. -- Yoda Fall down seven times. Get up eight. -- adapted Japanese saying ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 16:23:27 -0500 From: neel@cswv.com (Neel Krishnaswami) Subject: Re: IN> conversion rules... "Perry Lloyd" wrote: > >[Celestial in Mage] > >>But would paradox effect an angel - I mean you might accept a miracle >on the grounds >>of human faith more readily than standard magic... > >If I were the Storyteller, I'd make it so Angels and Demons don't have >to worry about paradox as much as the magi do. I'd say that like the >garou and vampires, angels and demons should have their own rules to >play by, with their own weaknesses. Perhaps the Storyteller could whip >up a few weaknesses for Angels (not unlike silver for the garou and >sunlight/fire for the kindred) - maybe anything "unholy" would do >aggravated damage. Mythologically, angels have God on their side, which kind of puts a limit on the size of the weaknesses half of the ledger. Maybe give them a code of conduct as a limit -- they have to act in holy fashion, maybe. (Of course, to give them edge you might want to distinguish "holy" from "nice" or "friendly.") There's the bit in C.S. Lewis's _The Silver Chair_ where the girl Jill Pole asks Aslan (Christ-analogue for Narnia, where he appears as a giant lion) whether he eats little girls, and Aslan replies along the lines of "I have destroyed boys and girls, men and women, cities and kingdoms." Very nicely done. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswv.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:55:10 -0600 (Central Standard Time) From: randell.wolff@murraystate.edu (Randell Wolff) Subject: [none] >Steel Angel wrote >> Okay, this isn't a WoD list. There are lots (some of which I'm on) and >>this thread seems to be going on -just- a bit long, hm? Not to be rude >>at all, mind you. :) >Agreed. Which is why I took the thread off list already. >Ramesh I know that this isn't the WoD listserv, but I think that this thread is still relevant. It must be, since so many people--IN players and refs--are talking about it. I don't play GURPS, but I don't object to people talking about the GURPS conversion of IN on this list. So let up, and let these people speak. We're all just trying to enhance our games--what's wrong with that? Randell Wolff * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * The clockers born starin' at an empty plate Momma's torn hands cover her sunken face We hungry but them belly full The structure is set, ya never change it with a ballot pull . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . So now I'm rollin' down Rodeo with a shotgun - --Rage Against the Machine, "Down Rodeo" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 15:58:29 PST From: "Martin Arnold" Subject: IN> zoos, choirs, corporeal player guides Roland wrote: "Safari parks would be Jordi's - zoo's are gradually becoming more Angelically biased (as they become more proactive in the survival of rare species). Originally zoo's would have to be Kobal - animals used to be kept in appalling conditions for the mere amusement of visitors who came to gawk at the funny creatures." Well, i argued that zoos were Vapulan because they were using technology (as in artifical means, environments what have you) to 'help' (in other words oppress and stifle) animals. Although the Kobalite idea is a very valid one. I just cant see Jordi accepting any 'civilised' authority over animals - even with the best of intentions (in other words do zoos ever work?). If species live or die by the grace of god then that's just the Natural Law; if civilisation intervenes (ie modern man - Jordi would still stand up for the animal in man i think) then it seems 'Vapulan'. Earl worote: "We are given to understand that there are additional choirs beyond the major seven. The Menuim and Pachadim have been documented. The Concordians were put forward..." Whoa, stop right there! :-) Please tell me more abnout the Concordians - am i to assume they represent order (as in the opposite of discordians)? Actually speaking of minor choirs, just how minor are they? Like the minor superiors they seem to be given short shrift in ever subsequent book, is there a reason for this. They cant be that minor. And what about the Tsayadim, is there anything on them? David wrote: "the Corporeal Player's Guide (which will cover everything you want to know about human characters, including Soldiers, Saints, sorcerers, undead, Children of the Grigori, ghosts, and many others" Just a few questions ;-) How much more info on Saints and Soldiers etc. is there after the treatment given in Night Music, has this been completely changed? How thorough will the Children of Grigori information be? Is it going to continue to be vagu(i thought it came under the auspices of CoDU)? Does it cover the Nephalim? Thank you and Goodnight, Elvis has just left the building (those are his footprints right there...) - - Martin "ug, ug, ug, ug": Popeye ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:05:19 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Dead Thread At 5:55 PM -0600 2/5/99, Randell Wolff wrote: >>Steel Angel wrote >>>Okay, this isn't a WoD list. There are lots (some of which I'm on) >>>and this