From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Jan 25 23:33:41 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA20023 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:33:41 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id XAA07219 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:28:46 -0600 Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:28:46 -0600 Message-Id: <200001260528.XAA07219@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1510 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, January 25 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1510 In this digest: Re: IN> Lilim are Demons Re: IN> Lilim are Demons IN> Lest I be too obscure Re: IN> intro, and starting out Fwd: Re: IN> Infinity Fwd: RE: IN> Seraph in trouble Fwd: RE: IN> Tyche, Angel of Unexpected Pregnancy Fwd: Re: IN> Lilim are Demons Fwd: Re: IN> Lilim are Demons RE: IN> Lilim are Demons IN> Sesame Street (RE: Lilim are Demons) Re: IN> Sesame Street (RE: Lilim are Demons) Re: IN> Sesame Street (RE: Lilim are Demons) IN> A new Demonic Band -- Hamsters Re: IN> Sesame Street (RE: Lilim are Demons) Re: IN> Sesame Street (RE: Lilim are Demons) Re: IN> Sesame Street (RE: Lilim are Demons) Re: IN> Seraph in trouble Re: IN> Sesame Street (RE: Lilim are Demons) Re: IN> Players and GMS? Re: IN> Will Moore's Law Redeem Vapula? RE: IN> Sesame Street (RE: Lilim are Demons) Re: IN> Players and GMS? Re: Fwd: Re: IN> Lilim are Demons Re: Fwd: Re: IN> Lilim are Demons Re: IN> intro, and starting out Re: IN> intro, and starting out Re: IN> Lilim are Demons Re: Fwd: RE: IN> Seraph in trouble IN> Song of Fruition Re: IN> Song of Fruition ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:22:27 -0500 From: "Gregory Gietzen" Subject: Re: IN> Lilim are Demons - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Groth" > Archangel status. Its definetly better than Barny and the teletubbies, > which are filthy ploys of Nybbas to get child viewers addicted to > television that does nothing for them early. That's where you're wrong, my friend. The Teletubbies are a purely secular ploy, on behalf of the Illuminati, to help them indoctrinate people to their One World Government (or New World Order, if you prefer). Think about it -- four creatures, inhabiting an underground cave, all of whom do exactly what they're told in the order they are told to do it, and all the while, a baby's face in the sun ("little" Big Brother) watches their every move. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 11:41:44 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> Lilim are Demons > David Rodemaker wrote: > > As an aside how many IN GM's do we have on the list and how many Players? By> this I mean how many are actually performing those roles at this general> time? GM, although we haven't done a game since last year due to vacations. And I've been a player once. ;-) > -David Ben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:43:52 -0800 (PST) From: David Barr Subject: IN> Lest I be too obscure In a recent post, I made mention of real life events leading me to writing up a Demon of Unsolicited Advice (probably a Shedite in service to Malphas, yes?). It occured to me last night that there was some room for misunderstanding to the point of Troll Baiting. This was not my intent. In posting Tyche (Offanite Angel of Unexpected Pregnancy) I was soliciting advice, and got some that i appreciate. My comment about unsolicited advice demon was inspired by the experience of telling people that my wife is pregnant, and thereafter spending the next several minutes listening to opinions about having and raising children. The assumption seems to be that we are totally unprepared for this event (we are, of course, but that is not the point). however much this occurs, in real life (an ihave got to assume this is not unique to us, right?), the IN list has been very good about this. It seems to be a largely understood rule on the list, for the most part. We get into one anothers games, we stay out of one anothers lives (except such that we choose to invite specific individuals, of course). So, friends of the list, I thank you for that, and i apologize for any misuderstaning that occurred. Who would the angel of covering your ass serve? Revelation or Destiny? maybe politeness , (listed as a Major word bound in Superiors 1, under the Sword, iirc). - -Daiv ===== reply to my home address -> daiv@cruzio.com haiku prophecy see seventeen syllables into the future - -Daiv __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:25:41 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> intro, and starting out At 12:02 PM -0500 1/25/00, N.M. Wallace wrote: >After a panel at Arisia, I've decided that I want to run an In Nomine >campaign. I know