From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Nov 6 21:26:09 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04394 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 21:26:09 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id VAA00061 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 21:25:56 -0600 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 21:25:56 -0600 Message-Id: <200011070325.VAA00061@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1910 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, November 6 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1910 In this digest: IN> Bush/Gore Campaign> In Nomine! IN> Mea Culpa Re: IN> If Bush and Gore were Celestials, what Choirs or Bands would they be? Re: IN> Bush/Gore Campaign> In Nomine! Yes, Archangel (WAS: Re: IN> If Bush and Gore were Celestials, what Choirs or Bands would they be?) Re: IN> If Bush and Gore were Celestials, what Choirs or Bands would they be? Re: IN> Domestication in Heaven Re: Yes, Archangel (WAS: Re: IN> If Bush and Gore were Celestials, what Choirs or Bands would they be?) Re: IN> Thoughts on Lilith's writeup... Re: IN> Domestication in Heaven Re: IN> Domestication in Heaven IN> Why Haagenti is the most dangerous Prince alive IN> About Politics in IN... Re: IN> If Bush and Gore were Celestials, what Choirs or Bands would they be? Re: IN> Domestication in Heaven Re: IN> Nyuk, Nyuk, Nyuk... Re: IN> About Politics in IN... Re: IN> STUFF! Re: IN> Point? Point? What is this "point" you keep speaking of? Re: IN> A Lilim Archangel Re: IN> Point? Point? What is this "point" you keep speaking of? Re: >Subject: IN> The Angels of Final Judgement Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1899 Re: IN> About Politics in IN... Re: >Subject: IN> The Angels of Final Judgement Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1899 Re: IN> Angels from Outer Space Re: IN> About Politics in IN... IN> I need guns. Re: IN> About Politics in IN... Re: IN> I need guns. Re: IN> About Politics in IN... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 16:29:45 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Bush/Gore Campaign> In Nomine! Forgive me Beth for I have sinned AL GORE Elohite of Jean (married to a mortal Solider) "I enabled the Internet" (would be if he was a Seraph) The man's policies are also contradicted by his ruthless Archangel. Allied: Jean Associated: Jordi, Novalis ("Tipper plays Drums!"), Eli ("Tipper plays drums!"), and Asmodeus ("More laws the Merrier!") Hostile: Bush...cough cough cough, Andre ("Look what he did to my poor Bill!") Enemy: No body...officially. "DUBYA!" Malakite of Michael This is the only answer that I can see fitting. He's a 2nd generation Celestial with his Cherub mother and Seraph (who yoyoed back from Hell) father but Big Mike is still above him. Allied: Big Mike, Kobal (he's like half human/half elephant!) Associated: Laurence (We need strong laws), Eli ("The man is cool!"), Dominic ("The less laws NEEDED the better") and Saminga ("Death is cool...hmmm I don't like his abortion policy but FRY EM UP BUDDY BOY! I'M A WAITING!"), Blandine (He certainly...err dreams alot) Neutral: Nybbas (I hate you both!) Hostile: Andrephalus, Novalis (HEY! No one is hostile to me!), Asmodeus Enemy: Lilith ("Your going down Floppy ear boy!"), Fleurity ("ARGH! YOU WILL PAY FOR THIS BUSH!") - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 02:01:57 -0800 From: "Glenn Brown" Subject: IN> Mea Culpa My apologies to anyone who found my last post inappropriate. While I do think role playing games can provide a context in which players can consider controversial issues, I suppose in hindsight this wasn't the way to do it. Sorry. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 22:06:01 GMT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> If Bush and Gore were Celestials, what Choirs or Bands would they be? >Uh. > >I vote that this thread be removed. There's maybe a handful of people who >are objective enough to treat this right, especially a day before the >election. > Well, I vote against then! IN can be a great satire, so I don't see why we shouldn't satirise politics and politicians :) I had quite a cute thing going where The Game organised itself along the lines of the British Civil Service in the first game I ran. Anyone have any good ideas for hellish (or heavenly) organisations that have just a little bit too much in common with some of the Earthly organisations we just love to hate? jo _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 15:30:51 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Bush/Gore Campaign> In Nomine! > Fleurity ("ARGH! YOU WILL >PAY FOR THIS