From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue May 25 03:48:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA29592 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 03:48:28 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id DAA23072 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 25 May 1999 03:47:00 -0500 Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 03:47:00 -0500 Message-Id: <199905250847.DAA23072@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1236 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, May 25 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1236 In this digest: IN> Song of Fire Disturbance question Re: IN> Song of Fire Disturbance question Re: IN> Song of Fire Disturbance question IN> Re: IN- Song of Fire Disturbance question IN> Artifact: "Celestial Insurance Policy" Re: IN> Malakim and violent oaths Re: IN> Malakim and violent oaths Re: IN> Malakim and violent oaths Re: IN> Malakim and violent oaths Re: IN> Chopping up the Revelations Cycle books Re: IN> Role costs Re: IN> Chopping up the Revelations Cycle books Re: IN> Malakim and violent oaths IN> In Nomine LARPing Re: IN> Malakim and violent oaths Re: IN> In Nomine LARPing RE: IN> In Nomine LARPing Re: IN> In Nomine LARPing Re: IN> Chopping up the Revelations Cycle books Re: IN> In Nomine LARPing Re: IN> In Nomine LARPing (going slightly off-topic here...) Re: IN> Minimal Spirit RE: IN> Malakim and violent oaths Re: IN> Malakim and violent oaths Re: IN> Azariel the Habbalakite IN> Familiars (Re: Loose Canons) Re: IN> Song of Fire Disturbance question RE: IN> Malakim and violent oaths Grey Situations (Was Re: IN> Azariel the Habbalakite) IN> Other interesting Habbalah IN> In Nomine related, but odd... Re: IN> In Nomine related, but odd... Re: IN> Other interesting Habbalah RE: IN> Other interesting Habbalah ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 21:09:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Knop Subject: IN> Song of Fire Disturbance question A demon sets a fire in a wastebasket with the Song of Fire, and then leaves the area. There is enough paper in the wastebasket to sustain the fire after the Song has expired. The resultant blazes goes on to burn down a hospital, killing quite a number of people. How much of this will generate a Symphonic Disturbance? One could argue that the whole thing happened as a result of the Celestial action, and so all of it ought to be noisy (*very* noisy). If forced to rule as GM, I would probably only count that which was destroyed in the area and during the original duration of the Song. What would others and/or canon say? - -Rob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 00:28:50 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Song of Fire Disturbance question At 9:09 PM -0700 5/23/99, Robert Knop wrote: >A demon sets a fire in a wastebasket with the Song of Fire, and then >leaves the area. There is enough paper in the wastebasket to sustain >the fire after the Song has expired. The resultant blazes goes on to >burn down a hospital, killing quite a number of people. > >How much of this will generate a Symphonic Disturbance? One could argue >that the whole thing happened as a result of the Celestial action, and >so all of it ought to be noisy (*very* noisy). If forced to rule as GM, >I would probably only count that which was destroyed in the area and >during the original duration of the Song. What would others and/or >canon say? "A demon sets a fire in a wastebasket with a Zippo lighter, and then leaves the area. There is enough paper in the wastebasket to sustain the fire. The resultant blazes goes on to burn down a hospital, killing quite a number of people." Clearly arson, clearly symphonic disturbance. That it's started in your example with an innately disturbing method shouldn't make a different. Massive human death by demon Arson. Set off the Symphony alarm. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 23:37:01 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> Song of Fire Disturbance question I would do this on a case-by-case thing. in this case, I would have the disturbance be for everyone he killed. he did this intentionally. now if by accident an angel started a fire while fighting a demon, and a building burned down, I might let him slide on the noise. Dennis H. Groome V -- "Amo Nympham" Web Developer, AN Consulting nallix@bellsouth.net ICQ: 11340261 http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/9651 "I think I woke up screaming, 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" - -Stabbing Westward, ACF - -----Original Message----- From: Robert Knop To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Sunday, May 23, 1999 11:15 PM Subject: IN> Song of Fire Disturbance question >A demon sets a fire in a wastebasket with the Song of Fire, and then >leaves the area. There is enough paper in the wastebasket to sustain >the fire after