that it's going to be angelic, so I figure I'll pick up a >copy of the Celestial Players Guide, and the GM Guide. Anything else I >need? (And would this have been one of the panels I was so happily trying to sell IN on...? O;> ) Let's see. The main book. The GMG. The Angelic Player's Guide for angelic campaigns (though, I admit, if you can get it cheap it becomes more useful -- I especially suggest ignoring the additional check digit tables for various reasons including that you're going to be doing check digit table searching enough with just the ones in the main book). If you have characters serving David, Dominic, Laurence, or Michael, you may find that Superiors 1 is well worth the investment. (Or if you plan to have major NPCs serving those four.) It also has a selection of adventure seeds designed to showcase those four's Servitors. (Forthcoming is Superiors 2 (Andre, Haagenti, Kobal, Nybbas), currently at the printer's, and Superiors 3 (Blandine, Gabriel, Khalid, Yves), currently in final edits. Superiors 4 ought to be going to playtest soon, and that's a good reason for me to plug Pyramid subscriptions! $15 a year, and you get to playtest (which can earn you a free book if your comments are useful enough, making up for the cost!).) One book that your players will probably adore is the Liber Canticorum -- aka the Songbook. This has the Songs from the main book (updated when necessary) to ease book-swapping, as well as a whole trove of new Songs, including secret ones, ones that can only be used by certain Choirs/Bands, and ones believed lost. The Liber Reliquarum (the relics book) is also a fun little thing that you can wave in front of your players and get them to buy stuff besides new Forces with their points. If you're going to be doing a lot with Tethers, as a GM, the Liber Castellorum is useful. (It's also the first book I edited, and it wasn't even a Book from Hell.) If you find yourself in a bind for NPCs, or want to hand your players some pre-generated characters, the Liber Servitorum is good. It also has a nice, useful expansion for Roles, and a larger, also useful expansion for Servants. There's also a couple of pages with sample Good Deeds, Dishonorable Deeds, Fates, Destinies, and Needs -- for when you have Malakim and Destiny Servitors wandering around resonating everything that moves. My favorite adventure is Feast of Blades, in the GM Pack (also known as the GM's screen). The GM screen itself isn't as useful as it could be, since what it really needs is a summary of the check digit tables... (I arranged all the CD tables on one sheet of paper, typing them in by hand, and my spouse folds over the top of the sheet to hang it over the middle panel of the GM screen when he uses it.) The Revelation Cycle is.... Well, I wasn't the Line Editor for most of it, and pretty much all of it was "set" by the time I got the post. So it's Not My Fault. The ones most likely to be useful are _Heaven & Hell_ and _The Marches_, in that order. I'd suggest checking out eBay auctions to see if you can pick up those cheap. You Are Here is a book full of locations for "color" (in Heaven, Hell, Earth, and the Marches) and adventure seeds that go with them. If you're short of ideas or don't think your own inventions of "color" are up to snuff, this could come in handy. The Corporeal Player's Guide is vital if you have human PCs, and probably very useful if you have major human NPCs. I think I've run through all the books now... I can't help it! I'm conditioned to say "What books do you need? All of them!!" However, hopefuly the summaries here (and in other posts, undoubtedly) will help you decide which ones _you_ actually want. O:> Oh, more useful resources: www.sjgames.com/in-nomine has sample pages and paragraphs of most of the books, as well as the all-important errata pages (www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/errata)! Heck, you can probably glean useful details simply from the errata, from time to time. Also useful is www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles -- that's the "In Nomine Collection" (or INC, for short), a bunch of unofficial stuff that I was managing for a while, and dragged over to the sjgames site when I got the LE job... Also, one of the fairly popular on-line campaigns is Maya's Fiat Justitia (http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~maya/nomine/fiat.html). It's not all canon, but it does give some fairly good ideas for feel and ways to interpret things like Interventions, resonances, and Superior appearances. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:27:58 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Fwd: Re: IN> Infinity >From: neelk@cswcasa.com >Received: by petrified.cswv.