From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Jul 1 20:34:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA28466 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 20:34:43 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id UAA27728 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 20:31:52 -0500 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 20:31:52 -0500 Message-Id: <199907020131.UAA27728@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1272 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, July 1 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1272 In this digest: IN> Just a question? Re: IN> Just a question? RE: IN> Just a question? Re: IN> Just a question? Re: IN> RE: IN- Do relievers have to fledge? Re: IN> Making Brights (was: Do relievers have to fledge?) Re: IN> Blow the Lid Off! (was Superiors) Re: IN> Blow the Lid Off! IN> Seraphim and the truth Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth Re: IN> Just a question? Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth Re: IN> Shedim and hosts Re: IN> Blow the Lid Off! IN> Hearts Re: IN> Just a question? Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth Re: IN> Not-Quite-Topic: A potential copyright problem... Re: IN> RE: IN- Do relievers have to fledge? Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth Re: IN> Hearts Re: IN> Blow the Lid Off! Re: IN> Making Brights (was: Do relievers have to fledge?) Re: IN> Making Brights (was: Do relievers have to fledge?) IN> In Nomine LARP's (WAS: RE: Dragoncon) Re: IN> RE: IN- Do relievers have to fledge? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 20:46:53 -0400 From: "Eddie" Subject: IN> Just a question? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BEC339.AF76C020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was wondering. How many of you that run In Nomine run your campaigns = one hundred percent Cannon? - ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BEC339.AF76C020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I was wondering. How many of you that run In Nomine run your=20 campaigns one hundred percent Cannon?

- ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BEC339.AF76C020-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 19:49:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Elizabeth Bartley Subject: Re: IN> Just a question? On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, Eddie wrote: > I was wondering. How many of you that run In Nomine run your > campaigns one hundred percent Cannon? The game that I'm in (two-person, we both GM but the other guy GMs more) is anything but canon. Lucifer just went Renegade.... Elizabeth Bartley e-bartley@pobox.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 17:51:29 -0700 From: Steven Feldon Subject: RE: IN> Just a question? My game is very close to canon, except I've added three demon princes, details on the Archangel of Death, and [Spoilers for Night Music after spoiler space] Mitrah isn't in a cold war situation with Frex. She just (well, with help) blew up Austin. (Furfur's going to try for his word in LA, and _that's_ what's going to drive Maximilian over the edge: knowing that he can't stop a new Demon Prince from being crowned, right in front of him. . . . ) steve - -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth Bartley [mailto:ebartley@enteract.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 5:50 PM To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: Re: IN> Just a question? On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, Eddie wrote: > I was wondering. How many of you that run In Nomine run your > campaigns one hundred percent Cannon? The game that I'm in (two-person, we both GM but the other guy GMs more) is anything but canon. Lucifer just went Renegade.... Elizabeth Bartley e-bartley@pobox.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 17:57:43 -0700 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: Re: IN> Just a question? Our spies report that on 08:46 PM 6/30/99 -0400, Eddie said: > How many of you that run In Nomine run your campaigns one hundred >percent Cannon? I can predict the answer for you. Zero. Especially on this list, you will find a lot of people run at minor percentages of Canon. Isn't it grand that so many people have been able to make the Angel/Demon sort of game they really want based on In Nomine? I myself tend to use a few houserules for balance in combat and I have disregarded a lot of the latter rules about attunements and restrictions thereof. Sean ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 21:41:46 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> RE: IN- Do relievers have to fledge? but here's the big question: what are the resonance and dissonance restrictions of a Grigori? and what superior in his right mind would risk taking a Grigori under his protection? perhaps this would prompt a return appearance of Eli? - - Dennis H. Groome V "Amo Nympham" nallix@bellsouth.net ICQ: 11430261 "I think I woke up screaming 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -"ACF", Stabbing Westward - -----Original Message----- From: Acosta, Ben To: 'in_nomine-l@lists.io.com ' Date: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 4:52 AM Subject: IN> RE: IN- Do relievers have to fledge? > On Tue, 29 Jun 1999, Eddie wrote: > >> My question is why can't one fledge as a