From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Nov 19 20:59:28 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01085 for ; Sun, 19 Nov 2000 20:59:27 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id UAA22031 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 19 Nov 2000 20:59:28 -0600 Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 20:59:28 -0600 Message-Id: <200011200259.UAA22031@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1929 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, November 19 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1929 In this digest: Re: IN> The Astral Plane: an addition to the IN setting Re: IN> Hi. IN> Dominic's Trials Re: IN> Re: An Affair of Honor Re: IN> Dominic's Trials IN> Cain IN> Re: Cain IN> Re: Cain Re: IN> Re: Cain IN> The Defense of the Library-Part Two Re: IN> Re: Cain Re: IN> The Demon of Truth Re: IN> Dominic's Trials Re: IN> Re: Cain Re: IN> Cain Re: IN> Re: Cain IN> Difficulty getting something to gel. Re: IN> Re: Cain Re: IN> Re: Cain Re: IN> Re: Cain Re: IN> Difficulty getting something to gel. Re: IN> Re: Cain Re: IN> Difficulty getting something to gel. IN> The Angel of Sacrifice Re: IN> Re: Cain ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 22:45:51 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> The Astral Plane: an addition to the IN setting >On the Celestial Plane, there's Heaven and, at the other end of >infinity, Hell. And in between? Well, there's not much, but there *is* >a "between" area; it's not like you can look over Heaven's wall and into >Hell. Oddly enough, there is something like this IMC. I hadn't worked it out in quite this much detail, though... I came up with a location that went over well with my players. Descend one of the endless twisty trails that go down the outside of Gabriel's volcano, and you eventually arrive at The Lookout. It's a grey, slippery ledge of frozen lava, past which a cold wind blows endlessly on its way from nowhere to nowhere. Peer over the edge, and you have a startlingly close view of the Gates of Hell... damned souls pouring through, two Angels of Final Judgment, the works. Gabriel's Malakim come there to swear oaths, and other angels occasionally to meditate upon loss and evil. >As you get away from the cities, the steppe gives way to silvery desert, >the overcast lifts, the sun and moon become fainter and eventually >disappear, and the stars crowd in piercing, glittering hordes. Then the >desert developes dunes, which become more and more surreal in their >contortions until they fall away, leaving you in a void of stars. Heh. >The Doomless: >These are human souls who achieved neither Fate nor Destiny and are >waiting for their next incarnations. They form the largest population >on the Astral Plane, even though any individual is guaranteed to have >only a temporary stay. The Doomless may also include those who are not >slated for reincarnation, but simply haven't disbanded yet -- a theory >very unpopular with the Doomless themselves. IMC these folks are... processed... rather quickly, shedding themselves of Earthly memories. There's a _very_ secre corner of Heaven where this takes place, which my PCs once got to visit... >Pre-Adamites: >These are the souls of human species and races that pre-date Adam and >Eve and their descendants. They're with Jordi IMC. >Grey Spirits: >These are celestials who are not standard angels or demons. Hum. It's canon that all celestials are one or the other. Still, Outcasts and Renegades do sort of blur very close to each other sometimes. >Some were >fence-sitters during the contentious times just before the Fall and, >being unpopular with both sides, left. IMC these guys ended up Outcast or in Hell, but it's a neat notion. >Grey Spirits include a relatively high percentage of non-standard Choirs >(and sometimes Bands) -- the literally unearthly things that almost >never go to the Corporeal realm, or creatures that seem to date from a >time when the choirs were less well-defined than they are now, or >perhaps they have slowly evolved away from their original natures, here >where they are neither Fallen nor Unfallen. These are things that look >*sort* of like seraphim, cherubim, etc., but not quite. They may have >atypical behaviors, resonnances, or dissonance conditions. Oh, I really like this. I have a couple of non-standard Choir members IMC - -- one of them, Eos the Very Old Ofanite, has been posted to this list at least once -- but I hadn't thought of having a sort of celestial retirement home for them. >Death Angels: >There *are* real angels in the Astral realm, servitors of the >mysterious, reclusive (but canonical) Archangel of Death. Yeah! More on this guy sometime would be nice. Nice writeup. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 22:31:15 -0600 From: "Tafka J." Subject: Re: IN> Hi. At 9:09 AM +0000 11/18/00, darkness@i-manila.com.ph wrote: > 1) Does a Balseraph of Fate with the Malakite resonance take oaths? Yes, but the first two _required_ Oaths need not be the same. Unless you're like Moe/Maurice/Morgan (and a sick individual indeed). > 2) As I understand it, Mercurians become dissonant when they turn to > violence, unless it is directed at diabolicals. Is a Balseraph of Fate > with the Mercurian resonance restricted to violence against fellow infernals? Mercurians aren't necessarely _against_ violence, otherwise they'd all be like Mercurians of Flowers. . . And really useless characters. A Mercurian knows when to us diplomacy, and when to hand-wave the Malakite in to provide final judgment. That being said, the "Balcurian" is limited in a similar fashion. > 3) [Kronos & Yves using their own attunements] FNORD. Yves is not a member of any known Choir. People _claim_ Kronos is a Balseraph, but then the only person who knows for certain is Lucifer. . . And we know _he_ tells the Truth ALL THE TIME. > 4) I know this has been answered already, I just want to be sure. Can the > Balseraph of Fate Attunement and the Master of Divine Knowledge Distinction > provide a celestial with the resonances of: > a) Grigori? FNORD. > b) Bright Lilim? FNORD. (Yes, I also was the first one to ask this particular question IIRC. I do believe the answer is in the In Nomine FAQ. . .) > c) Menunim? FNORD. That is to say, that Canon shall be silent, and whatever you do as Games Operation Director is your business. > 5) If the concept behind a Balseraph of Fate is that it is able to lie to > the Symphony well enough to masquerade as an angel, shouldn't it regenerate > Essence at sunrise? Maybe they just _believe_ the Sun going down is Sunrise. . . Delusions are handy things. Just ask the "Angels" in Shal-Mari. > Or, even more interesting, shouldn't it regenerate Essence _twice_ a day? Would then be annoying, and besides you can just get yourself a Relic to do the same. > 6) Can the Balseraph of Fate Attunement fool a Malakite of Destiny? FNORD. Though my guess is that on a Check 6, the Malakite will know the Balseraph as it truly is. Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur # http://www.thrifty.net/~tafkaj/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 02:06:38 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: IN> Dominic's Trials No no no, not one of the story threads. I need some info for something I'm writing, and the Angelic Player's Guide which I've just bought, is lacking much of anything on the laws of angels, which I'd expected to find within(and thus had put on order, sight unseen). (I don't usually do this on the list, but I gotta rant for a second. Was this an oversight? By "the laws of angels," does the book refer to the conditions of Dissonance and its shedding which are discussed in the Choir writeups? I was expecting something like the crimes for which Judgment may actually have someone brought to trial, the punishments that may be meted out, when a lesser servant of Judgment may preside, whether an appeal may be made if so, the rights of blessed souls, whether an area may be off-limits to human souls, etc. What would, for example, have happened to Heaven if God hadn't intervened in Michael's trial, Dominic prepared to punish Michael, Michael said, effectively, "screw you," and broke Dommy like a twig? Gabriel stormed out of his trial, and yet no major measures are being taken to retrieve him, as a human court would do someone who fled judgment. Have I missed something? Is this in Superiors 1, maybe? Because if it is, I'm sorry, and I'll get Sup1 when it's not on the other side of a vast void called being broke.) Anyway, the basic question is this: has Dominic *ever* found someone innocent? Has a hotly contested defense ever *worked*? Or does he not bring someone to trial until he's so sure they're guilty that the verdict is already decided? Even if he hasn't found someone innocent, would you call it possible in a campaign of fairly canon brightness and contrast? Or is this all up to personal interpretation of the Archangel of Judgment and his Word? William ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 02:45:55 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Re: An Affair of Honor At 4:16 PM -0800 11/18/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 