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) >Subject: Re: IN> Infinity >Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:05:30 -0500 > >"Liam Astley" wrote: >> >>From: Neel Krishnaswami >>> Mary Gentle's _Rats and Gargoyles_ is (among many other things) >>> about exactly that. The 36 gods of the setting are all omniscient >>> and omnipotent. >> >>but how can you be "all-powerful" if there are other people as powerful as >>you? to be all-powerful, you'd have to have power over them. but if they >>were equal to you, they'd have power over you as well. so you wouldn't be >>*all* powerful maybe just "hyperpotent" or something :) > >That's something the protagonists wonder about, too. :) > >>p.s. that said, it sounds like an interesting book. what's it about? > >It's a really excellent fantasy. > >Roughly, it's about architecture, alchemy, and stuff. "Stuff" includes >the Rat Lords who rule the city at the heart of the world, the humans >they have enslaved, and the frustratingly enigmatic Decans, the >god-demon-gargoyles who stand above it all, and no less than 4 (!) >plots to change the fundamental nature of reality. > >It's deeply weird, and extremely good. >-- >Neel Krishnaswami >neelk@cswcasa.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:28:38 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Fwd: RE: IN> Seraph in trouble >Reply-To: >From: "Trent" >Subject: RE: IN> Seraph in trouble >Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:18:29 -0600 > >> Any other thoughts? > > Well if the Lilim has a nefarious plot of it's own going on then getting a >Seraph to help with that diabolical plot is always fun. This would depend a >great deal on you campaign. Betrayal of friends is also a fun thing for >geised seraph to do. Be aware that you also have a McGuffin on your side >with the geis for those times when your PCs wander off in to the far Marches >while all the action happens at the Two Towers. > >Fathering/Mothering the Lilim's child could also be entertaining. Also good >if the Lilim is just being spiteful is to have the poor Seraph publicly aid >a plot of Secrets. Not that the interrogation idea isn't a very good one. > >Trent Ofanite of Doubt > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:29:39 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Fwd: RE: IN> Tyche, Angel of Unexpected Pregnancy >Reply-To: >From: "Trent" >Subject: RE: IN> Tyche, Angel of Unexpected Pregnancy >Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 01:24:17 -0600 > >"I wouldn't go that far, or else you can make the same argument for Janus >supporting indiscriminate terrorism and murder. Walk into a McDonald's >and gun down everyone in sight? It'll certainly change a lot of lives; >the side effects are irrelevant..." - David > >I would. Does anyone doubt the ability of a Malk of Gabby to do just that >to a McDonald's full of Cruel people? Besides the disturbance would be >ungodly, and sure to bring a Triad of Judgment down on the Windie and just >isn't kosher in today's cold war of heaven and hell. On a side note I was >cool with Khalid being the AA of Ragheaded Terrorists (I just didn't like >his lack of objectivity toward other faiths). > >Trent Ofanite of Doubt > - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:29:14 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Fwd: Re: IN> Lilim are Demons >Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:30:59 -0500 >From: Whistling in the Dark >Subject: Re: IN> Lilim are Demons > >At 10:31 PM -0600 1/24/00, Michael Neal wrote: >> >> > Both. >> > >> > -David >> >>That's okay; David saying both means the two of us cancel out. Unless the >>PBEM GM I haven't heard from in a month gets back to me, I'm neither. >> >>J. Michael Neal > >Then let me kick the balance off again. Both. > > >-- >Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a >in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of >http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. >http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:30:13 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Fwd: Re: IN> Lilim are Demons >From: neelk@cswcasa.com >Subject: Re: IN> Lilim are Demons >Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 08:15:07 -0500 > >Walter Milliken wrote: >>At 12:03 -0500 1/24/00, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >> >>>I know a number of games with Lilim Superiors. >> >>Well, in canon, there are none. They're the only Band which has >>no known Superiors (though I don't believe that's stated explicitly >>in canon, either). > >The Pachadim. > >>One possible explanation for this is the above -- that Lilith >>sabotages any of her Daughters who look like they might challenge >>her position as the only source of Lilim. > >I like this, if only because it blackwashes Lilith a bit, which >is imo desperately needed. > >-- >Neel Krishnaswami >neelk@cswcasa.