From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Jul 2 18:05:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA25858 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 18:05:53 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id SAA13453 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 18:03:29 -0500 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 18:03:29 -0500 Message-Id: <199907022303.SAA13453@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1273 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, July 2 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1273 In this digest: Re: IN> RE: IN- Do relievers have to fledge? Re: IN> Hearts Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth Re: IN> Hearts Re: IN> Hearts Re: IN> Hearts Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth Re: IN> Hearts Re: IN> Hearts Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth IN> Hearts of Dream Re: IN> Hearts IN> Roles IN> Archangel's Hearts (Was: Re: IN> Hearts) Re: IN> Re: Fighting in Inomine Re: IN> Hearts Re: IN> Roles Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth Re: IN> Re: Fighting in Inomine Re: IN> Re: Fighting in Inomine Re: IN> Re: Fighting in Inomine Re: IN> Roles Re: IN> Roles Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth Re: IN> Roles Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth Re: IN> Re: Fighting in Inomine Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth Re: IN> Re: Fighting in Inomine Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 21:57:06 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> RE: IN- Do relievers have to fledge? At 8:16 PM -0500 7/1/99, Amo Nympham wrote: >silly me...I am a subscriber, and I have the IN playtest files sitting on my >desktop, as yet untouched...I'll be sure to check them out right now > >. >. >. > >hmm....I don't see any reference to their dissonance or resonance...has the >file been updated recently? it was a while back when I downloaded it. the >only references I could find to the Grigori were veiled references to two >Grigori Archangels and a consideration of Eli's servitors to be the new >Grigori, corrupted by the sins of the flesh. Well, go look again, thou silly. O:> (Yes, Choirs & Bands chapter went up recently. Surely you didn't think that we were only going to put up a few chapters? It was just taking a while to get the first draft finished. Umpty jillion Band/Choir/Servitor Attunements and Distinctions to convert, dontcha know.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 19:58:10 -0700 (PDT) From: -=|horsefly|=- Subject: Re: IN> Hearts can Hearts be moved out of the celestial realm? -=|horsefly|=- "Back off, preacher, I don't care if it's Sunday. I ain't no angel, but I never felt better!" --FREEDOM, Alice Cooper ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 23:34:20 EDT From: SdshowTim@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth This is a lot like my opinion of Fate's Balseraph taking the seraph resonance. A Seraph picks up on what is true at the moment and what is true in context to what they know (ie the Truth is always that God is right). This means a seraph might set off their own resonance at times (ie they think that something is in the thrid house on the street, tell someone that, when in fact its the first house). Persisting with such a lie once their resonance told them it was such would incure a note of dissidence. Likewise high enough cd would tell a seraph it was impossible to keep a promise, and if they didn't explain they couldn't fufill it before they had to they would incure dissidence. This means a balseraph of fate gets double dissidence from their lies, but always believes what their saying so can use the seraph resonance (and would infact be more into near truths and embelishing, not to mention basing things on evidence). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 01:11:26 -0400 From: "Eddie" Subject: Re: IN> Hearts I would say categorically yes, after all Blandine has enough of them in the Marches. Remember her Cathedral is in the Ethereal plane - ----- Original Message ----- From: -=|horsefly|=- To: Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 10:58 PM Subject: Re: IN> Hearts > can Hearts be moved out of the celestial realm? > -=|horsefly|=- > > "Back off, preacher, I don't care if it's Sunday. > I ain't no angel, but I never felt better!" > --FREEDOM, Alice Cooper > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 01:10:08 -0400 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Hearts At 07:58 PM 7/1/99 -0700, you wrote: >can Hearts be moved out of the celestial realm? Nope. IN 137: "Hearts cannot be removed from Heaven." 