From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Feb 28 14:02:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA31165 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:02:24 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id OAA04732 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:01:42 -0600 Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:01:42 -0600 Message-Id: <199902282001.OAA04732@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1130 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, February 28 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1130 In this digest: Re: IN> mercurians and balseraphim Re: IN> mercurians and balseraphim IN> Re: Word of Redemption Re: IN> Tethers and Windies (and Mercurians!) Re: IN> Word of Redemption Re: IN> Character Sheets (Update) / Query. . . Re: IN> Re: Word of Redemption Re: IN> mercurians and balseraphim IN> Mercurian dissonance conditions Re: IN> Word of Redemption Re: IN> Mercurian dissonance conditions Re: IN> Word of Redemption Re: IN> Word of Redemption Re: IN> Word of Redemption IN> Violence Re: IN> Re: Word of Redemption Re: IN> mercurians and balseraphim IN> Symbols Re: IN> Word of Redemption Re: IN> Tethers and Windies (and Mercurians!) Re: IN> Word of Redemption Re: IN> Word of Redemption ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 13:55:33 -0500 From: Ben Aldred Subject: Re: IN> mercurians and balseraphim >Why? The Mercurian dissonance condition, as I keep saying, is NOT for >harming humans. It's for taking violent action, for BEING violent, >which is directly against their nature. The only thing a Mercurian can >non-dissonantly be violent against is a demon. However, lacing a burger >with cyanide, I'd say, is not violent in the least - unless you >practice combat poisoning techniques - whereas going to the gym and >taking out your aggression on a punching bag _is_, because you're acting >violently regardless of what it's focused on. > I believe your definition of violence is about as narrow as Bill Clintons definition of sexual relations. Ben Cherub of Destiny, angel of depression recovery ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 14:32:35 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> mercurians and balseraphim At 1:25 AM -0500 2/27/99, EDG wrote: >Ramesh Satkurunath wrote: > >> Erm I think that the letter of the rules would agree but I think that the >> spirit is slightly different. > >Why? The Mercurian dissonance condition, as I keep saying, is NOT for >harming humans. It's for taking violent action, for BEING violent, >which is directly against their nature. The only thing a Mercurian can >non-dissonantly be violent against is a demon. However, lacing a burger >with cyanide, I'd say, is not violent in the least - unless you >practice combat poisoning techniques - whereas going to the gym and >taking out your aggression on a punching bag _is_, because you're acting >violently regardless of what it's focused on. > I don't see an expression of energy -- which is to say, high *activity* -- as the definition of violence. The active commission of harm against others is violent. If an icily cold, calm and connected Mercurian walks up to an unconscious human he knows needs killing and very calmly slits his throat, he's going to get nailed with Dissonance. He has responded with violence. If a calm Mercurian pushes a button and releases a gas that kills people, he has acted *violently.* Punching out a Bag, even to exorcise anger and rage in his soul, isn't violent because there is no harm being caused. Not even to the bag -- that's what it's there for. Action != violence. Intentional harm does. - -- Eric Alfred Burns |"It was then I felt my heart break like a sabre@annotations.com | fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com | Reality -- and it's been broken ever since." http://www.roundrobin.org | --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 12:32:38 PST From: "Krowe _" Subject: IN> Re: Word of Redemption >>My character in our local campaign is a Malakim Master of Destiny >>and the Angel of Redemption. > >Cool! What other choir Resonance does he have? Before answering that I should explain that our local game is really high-end on the power scale. We rotate GM's and have gone through the entire Revelations Cycle as well as numerous little side bits in between. Our "weakest" angel is 17 Force, un-WordBound. We are currently contemplating playing through the process of our characters becoming Superiors. We've made up a lot of stuff and expanded on the abilites of above 18 Force celestials and how one becomes a Superior. Krowe currently has the Resonances of Malakim (obviously), Cherubim, and Elohim. I wanted to give him the Mercurian Resonance instead of Elohite, but that would get in the way of hurting things. ;) Krowe Malakim Master of Destiny, Angel of Redemption Lord Master Librarian of the Night Angels Space Marines Lord of XAOZ "What good fortune for those in power, that people do not think." -- Adolf Hitler, 1889-1945 "Love is a dirty trick played upon us to achieve the continuation of the species." -- novelist W.Somerset Maugham, 1874-1965 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 16:50:47 