From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Jul 14 17:34:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA17385 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 17:34:32 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id RAA23419 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 17:23:41 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 17:23:41 -0500 Message-Id: <199907142223.RAA23419@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1283 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, July 14 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1283 In this digest: IN> My campaign. Re: IN> Fwd: H e l p please. Re: IN> My campaign. Re: IN> My campaign. Re: IN> Fwd: H e l p please. Re: IN> Fwd: H e l p please. Re: IN> My campaign. Re: IN> Fwd: H e l p please. Re: IN> Fwd: H e l p please. IN> Plot seed: The Tar Baby ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 03:05:48 -0500 From: Trent Subject: IN> My campaign. Hi again, I've been doing some thought on my campain and after diging through the INC and listening to your suggestions I've decided to try a "Search for Eli" game. More or less Dominic has convinced the Serephem Council to hold a contest for the word of Creation. The PC's will be angels asighned to a special task force created by the other archangels to get Eli to come defend his word. I think that the angels (and one free lilim) are going to be folling false leads furthering the word of creation until the time is up and the word is given out by the serephem council. Of corse Eli will appear and claim to have been minipulateing the PCs into doing more for the word of creation than any of the other applicants. So far I have a Malakim of Eli serving Michel, a Sereph of Gabriel, and a free Lilim. Also three others have yet to draw up a charactor. What I need is a few suggestions of adventures for angels to help creation i have a couple of Ideas but I'm always looking for suggestions. Also the Sereph has manages to critically wound a djinn of Baal in a short trial run today. Trent Orginize for Anarchy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 15:32:01 +0100 From: hjalkar@redbrick.dcu.ie (Kevin Walsh) Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: H e l p please. On Sat, Jul 10, 1999 at 11:19:46AM +0100, Hilary Sklar wrote: > Firstly, Dominic's word is 'Judgement' Indeed. It therefore would cover moral judgement and all other forms of reasoning. For Dominic to arbitrarily invent rules would appear to be dissonant. Judgement is an inherently good thing, quite possibly more so than justice. not 'Justice' and has very little to > do with 20th century mortal ideas of justice which involve taking > extenuating circumstances into account. > What kind of judgement is it that fails to take account of all the facts? (Of course, Michael's position as an Archangel might well have been considered an aggravating circumstance by Dominic rather than an extenuating one...) In any event, it is dissonant for Dominic to punish the innocent, as can be seen from his dissonance conditions. > Secondly, if you look at the Seraph write up in the source book you'll see > that, even there, Truth is regarded as a subjective value. Seraphim tell > the truth as =they= see it. Not being omniscient (which is a property > confined to the Symphony and/or the Big Guy who never explicitly appears in > In Nomine), it is perfectly possible for them to be truthful and erroneous > at the same time. > The fact that they don't know the whole Truth doesn't make the whole Truth subjective. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "... the expression "secret society" means an association, society, or other body the members of which are required by the regulations thereof to take or enter into, or do in fact take or enter into an oath, affirmation, declaration or agreement not to disclose the proceedings or some part of the proceedings of the association, society, or body." Offences Against the State Act, 1939, Appendix A, Section 3.2 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 16:50:11 +0100 From: Ashley Perryman Subject: Re: IN> My campaign. Trent, I think it rather depends on how you want to use the word creation and Eli's link to it. I am not going to get into what might be cannon on this issue. From my perspective (non cannon) I tend to view Eli as the Archangel of Creativity rather than creation per se which might give you a little more scope. Creation can I suppose be anything. Vapula created a computer. Andre and Nybbas are into creating a cult of personality. Hell can create, but whether this creation is for the long term good is a different matter. I guess really cool things for Angels to create might come through manipulation or inspiration of humanity. Get the mortals to create a new church, a monument to inspiration, tear down a slum and build new human freindly environment sensitive housing, etc. Inspire a philosopher to a great new insight and ensure