185 implies that demonic Hearts are the same way. "What about Blandine, who keeps her Hearts in the Marches or her Tower?" you ask. Here's a hint: You can't remove something from a place it's never been... - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 04:18:24 -0400 From: "Eddie" Subject: Re: IN> Hearts New question: since you say according to IN 137 & 185 hearts can't be removed from Heaven. What does Blandine do when she wants to create a new Angel? Swim upstream to the Celestial like a salmon? So she can lay the Heart egg in some special spawning ground. So where does she keep the hearts of her Angels then? Also then where is her heart mmmm? I would think that an Archangel would have possession of their own hearts. - ----- Original Message ----- From: EDG To: Sent: Friday, July 02, 1999 1:10 AM Subject: Re: IN> Hearts > At 07:58 PM 7/1/99 -0700, you wrote: > >can Hearts be moved out of the celestial realm? > > Nope. IN 137: "Hearts cannot be removed from Heaven." 185 implies that > demonic Hearts are the same way. > > "What about Blandine, who keeps her Hearts in the Marches or her Tower?" > you ask. Here's a hint: You can't remove something from a place it's never > been... > > -EDG > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 01:20:26 -0700 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth SdshowTim@aol.com wrote: > This is a lot like my opinion of Fate's Balseraph taking the seraph resonance. > A Seraph picks up on what is true at the moment and what is true in context > to what they know (ie the Truth is always that God is right). This means a > seraph might set off their own resonance at times (ie they think that > something is in the thrid house on the street, tell someone that, when in > fact its the first house). Persisting with such a lie once their resonance > told them it was such would incure a note of dissidence. This makes it -way- too easy for a Seraph to use their Resonance as an "everything detector". If a Seraph wants to find someone, all he has to do is start talking aloud. "Delilah is in the US" True "Delilah is in the Western US" True "Delilah is in the northwest" False "Delilah is in the southwestt" True "Delilah is in " (do it until he gets) True "Delilah is in the north part of " True "Delilah is in a small town" False "Delilah is in a big city" True "Delilah is in " True This makes it about nine steps or so to find someone whose general location you know. The same applies to anyone's nature. "Someone in this room is a demon" True "The demon is sitting down" False You see where this could lead. Seraphim -can- be mistaken without incurring Dissonance. If he says (and almost no Seraph would EVER say something in those terms unless he -was- utterly sure (ie, could see/sense said person). Most Seraphim would say something like "I believe Delilah is in the third house." which is -quite- true, because that is what the Seraph believes. Unless, of course, you meant BALseraph in that example. If that's the case, I'd say a Balseraph of Fate would have to be insane to take the Seraph Resonance, since the Dissonance condition cripplies his Band Resonance. - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 01:33:25 -0700 (PDT) From: -=|horsefly|=- Subject: Re: IN> Hearts heh, yeah, one would think the Archangel of Dreams kept her Heart in the Marches with all of her Servitors' Hearts, but what if she couldn't, just like all the other Heaven-born? what if *none* of the Archangels have possession of their Hearts, because Superiors' Hearts are all in the Higher Heavens with the Divine? do the Princes' Hearts lie in some only- Lucifer-knows location? well, maybe Yves could say, but i doubt he will. -=|horsefly|=- _Illegitimi non corborundum._ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 01:38:30 -0700 From: "Sean McCarthy" Subject: Re: IN> Hearts "What about Blandine, who keeps her Hearts in the Marches or her Tower?" > you ask. Here's a hint: You can't remove something from a place it's never > been... > > -EDG > Or, to give a perfectly straight answer: The Hearts were created there. Also, her Tower is a Tether from the Ethereal to the Celestial as well as being a Cathedral It is, I'd say, an exception. Can a Superior create a Heart anywhere? Maybe...but that's not as clearly answered. Sean ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 21:13:09 +1000 From: "Shane" Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth On 2 Jul 99, at 1:20, Steel Angel wrote: > SdshowTim@aol.com wrote: > > This is a lot like my opinion of Fate's Balseraph taking the seraph > > resonance. A Seraph picks up on what is true at the moment and what is > > true in context to what they know (ie the Truth is always that God is > > right). This means a seraph might set off their own resonance at