From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Feb 12 16:28:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (root@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA10329 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:28:23 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) id QAA10893 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:02:15 -0600 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:02:15 -0600 Message-Id: <199902122202.QAA10893@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1118 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, February 12 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1118 In this digest: Re: IN> Shedim of Asmodeus Re: IN> Calabim site Re: IN> Submissions, Control and Infernal Saints Re: IN> IN writing and editing Re: IN> infernal saints, sephiroth, submission and control (hmmm!) IN> Trying to picture this and failing Re: IN> Redemption Pamphlet Re: IN> Trying to picture this and failing Re: IN> Trying to picture this and failing Re: IN> Trying to picture this and failing Re: IN> La Pizzeria Re: IN> La Pizzeria Re: IN> La Pizzeria Re: IN> La Pizzeria Re: IN> La Pizzeria IN> Game Resource Re: IN> La Pizzeria IN> 257 WAYS? IN> Testing question... IN> Wind attunement ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:11:38 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Shedim of Asmodeus At 3:48 AM -0500 2/11/99, Niccolo wrote: > Do Shedim of Asmodeus have to take a Role, considering that they >jump from host to host? No -- but since they don't *have* to jump, they can. (types beth briefly, while on the phone) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:40:17 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Calabim site At 2:55 AM -0800 2/11/99, Hydrax 59 wrote: >If the Admin of >this list doesn't want this sort of thing going on on his/her/its list >(no offense intended to anyone), Then please tell me, and I'll stop >doing it (whimper, slink away). That would be me... I don't mind you doing a web-site, so long as you don't tell us about it *every day*... O:> - --Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Demons/Prince.Beth.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:57:43 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Submissions, Control and Infernal Saints At 2:47 AM +0000 2/9/99, Ramesh Satkurunath wrote: >[...] A question about why >angels don't get Paradox (just an example not at dig you Roland) isn't >really an IN discussion and as such shouldn't be here. Actually, I'd class that as marginal -- it's still about angels, but it's dealing with Paradox, which is exclusively WW. If it didn't go on very long, then it would be okay, but it's basically "putting IN angels into the cosmology of WW" (not vice versa -- i.e., the WW content is higher than the IN content), so should go to private email as soon as the people interested know they're interested. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:54:16 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> IN writing and editing At 11:17 AM -0500 2/11/99, Walter Milliken wrote: >>David: "He submitted it as an article for Pyramid, which means it >>becomes the property of SJG. >> >>I see. That would happen to everything submitted I take it; it is then >>SJG's to do with what they will. > >Yes. This is clear if you read the submission guidelines. http://www.sjgames.com/general/guidelines/writers/ And anyone who submits someting *without* reading the guidelines is, quite frankly, not very bright and the chances of them actually getting published anyway are far, far, far smaller than any Divine Intervention. (Yes, that's harsh. Just about every published author or editor will be just as blunt, because that's the way it is in any branch of the publishing industry.) (And all editors have horror stories about how many people send stuff to them *without* reading the guidelines of what that editor's magazine/publishing company will *publish*. Which doesn't say nice things about authors.) >> I understand stuff needs to be edited I just >>wondered whether the author, on occasion is ever consulted (regardless >>of property issues) as to whether the new writer is changing the rules >>for the 'worse'/missing the point. > >An editor isn't a "new writer".... Definitely not. Furthermore: every editor answers to the Line Editor for the line, and ultimately to SJ himself. If they make a change that affects the rules (GURPS, IN, INWO) or the shared background (IN or Trav), the Line Editor will notice (absent things like illness and personal tragedies, which can make anyone braindead). If the change is appropriate, then