From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Jul 5 01:46:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA23300 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 01:46:53 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id BAA16642 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 01:42:45 -0500 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 01:42:45 -0500 Message-Id: <199907050642.BAA16642@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1275 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, July 5 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1275 In this digest: IN> Uriel? IN> Geisha Roles Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth IN> Thor and Loki IN> food for thought Re: IN> food for thought Re: IN> Thor and Loki IN> Historical Questions Re: IN> Historical Questions Re: IN> Historical Questions Re: IN> Historical Questions Re: IN> Historical Questions Re: IN> Historical Questions IN> Make Money On The Internet !! HERE'S HOW !!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 00:11:31 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Uriel? >>>Possibly the head of the author who will strip to the waist and start frothing if anyone else hints they want to write Uriel someday... O:><<< No, no, I don't have an exhibitionist impulse when I froth. I just start playing with sharp objects... However, I believe you're correct that it hasn't actually been stated in any published books yet. But barring the Line Editor or Steve Jackson suddenly deciding there's a compelling reason to change things, Uriel was a Seraph before s/he became a Malakite. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 00:11:33 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Geisha Roles >>>Okay, just -have- to clear this up. Geishas, as defined, DO NOT HAVE SEX. Having sex actually means you get kicked out of the group. I think you're thinking more of a 'Courtesan'. This is just a pet peeve cultural thing of mine. Geishas never have sex in order to preserve much of their mystique. A Geisha can talk, play music, give shiatsu, but will not have sex with you.<<< Actually, that's not *quite* true. A geisha is not a prostitute, and you don't proposition one to have sex with you, that is true. However, men who establish a relationship with a geisha -- by becoming one of her favorite customers, spending a lot of time with her (and a LOT of money) -- can eventually work their way up to sleeping with them. This isn't exactly forbidden, but it's a long, gradual, discrete process, establishing a relationship which either one of them can terminate at any time. The geisha winds up in a shadowy nether-zone somewhere between mistress and girlfriend. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 15:28:33 +1000 From: "Shane" Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth On 2 Jul 99, at 12:57, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 1:20 AM -0700 7/2/99, Steel Angel wrote: > >SdshowTim@aol.com wrote: > >> This is a lot like my opinion of Fate's Balseraph taking the seraph > >> resonance. A Seraph picks up on what is true at the moment and what is > >> true in context to what they know (ie the Truth is always that God is > >> right). This means a seraph might set off their own resonance at times > >> (ie they think that something is in the thrid house on the street, tell > >> someone that, when in fact its the first house). Persisting with such > >> a lie once their resonance told them it was such would incure a note of > >> dissidence. > > This makes it -way- too easy for a Seraph to use their Resonance as > > an > >"everything detector". If a Seraph wants to find someone, all he has to > >do is start talking aloud. > Don't mess with the Symphony -- you're a creature of Truth. You sense when > the pure themes of Truth in the Symphony have been jangled with a lie in > your presence. If you are deliberately risking that jangle, stating > soemthing as fact when you don't _KNOW_ it is fact, then you are acting > contrary to your nature in fundamental ways. I've realised something else, too. When is a statement not a statement? When it's a question. The Seraph may be speaking with full stops at the end of its sentences, trying to be an everything detector, but it's still actually asking questions, not "relates a fact or expresses an opinion". So not only are they risking dissonance, it won't even work! > Also, to keep this from happening with other beings playing the > "everything detector," ruthlessly enforce the concept of "If you don't > know, and don't even suspect, then the only Truth a CD 6 can wring out of > the Symphony is, 'I don't know.'" So, in the previous example, the Truth > bottoms out as, "It is True that you/this person does not know where > Delilah is, and is hoping to get lucky by asking a Seraph." Heh. Hmm. Something like "If the target of a Seraph's resonance has no personal involvement in or knowledge of the Truth sought, or if a Superior's personal Truths would be revealed, the resonance's check digit can never be higher than 5. Further, resonating on a Superior is only as successful as the Superior allows it to be." ? Shane. "The Truth is out there, Dana!" -- seriously wondering if Mulder got his Forces mixed with a Seraph at some point. Now there's a weird Vapulan experiment for you. (shudder) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 02:52:16 EDT From: SdshowTim@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and the truth Spin off thought, if a Balseraph picking up the Truth with their band attunement has it comes up on the side of Lucifer is right then that either means that Lucifer is rigtht, that their is no Truth, or that Kronos's granting of a resonance to his Balseraphs is a corrupted copy of an angelic resonance and therefor wouldn't conflict with his Balseraph's band nature too much because Kronos is granting his version of an angelic ability not an actual angelic ability. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 23:04:37 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: IN> Thor and Loki I was reading No Dinero and I noticed that neither Thor nor Loki have vessels. is this a typo? Do all Ethereals manifest without vessels? if so, how do I calculate their body hits? perhaps some errata for this? - - Dennis H. Groome V "Amo Nympham" nallix@bellsouth.net ICQ: 11430261 "I think I woke up screaming 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -"ACF", Stabbing Westward ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 10:44:40 -0400 From: "Eddie" Subject: IN> food for thought I was at a web page where the person wrote "Lilith is in Hell but in the Marches. She exercised her Word of freedom a long time ago." I know its not Canon but what do you think? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 10:54:37 -0400 From: "Eddie" Subject: Re: IN> food for thought sorry for the typo It should read "Lilith is not in Hell.... - ----- Original Message ----- From: Eddie To: Sent: Sunday, July 04, 1999 10:44 AM Subject: IN> food for thought > I was at a web page where the person wrote "Lilith is in Hell but in the > Marches. She exercised her Word of freedom a long time ago." I know its > not Canon but what do you think? > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 11:54:20 -0400 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Thor and Loki At 11:04 PM 7/3/99 -0500, you wrote: >I was reading No Dinero and I noticed that neither Thor nor Loki have >vessels. is this a typo? Do all Ethereals manifest without vessels? if >so, how do I calculate their body hits? perhaps some errata for this? In _The Marches_, pp. 110-111, we're told that Ethereals generate vessels roughly as do celestials in Limbo. There are no straight-out rules for hit calculation, so I'd assume that it's the same as for a celestial: (Vessel + Corp Forces) * Strength. (I think that's right. I just woke up. :) There should probably be an erratum for No Dinero, though. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 20:47:56 +0100 From: Hilary Sklar Subject: IN> Historical Questions I'm currently writing a scenario convention set in 1492 (in Spain). Clearly some Superior functions will have to be changed somewhat (I can hardly have an Elohite of Jean creating a palmtop computer and it wouldn't do him much good if he tried to get information from the net) and I'm not having much problem with that. I think canon is quite clear about the Archangelic situation at the time. However, I can't find a date for when Haagenti was promoted. Who was Demon Prince of gluttony in 1492? And what about Vapula? Was he around? The PC's superiors will be Laurence, Khalid, Yves, Marc, Jean and Dominic. I am very clear about the agendas held by those particular Archangels. What I'm interested in is people's ideas about the political situation in Hell at that time. I'm pretty clear about Asmodeus's, Kronos', Baal's and Belial's interest, so the question really concerns Vapula more than anyone. And which other specific Demon Princes would have been around. In case it helps anyone focus, the main 'meat' of the scenario will concern the conquest of Granada, the expulsion of the Jews, several important books, religious tolerance of the remaining followers of Islam and the Inquisition. We may also touch upon minor matters like Christopher Columbus' ambitions..... - - Regards Hilary hilary.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 16:20:39 -0400 From: "Eddie" Subject: Re: IN> Historical Questions Hilary Of course Vapula was around, technology was around long before the late 1400's as to the other's I'm not sure. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Hilary Sklar To: Sent: Sunday, July 04, 1999 3:47 PM Subject: IN> Historical Questions > I'm currently writing a scenario convention set in 1492 (in Spain). > Clearly some Superior functions will have to be changed somewhat (I can > hardly have an Elohite of Jean creating a palmtop computer and it wouldn't > do him much good if he tried to get information from the net) and I'm not > having much problem with that. > > I think canon is quite clear about the Archangelic situation at the time. > However, I can't find a date for when Haagenti was promoted. Who was Demon > Prince of gluttony in 1492? And what about Vapula? Was he around? > > The PC's superiors will be Laurence, Khalid, Yves, Marc, Jean and Dominic. > I am very clear about the agendas held by those particular Archangels. > What I'm interested in is people's ideas about the political situation in > Hell at that time. I'm pretty clear about Asmodeus's, Kronos', Baal's and > Belial's interest, so the question really concerns Vapula more than anyone. > And which other specific Demon Princes would have been around. > > In case it helps anyone focus, the main 'meat' of the scenario will concern > the conquest of Granada, the expulsion of the Jews, several important > books, religious tolerance of the remaining followers of Islam and the > Inquisition. We may also touch upon minor matters like Christopher > Columbus' ambitions..... > - Regards > > Hilary > hilary.omentide@virgin.net > http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 21:43:30 +0100 (BST) From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: Re: IN> Historical Questions >I'm currently writing a scenario convention set in 1492 (in Spain). Permit me to admire. This sounds extremely cool. >I think canon is quite clear about the Archangelic situation at the time. >However, I can't find a date for when Haagenti was promoted. Who was Demon >Prince of gluttony in 1492? And what about Vapula? Was he around? Yes, Haagenti was around by then, I think, and had been for a few hundred years. It's a fair bet that he was even more under Kobal's guidance than he is these days, however. There might theoretically be a few Servitors of Meserach and Mariel still wandering round, if that