publication. Creation can also be about protection of the natural order and preventing destruction thereof. Protect a rainforest. Ensure the food supply is free of envirnmentally unsound and potentially harmful products. Maintaining diversity, or opposing crop monoculture. You might want to look at current political issues around this sort of thing. There are all sorts of political and economic opportunities here to explore. Self determination can be part of creation. The creation of freedom and freedom from oppression. Governments often oppose this sort of thing and that would give some worty adveraries - they have guns, armies and all sorts of other stuff to struggle against. Make an underwater volcano erupt and bring forth new land. Fire can be as much about creation as destruction. Judt some ideas, hope they are of use. Ashley. War drives technology, and technology is part of creation, or at least creating which in the long term might benefit all humanity rather than simply have military applications. Ashley ashley.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 11:28:10 -0500 From: Shadowstar Subject: Re: IN> My campaign. At 4:50 PM +0100 7/14/99, Ashley Perryman wrote: >Creation can also be about protection of the natural order and preventing >destruction thereof. >Maintaining diversity, or opposing crop monoculture. Therefore, you imply that "Starbucks" is a tool of the Infernal. . . (Says he who watches Austin's diversity and uniqueness get swallowed up in the greed inspired directives of the land owners. It's getting to the point where the local coffee shoppes are nothing BUT Starbucks, because they're the only ones who can afford to locate there. The price for being able to exist, is the loss of originality and charm. That, and the "Sheeple" would rather have the same bland coffee in Austin as they can have in Seattle. . .) . . .That Doctor Evil uses it as his Headquarters is of no consequence. I'm tempted to use a "Laser," located on the "Death Star," to nuke it from orbit. All part of the "Allen Parsons' Project." Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centuryinter.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://www.best.com/~lyceum/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 19:50:52 +0100 From: Hilary Sklar Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: H e l p please. >> Firstly, Dominic's word is 'Judgement' > >Indeed. It therefore would cover moral judgement and all other forms of >reasoning. For Dominic to arbitrarily invent rules would appear to be >dissonant. Judgement is an inherently good thing, quite possibly more so >than justice.> I'm not sure. Before I committed on that one I'd like to see the French version. I'm never sure how much of the potentially ambiguous stuff in IN results from translating from French (which is a very =precise= language) to English (which is very rich, but lacks that precision). I'd tend to interpret Dominic's Word as a commitment to coming to the best possible conclusion given a) the evidence available/obtainable AND b) the rules as they EXIST. I like to interpret the rules Dominic uses as being fairly well divorced from modern human standards of justice. As 20th century humans it is likely that we will perceive many of Dominic's judgements as =unfair=. Were we Elohim we might well perceive them to be fair, given that Dominic has different standards. >>very little to >> do with 20th century mortal ideas of justice which involve taking >> extenuating circumstances into account. >> >What kind of judgement is it that fails to take account of all the facts? >(Of course, Michael's position as an Archangel might well have been >considered an aggravating circumstance by Dominic rather than an >extenuating one...) Extenuating circumstances may have factual status. The question is whether or not one regards them as relevant. Example: A man steals a loaf of bread. This is provable fact. Some human societies would regard the provable fact that he has six starving dependents as extenuating circumstances and let him off relatively lightly. Other human societies would regard that extenuating circumstance as irrelevant to the case. Many of us would regard the former position as 'fairer' because it is so, by our own moral standards. I don't think Dominic would agree with us on that one. >In any event, it is dissonant for Dominic to punish the innocent, as can >be seen from his dissonance conditions.< To work from my former example, the man remains guilty of stealing the loaf of bread, whatever his underlying motivations. He is therefore not innocent. Punishing him should not cause dissonance - however laudible his motivations for becoming guilty. The Michael/Gabriel incidents should (in my opinion) be taken as 'clues' to Dominic's moral codes. He seems to be pretty absolutist about things - applying Judgement to whether a particular action was committed by a particular person or not rather than applying Judgement to the antecedents of that action. >The fact that they don't know the whole Truth doesn't make the whole Truth >subjective.