From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Nov 17 10:40:22 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13958 for ; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:40:22 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id KAA30880 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:37:17 -0600 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:37:17 -0600 Message-Id: <200011171637.KAA30880@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1924 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, November 17 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1924 In this digest: Re: IN> The Future of In Nomine... IN> In Nomine and how to sell books Re: IN> In Nomine and how to sell books Re: IN> Re: An Affair of Honor IN>The Demon of Taxes Re: IN>The Demon of Taxes Re: IN> The Future of In Nomine... Re: IN> Demon for Baal Seed Re: IN> The Archangel of Time part 1 Re: IN> Christopher Seed Re: IN> In Nomine and how to sell books IN> Slightly warped, but apropos to Lilim Re: IN> Fluffy Michael "Contest" addendum... Re: IN>The Demon of Taxes Re: IN>The Demon of Taxes Re: IN>The Demon of Taxes Re: IN>The Demon of Taxes Re: IN>The Demon of Taxes Re: IN> In Nomine and how to sell books Re: IN> Christopher Seed Re: IN>The Demon of Taxes Re: IN>The Demon of Taxes Re: IN>The Demon of Taxes IN> The Astral Plane: an addition to the IN setting Re: IN>The Demon of Taxes ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 14:39:59 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> The Future of In Nomine... At 10:21 AM -0500 11/16/00, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 1:22 AM -0500 11/16/00, Whistling in the Dark wrote: > >>So, welcome to the In Nomine life support club. Here's your >>defibrulator and your secret decoder ring. > >If you're going to be doom and gloom** like that, If I came across as doom and gloom, I sincerely apologise. I don't feel doom and gloomish about the prospects, really -- because I think the list and other unofficial outlets are doing a very good job of keeping stuff alive. If anything, the list has been growing and brightening of late. I'm certainly having fun. (And not *entirely* because of Moe. Nyah. Actually, your recent contribitions have been a big part of it too.) >No, wait -- you're Eric. Come back _here_ and run the next episode so >Jesui can beat up demons s'more. It's wonderfully cathartic. Mmmm... demons.... >(** Y'all don't mope about not having a book every week, and I won't >tell you to buy 50 copies to send to Pat Robertson. Deal?) Hmmmmm... hmmmmmmm.... - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 14:57:42 -0800 From: tcp@zoomnet.net Subject: IN> In Nomine and how to sell books I admit some of the Superior books just don't shake me up. I just don't care about Vapula and for a large part Valephor. I *DID* however buy Yves and Gabrielle and Khalid's Superiors 3 before it left the Shelf and eventually Superiors 1 for no reason other than I needed some input on the stuff brought up in S3. I think the reason that In Nomine might have trouble selling new supplments is that it lacks perhaps due to it's strongest area... The ability to change. In Nomine is for the most part....mysteryless. What mystery that does exist is unable to be resolved and your not likely to see great changes. Khalid's change was an excellent step around this but is not something to really happen a great deal....however a supplement dealing exclusively with Gabrielle and the possibility of her Fall would be a big hit I think. That or a guide to playing Archangels etc. Perhaps something like "The Book of Religeons" where the inner secrets of Superiors in each are detailed. It has been playing itself a BIT safe I must admit. Of course I love the game to death and everything about it and recognize truly (why do I suspect David is preparing a reply to me even now?) the controversys around such. - -Charlie P.S. Imagine if the Book of Superiors 4 revealed that Valefor and Janus were the same person in some bizzare way and Vapula intended to reunite them somehow in a future supplement? - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 16:19:22 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine and how to sell books The thing is this is why I DON'T buy WW books anymore. They're selling a world, which is thrown like a carpet with an interesting pattern over a hideous stain (their system). Sure the WoD is an interesting setting and premise, but I'm just not interested in buying a setting. I like GURPS because it gives you tools. IN sits somewhere between the two, there is a good deal of lee way and the GMG helps you navigate that lee way. I think IN's problem has nothing to do with marketing. Let's take a nice good look at the subject matter of the game. Unlike WW grabbing a market that wasn't very into gaming before IN doesn't have as much out gamer appeal. More over I'm sure there are a good deal of people who do game and think IN is just a little offensive (I know one for instance, he's not a hard core gamer). Despite being a great game IN lacks appeal to the lowest common denominator. D&D is legendary, its a great starting game, its easy and you get to kick ass. GURPS can be played however you damned well please. WoD runs the gambit from melodramatic crappy faux angst bullshit spewing to hack and slash with fanged super heroes. IN by its very nature brings up some serious questions. Now I have to agree that a book on playing at various levels of power, and a guide to make ethereals viable PCs, would sell well to hard core fans. But I really don't think it would broaden the appeal at all. - -- Timothy, Angel of Rambling Ofanite of Creation ArchRival of Mathus If you have time to kill, why not kill it at http://ucsub.Colorado.edu/~grothtp/In.html ------------------------------ Date: 16 Nov 2000 23:45:33 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> Re: An Affair of Honor On Wed, 15 Nov 2000 23:42:17 Charles Glasgow wrote: >From: "Maurice Lane" >> MarkDEddy@aol.com >> >I saw Michael's favor as being a red rose on gold >> >silk - thus Gabriel. >> >> That could have its moments. >The thing that keeps me from speculating re: Michael-and-Gabriel is Michael >has known Gabriel as a male for 99.99999% of their lives... and while some >Archangels are androgynous, Michael