BUSH!") I'm not touching much more than this, but in Fleurity's write up (at least the one in Night Music, my #@&% of a local gaming store hasn't gotten Superiors 4 yet even though I requested it before the damn thing came out) it says that he is for the war on drugs, because it makes drugs seem wrong and forbidden but people still want them. I liked that ideology in a Demon of Drugs, especially one who is a Habbalite. To sort of go off on a tangent how is membership in the Seraphim council decided? I know that Archangels are officially voting members, but in a couple of books vague references are made to the oldest and wisest Seraphim are allowed to sit on it and vote as well. Is there some sort of objective criteria, or is it a situation in which the Archangelic members vote for which other angels should sit on it? This is as much a question about canon as about what people have gone with for their games. - -- Timothy, Angel of Rambling Ofanite of Creation ArchRival of Mathus If you have time to kill, why not kill it at http://ucsub.Colorado.edu/~grothtp/In.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 22:52:32 GMT From: prodigal@ticnet.com Subject: Yes, Archangel (WAS: Re: IN> If Bush and Gore were Celestials, what Choirs or Bands would they be?) Jo Hart writes: > > I had quite a cute thing going where The Game organised itself along the > lines of the British Civil Service in the first game I ran. I'm going to have a very hard time not picturing Sir Humphrey when I think of Asmodeus now... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 22:55:54 -0000 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> If Bush and Gore were Celestials, what Choirs or Bands would they be? From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> If Bush and Gore were Celestials, what Choirs or Bands would they be? > I had quite a cute thing going where The Game organised itself along the > lines of the British Civil Service in the first game I ran. Anyone have any > good ideas for hellish (or heavenly) organisations that have just a little > bit too much in common with some of the Earthly organisations we just love > to hate? hmmm, not sure about organisations but the millennium dome is a fairly obvious (easy) target. i reckon it was all a scam cooked up by kobal and nybbas to help make both the tories *and* labour look stoopid and sell papers (never mind american telly, i think you'll have to look far to find a more nybbassian bunch than british tabloids) liam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 23:05:02 -0000 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> Domestication in Heaven From: "James Walker" Subject: IN> Domestication in Heaven > Wild sheep? Pardon? humans didn't invent sheep. i'd always assumed (perhaps wrongly) that there were still wild varieties of sheep kicking around much in the same way that there are wild cattles, horses and dogs >However domesticated animals are far more > common. yeah, but my point was once they're dead they're in jordi's realm, and at that point they become off limits to those pesky humans > I know a number of women who would assume that they were in Hell if they > didn't need a hair salon. i would have imagined that if you wanted to change your hairstyle (if such a thing were relevant) in heaven it would be more a matter of concentration than coiffuring. >Also, there is a coffee shop in Heaven, described > in YAH. > Heaven without food - wash your mouth out. Okay, so you don't NEED food, > but so what. [shudder]. yeah, but all these things are in heaven to simulate the enjoyable experience of eating nice food/drinking nice drink/hanging out with people you like. it's not because you need to eat oir drink. the food isn't made from "real" products. that's all corporeal stuff. do you think jordi lets people kill celestial animals so that they can eat celestial meat? so why would he let them shear them to make celestial wool? > And yes, there would be toilets, in the Halls of Creation if nowhere else. > Most new ideas strike while on the bog, so Eli's throne room would be truly > impressive. where would it *go*? the mind boggles... > Agreed - that line was me being silly. well, i assumed this whole debate was fairly far along the slide rule of silliness :) > On Silly, a truly bizarre thought struck me. A grain of wheat burns itself > out and dies to produce the next harvest. For it, just soaking up the rich > soil of Heaven and growing a stalk of wheat would be comparable to parents > who (having worked themselves to death bringing up their children) on > arriving in Heaven get given a selection of lingerie and reminded that they > don't need contraceptives up