times > > (ie they think that something is in the thrid house on the street, tell > > someone that, when in fact its the first house). Persisting with such a > > lie once their resonance told them it was such would incure a note of > > dissidence. > This makes it -way- too easy for a Seraph to use their Resonance as an > "everything detector". If a Seraph wants to find someone, all he has to do > is start talking aloud. "Delilah is in the US" True "Delilah is in the ... > You see where this could lead. Seraphim -can- be mistaken without > incurring Dissonance. If he says (and almost no Seraph would EVER say > something in those terms unless he -was- utterly sure (ie, could see/sense Too, the drawback to this method, even if a GM allows it, is that you only get THE TRUTH on a CD of 6... so that dreaded 666 of Infernal Intervention has just become six times more likely to show up because you have to make an average of six times as many attempts (unless you have the Perception, Essence and/or Seraph of Dominic attunement to improve the CD for each roll). Futhermore, there is the problem of possible failed resonance rolls - see page 56 and 57 in the core book - and also the (non-canon?) possibility that perceiving the Truth may be difficult or impossible if a Superior is closely involved in the Answer. Oh, and I'm not sure whether one can resonate per question? The game mechanics (in the core rules, p.94, I don't have the APG) seem to suggest that once you resonate, that's the CD you've got for the next 10-CD minutes; unless you're really good or have plenty of Essence, it could end up taking a looong time to get the Answer (and the higher the CD, the less time you have to ask the questions you want). Though I'm not sure I'd mind a PC wanting to 'listen more closely' by rolling their resonance again - after all, they could roll a worse result, too. Hrm, what else. Oh, yes! What if the angel already wants the answer to be something in particular - just a little too much... Shane. PC: "Is that man the terrorist planning to assassinate the senator?" (rolls 666) GM: "Yep, you're sure that's him!" (actually, that's the senator...) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:58:41 -0400 From: Frank Lazar Subject: IN> Hearts of Dream At 1:11 AM -0400 7/2/99, Eddie wrote: >I would say categorically yes, after all Blandine has enough of them in the >Marches. Remember her Cathedral is in the Ethereal plane > Actually her Cathedral is said to bridge Heaven and her side of the Marches. So the Hearts of Dream's servitors might be said to reside in the celestial manifestation of her Tower. Or since the entire Tower itself is one huge Tether, I imagine that all of it might count equally as celestial and ethereal so that Hearts can be placed anywhere within. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | _ | | We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. /_\ | | We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, // \\ | | Crystal and scanner, holographic demons, \\ //___\\ | | And invocations of equations. \\ // \\ | | \\__// \\ | | These are the tools we employ. And we know... many things. \\ | | \\ | | | | \\ | - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:13:27 EDT From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Hearts In a message dated 7/2/99 1:17:10 AM, EDDIE42Z@prodigy.net writes: >New question: since you say according to IN 137 & 185 hearts can't be >removed from Heaven. What does Blandine do when she wants to create a new >Angel? Swim upstream to the Celestial like a salmon? So she can lay the >Heart egg in some special spawning ground. So where does she keep the >hearts of her Angels then? Also then where is her heart mmmm? I would >think that an Archangel would have possession of their own hearts. Umm... I think you're misreading the description. Blandine's Tower, where she keeps all her servitor's hearts, is in Heaven. It may be on the boundary between Heaven and the Vale portion of the Marches, but only it's entrance is in the Marches. Don't be confused by the fact that you can see her tower from the Marches; you can also see Gabriel's Volcano from the Marches. Actually, I'm not sure that Archangels *have* Hearts, but If they did, they might be in the Higher Heavens (as another person has pointed out...). Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 12:02:01 -0400 From: "Eddie" Subject: IN> Roles A friend in my gaming group disagrees that Angels can have Roles as Prostitutes or anything like that. She says that would actually lead people to fall and doesn't see the purpose of such roles. Please give your opinions on the subject not what In Nomine Canon states. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 18:06:19 +0200 From: cd skogsberg Subject: IN> Archangel's Hearts (Was: Re: IN> Hearts) MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: > Actually, I'm not sure that Archangels *have* Hearts, but If they did, they > might be in the Higher Heavens (as another person has pointed out...). Someone here suggested, a while ago, that the Archangels' Cathedrals are their hearts - not entirely in-canon as, for instance, Lucifer's Cathedral didn't exactly shatter as he Fell (it merely cracked a little), and Oannes' Grotto didn't cave in when he died (as I recall he did - not sure though). /cd, with a deterministic .sig today - -- "If there is no freedom, then even though the murderer or rapist has no choice but to commit their crimes, we equally have no choice but to shoot the bastards for it." -- Alistair J. R. Young ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 11:51:53 -0500 From: Seth Buntain Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fighting in Inomine At 1:11 PM -0500 6/29/99, Eeyore wrote: >The problem here is that *no* RPG accurately simulates combat, and doing so >would most likely make for a lousier game. Have you ever seen/played a game called Phoenix Command? Its out of print right now, but most stores still have a copy languishing about. They guy went insane on modeling gun combat. He has tables for every quandrant of your body, how the far the bullet pentrates (depending on caliber and how much force it has when it hits), how quickly this results in your death, and so on. I love the game, despite its complexity. I even wrote an In Nomine version of it, just for grins. I basically took the position that most angels are tougher than humans, both absolutely and relatively. That is, they can take more damage over all, and the damage they take doesnt affect them as much. This is triply true for Malakites, who happily take punishment that would instantly send you into shock or a coma, and keep coming. The playtesting I did showed that soldiers of hell should run at the mearest hint of a Malakite. Hopefully, he will be too busy killing your slower friends to get around to you :). >J. Michael Neal In case anyone is interested, the particular modification I used was to expand on the 'health' rules, and to give Herculon effects to most angles/demons, anestelon effects to Calabites, and amphicane effects to Malakites. More details? email me :) "Feeling kind of low? Take Amphicane and GO GO GO! Its a once in a lifetime experience!" -Failed Ad Campaign, Nemisis Enterprises. - -- Seth Buntain Northwestern University enthar@nwu.edu "Magic is always the best solution, especially reliable magic." - -from the program 'fortune'. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 13:02:53 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Hearts At 7:58 PM -0700 7/1/99, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: >can Hearts be moved out of the celestial realm? No. (Though a Superior such as Eli might be able to come up with something that worked that way, it would be _only_ a Superior thing, probably unique, and an "impossibility" to hang a plot upon.) (Blandine's and Beleth's Servitors' Hearts are either created in the ethereal realm to start with, or are in the celestial section of the Towers. Or the whole of their Tether-Towers counts as both. Think ineffable and sense of wonder here.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 13:02:10 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Roles At 12:02 PM -0400 7/2/99, Eddie wrote: >A friend in my gaming group disagrees that Angels can have Roles as >Prostitutes or anything like that. She says that would actually lead people >to fall and doesn't see the purpose of such roles. Please give your >opinions on the subject not what In Nomine Canon states. Well, it all depends on if you're using real prositution as it exists today, in the US, or if you're using "Pretty Woman" prostitution, where the rich guy winds up falling in love with his hired lass, and vice versa. Or if you're using real prostitution and figuring that an angel would be able to transcend it and make the concept of their job not the Lust-concept of "friction for pay" but "the sharing of joy" -- rather like the Lady Sally's place in the Spider Robinson novels. For instance, an angel-prostitute could get picked up by someone, use resonance cunningly to discover why he was picking up prostitutes instead of forming a mutually caring relationship, and try to change his attitudes by being a "favorite girl" and then steering him into less selfish mindsets. (Or, if Malakite, simply take the guy off into an alley and smite him a little.) Also, an angel might have that Role to keep an eye on an area -- they don't need to eat or do drugs, so they might stand on a street corner, flirt occasionally, always jack the price up too high, and gossip with the people around them. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 12:57:04 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth At 1:20 AM -0700 7/2/99, Steel Angel wrote: >SdshowTim@aol.com wrote: > >> This is a lot like my opinion of Fate's Balseraph taking the seraph resonance. >> A Seraph picks up on what is true at the moment and what is true in context >> to what they know (ie the Truth is always that God is right). This means a >> seraph might set off their own resonance at times (ie they think that >> something is in the thrid house on the street, tell someone that, when in >> fact its the first house). Persisting with such a lie once their resonance >> told them it was such would incure a note of dissidence. > > This makes it -way- too easy for a Seraph to use their Resonance as an >"everything detector". If a Seraph wants to find someone, all he has to do is >start talking aloud. #1: they have to use their resonance upon themselves (a deliberate action), and get a CD of at least 5. #2: If your Seraphim abuse this, then make them take dissonance if they say something they're not sure of. #2a: If that's a little harsh, make them take dissonance if they say something they're not sure of, and it self-resonates as false. Don't mess with the Symphony -- you're a creature of Truth. You sense when the pure themes of Truth in the Symphony have been jangled with a lie in your presence. If you are deliberately risking that jangle, stating soemthing as fact when you don't _KNOW_ it is fact, then you are acting contrary to your nature in fundamental ways. #3: If those are all unacceptable, then Seraphim simply can't self- resonate (the blare of their "I believe this," or "I hypothize this" as it would be heard in celestial speech simply drowns out anything else. They are allowed to believe, and be mistaken, or to postulate theories which may be wrong.) End of problem. Also, to keep this from happening with other beings playing the "everything detector," ruthlessly enforce the concept of "If you don't know, and don't even suspect, then the only Truth a CD 6 can wring out of the Symphony is, 'I don't know.'" So, in the previous example, the Truth bottoms out as, "It is True that you/this person does not know where Delilah is, and is hoping to get lucky by asking a Seraph." Also, the closer you get to a Superior's motivations, the fuzzier the Truth gets. Example: Lilim under interrogation: "Lilith told me to get a hook on this guy. I don't know why." Seraph of Judgment: "The TRUTH is that you were told to get a hook on this man, and five other people, and full Geases if you could. You believe that it is because they have spectacular fates and destinies, but the TRUTH is... You don't know. And I can't pluck out the Truth of what Lilith actually believes." Lilim: "You guys are intensely annoying." Seraph: "Sometimes." [It's not written canon yet, but by all the stars, it's _going_ to be. ] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 12:00:59 -0500 From: Seth Buntain Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fighting in Inomine At 11:24 AM -0500 6/29/99, Kevin Walsh wrote: >Ah, but then you're likely to get instant kills with firearms, which isn't >terribly realistic. It really depends on what hits you and how often. Trench warefare and the discovery that most humans will survive 3-4 shots with a 9mm lead to the introduction of the 'man-stopper' .45cal round. Police undercover agents are told that they should just run and take the 2 or 3 rounds that are likely to hit them. If their backup does what it should, they will be in a hospital and fine before they have a chance to bleed out or go shocky. This assumes pistol ammunition. Rifle rounds tend to go right through you, doing little 'bloom' damage, but much more likely to perforate a critical organ or two on the way. Shotguns with solid slugs are almost always lethal when they hit, which is why police use them for house-to-house fights. Elite troops (Special forces and so on) are trained to take pain and not go into shock, which makes them even scarier. Discipline, training, and motivation go a long way in determining how much you can take in terms of pain or wounds and still fight. I say Malakites should get another choir ability- resist stun. Or make it a skill? That way anyone can learn it up to their corporeal forces say, and roll against it (plus corp forces) to resist the effects of stun. Make it hard to learn and/or find a teacher for. Another good skill for soldiers of god/hell... Leasons learned? Wear body armor. There is simply no substitute :). >Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- Seth Buntain Northwestern University enthar@nwu.edu "Magic is always the best solution, especially reliable magic." - -from the program 'fortune'. