From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Feb 8 14:25:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA17413 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:25:20 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) id OAA01944 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:24:25 -0600 Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:24:25 -0600 Message-Id: <199902082024.OAA01944@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1114 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, February 8 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1114 In this digest: IN> Re: Hearts IN> Corporeal Player's Guide playtest IN> Minor Choirs IN> Corporeal Player's Guide playtest IN> More Nephallim stuff Re: IN> Minor Choirs Re: IN> More Nephallim stuff IN> IN: Eli & the ethereals Re: IN> IN: Eli & the ethereals Re: IN> Corporeal Player's Guide playtest Re: IN> Armor - Mod vs. Protection Re: IN> Armor - Mod vs. Protection Re: IN> Re: Hearts IN> Sorcery Question Re: IN> Sorcery Question Re: IN> Armor - Mod vs. Protection Re: IN> Re: Hearts IN> Submissions, Control and Infernal Saints Re: IN> Waiting to hear from you Re: IN> Waiting to hear from you IN> [ADMIN] Spam ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 15:10:34 -0500 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> Re: Hearts >Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:41:20 -0500 >From: Elizabeth McCoy >. 185 -- "But don't touch them, they're demon's Hearts. If you >touched one, it would glow red hot until you dropped it." To >paraquote from memory. So Baron's of the Demonic Brazier have no problems then. Being immune to heat and flames. And anyone they touch. Adam ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:23:52 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Corporeal Player's Guide playtest >It should be noted that Redneck, who initially wrote that article for Pyramid in the hopes of getting a subscription thereunto, does not have that sub as yet, and as such will have zero input in or observation over how the ghost rules work out.< Hey, it's only 15 lousy bucks. Buy a sub, and then take the check when the article is published. If you want, though, I can e-mail you the reworked section on ghosts -- since you are the primary source, I think I can get away with that. ;) I would have liked to just edit and include the entire article, but it's about 8 pages, and I only have room for 2 pages on ghosts in the CPG. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:29:55 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Minor Choirs >Whoa, stop right there! :-) Please tell me more abnout the Concordians - am i to assume they represent order (as in the opposite of discordians)? < They were initially proposed for the Liber Canticorum -- they were basically a Choir of angels who create really powerful effects en masse by singing in perfectly synchronized choruses. Not suitable as PCs because they are almost devoid of individuality, and totally ineffective by themselves. They may find their way into another supplement someday. >>>Actually speaking of minor choirs, just how minor are they? Like the minor superiors they seem to be given short shrift in ever subsequent book, is there a reason for this. They cant be that minor.<<< All minor Choirs and Bands are intended to be supporting cast, generally not suitable for PCs and not the sort of angels or demons who'd be sent to Earth except for very specific tasks. (I have some minor Choirs and Bands I've written myself....someday they may appear in a supplement, or in a Pyramid article, or maybe I'll just post 'em to the list.) >>>And what about the Tsayadim, is there anything on them?<<< The Tsayadim aren't a Choir -- they are the remaining Servitors of Purity, who belong to every Choir (mostly Malakim, though). - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:31:35 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Corporeal Player's Guide playtest >>>Just a few questions ;-) How much more info on Saints and Soldiers etc. is there after the treatment given in Night Music, has this been completely changed?<<< Not completely changed, but greatly revised. >>>How thorough will the Children of Grigori information be? Is it going to continue to be vagu(i thought it came under the auspices of CoDU)?<<< No, they'll be covered in fair detail (unless the section gets cut...) The Grigori themselves won't be covered here, though. >>>Does it cover the Nephalim?<<< Yes. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:35:12 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> More Nephallim stuff >>>Let me know your thoughts on this.<<< I'm impressed. You described my write-up of the Nephallim in the CPG almost perfectly. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 11:03:16 +0000 From: Mark Baker Subject: Re: IN> Minor Choirs Minor choirs might be intended as supporting cast, but some can be interesting to play and actually valuable to a party of angels. (I can't comment on how useful the demonic bands are). As a roleplayer, I find that playing a Menunite is more of a challenge than my other main character, a Mercurian. Of course, Rebekkah is a Dissonance magnet, and given Blandine's laissez faire attitude to such problems she's now bound to her corporeal body at level 2. It doesn't interfere with her work in the corporeal or the ethereal, but that nagging discordant note in her being is beginning to affect her mental state. Add to that the fact that the party is starting to run into the servitors of Dominic, with whom she has a personal grudge after they zorched a renegade just as she'd persuaded the girl to return to the welcoming arms of heaven. Now there's a challenge to a player. - -- Mark Baker (L'Ange de l'Abime) aka. Simeon, Mercurian of Novalis aka. Rebekkah, Menunite of Blandine "Some of my best friends are demons. You know where you stand with them." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 06:19:17 EST From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> More Nephallim stuff In a message dated 2/7/99 7:38:15 PM Central Standard Time, AmadanSJG@compuserve.com writes: > >>>Let me know your thoughts on this.<<< > > I'm impressed. You described my write-up of the Nephallim in the CPG almost > perfectly. > > -David > > Really? Cool!! Where did I differ? Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 08:30:01 -0500 (EST) From: "Diane J. Donaldson" Subject: IN> IN: Eli & the ethereals I've been running the No Dinero scenario, and in the middle my group went on hiatus for a few weeks. Which gave me time to think more about what exactly is happening in that plot. Spoilers follow... Thor is wandering around shell-shocked, looking for his hammer. Loki is causing trouble for both sides. I hypothesize that Odin actually sent Loki to help out Thor, but Loki, being the trickster god that he is, decided to have some fun instead. He's well known for getting the Norse gods in trouble, and then getting them back out once they catch him and threaten grievous bodily harm. I re-read a lot of my Norse mythology, and another thing that jumped out was that Freya, goddess of love and war, had a husband named Od (actually a 'th' sound, but that doesn't show up on this keyboard). She spent lots of time looking for him, since he was always off travelling somewhere. The name Od can mean "passed through". Doesn't this sound a little like....Eli? Could be an interesting campaign twist. Eli is Freya's occasional lover. He's always thought Uriel's purge was misguided. The ethereals are part of God's creation, and there is no harm in most of them. According to Revelations 2: The Marches, the Norse pantheon is one of the strongest pantheons left. Having an Archangel on your side, even if nobody knows about it, would certainly help keep that pantheon strong. I've also wondered if Eli was also Elijah, who supposedly became an angel after he died. Since humans can't become angels in IN, then I conclude he must have been an angel all along, and why not Eli? Many Jews still set a place for him. Imagine sitting down to dinner, hearing a knock on the door, and having Eli walk in and sit in his/Elijah's place. Or maybe I've just been reading too many Kenneth Hite articles... djd ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:19:38 -0000 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: Re: IN> IN: Eli & the ethereals > I've also wondered if Eli was also Elijah, who supposedly became an angel after he died. You might want to look at http://www.btinternet.com/~jhart/IN_Jewish.html for some thoughts on this. Then again, you might not ;) jo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 99 10:15:27 CDT From: redneck@detnet.com (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> Corporeal Player's Guide playtest >>It should be noted that Redneck, who initially wrote that article for >Pyramid in the hopes of getting a subscription thereunto, does not have >that >sub as yet, and as such will have zero input in or observation over how the >ghost rules work out.< > >Hey, it's only 15 lousy bucks. Buy a sub, and then take the check when the >article is published. > >If you want, though, I can e-mail you the reworked section on ghosts -- >since you are the primary source, I think I can get away with that. ;) > >I would have liked to just edit and include the entire article, but it's >about 8 pages, and I only have room for 2 pages on ghosts in the CPG. > That would be appreciated, although I expect 4 pages minimum were saved by lopping out the sample characters. Redneck Kris Overstreet's email has changed... http://www.detnet.com/redneck/ - Redneck Gaijin Online http://www.wren-spot.com/wlp/ - White Lightning Productions http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/dvpbem/ - In Nomine: Dark Victory PBEM http://www.wren-spot.com/wlp/milkmaid.html - The Magnificent Milkmaid ... respond to redneck@detnet.com please ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 11:36:36 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Armor - Mod vs. Protection At 10:23 PM -0500 2/5/99, Perry Lloyd wrote: >Dear List, > >Why does wearing armor make it harder for peope to hit you? Probably a leftover from DR and PD (Damage Resistance and Passive Defense), both of which are used in GURPS. (In GURPS, PD adds to Dodge, IIRC.) The concept is that wearing something besides skin means that a weapon may get tangled and/or simply glance off, not touching you at all