the Song has expired. The resultant blazes goes on to >burn down a hospital, killing quite a number of people. > >How much of this will generate a Symphonic Disturbance? One could argue >that the whole thing happened as a result of the Celestial action, and >so all of it ought to be noisy (*very* noisy). If forced to rule as GM, >I would probably only count that which was destroyed in the area and >during the original duration of the Song. What would others and/or >canon say? > >-Rob > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 22:05:56 PDT From: "Micheal Knight" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Song of Fire Disturbance question >A demon sets a fire in a wastebasket with the Song of Fire, and then >leaves the area. There is enough paper in the wastebasket to sustain >the fire after the Song has expired. The resultant blazes goes on to >burn down a hospital, killing quite a number of people. > >How much of this will generate a Symphonic Disturbance? One could argue >that the whole thing happened as a result of the Celestial action, and so >all of it ought to be noisy (*very* noisy). If forced to rule as GM, I >would probably only count that which was destroyed in the area and >during >the original duration of the Song. What would others and/or canon say? Canon rules, AFAIK, say that this is one act that leads to massive symphonic disturbance. Every angel in town (and most of the demons) will probably come running. Sing Celestial Cacophony, with all your essence. It'll be about as loud, and drown out Songs, too. *chuckles* _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 01:10:46 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Artifact: "Celestial Insurance Policy" >>>Not if I'm reading it right. "The CD, plus the performers Forces in the realm of the song" is the CD plus 6, plus the 6 Essence being spent.<<< All right, that's true -- I'm just used to carefully excluding Essence expenditures when describing Song disturbances, since it's assumed that any Essence spent will add to the disturbance. So to avoid confusion (I'm kind of in editor-mode here, remember), I'd specify that the disturbance of "12+CD" includes the 6-point Essence expenditure. (Theoretically, it could have been charged with less than it's full capacity.) Your revision looks good, though as a GM, I probably wouldn't allow all those mini-maxing limitations -- I'd say stick to the "self only" one. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 11:45:26 +0100 From: hjalkar@redbrick.dcu.ie (Kevin Walsh) Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and violent oaths On Fri, May 21, 1999 at 08:40:54PM +0200, Anders Gabrielsson wrote: > humans, by the currently prevailing morals, by the way), and if it's just > enough that he knows about it, he'll go berserk as soon as he finds out > about killing animals for food. > I don't see Jordi as being terribly upset at humans killing animals for food. Animals kill animals for food, after all. What I reckon upsets him more are factory farms, and agriculture generally. (Pastoralism, I'm not sure about; ants do something similar.) - -- "It is an impressive thing to hear a helpless woman damned in every item of her life, every corner of her soul. For good reason, no one accused by the Temple has ever been found innocent." Ser Visal's Tale, by Stephen Donaldson. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 13:05:43 +0200 (CEST) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and violent oaths On Mon, 24 May 1999, Kevin Walsh wrote: > On Fri, May 21, 1999 at 08:40:54PM +0200, Anders Gabrielsson wrote: > > humans, by the currently prevailing morals, by the way), and if it's just > > enough that he knows about it, he'll go berserk as soon as he finds out > > about killing animals for food. > > > I don't see Jordi as being terribly upset at humans killing animals for > food. Animals kill animals for food, after all. What I reckon upsets him > more are factory farms, and agriculture generally. (Pastoralism, I'm not > sure about; ants do something similar.) But this Malakite had the Oath to kill humans who kill animals... Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! We don't get extra credit for how much suffering we endure. The only score worth keeping is how little suffering we inflict and how much we relieve. - Ghost ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 12:12:07 +0100 From: hjalkar@redbrick.dcu.ie (Kevin Walsh) Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and violent oaths On Mon, May 24, 1999 at 01:05:43PM +0200, Anders Gabrielsson wrote: > > I don't see Jordi as being terribly upset at humans killing animals for > > food. Animals kill animals for food, after all. What I reckon upsets him > > more are factory farms, and agriculture generally. (Pastoralism, I'm not > > sure about; ants do something similar.) > > But this Malakite had the Oath to kill humans who kill animals... > That just means I think it's a bad oath. - -- "It is an impressive thing to hear a helpless woman damned in every item of her life, every corner of her soul. For good reason, no one accused by the Temple has ever been found innocent." Ser Visal's Tale, by Stephen Donaldson. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 14:11:49 +0200 (CEST) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and violent oaths On Mon, 24 May 1999, Kevin Walsh wrote: > On Mon, May 24, 1999 at 01:05:43PM +0200, Anders Gabrielsson wrote: > > > I don't see Jordi as being terribly upset at humans killing animals for > > > food. Animals kill animals for food, after all. What I reckon upsets him > > > more are factory farms, and agriculture generally. (Pastoralism, I'm not > > > sure about; ants do something similar.) > > > > But this Malakite had the Oath to kill humans who kill animals... > > > That just means I think it's a bad oath. Then we agree. :) At least, that's what I was trying to say... Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! We don't get extra credit for how much suffering we endure. The only score worth keeping is how little suffering we inflict and how much we relieve. - Ghost ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 13:15:18 +0100 () From: "David.Evans" Subject: Re: IN> Chopping up the Revelations Cycle books Scott sic srcipsit: > I'm considering having the bindings sliced off all 5 of my Revelations > Cycle books, then reorganizing them into several more focused books > (book of Superiors, book of new rules, book of places, book of > scenarios, etc.) and having them re-bound. Has anyone on the list done > anything of this sort before? How did it work out? > -- > Scott E Kullberg <*> sekullbe@{mediaone.net|mit.edu} --><-- I heard of one guy from a friend who's on the rolemaster mailing list who unbinds all the pages from EVERY Rolemaster Book he buys, and then LAMINATES each individual page. So, a quarter inch thick book end up teking up a *binder* instead. It seemed to work for him... *shrugs* Be seeing you... David. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 09:49:28 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Role costs EDG wrote: > > I'm sure this has been asked before, but I haven't seen it, and it bothers > me now that I actually look at it: > > "The cost of a Role depends on its status and its level.... Multiply Status > by Level, and divide the result by two." > > What happens, then, to Roles whose status is an odd number? A Role/1 with > status/1 will cost a single character point (rounding up, as per the > errata), but then why not just go for a Role/2 with status/1, as that too > costs 1 point? Yup. Although if someone is making a Role, rather than starting with it, the GM might insist on going through each step and spending appropriate amounts of time. So when they first went to 1/1, it would cost 1 point. Then after a suitable period, they would go to 2/1, at the cost of no points. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 09:53:48 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Chopping up the Revelations Cycle books "David.Evans" wrote: > > Scott sic srcipsit: > > I'm considering having the bindings sliced off all 5 of my Revelations > > Cycle books, then reorganizing them into several more focused books > > (book of Superiors, book of new rules, book of places, book of > > scenarios, etc.) and having them re-bound. Has anyone on the list done > > anything of this sort before? How did it work out? That's amusing... for approximately fifty bucks a professional book-binder would put them together for you (plus material cost). A copy-place would do it much cheaper, but with a notable decrease in attractiveness and durability. > I heard of one guy from a friend who's on the rolemaster mailing list who > unbinds all the pages from EVERY Rolemaster Book he buys, and then > LAMINATES each individual page. So, a quarter inch thick book end up > teking up a *binder* instead. It seemed to work for him... *shrugs* Hey, back when I was addled enough to play Rolemaster, I'd do much the same thing. One photocopy of every relevant page (10-12 on average) and put them in those clear, plastic page protectors, and then my character sheet in another one. When I stopped playing the character, I'd recycle the sheets for the next one. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 10:11:28 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and violent oaths Whistling in the Dark wrote: > Malakim "suffer" from what Paladins used to suffer from back in the > days of First Edition Advanced Dungeons and Dragons (and to a > lesser extent in Second, and Malphas only knows these days) -- an > overwhelming perception of what they *had* to be. They were always > Lawful Good Warriors of God who were Holy Knights on a mission with > their Holy Avengers smiting evil. It really doesn't help that the main IN book depicts Malakim in almost precisely their stereotypical form, humorless and bloodthirsty. My own first recommendation for lightening this load is to pattern Malakim on dashing and witty types -- Zorro, the Three Musketeers, Reepicheep, James Bond, John Steed, the Scarlet Pimpernel, Cyrano de Berzerac, etc. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 10:17:06 EDT From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: IN> In Nomine LARPing If anyone has kitbashed a set of LARP rules for In Nomine, could they please send them to me privately? I've got a passel of friends who want to jump ship from a badly-told WW LARP, and they've nominated me as referee. Thanks in advance, Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 10:37:25 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and violent oaths At 10:11 AM -0500 5/24/99, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Whistling in the Dark wrote: > > > Malakim "suffer" from what Paladins used to suffer from back in the > > days of First Edition Advanced Dungeons and Dragons (and to a > > lesser extent in Second, and Malphas only knows these days) -- an > > overwhelming perception of what they *had* to be. They were always > > Lawful Good Warriors of God who were Holy Knights on a mission with > > their Holy Avengers smiting evil. > >It really doesn't help that the main IN book depicts Malakim in >almost precisely their stereotypical form, humorless and >bloodthirsty. My own first recommendation for lightening this >load is to pattern Malakim on dashing and witty types -- Zorro, >the Three Musketeers, Reepicheep, James Bond, John Steed, the >Scarlet Pimpernel, Cyrano de Berzerac, etc. Very true. The one place they're referred to in the opening Vignette was as the boogyman that the Demons would have thrown against them if they didn't play ball. (I had a friend who I got enthusiastic about IN. He bought the books. He read "Bright Dream." He called me and asked if the point was that Angels were heartless and cruel and we should actively want them to leave us alone. I told him most people played the Angels and he muttered about getting his money back -- he didn't need to role play to act like a jerk. I ended up doing considerable IN spin control then....) - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 09:56:10 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine LARPing And could you send them to me, as well? I'd love to get a copy... - -----Original Message----- From: MarkDEddy@aol.com >If anyone has kitbashed a set of LARP rules for In Nomine, could they please >send them to me privately? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 16:06:25 +0100 From: "Helm, Matthew" Subject: RE: IN> In Nomine LARPing Err... ditto, please... if it's not too much trouble. Thanks Matt. >-----Original Message----- >From: Prodigal [SMTP:Prodigal@ticnet.com] >Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 3:56 PM >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine LARPing > >And could you send them to me, as well? I'd love to get a copy... > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 10:54:42 -0500 From: Shadowstar Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine LARPing At 10:17 AM -0400 5/24/99, MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: >If anyone has kitbashed a set of LARP rules for In Nomine, could they please >send them to me privately? Using the tabletop rules (with a few modifications) work fine for me. And yes, I know this is -not- Privately. *evil grin* (I'll send along the details in a little bit.) >I've got a passel of friends who want to jump ship >from a badly-told WW LARP, and they've nominated me as referee. I feel sorry for you man. . . The WW LARP's around here are doing - -better- than the In Nomine that I'm part of. . . Mind you, it -does- have a few problems. . . Problems that wouldn't be there had I been Chief-Defacto Storyteller from the start. . . *evil grin* Maybe you can send them my way? Pretty please? Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centuryinter.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://www.best.com/~lyceum/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: 24 May 1999 11:54:07 -0400 From: Scott E Kullberg Subject: Re: IN> Chopping up the Revelations Cycle books John Karakash - Lucent ASCC writes: > > That's amusing... for approximately fifty bucks a professional > book-binder would put them together for you (plus material cost). A > copy-place would do it much cheaper, but with a notable decrease in > attractiveness and durability. I'm not sure exactly how I want to have it bound, especially since there will be at least two different new books coming out of this. I'm probably not going to go with heavy professional book-binding unless what the copy place offers isn't any good. > "David.Evans" wrote: > > > I heard of one guy from a friend who's on the rolemaster mailing list who > > unbinds all the pages