From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Nov 20 17:00:01 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00362 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 16:59:59 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id QAA01855 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 16:58:37 -0600 Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 16:58:37 -0600 Message-Id: <200011202258.QAA01855@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1931 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, November 20 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1931 In this digest: Re: IN> Hi. Re: IN> Dominic's Trials Re: IN> Zadkiel Seed Re: IN> Dominic's Trials Re: IN> Re: Cain Re: IN> Re: Cain Re: IN> Difficulty getting something to gel. Re: Abracadabra (was Re: IN> Selflessness vs. Selfishness) Re: IN> The Defense of the Library-Part Two Re: IN> Re: Cain Re: IN> Dominic's Trials Re: IN> Dominic's Trials Re: IN> Re: Cain Re: IN> Dominic's Trials IN> Servitor Attunements, Superiors, and Rambling Re: IN> Selflessness vs. Selfishness Re: IN> Re: Difficulty getting something to gel Re: IN>The Demon of Taxes Re: IN> Balseraph of Fate Questions IN> Re: Abracadabra Re: IN> Balseraph of Fate Questions Re: IN> Cain Re: IN> Hi. Re: IN> Zadkiel Seed IN> Abel (was Cain) Re: IN> A little Something for the Holidays... Re: IN> The Angel of Communism Re: IN> Difficulty getting something to gel. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 15:26:09 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Hi. At 9:09 AM +0000 11/18/00, darkness@i-manila.com.ph wrote: >Hi, > >I'm pretty new to this list. I'd stay quiet but I >have a few questions about In Nomine that I'd >like some answers to, or comments on... > >Balseraph of Fate / Master of Divine >Knowledge questions... >1) Does a Balseraph of Fate with the Malakite >resonance take oaths? Yes. The "default" oaths that all Malakim take are not necessarily used, but a close perversion often is. >2) As I understand it, Mercurians become >dissonant when they turn to violence, unless it >is directed at diabolicals. Is a Balseraph of >Fate with the Mercurian resonance restricted >to violence against fellow infernals? See errata; I'd figure a BalMercurian could pound on other demons as much as it wanted. Or angels, for that matter. Just no humans. Not even undead. >3) As I understand it, Superiors have all the >abilities their Attunements bestow on their >Servitors, up to a point (meaning, no >possession of bodies for non-Kyriotate or >Shedite Superiors, no attuning for non-Cherub >or Djinn). See the GMG -- they get all the resonances as well, should they desire them. (In my PERSONAL opinion, they are less likely to use non-native resonances unless they think about it because, well, they're not _their_ resonance.) >I take this to mean that Kronos has >his Balseraph Attunement, and Yves his >Master of Divine Knowledge Distinction. >Anyone care to speculate on which Choirs >they "belong" to? FNORD. >4) I know this has been answered already, I >just want to be sure. Can the Balseraph of >Fate Attunement and the Master of Divine >Knowledge Distinction provide a celestial with >the resonances of: >a) Grigori? In GURPS: In Nomine, it's noted that Kronos has never been known to have a BalGrigori. Yves' Distinction might well be able to provide it, but one suspects that such a thing would not go over well with the other Archangels. Especially Dominic. Or perhaps the resonance is somehow restricted. Fnord. >b) Bright Lilim? See above for Kronos. For Yves, FNORD. I would suspect not, personally, but don't make me pronounce canon here. >c) Menunim? I see no reason why Menunim would be a problem for either. Though the Menunim are kind of restricted in what they can do, from what I recall -- it's dissonant for them to get too active, and Fate would probably object. (Menunim, being a minor Choir (and one whose spelling I can never manage from memory so far), are not mentioned in the G:IN Bal of Fate attunement section either way. I just checked.) >5) If the concept behind a Balseraph of Fate is >that it is able to lie to the Symphony well >enough to masquerade as an angel, shouldn't >it regenerate Essence at sunrise? Or, even >more interesting, shouldn't it regenerate >Essence _twice_ a day? Fnord. Perhaps accepting divine Essence would be