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Tethers and Windies (and Mercurians!) Ramesh Satkurunath wrote: > One thing to remember if a Windie spends more than 3 days in 1 location > they only earn 1 point of dissonance, therefore a windie with 2 points of > dissonance could spend 3 weeks (1 for each point they went in with and 1 > for the point they got from hangin' about) in a tether and have no > dissonance at the end. Not how I read it... IMO the counter resets after three days, so a Windie in a Tether for three weeks would take 7 dissonance and only lose 3; starting with 2 notes already, therefore, would make it nearly impossible NOT to be Outcast/to Fall. > Or at least that's what I want you believe :-) Ha! High Will takes all! ;) > Ramesh aka Balseraph of Fiddling A nota bene: I'm afraid I'm sort of playing Devil's Advocate on the Mercurians bit. Mercurians are, after all, the Friends of Man, and so therefore ought to take dissonance for harming a human - physically, mentally, AND emotionally. (I'm arguing opposite extremes? When? ;) However, I'd still say that using a punching bag to take out one's aggressions is dissonant for a Mercurian; there are so many options that use less violent methods, such as a game of Trivial Pursuit or spending an hour glued to the Playstation. :) However, my argument - that the rules specifically state that violent actions are what causes dissonance - is still valid in my eyes, and it's one of the things I'd like to lobby to have changed if and when IN2 comes out ("Causing harm generates dissonance in Mercurians.."). - -EDG who is suddenly fearing Choirbook: Mercurian... *shudder* - -- EDG, Mercurian of Jean, Angel of Information Dissemination anthoch@earlham.edu 159.28.165.120 "Come on, I'm just a fish! I don't know these things." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 16:57:18 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Word of Redemption Ramesh Satkurunath wrote: > Yes part of the hard part of Redemption swallowing your pride, and trying > to find help. If the Angel of Redemption is going to splat you for being > impure in your desire his/her word isn't going to be advanced much by it. > BTW I'm not saying Malkites are combat monsters, I'm saying the Angel of > Redemption couldn't scare away potential candidates. But Malakim _are_ combat monsters! *grins and ducks* Seriously... I think that's part of the point. If you feel confident enough in your desire to redeem that you're willing to face someone you know will rip you to shreds if he thinks you're still too selfish, then you're ready to redeem. To put it another way: If you're really ready to redeem, then you ought not have any problems going near that Malakite; he'll have no reason to rip you apart, and any demons who try to come after you once he's decided you're good enough are going to be _seriously_ thwarted. *snikt!* > Ramseh aka Balseraph of Fiddling (Would redeem but I'm too scared to go > near that malakite :-) ) - -EDG (did I tell you he drinks cocoa and wears bunny slippers in his off-hours? ;) - -- EDG, Mercurian of Jean, Angel of Information Dissemination anthoch@earlham.edu 159.28.165.120 "I'd like to be Science Officer." "May I remind you, Number One, that you are a cat?" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 17:31:39 -0600 From: Uncle Wolf Subject: Re: IN> Character Sheets (Update) / Query. . . Shadowstar wrote: > > Yep, > > They're up. . . > > http://www.best.com/~lyceum/shdwstar/in-nomine/in_csheets.html > (Spelled correctly this time. *evil grin*) > > . . .And they're in .pdf format, so snag Adobe Acrobat if you want to > even -think- about downloading them) [snip] And the nicest thing about them: 73k -- can you say "fast download and display"? Sure you can, I just did. 0:-} The room for all the information is there, the burning feather background is there, the Force rings-display. I would like to publicly congratulate you, especially after having to sit through other downloads that took so long I could read whole chapters of "The Lord of the Rings" while waiting. Quick, clean and concise -- just what I want in a download!! > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > Hey, speaking of Demon Princesses. . . Like do you know if any of the > Superior's 'Seals' (mentioned throughout the 'Liber Castellorum') will > become available in future? (Like the Choir/Band icons in the IPG/APG) > > Okay, I'm a symbol freak. . . [snip] This is an official "me too", on the request for Superior's Seals graphics. to TPTB: Please, with lots of sugar on top???!!! tom timberlake, Cadre Cherub of Heaven - -- "it's a dog eat dog world and I'm wearing milkbone underwear" Cheers ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 00:30:55 -0000 From: "Ramesh Satkurunath" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Word of Redemption - -----Original Message----- From: Krowe _ To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: 27 February 1999 20:39 Subject: IN> Re: Word of Redemption >>>My character in our local campaign is a Malakim Master of Destiny >>>and the Angel of Redemption. >> >>Cool! What other choir Resonance does he have? > >Before answering that I should explain that our local game is really >high-end on the power scale. We rotate