From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Jan 12 09:20:57 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA16639 for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:20:57 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id JAA23819 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:10:59 -0600 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:10:59 -0600 Message-Id: <200001121510.JAA23819@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1490 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, January 12 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1490 In this digest: Re: IN> Malakim and Redeemed Re: IN>Spam? (list question) and Opposite numbers RE: IN> A question for you Re: IN> A couple of questions Re: IN> Jean's Dissonance Re: IN> Malakim and Redeemed Re: IN> Malakim and Redeemed IN> A question for you IN> A question for you Re: IN> Malakim and Redeemed Re: IN> A question for you Re: IN> InNomine question Re: IN> A question for you Re: IN> Humans and Forces Re: IN> IN Wild Cards Re: IN> Malakim and Redeemed Re: IN> Malakim and Redeemed Re: IN> InNomine question Re: IN> InNomine question Re: IN> Malakim and Redeemed Re: IN> IN Wild Cards IN> Soldier of God SPAM Re: IN> Soldier of God SPAM IN> The Spammer of God RE: IN> A question for you Re: IN> InNomine question Re: IN> InNomine question IN> Malakim resonances on redeemed Re: IN> InNomine question IN> Ofanim Rock! IN> Journalist Soldiers Re: IN> Journalist Soldiers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 09:47:22 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and Redeemed At 9:22 AM -0400 1/11/00, Douglas Muir wrote: >This is about to come up IMC, so I wanted some opinions. > >What happens when a Malakite uses his resonance on a recently redeemed >demon? He'll probably pick up on all the evil that the beast has done. >Will he also catch on to the fact that it has redeemed? Especially if it >hasn't had time to *do* anything good yet? > I would practically guarantee the "most honorable thing" the newly redeemed Angel has done in *whatever* increment of time the CD comes up with will be "Redeemed and rejoined the service of Heaven." This would be such a blindingly honorable (not good, by the way -- honorable) thing that it would eclipse all the other things. What might be more interesting is if said Malakite picked up on it when resonating a Celestial in the Marches who he *knows* is a demon, but who believes he's redeemed. (See _You Are Here_ for more on such a scenario.) - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalah of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 10:19:05 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN>Spam? (list question) and Opposite numbers At 8:40 PM -0800 1/10/00, David Edelstein wrote: >>>>I'm complaining at all of them, but yeah, we're having a (hopefully >brief) spamstorm. I need to bug my cohorts who promised me a list >of "people allowed to post" (that could be different from the >subscribers list)... <<< > >Hasn't this been an issue for months now? Just restrict posting to >subscribers only. I was _promised_ a way for non-subscribers to still post, in a two-stage setup which no spammer is likely to manage, and for people whose machine name changes to still post, etc. I'd _like_ to get the actual _fix_ instead of getting umpty people grumping in my mailbox because they can't post -- and have just dug up the address of the folks who were _supposed_ to be helping me with that and bugged them again. (Yeah, if I _can't_ get this "Perfectly simple if you have access to the majordomo machine" fix, I'm going to have to do the restriction thing. And I now predict several unhappy, "Oh don't do that!" messages in my personal email box. O:p ) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 10:19:04 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> A question for you At 9:48 PM -0600 1/10/00, Greg Bilbruck wrote: >> >>>He sounds like a Soldier of God to me.<<< >> >> Obviously he went light on the Ethereal Forces. >> -David > >Sniping at the Soldier of God's IQ? His writing skills were more indicative >of his zealousness than his intelligence... unless you are claiming that his >views are wrong. >*chuckles* >If you think that he is wrong, your comment is ironic on at least two >levels. Whether you think his views are right or wrong, it's pretty stupid to post them to a mailing list where the list admin takes a dim view of people being so far off-topic (trying to convert people is off-topic), and, upon noting that the entire thing didn't mention the system by name _once_, or even gaming, concluded it was spam and told his ISP that it was spam to a mailing list. Which would indicate he went light on the Intelligence side of Ethereal Forces, if not light on the EthForces entirely. And may have met his fate: spamming. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 10:19:03 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> A couple of questions At 11:20 PM -0500 1/10/00, J. Michael Smith wrote: >1) With difficulty, an angel can invoke an archangel that they aren't >serving, and a demon can invoke a demon prince that they aren't serving. >But can an angel invoke a demon prince, or could a demon invoke an >archangel? Yup. -10 for most, -6 for Lilith. You probably wouldn't like the result. (A GM could make a case for the -10 only applying to same-side folk, but I don't see why not. I'd tack on even more negative modifiers to the roll for trying to invoke a Prince into a _trap_, mind...) >Of course, I am being lazy and not researching the core rules Bad. Read the book, read the FAQ (available off the resources link of www.sjgames.com/in-nomine), _then_ ask the questions. Otherwise, Bad Things will happen to you. No, you don't want to know what. >2) A lot of people talk about Dominic's dark robes and his inquisition. >They talk about how he's probably hiding a lot of dissonance and discord. >My question is: Under what circumstances would Dominic actually become an >outcast, or fall? The ones the GM decides upon. > I understand that he's a seraphim, A _Seraph_. Note the singular. (Yes, this is a pet peeve of the Line Editor...) Seraph is singular, Seraphim is plural, and it's always capitalized. >What would he be like as a demon prince? Go check out one version at the INC's Dark Victory, located somewhere on the INC. www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles . > Would he even BE a demon prince? Buy and read the GMG (Game Master's Guide) for more discussion on what happens if Superiors Fall/redeem. >(Come to think of it, has any archangel fallen since THE fall?) I'm 99.9999% sure the answer is no. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 10:19:02 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Jean's Dissonance At 1:31 AM -0600 1/11/00, kobal wrote: >[...] he mentioned that Jean's dissonance >conditions seemed kind of vague and not much of a hindrance. The part >about opposing diabolical technology is clear enough, but I'm not sure >how to work the part about technological secrets and allowing celestial >technology into the hands of humans. How have the rest of you handled >this? In our games... (We have several Jeanites.) For the most part, it means that the Servitors of Jean don't get to play with the Ultratech catalog. They usually have the best, cutting- edge _mundane_ tech that they can afford -- but they don't have the best that the Halls of Progress can deliver. Our Jeanites -- an Ofanite and a Kyrio, a Lilim geased to Lightning's service, and an NPC Creationer Elohite in service to Lightning -- aren't ultra-techies anyway. The Kyriotate is young, the Ofanite is, well, an Ofanite, and the other two are doing other things besides tech-work. If you have a Malakite of Lightning, though, you may see the player trying to improvise up ultratech items, using the skills they learned in the highly advanced Halls of Progress. If the PC comes up with something that's above the norms, or even put together in a way the humans haven't figured out yet, then that PC had better be blessed sure that the item he's just built doesn't fall into human hands! For the most part, non-gadgeteers are pretty safe from that half of their dissonance conditions. However, it can dovetail with the Must Oppose Infernal Tech -- if they find out that Infernal Tech is about to fall into human hands (even if it's just the raygun that the Vapulan dropped when the Jeanite shot him, and the cops are cleaning up the evidence!), they're risking dissonance. This basically means they can't plan hit-and- runs for Vapulan establishments, because if mundanes get hold of HellTech, that counts as technological secrets or celestial technological devices! (Note that all the funky items that Vapulans get probably count, too.) Other GMs may let their Jeanites have more access to ultratech or tech- relics. In that case, it's almost a case of "Here, have enough rope to hang yourself." IMO, if a Servitor of Lightning got such a toy, and lost it (thereby gaining dissonance), the toy would also get taken away if it hadn't already been destroyed. (And Heaven help you if you haven't got it _back_ by the time your Boss notices that dissonant note, because at best some other team will be dispatched to retrieve it and play MIB, and at worst... your Archangel will do it for you. And _then_ assign you to Microsoft Tech Support for the next fifty years.) As a note, our Jeanites are supposed to send weekly email reports to their Boss, via one of the various Tethers around the world. (The local lot use the MIT Media Lab; it's a very noisy place, with the Kyriotate Seneschal moving "packets" of email and netnews up and down the Tether all the time...) Hope that helps you! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 10:19:01 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and Redeemed At 9:22 AM -0400 1/11/00, Douglas Muir wrote: >What happens when a Malakite uses his resonance on a recently redeemed >demon? He'll probably pick up on all the evil that the beast has done. >Will he also catch on to the fact that it has redeemed? Especially if it >hasn't had time to *do* anything good yet? A kind GM will make sure that The Top Thing sitting on the resonance list is: "Most Honorable Thing: Redeemed." (It's such a big, blaring state-change -- it's easily justified to be the Very First Thing picked up.) And redemption should be a very honorable thing, since it really does risk personal death in a painful way (canonically) for a Greater Good. Likewise, Falling usually registers as a Most Dishonorable... If it's happened recently enough. O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 08:51:43 -0600 From: "Dennis Groome" Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and Redeemed personally, I think that it'd show up as Most Noble Thing = Redeem and I'd just leave it at that. - -Dennis H. Groome V "Amo Nympham" http://evm-gamers.freeservers.com ICQ: 11430261 "I think I woke up screaming, 'cause I had a dream that you still love me." -Stabbing Westward, ACF > > This is about to come up IMC, so I wanted some opinions. > > What happens when a Malakite uses his resonance on a recently redeemed > demon? He'll probably pick up on all the evil that the beast has done. > Will he also catch on to the fact that it has redeemed? Especially if it > hasn't had time to *do* anything good yet? > > > > Doug M. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 09:28:35 -0800 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> A question for you >>>There's a case for that, but... a Balseraph, surely? >:-)<<< Nope, Habbalite. I've been called a lot of things, but never a liar, to my knowledge. If anything, my problem is a reluctance to *avoid* saying what I honestly think. ;) - -David (usually an Elohite of Not Suffering Fools, but sometimes a Habbalite of Sarcasm when I get dissonant ) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 09:31:06 -0800 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> A question for you >>>Sniping at the Soldier of God's IQ? His writing skills were more indicative of his zealousness than his intelligence... unless you are claiming that his views are wrong.<<< Well, since I am an atheist, obviously I do think he's wrong, but my comment was referring to the nonsensical and inane manner in which he expressed his views, and the thoughtless manner in which he spammed the list with them. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 10:30:38 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and Redeemed At 10:19 AM -0500 1/11/00, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >Likewise, Falling usually registers as a Most Dishonorable... If it's >happened recently enough. O:> I'd think that would depend on the reasons (and self-justification) for the Fall. A Demon who believes in his heart that he's rebelling against a cruel and oppressive Heavenly Regime wouldn't have a Fall register as Dishonorable by *his* standards. And a Habbalite wouldn't even admit to the Fall, much less Dishonor accrued by it. Unless this is a Yoyo, and he's gotten back to Heaven within the time alloted by the CD of the Malakite. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalah of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 10:46:57 -0500 From: "Gregory Gietzen" Subject: Re: IN> A question for you - ----- Original Message ----- From: David Edelstein > I've been called a lot of things, but never a liar, to my knowledge. If > anything, my problem is a reluctance to *avoid* saying what I honestly > think. ;) Yeah. Like any Balseraph is going to *admit* it. Especially when asked at point blank range... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:22:49 -0500 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> InNomine question > And hey, if you can fool the entire Symphony with a Role, then why not > one Celestial? The current canon that Beth and I worked out is that if the CD of the Mercurian resonance exceeds that of the Role, then you get the 'real' data, otherwise you just get Role data. This of course means the Role/6 is nearly uncrackable unless the Mercurian has bonuses to the CD... - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:18:11 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> A question for you At 9:28 AM -0800 1/11/00, David Edelstein wrote: > >>>There's a case for that, but... a Balseraph, surely? >:-)<<< > >Nope, Habbalite. > >I've been called a lot of things, but never a liar, to my knowledge. If >anything, my problem is a reluctance to *avoid* saying what I honestly >think. ;) Besides, a Balseraph's resonance is designed to mold your worldview