from EVERY Rolemaster Book he buys, and then > > LAMINATES each individual page. So, a quarter inch thick book end up > > teking up a *binder* instead. It seemed to work for him... *shrugs* > > Hey, back when I was addled enough to play Rolemaster, I'd do > much the same thing. One photocopy of every relevant page (10-12 on > average) and put them in those clear, plastic page protectors, and then > my character sheet in another one. When I stopped playing the > character, > I'd recycle the sheets for the next one. With RM you almost *have* to do something like that; RM games can otherwise be a real problem with 7 people fighting over 2 copies of the weapon tables. Some Advanced Squad Leader players put each page of the book into a drop-in page protector and put those in a binder. That frightens me- my ASLRB *already* fills two binders. But ASL is a lifestyle more than a game... - -- Scott E Kullberg <*> sekullbe@{mediaone.net|mit.edu} --><-- "I thought everyone liked "Quark" ice cream. I've got all three colors in all six flavors." -- 'Freefall' http://www.purrsia.com/freefall/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 12:14:30 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine LARPing On Mon, 24 May 1999 MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: > If anyone has kitbashed a set of LARP rules for In Nomine, could they please > send them to me privately? I've got a passel of friends who want to jump ship > from a badly-told WW LARP, and they've nominated me as referee. Patrick O'Duffy created a really good set of rules, which you can find on my In Nomine web page. The address is in my .sig file. Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit my web page: Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto Currently dedicated to In Nomine, Planescape, and Waste World - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 17:43:24 +0100 () From: "David.Evans" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine LARPing (going slightly off-topic here...) Mark sic scrpisit: > > If anyone has kitbashed a set of LARP rules for In Nomine, could they please > send them to me privately? I've got a passel of friends who want to jump ship > from a badly-told WW LARP, and they've nominated me as referee. I think there are a few self-made IN LARP rules kicking about on the web somwhere or other. As an aside, I think that *the* most important thing in any RPG, tabletop or LARP, is the GM/ST running it in the first place. <*SHRUGS*> I must be lucky, but I'va always enjoyed my WW LARP experiences. I will admit a bias here though. I'm an Officer for Camarilla UK, helping to run the Glasgow Game. I have been told though, that the UK *officially* (from their spy network) has the _very_best_ games in the whole worldwide Camrilla International Chronicle. Maybe the Brits have found a new national sport to excel at... :-) Be seeing you... David. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 13:30:13 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Minimal Spirit At 18:28 -0400 5/21/99, Steve Jessop wrote: >> I'm less enthusiastic about the constant disturbance part. To some extent, >> I'd say it's *harder* to disturb the corporeal parts of the Symphony if you >> have no Corporeal Forces. > >Hmm. Two argument against that, although I'm not fanatical on the subject. > >1) If you have no corporeal forces, you even more aren't supposed to be on >earth. The disturbance from taking celestial form I assumed was the >Symphony objecting to your face, rather than you giving the Symphony a >good old whack. Good point. I'd argue that you could interpret this another way -- that the Symphony objects to the sudden destruction of corporeal matter, but then *creating* matter (switching from cel. form into a vessel) ought to make noise, and it doesn't (as far as I recall). In fact, I think this is simply a case of game balance driving world physics: cel. form is too useful, so it needed a deterrent. Switching back is less of a balance problem. >2) It goes against the fact that roles mask disturbance - it lets you mask >your disturbance either by fitting into the Symphony (doesn't your role >roll depend on corp. forces), or by failing to fit into it, but nothing in >between. I can see the metaphysics in favour of that, it just grates >somehow. My argument here is stronger -- cel. form isn't so much "failing to fit in" as "not interacting with" the corporeal Symphony, *unless* you can also take corporeal form. But this would also argue that switching to corp. form should be noisy.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 11:21:10 -0700 From: "McCarthy, Douglas J" Subject: RE: IN> Malakim and violent oaths Here's what we ended up with. 3) Make anyone being intentionally cruel to an animal to suffer the same cruelty they imposed on the animal. 