unhealthy for a Balseraph, that most selfish of Bands... >6) Can the Balseraph of Fate Attunement fool >a Malakite of Destiny? His "did an angel or demon make that disturbance" attunement? No -- you need the Humanity attunement from the Game for that. (For that matter, a Fate Balseraph is unlikely to be able to fool any resonance -- they have the _resonance_ of a Choir, not the protective coloration of one.) >Other questions... >1) Bright Lilim seem to be bound by exactly the >same dissonance conditions as their infernal >sisters. Fall of the Malakim wasn't very >specific about this. Do I take it to mean that >what makes a Lilim dissonant will also make >a Bright dissonant? Having someone bounce a Geas, yes. Sensible Brights don't geas people, both because it risks dissonance, and because it is, well, compulsion and coercian. Ew, nastystuff. (Though a Laurencian Lilim, if ever there were such a thing, could force demons to "honor their debts," so to speak... See Superiors 1 or FotM.) Of course, they also have the dissonance conditions of their Superior. (Which means, yes, a Bright of Creation has nothing that makes her dissonant except having someone resist her Geas, or speaking a lie in Helltongue. On the minus side, well, Eli's AWOL.) >2) Among Archangels, the naming convention >among first-level Distinctions seems to follow >the "Vassal of " format,[...] Fnord. It's common, but it's not a Stylesheet rule. As for Azzie -- well, part of the Game is trying to make your opponent twitch, right? >-----------------------------168071508944249 >Content-Disposition: form-data; name="send.x" > >25 >-----------------------------168071508944249 >Content-Disposition: form-data; name="send.y" > >14 - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 15:26:12 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Dominic's Trials At 2:06 AM -0500 11/19/00, William J. Keith wrote: >No no no, not one of the story threads. I need some info for something I'm >writing, and the Angelic Player's Guide which I've just bought, is lacking >much of anything on the laws of angels, which I'd expected to find >within(and thus had put on order, sight unseen). Ew, my condolences. For angelic laws, you should check Superiors 1, which has the Dominic writeup. Since the Superiors books also discuss what it's like to work for a given Superior (instead of the 10-page expansions that were in the Rev Cycle), at least a brief overview of "life in a triad" had to be covered. It would probably be helpful, since it does cover the basic stuff that angels get hauled in for; what stuff Dominic himself presides over is also in that writeup, or the one in Heaven & Hell. (If you have similiar questions about what might be in a book, feel free to ask on the list, or ask me -- I feel mildly guilty when someone wants something that's in a _different_ book than the one they got.) >Anyway, the basic question is this: has Dominic *ever* found someone >innocent? Good question. I'd say probably. >Has a hotly contested defense ever *worked*? Another good question. I'd think it somewhat unlikely in the sense that it doesn't matter how "hotly contested" it is; it's whether the defense is _TRUE_ or not that matters. (There is a note in the section on making "arrests" that while attempting (or succeeding) to escape an arrest is a serious crime ("obstructing Judgment"), there have been times when circumstances were such that the actions were basically forgiven. (And then there's Fiat Justitia, where the Ofanite shot the Elohite of a triad and mostly got off with a lecture. Mind, she had a very laid back Seraph in that triad, and a reasonable excuse, and no one was sent to Trauma...) >Or does he not >bring someone to trial until he's so sure they're guilty that the verdict >is already decided? Judgment follows Napoleonic code, not American -- you are considered guilty until proven innocent. Of course, if you can say, "I'm innocent of this crime!" and a Seraph of Judgment gets the 6 CD (which is common; look at their Choir Attunement), then that's pretty good proof of innocence. The Symphony is a powerful character witness, to quote S1. >is this all up to personal interpretation of the Archangel of Judgment and >his Word? A fair amount is, yes, but there are guidelines in S1. At 12:21 PM -0500 11/19/00, damienw@juno.com wrote: >even so, he does have a Word-bound under him as a sort of >"Public Defender" - while tricks of law do not work, >this angel (who is in Book o' Servitors, IIRC) Koriel, Angel of Equal Truth, is in a Pyramid article a while back (check the archives if you have a subscription) and Final Trumpet. Mihr, Angel of Mercy (and a frequent co-worker with Koriel) is in S1. (Sorry, not the Liber Servitorum -- there are some legal-focused characters there, but not those two, who are probably who you're thinking of.