Grigori, why should they have >to >> suffer from someone else's mistakes? >> What ever happened to, to forgive is Divine. It was not them but >Grigori >> 1000s of years ago that caused the problem. >> You can have redeemed just about anything. Why no Grigori? > >This gives me an interesting idea for a story seed: > >After millenia of their absence from Heaven, for some reason a reliever >fledges into a Grigori. After a tumultuous hearing in the Seraphim Council >in reaction to this unprecedented event it is ruled that the new angel in >question be put under probation. Where do the PC's come in? It's their job >to work with him and help evaluate how he does. Their lives become much >more interesting as Triads pop in "just to check", servitors of various >Superiors give recruitment pitches to the new angel, demons who find out try >to give their recruitment pitches, and the Grigori >still left watch and wait. > >Ben, Elohite of Eli >Angel of Neat Ideas > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 21:56:46 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> Making Brights (was: Do relievers have to fledge?) - - Dennis H. Groome V "Amo Nympham" nallix@bellsouth.net ICQ: 11430261 "I think I woke up screaming 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -"ACF", Stabbing Westward - -----Original Message----- From: Earl Wajenberg To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 8:34 AM Subject: Re: IN> Making Brights (was: Do relievers have to fledge?) >Amo Nympham wrote: >> >> for the angels, a kyriotate would have an easier time relating to a >> human than, say, and elohite or a malakite. as for demons, demons >> are selfish, something which brings them overall closer to humanity. >> with the demons the "divinity" scale doesn't quite work, it tends to >> function on a completely different level. for example: the most >> divine, the Seraphim, have some serious problems when interacting >> with humanity. now a Balseraph would have no problems whatsoever. > >That's a pretty dark view of humanity! If humans and demons have >selfishness in common, humans and angels have selflessness in common; >humanity encompasses both, after all. how many people can you name, that you know, that are more selfish? now how many people can you name, that you know, that are selfless? a third of that amount? half if pushing it? it may be a dark view, certainly cynical at best, but it seems to be one more accurate in modern day. in order to keep this on-topic: i've had several players, characters i've played myself, and just people who've read teh books express either a concern that hell is winning the war or is humanity really worth saving? is the war worth the effort? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 22:05:31 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> Blow the Lid Off! (was Superiors) - - Dennis H. Groome V "Amo Nympham" nallix@bellsouth.net ICQ: 11430261 "I think I woke up screaming 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -"ACF", Stabbing Westward - -----Original Message----- From: Frank Lazar To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 8:49 AM Subject: Re: IN> Blow the Lid Off! (was Superiors) >At 3:22 PM -0400 6/29/99, BillionSix@aol.com wrote: >\ > > >> Would Blandine or Beleth allow such vessels at all, given their dissonance >>conditions? > > They'd be the ones to probably freak out the most about the War going >public. but don't they already fight the war in public on a certain level? every person dreams, every person enters their domain and becomes a battleground for the war when beleth and blandine's servitors wage war in humanitie's dreams, not to mention the interference by the etherials... which brings me to a good question...what do the celestials think about Morpheus, or any of the other pagan gods of Dreams and Sleep? > >> Something to think about, anyway. I'm still trying to figure out what an >>Archangel of the Media would be like. :) >> > > > It'd be the one pushing for subscriptions to PBS and National Public Radio? > not to mention The Learning Channel or Discovery. personally, I think the damage has already been done, Nybbas has already got a firm grip on society and their lust for media containing nudity, violence, sex, and all the negative things of life. ask most people what they would rather watch: HBO's Real Sex or TLC's latest on wheat farming? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 22:39:08 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> Blow the Lid Off! - - Dennis H. Groome V "Amo Nympham" nallix@bellsouth.net ICQ: 11430261 "I think I woke up screaming 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -"ACF", Stabbing Westward - -----Original Message----- From: Earl Wajenberg To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 9:11 AM Subject: Re: IN> Blow the Lid Off! > >It might be a little like the current situation with intelligence >agencies. I mean, we know they're out there, but we don't expect >to see a spy on the streets, not so as to know they're spies. Likewise >with celestials after the Blow. (This is, in fact, the way many >of us who really believe in angels feel about them. We know they're >there, but we don't expect encounters.) but then we have a whole new era of looking of the shoulder for commies, only this time it's the angels here to save you (like people are going to buy that one when you have warriors like Malakim slaying all over and the formless Kyriotates possessing bodies) and the demons here to take your souls, only my bet is people won't make that distinction. > >On the other hand, some certain few high officials connected to the >intelligence community show up on TV and before congress and the like. >Likewise, once the cover is blown, there might be a few >"spokes-spirits" who show up on TV for interviews and appear (*poof!