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 12:09:26 -0500 From: Seth Buntain Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fighting in Inomine At 8:36 PM -0500 6/28/99, Steel Angel wrote: > And I'd say the average Calabite or >Malakite (and every angel/demon of War, the Sword, or Fire) knows how to throw >a punch properly. Now this is opinion, so take it that way... I dont think Angles/Demons do a lot of punching/kicking, for the simple reason that they are immensely tough, and a punch/kick against a trained opponent is really kind of dangerous. I would think that the more aggressive round styles (like juijitsu, or tsing-huei) would be more in line with angle/demons. They teach ways to disable a limb or body part quite quickly, regardless (to a point) of how strong or tough your opponent is. And unless you are god like fast and fighting someone who isnt, most martial artists dont kick above the knee, as thats just asking the guy to grab your leg and do bad things to it. Of course, celestials have access to claws, fire, acid, and other fun stuff, so its not necessarily true that they would learn classical martial art (open hand) styles. I mean, the Calbite of War with the Numinus Corups: Claws, Feet, Tail, Tounge, and Teeth probobly doesnt need to know how to punch all that well. :) (How many attacks is that, without using his superiors ability? 3 or 4, one based on dex... ick.) >- Abracax: Shedite of Riots - -- Seth Buntain Northwestern University enthar@nwu.edu "Magic is always the best solution, especially reliable magic." - -from the program 'fortune'. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 13:23:11 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fighting in Inomine On Fri, 2 Jul 1999, Seth Buntain wrote: > I say Malakites should get another choir ability- resist stun. Or make it > a skill? That way anyone can learn it up to their corporeal forces say, > and roll against it (plus corp forces) to resist the effects of stun. Make > it hard to learn and/or find a teacher for. Another good skill for > soldiers of god/hell... Well, I just ignore stun for vessels anyway. But it sounds like a good skill for Soldiers. Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit my web page: Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto Currently dedicated to In Nomine, Planescape, and Waste World - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 18:46:24 +0100 From: Hilary Sklar Subject: Re: IN> Roles >A friend in my gaming group disagrees that Angels can have Roles as >Prostitutes or anything like that. She says that would actually lead people >to fall and doesn't see the purpose of such roles. Please give your >opinions on the subject not what In Nomine Canon states. Having recourse to a prostitute would only cause a being to fall if having recourse to a prostitute were defined as a selfish act. If your friend defines it that way, then (s)he is correct. However, I don't think most of us =would= define it that way. Through the ages (and cultures) the oldest profession has provided man with solace and counselling (and not only on sexual matters). Remember that most of humanity lives/has lived in society where arranged marriage is the norm. Depending on the dominant culture of the world where the game is set, a prostitute could be a very useful role for an angel. They might well be able to save a number of humans from damnation, or talk a dictator out of some horrendous act that would affect thousands. - - Regards Hilary hilary.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 14:02:44 +0000 From: Uncle Wolf Subject: Re: IN> Roles > >Eddie wrote: > >A friend in my gaming group disagrees that Angels can have Roles as > >Prostitutes or anything like that. She says that would actually lead people > >to fall and doesn't see the purpose of such roles. Please give your > >opinions on the subject not what In Nomine Canon states. > And ArchBeth replied: > Well, it all depends on if you're using real prositution as it exists > today, in the US, or if you're using "Pretty Woman" prostitution, where > the rich guy winds up falling in love with his hired lass, and vice > versa. Or if you're using real prostitution and figuring that an angel > would be able to transcend it and make the concept of their job not > the Lust-concept of "friction for pay" but "the sharing of joy" -- rather > like the Lady Sally's place in the Spider Robinson novels. > > For instance, an angel-prostitute could get picked up by someone, use > resonance cunningly to discover why he was picking up prostitutes instead > of forming a mutually