or damaging the armor. Feel free to ignore the modifier, but I'd boost the Protection if I did so. (Probably to the modifier's level (giving Heavy Clothing a Protection of 1, Leather a Protection of 3, etc.) or half the modifier's level (so HC has a Protection of 0 (round down!), Leather has a Protection of 2, Steel Plating has a Protection of 5, etc.)). - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 11:57:58 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Armor - Mod vs. Protection Elizabeth Spake: >At 10:23 PM -0500 2/5/99, Perry Lloyd wrote: >>Dear List, >> >>Why does wearing armor make it harder for peope to hit you? > >Probably a leftover from DR and PD (Damage Resistance and Passive >Defense), both of which are used in GURPS. (In GURPS, PD adds to >Dodge, IIRC.) The concept is that wearing something besides skin >means that a weapon may get tangled and/or simply glance off, not >touching you at all or damaging the armor. > >Feel free to ignore the modifier, but I'd boost the Protection if I >did so. (Probably to the modifier's level (giving Heavy Clothing >a Protection of 1, Leather a Protection of 3, etc.) or half the >modifier's level (so HC has a Protection of 0 (round down!), Leather >has a Protection of 2, Steel Plating has a Protection of 5, etc.)). Cool, thanks. Good idea, that, raising the protection for want of a penalty to the attacker's to hit. I figure that adding the Mod. to the defenders Dodge should more than balance it out. I don't think it's correct (since I still cling to the concept of Passive Defense), but it seems to please my players. The whole "glance off" thing doesn't really resonante with them. - -Perry, ONE Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "...Love is kind...love never fails...." 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 11:40:21 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Hearts At 3:10 PM -0500 2/7/99, Adam Canning wrote: >>Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:41:20 -0500 >>From: Elizabeth McCoy >>. 185 -- "But don't touch them, they're demon's Hearts. If you >>touched one, it would glow red hot until you dropped it." To >>paraquote from memory. > >So Baron's of the Demonic Brazier have no problems then. >Being immune to heat and flames. And anyone they touch. (No wonder Gabriel hates Belial -- she can't SMITE him...) Congratulations, you are now a Servitor of Nitpicking. Any GM who lets the PCs get away with that should do so with the full knowledge that he can start inflicting dissonance instead of heat if he doesn't want people playing with other demons' Hearts. - --Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Demons/Prince.Beth.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 12:04:52 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Sorcery Question I'm sorry, I don't recall if you've already answered this question, but if so then it shouldn't take much time at all to remind me. According to The Marches, a sorceror can summon ethereal spirits as well as demonlings. One thing is nagging me, however. Canon, IIRC, says that no one can come to the Corporeal Plane without a vessel; I believe that most demonlings and ethereal spirits do not *possess* vessels, therefore the likelihood of ever successfully summoning a demonling goes down significantly, as does summoning an ethereal spirit (like a Dream Fragment, how many of *those* have vessels?). Am I to assume that the majority of a Sorceror's summonings occur on the Ethereal Plane (where Beleth's spies are), or is there some special case for bringing Ethereals and Demonlings to earth without vessels? - -Perry, ONE Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "...Love is kind...love never fails...." 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 12:17:03 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Sorcery Question At 12:04 PM -0500 2/8/99, Perry Lloyd wrote: >I'm sorry, I don't recall if you've already answered this question, but >if so then it shouldn't take much time at all to remind me. > >According to The Marches, a sorceror can summon ethereal spirits as well >as demonlings. One thing is nagging me, however. I *know* I sent this in as errata, blessit. But it's not up. Grr. An ethereal spirit requires a vessel to manifest on the corporeal plane. A sorcerer may, at the GM's option, suck an ethereal into some kind of binding jar (in effect, giving it a temporary "vessel" just as someone Bound into a ring would have). Of course, the Sorcery rules are going to be fixed *anyway* elsewhere... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 99 12:24 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Armor - Mod vs. Protection >Why does wearing armor make it harder for peope to hit you? And, since >it does that already, why does it also provide you with a Protection >value? This is actually perfectly reasonable. Armor can work in one or both of two ways: - it can deflect blows (especially one that's not "dead on") - it can absorb the energy of a blow Plate armor, for example, is generally designed to do both, while Kevlar generally is only good for energy absorption. The hypothetical "reflec armor" often used in SF games as armor against laser weapons generally only does the first. The effectiveness of various types of armor at handling different types of weapons and blows is hard to model very accurately, but the split between deflection and absorption is a fairly simple and decent approximation. It may be overkill for a "cinematic" system like IN, since that model is most often associated with more realism-oriented game systems. The old classic, D&D, only modeled armor by deflection effect -- it didn't absorb damage at all. I believe some other games systems have used only absorption. But the two-parameter armor model used by IN is fairly common. For example, GURPS uses the same sort of armor mechanics, but can add a lot of additional complexity with various kinds of damage, varying armor by body location, weapons and armor with specialized mechanics, etc. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 99 12:31 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Re: Hearts >>From: Elizabeth McCoy >>. 185 -- "But don't touch them, they're demon's Hearts. If you >>touched one, it would glow red hot until you dropped it." To >>paraquote from memory. > >So Baron's of the Demonic Brazier have no problems then. >Being immune to heat and flames. And anyone they touch. It may not be real fire-like heat, but simply something that's *felt* as heat. I'd lean toward that explanation, since it's presumably some kind of interaction between the personal symphonies of the demons involved. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 10:17:06 PST From: "Martin Arnold" Subject: IN> Submissions, Control and Infernal Saints Redneck: "It should be noted that Redneck, who initially wrote that article for Pyramid in the hopes of getting a subscription thereunto, does not have that sub as yet, and as such will have zero input in or observation over how the ghost rules work out." How dies the submissions process work then? If thauthor is using your wiork as the basis for his or hers, do they ask, do they have to? Surely if your work is good enpuigh in the first instance, why does this need to happen; why does it need to be changed? As a consumer this is a little disturbing. And no I'm not looking for an argument. Beth: "Now that we've established that this thread is dead, don't post to it anymore, 'kay?" Is this kind of control necessary - I didn't notice anyone making a similar point about all the GURPS conversions? I doubt whether there's anyone on this list to whom everything is relevant. I honestly don't believe this kind of control is healthy to debate or development of anything, IN in particular. Why does the list have to be controlled in the first place, it's not as if the this is a neo-nazi forum is it! And no I'm not looking for an argument. David: "Probably not. Demon Princes might have the power, but they don't have the knowledge -- binding human souls to a corporeal body is a secret the Archangels have kept to themselves. (At least that's how I'm writing it in the CPG.) Even if Demon Princes could make infernal Saints, they wouldn't, because a human soul given a corporeal body on Earth will run away at the first opportunity." How come the DP's don't have this knowledge then? Did it come about after the last AA fell (Alaemon, I believe) or do AA's automatically forget this upon falling. And just where would an Infernal Saint run? His body isn't immortal, presumably. I cant imagine Hell restricting themselves in such a way (it is a war after all) by just saying 'no infernal saints'. Martin ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 11:28:46 -0800 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> Waiting to hear from you shorty1084@hotmail.com wrote: > > We have the sexiest women in the world waiting to talk live to > you. NO 1-900 fees. NO credit card needed. NO Overseas number. > Just regular long distance charges. So what are you waiting for? > CALL NOW!!! 1-473-473-4917 > > To be removed: reply with "remove" in the subject line and you > will not receive any more messages from this email address. I do hope this is being dealt with...harshly. :) Spam filter obviously didn't nick this one. - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 20:11:37 -0500 (EST) From: A Standing Ovation Subject: Re: IN> Waiting to hear from you > > > > We have the sexiest women in the world waiting to talk live to > > you. NO 1-900 fees. NO credit card needed. NO Overseas number. > > Just regular long distance charges. So what are you waiting for? > > CALL NOW!!! 1-473-473-4917 > > > > To be removed: reply with "remove" in the subject line and you > > will not receive any more messages Servitors of Lust strike again? Starsurfer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 15:17:45 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> [ADMIN] Spam At 11:28 AM -0800 2/9/99, Steel Angel wrote: >shorty1084@hotmail.com wrote: [spam clipped] > I do hope this is being dealt with...harshly. :) Spam filter obviously >didn't nick this one. > >- Abracax: Shedite of Riots I deal with all spam as it comes in, and know that some other users also complain. (http://spam.abuse.net is a useful place to go to learn more about how to help me fight the stuff.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1114 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.