> As they are not omniscient, it has to be. If omniscience is a quality reserved for God Himself, whatever you call Him (which does seem to be in line with IN theology), a Seraph cannot know the whole truth. Discussion of whether truth =can= ever be anything other than subjective is best reserved for off-list discussion. "Truth is a value" Nietsche. - - Regards Hilary hilary.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 20:32:54 +0100 (BST) From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: H e l p please. >>> Firstly, Dominic's word is 'Judgement' >> >>Indeed. It therefore would cover moral judgement and all other forms of >>reasoning. For Dominic to arbitrarily invent rules would appear to be >>dissonant. Judgement is an inherently good thing, quite possibly more so >>than justice.> > >I'm not sure. Before I committed on that one I'd like to see the French >version. I'm never sure how much of the potentially ambiguous stuff in IN >results from translating from French (which is a very =precise= language) >to English (which is very rich, but lacks that precision). I'd tend to >interpret Dominic's Word as a commitment to coming to the best possible >conclusion given a) the evidence available/obtainable AND b) the rules as >they EXIST. I like to interpret the rules Dominic uses as being fairly >well divorced from modern human standards of justice. As 20th century >humans it is likely that we will perceive many of Dominic's judgements as >=unfair=. Were we Elohim we might well perceive them to be fair, given >that Dominic has different standards. Aha. Pardon me while I snicker. Dominique's Word (he's male, that's an acceptable male name in France) is Justice. He is the AA of Justice (as opposed to Andromalius, the Demon Prince of Judgement, who got conflated with Asmodee, the Demon Prince of Games, to produce the Asmodeus we know and love.) He's also a bitter, harsh, narrow-minded, rigid, Code-of-Napoleon (French legal system, guilty till proven innocent), double-dealing-for-the-greater-good, manipulative, blackmailing so-and-so. He works closely with Joseph, Archangel of the Inquisition, who is even more harsh than he is. INS/MV is a lot more satirical and black humor than IN/SJ. I love it. Genevieve (there's also a splendid INS/MV scenario where Dominique gets trapped in the body of a turtle by a treacherous subordinate and some sorcerers, but surely I would never inflict such a thing on my beloved Fiat PCs. Really.) - --- Genevieve Cogman maya@tcp.co.uk `Ce n'est qu'en travaillant que les ides viennent' (Sade) ("It is only through working that ideas come") ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 15:48:40 EDT From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> My campaign. In a message dated 7/14/99 9:28:24 AM, shadowstar@centuryinter.net writes: >>Maintaining diversity, or opposing crop monoculture. > > Therefore, you imply that "Starbucks" is a tool of the Infernal. . . > That's *crop* *monoculture*, not pop culture... Two different (very different) things. > (Says he who watches Austin's diversity and uniqueness get swallowed up >in the greed inspired directives of the land owners. It's getting to the >point where the local coffee shoppes are nothing BUT Starbucks, because >they're the only ones who can afford to locate there. The price for being >able to exist, is the loss of originality and charm. That, and the >"Sheeple" would rather have the same bland coffee in Austin as they can >have in Seattle. . .) > Actually, Starbucks is overroasted deliberately for a sharp flavor. If you're getting bland out of Starbucks, you're doing it wrong. Not to mention that Seattle's Best Coffee is more popular in Seattle than Starbloat's. (And the best coffee comes from a little place in Fremont, where they have their own roaster in the back...) > . . .That Doctor Evil uses it as his Headquarters is of no consequence. > > I'm tempted to use a "Laser," located on the "Death Star," to nuke it >from orbit. All part of the "Allen Parsons' Project." > >Be seeing you, > >- Tafka J. >= shadowstar@centuryinter.net ># Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur >* http://www.best.com/~lyceum/shdwstar/in-nomine > Mark (the Seattlite, who used to work next door to Starbuck's main roasters) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 20:55:39 +0100 From: Hilary Sklar Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: H e l p please. >Aha. Pardon me while I snicker. Dominique's Word (he's male, that's an >acceptable male name in France) is Justice. He is the AA of Justice (as >opposed to Andromalius, the Demon Prince of Judgement, who got conflated >with Asmodee, the Demon Prince of Games, to produce the Asmodeus we know and >love.) He's also a bitter, harsh, narrow-minded, rigid, Code-of-Napoleon >(French legal system, guilty till proven innocent), >double-dealing-for-the-greater-good, manipulative, blackmailing so-and-so. >He works closely with Joseph, Archangel of the Inquisition, who is even more >harsh than he is.