GM's and have gone through the >entire Revelations Cycle as well as numerous little side bits in >between. Our "weakest" angel is 17 Force, un-WordBound. We are currently >contemplating playing through the process of our characters becoming >Superiors. We've made up a lot of stuff and expanded on the abilites of >above 18 Force celestials and how one becomes a Superior. > >Krowe currently has the Resonances of Malakim (obviously), Cherubim, and >Elohim. I wanted to give him the Mercurian Resonance instead of Elohite, >but that would get in the way of hurting things. ;) Interesting. Is the Character's personality flavoured most by the Malakite aspect. Ramesh aka Demon of Fiddling, Balseraph of ???? "First you must learn Fiddling, then you must forget Fiddling. Must you remember to breath for breathing to occur? No. It is the same with Fiddling" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 00:31:06 -0000 From: "Ramesh Satkurunath" Subject: Re: IN> mercurians and balseraphim From: Whistling in the Dark >I don't see an expression of energy -- which is to say, high *activity* -- >as the definition of violence. The active commission of harm against >others is violent. If an icily cold, calm and connected Mercurian walks up >to an unconscious human he knows needs killing and very calmly slits his >throat, he's going to get nailed with Dissonance. He has responded with >violence. If a calm Mercurian pushes a button and releases a gas that >kills people, he has acted *violently.* > >Punching out a Bag, even to exorcise anger and rage in his soul, isn't >violent because there is no harm being caused. Not even to the bag -- >that's what it's there for. Action != violence. Intentional harm does. I agree 100% with you and so by the same reasoning I think regardless of how angry a mercurian is when they play Tekken they are not commiting an act of violence, no one is hurt - ergo it is not violence. Ramesh aka Demon of Fiddling, Balseraph of ???? "First you must learn Fiddling, then you must forget Fiddling. Must you remember to breath for breathing to occur? No. It is the same with Fiddling" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 19:58:28 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Mercurian dissonance conditions >>>Why? The Mercurian dissonance condition, as I keep saying, is NOT for harming humans. It's for taking violent action, for BEING violent, which is directly against their nature.<<< True, but it depends on how you define violence. A Mercurian can certainly engineer harm against humans (the most simple example being to tell a Malakite "Smite him!"). I wouldn't say that only actions that are immediately physically violent qualify as violence, though. Planting a bomb, poisoning someone, those are things that can be done in a violent fit of rage, with the intent of causing direct, violent harm...I'd say any _direct_ action a Mercurian takes to bring about physical harm is at least skirting on violence. A rules-lawyer Mercurian could try all kinds of things that aren't "technically" violent (cut someone's brake lines, string piano wire across their doorway, pour gasoline over someone and light a match), but a Mercurian who's looking for ways to hurt people is acting against his nature, which means he's courting dissonance. This is the same issue that came up awhile ago when the discussion was "How much can a Seraph fudge the truth without suffering dissonance?", and the answer was that a Seraph who's looking for ways to obfuscate by telling "technical truths" that are deliberately misleading is acting against his Choir nature, and thus cruising for dissonance, even if he manages to obey the letter of his dissonance conditions. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 19:56:28 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Word of Redemption At 4:57 PM -0500 2/27/99, EDG wrote: >Ramesh Satkurunath wrote: > >> Yes part of the hard part of Redemption swallowing your pride, and trying >> to find help. If the Angel of Redemption is going to splat you for being >> impure in your desire his/her word isn't going to be advanced much by it. >> BTW I'm not saying Malkites are combat monsters, I'm saying the Angel of >> Redemption couldn't scare away potential candidates. > >But Malakim _are_ combat monsters! *grins and ducks* > >Seriously... I think that's part of the point. If you feel confident >enough in your desire to redeem that you're willing to face someone you >know will rip you to shreds if he thinks you're still too selfish, then >you're ready to redeem. > >To put it another way: If you're really ready to redeem, then you ought >not have any problems going near that Malakite; he'll have no reason to >rip you apart, and any demons who try to come after you once he's >decided you're good enough are going to be _seriously_ thwarted. >*snikt!