thread seems to be going on -just- a bit long, hm? Not to >>>be rude at all, mind you. :) > >>Agreed. Which is why I took the thread off list already. >>Ramesh > >I know that this isn't the WoD listserv, but I think that this thread is >still relevant. It must be, since so many people--IN players and >refs--are talking about it. I don't play GURPS, but I don't object to >people talking about the GURPS conversion of IN on this list. So let >up, and let these people speak. We're all just trying to enhance our >games--what's wrong with that? The message that was being replied to had no IN content. The conversion stuff, fine. The stuff that doesn't even mention IN? If it had gone on much longer, I'd have asked for it to be removed myself, as the List admin. Now that we've established that this thread is dead, don't post to it anymore, 'kay? - --Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Demons/Prince.Beth.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:06:41 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> CotG At 3:58 PM -0800 2/5/99, Martin Arnold wrote: >How thorough will the Children of Grigori information be? Is it going to >continue to be vagu(i thought it came under the auspices of CoDU)? It comes under the auspices of 'not enough room in the main book, data not published yet.' - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:50:37 EST From: DKINFLUX@aol.com Subject: IN> 16 year track record, 100% Guaranteed Start Earning a Nice Steady Income GUARANTEED or Your Money Back !!! With a REAL BUSINESS as a licensed associate of a Very Unusual FREE monthly shopping paper. Sixteen years of successful local operation, now expanding nationwide. Only $29 gets you started. No Selling, No Mail-outs, No Advertising and No MLM. You can easily earn $900-$1200 per week with this genius, honest business. Complete recorded details 24 hours at 1-800-350-9692 or 281-315-1069. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:45:52 EST From: BHARTZOG27@aol.com Subject: IN> 16 year track record, 100% Guaranteed Start Earning a Nice Steady Income GUARANTEED or Your Money Back !!! With a REAL BUSINESS as a licensed associate of a Very Unusual FREE monthly shopping paper. Sixteen years of successful local operation, now expanding nationwide. Only $29 gets you started. No Selling, No Mail-outs, No Advertising and No MLM. You can easily earn $900-$1200 per week with this genius, honest business. Complete recorded details 24 hours at 1-800-350-9692 or 281-315-1069. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 22:05:07 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Existing character converted to WoD stats, for a look-see It might help if they saw the In Nomine stats, too. :) Just a thought. :) >Name: Chrys Parker Word: Drugs Dissonance: 1 >Player: EDG Choir/Band: Lilim Home: Destroyed/The Ship >Campaign: Perry's Forces: 9 Group: The Heroes - -Perry, KFC Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "...Love is kind...love never fails...." 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 22:15:33 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> conversion rules... [WoD/In Nomine Mixer] >Mythologically, angels have God on their side, which kind of puts a >limit on the size of the weaknesses half of the ledger. Maybe give >them a code of conduct as a limit -- they have to act in holy fashion, >maybe. (Of course, to give them edge you might want to distinguish >"holy" from "nice" or "friendly.") Well, the angels might have God on their side . . . but does that mean anything in WoD? I had the impression that the "God" of the world must be either (a) not very active or (b) a mean sonovabitch >There's the bit in C.S. Lewis's _The Silver Chair_ where the girl Jill Pole >asks Aslan (Christ-analogue for Narnia, where he appears as a giant lion) >whether he eats little girls, and Aslan replies along the lines of "I have >destroyed boys and girls, men and women, cities and kingdoms." Very nicely >done. "Yes, let's go with Door Number 2, Bob." (sonovabitch) - -Perry, KFC Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "...Love is kind...love never fails...." 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 22:22:51 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Existing character converted to WoD stats, for a look-see Quiet, you. I'll post 'em tonight. - -- Exquisite Dead Guy x2556, EH 210, box 319 159.28.165.120 "Jesus saves. Roll for initiative." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 22:23:56 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Armor - Mod vs. Protection Dear List, Why does wearing armor make it harder for peope to hit you? And, since it does that already, why does it also provide you with a Protection value? Last gaming session I introduced armor to the group for the first time. Wow . . . talk about an arguement over system mechanics. I was able to settle it by changing the Mod. value from subtracting from the attacker's to-hit target number to adding it to the defender's Dodge roll. Thoughts? Comments? Concerns? Answers to my first question? Thank you for your bandwidth, - -Perry, Kyriotate of Flowers serving Creation and sometimes Tanniael, Archangel of Tea Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "...Love is kind...love never fails...." 