here... bwuh? people don't have kids in heaven, surely. that'd be too Weird. part of my assumptions about animals not breeding/growing wool/dieing in heaven. did i miss something? liam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 23:05:49 GMT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: Yes, Archangel (WAS: Re: IN> If Bush and Gore were Celestials, what Choirs or Bands would they be?) > >Jo Hart writes: > > > > I had quite a cute thing going where The Game organised itself along the > > lines of the British Civil Service in the first game I ran. > >I'm going to have a very hard time not picturing Sir Humphrey when I think >of Asmodeus now... > Oh yeah :) Sir Humphrey, in a cat vessel, was the local Baron. I still have the intro document that I sent out to players ... jo http://www.btinternet.com/~jhart/intro.htm (if you're curious) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 18:09:46 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Thoughts on Lilith's writeup... >Philippe > >Oh, BTW.. Anyone else have any sugestions on what to do in the following >situation. My players spend their last xp as soon as they get it. And some >just made new chars with no xp collected yet. Then their vessels die. And >they dont have a spare one. What do I do? Just let them rot in heaven? How >do they get a new one? I dont want to let a wordbound give one away on pure >mercy, since they will never learn to save xp for vessels. Suggestions >please! Put them on duty in the Marches for a while. There's duty in Heaven as well; guarding the border between the Volcano and the Marches, political intrigue, and strange hunts through Yves' Library among the various possible games. Also, have their immediate boss make clear that if they want to get back to Earth anytime soon, they need to be productive enough to justify the expense in Forces and effort it takes to create Vessels. Same goes if they ever want to get their hands on the really neat toys. Your players should be able to get the hint that this means "save up XP," and if not... well, tell them. And a Word-bound need not "give away" a Vessel; if they really need Vessels, then provide them along with enough Duty, an extra Dissonance Condition, and/or a disadvantage or two("There, if you can do your job in the Role of a dirt-poor, dog-ugly country singer, you'll deserve that Vessel.") to account for the point cost of obtaining them. Then have the players earn the XP needed to wipe away the extra disadvantages, and they'll be left with a fresh Vessel, and hopefully some understanding of how valuable they are. William ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 17:10:28 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Domestication in Heaven - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Liam Astley" To: Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 5:05 PM Subject: Re: IN> Domestication in Heaven > yeah, but all these things are in heaven to simulate the enjoyable > experience of eating nice food/drinking nice drink/hanging out with people > you like. it's not because you need to eat oir drink. the food isn't made > from "real" products. that's all corporeal stuff. do you think jordi lets > people kill celestial animals so that they can eat celestial meat? so why > would he let them shear them to make celestial wool? If they haven't errata'ed it out by now, "Heaven & Hell" (Revelations 3) makes a mention that "Heaven does not obey corporeal physical laws. Energy may be produced from nothingness..." (p. 64, left column) If you can create energy out of nothing at will, it's not much of a stretch to go on to violating conservation of mass too. So I guess that 'stuff' in Heaven is just free for the making out of thin air, if you know how -- wave, wave, *bamf*. (Obviously, of course, 'energy' does not include 'Essence', otherwise Heaven would be mulching Hell like a wine grape in a blender. They just mean heat, light, etc.) - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 23:31:53 -0000 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> Domestication in Heaven From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Domestication in Heaven > If you can create energy out of nothing at will, it's not much of a stretch > to go on to violating conservation of mass too. So I guess that 'stuff' in > Heaven is just free for the making out of thin air, if you know how -- wave, > wave, *bamf*. that's pretty much how i imagined it. it doesn't seem very *neavenly* for people to be digging plants up or shaving animals (unless they particularly enjoyed it). far too earthly for something that's meant to be after this life liam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 