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 11:34:59 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: RE: IN> Lilim are Demons >Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 11:04:50 -0700 >From: Tim Groth Subject: >RE: IN> Lilim are Demons > > >Sesame Street is probably the triumph that got >Christopher promoted to Archangel status. Its >definetly better than Barny and the teletubbies, >which are filthy ploys of Nybbas to get child viewers >addicted to television that does nothing for them >early. But ... but ... but ... (Oh, I'm about to die ...) Cookie Monster's a Servitor of Gluttony! A Soldier, at the very least. :) Morgan, F.A.W. Kyritotate of Destiny who really wishes he had the Master of Divine Knowedge (Ofanite) Distinction right now ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 15:31:16 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Sesame Street (RE: Lilim are Demons) At 11:34 AM -0800 1/25/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >>From: Tim Groth Subject: >>Sesame Street is probably the triumph that got >>Christopher promoted to Archangel status. [...] > >But ... but ... but ... >(Oh, I'm about to die ...) >Cookie Monster's a Servitor of Gluttony! A Soldier, >at the very least. :) What about Oscar the Grouch? (He lived in a trash can, had an acerbic sense of humor, and was my _ROLE MODEL_ when I was a kid! My favorite character. Totally. Hm. And green. Weird.) Is there a Prince of Grubbiness? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 15:36:42 -0500 (EST) From: anthoch@earlham.edu Subject: Re: IN> Sesame Street (RE: Lilim are Demons) Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > What about Oscar the Grouch? (He lived in >a trash can, had an acerbic sense of humor, and was >my _ROLE MODEL_ when I was a kid! My favorite character. >Totally. Hm. And green. Weird.) Is there a Prince of >Grubbiness? Actually, I'd call Oscar an aspect of Eli. He's not terribly concerned with appearances, he might be grumpy but he's got a heart of gold, and he can pull /anything/ out of that trash can... - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 15:41:49 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Sesame Street (RE: Lilim are Demons) At 3:31 PM -0500 1/25/00, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 11:34 AM -0800 1/25/00, Maurice Lane wrote: > >>From: Tim Groth Subject: > > >>Sesame Street is probably the triumph that got > >>Christopher promoted to Archangel status. [...] > What about Oscar the Grouch? (He lived in >a trash can, had an acerbic sense of humor, and was >my _ROLE MODEL_ when I was a kid! My favorite character. >Totally. Hm. And green. Weird.) Is there a Prince of >Grubbiness? Nah. Seraph of Stone. He bluntly tells you the truth of what he thinks of you, and his words, as caustic as they are, unify those around him into a solid unit by granting them a common foe. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:47:03 -0000 From: "Genevieve Cogman" Subject: IN> A new Demonic Band -- Hamsters (this is Jo Hart's fault as well, and happened on the train back from Paris yesterday) THE DEMON PRINCE OF HAMSTERS And the Angel of Death went to free the hamsters, loosing the tenth plague upon the Egyptians. But Lo! The cages were all empty. And he said, "Oh shit, I'll have to improvise." (verse removed from Exodus during editing) Thousands of years ago, for the crime of running away before he could become the tenth plague of Egypt, a humble hamster was accursed by man and God alike, and cast out into the desert. Slyly and subtly, Lucifer came to speak with the hamster, and offered him power -- if only he would agree, he would become the Demon Prince of Hamsters, with the ability to create countless offspring! The hamster agreed. (And bit Lucifer.) Since then, hamsters have infiltrated Hell . . . Hamsters of Andrealphus : don't ask. Really. Hamsters of Asmodeus : watch from the shadows stealthily, and have the ability to hypnotise outcasts by sitting in their hands and looking cute. Hamsters of Baal : attack! Attack! Attack! Hamsters of Beleth : haunt the edges of horrifying nightmares that involve waking to find one's clothing and house have been chewed to pieces. Hamsters of Belial : burn nicely. Hamsters of Haagenti : nibble and nibble and nibble and nibble and nibble and nibble and nibble and . . . Hamsters of Kobal : we don't know, but he smiled when we tried to ask about it. Hamsters of Kronos : bring mortals to their fate, assuming it involves small furry animals. Hamsters of Lilith : chew holes in cages wherever they find them! Hamsters of Malphas : cause families to argue about who gets to play with the hamster next, and get the Polarise