From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Jul 21 12:57:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA29079 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 12:57:28 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id MAA23831 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 12:51:08 -0500 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 12:51:08 -0500 Message-Id: <199907211751.MAA23831@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1288 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, July 21 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1288 In this digest: Fwd: Re: IN> Spam on the IN list IN> Re: IN- And The Bands Played On: The Faustim Re: Fwd: Re: IN> Spam on the IN list Re: IN> And The Bands Played On: Faust IN> Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1287 Re: IN> And The Bands Played On: Faust Re: IN> And The Bands Played On: Faust Re: IN> And The Bands Played On: Faust ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:23:29 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Fwd: Re: IN> Spam on the IN list What have I told people about the s u b s c r i b e word? That anything with that word gets bounced to me!! >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Admin request of type /\bsubscribe\b/i at line 2 > >Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:36:26 +0100 >From: Hilary Sklar >Subject: Re: IN> Spam on the IN list > > >I am thinking that if the spam filter gets put in, you could s u b scribe >all of your addresses, setting all but one of them NOMAIL - that way only >that address would get list mail, but you could still use the others to >post to the list without any problems (though you might want to check >with Beth to make sure that posting from a NOMAIL address doesn't >automatically turn NOMAIL off or something like that). > >Beth, will this work? > >Ashley. >Ashley and Hilary >omentide.omentide@virgin.net >http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide > To answer this, I have no clue. What's "NOMAIL"? Is this an option that's already offered with majordomo? (My spouse has also been muttering about PERL scripts which check to see how many hops a message has made before getting to the list, and bouncing to me anything which has too many -- since most spammers use several relay sites.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:16:54 PDT From: "Miles 2 Go" Subject: IN> Re: IN- And The Bands Played On: The Faustim Greetings, Hmm, I think the Faustim may be too powerful. Their perception based resonance is a pretty good power in and of itself. About on the same level as the Mercurian or Elohim resonance. With a CD of 2 or better they will certainly be able to tell a celestial at a glance. Even a CD of 1 is likely to reveal a celestial. Compare that to how difficult it is to uncover a celestial using any other resonance. However, I missed the background for your game The Bands Played On. Is the battlefield still being fought over living humans? Or did everyone die in armeggedon and the battle is open? If that's the case then being able to instantly spot celestials isn't such a huge advantage. On another tangent, how well does the perception resonance work in playtest? I'm afraid it would bog things down in real play. Example: You resonante him, ok, you got a CD of 4, he's strongest in Corp with 5 forces, Str 10, Agl 10, and has... In other words you can't show the player the character sheet, he didn't get everything, but you have to recite most of it. That gets even more annoyning to those GMs who just put stats on major NPCs, and create minor ones on the fly. So what you have is a really powerful ability. Add the emulation on top of it and you have a real powerful band (um choir, err whatever). On the subject of the Faust's servitor attunements, Let me add that they kick butt - every one of them. Which doesn't match IN. Most superiors have a few lame servitor attunements. (Elohim of Janus - bleah). Of course I noticed this one after I submitted a Gregori superiorand every one his servitors kicked butt... so I've made the same mistake. To better ballance servitors of Faust, not every choir/band should have an excellent attunement. Regards Tim _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 20:21:58 +0100 From: Hilary Sklar Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: IN> Spam on the IN list Beth, Sorry about using the s word. I have the message now. I will not use the s word ever again. Repeat 10,000 times..... I.... Sorry for the inconvenience, Ashley. Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 15:16:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Benjamin Acosta Subject: Re: IN> And The Bands Played On: Faust > From: Frank Lazar Malakim of Knowledge Attunement snipped > > This one might be the only real problem. Faust might not be > clearly good or evil, but the InNomine plolarity is more along the > selfless-selfish axis. And on that scale, he still very much in the > selfish zone. More flexible choirs might be able to work with Faust, > especially desperate Outcast, but Malakim is a real stretch. Well I mostly wrote up the Malakim attunement because I'm a completist. I agree that Malakim servitors of Faust's would be rarer than Bright Lilim. It isn't impossible, though. There might be a Malakite outcast or two who would consider his fight against Asmodeus and his supporters to be just enoough to join. Add the fact that he seems to be encouraging policies in which victimization of the weak by the strong is discouraged and people getting what they want by mutual consent, the fact that his Word doesn't seem to have Infernal connotations, and his human origin, and you might get at least one Malakite to give him the benefit of the doubt. > Among > other things it would mean putting aside one of the primary two Oaths > that make the essence of a Malakim, the one about not suffering a > demon to live on a too frequent basis. I believe the Oath is to "not suffer an evil to live if it's his choice." If someone could somehow convince a Malakite a demon isn't evil then the Malakite wouldn't have to slay him. It all depends on what a Malakite considers evil, and convincing him that the demons in question don't exhibit those qualities. It would be incredibly difficult to do, but Faust might just be able to pull it off. Especially with his Triumph of Reason Attunement. Ben, Elohim of Eli Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 15:58:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Benjamin Acosta Subject: IN> Re: > From: Douglas Muir > > > I'm not too wild about the idea that Faust is more or less neutral, though. > The neat thing about IN (IMO) is that it draws pretty clear-cut lines > between the sides. Yah, there are lots of grey areas, but the whole point > of the game is Good vs. Evil. This is what makes it unique and > interesting, at least for me. It might work better if Faust, like Lilith, > stays a somewhat mysterious figure. Well, the reason Faust is more public is because he's trying to overthrow Hell's order. If you could somehow rationalize his exisnence in a campaign closer to canon he would probably be more subtle and circumspect, like Lilith. > > The Faustim are pretty keen, but I have a quibble; they don't seem like > angels of "knowledge" at all. Imitation is a nifty talent,but how does it > relate to their master's Word? Don't think of it as imitation, think of it as learning. Using their resonance a Faustim scrutinizes another being's personal Symphony and "learns" from it, incorporating it temporarily into his own Symphony. Remember, their creator is a sorceror, who used his Will and sense of Self to manipulate the Symphony. Their resonance is a reflection of this. He's also a human, so their resonance reflects the flexibility of humanity. If someone playing a Faustim has the character points, concievably they could use the rationale that they're permanently incorporating a "lesson" into their Symphony when buying a skill or song. Another reason I made the Faustim Resonance work the way it does was to utilize the same Perception/Will dichotomy that existed in the Lilim, the other celestials who are the product of a human Superior. Incidently, is there any particlar reason you called them angels? How would you classify them, considering their origin and resonance? What would angels make of them? What would demons? I guess there isn't a way to test whether they're angels or demons short of exposing them to the Light of Heaven, so I guess it would be just a matter of opinion. Ben, Elohite of Eli Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 16:43:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Benjamin Acosta Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1287 > From: MarkDEddy@aol.com > > In a message dated 7/19/99 8:57:31 PM, douglas.muir@yale.edu writes: > > >Interesting writeup on these. Speaking for myself, I prefer campaigns that > >are closer to Canon... but I imagine Faust could be worked into one without > >too much difficulty. Certainly the idea of another (formerly) human > >Superior is interesting. > > > I'm not so sure. The Bright Victory/Grey Aftermath campaign is the only place > I could see something like what happened with Faust (in the background) > actually being pulled off. Only if the Princes are mostly defeated would they > allow a mortal to gain that much power. (In fact, Lilith was made Prince(ss) > just after the massive defeat of the Fall...) Well, you don't necessarily need the Princes to be mostly defeated. What you do need is a period of time in which most of Hell is distracted by other matters. This gives Faust the opportunity to get to the Chasm in Abbadon. The next requirement is a bit harder. You need for the Symphony to be in a state of flux, in order for Faust to have a chance of pulling his Word and Superior status from it. That is, unless you subscribe to the angelic theory that God gave him his Word as part of an ineffable