From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Jan 11 09:16:54 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA18682 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 09:16:54 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id IAA08826 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 08:56:03 -0600 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 08:56:03 -0600 Message-Id: <200001111456.IAA08826@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1489 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, January 11 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1489 In this digest: Re: IN> Question for Mr. Edelstein ... Re: IN> Superiors 3 question IN> A question for you IN>Spam? (list question) and Opposite numbers IN> Question for Mr. Edelstein ... IN> Humans and Forces Re: IN> InNomine question Re: IN> A question for you Re: IN> InNomine question RE: IN> A question for you Re: IN>Spam? (list question) and Opposite numbers Re: IN> Question for Mr. Edelstein ... IN> A couple of questions Re: IN> A couple of questions Re: IN> A question for you Re: IN> A couple of questions Re: IN> Question for Mr. Edelstein ... IN> Jean's Dissonance IN> Something missing on that page IN> Back from a bit... IN> Malakim and Redeemed Re: IN> Malakim and Redeemed Re: IN> Malakim and Redeemed ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 20:39:28 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Question for Mr. Edelstein ... At 11:29 AM +1100 1/11/00, Chris Rose wrote: >At 06:53 PM 10/01/00 -0500, you wrote: >>A remnant isn't _really_ human, so >>it doesn't get to use this "human Rite." > >Let me guess - this is outlined elsewhere in the book, right ? A-yup! It's also in the main book. p. 50. >Just out of curiosity, exactly what is an exceptional roll ? CD6 ? >Intervention ? p. 50 of the main book. p. 20 of the CPG. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:18:12 +1100 From: "Azrael" Subject: Re: IN> Superiors 3 question From: -=|horsefly|=- Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 4:47 AM Subject: Re: IN> Superiors 3 question > On Sat, 8 Jan 2000 19:21:09 +1100 Azrael wrote: > [in response to my question of the fourth Superior] > >Perhaps Gabby? > wouldn't that have been the Archangel of Fire, then? The names Hope and Prophecy aren't their actual Words, but words which relate to the applications of their Words, Dreams to create Hope etc... and Gabriel is the Prophet of Heaven, and her word also applies to inspiration and Prophecy. Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 20:35:35 -0800 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> A question for you >>>He sounds like a Soldier of God to me.<<< Obviously he went light on the Ethereal Forces. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 20:40:53 -0800 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN>Spam? (list question) and Opposite numbers >>>I'm complaining at all of them, but yeah, we're having a (hopefully brief) spamstorm. I need to bug my cohorts who promised me a list of "people allowed to post" (that could be different from the subscribers list)... <<< Hasn't this been an issue for months now? Just restrict posting to subscribers only. It takes $0 and only slightly more IQ points to set up a Hotmail account, if for whatever reason people want to receive the IN List at an address from which they don't want to post. People who want to just read the Web digests and not receive the list at all.... gimme a break! Just subscribe to the list in digest form and delete the friggin' digests! These people insisting that they will be so terribly, terribly inconvenienced if the list is set to subscribers-only posting have numerous options, and in the meantime, we get all this crap spammed to the list for their convenience. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 20:43:11 -0800 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Question for Mr. Edelstein ... >>>Unless I've got it wrong...? (Have I, David?)<<< Nope, you got it right. (Nice to see my name appearing in a message header for polite purposes....last time it was some munchkin flaming me for being a meanie. ;)) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 18:55:54 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Martin Subject: IN> Humans and Forces On Mon, 10 Jan 2000, David Edelstein wrote: > >>>He sounds like a Soldier of God to me.<<< > > Obviously he went light on the Ethereal Forces. Maybe he's just really good with his hands. Which brings up an interesting question... Because of the way the rules work,your average human, in order to be "above average" in something, has to be dismal at most other things. You can't have someone who is smart and strong-willed without having him also be clumsy, dull (bad Perception), and Corporeally laughable. If you're a good carpenter, but mundane, you can't afford to be *too* bright without being over-Ethereal. (Likewise, you can be strong or fast, but not both, without being an idiot.) Michael Martin "It is no one's privilege to despise another. It is only a hard-won right after long experience." -- Isaac Asimov, "C-Chute" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 02:54:35 +0000 