to his. That's not David's MO. When the Habbalite of Sarcasm comes out, there's a *lot* more of the Punisher in him. I once had Elohim tendencies. Honestly. It's even the one pin I own. But the Habbalah of Gluttony, now in Service to Belaboring the Point, just seems my Fate. I think Jean should make Celestial Lithium to help balance out these mood swings.... - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalah of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:31:42 -0500 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> Humans and Forces Michael Martin wrote: > You can't have someone who is smart and strong-willed without having him > also be clumsy, dull (bad Perception), and Corporeally laughable. Not exactly. Even with 5 Forces, you can still buy up stats in any of the three areas. Three extra stat points in that area makes you _almost_ as good as someone that has a whole extra force. Normal total of stats with 5 Forces = 20 (average=3.33) Maximum total of stats with 5 Forces = 29 (average=4.5) Here's a 5 Force person using this method. At least average in most areas and better than 'excellent' in two. Str/4 Agil/3 Int/7 Prec/4 Wil/7 Perc/4 - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 21:25:16 -0000 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> IN Wild Cards From: Ryan > Dominic would Outcast any angels > who HAVE been infected why? all it would do would mutate the celestials' vessels. if it gives them some funky powers, cool. otherwise, you trash the vessel and give them a new one. i can't see celestials being prejudiced against people because they look weird, otherwise kyriotates would have drummed out of heaven by now liam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:21:21 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and Redeemed From: "Douglas Muir" > > What happens when a Malakite uses his resonance on a recently redeemed > demon? He'll probably pick up on all the evil that the beast has done. > Will he also catch on to the fact that it has redeemed? Especially if it > hasn't had time to *do* anything good yet? I'd say that redemption would come up as the most honorable thing the demon had done recently. Once a Malakite picks up on that, he should take a "wait and see" attitude toward smiting the demon. Sort of an "I'm proud that this one finally saw the error of its ways, but if it trips I will be there to correct it by whatever means are necessary" type of thing. This is how I would play it, at least. ;;;) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 12:35:16 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and Redeemed Prodigal wrote: > I'd say that redemption would come up as the most honorable thing > the demon had done recently. > > Once a Malakite picks up on that, he should take a "wait and see" > attitude toward smiting the demon. If it's *redeemed*, then it isn't a *demon* anymore, is it? Or are we really talking a penitent redeemed-wannabe, waiting to see the Archangel? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:55:51 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> InNomine question At 11:22 AM -0500 1/11/00, John Karakash wrote: >> And hey, if you can fool the entire Symphony with a Role, then why not >> one Celestial? > > The current canon that Beth and I worked out is that >if the CD of the Mercurian resonance exceeds that of the Role, >then you get the 'real' data, otherwise you just get Role data. >This of course means the Role/6 is nearly uncrackable unless >the Mercurian has bonuses to the CD... We did? I thought it was semi-canon, and had flaws, IIRC. Actually, the contest of Role vs. Resonance may be a more elegant mechanic for it that doesn't have the flaws of the CD stuff. (At the least, it's an option I hadn't thought about at the time!) I have to think about it for 2/e. O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 15:04:12 -0500 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> InNomine question Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > We did? I thought it was semi-canon, and had flaws, IIRC. Actually, > the contest of Role vs. Resonance may be a more elegant mechanic for > it that doesn't have the flaws of the CD stuff. (At the least, it's > an option I hadn't thought about at the time!) I have to think about > it for 2/e. O:> Actually, what may be thought of as a flaw I rather like. A Role/6 should be an _impressive_ thing and it makes them more valuable (especially with all those darn Mercurians wandering around). - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:16:10 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and Redeemed From: "Earl Wajenberg" > > If it's *redeemed*, then it isn't a *demon* anymore, is it? > Or are we really talking a penitent redeemed-wannabe, waiting to > see the Archangel? It would all depend on how much of a hardliner the Malakite was. ;;;) But you're right; I was assuming that we were dealing with a demon that hadn't had its Forces realigned by an AA yet. Once that had happened, I just can't see any Malakim taking a violent course of action, unless the newly-redeemed angel began gaining dissonance. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:53:17 -0500 From: CyberCat Subject: Re: IN> IN Wild Cards I think that would depend on what level the virus primarily operates. There is some implication thru the books that it's at some level more than a simply physical thing, and the mutations often stem from a literal or figurative translation of the person's self-image through affecting their mind. (Can't you just see what happens to the cherub? ) What if perhaps it has a more magical component, or even a celestial one, since it's being supposed that it's a Vapulan construction. (I like the idea that it's someone's dissertation to receive the Word of Disease....) Then it might not entirely go away with a change in bodies. Even if it didn't mutate the Celestial form, it might make them into a 'carrier' (Envision the events surrounding the Sleeper's 'typhoid sleeper' phase, but with a kyrio as the transmitter...) An interesting twist on the story all around. However, I think it would have one odd benefit. It would get much less difficult to hide discords, active physically-affecting songs, or usage of several other songs. After all, many of the powers could be explained away as Ace abilities! I'm tripping across this oddity in my WoD campaign, since I've written Aberrant into the WoD universe. When an Aberrant can manifest wings and fly, celestial carelessness is suddenly easier to explain away. Right now IMC there is a Cherub of Eli hanging out with the first 'superhero team', keeping an eye on things and learning about the Novas. A few quick Song tricks were sufficient to convince them that he was one of them. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Liam Astley" To: Sent: Monday, January 10, 2000 4:25 PM Subject: Re: IN> IN Wild Cards > From: Ryan > > Dominic would Outcast any angels > > who HAVE been infected > > why? all it would do would mutate the celestials' vessels. if it gives them > some funky powers, cool. otherwise, you trash the vessel and give them a new > one. i can't see celestials being prejudiced against people because they > look weird, otherwise kyriotates would have drummed out of heaven by now > > liam > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:03:02 -0600 From: "Greg Bilbruck" Subject: IN> Soldier of God SPAM > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > [mailto:owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com]On Behalf Of Azrael > > Sniping at the Soldier of God's IQ? His writing skills were more > indicative > > of his zealousness than his intelligence... unless you are claiming that > his > > views are wrong. > > *chuckles* > > If you think that he is wrong, your comment is ironic on at least two > > levels. > > I disagree, the fact that he even posted such a ridiculous message is > indicative of his intelligence. Please elucidate. How was his message ridiculous? How was it indicative of his intellect? Actually, I think that it was the most refreshingly on-topic SPAM that I have ever received over a mailing list of this sort. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 15:17:17 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Soldier of God SPAM >From: "Greg Bilbruck" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Please elucidate. How was his message ridiculous? How was it indicative of >his intellect? > Look, it was very ridiculous to anyone except another 'true believer'. Can we drop this topic? jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 18:57:50 -0600 From: "Greg Bilbruck" Subject: IN> The Spammer of God > Elizabeth wrote: > >> >>>He sounds like a Soldier of God to me.<<< > >> > >> Obviously he went light on the Ethereal Forces. > >> -David > > > >Sniping at the Soldier of God's IQ? His writing skills were more > indicative > >of his zealousness than his intelligence... unless you are > claiming that his > >views are wrong. > >*chuckles* > >If you think that he is wrong, your comment is ironic on at least two > >levels. > >Greg > > Whether you think his views are right or wrong, it's pretty stupid to > post them to a mailing list where the list admin takes a dim view of > people being so far off-topic (trying to convert people is off-topic) > Elizabeth I am confident that most In Nomine participants have invested well in ethereal forces but many of you seem to be missing your dice rolls on this one. I must have rolled 1-1-1 on this check. Please... allow me to elucidate... The *only* thing that we should be sure of about the SoG (Spammer of God) is that he is a zealous Trinitarian Christian (at the most) or that he received this message from a zealous Trinitarian Christian