attunement automatically. Hamsters of Nybbas : have a vital part in the manufacture of fur coats for Lilim stars. Hamsters of Saminga : can animate dead hamsters as zombies, and lead hordes of hamster zombies against Tethers of Heaven. Hamsters of Valefor : are very, very good at escaping. Hamsters of Vapula : cyber-hamsters with attitude. Of course, even hamsters can Redeem and serve Heaven! (Though it has been noted that the Archangels involved often seem to have band-aids on their fingers the next day . . .) Hamsters of Blandine : wander sweetly through the dreams of little children. Hamsters of David : attack in packs, silently, by night. Only the bones of the victims are found. Hamsters of Dominic : watch for heresy. A Hamster of Dominic can eat a book containing heretical material in d6-Corp Forces minutes. Hamsters of Eli : inspire creativity, man. As long as it's small and furry. Hamsters of Gabriel : burn with green flame and leap like tiny meteors upon the cruel! Hamsters of Janus : are very, very good at escaping. Hamsters of Jean : are famous for causing delays in projects. ("Well, sir, our power cable appears to have been chewed through . . .") Hamsters of Jordi : eek nibble eek nibble eek. Behold the inherent weakness and edibility of all human constructions! Hamsters of Laurence : make wonderful sword-polishing rags. Hamsters of Marc : come in pin-striped variants and are extremely useful for lulling negotiating opponents with cute little squeaks. Hamsters of Michael : never let go of an enemy's finger once bitten. Hamsters of Novalis : bring happiness to children across the world, and are frequently mugged by all other hamsters for bringing hamsterdom into disrepute through excessive cuteness. Hamsters of Yves : smile a lot. - --- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 12:51:49 -0800 (PST) From: David Barr Subject: Re: IN> Sesame Street (RE: Lilim are Demons) > >>Sesame Street is probably the triumph that got > >>Christopher promoted to Archangel status. [...] > > > >But ... but ... but ... > >(Oh, I'm about to die ...) > >Cookie Monster's a Servitor of Gluttony! A Soldier, > >at the very least. :) > > What about Oscar the Grouch? (He lived in > a trash can, had an acerbic sense of humor, and was > my _ROLE MODEL_ when I was a kid! My favorite character. > Totally. Hm. And green. Weird.) Is there a Prince of > Grubbiness? Oscar the Grouch was Our Beloved Line Editors' and Demon Princess of Nitpicking role model? Does anyone else sense the subtle hand of Fate here? Just a thought. :=) (personally, I was way into Cookie monster, though i still have an Oscar the grouch had puppet somewhere around; older than my wife, is that puppet (it is a very old puppet; but there is a significant age difference in our marriage.)) is this going to evolve (or degenerate) into Muppet -> band/choir and servitors of whom thread? if so, I would like to be the first to Nominate Kermit the frog as a Seraph of Jordi. Just because. And Animal as an Ofanite of Fire (pure unabashed passion; though an argument for calabim of lust could be made, I suppose... ("WO-MAN!! WO-MAN!!") ===== reply to my home address -> daiv@cruzio.com haiku prophecy see seventeen syllables into the future - -Daiv __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:54:30 -0600 From: Kris Overstreet Subject: Re: IN> Sesame Street (RE: Lilim are Demons) > What about Oscar the Grouch? (He lived in >a trash can, had an acerbic sense of humor, and was >my _ROLE MODEL_ when I was a kid! My favorite character. >Totally. Hm. And green. Weird.) Is there a Prince of >Grubbiness? On the contrary, Oscar is a Soldier of Wind. }:-{D Redneck (just how much stuff does he -have- in that can??) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:15:00 PST From: "Erich Arendall" Subject: Re: IN> Sesame Street (RE: Lilim are Demons) >From: David Barr >(personally, I was way into Cookie monster, though i still have an >Oscar the grouch had puppet somewhere around; older than my wife, is >that puppet (it is a very old puppet; but there is a significant age >difference in our marriage.)) >is this going to evolve (or degenerate) into Muppet -> band/choir and >servitors of whom thread? if so, I would like to be the first to >Nominate Kermit the frog as a Seraph of Jordi. Just because. >And Animal as an Ofanite of Fire (pure unabashed passion; though an >argument for calabim of lust could be made, I suppose... ("WO-MAN!! >WO-MAN!!") > I was always a Grover fan, but I can't seem to classify him in In Nomine terms... anyone else want to give it a shot? I see Kermit as a Seraph, but not in service to Jordi - he went to hollywood and was a reporter for Muppet News, after all... Maybe Flowers? Rolf was definitely a Mercurian of Eli, probably in service to the