18:07:09 -0500 >From: Whistling in the Dark >[Snip] > >Ow. Ow. Ow. > >Don't DO that! > >:) > >Moe YES! I broke Moe! I broke Moe! Yay! - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 12:21:11 -0500 From: damienw@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Dominic's Trials On Sun, 19 Nov 2000 02:06:38 -0500 "William J. Keith" writes: > Anyway, the basic question is this: has Dominic *ever* found someone > innocent? Has a hotly contested defense ever *worked*? Or does he > not bring someone to trial until he's so sure they're guilty that the > verdict is already decided? Even if he hasn't found someone innocent, > would you call it possible in a campaign of fairly canon brightness > and contrast? Or is this all up to personal interpretation of the > Archangel of Judgment and his Word? Could Dominic find someone innocent? Certainly. Just keep in mind, when you've got Seraphim, Elohites, and Malakim to draw from, Heaven's courts are FAR more reliable than earthly ones, and Dominic has gotten very, very good at what he does... even so, he does have a Word-bound under him as a sort of "Public Defender" - while tricks of law do not work, this angel (who is in Book o' Servitors, IIRC) tries to find mitigating circumstances to lighten the sentence. Just in case, you see. - --- damienw[et]juno.com "SOY! Soy makes you strong! Strength crushes enemies! SOY!" ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 11:22:51 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Cain This one's been floating around in the back of my head for the last few days. Frankly, I'm surprised nobody's done it yet... :) Moe Cain The LORD said, "What have you done? Listen! Your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground. Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand. When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops to you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth." Cain said to the LORD, "My punishment is more than I can bear. Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me." But the LORD said to him, "Not so; if anyone kills Cain, he will suffer vengeance seven times over." Then the LORD put a mark on Cain so that no one that found him would kill him. So Cain went out from the LORD'S presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden. - - Genesis 4:10-16 (New International Version) Corporeal Forces: 4 Strength: 6 Agility: 10 Ethereal Forces: 5 Intelligence:10 Precision: 10 Celestial Forces: 5 Will: 10 Perception: 10 Skills: Dodge/3, Emote/6, Fighting/3, Knowledge (Lore of the War/6, Lore of Relics/6, Lore of the Lost/6), Languages (Just about all of them/3), Ranged Weapon/1 (pistol), Savoir-Faire/1, Small Weapon/1 (knife) Songs: Banishing (Corporeal/1), Calling (Corporeal/1), Creation (Corporeal/1), Darkness (Corporeal/1), Direction (Corporeal/1), Empathy (Corporeal/1), Fire (Corporeal/1), Forgetting (Corporeal/1), Freedom (Corporeal/1) Harmony (Corporeal/1), Light (Corporeal/1), Might (Corporeal/1), Retribution (Corporeal/1), Spirit Speech (Corporeal/1), Succor (Corporeal/1), Symphony (Corporeal/3), Visions (Corporeal/1), Water (Corporeal/1). Note that Cain doesn’t exactly advertise the fact that he has access to some lost Songs. 'Relics': The Mark of Cain. This isn't precisely a relic, of course, but it's close enough. The Mark is an unknown word, thought to be from _very_ Old Angelic, inscribed on Cain's forehead. The Mark is only consciously visible to those with Symphonic Awareness, but mortals and animals will be subconsciously aware of it. The Mark apparently is responsible for making Cain immortal: he cannot die of natural causes, will eventually recover from the worst wounds, never gets sick and never ages. However, if he spends more than one month in the same locale, the Mark becomes extraordinarily painful. Cain can only stop the pain by traveling at least 100 miles away, and not return to the original place for a full year. Mortals will find themselves fiercely resisting the idea of killing Cain, coming up with the flimsiest excuses to avoid doing so. Those with Symphonic Awareness will not suffer from this. However, angels aren't about to disobey God, demons know that Lucifer (for reasons of his own) has declared this mortal off-limits, and there's quite a bit of mythology among those in the know about just what dark Fate awaits the killer of Cain. Note that none of this precludes someone from beating him to a pulp: they'll just avoid killing him. Cain has seen everything. He's been wandering the earth for the last twenty thousand years, and has had the unenviable advantage