From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Jan 27 13:39:59 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA29001 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:39:58 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id NAA26340 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:35:17 -0600 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:35:17 -0600 Message-Id: <200001271935.NAA26340@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1512 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, January 27 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1512 In this digest: Re: IN> Prince of Gambling? Re: IN> Prince of Gambling? RE: IN> Lilim are Demons Re: IN> Prince of Gambling? Re: IN> Prince of Gambling? Re: IN> Sesame Street (RE: Lilim are Demons) IN> Probability And Sadistics Re: IN> NYC (was Re: IN> Lilim are Demons) Re: IN> Prince of Gambling? Re: IN> Prince of Gambling? IN> Nybbas sighting Re: IN> Probability And Sadistics Re: Fwd: Re: IN> Lilim are Demons Re: IN> Poker Faces (was: Probability And Sadistics) Re: IN> Lilim are Demons Re: IN> Lilim are Demons Re: Fwd: RE: IN> Seraph in trouble Re: IN> Song of Fruition Re: IN> Song of Fruition Re: IN> Prince of Gambling? Re: IN> Prince of Gambling? Re: IN> Probability And Sadistics Re: IN> intro, and starting out Re: IN> Sesame Street (RE: Lilim are Demons) Re: IN> Probability And Sadistics Re: IN> Probability And Sadistics Re: IN> Probability And Sadistics Re: IN> Probability And Sadistics Re: IN> intro, and starting out Re: IN> Muppets IN> Luck Rolls (Re: Prince of Gambling?) Fwd: Re: IN> Demon Prince of Hamsters Re: IN> Probability And Sadistics Re: IN> intro, and starting out Re: IN> Probability And Sadistics RE: IN> Probability And Sadistics Re: IN> Prince of Gambling? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:52:40 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Prince of Gambling? >From: Tim Groth >Using a normal gambling scheme you can win more essence >than you can hold, which lead me to think that Hell has some sort of >currency. Coins that can hold essence and can tell you there owner, they'd >probably be issued by the Game. > > Damned souls can hold Essence ... jo (But hold that thought) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 00:12:07 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Prince of Gambling? >Damned souls can hold Essence ... If they were used for that (which would probably creep other damned souls out) they'd still regenerate essence, which means you still have the problem of winning more than can be held. Since you don't want to give away something that regenerates essence there needs to be some none regenerating thing that can be used for holding essence. Though maybe the casinos work kinda like Chucky Cheese, you buy chips with essence and your winnings are in chips which can be turned in for things that are worth character points. That would be interesting: "Come on baby, daddy needs a new Vessel." Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:00:08 +1100 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: RE: IN> Lilim are Demons Elizabeth wrote: (Re: Superior Lilim) > >That's not Canon, is it? > > I'm not sure if it's canon or proto-canon. But whether it is or not, > don't sweat it. Have your own campaigns... O:> Interestingly, IMC, the only Lilim to make it as far as Superior was a super-rare bright. He's busy trying to crack the 'Lilim gene' as the PCs continue their daily plots. (There's a persistant rumour going around that Michael donated 8 of the Forces required for the Lilim, but smart Servitors of Judgement wouldn't believe such rumours, would they? *grin*) Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:19:15 -0000 From: "Laurent" Subject: Re: IN> Prince of Gambling? >>> Though maybe the casinos work kinda like Chucky Cheese, you buy chips with essence and your winnings are in chips which can be turned in for things that are worth character points. That would be interesting: "Come on baby, daddy needs a new Vessel." <<< Actually... if a player decides to ascend to Hell, goes into a casino and starts gambling... what is the d666 roll??? Should he use a skill? I don't think so. How do you handle the LUCK factor? Laurent. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 02:49:05 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Prince of Gambling? You know, I think the easiest way is probably just to roll dice (they're quite decent random number generators ;) ). If I was going to run something like this, I'd be tempted to borrow a small roulette wheel from a friend, and just let them spin it. Or doctor a deck and play out a few hands of poker ... For something like poker, you might want to give people a tactics roll -- I think that's what we've used for chess games, so it might be the nearest. Or you could invent a new skill for Gambling. jo >From: "Laurent" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: >Subject: Re: IN> Prince of Gambling? >Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:19:15 -0000 > > >>> >Though maybe the casinos work kinda like Chucky Cheese, you buy chips with >essence and your winnings are in chips which can be turned in for things >that are worth character points. That would be interesting: > >"Come on baby, daddy needs a new Vessel." ><<< > >Actually... if a player decides to ascend to Hell, goes into a casino and >starts >gambling... what is the d666 roll??? >Should he use a skill? I don't think so. How do you handle the LUCK factor? > > >Laurent. > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: 27 Jan 2000 11:22:09 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> Sesame Street (RE: Lilim are Demons) On Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:54:30 -0600 Kris Overstreet wrote: >> What about Oscar the Grouch? (He lived in >On the contrary, Oscar is a Soldier of Wind. }:-{D a highly dissonant one, if so--he never leaves his home! i'd say either he's either of Stone or Destiny (with the rough exterior as an act to motivate folks). would Big Bird be a Mercurian of Children or Flowers? Waldorf and his buddy (i always forget his buddy's name whenever i have to type it) would be hardcore Servitors of Dark Humor, or maybe just Soldiers. -=|horsefly|=- ________________________________________________________________ For the best in comics, collectibles, original art and shopping, visit the Dark Horse Network @ . ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 07:16:34 -0500 From: David Wood Subject: IN> Probability And Sadistics Quoth Jo Hart (j_hart@hotmail.com) on 1/27/00 5:49 AM... >You know, I think the easiest way is probably just to roll dice (they're >quite decent random number generators ;) ). If I was going to run something >like this, I'd be tempted to borrow a small roulette wheel from a friend, Never underestimate the programmable calculator for something like this; many good ones have random functions (for long intransitive numbers between 0 and 1) which you can turn into die rollers of any size. The roulette got me thinking how many 0s that Hell's Roulette Wheel has on it. The European wheel only has 0. The American Wheel has 00. I wouldn't put it past Hell to add to the excitement and put 000 on there as well. 95% of the payouts on the standard roulette wheel would become that much more unlikely, payout drops more in comparison to odds of winning, etc. And if you Do The Math, you'll see that most gambling games are stacked against the player to BEGIN with; the payoffs NEVER quite make up for the odds against winning. In short, the mathematical expectation on every bet is negative. Meaning if you play in the long run, you *will lose money*. Cheating in favor of the house is really like *additional* stealing. Which Hell should see nothing wrong with. The only game this doesn't apply in is one where the demons have an equal base chance with the humans playing, and oddly enough that's poker. Poker can't be popular in Hell. Same antes, same number of cards. The only thing that sets them apart is skill, ability to bluff (Balseraphs have other edges too: "Hah! Two pair beats a full house!"), and so forth. The demons will probably be too afraid of other demons reading the marks on their cards that they might not use marked cards. Which then gives a human with nerves of steel an opportunity to outbluff or call another bluff. And get ravaged by the demon he loses in a hand. So humans won't want to play either, if you think about it. Where am I going with this rambling nonsense? Just stream of consciousness, I guess. First posting to the list in a long, LONG time... - --David http://home.bluecrab.org/~dwood "I had REALLY high hopes when I saw the URL http://www.furby.com/furby/breaking.htm ...but the blasted thing is just a news page." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:28:02 +0000 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> NYC (was Re: IN> Lilim are Demons) In message , Jason Schneiderman writes > >So, from my experience, it isn't so much that NYC is out of demonic >control... it's that The Game has it now, rather than the gang from >Shal-Mari. Whether this is an improvement depends on your chronicle. > Heh. Mayor Giuliani as a Soldier of the Game? It fits. (I remember that the last time I visited the city my friend took me to a club called 'Shine' -- only to discover that Rudy had closed it down the previous night due to acts of public lewdness...) - -- Julian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:07:54 +0000 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> Prince of Gambling? In message , Justin Buhler writes >While reading through my In Nomine book (For no apparent reason) I noticed >that Shal-Mari was made up of Casinos, Bordellos, Restaurants, and Theaters, >and that Andre contros the bordellos, Haagenti the restuarants, and Kobal >the theaters. It was