18:59:29 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Why Haagenti is the most dangerous Prince alive Just a theory I have about Haagenti's first Word Attunement. *Chomp* This attunement allowed Haagenti to become a Prince and is one of the most potentially devastating attunment's around. Haagenti's Chomp Attunment is simple in it's structure and profound in it's implications....well enough building you up...it allows all the forces Haagenti devours to be added to his own. When Haagenti devoured Mesarach he devoured all the power and strength of that prince and when he consumed the last force, he also recieved the word of Sloth as it became part of Gluttony. When he devoured Mariel, Oblivion became part of his word as well....the same with all the forces and words of the demons he destroys (1). No prince has yet to realize what a ticking time-bomb Haagenti is.....save Kronos who knows his Fate. The Archangels also fail to realize this...save Yves who knows that Lucifer has created the ultimate weapon in Haagenti which he will unleash soon in a bloodbath that makes Legion's destruction seem like a petting zoo (2). I think this explains alot. (1) I think it might be possible to give a scaled down version of his attunement to certain competant servitors whom he likes. Like the Word of Eating Ethereals who gets 1/10th the forces of every ethereal he devours or something like that...or scaled to a specific entity like the Attunement of Eating Gabrielle's chamberlain in which the resulting entity will gain all of Soldekai's knowledge and strength but that may ruin some of Lucifer's surprise..... (2) From Superiors 3, Yves's comment on Haagenti. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 19:56:51 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: IN> About Politics in IN... Ok, this isn't about which candidate is which kind of Angel or Demon, which I won't touch. Instead, this post is about which members of which Celestial Factions influence different parties. Take the Conservatives, for exemple. Clear influences from Heaven would be Dominic, Gabriel (Punishing convicted Killers), Khalid, Laurence, Marc and Michael (strong military, everyone is allowed to defend themselves with Guns). Influencing on Hell's side, Baal, Belial (Guns, Guns Guns), Haagenti, Mammon and Vapula. The Conservatives would have Eli, Janus, Jordi, Novalis (Especially her) and Zadkiel influencing things from Heaven's side, while Andrealphus, Asmodeus (Keep everyone but crooks from having guns), Lillith, Nybbas and Valefor would try to make the Liberals serve Hell's cause. Dunno about much of the others, but Malphas would obviously not care which party won the Election; For him, half the fun's over already... - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 20:08:51 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> If Bush and Gore were Celestials, what Choirs or Bands would they be? At 10:06 PM +0000 11/6/00, Jo Hart wrote: > >Well, I vote against then! IN can be a great satire, so I don't see >why we shouldn't satirise politics and politicians :) > >I had quite a cute thing going where The Game organised itself along >the lines of the British Civil Service in the first game I ran. >Anyone have any good ideas for hellish (or heavenly) organisations >that have just a little bit too much in common with some of the >Earthly organisations we just love to hate? Oh, the Game is wonderful at this time of year. When you hit the wire and it all comes down to numbers, no one even pretends it's about ideology or principle any more. It's all about who can get out their vote, who can engineer the right dirty tricks, who can entice that last undecided. It's Asmodeus all the way, Baby, and no matter who wins, it's all just another step in the Game. Right hand blue. Left hand red. Spin the spinner and try to cop a feel as we go to exit polls. (*Man* I can't wait for eight a.m. Wednesday.) - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 20:12:24 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Domestication in Heaven At 11:31 PM +0000 11/6/00, Liam Astley wrote: >From: "Charles Glasgow" >Subject: Re: IN> Domestication in Heaven > > >> If you can create energy out of nothing at will, it's not much of a >stretch >> to go on to violating conservation of mass too. So I guess that 'stuff' >in >> Heaven is just free for the making out of thin air, if you know how -- >wave, >> wave, *bamf*. > >that's pretty much how i imagined it. it doesn't seem very *neavenly* for >people to be digging plants up or shaving animals (unless they particularly >enjoyed it). far too earthly for something that's meant to be after this >life I wrote up a Choir of Angels and corrosponding Band of Demons, a long time ago, back when I was just a fanboy instead of a fanboy who very occasionally has some unsucky ideas, that functioned in that role in Heaven and Hell. The Aeons, who Fell into the Archons, their function to spin the stuff and notes of Heaven into buildings, property, and materials for goods and services. I'd post them, but really -- they suck. So take the concept as my gift, even if you don't decide to join Amway. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 17:17:45 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Nyuk, Nyuk, Nyuk... - --- Prodigal wrote: > Moaz, Angel of Creative Mayhem > "The world has too many oppresive people with no sense of humor. Hit > them with pies." Prodigal, you rock! I can't wait to unleash this on the Malakim of Judgement. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Snore and you sleep alone." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 19:31:42 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> About Politics in IN... Rolland Therrien wrote: > Take the Conservatives, for exemple. The problem with any such simplistic analysis is first of all defining what you mean by "conservative." For example, "liberal" and "conservative" means rather different things to Americans than to Europeans. The second is that celestials have a much narrower and "purer" view of _everything_, so I don't think there's a single Archangel or Demon Prince that you could definitively call "conservative" or "liberal" or "libertarian," as humans use the term. Lilith is often implied to be libertarian, for example, but she also embodies elements of both anarchism and despotism. Dominic may be "conservative," but there are both fascist and socialist principles that would appeal to him (ultimately, he's a statist). You can call Novalis a "liberal," (or more strongly, an idealistic communist) but that doesn't necessarily mean she gives a hoot about central planning for the economy or social engineering by the government, and I rather doubt she's either pro-choice or particularly feminist. Now, if you're assigning Superiors political stances for satirical purposes, go ahead and have Asmodeus pushing gun control while Dominic is trying to repeal Roe vs. Wade. However, I don't think any Superior would feel much affinity for any one mortal political faction. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 17:19:48 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> STUFF! - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > Hey, Mikey's got his axe(s), Larry's obviously got his > sword, Dave's got a hammer around here somewhere, just > where did he put it, crap, I left it at that last > construction job, I'll be forgetting my own head > next... > > Anyway. What about the rest of them? Does Marc have a > Vorpal Pen that _is_ mightier than 99.999999999% of > the swords out there? Does Kobal have a Squirting > Flower of Doom? Does Andre... never mind that one, > actually. Dommie has a gavel, for sure. And it's Novalis with the squirting flower. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Snore and you sleep alone." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 17:39:25 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Point? Point? What is this "point" you keep speaking of? - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > A Really, Really Tough Pen !!!!! ROACLMWO 08> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Snore and you sleep alone." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 17:45:20 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> A Lilim Archangel - --- Charles E Smith wrote: > > An interesting beginning. I look forward to seeing the > Attunements.<<< > > Thank you, but I'm drawing blanks on attunements for the Archangel of > Individuality. :( Allow me to start the ball rolling. Seraphim (restricted): the Most Holy Servitors of individuality can use their Resonance to identify those who, through their mode of expression, lie about who they really are. This also detects those who are lying to themselves about who they are. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Snore and you sleep alone." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 21:07:01 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Point? Point? What is this "point" you keep speaking of? At 9:07 PM -0800 11/2/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >Thanks for the answers on the feather question, guys. >:) > >Morgan (SAW) >Kyriotate of Destiny >Petitioner for the Word of, Now, will Beth laugh, or >whale on me for shamelessly borrowing two of her >characters, or laugh _and_ whale on me? Quite a >stumper, I'd say. Why should I whale on you? >A Really, Really Tough Pen >Of course, Hell has their own ARRTPs, held by >Servitors of Nitpicking and Fate (with the Ultimate >Dark ARRTP brandished by the Princess of Nitpicking). >The only real difference is that a Dark ARRTP cannot >be used to write anything that _isn't_ completely >serious. Actually, the Pen of Editing is a wonderous relic indeed, for, once one has obtained the Master Copy of a text, any editing applied to the Master Copy will be duplicated immediately in every other text in existance. Well, Yves' Library spawns another copy, and probably the Archive does as well, but aside from that. Of course, the trick is finding the Master Copy. >Oh, yes, and the ink is red. Totally. >Note: No Superiors were plucked during the making of >this writeup. - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 21:07:05 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: >Subject: IN> The Angels of Final Judgement At 9:26 PM -0800 11/4/00, James Walker wrote: >>From: "Charles Phipps" >>Some weird thoughts about the Angels of Final Judgement [...] >>1> The Repentant [...] >I'm sure that lots of Hellsworn 'pray for forgiveness' when they're about >to die. I can't see that achieving much. If they try to make amend and die >before doing so - that would probably be sufficient, not a last minute >grovel. Praying for forgiveness, nah. Suddenly, blindingly, utterly realizing that one had done WRONG, and WANTING to make it right, not to save your own skin, but because you had an epiphany and REALIZED the evil you had done and sincerely, purely, regretted it... Not praying for forgiveness, but being able to say, "God... I'm sorry." And mean it... Rare, yes. But possible? Maybe. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 21:07:10 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1899 At 2:41 AM -0800 11/4/00, Bevan Thomas wrote: >From: James Walker > >> Does Jordi hate killer whales? >> No? >> Then why hate the whalers? >> From his perspective they would be no different to any other predator. >> (excepting that fewer critters are getting killed) >Also, they are not under Jordi's control. So he would probably be a little >resentful of them. Oh yes, and humans spend a lot of unnecessary damage >overall, which makes Jordi dislike them on principle. One thing that may be being missed here... In Nomine animals aren't _sentient_, and don't necessarily have that good a concept of "right and wrong." While the "apple" is only symbolic in In Nomine, it's still _symbolic._ Humans have the ability to think ahead, and choose. And humans choose... to selfishly hunt animals to extinction. To re-arrange the landscape to suit themselves when they should have THOUGHT about it. (No, gypsy moths do _not_ spin silk. No, that type of sparrow does _not_ eat gypsy moths!) Jordi would not blame an animal for being what it is -- they are innocents. They know no better. They don't really have a concept of "right and wrong." The cat has no awareness that a mouse has any more existance than a piece of string. Humans... Humans hurt others and they're intelligent. Sentient. Equipped with free will. They know better. And they do it anyway. That's what's wrong with humans. From Jordi's perspective. Humans have enough of a clue, they _should_ be stewards of the Earth. And what happens? Extinctions that shouldn't have happened, razing rain forests, pollution, Spice Girls... Canon? Mebbe -- I think it's supported by material in the APG, and it at least makes sense to me. We'll see what happens in black and white eventually. - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 20:40:17 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> About Politics in IN... At 7:31 PM -0600 11/6/00, David Edelstein wrote: >Rolland Therrien wrote: >> Take the Conservatives, for exemple. > >The problem with any such simplistic analysis is first of all defining >what you mean by "conservative." For example, "liberal" and >"conservative" means rather different things to Americans than to >Europeans. I rather think, though I could be wrong, that Rolland meant the Conservatives, which is to say the Conservative party that's in various countries around the World, most notably England. At least, that's what I got from context. This is opposed to just straight conservatism, which has about as much relationship to a political party as progressivism has to, oh, the Labour party in England. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 20:57:57 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: >Subject: IN> The Angels of Final Judgement At 9:07 PM -0500 11/6/00, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 9:26 PM -0800 11/4/00, James Walker wrote: >>>From: "Charles Phipps" >>>Some weird thoughts about the Angels of Final Judgement [...] >>>1> The Repentant >[...] >>I'm sure that lots of Hellsworn 'pray for forgiveness' when they're about >>to die. I can't see that achieving much. If they try to make amend and die >>before doing so - that would probably be sufficient, not a last minute >>grovel. > >Praying for forgiveness, nah. Suddenly, blindingly, utterly realizing >that one had done WRONG, and WANTING to make it right, not to save your >own skin, but because you had an epiphany and REALIZED the evil you had >done and sincerely, purely, regretted it... Not praying for forgiveness, >but being able to say, "God... I'm sorry." And mean it... > >Rare, yes. But possible? Maybe. In game terms, maybe roll a d666? If you get a divine intervention, then maybe.... (And if you get an *infernal...*) - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 20:59:15 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1899 At 9:07 PM -0500 11/6/00, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >That's what's wrong with humans. From Jordi's perspective. Humans have >enough of a clue, they _should_ be stewards of the Earth. And what >happens? Extinctions that shouldn't have happened, razing rain forests, >pollution, Spice Girls... Yes. Exactly. Whalers can play the Spice Girls while hunting. This alone is enough to bring down swarm after swarm of Jordi's wrath. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 18:17:07 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Angels from Outer Space - --- Benjamin Acosta wrote: > Found this story on rec.arts.sf.fandom. I guess it gives credence to > everyone who says Elohim are Greys. Well, of course they are. And Mercurians are Nordics. And Kyrios are BEM's. Speaking of angels in space, there's an interesting series of books by Sharon Shinn (I may have posted this before, but I don't remember). The trilogy is Archangel, Jovah's Angel, and The Alleluia Files. Very good storytelling, and several of the major characters are angels (well, sort of). ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Snore and you sleep alone." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 20:19:54 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> About Politics in IN... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Whistling in the Dark" To: Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 7:40 PM Subject: Re: IN> About Politics in IN... > At 7:31 PM -0600 11/6/00, David Edelstein wrote: > >Rolland Therrien wrote: > >> Take the Conservatives, for exemple. > > > >The problem with any such simplistic analysis is first of all defining > >what you mean by "conservative." For example, "liberal" and > >"conservative" means rather different things to Americans than to > >Europeans. > > I rather think, though I could be wrong, that Rolland meant the > Conservatives, which is to say the Conservative party that's in > various countries around the World, most notably England. At least, > that's what I got from context. Rolland is French Canadian, so when he says 'Conservative' he doesn't usually mean the same thing that a US voter does. This linguistic gap has cropped up in conversations between us two before. *shrug* No big deal. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 19:06:52 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> I need guns. Lots and lots of guns. Big guns, bazookas, really big guns, guns with autofire, lasers, blasters, plasma shooters, needlers, sonic weapons, those neat things that turn ordinary water into razor-sharp icicles, flamethrowers, sixteen types of gas and chemical agents, and, of course, some suggestions on nukes. I also need hand weapons. Monomolecular string, neural agonizers, neutronium, durasteel chainsaws, force swords, sonic blades, vibroblades, and, of course, some suggestions on nukes. While I'm on the subject, I need armor. REAL armor, not the wimpy stuff that they've got in the books. Powered exoskeletons, battlesuits, Faraday suits, force shields, stasis shields, reaction shields, radiation shields, and of course, some suggestions on nukes. I need it all in IN terms... and I need it all (amusingly) prone to blow up, short circuit, reverse polarity, break, fold, spindle, mutilate, explode, _im_plode, eviscerate, and, of course, go up in a mushroom cloud. My marginal skill at adapting SJG_O_RPGS to IN just ain't up to this one. Any help will be greatly appreciated, and also fully attributed*. :) Morgan (SAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of Well, what do you THINK I need it for? What's the most glaring hole in that recent Superior writeup I did? *Not for money, alas, unless the universe smiles on us all, some happy day (probably far from now). :) ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 23:16:14 -0500 (EST) From: ydobyns@princeton.edu Subject: Re: IN> About Politics in IN... On Mon, 6 Nov 2000, David Edelstein wrote: [...] > However, I don't think any Superior > would feel much affinity for any one mortal political faction. Except Malphas. He likes *all* of them. The more the merrier. York Dobyns ydobyns@princeton.