amuses you. >The PC's superiors will be Laurence, Khalid, Yves, Marc, Jean and Dominic. >I am very clear about the agendas held by those particular Archangels. >What I'm interested in is people's ideas about the political situation in >Hell at that time. I'm pretty clear about Asmodeus's, Kronos', Baal's and >Belial's interest, so the question really concerns Vapula more than anyone. > And which other specific Demon Princes would have been around. >In case it helps anyone focus, the main 'meat' of the scenario will concern >the conquest of Granada, the expulsion of the Jews, several important >books, religious tolerance of the remaining followers of Islam and the >Inquisition. We may also touch upon minor matters like Christopher >Columbus' ambitions..... I'm not sure about Vapula. I _think_ the Shal-Mari bloc wouldn't have been too concerned with any of the above matters, though Kobal might have got a kick out of some facets. You could possibly link Valefor to the concept of the property/belongings/birthright of the native Jews being stolen. Beleth might well have been called in by any Prince sponsoring the action to help influence major political figures through nightmares or mob hysteria. (Such delightful stories as "the Jews bake a Christian child in pastry for their Sabbath" -- I think that's called a "Blood Libel" but am not entirely sure.) Hope that's some use. - --- Genevieve Cogman maya@tcp.co.uk `Ce n'est qu'en travaillant que les ides viennent' (Sade) ("It is only through working that ideas come") ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 22:58:07 +0100 From: Hilary Sklar Subject: Re: IN> Historical Questions At 21:43 4/7/99 +0100, you wrote: >>I'm currently writing a scenario convention set in 1492 (in Spain). Whoops! I meant convention scenario. >Permit me to admire. This sounds extremely cool. > Hopefully this will run at GaelCon '99 - this is providing it gets accepted (which I have reason to believe it will). I noticed you have a UK address. GaelCon is well worth getting over to Dublin for and Dublin is always worth visiting! It's part of a bigger idea - one set to run from 1492 until the end of the world. This will be a sequence of Convention scenarios (run mostly in Ireland, maybe the UK, anywhere else that will have me provided I can afford the air fares) which might turn into a campaign or a novel and will almost certainly use other RPG systems (specifically those which allow human PCs to use non-Angleic, non-demonic magicks). I don't mind discussing this but as it's not IN, it had better be offlist or the demons of off-thread communications may start hunting me down..... The reason I asked about Vapula is that he is going to feel rather foolish if he doesn't get his fingers into this because the underlying theme of the sequence is the great Divorce between Magick and Science. Maybe it would be fun to bring him in later, feeling rather foolish..... - - Regards Hilary hilary.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 19:48:12 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> Historical Questions just something to add: time flows differently in both the Ethereal and Celestial realms...so the superiors you want could already be around and any older ones you want to bring around. I haven't seen any actual years associated with the superiors in the books I've read. - - Dennis H. Groome V "Amo Nympham" nallix@bellsouth.net ICQ: 11430261 "I think I woke up screaming 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -"ACF", Stabbing Westward - -----Original Message----- From: Hilary Sklar To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Sunday, July 04, 1999 3:02 PM Subject: IN> Historical Questions >I'm currently writing a scenario convention set in 1492 (in Spain). >Clearly some Superior functions will have to be changed somewhat (I can >hardly have an Elohite of Jean creating a palmtop computer and it wouldn't >do him much good if he tried to get information from the net) and I'm not >having much problem with that. > >I think canon is quite clear about the Archangelic situation at the time. >However, I can't find a date for when Haagenti was promoted. Who was Demon >Prince of gluttony in 1492? And what about Vapula? Was he around? > >The PC's superiors will be Laurence, Khalid, Yves, Marc, Jean and Dominic. >I am very clear about the agendas held by those particular Archangels. >What I'm interested in is people's ideas about the political situation in >Hell at that time. I'm pretty clear about Asmodeus's, Kronos', Baal's and >Belial's interest, so the question really concerns Vapula more than anyone. > And which other specific Demon Princes would have been around. > >In case it helps anyone focus, the main 'meat' of the scenario will concern >the conquest of Granada, the expulsion of the Jews, several important >books, religious tolerance of the remaining followers of Islam and the >Inquisition. We may also touch upon minor matters like Christopher >Columbus' ambitions..... >- Regards > >Hilary >hilary.omentide@virgin.net >http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 19:50:06 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> Historical Questions would you mind posting the scenario or putting it on the web after the con? it sounds really good and I'd like to see the final result. - - Dennis H. Groome V "Amo Nympham" nallix@bellsouth.net ICQ: 11430261 "I think I woke up screaming 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -"ACF", Stabbing Westward ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jul 99 00:59:50 Eastern Daylight Time From: gtps36@aol.com Subject: IN> Make Money On The Internet !! HERE'S HOW !!! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_018C_01BD9940.715D52A0 Content-Type: text/html; LOOK AT THIS!

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------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1275 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.