* > The only argument I have to that (assuming that you don't give the Word to an Eholite like *I* want ) is that any demon who's so confident he's ready to Redeem that he has *no* problems going near the Malakite of Redemption is almost certainly too self-centered (read, Selfish) *to* Redeem. IMHO, of course. - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | non in-nomine mail to sabre@annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 20:22:01 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Mercurian dissonance conditions At 7:58 PM -0500 2/27/99, David Edelstein wrote: > but a Mercurian who's looking for ways to hurt people is acting >against his nature, which means he's courting dissonance. This is the same >issue that came up awhile ago when the discussion was "How much can a >Seraph fudge the truth without suffering dissonance?", and the answer was >that a Seraph who's looking for ways to obfuscate by telling "technical >truths" that are deliberately misleading is acting against his Choir >nature, and thus cruising for dissonance, even if he manages to obey the >letter of his dissonance conditions. > >-David David, as always you raise a *good* point. Which leads me to a question.... The more that a given Angel or Demon rules-lawyers his way to get around his dissonance conditions, the more he ends up acting contrary to his nature. Dissonance is the reflection of the Symphony on an Angel or Demon acting contrary to his part *in* the Symphony. At what point does stretching definitions begin to inflict Dissonance on a given Angel or Demon all by itself? And is it possible for a GM to 'track' non-dissonant contrary actions... and possibly have the Angel Fall unexpectedly? (I don't know how a Demon could spontaneously Redeem, but maybe suddenly get inflicted with Angelically oriented Discords?) - -- Eric Alfred Burns |"It was then I felt my heart break like a sabre@annotations.com | fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com | Reality -- and it's been broken ever since." http://www.roundrobin.org | --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 00:37:12 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Word of Redemption >>I really favor the Elohim for this -- Redemption must come not only from >>the resonance of the emotions warring inside the upward looking demon, but >>from the objective balancing of that demon's makeup. I know I said the above before -- but I just noticed the existance of Johab, the Angel of Salvation, who is also an Elohite. Now, Redemption isn't Salvation (after all, Salvation would include someone who got hold of a life preserver, and Redemption includes people who bring bottles back to the Center in Maine and gets a nickel each) but it seems to support the mindset.... - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | non in-nomine mail to sabre@annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 00:57:32 -0800 From: "Bloodroot" Subject: Re: IN> Word of Redemption - -----Original Message----- From: Whistling in the Dark To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Saturday, February 27, 1999 5:03 PM Subject: Re: IN> Word of Redemption >The only argument I have to that (assuming that you don't give the Word to >an Eholite like *I* want ) is that any demon who's so confident he's >ready to Redeem that he has *no* problems going near the Malakite of >Redemption is almost certainly too self-centered (read, Selfish) *to* >Redeem. > I would disagree with this. A demon who is willing to sacrifice everything, including their very existance, for the chance to Redeem is probably ready. They aren't so cocky they think they're perfect...they're so sick of demonic existance that they're willing to submit themselves to God's will again. Every demonling in Hell probably 'knows' what Judgement, the Sword and Malakim in general want to do to them. You have to be willing to take responsibility to become an angel... Just some random thoughts. Sean ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 04:13:55 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Word of Redemption At 3:57 AM -0500 2/28/99, Bloodroot wrote: >-----Original Message----- >From: Whistling in the Dark >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Date: Saturday, February 27, 1999 5:03 PM >Subject: Re: IN> Word of Redemption > > >>The only argument I have to that (assuming that you don't give the Word to >>an Eholite like *I* want ) is that any demon who's so confident he's >>ready to Redeem that he has *no* problems going near the Malakite of >>Redemption is almost certainly too self-centered (read, Selfish) *to* >>Redeem. >> > > > I would disagree with this. A demon who is willing to sacrifice >everything, including their very existance, for the chance to Redeem is >probably ready. > > They aren't so cocky they think they're perfect...they're so sick of >demonic existance that they're willing to submit themselves to God's will >again. Every demonling in Hell probably 'knows' what Judgement, the Sword >and Malakim in general want to do to them. You have to be willing to take >responsibility to become an angel... > >Just some random thoughts. > >Sean And agreed, but at the very least, that Demon should be frightened. This is a *nasty* Angel, who if he doesn't believe the Demon is Redeemable will tear the forces from the Demon's quivering form. If a Demon walks in, and *knows* he's going to pass, his heart is pure, he is totally on the path and this is merely a formality... well, he's going to get a harsh wakeup call. - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | non in-nomine mail to sabre@annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:27:26 EST From: Gruzzle@aol.com Subject: IN> Violence >>>>The dissonance rules say nothing about bringing harm to anything. What they say is, and I quote, "Violence generates dissonance in Mercurians." Touching a button is not generally a violent action.