Angel of Music (or Catchy Tunes). Miss Piggy - Malakite of War! :) - -Erich S. Arendall "Shadow Sprite" Impudite of Critical Failures at the Worst Possible Time for Players and the Best Time for GMs, servitor of Kronos - ------------------------- Foaming at the Mouth http://rpg.net/news+reviews/sprite.html Touched by an Impudite http://www.insync.net/~sprite/ - ---------------------------- ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:50:39 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Seraph in trouble At 18:37 -0500 1/24/00, Douglas Muir wrote: >A Seraph IMC just got hooked with a Geas-4 by a Lilim of the Game. ... >Any other thoughts? I would have the Lilim either not use it, or use it for something petty and harmless. After all, this is a *Game* Lilim we're talking about. She should be working on some nice, devious plot to sucker the Seraph in *really* deep somehow. Convincing the Seraph that she's really not all that bad, and that the Seraph shouldn't fear her or her Geases... now *that's* a neat little Game.... After all, Revelations people are just *so* straightforward. Should be easy meat for a good Gamester. Have the Lilim be helpful and cooperative for a while. Maybe she collects a hook every once in a while, and burns it in a really trivial way that doesn't bug the Seraph. Of course, maybe she collects a few hooks she *doesn't* use, too. After all, can the Seraph keep count of how many times she's read the angel's Needs? Then someday down the road, when she needs something *really* nasty done, well.... Or maybe the Lilim's return favors are easy and no problem -- at first. And each one goes just a *little* bit further into that blurry gray area that the angel should really want to stay out of. The *best* thing for her to do is to find some way for the Seraph to start keeping secrets of some sort. Maybe not blowing her cover to the nearest Swordie, for example. After all, she's *really* interested in redemption. (In order to recognize the signs of demons who might be switching sides, but it *is* an interesting topic to her....) Gamesters should think long-term, when they can. They should generally be good actors. Fooling a Seraph isn't easy, but a Gamester should be able to evade the resonance sufficiently well by driving the conversation to topics where the Gamester can tell the truth without harm, and maybe convince the Seraph that they have some common ground. (And there are probably a *few* places where they do.) Get the poor angel thinking that this is a trustworthy demon, and really not all that different from an angel -- "just doing her job, getting the real troublemakers taken care of, keeping them from wrecking up the corporeal realm." It's a tricky line to walk, with the Seraph resonance sometimes picking up motivations for truth or lies; it can be hard for a GM to keep this running without a slipup. But if you can, well.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:51:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Gant Subject: Re: IN> Sesame Street (RE: Lilim are Demons) On Tue, 25 Jan 2000, Erich Arendall wrote: > I was always a Grover fan, but I can't seem to classify him in In Nomine > terms... anyone else want to give it a shot? Ofanite of the Wind. He's hyperkinetic, and chaos ensues around him. He also has the song of Corporeal Movement and two Vessels - one as Grover, and one as SuperGrover. > I see Kermit as a Seraph, but not in service to Jordi - he went to hollywood > and was a reporter for Muppet News, after all... Maybe Flowers? War. He was always up to his green armpits in trouble. But he always stood his ground, never retreated, and always pulled the show out in the end. Oh, and he never left his command hanging - he always bailed them out as well. Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/4656/ The Returners Final Fantasy Role-Playing Game Site: http://returners.simplenet.com/ or http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Matrix/5758/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:53:05 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Players and GMS? At 21:01 -0500 1/24/00, Prodigal wrote: >As an aside how many IN GM's do we have on the list and how many Players? By >this I mean how many are actually performing those roles at this general >time? GM, though my games have been on hiatus for a while, for various reasons. I don't get to play very often, unfortunately. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:11:46 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Will Moore's Law Redeem Vapula? > I was reading the part of the GMG that described Word-Shift (p31), which is > about how changes in the way a Word manifests in the Symphony can change > the Word holder. The example given is, if every flower in the world turned > poisonous, it would have a big effect on Novalis. This example is > immediately dismissed as not being very practical. But it occurred to me > when I read it that there is one Superior who should, by this logic, be > changing very rapidly. Namely, Vapula. We all know how much technology > has changed and improved over the last century, and how the pace of > technological change is still accelerating. So has Vapula also changed and > improved by an approximately equal amount from what he was before? I don't see any reason why he should have improved (other than gained more Word power), just changed. Of course, I view him as rather changable anyway -- he's a Habbalite, and they tend toward major mood swings.... > If so, this might explain a question I've wondered about...namely, just how > creative Vapula really is. According to the core In Nomine book, Vapula > takes credit for a lot of inventions that were actually invented by humans. > But it also says Vapula has gotten very good at experimentation. And he > has technological secrets he can share with human scientists. So is > Vapula-tech a long way ahead of human technology, or isn't it? The way I see it, he's very good at experimenting... but not very selective about his experiments. He'll try things at semi-random, just to see if they work. He probably creates and discards theories at a breakneck pace. But 99.9% of these experiments are totally wonky and hopeless. The remaining 0.1% are all over the map -- he might have a experiment that comes up with a *really effective* steam-powered robot. Which unforunately needs a dozen demons following after it to feed it wood and coal. Or he might invent cold fusion. OK, so it has a few nasty environmental side effects... but who cares? The net result is that sometimes he's got stuff *way* in advance of human tech. But it's mostly the result of accident and/or the Shakespearean monkey approach to R&D. Yes, he's brilliant. But he's also a demon, and therefore deluded. He's more likely to want to remake the universe to fit his own theories, than vice versa. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:19:45 -0600 From: "Trent" Subject: RE: IN> Sesame Street (RE: Lilim are Demons) " What about Oscar the Grouch? (He lived in a trash can, had an acerbic sense of humor, and was my _ROLE MODEL_ when I was a kid! My favorite character. Totally. Hm. And green. Weird.) Is there a Prince of Grubbiness?" No but there is an AA of the Wind. 8) Trent Ofanite of Doubt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:23:39 -0800 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: Re: IN> Players and GMS? I am doing neither role at the moment, largely due to GMing two other games. In the past I have been player of In Nomine more than GM, especially at the excellent In Nomine tournaments at the local conventions. (Gamex, Gateway and OrcCon at LAX) Was that a plug? Maybe, but some of my best In Nomine times have been had at conventions... Sean ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:26:19 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: IN> Lilim are Demons >>Well, in canon, there are none. They're the only Band which has >>no known Superiors (though I don't believe that's stated explicitly >>in canon, either). > >The Pachadim. I should have said, "*major* Band". - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:31:06 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: IN> Lilim are Demons >From: Walter Milliken > > >>Well, in canon, there are none. They're the only Band which has > >>no known Superiors (though I don't believe that's stated explicitly > >>in canon, either). > > > >The Pachadim. > >I should have said, "*major* Band". > Interesting point. Do Lilim really count as a major band? After all, they are all made by one Superior. There aren't as many of them as any of the other bands ... jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:39:58 +1100 From: Chris Rose Subject: Re: IN> intro, and starting out > >My favorite adventure is Feast of Blades, in the GM Pack (also known as the >GM's screen). The GM screen itself isn't as useful as it could be, since >what it really needs is a summary of the check digit tables... (I arranged >all the CD tables on one sheet of paper, typing them in by hand, and my >spouse folds over the top of the sheet to hang it over the middle panel of >the GM screen when he uses it.) Beth : Post it!! PLEASE !!!!!! I've been thinkning of eventually making up a summary of the summary tables in Liber Canticurum, Apg/Ipg (attunements/dissonance conditions), etc .. This would be BRILLIANT !!!! Chris Ofanite of Lightning Angel of Phone Tech Support "Do What Thou Wilt, but Be Cool" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:03:22 -0600 