*) >before various official bodies. I'm thinking interviews at the >Vatican, here, and before the World Council of Churches, and audiences >with the Dalai Lama, etc. i think it would start a while new era of holy wars, competition as to who has the one true religion. their proof: the angels have come to show that their religion is the true one. as for teh demons, they are in leauge with our enemies, angels they have corrupted to their vile purposes. prepare for the new Crusade (or Jyhad). > >Vampires and mummies might come out of the closet some; Grigori would >not. i don't thikn so. now we have demon hunters, and vampires and mummies would reveal themselves? that would only bring down incredible amounts of heat on them, and it's bad enough with vampires who have rather crippling weaknesses. > >Belial, Beleth, and the like, would shift gears into more openly >terrorist tactics. Blandine and Gabriel would have to get less >subtle (Yeah, I know -- Gabriel? Subtle?) in response. why would Beleth and Blandine become less subtle? they mostly stick to the Marches in their part of the war, it is their domain. i don't think most of their celestials are meant for duty earthside: Blandine's and Beleth's dissonance restriction is taking celestial form, which infers that they should keep the war even more secret and only fight it in their dreams. > >If openness gains momentum, if secrecy gets less and less useful >or possible, you get something that looks like a supers game, with >Songs and resonnances instead of superpowers. You might also be >escalating rapidly toward Armageddon. making it open warfare would only make it easier for celestials to find and destroy one another, and is not celestials waring openly among humanity one of the signs of Armageddon? > >Ethereal reaction might be very confused, at least at first. But >it'd be a strong reaction, because all of a sudden they're getting >a lot more Essence from BELIEF. I mean, if there are angels and >devils, why not fays? Why not the Old Gods? Heck, Ethereals might >find themselves getting dragged to Earth because enough people are >now expecting them to put in an appearance. > I don't think open knowledge of celestials would prompt more belief in the ethereals. rather, why would people believe in ancient gods when you have proof right in front of you of seeming Christian beliefs. I think if anything Christianity and Islam would see huge swells of members. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 00:21:45 -0400 From: "Yves Dorval" Subject: IN> Seraphim and the truth Thinking about Seraphim and their dissonance, I quickly realised that if a Seraph made a promise of any kind and did not keep his word (either because the Seraph promised more than he could offer or something prevents him from making good on his word), he would generate a note of dissonance because what promised never became true... Anyone else have little *quirks* like this to share? Jason would be angel of cookies ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:23:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Elizabeth Bartley Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth On Thu, 1 Jul 1999, Yves Dorval wrote: > Thinking about Seraphim and their dissonance, I quickly realised that > if a Seraph made a promise of any kind and did not keep his word > (either because the Seraph promised more than he could offer or > something prevents him from making good on his word), he would > generate a note of dissonance because what promised never became > true... Anyone else have little *quirks* like this to share? I don't think this would generate dissonance unless the Seraph planned to break the promise as he made it. I don't believe Seraphim generate dissonance for being mistaken. Elizabeth Bartley e-bartley@pobox.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 00:36:33 -0400 From: "Jason Terlecki" Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth - -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth Bartley To: In Nomine mailing list Date: Thursday, July 01, 1999 12:28 AM Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth >On Thu, 1 Jul 1999, Yves Dorval wrote: > >> Thinking about Seraphim and their dissonance, I quickly realised that >> if a Seraph made a promise of any kind and did not keep his word >> (either because the Seraph promised more than he could offer or >> something prevents him from making good on his word), he would >> generate a note of dissonance because what promised never became >> true... Anyone else have little *quirks* like this to share? > >I don't think this would generate dissonance unless the Seraph planned to >break the promise as he made it. I don't believe Seraphim generate >dissonance for being mistaken. > > Elizabeth Bartley e-bartley@pobox.com > But if the Seraph realised he could not accomplish what was promised and did not do anything to make amends in some way (like a basic apology or the likes), would he then