< I =like= this. This is how I =wanted= Dominic to be. None of that 'he couldn't help it, he was raised in unfavourable social circumstances' stuff (which is OK in 'real life', but never seemed to me to relate to Dominic). >INS/MV is a lot more satirical and black humor than IN/SJ. I love it.< I've heard this elsewhere. I'm asking my friendly and reasonably-local games shop if they can get the French game for me and, if they can't, I guess we'll just have to brave the tunnel again... How far (from the end of the tunnel) do you think we need to drive to get it? Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 22:10:05 +0100 (BST) From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: H e l p please. >>INS/MV is a lot more satirical and black humor than IN/SJ. I love it.< > >I've heard this elsewhere. I'm asking my friendly and reasonably-local >games shop if they can get the French game for me and, if they can't, I >guess we'll just have to brave the tunnel again... How far (from the end >of the tunnel) do you think we need to drive to get it? I'm not actually sure. I _can_ give you the email address of an excellent French games shop which does email order, and which I've bought most of the INS/MV collection from (and a few others, too.) dragons@atlantel.fr Didier Escodemaison is the person I order stuff from there, and he speaks/writes English. - --- Genevieve Cogman maya@tcp.co.uk `Ce n'est qu'en travaillant que les ides viennent' (Sade) ("It is only through working that ideas come") ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 18:19:32 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: IN> Plot seed: The Tar Baby Here's a plot seed based on an unusual human NPC. It can fit into most campaigns, but would probably be particularly interesting in those where the GM is having trouble with powerful Kyrios or Shedim. Combat is certainly possible, but basically this is a puzzle scenario where good role-playing is a plus. (If this looks familiar to some of you, it's because I posted an earlier version about a year ago.) The Tar Baby "Lock the door, and throw away the key; There's someone in my head, and it's not me." -- Pink Floyd Bobbie Jean Blackburne is a moderately successful Country & Western singer. 28 years old, petite and red-headed, she is presently working on her third album. She's a long way from playing Madison Square, but she has a small cadre of fans, and could fill a small venue in most towns in America. Bobby Jean is a five-Force human, although she has added a couple of points to Agility and Precision by working out and practicing the guitar for years. 1 Corporeal Strength 2 Agility 3 1 Ethereal Intelligence 3 Precision 3 3 Celestial ( Will and Perception both variable) Bobbie Jean is more than she appears, though. She is one of those rare people who have real, honest-to-goodness MPD -- Multiple Personality Disorder. Bobbie Jean's father abused her severely as a child. This was not altogether his own doing... he hated himself and his actions, and repeatedly tried to reform, but he had the bad fortune to be a vacation home for a Shedite. When the demon got tired of corrupting CEOs to trash corporations for their personal gain, it would ooze out to the trailer park for some simple old-fashioned fun: making Harvey Blackburne break his promise not to hurt his little girl... again. Childhood abuse can produce MPD. In Bobbie Jean's case, though, childhood abuse provoked by a Shedite produced something very strange. Not only did Bobbie develop MPD, but she gradually grew several personalities specifically to deal with demons. Bobbie Jean's personalities include: Jean -- the "surface" personality, Jean is (literally) the one who gets up on stage and performs. Jean is _not_ aware of the other personalities. She knows that she has strange blackouts sometimes -- "losing time", she calls it -- but this has happened to her all her life, and she thinks it is some sort of odd but not dangerous chronic condition. Jean has Will 6, Perception 6, and is in most respects a fairly normal young woman. Her friends in the band have occasionally seen some of her other personalities, and been unnerved and alarmed, but they believe she's just "high strung". Jean isn't the "real" Bobbie Jean, btw. There _isn't_ a real Bobbie Jean... all of her personalities are equally real, and if Jean were destroyed, the others would just close ranks and carry on. Bianca -- Bianca is the sensitive and creative personality. She tends to emerge late at night, when she does most of Bobbie Jean's songwriting. She can fake being Jean for short periods of time, but doesn't like to. Bianca is a bit twittery and likes to wear black and quote poetry. She's a bit of a Goth girl, and thinks that country is for hicks. She writes the songs, though, because it pays the rent. Bianca has Will 2 and Perception 