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 22:39:31 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Saints q >>>Would a demon prince be able to create an anti-saint from amongst the ranks of damned souls, if they wanted to? How about having dead but damned souls returned to earth in other ways that could help their infernal masters?<<< Probably not. Demon Princes might have the power, but they don't have the knowledge -- binding human souls to a corporeal body is a secret the Archangels have kept to themselves. (At least that's how I'm writing it in the CPG.) Even if Demon Princes could make infernal Saints, they wouldn't, because a human soul given a corporeal body on Earth will run away at the first opportunity. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 01:16:55 EST From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: IN> More Nephallim stuff Been thinking about the Nephallim some more and came up with a couple ideas. The Nephallim have been described as monstrous or malevolent. This could mean a number of things. Monstrous physically, i.e. deformed, monstrous mentally i.e. insane. or monstrous spiritually, i.e. evil (malevolent). This, in my mind, equals corporeal, ethereal, and celestial discord. So here's my idea. The Nephallim are (successful or unsuccessful, depending on point of view) attempts to mate corporeal and celestial beings. Mostly these attempts fail, and the result is human, although perhaps with the potential for an additional Force. Sometimes however, the celestial potential is passed down, with shall we say, mixed results. The union of corporeal and celestial beings shouldn't happen, you see. It can't, actually, without help (Songs). We'll assume the Grigori know the Songs of Fruition, or can mate with humans naturally as part of their basic nature. In game terms, an adult Nephallim has 7 Forces, and characteristics can go up to 12. They can learn Songs from all three realms, assuming they can find someone to teach them. (Probably their celestial parent) Like humans, they are bound to their bodies until death. They can sense the symphony, and symphonic disturbance, though they do not disturb the symphony with their actions unless they spend essence in a controlled manner, or use Songs. Now the bad news. Discord, Discord, Discord!!!! Because there Forces are unnatural, not fully human or angelic/demonic, none of their Forces are intact. They are required to choose discord of all three types, at a level equal to the Forces in question. (i.e. a Nephallite with 2 Corporeal Forces must choose a Level 2 Corporeal Discord) The Nephallim in question will have 7 levels of Discord, of each type, Corporeal, Ethereal, and Celestial. Unfair? Certainly, but where is it written that life is fair? The only good side to this is that they do get points from these Discords. An Archangel, or Demon Prince could, theoretically even out the kinks in their Forces, taking away their Discord as they do with angels and demons, but, hey, why bother, right? If a Nephallim gains additional Forces, these Forces may or may not be flawed, depending on their source. If they were granted by an Archangel or Prince (fat chance), they will most likely be undamaged. If they developed naturally through experience and hard work, they may well share the flaws of the other Forces. (adding a level to the appropriate Discord) As you can see, a character with these strengths and flaws could easily be seen as monstrous. A Nephallim with Ugly/2, Angry/2, and Lustful/3 isn't going to be much fun on dates. But then again, many Nephallim might not be that bad. They, of course, are even more tragic, since they have to share the reputation of their more evil brethren. Let me know your thoughts on this. Thank you and Good Day, Brian A Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 07:58:49 From: shorty1084@hotmail.com Subject: IN> Waiting to hear from you We have the sexiest women in the world waiting to talk live to you. NO 1-900 fees. NO credit card needed. NO Overseas number. Just regular long distance charges. So what are you waiting for? CALL NOW!!! 1-473-473-4917 To be removed: reply with "remove" in the subject line and you will not receive any more messages from this email address. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 15:25:22 -0000 From: "Ramesh Satkurunath" Subject: Re: IN> Dead Thread Elizabeth McCoy wrote on 05 February >Now that we've established that this thread is dead, don't post to it >anymore, 'kay? Before I say anything I'd like to say I agree 100% with Beth this is an In Nomine list, so discussions held here should centre strongly around In Nomine or it detracts from the value of this list. However there do appear to be a number of people interested in talking about this furthur. I have already taken this conversation furthur off-line and if anyone out there is at all interested in also continuing this conversation please contact me at: ramesh.sat@telinco.co.uk Sorry for writing on this thread Beth but I felt it was the best thing to do. Ramesh aka Demon of Fiddling ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1113 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.