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 21:22:39 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> I need guns. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice Lane" To: Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 9:06 PM Subject: IN> I need guns. > Lots and lots of guns. Big guns, bazookas, really big > guns, guns with autofire, IN takes the approach of simply doubling the power of the weapon between autofire and single shot. I'd also suggest halving the range increment, to point out that autofire is nice if you can get all the bullets to hit, but it's a bit harder than just getting a single shot in. (Note -- the range increment on an SMG needs to be extended out to be at least equal with that of a pistol... makes sense, they both fire the same pistol ammo.) > lasers, Laser pistol -- Power 4, Acc +1. Laser rifle -- Power 5, Acc +2. > blasters, Acc 0, Power between 4 and 6. > plasma shooters, Acc -1, Power something really obnoxious, short range increment. > needlers, Zero to plus one Acc, low Power. Unless you're talking Gauss railgun needlers, in which case good Acc, Good power, *great* range. > sonic weapons, Six words -- Song Of Thunder. Via Mundane Means. > those neat things that turn ordinary water into > razor-sharp icicles, Same accuracy and power as an ordinary bullet, different special effect. > flamethrowers, Very short range, moderate power, special effect of continuing damage in later rounds, *great* accuracy (it's hard to miss with a flamethrower). > sixteen types of gas and chemical > agents, Poison. Isn't there rules for that? > and, of course, some suggestions on nukes. Draw a circle on the map. Make it a wide one. Anything within that circle not inside a Corporeal Song Of Shields is dead, vaporized, gone, pfft, hellooooooo Trauma. But celestial forms are unaffected. > I also need hand weapons. Monomolecular string, > neural agonizers, neutronium, durasteel chainsaws, > force swords, sonic blades, vibroblades, Stripped down into game mechanics terms, all of these are just fancy ways of saying "Higher-thannormal Power stats on a knife or sword-shaped object". > and, of course, some suggestions on nukes. Suggest #1 -- NPCs only. *g* [snip] > I need it all in IN terms... and I need it all > (amusingly) prone to blow up, short circuit, reverse > polarity, break, fold, spindle, mutilate, explode, > _im_plode, eviscerate, and, of course, go up in a > mushroom cloud. Oh, I get it. Somebody's going to go rampaging in Vaputech's goodies locker. (Lightning battle armor *never* blows up or short circuits.) Either picking a number between two and twelve and call it a Malfunction Number, and then roll 2d6 any time you feel like and if the result is under that number, than kablooey... .. or else just inflict whatever disasters you feel are dramatically appropriate at whatever time. > My marginal skill at adapting > SJG_O_RPGS to IN just ain't up to this one. So just fudge it. Speaking as a math-obsessed gearhead, I learned very rapidly that this was not the game in which to be a math-obsessed gearhead. Just throw #'s where they need to be to keep things interseting and balanced and fudge fudge fudge. > Any help will be greatly appreciated, and also fully > attributed*. :) > > Morgan (SAW) > Kyriotate of Destiny > Petitioner for the Word of Well, what do you THINK I > need it for? What's the most glaring hole in that > recent Superior writeup I did? Huh? Which one was that? > *Not for money, alas, unless the universe smiles on us > all, some happy day (probably far from now). :) - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 19:19:52 -0800 From: Ryan Elias Subject: Re: IN> About Politics in IN... ydobyns@princeton.edu wrote: > > On Mon, 6 Nov 2000, David Edelstein wrote: > [...] > > However, I don't think any Superior > > would feel much affinity for any one mortal political faction. > > Except Malphas. He likes *all* of them. The more the merrier. Correction. He hates them all, but the more there are, the happier he is ^_^ Cheers, Ryan ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1910 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.