it is appropriate. If it is not, the Line Editor will change it to something that is. >> This isn't an issue of pride; if the >>original work was considered good enough to be used then doesn't the >>process of editing - inevitable I know - risk ruining the quality of the >>original? > >No. Strange as it may seem, a lot of "usable" material still needs >editing. Sometimes it's for consistency, sometimes it's simply to >improve clarity. Editing is *not* the same as writing... ask Elizabeth >sometime. What he said. "Good enough to use" is nowhere *near* "good enough to print as-is", though every author should *strive* to submit material that *is* good enough to print as-is. (If they don't, the editor will take one look at the sloppy mess and ask someone else to write the desired material, or reject the thing out of the slushpile.) At a minimum, copy-editing is required to catch little glitches and typos that the author was simply too close to, to see. (The author knows what s/he *meant*, and often cannot see when what was meant is different from what's actually on the page. I've encountered this phenomenon many times, myself.) I think the only item I can cite which wasn't edited at all, _that I recall_, was 200 words. It's in Marion Zimmer Bradley's _Sword & Sorceress_ anthology, #7. I think you'll recognize the author, even if she was only 17 at the time. [...] >editor generally should win -- consistency is important in a >multi-author product line. What he said, in spades. Consistency is *VITAL*. >Presumably it will still be in Pyramid someday. Just because the ideas >are summarized elsewhere doesn't mean the full article won't see the >light of day. Usually, though, the article would appear first, and the >adaptation into the actual product line would come afterward. Among other reasons, normally I wouldn't have *seen* the material. However, I saw a draft of Ghosts, liked it a lot, and when the CPG came up, I said, "Look, there's a lot of stuff already written on this, and I liked it a lot. Let me get Scott to give me the article." Then I hunted down Redneck and asked him about this (and that took a little hunting, because I couldn't find his new email for a while). I admit, this is a fairly unusual situation. Most of the time, the material will be printed first, and adapted into a book second. (See GURPS Ultra-Tech 2 and the online Roleplayer articles...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:55:38 -0000 From: "Ramesh Satkurunath" Subject: Re: IN> infernal saints, sephiroth, submission and control (hmmm!) Martin Arnold wrote on 11 February 1999 >For example, Ramesh said: "it was ceasing to be about IN and becoming >*far* more WoD. A question about why >angels don't get Paradox…isn't really an IN discussion and as such >shouldn't be here." > >Isn't it? Where else would that question be able to find an answer? >Wouldn't the Mage list (or whatever) make the same point as you? :-) I kinda see what you mean. But that example is talking about the Metaphysics of Mage and since I don't know about the Mage/WoD list I don't know what it's like but I guess there would be people asking about the nature of paradox and why other supers don't get paradox. >I don't believe the list would then be lost, all topics would burn >themselves out, and meanwhile others would be posting more 'relevant' >issues anyway. I'm on a Vampire LARP list where the moderation is very lax and the contents of many of the postings are very frivolous (I remeber a thread based on red haired people - very silly!). I only stay on because the mails that are good are worth it. >"What is the exact translation of Sephiroth I heard it's got something >to do with the Tree of Life? > >Em replied: "I have neither the patience nor the time to go into an >indepth diatribe on the Kabbalah right now. But, there's a decent >enough page at http://www.digital-brilliance.com/kab/ which will provide >you with a FAQ, some exceedingly goofy Thelema handwavings, and a good >list of links." > >Wasn't Thelema the bespectacled friend of Scooby-doo? The hand waving I >ever saw her do was when she routinely lost her glasses and couldn't >find them (perhaps it was all some secret ritual! LOL! Thanks for the description bit Ramesh aka Demon of fiddling ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:59:47 PST From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> Trying to picture this and failing So I'm sitting there reading my *Angelic Player's Guide* and I read that angels who have an audience with Laurence have to stand at attention. Now, these audiences are taking place in Heaven, where angels wear their celestial