10. She also has a psychic ability that works something like a Mercurian's Resonance: sometimes she can find out things about people that she shouldn't really be able to know. Roll against her Perception and use the Mercurian check digit table, but subtract 3 from the check digit If the result is 0, nothing happens. If it is a negative number Bianca will get a creatively _wrong_ idea about someone. One thing she can do that no Mercurian can is detect celestials... at least sometimes, anyway. If a person behaves in an unusual or suspicious manner, give her a perception roll, modified as above. A (modified) positive result on the check digit will tell her that the target is not really human! This will almost always result in Karl being brought forward at once... Mrs. Pentecost -- This personality is the internalized image of Bobby Jean's mother. She is a rigid, narrow-minded religious fanatic. It's always very obvious when she takes over; Bobby Jean's whole manner changes, and she begins ranting about sin and salvation. Mrs. Pentecost hates demons... and she thinks that all celestials are demons (she believes in angels, but will not readily believe that she has met one). She will promptly accost anyone who has been identified as nonhuman by Bianca. She will make a *loud* public scene, screaming that this person is "a Demon! A foul imp of Satan, vomited up from Hell to walk the earth in human form!" She will do this regardless of whether the celestial is a demon or an angel. She won't attack physically, but _will_ encourage others to do so. If allowed to rave on for a while, Mrs. Pentecost will drop references to the Archangel Gabriel. As in, "I have seen the evil of this world! The Angel Gabriel took me up in a dream, in a flaming chariot that ascended to Heaven, and I saw the sin of this vile world squriming beneath us like loathsome serpents in the mud!" She doesn't actually have any connection to Gabriel, though. Mrs. Pentecost has Perception 3, Will 9. Baby Lamb -- Baby Lamb is the personality who handles joy. She is a sweet, happy six-year old... the child that Bobby Jean should have been. She comes forward when something really nice happens to Bobby Jean, but she never stays very long. It's pretty obvious when she is present -- Bobby Jean will be clapping her hands and giggling and saying things like "Ooh, goody! Play!" Baby Lamb has Perception 4, Will 2. She's not dangerous in any way, but the other personalities are VERY protective of her. Jolene -- Jolene handles Bobby Jean's sex life (Jean occasionally wonders why she doesn't have much success in that department...). She's exaggeratedly vampy and very much a love 'em and leave 'em sort. Jolene comes forward when Bobby Jean is aroused, or sometimes when Karl is distracted. When Bobby Jean suddenly starts speaking in a husky murmur and freshening her lipstick, Jolene has arrived. Perception 4, Will 4. Give Jolene a Will check to come forward when Bobby meets a good-looking stranger (of either gender; Jolene's not picky). If she succeeds, she'll try to get that person alone and... well, 'seduce' is probably not strong enough. Jolene only sticks around for (hours x check die) at a time, so the recipient of her attention will find that bliss is fleeting. Jolene will leave before one of the other personalities takes over; Bobby Jean will *not* know what has happened, and will probably become quite upset if pressed about it. Buddy -- Bianca writes lyrics; Buddy handles music. He's Bobby Jean's inner rock & roller. He's not actually that fond of country, and wishes the group would shift to a cooler sound. He's the only personality who smokes (though Curtis does other sorts of drugs). Buddy is a bit of a weasel, and is the only personality that might actually betray the others if he could somehow be offered the chance to have things _his_ way. In fact, if Bobby Jean ends up making a deal with either side, watch for Buddy to make at least an offer to the others. For all his faults, Buddy really is a great musician. Bobby has a lovely voice, but she's no more than an adequate guitar player. When she suddenly stops singing and goes into a *really* good guitar solo, Buddy has stepped forward for a bit. If Bobby Jean is approached while Buddy is running things, she will display male mannerisms and a rather whiny New York accent. Buddy has Will 3, Perception 5. He also seems to have a higher Intelligence than the other personalities. When a really clever, cunning plan is needed, it's Buddy who's likely to come up with it. Curtis -- Curtis exists to handle Bobby Jean's negative emotions, especially anger and despair. Cross a biker with a grunge rocker having a _really bad_ day, and you'll have Curtis. Curtis shows up when bad things happen to Bobby Jean. He tends to wobble between apathetic misery and bursts of dangerous rage. You'll know Curtis is around when Bobby starts drinking heavily -- something cheap and nasty, usually. Curtis will also do drugs, any sort of drugs, if