and forwarded this message to us (at the least). We should not be sure of anything beyond that. I didn't save the Spammer of God's message so I can not refer to it, but I remember a few things about it: * Was the message spam? Yes * Was it authored by the person that posted the message to our list? maybe (the message was forwarded with no forwarding comments and it was addressed to a specific person) * Was the author illiterate? no. The author chose an informal writing style, but an informal style seemed to suit the message. * Was it sent by a subscriber? Almost no chance that it was a subscriber. (firstly, a subscriber would know what a poor reception that this message would have received and that it wouldn't have achieved the desired results. secondly, the message indicated that the author had noticed a website with lots of information about demons and angels and... since you were inquiring about demons and angels... he was willing to provide you with more information. I believe that the author mentioned something about the Bible being full of stories about angels and demons and suggests that the reader begin studying the Holy Scripture to satisfy the perceived interest in learning more about: angels and demons.) * Was it a message that would seem weird to some of us on the list? It would seem so. The SoG mentions that God told him to send the message. This seems scary to some people... but not to a Trinitarian Christian. Several times in the Gospel of John, Jesus mentions that he is leaving Earth soon and that God will send the "Counselor" (the Holy Spirit) to guide, protect, teach, and comfort believers in his absence. Trinitarians believe that the Holy Spirit is a part of the Holy Trinity of God... so the SoG's comments are not off-base when he claims that God told him to send the message to us (or to the subject of the message). > and, upon noting that the entire thing didn't mention the system by > name _once_, or even gaming, concluded it was spam and told his ISP > that it was spam to a mailing list. > Yes, it was spam and should have been reported... but that wasn't my point. If you think it was my point, you are mistaken and should re-read my reply to David (which still remains at the top of this message). My comments were not defending the SoG's right to spam us, but refuting David's poorly-thought-out attack on the SoG's intelligence quotient. Please do not mistake me. I do not claim that David "went light on the Ethereal Forces". On the contrary! He seems smarter than his response. When I read it, I thought "This can't be David posting this message... he is too bright for this poorly-thought-out supposition!" It is my opinion that David was just fortifying his position so that he could feel comfortable. When I did not see proof of God, I found some comfort in attacking the intellect of zealous Christians. As an agnostic, I referred to Christians as "mindless sheep" or "robots". It certainly made me feel more "fortified" in my position. Perhaps David was doing the same thing. > Which would indicate he went light on the Intelligence side of > Ethereal Forces, if not light on the EthForces entirely. And > may have met his fate: spamming. > Actually, one of the ironies of this whole discussion is that if the "Spammer of God" were a Servitor of Laurence in an In Nomine campaign, he would have received experience points for playing his role well. Zealous Christians do not care about derision, they care about souls. Jesus' "great commission" states: "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." Best wishes, Greg Bilbruck old school agnostic newbie Christian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 19:18:33 -0600 From: "Greg Bilbruck" Subject: RE: IN> A question for you > >>>Sniping at the Soldier of God's IQ? His writing skills were > more indicative of his zealousness than his intelligence... > unless you are claiming that his views are wrong.<<< > > > Well, since I am an atheist, obviously I do think he's wrong, but my > comment was referring to the nonsensical and inane manner in which he > expressed his views, and the thoughtless manner in which he spammed the > list with them. > > -David > Ahh.... my mistake, then. I would have sworn that a few weeks ago you had described yourself as a "weak atheist" and that you defined weak atheism as not knowing enough information about the existence of God to take a firm stance on the matter. Your definition of a "weak atheist" is what I would call an agnostic... or a fence-rider. I was agnostic for most of my adult life. As a "weak atheist", your comments about his message content being wrong would have conflicted with your beliefs and you would have had to redefine yourself as either: a strong atheist (which you seem to do in your quoted message) ... or... you *could* define yourself as a weak atheist with beliefs that God couldn't possibly be the Christian God (but this would be an illogical stance for a fence-rider to take). The most-logical stance that a fence-rider should take about a specific religion would be a somewhat less-harsh stance (example: You could have said, "I think that Christianity is wrong, but I'm not sure because I don't know who God is."). About your assessment of the Spammer of God's "nonsensical and inane manner in which he expressed his views, and the thoughtless manner in which he spammed the list with them."