From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Feb 18 20:49:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA13264 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:49:52 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id UAA30963 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:46:47 -0600 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:46:47 -0600 Message-Id: <199902190246.UAA30963@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1122 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, February 18 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1122 In this digest: Re: IN> [ADMIN] Spam and Posting Privilages IN> more infernal saintery Re: IN> Sorcery Question IN> forces Re: IN> forces Re: IN> forces Re: IN> forces Re: IN> forces Re: IN> forces Re: IN> forces Re: IN> forces Re: IN> forces Re: IN> forces Re: IN> forces IN> Gamer's Directory IN> Get your Business on the Internet NOW!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:35:33 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> [ADMIN] Spam and Posting Privilages At 1:43 PM +0100 2/17/99, Rene Kragh Pedersen wrote: >Simon Hailes wrote: I think it was a cracked account. I forwarded it to his postmaster. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:42:54 PST From: "Martin Arnold" Subject: IN> more infernal saintery David: "Probably not. Demon Princes might have the power, but they don't have the knowledge -- binding human souls to a corporeal body is a secret the Archangels have kept to themselves. (At least that's how I'm writing it in the CPG.) Even if Demon Princes could make infernal Saints, they wouldn't, because a human soul given a corporeal body on Earth will run away at the first opportunity." John: "If they were smart, anyways!" Me: I would guess that the obvious reason is that DP's are afraid that the Infernal Saint would run off, lose itself on earth and then be corrupted by the Host. Scratch one soul from Hell. Hold on, what about Saints, regular Saints; don't tell me that Hell doesn't try and corrupt those, or defeat them in similar ways. Surely the same standards would apply to Hell; Heaven would no more with to lose a Saint than Hell would. Would an IS run away? That would assume that his experience of Hell is enough to male him wish to do so - but where's he going to go. I've said this before so I won't repeat myself! But can we assume that a dammed soul knows of heaven's existence and that therefore the soul would automatically try and escape to Heaven? I can't imagine much of the Host offering n IS like Hitler much. No Malakite would be comfortable with this presence surely! For one thing God's Law (i.e. it was sentenced to eternal damnation) has already universally declared the soul 'evil' -. Ultimately the question is what happens when the IS's corporeal body dies - I assume that it won't be given an immortal body on its return 'topside'. Once the body dies back down it goes and so it better play by the rules (at least if it wants more earth action!). Nobody escapes the Infernal Inquisition. Come to think of it, as it has already been damned (by God's Law, IMHO, as above) wouldn't the Host themselves be interested in seeing that he soul is returned to where it belongs. They may hate the demons and Hell, as a blot on the landscape so to speak, but that's where God says sinners go. Therefore angels don't want damned souls in heaven any more than demons because it corrupts the purity of paradise. I still can't accept that DP's wouldn't have the knowledge, not when AA's fall. Surely they would bring the knowledge with them. Martin ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:16:27 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Sorcery Question I believe that most demonlings and ethereal spirits do not >> *possess* vessels, therefore the likelihood of ever successfully >> summoning a demonling goes down significantly, as does summoning an >> ethereal spirit (like a Dream Fragment, how many of *those* have >> vessels?). > > The assumption is that RANDOM summonings only hit >beings with vessels. Summons specifically targeted at a named >being usually just fails if that being has no vessel. I've >proposed canon that would let you summon such a being and >create a flawed pseudo-vessel for them. Oo! Cool. Can't wait to see that. :) - -Perry, ONE Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "...Love is kind...love never fails...." 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:20:29 PST From: "Shawn Rutledge" Subject: IN> forces Quick question..... Let's say that somehow an angel got created by some interesting sequence of events which gave it 64 forces. Now, how powerful would such an angel be? I know PC's start out with 9 forces, and Orc listed in the back of the main book is listed at "moderate power" with 16 forces. What I can't find anywhere is how many forces an Archangel would have. I'd like to get a power comparison here. Now, it's not a PC, it's a plot device...I just need to know how powerful my plot device is on a scale from Servitor to Archangel. Bukail, Angel of That Stuff Over There ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 01:15:03 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> forces We haven't been given Force ratings for Archangels deliberately; we're not supposed to know them. The normal Force maximum for a celestial is 18. Archangels and Demon Princes have made the "quantum leap" beyond that... and we're not even sure whether individual Forces even matter when measuring them anymore. So - a "standard" angel is never going to have 64 Forces - but an Archangel isn't necessarily going to have that few, or even measure them the same way. - -EDG - -- EDG, Mercurian of Jean, Angel of Information Dissemination anthoch@earlham.edu 159.28.165.120 "Jesus saves. Roll for initiative." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:14:16 +1100 From: Leath Sheales <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: Re: IN> forces At 09:20 PM 2/17/99 PST, you wrote: > Let's say that somehow an angel got created by some interesting >sequence of events which gave it 64 forces. Now, how powerful would >such an angel be? I know PC's start out with 9 forces, and Orc listed >in the back of the main book is listed at "moderate power" with 16 >forces. > What I can't find anywhere is how many forces an Archangel would >have. > I'd like to get a power comparison here. > Now, it's not a PC, it's a plot device...I just need to know how >powerful my plot device is on a scale from Servitor to Archangel. Non-Superior angels and demons have a MAXIMUM of 18 forces. They can NEVER go past this as long as they are not a superior. They can not be a superior unless Lucifer gives the word (for demons). For angels, it's a little fuzzier, it's not made clear whether new Archangels are appointed by the Seraphim Council or by God. Superiors are beyond the concept of personal Forces. They can juggle loose forces from the Symphony, they can split their own forces off to make new beings and (presumably) they can graft loose forces onto themselves from their Cathedral/Principality. So your plot device angel is an impossibility in canon. For non-canon, you can do what you like. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:00:09 -0800 From: "B.H." Subject: Re: IN> forces Sixty-four forces? That's ... not allowed under normal rules, I think... I believe that "moderate power" applied to the fact that, as a word-bound, he's up and coming. I think that in order to have more than 18 forces, you have to be a superior.... Shawn Rutledge wrote: > > Quick question..... > Let's say that somehow an angel got created by some interesting > sequence of events which gave it 64 forces. Now, how powerful would > such an angel be? I know PC's start out with 9 forces, and Orc listed > in the back of the main book is listed at "moderate power" with 16 > forces. > What I can't find anywhere is how many forces an Archangel would > have. > I'd like to get a power comparison here. > Now, it's not a PC, it's a plot device...I just need to know how > powerful my plot device is on a scale from Servitor to Archangel. > > Bukail, Angel of That Stuff > Over There > - -- Berian, Renegade Demon of Imagination "Darnit! Those pesky Gamesters!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:31:06 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> forces On a sheerly fanciful note, how do people picture forces? I tend to imagine them as sparkling balls of light. Anyone else? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:52:03 +1030 From: Simon Hailes Subject: Re: IN> forces Excuse me, and sorry for interrupting, but are you the reason why I got a strange and unsettling message from my internet account people, I am baffled and quite annoyed as well. Simon 'What the Hell is going on? Hailes ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:08:56 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> forces At 9:20 PM -0800 2/17/99, Shawn Rutledge wrote: >Quick question..... > Let's say that somehow an angel got created by some interesting >sequence of events which gave it 64 forces. By canon, it can't -- it maxes out at 18, no more than 6 in each realm. > What I can't find anywhere is how many forces an Archangel would >have. And you never will, in canon. They're a state-change, and draw upon vast amounts of power. (One proposed notion is that they have tens or hundreds of "Word Forces," which hasn't crept into canon yet. Those Word Forces would be in constant -- usually minor -- flux, as the power of the Word waxes and wanes. Of course, these may not even be quite what lesser beings *think* of as Forces, anymore.) > Now, it's not a PC, it's a plot device...I just need to know how >powerful my plot device is on a scale from Servitor to Archangel. By canon? Impossible. Otherwise? If you use Word-Forces, then it would be equivalent to a very powerful Wordbound (of 18 personal Forces and the rest Word-Forces) who is probably on the border of the state-change between regular angel and very young Archangel. If it doesn't have a Word, then I'd make it have a *real* short lifespan, as this unnatural configuration of Forces totters around like a grapefruit trying to balance on a marble. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:14:58 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> forces On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > On a sheerly fanciful note, how do people picture forces? > I tend to imagine them as sparkling balls of light. > Anyone else? I picture raw Forces as streams of light, although that's pretty abstract since I don't normally allow raw Forces to be seen. Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit my web page: Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto Currently dedicated to In Nomine, Planescape, and Waste World - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:37:09 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> forces At 10:14 AM -0400 2/18/99, gantr@NKU.EDU wrote: >On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > >> On a sheerly fanciful note, how do people picture forces? >> I tend to imagine them as sparkling balls of light. >> Anyone else? > >I picture raw Forces as streams of light, although that's pretty abstract >since I don't normally allow raw Forces to be seen. I tend to think of them as diffuse, sort of fibrous things, like a packet of embroidery thread. (So they can be balled up, or drawn out, or be in a tangle clenched in a Superior's fist as you get Force-stripped.) Invisible, yet a shimmery heat-ripple in the air when being manipulated by a Superior. (No canon here, folks, move along, move along.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:38:05 EST From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> forces In a message dated 2/18/99 6:39:03 AM, earlw@mc.com writes: >On a sheerly fanciful note, how do people picture forces? >I tend to imagine them as sparkling balls of light. >Anyone else? > >Earl My visualization of Angelic forces is similar. I imagine them as coolly glowing spheres of green (corporeal), blue (ethereal), and gold (celestial), which leave the Archangel's hands and smooth over the form of the waiting angel. Demonic forces are more like spiky leaden chunks in black (corporeal), mustard (ethereal), and scarlet (celestial), which are thrown at the demon and do a 'claymation' effect. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 99 10:40 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> forces >On a sheerly fanciful note, how do people picture forces? When I visualize them at all, I tend to think of them as vaguely thread-like, though not solid. If they're visible at all, they'ed be softly glowing, diffuse strands of light. Perhaps that's because I tend to think of them as a sort of celestial DNA. Or maybe the image is just influenced by Ru Emerson's "Night Threads" series.... (Which has little or nothing to do with angels or IN, BTW.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:35:16 -0600 From: Don Durham Subject: IN> Gamer's Directory OK, it isn't pretty, but it's here. If you're looking for games or players, try: http://www.io.com/~arthurd/gurps_files/gamer/ If you've got Feedback, please email me offline. 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