forms. Elohites, Malakites, and Mercurians have no problem. Seraphs and Cherubim can convey the same effect a little differently. But HOW exactly can a Kyriotate stand at attention? Or an Ofanite? Janet Anderson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:03:26 -0000 From: "Ramesh Satkurunath" Subject: Re: IN> Redemption Pamphlet Damn cool. Em Ramesh aka Demon of Fiddling (Angel wannabe) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:41:15 -0800 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> Trying to picture this and failing Janet Anderson wrote: > > So I'm sitting there reading my *Angelic Player's Guide* and I read that > angels who have an audience with Laurence have to stand at attention. > Now, these audiences are taking place in Heaven, where angels wear their > celestial forms. Elohites, Malakites, and Mercurians have no problem. > Seraphs and Cherubim can convey the same effect a little differently. > But HOW exactly can a Kyriotate stand at attention? Or an Ofanite? I'd say an Ofanite would hover in one place and spin vertically, facing Laurence with its 'leading edge'. The Kyriotate...umm, just try and stay in one place, basically. - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:09:51 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Trying to picture this and failing On Thu, 11 Feb 1999, Janet Anderson wrote: > But HOW exactly can a Kyriotate stand at attention? Or an Ofanite? Attitude, more than anything else. If your bearing indicates that you are at attention, then you are at attention. Even if you are a madly spinning gyroscope of flame or a roiling cloud of Forces. Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit my web page: Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto Currently dedicated to In Nomine, Planescape, and Waste World - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 20:19:00 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Trying to picture this and failing At 2:59 PM -0800 2/11/99, Janet Anderson wrote: >But HOW exactly can a Kyriotate stand at attention? Or an Ofanite? Kyrios sort of float in a nice neat formation, instead of flowing around too much, and Ofanim whirl neatly in one little space... (For more on Kyriotates and their poses, check out Hitherby and Sephar in Maya's Fiat Justitia game. homepages.tcp.co.uk/~maya/nomine/fiat.html It's fun.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 01:37:33 EST From: Heretic103@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> La Pizzeria You know you are truely a gamer when you can see your workplace as a site for the battle between good and evil. I delivery pizzas and I got to thinking while speedily on my way to deliver a pizza that I would make a good concept for a ofanite of Janus. The natural abilities and the desire for speed of and Ofinite would make deliverying pizzas a great great way to pas coporeal time and make some extra cash, added to to fact that people do not expect pizza delivery guys to look respectable give an angel that is new to human interaction a little space to pratice. Also at my work I have noticed that the other employees tend to bicker among themselves a lot and it would be easy for anyone especially a servitor of Malphas who wants some practice in human interaction to create rifts in the relationship between all the employees. - -end transmission- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 99 00:45:45 CDT From: redneck@detnet.com (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> La Pizzeria >You know you are truely a gamer when you can see your workplace as a site for >the battle between good and evil. I delivery pizzas and I got to thinking >while speedily on my way to deliver a pizza that I would make a good concept >for a ofanite of Janus. Only if you could get transferred to another town every three days or less. Janus' Servitors don't hold down day jobs, I shouldn't think. For most other Ofanites, though, pizza delivery is just about perfect. }:-{D Redneck Kris Overstreet's email has changed... http://www.detnet.com/redneck/ - Redneck Gaijin Online http://www.wren-spot.com/wlp/ - White Lightning Productions http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/dvpbem/ - In Nomine: Dark Victory PBEM http://www.wren-spot.com/wlp/milkmaid.html - The Magnificent Milkmaid ... respond to redneck@detnet.com please ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 07:41:45 -0000 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> La Pizzeria > >Janus' Servitors don't hold down day jobs, I shouldn't think. > Travelling salesman or preacher is kind of appealing for a Seraph of the Wind though.. (Or