caring relationship, and try to change his attitudes > by being a "favorite girl" and then steering him into less selfish > mindsets. (Or, if Malakite, simply take the guy off into an alley and > smite him a little.) My turn now: There is also the concept of HPF, that I have run into on ...errr, uh... certain graphically oriented newsgroups. HPF stands for Happy People uhhh... doing what HPs do together to stay happy, yeah that's it! [Glad I have smoke and not heat detectors in the house, or the blush of my face would be setting them off!] And, as someone has pointed out elsewhere on this thread, being a "bought woman" isn't always considered to be a disgrace, personally or professionally. Geishas, as I understand the matter, while not being in a class with captains of industry, have a certain acceptability of their own, and as often as not, serve [very much the operative word here] as advisers, counselors, and just plain old comfortable women, women that men don't have to put on a false or bravado front for, with whom one can just _be_, without having to be anything or anyone in particular -- husband, father, the boss, a loyal companyman, etc... Still, I doubt that there are too many Michaeline or Laurencian angels with these roles. But I could easily envision an Elite, Novalian, Yvesian, Mercurian, or Kyriotate in these roles though. Imagine the sheer variety of experiences and tastes to be sampled in a cathouse... 0:-} Just my 2% of a dollar. Happy holidays to all, Tom Timberlake, cadre Cherub of Heaven - -- "Not a dog... Not a wolf... All he knows is what he is _not_ ... If only he could see what he _is_." -Boris, "Balto" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 16:23:41 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth In a message dated 7/2/99 3:21:28 AM Central Daylight Time, steelangel@cruzers.com writes: << This makes it -way- too easy for a Seraph to use their Resonance as an "everything detector". If a Seraph wants to find someone, all he has to do is start talking aloud. "Delilah is in the US" True "Delilah is in the Western US" True "Delilah is in the northwest" False "Delilah is in the southwestt" True "Delilah is in " (do it until he gets) True "Delilah is in the north part of " True "Delilah is in a small town" False "Delilah is in a big city" True "Delilah is in " True This makes it about nine steps or so to find someone whose general location you know. The same applies to anyone's nature. "Someone in this room is a demon" True "The demon is sitting down" False >> This in my opinion would be riding the edge of dissonance. The second the angels definitively said something it was not sure of i.e. "Delilah is in the Northwest" and it turned out to be false.... well, the Seraph shouldn't have been boldly proclaiming things that might not have been True. That's playing games with the Truth. I'd let them do it, but I'll bet the first time the Symphony tells them "False! You just lied!" they'd quit. :) Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 16:25:48 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth In a message dated 7/2/99 6:14:48 AM Central Daylight Time, sabriel@bigfoot.com writes: << unless you're really good or have plenty of Essence, it could end up taking a looong time to get the Answer >> Waitagoshdarnminute! I thought resonances didn't cost Essence! Brian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 16:32:59 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Roles In a message dated 7/2/99 10:58:55 AM Central Daylight Time, EDDIE42Z@prodigy.net writes: << A friend in my gaming group disagrees that Angels can have Roles as Prostitutes or anything like that. She says that would actually lead people to fall and doesn't see the purpose of such roles. Please give your opinions on the subject not what In Nomine Canon states. >> I could maybe see a creationist doing it. Or an outcast. Bear in mind that they're not actually "leading" people. These people are seeking out prostitutes anyway. And a prostitute makes a good confessional. Someone to talk to. And maybe they could help the poor soul, so that he no longer feels he has to buy affection. It's a thought. Also bear in mind that some of the more militant Archangels, such as Michael, David or Laurence, might not care as much about individual souls. They might give an angel such a Role in order to, say, infiltrate a group of Andre's demons. Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 17:50:29 EDT From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth In a message dated 7/2/99 1:28:21 PM, BillionSix@AOL.COM writes: >In a message dated 7/2/99 6:14:48 AM Central Daylight Time, >sabriel@bigfoot.com writes: > ><< unless you're really good or have plenty of Essence, it could > end up taking a looong time to get the Answer >> > >Waitagoshdarnminute! >I thought resonances didn't cost Essence! >Brian > > They don't, but like any other roll, you can spend Essence to increase your check die or your target number (or both, if you've got that much essence to burn...). Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 16:58:12 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth - - Dennis H. Groome V "Amo Nympham" nallix@bellsouth.net ICQ: 11430261 "I think I woke up screaming 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -"ACF", Stabbing Westward - -----Original Message----- From: Steel Angel To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Friday, July 02, 1999 3:26 AM Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth > > >Unless, of course, you meant BALseraph in that example. If that's the case, I'd >say a Balseraph of Fate would have to be insane to take the Seraph Resonance, >since the Dissonance condition cripplies his Band Resonance. > but would it really? it says in the IPG that a Balseraph believes what he says is true, and inflicts his personal symphony on others. it is true until he changes his mind and makes something else true...perhaps then he would take dissonance for believing something to be false. here's another question: could a Balseraph convince a seraph that something he says is true is false and would the seraph take dissonance? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 17:12:56 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fighting in Inomine are there any rules and stats for body armor in IN? I had a player who's Gamester was a corrupt cop and he wanted to snag some body armor from supply and use it when the Malakites were coming to town. - - Dennis H. Groome V "Amo Nympham" nallix@bellsouth.net ICQ: 11430261 "I think I woke up screaming 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -"ACF", Stabbing Westward ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 17:22:27 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth they don't necessarily do, but you can spend essence to raise the target number. raise it over 12 and it's an automatic success, every number over 12 adds to the check digit. spend enough essence and you can get an auto-success with a 6+ check digit. - - Dennis H. Groome V "Amo Nympham" nallix@bellsouth.net ICQ: 11430261 "I think I woke up screaming 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -"ACF", Stabbing Westward - -----Original Message----- From: BillionSix@aol.com To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Friday, July 02, 1999 3:31 PM Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth >In a message dated 7/2/99 6:14:48 AM Central Daylight Time, >sabriel@bigfoot.com writes: > ><< unless you're really good or have plenty of Essence, it could > end up taking a looong time to get the Answer >> > >Waitagoshdarnminute! >I thought resonances didn't cost Essence! >Brian > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 19:04:42 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fighting in Inomine At 5:12 PM -0500 7/2/99, Amo Nympham wrote: >are there any rules and stats for body armor in IN? I had a player who's >Gamester was a corrupt cop and he wanted to snag some body armor from supply >and use it when the Malakim were coming to town. p. 65. Little box in the lower right corner of the page. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 19:06:56 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth At 5:50 PM -0400 7/2/99, MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 7/2/99 1:28:21 PM, BillionSix@AOL.COM writes: >>I thought resonances didn't cost Essence! >They don't, but like any other roll, you can spend Essence to increase your >check die or your target number (or both, if you've got that much essence to >burn...). Just the target number. If you improve the target number over 12, any additional is spent on the CD. (At least, that's all _I_ can find about that..) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 19:08:57 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth At 4:58 PM -0500 7/2/99, Amo Nympham wrote: >here's another >question: could a Balseraph convince a seraph that something he says is >true is false and would the seraph take dissonance? Yes, and no. However, Seraphim add their Celestial Forces to their Will to _resist_ a Balseraph's resonance. The way I play it, too, if their CelForces bonus pushes the check digit higher, that any _modified_ CD of 6+ will hit the Bal with dissonance. It only seemed fair, considering that Habbalah walk all over most Elohim... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1273 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.