generate dissonance? Once he knows and does not do anything about it, it keeps a lie alive, no? Jason would be angel of cookies ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:31:55 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> Just a question? I run my games almost completely canon, with only a few slight modifications. the most common modifications I've seen in games tend to be the contrast and brightness settings. - - Dennis H. Groome V "Amo Nympham" nallix@bellsouth.net ICQ: 11430261 "I think I woke up screaming 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -"ACF", Stabbing Westward -----Original Message----- From: Eddie To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 7:47 PM Subject: IN> Just a question? I was wondering. How many of you that run In Nomine run your campaigns one hundred percent Cannon? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:39:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Elizabeth Bartley Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth On Thu, 1 Jul 1999, Jason Terlecki wrote: > But if the Seraph realised he could not accomplish what was promised > and did not do anything to make amends in some way (like a basic > apology or the likes), would he then generate dissonance? Once he > knows and does not do anything about it, it keeps a lie alive, no? Since a Seraph doesn't generate dissonance by sitting there silently while his friends lie on his behalf, I can't think that not correcting a statement that he thought was true at the time would do so. Elizabeth Bartley e-bartley@pobox.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:39:27 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth that raises a good question: is the dissonance restriction for when a Seraph knowing lies, or is it with the overall cosmic Truth? for instance: if a Seraph sees an outcast get vessel-killed, and he doesn't know that the outcast has another vessel, if he says "The Outcast is in Limbo" when in reality the Outcast is about a block away, does he take Dissonance? - - Dennis H. Groome V "Amo Nympham" nallix@bellsouth.net ICQ: 11430261 "I think I woke up screaming 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -"ACF", Stabbing Westward - -----Original Message----- From: Yves Dorval To: In Nomine mailing list Date: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 11:24 PM Subject: IN> Seraphim and the truth >Thinking about Seraphim and their dissonance, I quickly realised that if a >Seraph made a promise of any kind and did not keep his word (either because >the Seraph promised more than he could offer or something prevents him from >making good on his word), he would generate a note of dissonance because >what promised never became true... Anyone else have little *quirks* like >this to share? > > >Jason >would be angel of cookies > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:42:03 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth of course they shouldn't. with the way Seraphim dance around words with humans, if they got Dissonance every time they were misunderstood they would all be Outcast or Fallen within a month. - - Dennis H. Groome V "Amo Nympham" nallix@bellsouth.net ICQ: 11430261 "I think I woke up screaming 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -"ACF", Stabbing Westward - -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth Bartley To: In Nomine mailing list Date: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 11:27 PM Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth >I don't think this would generate dissonance unless the Seraph planned to >break the promise as he made it. I don't believe Seraphim generate >dissonance for being mistaken. > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 01:04:10 -0400 From: Frank Lazar Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and hosts At 1:29 PM -0800 11/29/99, Steel Angel wrote: >Hilary Hayes wrote: > >> I don't think so either. However, the host =does= know they're suddenly >> doing stuff they wouldn't normally do. Similarly, the Shedite sometimes >> has to 'push' the host. > > I disagree. Remember, Shedim are -subtle- about it to start with. They >DO make the host do things the host would normally do, they just push a >-tiny- bit at first. Remember, it's the rare and usually inexperienced >Shedite who grabs a new host and goes on a shooting spree the same day. >At first, you may not tip a waitress...that's -hardly- call for a host >to question his sanity. Then you up the ante -very- slowly and subtly, >so that each new day brings a -tiny- increment of corruption in. A good >Shedite can ride a host for -months- if it's careful, only then moving >on to the much-coveted 'belltower time'. By then, the fall into >corruption has been so gradual that no, the host probably -won't- be >questioning their actions much at all. > In the original incarnation of the Ars Magica game in the Lion Rampant days, there was a passage on how some demons would posess hosts momentarily and make them do minor things of evil such as lie, etc. The moment of truth would be whether the formerly posessed acknowledged and repented of his sin (in which case Heaven would not count it against him) or whether he would deny, cover up or act as it had been his idea all along. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | _ | | We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. /_\ | | We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, // \\ | | Crystal and scanner, holographic demons, \\ //___\\ | | And invocations of equations. \\ // \\ | | \\__// \\ | | These are the tools we employ. And we know... many things. \\ | | \\ | | | | \\ | - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 02:30:42 -0500 From: Trent Subject: Re: IN> Blow the Lid Off! Amo Nympham wrote: > > - Dennis H. Groome V "Amo Nympham" > nallix@bellsouth.net > ICQ: 11430261 > "I think I woke up screaming > 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" > -"ACF", Stabbing Westward > -----Original Message----- > From: Earl Wajenberg > To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > Date: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 9:11 AM > Subject: Re: IN> Blow the Lid Off! > > > > >It might be a little like the current situation with intelligence > >agencies. I mean, we know they're out there, but we don't expect > >to see a spy on the streets, not so as to know they're spies. Likewise > >with celestials after the Blow. (This is, in fact, the way many > >of us who really believe in angels feel about them. We know they're > >there, but we don't expect encounters.) > > but then we have a whole new era of looking of the shoulder for commies, > only this time it's the angels here to save you (like people are going to > buy that one when you have warriors like Malakim slaying all over and the > formless Kyriotates possessing bodies) and the demons here to take your > souls, only my bet is people won't make that distinction. > and don't forget the difficulty people would have telling the angels of Janus from the demon of Valefor's demons. Not to menton the stuff that Janus does just ticking off most goverments/chruches/instuitions. Trent angel of Healthy Confusion. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 10:18:42 -0500 From: Eeyore Subject: IN> Hearts Does it say anywhere just what a celstial's Heart is capable of? I checked all of the index references in the main book as well as the IPG and APG; they all referred to aspects of Hearts, but I couldn't find anything giving the whole explanation. There isn't one in the FAQ, either. Did I miss something as I looked? Is there a description that's not listed in one of the indexes? Do we not have a complete description? There are references that a Superior can track a celestial through the Heart, but I didn't find any explanation of just how well. What sorts of information do they get, and can a non-Superior do this? I seem to remember that Discord is reflected in a Heart, but I'm not sure. Becoming Outcast and Falling/Redeeming is reflected in the Heart. J. Michael Neal ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:36:04 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Just a question? At 5:57 PM -0700 6/30/99, Sean McCarthy wrote: >Our spies report that on 08:46 PM 6/30/99 -0400, Eddie said: >> How many of you that run In Nomine run your campaigns one hundred >>percent Cannon? > > I can predict the answer for you. Zero. Especially on this list, you >will find a lot of people run at minor percentages of Canon. I agree with that. Heck, _I_ don't run 100% canon, and I'm the LE! (Is my Amnesia game canon? Heh heh heh. No, though it's the closest...) Mind, I do have a slight advantage if I utterly, totally, completely barf when I see what someone writes. O:> (This is why there are no canon police -- had to chain them all up when they whined at me about In Nomine Illuminati University.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:36:09 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth At 12:21 AM -0400 7/1/99, Yves Dorval wrote: >Thinking about Seraphim and their dissonance, I quickly realised that if a >Seraph made a promise of any kind and did not keep his word (either because >the Seraph promised more than he could offer or something prevents him from >making good on his word), he would generate a note of dissonance because >what promised never became true... This is why Seraphim (smart ones, anyway) promise "I will do the best I can to [rest of the promise]" if they're at all unsure. (In the angelic tongue, such qualifiers are automatically added; Seraphim on Earth can be very pedantic!) But yup, I play it that way too. I might be a bit more lenient if the Seraph was _prevented_ or _mistaken_ -- but he'd still think it was highly noxious, if not _quite_ dissonant. (If the PC were angsting over it enough, then I'd figure that dissonance wasn't really necessary, because the PC was roleplaying appropriate disgust at an unwitting untruth. Of course, the value of "enough" would depend on circumstances.) Which doesn't necessarily mean that he'd have to go and tell the person, but he ought to _want_ to make good on it. Promising something he _knows_ he'll be prevented from doing ("Why, yes, Prince Andre, I'll be there at eight, right after I talk to my Archangel; I'm sure dinner with you will be very educational.") is a definite lie, though. At 11:39 PM -0500 6/30/99, Amo Nympham wrote: >that raises a good question: is the dissonance restriction for when a >Seraph knowing lies, or is it with the overall cosmic Truth? The former. > for instance: >if a Seraph sees an outcast get vessel-killed, and he doesn't know that the >outcast has another vessel, if he says "The Outcast is in Limbo" when in >reality the Outcast is about a block