they're available. Curtis also has a masochistic streak. Karl wouldn't let him seriously hurt Bobby Jean, but sometimes Karl sleeps -- and Curtis has a knack for getting into dangerous situations. When Curtis is running things, Bobby Jean will become unpleasant -- unresponsive, or sarcastic, or threatening if she's bothered at all. She'll probably go looking for a drink or some drugs, then either for a dark alley, a fast car, or a fight. Curtis has Will 6, Perception 2. Ramona -- Ramona is probably the least interesting of Bobbie Jean's personalities. She deals with money and with chores, and balances Jean's checkbook every month. Ramona seems to be neuter and has never shown any sort of emotion... think Mr. Spock with an accounting degree. But she's a very, very good negotiator, and will come forward if Bobby Jean needs to strike a bargain (for instance, if Karl is holding a celestial hostage). She has Perception 4, Will 8. Ramona's presence is always obvious -- the dull monotone voice alone is a dead giveaway... And then there is Karl. Karl -- Karl is the guardian and the gatekeeper for the other personalities. He usually controls who gets to "come forward" at any time, though he rarely comes forward himself unless he perceives a threat. He is almost always awake and watching over Bobby Jean's shoulder. He can put off sleep simply by making a Will roll twice per day. Once in a while he misses and then sleeps for hours equal to the check digit. At these times, other personalities -- especially Jolene and Buddy - -- are likely to have a contest of Wills to see who can come forward until Karl wakes up). Karl is one tough b*stard. He is a monomaniac, with Perception 1 but a steely-hard will of 11. Karl exists only to defend and protect the others, and he is quite willing to kill to do it. Karl is very dangerous to Celestials. Any Shedite or Kyriotate who tries to enter Bobby Jean will meet him, and will probably regret it... If a celestial tries to possess Bobby Jean, roll a contest of Wills. If there is no winner, then the would-be posessor is *violently* bounced away from Bobby Jean, and will be stunned for a number of minutes equal to Karl's check die. The celestial will only know that "something very strange just happened". He may think that someone else is already possessing this woman -- which, in a way, is correct. Karl will be able to identify the possessor, and may take the opportunity to attack him while he is stunned. If the celestial manages to win, Karl will retreat into Bobby Jean's psyche and push one of the other personalities up to be possessed. This may cause some confusion to the possessing celestial! ("This woman has the mind of a six year old? Wha...?") In any event, Karl can make an attack to expel the celestial after a number of hours equal to the possessor's check die have passed (though he may wait a little while until the celestial is distracted). If the possessor _loses_ the contest of Wills, he is in serious trouble. Bobby Jean's mutant mind snaps shut around him like a bear trap, the various personalities sliding into place to pin him down. He is now stuck inside her mind... the possesor possessed, reduced to the status of another personality! It gets worse. The celestial will be completely helpless; he can communicate only with Karl, and Karl will probably not be interested in anything the captive has to say. And every day he stays stuck, he will take Mind hits equal to Karl's check digit, as Bobbie Jean's mind struggles to *digest* him. The process is excruciatingly unpleasant, and if he doesn't escape before all his hits are gone, he dies permanently... though some of his memories might survive to form a new personality in Bobbie Jean's cerebral menagerie. Karl can use Bianca to try to get information about the captured celestial's identity and abilities. He can also try to force the captive to use Songs and skills! Roll a contest of Wills; Karl must win. If he does, he has access to _one_ of the captive's Songs, skills, resonances or attunements for minutes equal to his check die (when actually using the Song or whatever, remember to roll against the _captive's_ attributes... he's being psychically arm-twisted into cooperating with Karl). If Karl wants to use a second Song or whatever, he must make another roll. Note that Karl doesn't give a damn about causing his captive Dissonance (say, by using a Mercurian's Song of Thunder to kill a human). Whether actions taken by a celestial under psychic duress should cause Dissonance, or not, is left to the GM's discretion. The only ways to get a captive loose are: 1) Convince Karl to let him go. This one won't be easy. Trying to possess Bobby Jean was a threat, and Karl doesn't react well to threats. 2) Convince at least three of the personalities to make Karl let go. 3) Stun or incapacite Karl for at least an hour. This means _Karl_. Knocking Bobby Jean unconscious is no good unless Karl is in charge when she goes under. 