From: "David Rodemaker" Subject: Re: IN> intro, and starting out > "N.M. Wallace" wrote: > >After a panel at Arisia, I've decided that I want to run an In Nomine > >campaign. I know that it's going to be angelic, so I figure I'll pick > up a > >copy of the Celestial Players Guide, and the GM Guide. Anything else I > > >need? If you've GM'ed (or would it be GM'd?) before then get the GM Guide and that is it. The only reason to buy the Angelic Players Guide is to get them all sold so there can be a 2nd Edition. (I really, really, really hate the expanded Res. rules in there...) Let your players buy the Angelic Players Guide. If you want to get a Players Guide get the Corporeal Players Guide much better written and there are no new goofy rules to screw up your game if you're just starting. David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 19:55:30 -0600 From: "David Rodemaker" Subject: Re: IN> Lilim are Demons > My point was that Lilith's trick doesn't have to be self initiated, it can > be duplicated. The logistics of it are trickier, like if you imprison the > holder of the Word of Freedom how long will she survive? My point is/was that how do *know* it can be duplicated? I would say that it actually flies in the face of Canon to say that anyone short of God or mayby Lucifer could make a Lilim. I would say that Eli cannot because his word is "Creation" not "Xerox" That is to say he might make something that looks like a Lilim, walks like a Lilim, f... ok, PG forum, err.. DANCES like a Lilim, but I really don't see it being a Lilim on the Symphonic, metaphysical level. And I have a much easier time seeing Eli getting close than Vapula even getting in the ball-park. I think that the best Eli could get would be some new Choir based on the Bright's. David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:54:33 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: Fwd: RE: IN> Seraph in trouble Walter Milliken suggested getting the Seraph involved in a long-term plot of the Game-Lil. Good idea, except that the Lil is soon to reveal herself as being a really, really awful creature. Then Elizabeth wrote: >That sounds good to me, though she'll want to make sure that nothing >gets revealed that she doesn't care is spread all over creation. (Revelations >is _such_ an annoying Word...) It certainly is. This is the first time I've had a Revved PC, and it's a bit tricky sometimes. >Another thing to look out for is if she "sells" the Geas to someone -- she >might be able to bargain a Geashook/4 into a firm Geas of a high level if >she rents the Seraph out to some Lust-Servitor who wants to be a Knight, >say... Hmmm. That sounds like a bit much for a Geas-4. "Shagging a demon" sounds like a -5 or a -6 to me. Maybe "provide escort service to a demon for a week". Anyway, I thought Andre granted that to Servitors who _seduced_ angels. >> Well if the Lilim has a nefarious plot of it's own going on then getting a >>Seraph to help with that diabolical plot is always fun. This would depend a >>great deal on you campaign. Oh mais oui. The only problem with this is that an angel of Revelation doesn't have much to betray; she's already blabbed everything she knows to anyone who's interested... >>Be aware that you also have a McGuffin on your side >>with the geis for those times when your PCs wander off in to the far Marches >>while all the action happens at the Two Towers. Good point. >>Fathering/Mothering the Lilim's child could also be entertaining. Doesn't that involve giving up a Force? And being pregnant would require a geas-6 (year of service). >>Also good >>if the Lilim is just being spiteful is to have the poor Seraph publicly aid >>a plot of Secrets. Yeah... hmmm... except she can't be made to *keep* secrets, since a lowly Geas-4 won't allow the infliction of dissonance... Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:25:24 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: IN> Song of Fruition I don't think that its covered in the write up of the song, but can two celestials use the celestial song of frution to have a child together? The same goes for two ethereals, and a mixed couple of one ethereal and one celestial. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:43:02 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Song of Fruition From: "Tim Groth" > I don't think that its covered in the write up of the song, but can > two celestials use the celestial song of frution to have a child together? > The same goes for two ethereals, and a mixed couple of one ethereal and one > celestial. Yes, and that would be part of why the Song is frowned upon in anything but its Corporeal version. ;;;) ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1510 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.