then it hit me, who controls the Casinos? I presumed it >was a Prince of Gambling, and immediately (The next day) went to work on a >write-up for such a character. However, before I posted him here I wanted to >know if there already is a Prince of Gambling in any solid text so that I >don't make a fool of myself. If not then I'll post my ideas unless there are >any objections (And unfortunately no, I do not have a webpage yet, so I >can't just HTML it =P) >______________________________________________________ The Game I would say. Maybe there's a Duke with the Word of Gambling? Can't hurt to post your write-up anyhow, extra ideas are always helpful. - -- Julian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:59:03 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Prince of Gambling? At 10:51 PM -0800 1/26/00, Jo Hart wrote: >>From: Whistling in the Dark >> >>My presumption is it's Mammon, the Prince of Greed. With competition >>from Haagenti. >> >> > >I'd always assumed it was mainly Asmodeus. Game, Stacked Deck, Place >your bets, double or quit... Oo -- agreed there. Ignore that whole "Mammon" thing from before. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: 27 Jan 2000 09:47:59 -0500 From: jmcbray@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu (Jason F. McBrayer) Subject: IN> Nybbas sighting Nybbas made the cover of U.S. News and World Report this week (Jan 31 issue). You can take a look at the cover at http://www.usnews.com/usnews/graphics/homepage/largecover.gif -- the cover article is on the idea of Hell. - -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu | | The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must hide Yhtill | | forever. R.W. Chambers _The King in Yellow_ | ------------------------------ Date: 27 Jan 2000 10:01:09 -0500 From: jmcbray@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu (Jason F. McBrayer) Subject: Re: IN> Probability And Sadistics >>>>> "DW" == David Wood writes: DW> The only game this doesn't apply in is one where the demons have DW> an equal base chance with the humans playing, and oddly enough DW> that's poker. Poker can't be popular in Hell. Same antes, same DW> number of cards. The only thing that sets them apart is skill, DW> ability to bluff (Balseraphs have other edges too: "Hah! Two pair DW> beats a full house!"), and so forth. And Habbalah and Lilim both have Perception-based resonances they can use to detect bluffing....speaking of which, playing poker with angels would be much rougher. Seraphim: can't bluff, but always know when you're bluffing. Well, if they're very careful they can bluff, but unless it's a Seraph of the Wind, it's likely to be pretty obvious. Cherubim: not so obvious, but suppose they attune to the 'pigeon' at the table. She'll know when he's in danger of getting hustled. Ofanim: No real advantage, I guess. Elohim: Can't detect bluffers as well as Seraphim, but almost as well (and better than Habbalah). Malakim: Not too useful, unless your most ignoble act recently was to bluff the pidgeon (holding a full house) with a pair of jacks. Kyriotates: Again, not very useful, except for Kyrios of Jean (possess the cards) or if they have a high enough Will to possess other players and look at their cards. Mercurians: Can spot the pigeon in every group. There are a lot of attunements that would be useful for poker, too, but I don't have the book with me to check. - -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu | | The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must hide Yhtill | | forever. R.W. Chambers _The King in Yellow_ | ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:52:05 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: IN> Lilim are Demons At 17:31 -0500 1/25/00, Jo Hart wrote: >Interesting point. Do Lilim really count as a major band? After all, they >are all made by one Superior. There aren't as many of them as any of the >other bands ... But they serve all the Words, not just one, and their function isn't very restricted, either. And I generally consider any Choir or Band written up in the main book to be "major", and all others "minor", just as with Superiors. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 07:51:31 PST From: "Erich Arendall" Subject: Re: IN> Poker Faces (was: Probability And Sadistics) >Ofanim: No real advantage, I guess. Get nothing special as a player, but they're the best dealers at the table! >Kyriotates: Again, not very useful, except for Kyrios of Jean (possess > the cards) or if they have a high enough Will to possess > other players and look at their cards. Kyrios of Jordi are the proverbial fly on the wall - very helpful in cards. Other Kyrios could simply possess one of the Casino girls or waitresses. ...We are talking about playing in Las Vegas, right? Nothing better than taking in a show while beating the pants off everyone in poker and solving an international mystery at the same time! - -Erich S. Arendall "Shadow Sprite" Impudite of Critical Failures at the Worst Possible Time for Players and the Best Time for GMs, servitor of Kronos - ------------------------- Foaming at the Mouth http://rpg.net/news+reviews/sprite.html Touched by an Impudite http://www.insync.net/~sprite/ - ---------------------------- ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:54:45 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Lilim are Demons At 18:38 -0500 1/25/00, James Bearse wrote: >Why would Vapula want to waste his time making Lilim? He thinks he's GOD, >remember (that Habbalah mindset kicking in again) so why should he duplicate >the creatures of a lesser being? Especially when he could be working on the >dreaded... VAPULIM! (Mwah-hah-hah-hah!) I think those are usually called "gremlins".... (Has anyone else noticed the vast increase in the gremlin population since Vapula rose to power...?) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:59:04 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Lilim are Demons At 20:55 -0500 1/25/00, David Rodemaker wrote: > I would say that it >actually flies in the face of Canon to say that anyone short of God or mayby >Lucifer could make a Lilim. While this is implied, I don't think it's stated outright -- it may be an area of CDaU. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:13:43 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: Fwd: RE: IN> Seraph in trouble At 21:54 -0500 1/25/00, Douglas Muir wrote: >Walter Milliken suggested getting the Seraph involved in a long-term plot >of the Game-Lil. Good idea, except that the Lil is soon to reveal herself >as being a really, really awful creature. Ah, but could she convince the Seraph (and/or companions) that there's a *spark* of good in her somewhere, that only needs a little encouragement? (This is known in Game circles as the "Darth Vader scam". Of course, this only works on angels who are a little too optimistic and naive -- don't try it on Fire, Stone, Sword, or War angels! Works best on angels of Dreams, Creation, and Flowers. Sometimes also Destiny, but Divine Destiny can ruin the game.) >>Another thing to look out for is if she "sells" the Geas to someone -- she >>might be able to bargain a Geashook/4 into a firm Geas of a high level if >>she rents the Seraph out to some Lust-Servitor who wants to be a Knight, >>say... > >Hmmm. That sounds like a bit much for a Geas-4. "Shagging a demon" sounds >like a -5 or a -6 to me. Depends on how bad the demon is, and how upset the angel will be about it. Basic sex might be seen as a cheap way to get rid of the Geas. Yeah, it's really distasteful, but I'd say that falls into a the realm of a Geas/4, except maybe for Creationers (who generally have a real problem with Lust demons...). >Anyway, I thought Andre granted that to Servitors who _seduced_ angels. I doubt Andre is really against the use of force, either. On the other hand, it's a borderline case -- if the demon could show the angel *really* enjoyed the experience, then Andre'd probably grant it, in my game. If the angel promptly killed the demon, well, no distinction, and probably no new vessel, either. >Oh mais oui. The only problem with this is that an angel of Revelation >doesn't have much to betray; she's already blabbed everything she knows to >anyone who's interested... So have the Lilim feed the angel lots of nice (true) dirt... say, the fact that the city mayor has a homosexual relationship with one of the City Council, where both of them have done a lot of good for the city, and the deputy mayor is a real political scumball. Stuff like that. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:16:24 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Song of Fruition At 15:04 -0500 1/26/00, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 9:25 PM -0700 1/25/00, Tim Groth wrote: >> I don't think that its covered in the write up of the song, but can >>two celestials use the celestial song of frution to have a child together? >>The same goes for two ethereals, and a mixed couple of one ethereal and one >>celestial. > >I don't recall there being a canon decision on this, so it's currently >GM decision. I thought there was some canon decision a while back (by SJ, I think), that Superior intervention was always required for celestial reproduction, though I don't think that's made it into print anywhere. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:23:12 GMT From: "Trey Reilly" Subject: Re: IN> Song of Fruition >I thought there was some canon decision a while back (by SJ, I think), that >Superior intervention was always required for celestial reproduction, >though >I don't think that's made it into print anywhere. I believe it's in the Angelic Players Guide. - --Trey ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:29:25 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Prince of Gambling? At 23:25 -0500 1/26/00, Justin Buhler wrote: > It was then it hit me, who controls the Casinos? I presumed it >was a Prince of Gambling, and immediately (The next day) went to work on a >write-up for such a character. However, before I posted him here I wanted to >know if there already is a Prince of Gambling in any solid text so that I >don't make a fool of myself. I don't think there's a demon of Gambling anywhere, though there is a near-canon (or maybe canon -- she may be mentioned in the IPG) Demon of Gambling Debts. I believe she was going to be in the L.Servitorum, but all the Word-bound got cut, as I recall. She's on David Edelstein's web page at: http://www.amadan.org/Innomine/Molly.html Personally, I don't think Gambling is *quite* a powerful enough Word for a Prince, and it would certainly overlap Mammon and/or Asmodeus a lot. Of course, I'm not going to tell Lucifer "no", so.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:35:37 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Prince of Gambling? At 5:19 -0500 1/27/00, Laurent wrote: >>>> >Though maybe the casinos work kinda like Chucky Cheese, you buy chips with >essence and your winnings are in chips which can be turned in for things >that are worth character points. That would be interesting: > >"Come on baby, daddy needs a new Vessel." ><<< > >Actually... if a player decides to ascend to Hell, goes into a casino and starts >gambling... what is the d666 roll??? >Should he use a skill? I don't think so. How do you handle the LUCK factor? Skills only apply where they can be used -- many forms of gambling are pure chance, with very little or no skill involved. (Not card games, though.) If you want a very abstract system, have the player roll against a target number of 6, if he makes it, he wins an amount equal to the CD, otherwise he loses an amount equal to the CD. You probably want to make the units something like 1/10 of an Essence point (and all fractions go to the house when you cash out -- this *is* Hell you're talking about here...). For games where skill *is* important, like blackjack and poker, then I'd define a Knowledge skill for the game and use that, or maybe a more generalized Knowledge (Gambling) skill, since the IN skill system isn't very fine-grained. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:46:17 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Probability And Sadistics At 10:01 -0500 1/27/00, Jason F. McBrayer wrote: >....speaking of which, playing poker with angels >would be much rougher. > >Seraphim: can't bluff, but always know when you're bluffing. Well, > if they're very careful they can bluff, but unless it's a > Seraph of the Wind, it's likely to be pretty obvious. >Cherubim: not so obvious, but suppose they attune to the 'pigeon' at > the table. She'll know when he's in danger of getting > hustled. Can also attune to the good cards, or the deck (to detect deck-switches). >Ofanim: No real advantage, I guess. They don't play poker -- they'd be over watching the roulette wheel (and Windy ones would probably be trying to ride on it...). >Malakim: Not too useful, unless your most ignoble act recently was > to bluff the pidgeon (holding a full house) with a pair of > jacks. Can detect cheaters, though, some of the time. >Kyriotates: Again, not very useful, except for Kyrios of Jean (possess > the cards) or if they have a high enough Will to possess > other players and look at their cards. Also, Kyrios of Jordi can plant insect spies on the other players. Of course, they're totally uninterested in the ways humans waste their time and energy, so they don't play.... Kyrios of Jean don't play poker in casinos -- the odds are much better for them with slot machines and roulette wheels.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:45:24 -0500 (EST) From: "N.M. Wallace" Subject: Re: IN> intro, and starting out On Tue, 25 Jan 2000, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 12:02 PM -0500 1/25/00, N.M. Wallace wrote: > > >After a panel at Arisia, I've decided that I want to run an In Nomine > >campaign. I know that it's going to be angelic, so I figure I'll pick up a > >copy of the Celestial Players Guide, and the GM Guide. Anything else I > >need? > > (And would this have been one of the panels I was so happily > trying to sell IN on...? O;> ) Yup! It was the First Time GM panel--I actually spoke with you for a while afterwards. You made a suggestion to me in the order I should read the main sourcebook in, but I didn't write it down, and therefore. it's gone... Thanks to everybody for your suggestions. The only one I can't take is the one about playing first. I'd love to, but the whole reason I'm GM-ing at all is because I can't find anyone playing the way I like to. I'm a big fan of character-driven, low dice games and it seems like the only one people around here play is Vampire. Not that I have anything against White Wolf--I'd *love* a Changeling or Werewolf campaign--but in my experience, Vampire tends to devolve into gothling angst-posturing to easily, and I'm over that at this point in my life. Okay, enough ranting. My plot idea is that the PC's are being sent on a mission to contact some of the old pagan gods, and see if they can make alliances with them. I'm thinking I'll need You Are Here, since the game will likely start in the Far Marches. Now, if I can just find enough players... Nancy Nancy M. Wallace @}----- darkrose@shore.net "How many more people have to die for your personal growth?" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:52:28 -0600 From: Kris Overstreet Subject: Re: IN> Sesame Street (RE: Lilim are Demons) At 11:22 AM 1/27/00 -0000, you wrote: >On Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:54:30 -0600 Kris Overstreet wrote: >>> What about Oscar the Grouch? (He lived in >>On the contrary, Oscar is a Soldier of Wind. }:-{D > a highly dissonant one, if so--he never leaves his home! Soldier, not Servitor. > would Big Bird be a Mercurian of Children or Flowers? Big Bird is IMHO a servitor of Litheroy. > Waldorf and his buddy Stadtler Redneck ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:53:11 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Probability And Sadistics >From: Walter Milliken >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Kyrios of Jean don't play poker in casinos -- the odds are much better for >them with slot machines and roulette wheels.... > But Seraphim of Jean are fiendish Bridge players. They can count the cards. jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:52:27 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Probability And Sadistics Walter Milliken wrote: > Also, Kyrios of Jordi can plant insect spies on the other players. Of > course, they're totally uninterested in the ways humans waste their > time and energy, so they don't play.... "He bet the environmental budget on WHAT?!" Not to mention greyhounds, racehorses, and fighting dogs, cocks, and bettas. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:23:44 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Probability And Sadistics >Ofanim: No real advantage, I guess. Sleight of hand for cheating, boosted by there resonance, no one will notice. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:31:23 -0600 From: "Eeyore" Subject: Re: IN> Probability And Sadistics - -----Original Message----- From: Jo Hart To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Thursday, January 27, 2000 10:57 AM Subject: Re: IN> Probability And Sadistics > > > >>From: Walter Milliken >>Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > >>Kyrios of Jean don't play poker in casinos -- the odds are much better for >>them with slot machines and roulette wheels.... >> > >But Seraphim of Jean are fiendish Bridge players. They can count the cards. They'll also play blackjack in casinos; if you can count cards and know the various probabilities (and what good Lightning servitor doesn't?), it's the only casino game in which the odds are actually in your favor. J. Michael Neal ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 12:44:15 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> intro, and starting out At 11:45 -0500 1/27/00, N.M. Wallace wrote: >On Tue, 25 Jan 2000, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> (And would this have been one of the panels I was so happily >> trying to sell IN on...? O;> ) > >Yup! It was the First Time GM panel--I actually spoke with you for a while >afterwards. You made a suggestion to me in the order I should read the >main sourcebook in, but I didn't write it down, and therefore. it's >gone... Read the first section (I think up through basic character generation), then the last part (Choirs/Bands and Superiors), and then the middle game mechanics section. At least, I think that's Elizabeth's favored order. >Okay, enough ranting. My plot idea is that the PC's are being sent on a >mission to contact some of the old pagan gods, and see if they can make >alliances with them. I'm thinking I'll need You Are Here, since the game >will likely start in the Far Marches. You probably want to get The Marches, then -- that's where most of the extant data on the ethereal realm is. I'm not sure how much Marches stuff is in You Are Here. The L.Servitorum may also be useful, since there's a modest selection of ethereals in it. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:15:12 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Muppets At 2:54 PM -0800 1/26/00, Janet Anderson wrote: >First of all, Miss Piggy is *not* an angel. She's a Lilim. Selfishness is >her middle name. She either serves Greed, Gluttony, or is a Free Lilim, I'm >not sure which. I don't think she's a Lilim -- she doesn't do _deals_. More likely an Impudite. Of the War. It's _always_ a fair fight, really! She's just this short little piggywench, right? At 11:22 AM +0000 1/27/00, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: >On Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:54:30 -0600 Kris Overstreet wrote: >>> What about Oscar the Grouch? (He lived in >>On the contrary, Oscar is a Soldier of Wind. }:-{D > a highly dissonant one, if so--he never leaves his home! That's why he'd have to be a _Soldier_ -- Soldiers don't get dissonant. (Soldiers must be vital to both Theft and the Wind...) > would Big Bird be a Mercurian of Children or Flowers? Reliever of one of those, I'd think... Hm. I want to say "Flowers" for some reason. Maybe because of the time he was captured and dyed blue... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:13:20 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Luck Rolls (Re: Prince of Gambling?) At 10:19 AM +0000 1/27/00, Laurent wrote: >Actually... if a player decides to ascend to Hell, goes into a casino and >starts gambling... what is the d666 roll??? >Should he use a skill? I don't think so. How do you handle the LUCK factor? You could have him roll vs. Precision, vs. a Knowledge (Gambling) skill (more or less specialized according to GM taste), or simply have the universe make a reaction roll to the character as per the Reaction Roll table (probably minus any modifiers like Charisma or Status). I usually do the latter for "luck rolls" -- universe reaction rolls. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:20:10 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Fwd: Re: IN> Demon Prince of Hamsters >From: "Perry Lloyd" >Subject: Re: IN> Demon Prince of Hamsters >Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 03:02:30 PST > > >>From: "Krowe _" >>Subject: IN> Re: IN -- Demon Prince of Hamsters > >>That was, by far, the most I have laughed while reading a message from this >>list in a long time. >> >>Thank you. > >Oh, excellent. I was unsure whether or not to post the link to the list, so >i'd just responded to Maya. I'm glad that it was passed through by >Elizabeth to the list. > >-Perry > >From: "Perry Lloyd" >Subject: Re: IN> Demon Prince of Hamsters >Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 03:06:34 PST > >>From: "Krowe _" >>Subject: IN> Re: IN -- Demon Prince of Hamsters > >>That was, by far, the most I have laughed while reading a message from this >>list in a long time. >> >>Thank you. > >Oh, excellent. I was unsure whether or not to post the link to the list, so >i'd just responded to Maya. I'm glad that it was passed through by >Elizabeth to the list. > >You may also want to take a look at: >http://sluggy.com/d/970825.html > >While www.goats.com series DOES have a Satan-worshipping chicken, >www.sluggy.com has MUCH more Demon summoning and combat with Demons, etc . . >. The very first strip (see addy above) involves summoning lucifer over the >internet and archangels. > >-Perry >perrylloyd@hotmail.com >http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/6045/index.html >A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of >five. >--Groucho Marx >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:31:38 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Probability And Sadistics At 10:01 AM -0500 1/27/00, Jason F. McBrayer wrote: >And Habbalah and Lilim both have Perception-based resonances they can >use to detect bluffing.... Lilim: "I know you _need_ to get that next card of clubs -- bluffing, are you?" >speaking of which, playing poker with angels >would be much rougher. [...] >Ofanim: No real advantage, I guess. Watch them shuffle! Or try to watch... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:31:40 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> intro, and starting out At 11:45 AM -0500 1/27/00, N.M. Wallace wrote: >> (And would this have been one of the panels I was so happily >> trying to sell IN on...? O;> ) > >Yup! It was the First Time GM panel--I actually spoke with you for a while >afterwards. You made a suggestion to me in the order I should read the >main sourcebook in, but I didn't write it down, and therefore. it's >gone... The order I'd read it... The story (bearing in mind that some of the mechanics changed since the story was written, and you can tune the tone of the game to suit you if you don't like the story's tone), then everything up to the d666. Then flip back to the _The Insruments_ section (aka "Book II," starting on pp. 90-91) and read through till you get to _The Composition_. Go back to the d666 mechanics and read from there, then finish up with _The Composition._ Or at least, that's the order I read it in, and it seemed to work for me. O:> >Okay, enough ranting. My plot idea is that the PC's are being sent on a >mission to contact some of the old pagan gods, and see if they can make >alliances with them. I'm thinking I'll need You Are Here, since the game >will likely start in the Far Marches. You will probably want to at least skim over _The Marches_, from the Revelations Cycle, then. (The _working_ sorcery mechanics are in the CPG, though...) YAH has some _very_ nice "mood locations" for the Marches, while _Marches_ has stuff about the pantheons. (The Game Master's Guide also touches on some stuff you might find useful in the religions section.) >Now, if I can just find enough players... Luck! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:02:06 -0600 From: Uncle Wolf Subject: Re: IN> Probability And Sadistics Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > At 10:01 AM -0500 1/27/00, Jason F. McBrayer wrote: > >And Habbalah and Lilim both have Perception-based resonances they can > >use to detect bluffing.... > > Lilim: "I know you _need_ to get that next card of clubs -- bluffing, > are you?" > > >speaking of which, playing poker with angels > >would be much rougher. The ones that no one will play cards with because they are near perfect at catching bluffs, better even than Seraphim: Elohim of War. Their Servitor Choir Attunement is to know just exactly how far someone is willing to take a given situation, and with their basic Choir Resonance to tell them the motivation of _why_ you are willing to go that far. The Choir attunement is a freebie, other than having to look a person in the eyes, and how hard is that around a poker table? After all, to run a bluff, you need to be able to look the other person in the eyes and lie right at them. Any looking away, nervous avoidance of eye to eye contact, and your bluff [base assumption: you are bluffing; it's not really a bluff if you can back it up] is so *history*. But if you meet the EoW's eyes, he will know how far you are willing to go; one disturbance-less Perception role later for motivation, and you are nailed. And Balseraphim are not the best bluffers: any time they impose their will on The Symphony by Telling A Lie, there is the slight matter of Disturbance that can give away the game. Suggested Balseraph of Gambling Choir Attunement: Any time these Bals are in a situation where they are taking a chance [the outcome is a random event], they may use their Resonance to bluff without causing a Disturbance as a result of bending The Symphony to their will. But when their Resonance blows up on them, they take double dissonance and cause twice the usual Disturbance, but hey, you pays your money and you takes your chances.... Tom Timberlake, Cadre Cherub of Heaven - -- Strange blood, howl again, for now we know to well - Better a friend on paths unknown, than to be alone in hell! "Strange Blood" A Wolfrider's Reflection, by various artists ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:05:37 -0600 From: "Trent" Subject: RE: IN> Probability And Sadistics >>Ofanim: No real advantage, I guess. > >They don't play poker -- they'd be over watching the roulette wheel (and >Windy ones would probably be trying to ride on it...). Oooh! I want a roulette ball vessel! Trent Ofanite of doubt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:42:31 -0600 From: Uncle Wolf Subject: Re: IN> Prince of Gambling? > Walter Milliken wrote: [snip] > Personally, I don't think Gambling is *quite* a powerful enough Word for > a Prince, and it would certainly overlap Mammon and/or Asmodeus a lot. Of > course, I'm not going to tell Lucifer "no", so.... I disagree with you on this one, Walter. Any time you take a chance, whether it is kissing a frog on the elementary school playground as a result of a double-dog-dare, trying to jump on an elevator even though the timer has timed out and the doors are closing, running a light about to turn red with a policeman right there [points] watching you, bungie-diving from a crane, or trying to take the kitty with a piss-poor hand, you are gambling. And while taking chances do sometimes result in improvements, breaking you free from the rut of your life [Angelic Windy territory], there are also chances that break your life, ruining it, leaving you crying in the wreckage, which is Demonic, Fate-driving Gambling territory. This is different from Furfur's Hardcore in that you can get to Ruination with many moderate Gambling steps, instead of one huge, all-or-nothing Hardcore step. And the obsessive behavior does resemble Addiction, but is more a mental thing. And The Game tends to be too analytical, too conservative with their bets, while Gambling is more a matter of impulse and flamboyance [Sky Madison = Impudite of Gambling [everyone loves a winner, and nobody wins like Sky does, who even manages to lose {rarely} with style and panache] who redeems into a Mercurian Angel of Marriage by the end of "Guys and Dolls"]. So Gambling does overlap other Words, but the fact that it overlaps so many is an indication, IMO, that this is a Big Word, worthy of a DP. all IMO, YMMV, of course. Tom Timberlake, Cadre Cherub of Heaven - -- Strange blood, howl again, for now we know to well - Better a friend on paths unknown, than to be alone in hell! "Strange Blood" A Wolfrider's Reflection, by various artists ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1512 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.