<<<<< vi*o*lence (noun) First appeared 14th Century 1 a : exertion of physical force so as to injure or abuse (as in effecting illegal entry into a house) b : an instance of violent (see below definition) treatment or procedure 2 : injury by or as if by distortion, infringement, or profanation : OUTRAGE 3 a : intense, turbulent, or furious and often destructive action or force b : vehement feeling or expression : FERVOR; also : an instance of such action or feeling c : a clashing or jarring quality : DISCORDANCE 4 : undue alteration (as of wording or sense in editing a text) vi*o*lent (adjective) [Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin violentus; akin to Latin vis strength -- more at VIM] First appeared 14th Century 1 : marked by extreme force or sudden intense activity 2 a : notably furious or vehement b : EXTREME, INTENSE <~ pain> <~ colors> 3 : caused by force : not natural So yes, pushing a button that will kill people *is* indeed a very violent action even though normally a simple button push would not be. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:35:16 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Word of Redemption At 12:32 PM -0800 2/27/99, Krowe _ wrote: >Krowe currently has the Resonances of Malakim (obviously), Cherubim, and >Elohim. I wanted to give him the Mercurian Resonance instead of Elohite, >but that would get in the way of hurting things. ;) You are following the dissonance conditions for all of these Choirs, right? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:36:49 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> mercurians and balseraphim At 1:25 AM -0500 2/27/99, EDG wrote: >Ramesh Satkurunath wrote: > >> Erm I think that the letter of the rules would agree but I think that the >> spirit is slightly different. > >Why? The Mercurian dissonance condition, as I keep saying, is NOT for >harming humans. Considering that the GURPS IN Dissonance Condition is a modified "Total Pacifism: Only against humans, only personally"... They're the "Friends of Man." They can't harm humans. (Otherwise, they're just Elohite clones...) Not by slugging, not by tear gas, not by pushing buttons, not by calmly poisoning humans. If they strike out in anger, I *might* give them dissonance for it (depending on the situation), but if they cause damage to humans, they *definitely* get it if they chose to perform the harmful action. Chopping wood for a fire isn't a problem for them. Cutting down a tree is only a problem for Mercurians of Novalis. Lashing out and putting holes in the wall or window, on the other hand, *would* start skirting the edge of their dissonance conditions. Slugging a human definitely does it. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:36:51 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Symbols At 1:15 PM -0600 2/26/99, Shadowstar wrote: >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > Hey, speaking of Demon Princesses. . . Like do you know if any of the >Superior's 'Seals' (mentioned throughout the 'Liber Castellorum') will >become available in future? (Like the Choir/Band icons in the IPG/APG) Someday, hopefully. But it'll depend on various and sundry things. I have a few ideas about where to lobby for them to go. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:42:09 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Word of Redemption At 4:13 AM -0500 2/28/99, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >And agreed, but at the very least, that Demon should be frightened. This >is a *nasty* Angel, who if he doesn't believe the Demon is Redeemable will >tear the forces from the Demon's quivering form. If a Demon walks in, and >*knows* he's going to pass, his heart is pure, he is totally on the path >and this is merely a formality... well, he's going to get a harsh wakeup >call. Unless he's right. (Though it's never a *formality*. You can be totally certain that you no longer want to be a demon -- but that you'll survive? That's different.) But I can see a Habbalite who got a 111 on Emptiness being sure that it could confront even a Malakite and be allowed to *try*. (I'd say that the knowing of one's self to the extent that one knows one *WANTS* redemption, more than anything, is a perfectly good thing. If you want it enough to give up everything -- your resonance, your attunements, your life, your *PERSONALITY* -- and trust that what you wind up being is something that you'll still have kinship and continuity with...