both! Buy some double glazing, get a free bible...) jo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 03:04:52 EST From: Samovar3@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> La Pizzeria Jo Hart wrote: Hmm. To be honest, the only time I would have ever put the words "Seraph" and "Travelling salesman" together in the same sentence would be in "A Seraph would make a lousy travelling salesman." Can you imagine one telling the truth about the product it's trying to sell? It'd be on the fast-track for worst salesman of the year or balseraphdom. Not to say that it wouldn't be extraordinarily amusing to see one give a sales pitch... S. Flanigan ------------------------------ Date: 12 Feb 1999 07:29:47 -0600 From: jmcbray@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu (Jason F. McBrayer) Subject: Re: IN> La Pizzeria >>>>> "RG" == Redneck Gaijin writes: >> You know you are truely a gamer when you can see your workplace as >> a site for the battle between good and evil. I delivery pizzas and >> I got to thinking while speedily on my way to deliver a pizza that >> I would make a good concept for a ofanite of Janus. RG> Only if you could get transferred to another town every three days RG> or less. Janus' Servitors don't hold down day jobs, I shouldn't RG> think. For most other Ofanites, though, pizza delivery is just RG> about perfect. }:-{D Benjamin D. Hutchins has a nice character concept and vignette for an Ofanite of Creation in service to Judgement [!] with a role as a pizza delivery driver at . His reliever servant with a 1957 Cadillac hearse vessel ("The Judgment-Mobile") is particularly fun :) - -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu | | The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must hide Yhtill | | forever. R.W. Chambers _The King in Yellow_ | ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:36:42 -0500 (EST) From: "Diane J. Donaldson" Subject: IN> Game Resource Hello boys and girls, I have a wonderful book that I picked up for $1.50 at my local thrift store. It's called "Rosicrucian Questions and Answers with Complete History", by H. Spencer Lewis, Ph. D., F. R. C., First imperator of the Rosicrucian Order for North and South America. First edition was 1929, though the one I have is the fifth edition from 1954. There is an Addendum in the front, written in 1941, that says "The author of this work passed through transition (the Rosicrucian term for that change from mortal to immortal existence commonly referred to as death) on Wednesday, August 2, 1939, in San Jose, California, the See of the Rosicrucian Order." I love this book. The "traditional" (non-written) history of the order is traced back to ancient Egypt, 18th dynasty. These sacred mysteries would of course not be written down, because then somebody might steal the secrets. So you have to sort of read between the hieroglyphic lines. (Unfortunately, the one hieroglyph that is used as an example, viz the pool, is transliterated incorrectly as "m" or "ma" instead of "sh", but hey, who am I to argue with sacred ancient mysteries?) Thutmose III was the Pharoah who "organized the present physical form followed by the present secret Brotherhood and outlined many of its rules and regulations." After an extended history of the order (which is well worth reading, even the actual written historical bits), comes a long series of questions and answers. These include #13 "Do the Rosicrucians teach astrology or any other method of fortunetelling?" (answer: No), #18 "Do the Rosicrucians still practice the art of alchemy or transmutation of base metals into gold?" (answer: Yes, and it works, but it costs much more than gold actually does, so we don't count on it for income), and #35 "Why is the Rosicrucian Order believed to be a secret organization?" (answer: "Because the average member makes it so...If the Rosicrucian Order could have its way or have its dreams materialized, it would give its teachings and all it has to offer freely and without limitation to every man, woman, and child in the world.") Several in particular, such as #28 "Does the organization sell any remedies or devices which it claims will help to prolong life or prevent disease?" and #26 "Do the real Rosicrucians teach that it is possible for a man to live eternally in the same body?" have answers that begin with "The true Rosicrucians..." which then go on to deny the claims. Which only proves that some renegade sects probably did do all those things. This is a great book for injecting High Weirdness into your In Nomine campaign. The Rosicrucians have the formula for eternal life! And they can transmute base metals into gold! And they have secret mystical writings from ancient Egypt! Woo-hoo! If you run across this book at your local library or thrift store, check it out. djd ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:25:25 -0600 (CST) From: Elizabeth Bartley Subject: Re: IN> La Pizzeria On Fri, 12 Feb 1999 Samovar3@aol.com wrote: > Jo Hart wrote: > Wind though..