plan. Of course, if the Princes are not mostly defeated then Faust would not stick around and lead a rebellion. He'd take his allies and hide, biding his time in order gather resources and power while coming up with a stategy. For example, here's what I would do with Faust in Redneck's Dark Victory Campaign. (If you're lurking on the list, I hope you don't mind me playing with your toys.) Faust's ascension would take place either while Hell's forces are taking Heaven, right about the time Jacob's Ladder snaps, or around the time of Lucifer's Redemption, right before Saminga takes the Granite Throne. Both of these incidents are periods when the very state of the Symphony is in flux and vulnerable to manipulation. Once he achieves Superior-hood Faust wastes no time in getting himself and his loyal allies out of Hell, taking advantage of the confusion caused by Lucifer's Redemption to cover his tracks. At worst, he's a rumor. Saminga, with his usual brains, is unconcerned. He then sets up shop in the Far Marches, gathering allies among the Ethereals and and any Outcasts, Renegades, and Orphans he finds. He'll maintain a showdowy, secretive existence, becoming a mysterious source of information and aid to the Preserver Faction. The underground movement he was a part of in Hell is still in place, and he'd use them as a source of intelligence. He would create Faustim servitors, but they would be under strict orders not reveal what they really were to anyone. In other words, he'd be the Illuminati Superior, using covert aid and manipulation to organize the defeat of the Destroyers in general, and Kronos in particular, with whom he has a major grudge. > > >I'm not too wild about the idea that Faust is more or less neutral, though. > >The neat thing about IN (IMO) is that it draws pretty clear-cut lines > >between the sides. Yah, there are lots of gray areas, but the whole point > >of the game is Good vs. Evil. This is what makes it unique and > >interesting, at least for me. It might work better if Faust, like Lilith, > >stays a somewhat mysterious figure. > > > Again, it is the campaign setup that makes this work. (IMHO) Besides, it's the gray in the Middle which makes the White White and the Black Black. Ben, Elohite of Eli Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 16:52:24 -0400 From: Frank Lazar Subject: Re: IN> And The Bands Played On: Faust At 3:16 PM -0500 7/20/99, Benjamin Acosta wrote: > > >Well I mostly wrote up the Malakim attunement because I'm a completist. I >agree that Malakim servitors of Faust's would be rarer than Bright Lilim. It probably wouldn't be that much of a completeness loss to have for that entry be simply No Malakim serve Faust for any of the reasons I gave. > >I believe the Oath is to "not suffer an evil to live if it's his choice." >If someone could somehow convince a Malakite a demon isn't evil then the >Malakite wouldn't have to slay him. The kind of day to day strain with acknowledging demons as fellow Servitors might actually be worse than Maximillian's situation in "Fall of the Malakim", at least he didn't actually have to acknowledge them as co-workers. I'd go with my original statement or perhaps be flexible to allow that there might be as many as ONE Malakite total working for Faust, it being a former Servitor of Raphael who went Outcast rather than give up the Word at the death of its prior servitor. It possibly would be honoring a personal Oath it gave to that Word that kept it from joining Jean or some other compatible superior when Raphael gave her life to put the kibosh on Legion. That's about the only way I could see a Malakite in Faust's service. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | _ | | We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. /_\ | | We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, // \\ | | Crystal and scanner, holographic demons, \\ //___\\ | | And invocations of equations. \\ // \\ | | \\__// \\ | | These are the tools we employ. And we know... many things. \\ | | \\ | | | | \\ | - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:01:11 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> And The Bands Played On: Faust I have a request: Let the singular of "Faustim" be "Faustite." "-im" is a plural ending. "Lilim" as a singular is one of IN's little in-house monstrosities. (I'd prefer "Lilite" or something from actual Hebrew.) Thanks. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:47:05 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> And The Bands Played On: Faust At 10:01 AM -0500 7/21/99, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >I have a request: Let the singular of "Faustim" be "Faustite." >"-im" is a plural ending. "Lilim" as a singular is one of >IN's little in-house monstrosities. (I'd prefer "Lilite" or >something from actual Hebrew.) Heh heh heh. He's right -- learn from the mistakes of canon! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1288 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.