4) Kill Bobby Jean. The GM should point out that this might result in the death of the trapped celestial as well. Actually, it won't, but it will cause a point of Dissonance _and_ Trauma. And there are some very good reasons not to want to kill Bobby Jean... Oh, yes -- Karl also will surge to the fore to bounce Habbalite attacks. And even if he fails to do so, he'll just shunt the emotion to another one of the personalities. Curtis or Jolene may be consumed by terror or despair, but Karl will just keep coming. Karl is the only personality with weapons skills -- Fighting-3, Small Weapon-2, and Ranged Weapon-2. He also has a .45, hidden where Jean can't find it. He'll use the gun if he thinks he can get away with it. Karl also has the power to imbue Bobby Jean with hysterical strength and speed. On a successful Will roll, Karl can increase Bobby Jean's Strength and Agility to 8 and 6, respectively, for minutes equal to the check die. He can only do this once per day, he has to be running things to do it, and it leaves Bobby Jean exhausted afterwards. When Karl comes forward, Bobby Jean's manner changes drastically. Her voice deepens and roughens and a faint German accent appears. Overall she comes across as a very grim, menacing older man in a young woman's body. Note that Karl's control is not total. Two or three other personalities, working together, can shove him aside. This rarely happens, though; the personalities are too different to cooperate easily, and also they trust Karl (though some, like Buddy, may dislike him). Daddy -- Daddy is the one personality who is _never_ allowed to come forward. All the others are terrified of him. Nobody is sure what will happen if Daddy is ever allowed out... and nobody, not even Buddy, wants to risk it. It's possible that Daddy may be the indigestible remains of the Shedite who helped create Bobby Jean, compressed into the internalized image of her father. If so, he could be very dangerous indeed; remember Legion... OTOH, he might be a consensual illusion held by the others -- a big internal bogeyman. In that case, exposing him might be the key to curing Bobbie Jean. Or he might just be another personality... a *really* nasty one. GM's discretion. Other notes on Bobby Jean: if Celestials use Songs or Resonances, keep in mind that they only affect the personality who is on deck at that moment. So a Mercurian might make a good roll and find out all about Jean's relationships, but this will be of little use in dealing with Karl. Ditto for the resonances of Elohim, Malakim, Impudites, etc. A Seraph might be nonplussed to find Bobby Jean making wildly contradictory statements that all register as "true" (i.e., Jean says "I really like Tori Amos," then five minutes later Buddy says "Tori Amos is utter garbage.") A Balseraph can only make one personality believe his lies at a time (though perhaps, with repeated uses of resonance, he might eventually convince most of them). This may lead to some interesting situations... say, a Balseraph convincing Jean that "I'm your trusted friend," only to have Jolene come forward and say, "Friend? You're an ugly little weasel. Get away from me." This doesn't cause dissonance, but it might seriously unnerve the demon. Bobby Jean always has an active dreamscape! At least one of the personalities is always asleep... Basic adventure seed: a Kyriotate or a Shedim has gone missing. At his last sighting, he was headed for Bobby Jean's show to take in some good country music. The PCs are sent to investigate. The missing Celestial is there. He got a little carried away by the band, and decided to possess the lead singer for a bit... It shouldn't be too hard to attract the PCs' attention to the red-headed lead singer. Jolene or one of the other personalities can briefly emerge on a break; give the PCs Perception rolls to notice something odd - - -- a change in voice or mannerisms, a statement contradicting something she said just a few minutes ago. Or even a change in drinking habits -- Jean drinks beer, Bianca likes white wine, Jolene is a daiquiri girl, and Curtis likes cheap raw whiskey. Buddy thinks ethnic jokes are hilarious while Bianca likes quoting Yeats and Wordsworth... the possibilities should be fairly obvious. Once the PCs are focussed on Bobby Jean, things will probably get interesting. If the PCs act suspiciously, Bianca will probably emerge and start making Perception rolls. If the PCs use Songs, either Karl or Mrs. Pentecost will very quickly show up. The GM should try to play out the mystery for a while. The players are not likely to think MPD as a first explanation... a mad Kyrio or Shedim, or someone using some unusual Songs, will probably be their initial guess. There's no reason to disillusion them too soon. Most of Bobbie Jean's personalities will feel very threatened by celestials, and will cooperate to work against them. Mama Pentecost may accuse them publicly, or even try an impressive (though ineffectual) exorcism. Bianca will use her psychic (?) ability