of watching the whole War, from start to finish. He's also watched his name became a synonym for murder, violence and bestial behavior. By any rational standard, one would think that Cain's been punished enough for his crime. At various times in human history, he's been hung, stabbed, crucified, beaten, tortured, shot, burned, gassed, buried alive and generally been at the brink of death more times than he can count. There were times when he was driven mad by the pain and endless days... but he always recovered. He'll always recover. In many ways, that's the worst part. Why he's still here is a topic of some debate. Demons mostly use Cain as another bit of evidence that God's a tyrannical master, ready to inflict punishments all out of proportion to the crime, although some just say that Lucifer has a special plan for this particular mortal. Angels, on the other hand, suspect that Cain's punishment was actually an act of mercy: he has obviously met his Fate, but the Eden Experiment that eventually caused him to be born was tainted by celestial interference. There's a faint chance that he might achieve his Destiny, and so avoid a rigged damnation. Unfortunately, nobody really knows. If properly used, Cain is an amazing resource of information. He's had a ringside seat for the entire War, and his memory is excellent (too excellent, really). Long lost prophecies, ancient battles, dead languages, legends of artifacts and Songs: the more obscure it is, the likelier it is that it's in his head somewhere. By now, he's so weary that he'll tell anyone anything they want to know. Cain's personality and whereabouts will differ, depending on the Brightness of the campaign. In Bright Campaigns he's definitely more hopeful than above, and can be found doing any job that allows for frequent travel. He might even have a family (or twelve). Cain, in this setting, is sure that there's a reason for his endless existence, and will be actively trying to discover it. He will help those who he considers on the side of Right, but you have to convince him first that you actually are on the side of Right. Best if you also have something to trade for the information you need. In Dark campaigns, however, he's a bum. Go to the darkest corner of the darkest city on Earth, and there Cain will be, futilely attempting to drink (or drug) himself to death. Getting information will be easier to arrange (bring a good supply of any drug), but Cain's a malicious bastard on this setting, so be prepared to get information that's misleading and incomplete (although he's usually too cowardly to lie outright). In silly campaigns, drop the 'need to wander' requirement (or tone it down drastically): he's tending bar in your favorite watering hole. He's also addicted to answering questions obscurely, or in languages that haven't been spoken in four thousand years, but that's the price you pay for getting your intelligence from a bartender. ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 14:04:05 EST From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: IN> Re: Cain Excellent post, Moe! I'm printing this one! One question, though. Does Cain talk like Vincent Price? (inside joke. 2 points to whoever gets it.) Reverend Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 14:04:06 EST From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: IN> Re: Cain Excellent post, Moe! I'm printing this one! One question, though. Does Cain talk like Vincent Price? (inside joke. 2 points to whoever gets it.) Reverend Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 16:34:49 -0500 From: damienw@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Re: Cain On Sun, 19 Nov 2000 14:04:05 EST BillionSix@aol.com writes: > Excellent post, Moe! I'm printing this one! One question, though. > Does Cain talk like Vincent Price? > > (inside joke. 2 points to whoever gets it.) > Spoken by Matthew the Raven, in _The Sandman_, IIRC. Actually, since it *is* so tempting to steal a bit from Gaiman, you might make the IN Cain not just knowledgeable, but a self-appointed keeper of secrets and mysteries, considering it his "Word". He'd be considerably less depressed in this version, and willing to deal with anyone... if you can find him. The keeper is the biggest mystery of all. - --- damienw[et]juno.com "SOY! Soy makes you strong! Strength crushes enemies! SOY!" ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 14:17:35 -0800 From: Charles E Smith Subject: IN> The Defense of the Library-Part Two As promised, the follow-up to the first installment. :) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ In the Great Library of Heaven, Gorto, Kyriotate of Archives, was quite busy. The Archangel had assigned it to the task of organizing a new series of books that had just been brought in, as well as dealing with some sort of broken link on the Archives web-page. The Kyriotate was busy doing what Kyriotates do: multitasking, when the encoded passwords scanned across its' mind. Gorto quickly stopped its' other task, focusing its' being entirely on the small laptop computer for a moment before disengaging and floating off quickly past a small gathering of conversing angels. It was a simple matter to find Beth. She had retreated to the section of the Library marked "Periodicals", and Gorta could hear her quiet voice from where he floated. "Now then, let me explain to you how to handle yourselves when Servitors of The Wind come knocking. I understand that last time some Ofanim of The Wind showed up the Perodical section looked like a hurricane hit it. So today we're going to pretend that I'm a Windy. Now, what do you do?" Gorto saw the confused looks on the faces of the Relievers and one raised a tendril. "Yes Maximus?" "Run for cover?" A different Reliever piped up "I know, I know! Bury yourself under a pile of books and play dead until they go away!" A third Reliever. "No no! Pretend that you're one of Destiny's Servitors and send them on a wild goose chase about the Library!" Beth was shaking her head. "No no. Remember that the Windies are not *bad* just chaotic and...yes Gorto?" She turned to the hovering Kyriotate, her silver eyes almost as much of a mystery as was Yves himself. Gorto swallowed then began. "Milady, we've just recieved bad news from your...your representative in the Archives. If you'll follow me...?" Beth nodded, following Gorto back to the laptop computer in the Library proper and taking a look at the encoded message. It read: "My Lady Beth, This is Serena, Lilim of Archives in the Archives of Kronos. Please prepare the Library for an attack! A Balseraph of Technology named Zakandra has found a way to access Yves's connections to all bodies of knowledge through the Library. Kronos, Baal, and Vapula have been meeting to discuss how they can exploit this. I can say no more for fear of being traced, good luck!" Beth frowned as she shook her head. "They'll not sack this repository of knowledge without a fight. Thank you Gorto." She turned and walked off hurriedly, feeling the Library shift about her, carrying her to the cozy little corner where the Archangel of Destiny sat, sipping from a mug of tea while reading "War and Peace". Beth walked over and bowed respectfully. "Sir, we have a problem." Yves looked up, his eyes warm and sparkling. "Yes my dear?" "Sir, I've just found out that some Technology-Servitor found a way into the Library through your access pathways and they plan to attack the Library. I don't know when, but I trust my operative in the Archives. What should we do?" Yves's smile was still benign. "Follow your heart, my daughter. It will guide you to your Destiny." "Yes sir." Beth bowed again, totally mystified, and set off into the Library again. She wasn't watching where the Library took her, so she found herself near where she had read the message on the computer. There was a Seraph of Dreams in flowing white robes, speaking quietly with what looked to be an Ofanite of Faith about the nature of faith in one's dreams compared to faith in the reality about one. Next to them, a Mercurian of Flowers was lecturing about how violence in all forms for whatever reason was bad. Of course, his audience: a Mercurian of Stone and a Malakite of War, were largely ignoring or scorning the lecture. Beth realized that she might have what she needed right now, so she stepped in. "Excuse me, but I need your help." The angels looked up at her and all bowed or otherwise showed signs of respect in the presence of an Archangel. Beth looked at them. "Please get word to your Superiors. The Library is about to be under attack. I will explain the details a little later. Just go." It was with gratifying speed that the angels stood, bowed, and departed. It was within an hour that the Archangel of Archives stood looking out over a rag-tag collection of angels of Stone, War, The Sword, Faith, Archives, and Destiny. Most of these were Malakim or Seraphim, with a scattering of Elohim and Kyriotates amongst them, about a hundred in all. Beth dreaded the thought that fighting in the Library might come to pass, but if it could not be helped, than at least the fight would not be unequal. The Archangel reflected that reinforcements would be arriving