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> InNomine question In message , Elizabeth McCoy writes >At 5:18 PM +0000 1/10/00, Laurent wrote: >>Hello! I have a new question about InNomine rules. It's about the resonance of >>some characters. >> >>I would like to know if resonances that give info about a person work only on >>humans, or on celestials as well. > >Celestials as well. You note the Malakite resonance, for instance, and the >text pretty clearly states that on a CD 6 of a successful resonance roll, >the Malakite can realize if he's resonating a Balseraph! > >Where things get sticky is with Mercurians and Roles -- you may want to >check the digests to see about those, but it's been generally agreed >that with a "low" CD (for some value of low) and especially a "high" >level of Role (for some value of high), the Mercurian should _mostly_ >get the Role information rather than the actual, infernal data. > I use the house rule that you might allow a Celestial a Role Level + Corp Forces d666 roll and treat that as a contest via the opposing Celestial's Resonance roll. If the resonating Celestial fails then he gets Role specific information. This might make angelic resonances a little too underpowered for some tastes (because it might be felt that it shouldn't be 'opposable') but it does make Roles even more desirable, and might work as a tool for some refs to get their players to do more _with_ their Roles. And hey, if you can fool the entire Symphony with a Role, then why not one Celestial? - -- Julian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 03:13:11 +0000 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> A question for you >> >>Does that mean if I claim to talk to God directly, no one will nitpick >>me? ;) > >It depends on if you get designated a Habbalite or not... O;> > There's a case for that, but... a Balseraph, surely? >:-) - -- Julian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 22:22:17 -0500 From: Mason Kramer Subject: Re: IN> InNomine question > From: Julian Breen > And hey, if you can fool the entire Symphony with a Role, then why not > one Celestial? That is *such* a point. I may have to steal that house rule. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 21:48:14 -0600 From: "Greg Bilbruck" Subject: RE: IN> A question for you > >>>He sounds like a Soldier of God to me.<<< > > Obviously he went light on the Ethereal Forces. > > -David > Sniping at the Soldier of God's IQ? His writing skills were more indicative of his zealousness than his intelligence... unless you are claiming that his views are wrong. *chuckles* If you think that he is wrong, your comment is ironic on at least two levels. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 23:01:57 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN>Spam? (list question) and Opposite numbers > Hasn't this been an issue for months now? I concur with David. In the Majordomo FAQ (which I've pointed people to numerous times now privately) it clearly states that the first step in eliminating unwanted spam is to limit the mailing list to subscribers only. This really isn't rocket science here. It's one setting on the majordomo script in question. For people who don't want to get the mail in their personal mail box, or whatever: A) Use a mail client which filters into seperate folders. Almost every graphical client on the planet does this now. Several of these are free. B) If you're a UNIX weenie (I am), go install procmail on your box, or go beg your sysadmin to do it for you. Or go use one of the gazillion options available to you to filter your mail. C) Get the digest. Read digest. Delete digest. D) Subscribe to a free email account to funnel the email. or E... if you don't want the email, why are you subscribing to mail lists? It's a Media induced new millenia now, and this shouldn't be hard anymore. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 23:07:25 EST From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Question for Mr. Edelstein ... In a message dated 1/10/00 5:44:13 PM Central Standard Time, emccoy@nh.ultranet.com writes: << I can tell you this one -- humans can use their greatest gift (i.e., the skill they're best in) and if the succeed spectacularly, they get a point of Essence! (Ding!) A remnant isn't _really_ human, so it doesn't get to use this "human Rite." >> I heard they had to be really good at it. That the skill had to be at 6. Rev. Brian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 23:20:04 -0500 (EST) From: "J. Michael Smith" Subject: IN> A couple of questions 1) With difficulty, an angel can invoke an archangel that they aren't serving, and a demon can invoke a demon prince that they aren't serving. But can an angel invoke a demon prince, or could a demon invoke an archangel? This possibility just occurred to me, and I CAN think of situations where this might arise. I was wondering both about the canon ruling on this question, and on your general non-canon reaction to the possibility. Of course, I am being lazy and not researching the core rules (The only book I have available to me.) 2) A lot of people talk about Dominic's dark robes and his inquisition. They talk about how he's probably hiding a lot of dissonance and discord. My question is: Under what circumstances would Dominic actually become an outcast, or fall? I understand that he's a seraphim, and I assume that he, like his servitors, can't punish the innocent. What would he be like as a demon prince? Would he even BE a demon prince? (Come to think of it, has any archangel fallen since THE fall?) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 23:36:09 EST From: SdshowTim@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> A couple of questions <<1) With difficulty, an angel can invoke an archangel that they aren't serving, and a demon can invoke a demon prince that they aren't serving. But can an angel invoke a demon prince, or could a demon invoke an archangel?>> [snip] Anyone can Summon Lilith so that's one down. I only have the GMG and Superiors 1 with me so I can't do much research but as I understand it Summoning a Superior involves getting there attention and making it obvious that its worth it for them to go pay you a visit. I would say that it is within canon to allow anyone to get the attention of a Superior, however the non-servitor filter is there for a reason. You'd need an aweful lot to get the (none fatal) attention of a Superior on the other side. Not to mention the fatal attention that you'd get from your own Superior later (or at least the Inquistion or Game). An individual ready to switch sides would probably be able to attract attention with greater ease. Though going to a tether or contacting known Servitors may be better approachs. The penalty for Summoning a Superior on the oppisite side may just be in the reaction you get if they do come. Or you can just allow it to work when it would be appropriate regardless of modifiers. However considering the scope of Archangels and Demon Princes I don't doubt the possibility of them noticing every attempt to invoke there attention (which may resault in squads of Malakim or Calabim as appropriate). [snip] << My question is: Under what circumstances would Dominic actually become an outcast, or fall? I understand that he's a seraphim, and I assume that he, like his servitors, can't punish the innocent. What would he be like as a demon prince? Would he even BE a demon prince? (Come to think of it, has any archangel fallen since THE fall?) >> No Archangel has Fallen since The Fall. Superiors 1 explains why Dominic wears the cloak. I like the idea of Archangels having to jump, basicly forcing themselves away from the Divine not haphazerdly being distenced. They are pained even more by dissonance than there Servitors and thus rarely acrue it and can clear it easily. As a Demon Prince I'd invision him as something like the Demon Prince of Discipline or Regulation (or maybe even Judgement). However what as a Demon Prince he'd definetly overlap with Asmodeus a lot. Either they'd get along splendidly (both taking up positions in the Game that are only mock antagonistic) or they'd try and kill eachother. Or both. It would all depend on why Dominic became demonic. Timothy, Angel of Rambling ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 16:08:37 +1100 From: "Azrael" Subject: Re: IN> A question for you > Sniping at the Soldier of God's IQ? His writing skills were more indicative > of his zealousness than his intelligence... unless you are claiming that his > views are wrong. > *chuckles* > If you think that he is wrong, your comment is ironic on at least two > levels. I disagree, the fact that he even posted such a ridiculous message is indicative of his intelligence. Whether or not his views are wrong dont even have anything to do with his intelligence. Which 2 levels? Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 00:00:18 -0600 From: Shadowstar Subject: Re: IN> A couple of questions At 11:20 PM -0500 01/10/00, J. Michael Smith wrote: >1) [Celestials summoning OPPOSING Superiors.] AFAIK, about the _only_ one you _might_ be able to do this with is Lilith. Assuming you have Angels doing it. But expect to pay _heavy_ Geases if you do. . . (Not to mention what the Inquisition does to you afterwards.) My best guess is that this is left up to the individual GM (I'd allow it, but then I'm a Sadist at heart). 'Official' word might outright say _no_, since this does cause some serious headaches, but don't quote me on that. >2) [Bal-Dom] >My question is: Under what circumstances would Dominic actually become an >outcast, or fall? If he breaks his Choir dissonance conditions. I don't _think_ Superiors actually have to follow their Word dissonance conditions, unless they have specific Oaths to the contrary (David, Laurence and Uriel for example). I'm a little fuzzy on this part. >What would he be like as a demon prince? Worse than Asmodeus. >Would he even BE a demon prince? _Most_ takes on Bal-Dom have him becoming a Demon Prince, yeah. But, YMMV. >(Come to think of it, has any archangel fallen since THE fall?) Archangel, no. Kahlid came close, but that's about it AFAIK. About the only _major_ fall would deal with Magog, but he was a high-ranking Wordbound Servitor of Stone. . . (Though we may yet see what Valefor has in store for us. . .) Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centurytel.