to try to pick up information that can be used against them. Curtis and Karl are perfectly willing to resort to violence if necessary. And, of course, if Karl can catch a would-be possessor, he may get access to the celestial's Songs and attunements, and in any event the personalities will have a powerful bargaining chip. If Bobby Jean, by herself, doesn't seem like enough of a challenge for the celestials, there are several ways you can spice things up. Throw in some red herring NPCs around her... a surly and unpleasant bartender, a bass player who is ostentatiously religious and refers to himself as a "Warrior for God", a sleazy, sweaty manager who constantly wants to shake hands... it's not too hard to get players wondering if they're dealing with a Djinn, a Soldier of God, and some kind of Impudite (players seem to love jumping to these sorts of conclusions... say someone is "surly and apathetic" and they _will_ think Djinn... even though the mundane world is full of surly and apathetic people). Assume that the first celestial she captured is still alive. He's in bad shape, though. Karl and the others have worked him over pretty good, and Karl now has ready access to all his Songs and attunements. The PCs should find it interesting when this cute little singer suddenly starts talking like Arnold and throwing Songs around... Add another party of celestials, investigating the same disappearance, but working for a rival Superior or for the other side. Add a powerful human Sorceror. He knows that there is something very strange about Bobby Jean and believes that he can use her to his own advantage. He will use Songs and henchmen to harass anyone else who seems to be interested in her. Note that Bobby Jean, by herself, isn't tough enough to fight most PC parties. Even with accesss to the Songs and skills of a captured celestial, she's probably no match for a group of determined PCs. But then, she's not supposed to be. She's a mystery, not a monster. If you think your players need some "bad guys" to go up against, throw in the rival investigators or the Sorceror. Alternate seed: Have someone notice Bobbie Jean's dreamscape in the Marches. It's larger than a normal one, and much more complicated. That, by itself, is not so odd... Blandine and Beleth know about MPD. But then a minor celestial went in to investigate, and never came out. What kind of dreamer can trap an angel or demon? Bobby Jean's dreamscape is very strange. Her various personalities appear as completely separate people -- Karl as a grim Teutonic warrior, Bianca as a rather Gothic teenager, Curtis as a tattooed slacker, etc. Details are at the GM's discretion, but it should be _much_ more dangerous than a normal human dream. And Daddy lies buried at the center of it... Wrapping up: once the PCs finally figure out what Bobby Jean is, what should they do about her? Bobby Jean is a potential weapon in the War! This woman can detect celestials (at least sometimes), and then trap them. Can she be recruited? Or studied, to see if her abilities can be duplicated? Angels will have to step carefully here. The *right* thing to do might be to try to *cure* Bobby Jean... powerful though she is, she is not a healthy human being. Demons will probably just want to kill her, at least at first. But if a Superior finds out that they wantonly destroyed such a potentially useful tool, there will be trouble. The GM should give them at least one chance to stop and think about it. Eventually, the celestials may end up trying to talk Bobby Jean into cooperating with them. How this plays out is left up to the GM, but note that they must persuade _several_ of the personalities in order to get effective cooperation. Jean will believe in angels quite readily; she has always felt that "someone was watching over me" (she's right -- Karl). Basically a good person, she'd be a tougher sell for demons, though she might be seduced by ambition. She'll be upset, though not traumatized, to learn the truth about her life. Mrs. Pentecost believes in angels and demons wholeheartedly. Good luck trying to talk to her, but it might be possible to bring her around to Heaven's side. She'll die rather than deal with demons. Bianca is easily swayed, and will go along with anyone who offers her a more dramatic life. Jolene might find Hell's side attractive; "good" people are sort of boring. Curtis would seem a natural recruit for Hell, but he's easily annoyed, and might just as easily direct his anger against the dark side. Buddy is vain and ambitious, and there's a good chance he will pick the opposite side from the others. If the PCs work with Bobby Jean, they will have to watch out for him... Karl only cares about what is good for Bobby Jean (i.e., all the other personalities). If there not a consensus, he will might push Ramona forward to negotiate. Have fun, Doug M. douglas.muir@yale.edu ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1283 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.