> > Hmm. To be honest, the only time I would have ever put the words "Seraph" and > "Travelling salesman" together in the same sentence would be in "A Seraph > would make a lousy travelling salesman." Seraphim of the Wind are experts in bending the truth. They're just not allowed to actually *break* it. Elizabeth Bartley e-bartley@pobox.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:56:22 EST From: CraziNicci@aol.com Subject: IN> 257 WAYS? 257 WAYS TO AVOID WASTING MONEY IN… ...MAIL ORDER-AND GROW RICHER! TRICKS-of-the-TRADE most Insiders keep to Themselves! INSIDERS SECRETS REVEALED! The author reveals everything he discovered about making exciting mail order profits-starting with little or no money! YOU'LL LEARN HOW TO SURVIVE & PROSPER! Using these tested 257 ways, will literally force you to come out a winner! You'll learn all the tricks of the trade. YOU WILL DISCOVER REAL PROFITS! 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Learn how to achieve your goals, discover why self-motivation is the key to your success, how-to-avoid frustration & discouragement, and much more! 30 DAY MONEY-BACK GUARANTEE! Prove what I say for yourself-risk free! don't delay! act now! IT'S EASY TO ORDER! Simply Print Out This Form and Fill Out & Mail Today. YES! I want To order "257 ways to avoid wasting money in Mail Order" Enclosed is my: Check _____ Cash ____ Money Order ____ for $19.95 (Outside U.S. Please add $5.00 shipping & handling) (International Money Order only) Name: _________________________________ Address: _______________________________ City _____________ State_______ Zip_________ E-Mail:_____________________________________ Phone # _________________ MAIL TO: GLOBAL DISTRIBUTION P.O. BOX 7247 GARDEN CITY, NY 11530 U.S.A. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:29:13 -0500 From: "Thomas J. Ladegard" Subject: IN> Testing question... So, did I get dropped from this list, or is it really this dead? - - Tom Ladegard ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:00:40 -0600 From: Uncle Wolf Subject: IN> Wind attunement Here's one for you, originally was going to call it "Easy Rider", but then I thought up the perfect saying for it, so instead, you get: Zen Rider, a Servitor Attunement for Janus "Become one with the machine..." This attunement allows a Windie to stick to a moving vehicle without being thrown. It can NOT be used while working the edge to regain Essence -- you got to just tough it out then. But when you are on assignment, and you absolutely _not_ let this vehicle get away, this is *the* one you want to have on tap. On a roll against Strength+Corp. Forces, you can stick to the vehicle for [CD] minutes. Then you must make another roll. You can stay with a vehicle for as long as you can keep making the rolls. This attunement can not be activated while the vehicle is moving slower than a non-Ofanim, sprinting [about 10-15 mph]. It also becomes inactive if the vehicle remains stopped for longer than 2 minutes, even if the motor is still running. How a Windie stays stuck to the vehicle until it gets up to speed is up to the Windie. This attunement does have an Essence cost of 1, but [typical of Janus], things get a bit weird at this point. [Janus gotta go and change things, don't you know] For purposes of Essence costs & disturbance, ONLY, this attunement can be sotto voced, and should be treated as if it were a Celestial Song at level of Celestial Forces. In all other ways, it is treated as, and considered to be, a Servitor Attunement. GMs are encouraged to get gross and disgusting with the results of getting thrown from a high-speed moving vehicle, especially if the "stickiness" roll comes up Lucy. *g* When you stand in the path of the wind, you sometimes get flattened by tornadoes. Valefor does not have this attunement, but he does have "Superfly", a _similar_ attunement that only works on stationary objects, like buildings. Does wonders for his Servitor's second-story work. See above about failing a "stickiness" roll, especially on a Divine Intervention. take care, tom timberlake, Cadre Cherub of Heaven. - -- "it's a dog eat dog world and I'm wearing milkbone underwear" Cheers ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1118 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.