From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Jan 24 23:16:49 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA28576 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:16:49 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id XAA28961 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:14:47 -0600 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:14:47 -0600 Message-Id: <200001250514.XAA28961@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1508 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, January 24 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1508 In this digest: IN> Aztec info Re: IN> Uriel and the Grigori Re: IN> Lilim are Demons Re: IN> Lilim are Demons Re: IN> Earthy Seraphic Names IN> Fwd: [Artifact] Blade of Contrition Re: IN> Lilim are Demons Fwd: RE: Fwd: IN> Tyche, Angel of Unexpected Pregnancy Fwd: RE: IN> Uriel and the Grigori IN> Fwd: Re: Continuum IN> [ADMIN] Patience... Re: IN> Uriel and the Grigori IN> Tyche, Angel of Unexpected Pregnancy Re: IN> [ADMIN] Patience... IN> Tyche (additional thoughts) Re: IN> Superiors 2 and 3 Re: IN> Seraphic Troubles Re: IN> Lilim are Demons IN> Heartbreaking (Re: Casting out the Grigori) Re: IN> Fledging Re: IN> Fledging Re: IN> Fledging Re: IN> Fledging Re: IN> [ADMIN] Patience... IN> Seraph in trouble Re: IN> Lilim are Demons Re: IN> Superiors 2 and 3 Re: IN> Lilim are Demons IN> Players and GMS? Re: IN> Lilim are Demons Re: IN> Lilim are Demons Re: IN> Players and GMS? Re: IN> Players and GMS? Re: IN> Players and GMS? Re: IN> Players and GMS? Re: IN> Lilim are Demons Re: IN> Lilim are Demons RE: IN> Lilim are Demons ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:06:28 +0000 From: Julian Breen Subject: IN> Aztec info Has anybody out there done anything with the Aztec pantheon? I'd be interested in taking a look. - -- Julian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:52:43 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Uriel and the Grigori David Edelstein wrote: > But they can be punished en masse, just as the firstborn of Egypt > were. Just for the record, I suspect that the death of the firstborn was not viewed as a punishment of the firstborn themselves, but of their families. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:27:35 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Lilim are Demons At 16:41 -0500 1/21/00, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Walter Milliken wrote: > >> And it may be the case that the Lilim DP could make *one* new Lilim >> -- by contributing her own "Lilim Force". But then she'd no longer >> be a Lilim.... > >What would she be then? Would she fall apart, or turn into a >very large imp with a Word? I think she'd instantly fledge as something else -- most probably an Impudite. Or she might simply dissolve... it depends on whether the other Forces were somehow bound together by the "Lilim Force". Another note on the "Lilim DP" issue -- it seems likely that Lilith herself is unsure whether her Daughters could create Lilim. Otherwise, how do you explain the fact that Lilim who seem to be getting close to Superior status tend to have *very* bad luck...? I.e., none of them make it to DP status. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:03:48 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Lilim are Demons At 11:27 AM -0500 1/24/00, Walter Milliken wrote: > >I think she'd instantly fledge as something else -- most probably an >Impudite. Or she might simply dissolve... it depends on whether the other >Forces were somehow bound together by the "Lilim Force". You know, I like the idea of the Lilim Force. However, I don't like the idea of there being an Achilles Heel that instantly "unLilims" a Lilim. After Lilith internalizes that one Force, makes it the Lilim Force and binds it to the other Forces, it acts as the Dominant Force (to get Celestially Genetic for a second). However, I say that as the Lilim is formed in Lilith's hands, all the other Forces are tailored around and by the Lilim Force, so that ultimately the Lilim is 100% Lilim, and no one Force will cause that to instantly collapse and make her an Impudite. The Lilim Force becomes the catalyst, not the controller. I just see it as problematic, otherwise. >Another note on the "Lilim DP" issue -- it seems likely that Lilith herself >is unsure whether her Daughters could create Lilim. Otherwise, how do you >explain the fact that Lilim who seem to be getting close to Superior status >tend to have *very* bad luck...? I.e., none of them make it to DP status. That's not Canon, is it? I know a number of games with Lilim Superiors. Heck, we've got one in my homegrown Campaign. I believe Lilim Superiors can't create Lilim -- they're mules. When they learn to assemble Forces, they don't learn Lilith's trick of internalizing/tainting a Force -- and couldn't use it if they *did* know it. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:15:27 -0000 From: "Laurent" Subject: Re: IN> Earthy Seraphic Names > Getting a bit off topic but there was a case somewhere round there > where the government forced a couple to change thier child's "name". > His given name was 80 characters long or so and contained symbols > and no vowels. A similar story: a few years ago, a french couple had a daughter and they called her Megane (sounds good in French). The family name was Renault. Three or 4 years later, the French automobile company RENAULT creates the MEGANE model. The company sued the couple for copyright violation and requested the baby's name to be changed... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:56:51 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Fwd: [Artifact] Blade of Contrition >From: Neel Krishnaswami >Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:09:02 -0500 (EST) >Subject: [Artifact] Blade of Contrition >Reply-To: neelk@alum.mit.edu > > >This weapon -- usually a stilleto or dagger, though occasionally >versions in the form of a sword have been made -- is given by Baal >to Servitors high in his favor. > >In combat, they have no special properties; they function as ordinary, >if well-crafted knives. It is only when the owner of a blade of >contrition turns it on him or herself that its special abilities >manifest. When its owner willingly cuts their own flesh with their >own knife, they do Soul hits of damage to themselves. These Soul >hits *can* cause a demon to lose Forces, and if left buried in the >flesh will eventually soul-kill the demon. > >Ownership of one of these knives is a sign that Baal counts the >Servitor's honor as strong enough to trust them with punishing >themselves for failing him, even up to Force-stripping and >self-destruction. Owners of these blades have authority well >beyond their formal status, and are the objects of a mixture of >fear and jealous admiration in the Infernal command structure. > >Knives of contrition that were used as suicide weapons lose their >potency as artifacts, but their thirst for blood continues unabated: >a disproportionate number of used-up knives find their way into the >hands of human owners that use them for 'honorable' vendettas and >revenge killings. > >Destroying one of these weapons is a good way to brighten Laurence's >day: he considers these knives a symbolic desecration of everything he >stands for. > >-- >Neel Krishnaswami >neelk@alum.mit.edu > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:47:00 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Lilim are Demons At 12:03 -0500 1/24/00, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >At 11:27 AM -0500 1/24/00, Walter Milliken wrote: >>Another note on the "Lilim DP" issue -- it seems likely that Lilith herself >>is unsure whether her Daughters could create Lilim. Otherwise, how do you >>explain the fact that Lilim who seem to be getting close to Superior status >>tend to have *very* bad luck...? I.e., none of them make it to DP status. > >That's not Canon, is it? I think it is at leat very close to being canon; I'd thought there was a implication of it in Lilith's expanded writeup, though I'm not sure. > I know a number of games with Lilim >Superiors. Well, in canon, there are none. They're the only Band which has no known Superiors (though I don't believe that's stated explicitly in canon, either). One possible explanation for this is the above -- that Lilith sabotages any of her Daughters who look like they might challenge her position as the only source of Lilim. > I believe >Lilim Superiors can't create Lilim -- they're mules. When they learn >to assemble Forces, they don't learn Lilith's trick of >internalizing/tainting a Force -- and couldn't use it if they *did* >know it. This is certainly the way I work it in my game. The question is, does *Lilith* know this, and believe it? It's hard to prove a negative.... So far, no *normal* DP has managed to produce Lilim, and it's reasonably certain that at least some of them would have tried fairly hard. A Lilim DP would be a lot closer to Lilith's own nature than the other DPs; would Lilith risk the possibility that a Lilim Demon Princess *wouldn't* be able to make Lilim? I don't think so. Lilith's power base is in great part due to her monopoly on producing her Daughters. Much easier to call in a favor now and again, to make sure a high-flying Daughter doesn't become a threat to *her*. With Hell's politics, this probably isn't *too* hard. She wouldn't buck Lucifer directly, if he wanted to make a Lilim into a Princess, obviously; any Lilim being promoted as a new DP by a Prince, though... well, every Prince has plenty of opposition. Same thing applies to Word-petitions, where the Word might be a Superior-grade Word. About the only example in canon I can think of where a Lilim has a potentially Superior-level Word is "Staciel", the Demon of Intrigue. It's probably no coincidence that she works for Asmodeus, who tends to be in opposition to Lilith's nature more than most Princes. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:03:59 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Fwd: RE: Fwd: IN> Tyche, Angel of Unexpected Pregnancy >Reply-To: >From: "Trent" >To: >Subject: RE: Fwd: IN> Tyche, Angel of Unexpected Pregnancy >Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 13:28:24 -0600 > >"I hope she takes some measures to ensure that such couples actually have >the potential to be good parents, despite their desire to remain >childless. Otherwise, this "Oh, you want to have your own life and not >be tied down by kids, huh? Well, I'll show YOU! Bwahahaha!" attitude >smacks more of Dark Humor than the Wind." - David > >Well it all depends on how you view the Wind. One of the first things to >remember about the Wind is that it is an elemental word like Stone, Fire, >and Lightning and as such things like good parents are less relevant than >Change, Solidarity, Cleansing, or Control. As an Ofanite Janus doesn't >really *get* humanity in the same since that Marc does. He marvels at their >facility for continuous change and is appalled by their acceptance of >stagnant systems. He knows all about weather patterns but the patterns of >humanity are very much an enigma to him. So really it wouldn't matter if >they were "good" parents or not or even if they actually had the kid. Janus >just wants them to exhibit the amazingly cool human trait for adaptation. >The side affects are irrelevant. > >In support of this argument look at his Seraphim (sp?) attunement and >consider how a sereph is likely to work. "No, if you were to just leave >your six digit salary and become a wandering bum in the Caribbean I'm nearly >certain all your troubles would go away." Never mind that the poor sob was >responsible for running the local homeless shelter and his leaving would >result in it closing down. In fact to a Janusite that is only a bonus - >more people have to change the way they operate. > >Trent Ofanite of Doubt > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:03:32 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Fwd: RE: IN> Uriel and the Grigori >Reply-To: >From: "Trent" >Subject: RE: IN> Uriel and the Grigori >Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:46:52 -0600 > >"My concept of Uriel most certainly *would* have launched the Purity >Crusade, but that's because of my concept of the creatures of myth as >well. They are creations of human imagination, ans as such are >subordinate to mankind. When they put themselves above humanity (by >posing as gods or by swearing allegiance to those who did), they stepped >outside their appointed bounds. They defiled themselves, and refused to >change. So they were cleansed." - Richard Gant > >Humm... Let's now consider the position of humans and angels with this >logic. The big 7 created and cataloged all of the universe according to the >GMG. There for it is reasonable to extrapolate that they were directly >responsible for the creation of humanity. The set of all the angels who >considered humanity to be less than themselves wound up in conflict with >God. These angels eventually let the rebellion of one third of the Heavenly >Host, and when failing to take heaven by right of arms they were cast into >the most distant realm - Hell - and were transformed into demons. Therefore >by refusing to except what one created as a superior they were damned. Now >consider the ethereal gods who are in a similar position. Was it jealousy or >justice in the purity crusade? You decide. > >Trent Ofanite of Doubt > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:09:02 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Fwd: Re: Continuum >From: neelk@cswcasa.com >Subject: Re: Continuum >Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:27:30 -0500 > >Doctor TOC wrote: >>Subject: Re: IN> Infinity >> >>Caias Brian Ward wrote: >>> >>> You might want to take a look at the "Continuum:roleplaying in the >>> Yet" time travel role playing game. An interesting look on time >>> travel. >> >>Seconded. It's very spiffy indeed. You can get some info at >>http://www.aetherco.com/continuum > >I'll third it; it's a really excellent time travel game. Instead >of establishing lame reasons why stupid-time-travel tricks (like >becoming a millionaire, shooting your grandfather, becoming an >expert in an instant, etc) are impossible, it tackles them head >on. This is good because those stupid-time-travel tricks are >the entire reason it's a fun genre. > >-- >Neel Krishnaswami >neelk@cswcasa.