... you should read my "Spammer of God" reply to Elizabeth's message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 19:11:52 -0600 From: "David Rodemaker" Subject: Re: IN> InNomine question > Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > > We did? I thought it was semi-canon, and had flaws, IIRC. Actually, > > the contest of Role vs. Resonance may be a more elegant mechanic for > > it that doesn't have the flaws of the CD stuff. (At the least, it's > > an option I hadn't thought about at the time!) I have to think about > > it for 2/e. O:> > >John wrote: > > Actually, what may be thought of as a flaw I rather like. > A Role/6 should be an _impressive_ thing and it makes them more > valuable (especially with all those darn Mercurians wandering > around). > Sorry to quote so much of this... Are we talking a contested roll here or merely a "CD exceeds..."? If contested what would the stat be? Role + Wil? Role + Corporeal Forces? I hate the thought of adding more dice rolls to the game. Beside's, if you ahve to start rolling dice that would be the first clue that something is up. Perhaps we could go for a "CD meets or exceeds the level of the Role..." Still nice and powerful for the Role but without making a Role/6 darn near the equiv. of the semi-dreaded Humanity attunment. David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 22:53:20 -0500 (EST) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> InNomine question On Tue, 11 Jan 2000, David Rodemaker wrote: > > Actually, what may be thought of as a flaw I rather like. > > A Role/6 should be an _impressive_ thing and it makes them more > > valuable (especially with all those darn Mercurians wandering > > around). > > If contested what would the stat be? Role + Wil? Role + Corporeal Forces? I > hate the thought of adding more dice rolls to the game. Beside's, if you > ahve to start rolling dice that would be the first clue that something is > up. Perhaps we could go for a "CD meets or exceeds the level of the Role..." > Still nice and powerful for the Role but without making a Role/6 darn near > the equiv. of the semi-dreaded Humanity attunment. I agree with this. The "contest" idea is kludgey and would alert the player that something's wrong. On the other hand, a Role/6 shouldn't be impregnable. The "meets or exceeds" rule would be, IMO, the optimal combination of appropriateness, simplicity, and effectiveness. It still makes a Role/6 pretty powerful, but if the Merc just touches the person (+2 to CD IIRC), then it gives him a 50/50 chance of penetrating the Role completely! Not bad at all.... - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! "OH you otten nichel I otten a currency from ten cent of dollar / I grad AT otten AT sap ya but I not otten time" -- (Beginning of Devo's "Wiggly World", run through Babelfish twice) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 19:52:42 PST From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> Malakim resonances on redeemed Well, there was my PC, a Malakite of War, and there was this newly redeemed and still dissonant Cherub of War. Michael told me, "Keep an eye on him." So I did. Then he disappeared for about two days and returned with no satisfactory explanation ... so I resonated him. Right at the top of "most honorable things he had done" was "REDEEMED." (The "least honorable things" were all scuzzy demon-type stuff that I already knew, and none of them were recent.) The GM said, as an aside, that it would take a lot of time and some serious accomplishments before anything else would nudge "REDEEMED" out of first place as "most honorable deed" for a redeemed celestial. (What was he up to in those two days? He was hiding the person he was attuned to in a safe place. He wasn't used to trusting other celestials yet, so he didn't want *anyone* to know where the attuned person was ...) Janet Anderson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 04:52:50 EST From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> InNomine question In a message dated 1/11/00 8:08:28 PM Central Standard Time, dar@horusinc.com writes: << Still nice and powerful for the Role but without making a Role/6 darn near the equiv. of the semi-dreaded Humanity attunment. >> Not at all. The high-role angel still has to be careful. He will disturb the Symphony by his actions, and will create no disturbance if pimp-slapped by another