4) Aid animals first. What "aid animals first" means is that if there is a choice between helping an animal and doing anything else - killing a demon, helping a fellow angel, whatever - that the animal gets helped before the demon-killing can start. He has to heal the bird before he can go after the kids shooting at it with BB guns, for instance. - -- Doug McCarthy And this is artificial moonlight... douglas.j.mccarthy@intel.com and artificial sky. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 13:34:26 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and violent oaths I like 'em! They seem like exactly the sort of thing that Jordi would want his Malakim doing... - -----Original Message----- From: McCarthy, Douglas J >Here's what we ended up with. > >3) Make anyone being intentionally cruel to an animal to suffer the > same cruelty they imposed on the animal. >4) Aid animals first. > >What "aid animals first" means is that if there is a choice between helping >an animal and doing anything else - killing a demon, helping a fellow angel, >whatever - that the animal gets helped before the demon-killing can start. >He has to heal the bird before he can go after the kids shooting at it with >BB guns, for instance. > >-- >Doug McCarthy And this is artificial moonlight... >douglas.j.mccarthy@intel.com and artificial sky. > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 14:37:37 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Azariel the Habbalakite At 8:34 AM -0500 5/22/99, Elizabeth Bartley wrote: >It's worth noting that Domenic's Seraphs usually have high Perceptions, >and his Seraph Attunement is adding Celestial Forces to Perception (at >least for the purposes of Resonance, I forget.) I figure an *average* >Seraph of Judgement will have 4 Celestial Forces and a Perception of ten, >allowing them to succeed in their resonance except on a Diabolic >intervention AND get +2 to their check digit. (That's what I'd think, certainly...) >It's also worth noting that one of Domenic's attunements (Ofanim?) allows >you to detect *Discord* which under current mechanics would include the >Malakim's geasa. Oaths aren't Discord -- they're _oaths_. Only demons are so crass as to point out that they act just like a Geas/infinity... O;> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 14:39:06 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Familiars (Re: Loose Canons) At 12:23 PM -0400 5/22/99, EDG wrote: >At 09:30 AM 5/18/99 +0000, you wrote: > >>Of course relievers can have vessels. That's where familiars come >>from (on the angelic side, anyway). > >This has been bugging me since I read it, but I've only found implied >references to it. > >Is this true? I was under the impression that relievers and Heavenly >familiars were two entirely different types of creature. They're not. A "familiar" is just a servant-celestial spirit (reliever or demonling) with a vessel and a few other special effects. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 14:43:16 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Song of Fire Disturbance question At 9:09 PM -0700 5/23/99, Robert Knop wrote: >A demon sets a fire in a wastebasket with the Song of Fire, and then >leaves the area. There is enough paper in the wastebasket to sustain >the fire after the Song has expired. The resultant blazes goes on to >burn down a hospital, killing quite a number of people. > >How much of this will generate a Symphonic Disturbance? All of it, I'd say. The fire wouldn't have happened if the celestial hadn't started it. If he'd only dropped a match into the wastebasket, I'd rule the same way. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 18:33:33 -0400 From: EDG Subject: RE: IN> Malakim and violent oaths At 11:21 AM 5/24/99 -0700, you wrote: >4) Aid animals first. >He has to heal the bird before he can go after the kids shooting at it with >BB guns, for instance. I'm not sure that going after the kids first would be dissonant in this example, unless the bird's life were in extreme danger. It would be much more efficient to go after the kids first; unless you have no other choice, always eliminate the threat before cleaning up the damage, or else the threat remains to cause _more_ damage. In this particular case, what that means is that the bird might well get shot again during or after the healing, which would simply prolong the problem. Malakite heals bird, then goes after kids. Kids shoot bird while Malakite is en route to them. Malakite returns to bird. Repeat process indefinitely. It also leads to situations where the Malakite is stopping the car to use Corporeal Healing on the caterpillar that just got half-squished beneath a tire. I'd recommend something on the order of "Never suffer an animal to die within range of your senses, or to remain harmed for more than (X length of time), if it is my choice." - -EDG who once had a Malakite with the Oath "Define anyone actively helping me to be not evil". ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 18:15:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Benjamin Acosta Subject: Grey Situations (Was Re: IN> Azariel the Habbalakite) Elizabeth Bartley wrote: > On Fri, 21 May 1999, Benjamin Acosta wrote: > > > What's really twisted is that if the Triad actually catches up with > > Azariel he could pass their inquires with flying colors. > > It's worth noting that Domenic's Seraphs usually have high Perceptions, > and his Seraph Attunement is adding Celestial Forces to Perception (at > least for the purposes of Resonance, I forget.) I figure an *average* > Seraph of Judgement will have 4 Celestial Forces and a Perception of ten, > allowing them to succeed in their resonance except on a Diabolic > intervention AND get +2 to their check digit. > It's also worth noting that one of Domenic's attunements (Ofanim?) allows > you to detect *Discord* which under current mechanics would include the > Malakim's geasa. Oops, well it looks like he would be most likely found out if a Triad ever caught up with him. So, how much trouble would this put those who associated with him. They didn't know he wasn't a malakite. He acted just like a malakite, and even helped in serveral missions which created great setbacks to the Other Side. Also, what would a Triad want to do with him? Even though he's a demon (Azariel: "No I'm not! I'm a malakite!) he hasn't done anything "evil" and has greatly aided the forces of Heaven. A malakite ("Like me!) would be able to sense his principles, which are pretty compatible with someone on Heaven's side. In fact, unless they brought their findings to his attention, Azariel would gladly continue to give any aid he can in the War (Telling him he was a Habbalah would insult him, and he'd just go off and fight the War on his own). With his Oaths he's unlikely to go over to the other side. How do angels deal with demons who exhibit beliefs and personality traits which are not incombatible with the Heavenly Host and are in fact totally loyal to Heaven and against Hell? Other than getting a headache that is. And how would interventions work for beings like Azariel? He's a demon (Am not!) but he's loyal to Heaven and actively works against the forces of Hell. Would he really get a favorable intervention on a 666, or would Lucifer be PO'd at him enough that it would be a bad intervention? Would God be merciful enough to be kind to the faux malakite who's heart's in the right place or would the standard bad stuff happen to him on a 111? How would everyone treat such an ambiguous character? Ben, Elohite of Eli Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 00:29:21 +0100 (BST) From: Warsinger Subject: IN> Other interesting Habbalah I'm a very bouncy person in real life and would plummet like a stone as an Elohite within about 10 seconds flat. This is my why only character so far is an Ofanim :) However, suppose you have a Hellborn Habbalah who gets that Divine Intervention on an Emptiness roll and who then realises they are a demon not an angel etc etc. Now it takes a look at what it has been doing and decides to head for redemption, but looking objectively at the situation it doesn't believe that it could survive as an Elohite without falling, even assuming it managed to survive the redemption process itself. It knows the objective viewpoint it has now will wear off, but doesn't want to go back to being a deluded Habbalah, so decides to psychoanalyse itself in its deluded state and make plans so that it can truly be working for heaven despite its fallen state. I'm actually considering playing this character - so I'd like to see some potential problems aside from the obvious what exactly are those plans to be set up so that it aids heaven. Oh, rest of PC's are angelic btw. Warsinger Cute and fluffy....(with claws) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 22:33:24 -0400 From: Kim Foster Subject: IN> In Nomine related, but odd... Does anyone know what the name Azazel translates into? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 23:04:34 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine related, but odd... At 10:33 PM -0400 5/24/99, Kim Foster wrote: >Does anyone know what the name Azazel translates into? God Strengthens, according to the Dictionary of Angels. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 23:30:37 EDT From: SdshowTim@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Other interesting Habbalah In a message dated 5/24/99 7:31:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ngm1@st-andrews.ac.uk writes: << However, suppose you have a Hellborn Habbalah who gets that Divine Intervention on an Emptiness roll and who then realises they are a demon not an angel etc etc. Now it takes a look at what it has been doing and decides to head for redemption, but looking objectively at the situation it doesn't believe that it could survive as an Elohite without falling, even assuming it managed to survive the redemption process itself. It knows the objective viewpoint it has now will wear off, but doesn't want to go back to being a deluded Habbalah, so decides to psychoanalyse itself in its deluded state and make plans so that it can truly be working for heaven despite its fallen state. >> I think the problem is that a Habbalah may come to realize that their not angels, may even realize that their delusions will return and can be objective for a time. However they don't become any less selfish, meaning that if they came to the conclusion that serving heaven won't help them, through objectivity no less, its just going to push them further back into delusion to hide from ugly truths. Besides if the Habbalah really wanted to be redeemed and become angelic they would display some faith and selflessness by going through the proccess of redemption. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 09:46:03 +0100 From: "Helm, Matthew" Subject: RE: IN> Other interesting Habbalah I don't think that the Habbalah could ever _actually_ work for heaven without redeeming. I think it could do good things, but every so often, when it wasn't paying attention, or it stopped concentrating for a little bit, it would go back to it's true personality (of course it would be building up lots of dissonance in the meantime). If I were playing, or GM'ing this character, I would say that it could try to assist God's work, but to do so required a great deal of concentration, effort, and energy (sort of like trying to solve a complicated equation when you _really_ need sleep, and you have to force yourself to carry on with it. Clearly that kind of concentration couldn't be kept up for ever, and so, now and again, it would revert to demonic ways, until it realise what it had done, and started making a conscious effort to stop again. Because of this, I think it could be very difficult to integrate the character into any but the most sympathetic group of angels. As for it's plans, I think an important part of it would be to take some time out, every day, or perhaps more often (just before dawn and just before sunset would be kind of poetic, I think), to sit down and look at it's actions during the day. It should weigh up the Holy or Infernal aspects of everything it did, and make a few notes about what to keep doing and what to avoid in the future. Clearly this requires a degree of self awareness and objectivity about your actions and the world around you (Does this sound like any choir you can think off?!?). It could also try and look at the good things and turn them into projects or goals for the future, and maybe look at the bad things and see how it could make amends for it's actions. I don't know all that much about the Habbalah, so I can't suggest anything more band specific, I'm afraid. I assume that your character would be an Outcast or Renegade (I never quite got my head round the difference), in which case it could be possible to work with a group of angels, as long as there weren't too many Laurencites around. I suppose you could try and keep your demonic identity hidden, but I can't remember any rules for that, so I don't know how successful you would be. If I were GM'ing, I would say (and my humble apologies to everyone for lapsing into WW speak) that although the Habbalites Demeanor might be helpful and good, and it's heart might be in the right place, but it's nature would always be demonic until it redeemed. That's just my opinion though, feel free to ignore/slate/agree as you wish. Matt. >-----Original Message----- >From: Warsinger [SMTP:ngm1@st-andrews.ac.uk] >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 12:29 AM >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: IN> Other interesting Habbalah > > >I'm a very bouncy person in real life and would plummet like a stone as an >Elohite within about 10 seconds flat. This is my why only character so >far is an Ofanim :) > >However, suppose you have a Hellborn Habbalah who gets that Divine >Intervention on an Emptiness roll and who then realises they are a demon >not an angel etc etc. Now it takes a look at what it has been doing and >decides to head for redemption, but looking objectively at the situation >it doesn't believe that it could survive as an Elohite without falling, >even assuming it managed to survive the redemption process itself. It >knows the objective viewpoint it has now will wear off, but doesn't want >to go back to being a deluded Habbalah, so decides to psychoanalyse itself >in its deluded state and make plans so that it can truly be working for >heaven despite its fallen state. > >I'm actually considering playing this character - so I'd like to see some >potential problems aside from the obvious what exactly are those plans to >be set up so that it aids heaven. Oh, rest of PC's are angelic btw. > >Warsinger >Cute and fluffy....(with claws) > > ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1236 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.