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:13:31 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> [ADMIN] Patience... Okay, the current settings on the approved posters list require me to a p p r o v e any s u b s c r i p t i o n of an address that isn't exactly the same as the address that's requesting the s u b s c r iption. This means that it may take a bit longer than the usual 30 minutes of so to get done. There _is_ a way to let anyone s u b any address without it going through me -- I can muddle around with the c o n f i g file and try to set this; this will mean that theoretically a very clever spammer who wanted to take the time to s u b s c r i b e to the approved-posters list could s u b up that address, and spam from it over a weekend (when I'm not around at all to u n s u b people with addresses like MakeMoneyFast@scam.com). Comments? I'm fairly tempted to automate the s u b s c r i b e command for approved-posters, but it would allow a spammer to abuse it, if they wanted to take the time. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:05:16 -0800 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Uriel and the Grigori Earl Wajenberg wrote: > Just for the record, I suspect that the death of the firstborn was > not viewed as a punishment of the firstborn themselves, but of their > families. True. Same principle, though. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:11:47 -0800 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Tyche, Angel of Unexpected Pregnancy > So really it wouldn't matter if > >they were "good" parents or not or even if they actually had the kid. Janus > >just wants them to exhibit the amazingly cool human trait for adaptation. > >The side affects are irrelevant. I wouldn't go that far, or else you can make the same argument for Janus supporting indiscriminate terrorism and murder. Walk into a McDonald's and gun down everyone in sight? It'll certainly change a lot of lives; the side effects are irrelevant... - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:14:01 -0800 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> [ADMIN] Patience... Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Comments? I'm fairly tempted to automate the s u b s c r i b e command > for approved-posters, but it would allow a spammer to abuse it, if they > wanted to take the time. I'm against it. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:16:53 -0800 (PST) From: David Barr Subject: IN> Tyche (additional thoughts) When i was writing her, I thought about the song of fruition but did not have appropriate Liber with me to check it out and assign it. The other thing i considered giving he was a Destiny attunement (having not the Main book, i forget the name of the one i want, but it allows the user to see if a given action to a person will help lead that person to his / her destiny. (I know that the demonic version is Fated future (appropriate for a Dark Humor version of her, if that is what you want))). Add either or both of these if you think them appropriate to your use of her. As for her counterpart (also drawn from real life events) how about the Demon of Un-Solicited advice? :=) - -daiv ===== reply to my home address -> daiv@cruzio.com haiku prophecy see seventeen syllables into the future - -Daiv __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:12:48 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Superiors 2 and 3 At 1:41 PM +1100 1/23/00, Patrick O'Duffy wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >> Playtester list for 2, as of the draft I have, is... >> >> Robert Busek, Eric Alfred Burns, Jim Cambias, Emily Dresner, **Patrick >> Duffy**, David Edelstein, Ryan Elias, Brook Freeman, Joanna Hart, Owen Kerr, >> J. Michael Neal, Leath Sheales, and David Summers. > > Damn. I was hoping to get a playtest credit. But it's good to know that the >guy who played Bobby Ewing in DALLAS is an IN fan. > > (In other words, I hope that's a typo there, and not the way my name's going >to be printed in the book...) Augh. Congratulations, you're the guy who played Bobby Ewing. (I swear I sent it in correctly, darnit. I swear it! Or, more likely, I just fowarded the authors' "Who Helped Me Most" lists, and someone had the O' clipped off.) *sigh* - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:24:09 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Seraphic Troubles At 2:46 PM -0800 1/23/00, Stephen Gingell wrote: >While on the topic of Seraphim troubles, do only verbal mistruthes >affect thier resonance? APG. O:> No, they can pick up things that they read, at a penalty (see p. 57 of the main book). Myself, I would treat a head-shake of the wrong type (shaking head "no" when the truth is a nod of "yes") as counting for Visual Only with a -3 penalty (possibly made up for by being within a yard of the subject, for a net -2). But that's because Seraphim are eeky scary with their resonance at times anyway. > If a Seraph with a role wants to apply for a >credit card can they send in a form which says their date of birth was >10/7/71? I wouldn't let them do that, myself -- unless they got someone else to fill it out. (It's the sort of thing they should scorn to do anyway, whether dissonant or not. Filling out credit card forms is what Mercurans are for. (Seraphim of Marc don't _need_ to fill out forms... The platinum cards come with the Role and vessel.)) More about Roles and Seraphim is in the Liber Servitorum. >Does the claim that they *have* a birthdate count as a lie, >since neither Angels nor vessels are born (at least not in the sense the >form has in mind)? I'd be more lenient in this regard -- they certainly have a "date of the creation of the vessel" and a "date of creation of the being," and for a very high-Role Seraph, listing a "birthdate" that corresponds to the creation of the vessel is a bit of semantic quibbling that, while they would find it annoying, is probably not dissonant. >If the angel in question is 300 or so years old does >the date given count as a lie (assuming its consistent with all the >other information associated with the role)? Yes and no -- the Seraph should not say things like, "I was born in 1957" when it was created in 1357. If it's clever, it can say, "'57" and hope that people pick the logical first two numbers. O:> It can say "I celebrate my birthday on November seventh" (so long as that's true), and otherwise weasle. >p.s. Does presenting a fake id count as a lie? It depends on how it's done. Just waving it at someone (implying that it's real) is fine -- not all Seraphim are Servitors of Revelation, after all. Saying, "All the information on this card is correct" is getting pretty dubious, if not outright dissonant. Saying, "Here's my ID" is fine. It is, indeed, an ID card possessed by the Seraph... >Can Seraphim get into bars and clubs? Sure! If they're careful. I think there's a lot of stuff about this (Seraphim and IDs and Roles) in the APG and in the digests. I can't remember all of it to summarize. Basically, Seraphim weasle around things like birthdays -- they don't really _like_ doing it, but there are enough ways that are literal truth (or semantic truth) that they don't necessarily court dissonance, any more than they do when they remain silent and let someone come to a totally wrong conclusion about why. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:28:19 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Lilim are Demons At 12:03 PM -0500 1/24/00, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >At 11:27 AM -0500 1/24/00, Walter Milliken wrote: >> >>I think she'd instantly fledge as something else -- most probably an >>Impudite. Or she might simply dissolve... it depends on whether the other >>Forces were somehow bound together by the "Lilim Force". > >You know, I like the idea of the Lilim Force. However, I don't like >the idea of there being an Achilles Heel that instantly "unLilims" a >Lilim. Well, whether it can happen or not, it's certain that there are _rumors_ about it happening. Heh heh heh... >>Another note on the "Lilim DP" issue -- it seems likely that Lilith herself >>is unsure whether her Daughters could create Lilim. Otherwise, how do you >>explain the fact that Lilim who seem to be getting close to Superior status >>tend to have *very* bad luck...? I.e., none of them make it to DP status. > >That's not Canon, is it? I'm not sure if it's canon or proto-canon. But whether it is or not, don't sweat it. Have your own campaigns... O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:29:07 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Heartbreaking (Re: Casting out the Grigori) At 1:06 AM +1100 1/23/00, Azrael wrote: >[...] >> #1: You can't break someone else's Heart (unless you're a Superior who >> is right there) without a powerful McGuffin, just so I don't have to make >> rulings on this. > >You can break your own heart (demons do this when they go Renegade...If they >can). Yup, but not someone else's. >I don't know the meaning of a McGuffin, A McGuffin is a Thing That Does What The Plot Says It Should and/or The Thing That The Characters Chase Around After. In _The Maltese Falcon_, the Falcon itself was the McGuffin that the plot revolved around. In the wonderful story of the Head of Vecna, the Head was the McGuffin. In the Lord of the Rings series, the One Ring was a McGuffin. >nor the importance of one >being powerful, so I may be missing something. But wouldn't anyone be able >to break a heart, if they have access? Nope. You need the Magical Heart-Breaking McGuffin that the plot is going to revolve around. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:28:59 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Fledging At 1:15 AM +1100 1/23/00, Azrael wrote: >The discussion about the make-up of Lilim and Worded Imp/Reliever/Gremlin >guys, has caused me to wonder, Do Word Forces count towards a fledge? Leaving aside the notion of Wording a non-fledged being... I's say no -- Word-Forces don't count against the max of 18 Forces for non-Superiors, so I'd be inclined to say that they don't count for the required "fledging" Forces. (No, I do not want to think about "the Gremlin Prince of [some big Word]"...) Of course, the very idea of having a non-fledged celestial with a Word is such a wonky, "depends on campaign" sort of thing, that this is akin to canon on what the resonance of Bethim would be. Call it my best guess as to what the "physics" of Forces are. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:49:41 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Fledging >Of course, the very idea of having a non-fledged celestial with a Word >is such a wonky, "depends on campaign" sort of thing, that this is akin >to canon on what the resonance of Bethim would be. Call it my best guess >as to what the "physics" of Forces are. I really can see Lucifer giving out a Word to a demonling, not a Superior level Word (unless Lucifer wanted to watch the Gremlin get ecstatic and then realize that the existing DPs were going to eat it alive). I can see there being an Imp of Lost Keys, maybe it will eventually grow into a full demon, maybe not. Maybe having a Word before fleding prevents fledging into a normal Band because of the Word's pull on the holder. The Imp, if it reached fledging level, might be able to use there resonance to make key's simply vanish for some amount of time. Though it would depend on the campaign, mostly because such a minor being and the Word they'd probably get wouldn't figure strongly in (unless they were making a suicidal power play) to most campaigns. They could make interesting background color though, if every petty thing that demonlings did had a Word bound demonling directing it (or a demon with there own Word based Band if they grow large enough). They'd probably get a lot of snickers, but they could be a major irritance (considering that's what they are designed for). Anyway in hell there is probably lots of weird stuff that no one would want to touch with a 10' stick. Heaven is sanatized, logical and might contain mysteries but nothing bizare and twisted. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:59:22 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Fledging Tim Groth wrote: > Heaven is sanatized, logical and might contain > mysteries but nothing bizare and twisted. Oh, I dunno. The Seraphim Council would never do it, but if God, with His ineffable sense of humor, handed the Word of Child Prodigies to a reliever, they'd have to live with it. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:11:38 -0500 From: "Gregory Gietzen" Subject: Re: IN> Fledging - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Groth" > then realize that the existing DPs were going to eat it alive). I can see > there being an Imp of Lost Keys, maybe it will eventually grow into a full How about the Imp of Dryers That Eat One Sock Per Load? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:02:41 -0500 (EST) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> [ADMIN] Patience... On Mon, 24 Jan 2000, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > There _is_ a way to let anyone s u b any address without it going through > me -- I can muddle around with the c o n f i g file and try to set this; > this will mean that theoretically a very clever spammer who wanted to take > the time to s u b s c r i b e to the approved-posters list could s u b up > that address, and spam from it over a weekend (when I'm not around at all > to u n s u b people with addresses like MakeMoneyFast@scam.com). > > Comments? I'm fairly tempted to automate the s u b s c r i b e command > for approved-posters, but it would allow a spammer to abuse it, if they > wanted to take the time. Since most spam is blind - they just mail their message a list of X addresses they've collected or bought - I don't think automation would be a problem. If a spammer tries to spam this list, and it bounces, they're not going to go through the trouble of becoming an approved poster; they're just going to give up. No spammer WANTS to "Spam the IN List". They just want to spam EVERYBODY, and whoever bounces, bounces. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! And finally, a special message to \|/ ____ \|/ anyone who thinks I give a damn... ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:37:10 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: IN> Seraph in trouble A Seraph IMC just got hooked with a Geas-4 by a Lilim of the Game. The Seraph works for Revelation; the Lil offered to trade information, and the Seraph's resonance showed that she would give something both useful and really *interesting*. And, of course, she was selflessly helping the rest of the party... Now I'm tossing around ideas on how to use this. The Game-Lil is a thoroughly nasty piece of work. A Geas-4 won't allow her to make the Seraph do anything *too* horrible, so some creativity is required... My first thought is that the Lil might want her to sit in on some Game interrogations -- of potential renegades, Soldiers, whatever. This would be handy for the Game, yet very unpleasant for the Seraph... especially if the folks being interrogated are going to be damned or destroyed if they can't fool the Game. But since it doesn't put the Seraph in any physical danger, or at risk of Dissonance, I think it's completely suitable under a Geas-4. Any other thoughts? Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:30:09 -0600 From: "David Rodemaker" Subject: Re: IN> Lilim are Demons > >That's not Canon, is it? > > I'm not sure if it's canon or proto-canon. But whether it is or not, > don't sweat it. Have your own campaigns... O:> A great Ray of Light descends from the Highest Heavens to illume the bowed head of the most gracious Line Editor upon speaking such great words of Wisdom... As an aside how many IN GM's do we have on the list and how many Players? By this I mean how many are actually performing those roles at this general time? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:44:53 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Superiors 2 and 3 > Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:49:59 -0500 > From: Whistling in the Dark > > Subject: Re: IN> Superiors 2 and 3 > [The next day, Blandine gets out of bed and wanders > into the > bathroom. The shower is running. She pulls the > shower curtain > aside, and there is Beleth, smiling. "So... it was > all a dream," she > says, wonder and relief in her eyes.] > > > - -- > Eric Alfred Burns Eric, I am just going to ask you first whenever I need a motivation for a Heretic Superior from now on. :) Morgan, F.A.W. Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of Attribution __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:54:24 -0800 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Lilim are Demons David Rodemaker wrote: > As an aside how many IN GM's do we have on the list and how many Players? By> this I mean how many are actually performing those roles at this general> time? Both. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 20:01:19 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: IN> Players and GMS? From: "David Rodemaker" > > As an aside how many IN GM's do we have on the list and how many Players? By > this I mean how many are actually performing those roles at this general > time? Not currently running a game, but I am playing in one. And making the GM wonder if giving me a Malakite of Creation was a bad idea or not. :::) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:02:24 +1100 From: "Azrael" Subject: Re: IN> Lilim are Demons - ----- Original Message ----- From: David Edelstein To: Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 2:54 PM Subject: Re: IN> Lilim are Demons > David Rodemaker wrote: > > As an aside how many IN GM's do we have on the list and how many Players? By> this I mean how many are actually performing those roles at this general> time? At the moment neither. I just read, the material participate in dicussions etc... Not that I want to participate in any actually role-playing, really...I mean it....I dont care......