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://home.centurytel.net/shdwstar/in-nomine/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 00:27:35 -0800 From: graveyard@cstone.net (Graveyard Greg) Subject: Re: IN> Question for Mr. Edelstein ... >(Nice to see my name appearing in a message header for polite >purposes....last time it was some munchkin flaming me for being a >meanie. ;)) But you ARE a meanie, David! We still like you, though ;-) Graveyard Greg PS: Just kidding about the meanie. It's EDG that's the meanie, right EDG? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 01:31:56 -0600 From: kobal Subject: IN> Jean's Dissonance Hi all, I've been lurking here for quite a while and feel like I know you, but since this is my first post, you of course don't know me.... Anyway, on to my question. One of my players wants to play a servitor of Jean, and since I've admittedly had little interest in Jean as Superior, I had just glanced at his description. When the player and I were looking over the description, he mentioned that Jean's dissonance conditions seemed kind of vague and not much of a hindrance. The part about opposing diabolical technology is clear enough, but I'm not sure how to work the part about technological secrets and allowing celestial technology into the hands of humans. How have the rest of you handled this? Thanks in advance, Samiel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:20:35 -0000 From: "Laurent" Subject: IN> Something missing on that page Elizabeth, I just read this perception page: http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/Tips/perception.html Some good tricks alright... But I think the Calabims of Saminga can detect how much body hits a being can take before being destroyed. Now I'm not sure, I'm at work and I don't have my book with me... But I think that a little girl who can take up to 96 body hits might raise some suspicions... Laurent. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 05:11:23 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Dykes Subject: IN> Back from a bit... Thanks for the link Eric, it's helped me firm up a few things in my setting. Hopefully I'll be able to get a campaign started this summer... Here's a couple of Frontline web pages that should provide plenty of campaign fodder: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/apocalypse/ http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/ The first is an examination of (primarily) Christian eschatology throughout history, the second is an examination of early Christianity, from the beginning up until its mainstream acceptance. bkd __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 09:22:32 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: IN> Malakim and Redeemed This is about to come up IMC, so I wanted some opinions. What happens when a Malakite uses his resonance on a recently redeemed demon? He'll probably pick up on all the evil that the beast has done. Will he also catch on to the fact that it has redeemed? Especially if it hasn't had time to *do* anything good yet? Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 09:31:01 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and Redeemed Douglas Muir wrote: > What happens when a Malakite uses his resonance on a recently redeemed > demon? He'll probably pick up on all the evil that the beast has > done. Will he also catch on to the fact that it has redeemed? > Especially if it hasn't had time to *do* anything good yet? I'd think you could count the act of redeeming as something good, in and of itself. I mean, the creature has submitted to having its Forces rearranged, at the risk of soul-death, not to mention all the adventures it had slipping away from its Prince and the Game, and finding a sympathetic Archangel. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 06:52:39 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and Redeemed I can see two options. Either yes, the evil done whilst a demon is still going to be visible to the Malakite (which could lead to amusing situations -- in one of my games, a Malakite PC resonated a Wordbound angel of Destiny and found that the most evil thing he had ever done was to destroy a heavenly tether. It confused her a lot.) Or no, because the act of redemption wipes a celestial's soul clean, as if it was reborn. I guess you figure out which fits best with the tone of your game. jo >From: Earl Wajenberg >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and Redeemed >Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 09:31:01 -0500 > >Douglas Muir wrote: > > > What happens when a Malakite uses his resonance on a recently redeemed > > demon? He'll probably pick up on all the evil that the beast has > > done. Will he also catch on to the fact that it has redeemed? > > Especially if it hasn't had time to *do* anything good yet? > >I'd think you could count the act of redeeming as something good, >in and of itself. I mean, the creature has submitted to having >its Forces rearranged, at the risk of soul-death, not to mention >all the adventures it had slipping away from its Prince and the >Game, and finding a sympathetic Archangel. > >Earl ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1489 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.