has always been 'alpha male' in his >mindset and Gabriel is written as having been as being as distinctly male in >his prior life as Gabrielle is distinctly female now. i think you're forgetting that Beleth and Blandine were/are distinctly female, yet they were the first instance of archangelic love (Dreams and Fear). as those two proved, Superiors need not worry about gender issues when it comes to love and romance (of course, they didn't wind up with a happy ending yet...). -=|horsefly|=- Happiness is a laser designator and a friend in the artillery battalion. --Clayton A. Oliver ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 16:25:09 -0800 From: Charles E Smith Subject: IN>The Demon of Taxes > Superiors 8: War and Violence (Asmodeus, Baal, Belial, Saminga) Hah, this is the best one yet: "Death and Taxes"! :) <<< Thanks for the inspiration! I thought about this one all the way to class today. :) - ----------------------------------------- Irstia Lilim Baroness of the Game Demon of Taxes Corporeal Forces: 2 Strength: 4 Agility: 4 Ethereal Forces: 4 Intelligence: 12 Precision: 12 Celestial Forces: 4 Will: 12 Perception: 10 Word Forces: 12 Vessel: Human female/5 Skills: Fast-talk/6, Driving/6, Bureaucracy/6, Fighting/3, Savoir/Faire/6 Songs: Shields (All)/5, Healing (All)/5, Cacophony (Ethereal, Corporeal)/4, Darkness (All)/4, Thunder/4, Light (Ethereal)/4, Fire (Celestial, Corporeal)/4. Attunements: Lilim of the Game, Balseraph of the Game, Impudite of the Game, Knight of the Game, Captain of the Game, Baron of the Game, Demon of Taxes. Demon of Taxes: By looking into someone's eyes, Irstia can compel them to reveal all unreported sources of income and revenue. Rites: Financially ruin a total innocent. Cause glitches in the system that cause others to be unfairly taxed or overtaxed. Appearance: Irstia generally takes the appearance of a tall woman with raven-black hair and black-green eyes, something like a dark storm. She usually wears white, flowing robes lined in gold, with a necklace of solid gold around her neck. History and Personality: Irstia has been around since shortly after the dawn of human civilization, much to the bitterness of many oppressed humans through the ages. Irstia was originally created by Lilith as part of a deal that she made with Genubath, the Demon Prince of Rapine: one Lilim in exchange for Rapine's aid in fomenting a rebellion among the humans against an early human tyrant, thus promoting the Word of Freedom (of course, this led to vast looting and chaos, which also furthered Freedom and Factions). Irstia came up with the idea of having humans pay tribute to those who conquered them, and for its' implementation she was granted the word of Taxes. At the time, Genubath believed that the Word of Taxes was unimportant and easily ignored. Irstia changed that impression. In the early days of humanity, there was very little for her to do. Humanity was far more savage and cruel in those days, rarely resorting to diplomacy when they could just take what they pleased. It was ironically the work of an Archangel, David, that finally pushed Irstia up from near obscurity. The work of the Archangel of Stone in bringing together people to form and strengthen communities (not to mention the discovery of farming and agriculture) led to the formation of the first city-states, dominated by war-chiefs turned kings or by priestly hegemonies. These city-states required that people contribute food and resources to make them work, and in those early days one could find Irstia, convincing the kings and priests that they *needed* to crack down ruthlessly to take what was theirs by right and showing them the best ways to do it. Genubath was quite impressed as the centuries passed and this legalized form of Rapine came to become more common. Genubath was not the only one impressed. Asmodeus and Mammon both tried to convince Irstia to switch her alleigance, either to the Game or to Greed, and both offered much, but Irstia was happy in the ranks of Rapine and turned down such offers. It was not until Valefor stole the power of Genubath and the Prince of Rapine disappeared that Irstia really reconsidered those offers. She holds nothing but icy contempt and disdain for Genubath's successor, the self-styled Prince of Theft: Valefor. Irstia refused to serve under one she considered a traitor to Rapine, and she viewed Greed as but a pale echo of the glory of Genubath's Word, so she took up Asmodeus's standing offer: his Captain rank and a respected position in the ranks of the Game. Valefor was sorely displeased, as was Mammon, but Asmodeus took her with as much glee as a Djinn ever feels. By the time the Tokugawa family had risen to power in Japan, Irstia had won herself her Barony. The feudal society of medieval Europe had proven very fertile ground for the Word of Taxes and the bureaucratic oppression it brought. Then again, so had the Roman Empire and the Persian Empire, and just about every kingdom or government in history in some way or another. Part of Irstia's appeal, as far as Asmodeus is concerned, is her willingness to combine Lilim charm and "friendliness" with a stunning intelligence, and a disdainful contempt for things like the rights of others or life in general. Irstia is aloof, not as overly concerned with her Word as one might expect. Her interest has always been humanity, so she's quite willing to let Infernal politics, for lack of a better expression, go to Hell. Many of her fellow Lilim hate her and her name is spoken with a curse at the Guildhall for she has quite often sold out her sisters to advance her own purposes. Lilith will not speak of her at all, except to glare at the ceiling. Irstia doesn't care. As long as she's crushing innocent mortals, the other Lilim can hate all they like for all she cares. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 18:43:49 -0600 From: "Erich S. Arendall" Subject: Re: IN>The Demon of Taxes > > Superiors 8: War and Violence (Asmodeus, Baal, Belial, Saminga) > Hah, this is the best one yet: "Death and Taxes"! :) <<< > Thanks for the inspiration! I thought about this one all the way to class > today. :) > ----------------------------------------- > Irstia > Lilim Baroness of the Game > Demon of Taxes I liked! ...But IRS-tia? I'm not sure weather to laugh or cry.