*sigh* Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:00:13 +1100 From: "Azrael" Subject: Re: IN> Lilim are Demons > David Rodemaker wrote: > > As an aside how many IN GM's do we have on the list and how many Players? By> this I mean how many are actually performing those roles at this general> time? > > Both. > > -David Diito Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 20:29:42 -0800 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Players and GMS? Prodigal wrote: > And making the GM wonder if giving me a Malakite of Creation was a bad idea> or not. :::) Piker. It takes a Kyriotate of Destiny in service to Jean to *really* give the GM headaches. ;) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 20:33:57 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Players and GMS? From: "David Edelstein" > Prodigal wrote: > > And making the GM wonder if giving me a Malakite of Creation was a bad idea> or not. :::) > > Piker. It takes a Kyriotate of Destiny in service to Jean to *really* > give the GM headaches. ;) I don't know about that... When I informed the GM that my character carried an enormous purse, the sound of teeth grinding was almost deafening. ;;;) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:49:45 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Players and GMS? >From: "David Edelstein" > > >> Prodigal wrote: >> > And making the GM wonder if giving me a Malakite of Creation was a bad >idea> or not. :::) >> >> Piker. It takes a Kyriotate of Destiny in service to Jean to *really* >> give the GM headaches. ;) I've always found that Ofanim with the Malakite of Creation attunement bother GMs (especially when you decide to use yourself as the improvised weapon). Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:18:33 PST From: "Miles 2 Go" Subject: Re: IN> Players and GMS? >Prodigal wrote: > > And making the GM wonder if giving me a Malakite of Creation was a bad >idea> or not. :::) > >Piker. It takes a Kyriotate of Destiny in service to Jean to *really* >give the GM headaches. ;) > >-David Oh, and least we forget your Kyriotate also has Yves' Library Card attunement. Grumble. Warning, people who write the rules usually know where the best loopholes are. At least you don't have Jean's attunement yet. In case you can't tell I GM, but don't play. Tim ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:31:02 -0600 From: "Michael Neal" Subject: Re: IN> Lilim are Demons - ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Edelstein" To: Sent: Monday, January 24, 2000 9:54 PM Subject: Re: IN> Lilim are Demons > David Rodemaker wrote: > > As an aside how many IN GM's do we have on the list and how many Players? By> this I mean how many are actually performing those roles at this general> time? > > Both. > > -David That's okay; David saying both means the two of us cancel out. Unless the PBEM GM I haven't heard from in a month gets back to me, I'm neither. J. Michael Neal ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:35:32 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Lilim are Demons GM. The present campaign is off to a lively start. Ran 'em through _Feast of Blades_, in which they came up with a novel solution to the problem of Gebbeleth (get him into a Tether and let the Light of Heaven finish the job it started oh so long ago). Am presently running them through a combination of _No Dinero_ and an adventure of my own creation called "The Demon of New York City". The Demon went missing in 1983 (haven't you noticed how *nice* the city has been gradually getting?). But someone -- or something -- seems to be moving on his old Word. Wait, how's *that* possible... Next up (assuming they survive... they've got a trigger-happy War Mal, a Bright who just got nailed with a Geas-6 to a Baron of her former boss, and a Seraph of Revelation who _just can't keep her mouth shut_) would be _Night Music_, I think. They've already met Furfur, at a very memorable open air concert in Greenwich Village... Anyhow, GM. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:14:05 +1100 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: RE: IN> Lilim are Demons Tim wrote: >This is my bit, it was in the IMC section of the post. >Its the way I >explain why no Prince has Lilim, or at least why none > >has any idea how >there constructed because Vapula would definetly try > >disecting them. IMO, even Vapula disecting them wouldn't make an ounce of difference. Picture this, thousands of years ago in Hell: Vapula (To assembled DPs): Hurrah! I've discovered the formula for making Lilim. (Other Princes grin evilly. They collectively look at Lilith, murder in their eyes. Lilith merely smiles and shrugs). Andrealphus: So, what's the formula? Vapula: What? Oh sorry, I was thinking about a new kind of force catcher. The ingredients are simple. Simply take eight Forces, mix them together, and then one of Lilith's Forces. Incubate them inside Lilith until she imparts her nature into them, and presto, a Lilim! Collected DPS: That's it? That's useless. Lilith (laughs lightly and turns to walk away): If anyone wants to make a deal for any more Lilim, give me a call... However, the price has gone up... Dissecting something rarely tells you how the magic works. Leath. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1508 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.