angel. Reverend Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 04:34:30 -0600 From: Shadowstar Subject: IN> Ofanim Rock! So I was running my angelic campaign last night. . . After successfully car-jacking a mob accountant, I asked the Ofanite in the group to make two resonance rolls and a driving skill roll (1st Resonance roll was for finding the quickest route; 2nd Resonance roll was to boost her driving skill roll). (Her Perception is 11, and her Driving Skill TN is 7) 1st Resonance Roll - 1, 2 CHECK: 6 2nd Resonance Roll - 2, 6 CHECK: 6 Driving Skill Roll - 1, 6 CHECK: 5 Therefore, Ofanim Rock! (Now I'm just waiting for 666 to come up a LOT now because of it. . . O};;;>) Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centurytel.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://home.centurytel.net/shdwstar/in-nomine/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 04:22:47 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Dykes Subject: IN> Journalist Soldiers I'm starting to flesh out my campaign, which will be centered around a bunch of humans working for the NY bureau of the Weekly World News. It'll be a bait and switch campaign, starting out as GURPS Tabloid, then eventually being revealed as GURPS IN. They're going to be used as an intelligence unit. I've got the core supporting cast close to done. They'll be directly working for a Mercurian of the Sword, and he may or may not have a creationer or Jeanite buddy to provide some potentially necessary toys, such as film that would capture a a celestial's celestial even if the picture is taken on the corporeal plane. Litheroy doesn't know about this, and wouldn't be pleased if he did. However, the angel of Tabloids (Malakite of Revelation) has an extensive NYC operation, and will find out about this shortly. Mainly because they're in NYC, and also because he keeps a close eye on the supermarket tabs, a magnificent Nybassin money horse. The angel of Tabloids works closely with the angel of Journalism (a seraph of Revelation), who may or may not make an appearance. I have a couple of adventure seeds in my head...doing an interview/background investigation in the demon bishop adventure in Superiors 1, and the revelation adventure, where all will be revealed, will involve the characters offered a deal by a Lilim (of the media maybe?), while the aforementioned angel of Tabloids tries to get there first. I'm also going to go over No Dinero. I can likely adapt something out of there. A story on skinheads who claim they have the Spear of Longinus maybe? (the WWN's target market doesn't respond to Norse artifacts) So what I'm asking is...any ideas for supporting cast or adventure seeds? What's the address of the IN New York page? The link is broken on the collection page. I'm also browsing seeds there. Feel free to riff of these if you like. I haven't done writeups of the NPCs yet, though... Thanks bkd __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 07:08:47 PST From: "Miles 2 Go" Subject: Re: IN> Journalist Soldiers Greetings, One of the primary characters in my Points of View game is a journalist "soldier". Soldier is in quotes because she became symphonically aware due to her exposure to celestials, and wasn't recruited. She plans to join up, but hasn't decided yet. She's written extensive character diaries that could give you some plot ideas. Try my home page at: http://home1.gte.net/wilbanks/pov/pov.htm I like your concept. It has quite a few opportunities. You might even be able to mislead the party to thinking they are researching aliens/horror/etc. and even that their employer is one. I've made extensive use of the Greys - ethereals that pretend to be space aliens as misdirection. Of course my players knew they were playing In Nomine so it wasn't as effective. If you toss in a few mummies which look like illuminati - long lived controlling from behind the scenes, a few vampires, and a few ethereals, you can have the party poking around for quite a bit before they figure out that they are dealing with celestials. You can even have angelic opposition. Have them discover some Vaputech, and then have Jean's MiB - that's Malakim in Black, show up to question them and cover things up. Also if you're players are unaware it would be dissonant for a Jeanite to let heavenly technology fall into their hand. Jean would probably rake one of his servitors over the coals if they let a camera that could photograph celestial forms fall into human hands. It could blow the cover off the whole war. If you really like the idea, just don't have a Jeanite give it to them. Have the Jeanites trying to get it back. The New York webpage is done by David Edelstein. Find it at: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/AmadanSJG/Innomine.htm Good Luck, Tim ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1490 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.