away, does he take Dissonance? No, though if he later finds out (or self-resonates and gets a 6 CD; a mechanic which is logical but which I'm not sure if _I_ like), he will feel bad about the error. This is why wise Seraphim say things like, "I believe the Outcast is in Limbo now." I'd play it, that the more socialized Seraphim can sometimes wrap their little minds around the concept that Earthly languages _do_ contain implicit "God willing" and "it is my belief that" clauses -- and they can be freer in their speech. When necessary. The over-socialized Seraphim discover they've unwittingly said an untruth and rationalize it into, "Of course I meant 'I think this is so.' Of course I was doing my best to keep the promise and meant 'if I can.' OF COURSE I MEANT THAT. HOW COULD I MEAN ANYTHING ELSE? I MEANT THAT AND IT IS *TRUE* THAT I MEANT IT!" - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:36:15 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Not-Quite-Topic: A potential copyright problem... I got forwarded this URL... http://www.news.com/News/Item/0%2C4%2C38643%2C00.html?sas.mail Yahoo's tweaked the phrasing -- might or might not be enough to reassure people. (I'm asking my superiors about it now. O:> ) Anyway, a couple of interesting paragraphs. Such expansive terms are not specific to Yahoo, however. Xoom.com and Lycos's Tripod are among those that have terms worded nearly identically. Taking a cue from the pressure put on Yahoo, Tripod has also tweaked its terms of service, adding the phrase: "...for the limited purposes of displaying and promoting the user's personal homepage and for displaying the content of such personal homepages elsewhere within the Lycos Network." (That Tripod tweak doesn't look bad to me -- of course, I'm not a lawyer. I just know a few buzzwords. O:> ) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:36:06 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> RE: IN- Do relievers have to fledge? At 9:41 PM -0500 6/30/99, Amo Nympham wrote: >but here's the big question: what are the resonance and dissonance >restrictions of a Grigori? Plug: GURPS IN is in playtest on Pyramid ($15 for a year's subscription, new stuff every week, access to playtest material), and the playtest draft is trying to be forward-compatible. This mean, well, that there are GURPS- style mechanics for... things which aren't in the main book. O:> End plug. You can scream at me now. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 16:28:14 +0100 (BST) From: Steve Jessop Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, Amo Nympham wrote: > if a Seraph sees an outcast get vessel-killed, and he doesn't know that the > outcast has another vessel, if he says "The Outcast is in Limbo" when in > reality the Outcast is about a block away, does he take Dissonance? The Seraph would get dissonance if he had thought of the possibility of the Outcast not being in Limbo, but made the definitive statement 'the Outcast is in Limbo' anyway. Stating a possibility as absolute fact is bad. In that situation, the Seraph should get dissonance irrespective of whether the Outcast is in or out of Limbo - otherwise Seraphim could make statements like 'God is a fish', and discover something fundamental about the universe by checking whether they get dissonance. If he hadn't thought of the possibility, he isn't lying if he fails to mention it. Even if the reason he didn't think of it is sheer stupidity. If he saw the Outcast vessel-killed, then the Outcast needs another vessel *and a body bag* to avoid Limbo. So what the Seraph should say is something like 'The Outcast is probably in Limbo' (true since most Outcasts don't have body bags). Or 'I think the Outcast is in Limbo' (True provided he has, in his opinion, discounted the possibility of a body bag). He might add (especially on further questioning): 'If the Outcast had a spare vessel in a body bag when he was killed, then he would not have gone to Limbo at that time. Furthermore, if the Outcast was a Kyriotate inhabiting another host, he would not have gone to Limbo as a result. Finally, if that was not in fact the Outcast we saw die, but some illusion, simulacrum, disguise, Corporeal Projection, or CGI effect, then odds are he isn't in Limbo. Oh yes, and they might have been fake bullets. Perhaps we should check the corpse'. This is why Seraphim and Mercurians don't get on. Steve. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 12:48:07 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Hearts At 10:18 AM -0500 7/1/99, Eeyore wrote: >Does it say anywhere just what a celstial's Heart is capable of? I >checked all of the index references in the main book as well as the IPG >and APG; they all referred to aspects of Hearts, but I couldn't find >anything giving the whole explanation. There isn't one in the FAQ, >either. Did I miss something as I looked? Is there a description >that's not listed in one of the indexes? Do we not have a complete >description? It's mostly in the two boxes, and little snippets here and there, I recall... It probably all assembles into one big explanation... >There are references that a Superior can track a celestial through the >Heart, but I didn't find any explanation of just how well. What sorts >of information do they get, and can a non-Superior do this? The key place is that a Prince can do it, taken from the box on p. 185 of the main book. The