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 17:59:25 -0000 From: "Ramesh Satkurunath" Subject: Re: IN> Tethers and Windies (and Mercurians!) EDG wrote: >Ramesh Satkurunath wrote: > >> One thing to remember if a Windie spends more than 3 days in 1 location >> they only earn 1 point of dissonance, therefore a windie with 2 points of >> dissonance could spend 3 weeks (1 for each point they went in with and 1 >> for the point they got from hangin' about) in a tether and have no >> dissonance at the end. > >Not how I read it... IMO the counter resets after three days, so a >Windie in a Tether for three weeks would take 7 dissonance and only lose >3; starting with 2 notes already, therefore, would make it nearly >impossible NOT to be Outcast/to Fall. Someone on the list stated it was like that a while back, I can't remember who, I took them on face value. I'll try to find out who it was and post the quote later... >> Or at least that's what I want you believe :-) > >Ha! High Will takes all! ;) . Why you little.... >> Ramesh aka Balseraph of Fiddling >A nota bene: I'm afraid I'm sort of playing Devil's Advocate on the >Mercurians bit. Mercurians are, after all, the Friends of Man, and so >therefore ought to take dissonance for harming a human - physically, >mentally, AND emotionally. (I'm arguing opposite extremes? When? ;) >However, I'd still say that using a punching bag to take out one's >aggressions is dissonant for a Mercurian; there are so many options that >use less violent methods, such as a game of Trivial Pursuit or spending >an hour glued to the Playstation. :) > >However, my argument - that the rules specifically state that violent >actions are what causes dissonance - is still valid in my eyes, and it's >one of the things I'd like to lobby to have changed if and when IN2 >comes out ("Causing harm generates dissonance in Mercurians.."). The way I see it is that the Mercurian Resonance is for Social interactions, and they can use their social skills to harm but when they stop using social interactions to deal with things, when they start hitting people they get dissonance >-EDG > who is suddenly fearing Choirbook: Mercurian... *shudder* Choirbooks? I thought SJ Games decided against doing individual choir books. Ramesh aka Demon of Fiddling, Balseraph of ???? "First you must learn Fiddling, then you must forget Fiddling. Must you remember to breath for breathing to occur? No. It is the same with Fiddling" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 18:10:24 -0000 From: "Ramesh Satkurunath" Subject: Re: IN> Word of Redemption EDG wrote >Ramesh Satkurunath wrote: > >> Yes part of the hard part of Redemption swallowing your pride, and trying >> to find help. If the Angel of Redemption is going to splat you for being >> impure in your desire his/her word isn't going to be advanced much by it. >> BTW I'm not saying Malkites are combat monsters, I'm saying the Angel of >> Redemption couldn't scare away potential candidates. > >But Malakim _are_ combat monsters! *grins and ducks* > >Seriously... I think that's part of the point. If you feel confident >enough in your desire to redeem that you're willing to face someone you >know will rip you to shreds if he thinks you're still too selfish, then >you're ready to redeem. > >To put it another way: If you're really ready to redeem, then you ought >not have any problems going near that Malakite; he'll have no reason to >rip you apart, and any demons who try to come after you once he's >decided you're good enough are going to be _seriously_ thwarted. >*snikt!* I see Redemption as kinda like trying to give up drinking, gambling or any vice (note: I am not comparing being an alcolic to being a demon, I am comparing being a demon to being an alcoholic [If that makes sense]). The First step is admitting you have a problem, and plucking up the guts to try and do something about it, someone who goes to AA for the first time probably hasn't sworn of booze, but they do want to change. The same goes for a demon trying to Redeem they can't honesty swear they will never commit an act of evil again, it's what they are, but they want to change. If armed guards were at AA meetings ready to shoot anyone not pure in their conviction to give up drinking, they wouldn't be too successful. >> Ramesh aka Balseraph of Fiddling (Would redeem but I'm too scared to go >> near that malakite :-) ) > >-EDG > (did I tell you he drinks cocoa and wears bunny slippers in his >off-hours? ;) Bunny slippers? Now I'm scared! Ramesh aka Demon of Fiddling, Balseraph of ???? "First you must learn Fiddling, then you must forget Fiddling. Must you remember to breath for breathing to occur? No. It is the same with Fiddling" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 19:58:36 -0000 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Word of Redemption >And agreed, but at the very least, that Demon should be frightened. This >is a *nasty* Angel, who if he doesn't believe the Demon is Redeemable will >tear the forces from the Demon's quivering form. And how is this angel scarier than.. having to face an angelic superior face to face and beg on bended knees for it to forgive your evil past and give you another chance? (Yes, we know that Novalis isn't necessarily all that scary but does the would-be redeemed demon know that?) I wonder if even the fact that demons _can_ be redeemed at all is suppressed by the Hellish authorities -- I know I'd keep that information under wraps and make sure that any infernal denizen who was speculating too loudly about the possibility would quietly disappear if I were in charge down there...) jo ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1130 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.