soon anyways, and then turned to face her new-formed army, a grim look on her face... - ---------------------------------------- I'll do part three a little later, including Serena's difficulties on her side of things. :) ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 17:13:30 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Re: Cain At 4:34 PM -0500 11/19/00, damienw@juno.com wrote: > > Actually, since it *is* so tempting to steal a bit >from Gaiman, you might make the IN Cain not just >knowledgeable, but a self-appointed keeper of secrets >and mysteries, considering it his "Word". He'd be >considerably less depressed in this version, and willing >to deal with anyone... if you can find him. The keeper >is the biggest mystery of all. So, what did he do *after* escaping from Gebbeleth's pit of despair? - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 14:53:02 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> The Demon of Truth - --- Charles Phipps wrote: > Moriel > Duke of the Shattered Mind > Captain of the Broken Promise > Captain of Integrity > Knight of Influence > Balseraph of Fate > The Demon of Truth This has potential. He would make a great Word-bound patron for demonic PC's. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Snore and you sleep alone." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 14:56:59 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Dominic's Trials - --- damienw@juno.com wrote: > Could Dominic find someone innocent? Certainly. [snip] > even so, he does have a Word-bound under him as a sort of > "Public Defender" - while tricks of law do not work, > this angel (who is in Book o' Servitors, IIRC) tries to find > mitigating circumstances to lighten the sentence. If you're referring to Mihr, the Angel of Mercy, she's in the APG. If you mean someone else, kindly ignore my humble ramblings. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Snore and you sleep alone." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 14:58:35 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Re: Cain - --- BillionSix@aol.com wrote: > Excellent post, Moe! I'm printing this one! One question, though. > Does Cain talk like Vincent Price? The real question is, can he _rap_ like Vincent Price (get THAT inside joke if you can)? ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Snore and you sleep alone." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 15:04:53 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Cain - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > Cain AAAAAAARGH! You have no idea how much I wish I'd thought of this! You suck! YOU ROCK! Moe is the man! Moe! Moe! Moe! ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Snore and you sleep alone." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 15:11:44 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Re: Cain - --- damienw@juno.com wrote: > Actually, since it *is* so tempting to steal a bit > from Gaiman, you might make the IN Cain not just > knowledgeable, but a self-appointed keeper of secrets > and mysteries, considering it his "Word". He'd be > considerably less depressed in this version, and willing > to deal with anyone... if you can find him. The keeper > is the biggest mystery of all. Gaiman isn't the only source from comics on this one. I'm showing my age here, but DC Comics used to have two companion horror titles called House of Mystery and House of Secrets. The hosts of these titles were two gentlemen known as Cain and Abel. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Snore and you sleep alone." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 15:18:10 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Difficulty getting something to gel. Hey, has anyone done an Angel of Hymns/Sacred Music yet? And, if not, anyone got a good Superior suggestion for that one? Creationer IST the Sword or Fire works, of course, but I want something more esoteric. :) Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 23:28:19 -0000 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Cain From: "Michael Walton" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Cain > Gaiman isn't the only source from comics on this one. I'm showing my > age here, but DC Comics used to have two companion horror titles called > House of Mystery and House of Secrets. The hosts of these titles were > two gentlemen known as Cain and Abel. yep, same cain and abel as the ones who appeared in sandman. they also popped up in alan moore's swamp thing run liam ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 17:29:42 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Cain - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Walton" To: Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2000 4:58 PM Subject: Re: IN> Re: Cain > > --- BillionSix@aol.com wrote: > > Excellent post, Moe! I'm printing this one! One question, though. > > Does Cain talk like Vincent Price? > > The real question is, can he _rap_ like Vincent Price > (get THAT inside joke if you can)? "Thriller". Come on, that's *easy*. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 15:32:14 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Cain As near as I can understand it: Originally there were two Horror comics: House of Secrets and House of Mystery. They starred Abel and Cain respectively as horror hosts. They were brothers, but with the exception of a couple of in-jokes, they were not really meant to be the Biblical Cain and Abel. Then, in an issue of Swamp Thing by Alan Moore, it is revealed that the house of Secrets and the House of Mystery exist in the Realm of Dreams, and not only are Cain and Abel horror hosts, but they are the guardians of a specific kind of story: for Abel its secrets, and for Cain its mysteries. Furthermore, Alan Moore revealed that they were in fact the Cain and Abel of the Bible and Cain is constantly killing Abel throughout history, with Abel constantly being resurrected. Neil Gaiman has always been a great fan of Alan Moore, and in fact, Alan Moore was what led Neil Gaiman to becoming a comic writer. Therefore, when he starting writing his comic series (Sandman) about Morpheus, lord of the Dream Realm, he used Cain and Abel, and specifically developed and expanded upon the elements of Cain and Able that Alan Moore introduced. He also played up the Biblical side of Cain and Abel more then other authors did. For instance, when Morpheus needs to send a deligate to Hell, he sends Cain, as Cain is the one person Lucifer cannot kill (the Mark of Cain). Also, a woman passing into the Dreaming sees Cain and Able arguing about the sacrifices they are giving to God (vegetables or a lamb) and then Cain kills Able. As a side note, Genesis does say that after Cain killed Abel, he went into the Land of Nod. Nod is now identified with dreams and dreaming. Does this mean that in In Nomine, Cain entered the Marches after God marked him? - ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Walton To: Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2000 3:11 PM Subject: Re: IN> Re: Cain > > Gaiman isn't the only source from comics on this one. I'm showing my > age here, but DC Comics used to have two companion horror titles called > House of Mystery and House of Secrets. The hosts of these titles were > two gentlemen known as Cain and Abel. > / ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 18:37:14 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Difficulty getting something to gel. At 3:18 PM -0800 11/19/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >Hey, has anyone done an Angel of Hymns/Sacred Music >yet? > >And, if not, anyone got a good Superior suggestion for >that one? Creationer IST the Sword or Fire works, of >course, but I want something more esoteric. :) Faith or the Sword are my immediate thoughts. Destiny would have an outside chance. Creation I don't actually think is all that obvious, for a Word like this one. It works, but I don't think it has a lock. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 18:44:05 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Re: Cain At 11:28 PM +0000 11/19/00, Liam Astley wrote: >From: "Michael Walton" >Subject: Re: IN> Re: Cain > > >> Gaiman isn't the only source from comics on this one. I'm showing my >> age here, but DC Comics used to have two companion horror titles called >> House of Mystery and House of Secrets. The hosts of these titles were >> two gentlemen known as Cain and Abel. > >yep, same cain and abel as the ones who appeared in sandman. they also >popped up in alan moore's swamp thing run And Plop. Never forget Plop. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 18:06:06 -0600 From: "Tafka J." Subject: Re: IN> Difficulty getting something to gel. At 3:18 PM -0800 11/19/00, Maurice Lane wrote: > Hey, has anyone done an Angel of Hymns/Sacred Music yet? Not that I know of. . . > And, if not, anyone got a good Superior suggestion for that one? Creationer > IST the Sword or Fire works, of course, but I want something more > esoteric. :) Try using a Kyriotate of Animals. (But, for some reason, maybe I'm channeling Obeath; AKA Hitherby.) Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur # http://www.thrifty.net/~tafkaj/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 17:41:54 -0800 From: Charles E Smith Subject: IN> The Angel of Sacrifice Inspired by some comments on the nature of selfishness versus selflessness, here is an angel. Forgive the briefness, I feel a little faint. - ---------------------------------- Constance Kyriotate Master of Protection Angel of Sacrifice Corporeal-4: Strength: 7 Agility: 8 Ethereal-5: Intelligence: 12 Precision: 8 Celestial-4: Will: 6 Perception: 12 Skills: Martial Arts/6, Small Weapons use (handguns)/4, Driving/4, Computer use/5, Savoir Faire/6, Languages (Japanese, English)/5. Songs: Shields (All)/5, Direction (Ethereal)/4, Attraction (Ethereal)/6, Charm (Ethereal, Celestial)/6, Thunder/6, Cacophony (All)/6, Darkness (All)/6, Light (All)/6, Harmony (Ethereal)/5. Attunements: Kyriotate of Protection, Malakite of Protection, Ofanite of Protection, Elohite of Protection, Aura of Divinity, Succor, Vassal of Protection, Friend of the Guard, Master of the Watch, Angel of Sacrifice. Angel of Sacrifice: At a cost of 4 Essence, Constance can convince a person that they must perform some action of sacrifice that benefits another. Rites: Convince a person to do a selfless act for another. History: Constance is a fairly young angel, in fact, she's only three years old, yet already she holds a Word. How she got that Word is something of a story. Three years ago, Zadkiel, the Archangel of Protection, created a Kyriotate named Constance and sent her to Earth to help protect and defend the poor mortals from falling into temptation and sin. Constance was rather confused about how to go about this, so she wandered away from the Tether of Protection in Tokyo she had arrived at and wandered around aimlessly. It was then that she ran across a posse of demons led by a Djinn of Hardcore. They were looking to start a riot amongst the poor and needy. Constance immediately rushed into action, possessing the body of a young man and charging the demon. Of course, being inexperienced, the Hardcore-Servitors swatted her host down like a fly. The Djinn was going to kill the host, so Constance floated forth and took the blow. She spent the next hour or so taking the blows from the Hardcore-Servitors in order to protect the innocent, and in so doing she attracted the attention of a group of Stone-Servitors, who, after the first blow, wiped the floor with Hardcore. A grateful Constance went to work on the innocent people, and although she was terribly injured, she started possessing the police who arrived to take away the shattered vessels and convincing them to help those in need by sacrificing their own incomes to help those less fortunate. From there, Constance spent the next year in Tokyo, inspiring people to sacrifice of their own resources and even of their own lives when necessary to help others in need. She sacrificed a great deal of her own selves many times, taking extensive damage from demons before she would not let them hurt others in her presence. Eventually, after a year, Zadkiel recalled Constance to Heaven when she was on the very verge of soul-death. When she recovered, she was given the Word of Sacrifice by the Seraphim Council, and now works to forward that Word as best she can. Personality: Constance is naive and idealistic, but determined to see to it that no one suffers, even if that means that she must suffer in their place. She loves inspiring people to believe that selflessness is good and believes that with love and patience all will work to the good. She is known for her mysterious, ineffable smiles (her fellow Protection-Servitors blame it on the time she spent visiting the Great Library). ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 18:51:14 -0800 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Cain Our spies report that on 03:32 PM 11/19/00 -0800, Bevan Thomas said: >As a side note, Genesis does say that after Cain killed Abel, he went into >the Land of Nod. Nod is now identified with dreams and dreaming. Does this >mean that in In Nomine, Cain entered the Marches after God marked him? Oh! And there, perhaps he died in the Purity Crusade or (maybe better) was just threatened? Perhaps that is why Uriel was recalled. I find that to be an interesting idea. Imagine if the Seraphim Council members not only couldn't determine which of the common reasons for Uriel's recall were valid, but indeed none of those common theories were even close to the real reason... Sean ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1929 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.