quote is: "wherever you go, your Prince can grab your Heart and squeeze . . . and find you." Angelic Hearts are probably also beacons to an Archangel, and, "If [...] a friend can reach your Heart, a few moments of meditation will show him, inside the globe, where you are." I've always taken this to mean "immediate area," not "as according to the celestial GPS." Now, with the Celestial Song of Affinity (or maybe _any_ Song of Affinity, with a Heart!), from either the Liber Reliquarum, the Liber Canticorum, or the playtest version of GURPS IN, you can _definitely_ get a link to someone via something so connected to that person as his Heart -- so the property of tracking someone down via their Heart doesn't have to be an innate property of Hearts. (It's an innate property of the interaction between the Song of Affinity and a Heart.) Hearts also flare brighter when their owner is in the celestial realm. >I seem to >remember that Discord is reflected in a Heart, but I'm not sure. >Becoming Outcast and Falling/Redeeming is reflected in the Heart. Discord isn't reflected in Hearts -- it's reflected in one's celestial form. If you become Outcast, your Heart cracks and goes dim. If you Fall, redeem, become a remnant, or are soul-killed, your Heart shatters into little crystal shards. In general, there's no way to tell _why_ a Heart shattered -- it could be any of those above... (But a cracked Heart is always an Outcast's.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 13:59:56 -0400 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Blow the Lid Off! At 10:02 AM 6/30/99 -0500, you wrote: >Actually, I'd think "blowing the lid off" would be one hell\\\\ er, >one heck of a boost for Lithroy, Archangel of Revelation, and an >equally BAD thing for the Demon Prince of Sercets, whatever its >name is. Alaemon, if someone hasn't already answered. >People would start lining up, volunteering to become Soldiers of >God or Hell. And there might be recruiting offices... As relates to intelligence agencies: The CIA has, of late, been advertising in the local newspaper(s?), trying to recruit "secret agents". I'd love to see the celestials doing the same thing... "Okay, Honey, I'm going down to the recruiting center to become a Soldier of God now!" - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:56:31 -0400 From: Hilary Hayes Subject: Re: IN> Making Brights (was: Do relievers have to fledge?) From Ashley >>I don't think that Control would be the right Word, unless the contrast has been turned way down in your campaign. The contrast is usually turned way down and brightness at mid point. Just me personal choice and style. Ashley. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:56:33 -0400 From: Hilary Hayes Subject: Re: IN> Making Brights (was: Do relievers have to fledge?) From Ashley >>Better yet, try the Word of Loyalty. Like it. like it a lot. Dominic would love it. Ashley. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 15:14:31 -0500 From: Shadowstar Subject: IN> In Nomine LARP's (WAS: RE: Dragoncon) *A Bals. . . Er, Malakite pouting.* All this talk about running In Nomine LARPs. . . And the one that I'm part of is spiralling down into utter oblivion. *sigh* Do any of my people have any honor? Oh, right. . . I can check that, can't I? Anyway, I'd like to hear from any of you out there about your In-Nom-Larp experiences. . . Oh, and EDG. . . Now that you're the Demon Prince of the SJGames Official Webpage, like can you prod them about the In Nomine LARP book? *grin* Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centuryinter.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://www.best.com/~lyceum/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 20:16:10 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> RE: IN- Do relievers have to fledge? silly me...I am a subscriber, and I have the IN playtest files sitting on my desktop, as yet untouched...I'll be sure to check them out right now . . . hmm....I don't see any reference to their dissonance or resonance...has the file been updated recently? it was a while back when I downloaded it. the only references I could find to the Grigori were veiled references to two Grigori Archangels and a consideration of Eli's servitors to be the new Grigori, corrupted by the sins of the flesh. - - Dennis H. Groome V "Amo Nympham" nallix@bellsouth.net ICQ: 11430261 "I think I woke up screaming 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -"ACF", Stabbing Westward - -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth McCoy To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Thursday, July 01, 1999 10:39 AM Subject: Re: IN> RE: IN- Do relievers have to fledge? >At 9:41 PM -0500 6/30/99, Amo Nympham wrote: >>but here's the big question: what are the resonance and dissonance >>restrictions of a Grigori? > > Plug: GURPS IN is in playtest on Pyramid ($15 for a year's subscription, >new stuff every week, access to playtest material), and the playtest draft >is trying to be forward-compatible. This mean, well, that there are GURPS- >style mechanics for... things which aren't in the main book. O:> > >End plug. You can scream at me now. > > >--emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor >GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ > > > ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1272 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.