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 15:05:24 -0500 From: damienw@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Zadkiel Seed On Mon, 20 Nov 2000 12:57:58 -0600 "Prodigal" writes: > > At the thought of a bunch of X-Babies type Sword servitors? Who > wouldn't be? > ;) > > Super-Deformed In Nomine? *shiver* > Big Wings, Small Mouth? (Or, as mentioned over on Pyramid... In Anime. :) - --- damienw[et]juno.com "SOY! Soy makes you strong! Strength crushes enemies! SOY!" ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 14:33:14 -0500 From: damienw@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Dominic's Trials On Sun, 19 Nov 2000 14:56:59 -0800 (PST) Michael Walton writes: > > If you're referring to Mihr, the Angel of Mercy, she's in the APG. > > If you mean someone else, kindly ignore my humble ramblings. > Well, I guess I did not RC, since that IS who I was thinking of. - --- damienw[et]juno.com "SOY! Soy makes you strong! Strength crushes enemies! SOY!" ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 14:40:06 -0500 From: damienw@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Re: Cain On Sun, 19 Nov 2000 15:11:44 -0800 (PST) Michael Walton writes: > > Gaiman isn't the only source from comics on this one. I'm showing > my age here, but DC Comics used to have two companion horror titles > called House of Mystery and House of Secrets. The hosts of these titles > were two gentlemen known as Cain and Abel. ... which is who GAIMAN stole from, y'see. Most of the old DC horror comic hosts (the Three Witches, Cain, Abel, Lucien, Eve) were incorporated into Sandman/the Dreaming. (Incidently, the Gaiman Cain, Abel, and Eve are closer to Etherials than being the literal people, which raises additional IN possibilities.) - --- damienw[et]juno.com "SOY! Soy makes you strong! Strength crushes enemies! SOY!" ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 14:56:28 -0500 From: damienw@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Re: Cain On Sun, 19 Nov 2000 21:21:04 -0800 (PST) Maurice Lane writes: > > Neat variation. I had to resist mightily the > temptation to rip Gaiman off completely (I left in the > "Lucifer says no touch, so no touch", because it fit): > luckily, elements of poverty kept me from ever buying > Sandman, so I was able to stay strong. I always figured it was because there's merely rebelling against God, and then there's "hurt this guy and God will personally Smite you", which is what I assumed the Mark implied. > Hmmm... I actually _do_ have a job now, come to think > of it. And, seeing as I can't actually buy any _new_ > IN products (except for the calendar, and I fully > expect to get at least three of those for Christmas), > why, there's room in the budget... :) You ought to. Then pick up _The Dreaming_, which doesn't have the Sandman or other Endless but rarely (by agreement with Gaiman) but has just about everyone else. Either way, I like the idea of a mortal who's older and wiser than a majority of Celestials. In fact, I think it might be fun to play up the idea that Cain thinks he knows everything - which isn't too far from the truth when you're that old, mind. - --- damienw[et]juno.com "SOY! Soy makes you strong! Strength crushes enemies! SOY!" ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 15:56:55 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Difficulty getting something to gel. At 10:03 PM -0800 11/19/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >Hmm. Maybe Stone? IIRC, Stonies do sing strange hymns in their hallowed halls... Or was that dwarves? Hrm. I may need to replenish my blood sugar soon. - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 16:08:49 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: Abracadabra (was Re: IN> Selflessness vs. Selfishness) At 2:13 PM -0500 11/20/00, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Jason F. McBrayer wrote: > >> Presumably the law of conservation of mass-energy is a special >> case of the law of conservation of mass-energy-essence (or mass- >> energy-disturbance)[...] My one and only contribution to this thread was made a year or two back. (It was a hypothetical picnic. In the Far Marches. With four Creationers, Eli, and My Favorite Renegade. "I can't help it. I'm just *wired* to have this instinct to grovel around Superiors." "Oh, that would wear off quick enough if you had to put up with him losing his socks. Three times in an hour." "Why not just create more?" "*I can't do THAT*! It's a Vapulan plot to make me destroy the universe!" "Uhhhhh?" "If I create too much mass, the universe will *implode* in twenty million years!!" "I suppose that being around since the beginning would give a certain perspective to that statement...") (Gaming gets strange at night sometimes.) Fnord. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 16:09:56 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> The Defense of the Library-Part Two At 2:17 PM -0800 11/19/00, Charles E Smith wrote: >As promised, the follow-up to the first installment. :) Hmmmm. O:> As, hm, inspirational material, if you haven't checked this yet, you might: http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/seeds/DarkVictory/NonCanon.html The attunements of Archives do have interesting applications now and again. O:> - --Beth, Archangel of Archives http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Angels/Arcangel.Beth.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 16:09:59 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Cain At 3:32 PM -0800 11/19/00, Bevan Thomas wrote: >As a side note, Genesis does say that after Cain killed Abel, he went into >the Land of Nod. Nod is now identified with dreams and dreaming. Does this >mean that in In Nomine, Cain entered the Marches after God marked him? Oooo, enforced Dreamshade? O:> Or perhaps it should be read more symbolically, and Cain became a pagan sorcerer, consorting with/working for/taking over some ethereal pantheon/group... (Canon? No canon here, mon, go look somewhere else.) emccoy@nh.ultranet.com, Uppity Wynch http://brie.bmsc.washington.edu/people/merritt/books/Eye_of_Argon.html "rumoured to contain hoards of plunder, and many young wenches" Mike [falsetto]: "We're tired of these degrading patriachical slurs! From now on we demand to be called 'wynchys.'" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 21:11:17 GMT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Dominic's Trials > > >Anyway, the basic question is this: has Dominic *ever* found someone > >innocent? > >Good question. I'd say probably. > I'd say of course not. Everyone is bound to be guilty of _something_ if the inquisitors look hard enough. Actually, I doubt an angel would even be brought to trial unless the various seraphim who had investigated were fairly sure of some degree of guilt. When Dominic tries a case personally, the only thing in doubt is how severe the penance will be. Besides which, punishment is (probably) good for the soul, and teaches angels to show a proper degree of respect. As long as the punishment fits the crime (which it always does.) jo _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 16:34:30 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Dominic's Trials At 9:11 PM +0000 11/20/00, Jo Hart wrote: >> >> >Anyway, the basic question is this: has Dominic *ever* found someone >> >innocent? >> >>Good question. I'd say probably. >> > >I'd say of course not. Everyone is bound to be guilty of _something_ if the >inquisitors look hard enough. Oh, well, true. But I'm sure that _once_, _somewhere_, if nothing else back when he was a lowly Word-bound, someone dragged some poor protesting angel in front of Dominic, and said, "We think he's done a bad thing!" And Dominic, with his Seraph of Judgment attunement meaning that he is permanently jacked into the Symphonic TRUTH, said, "You're wrong. Let him go. You're wasing my time." And if he was an Archangel by that time, he whapped the false accusers over the head with a ruler, and they were enlightened and never wasted his time again. (Canon? Canon? Fnord, I say! Fnord!) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 16:10:50 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Re: Cain At 2:40 PM -0500 11/20/00, damienw@juno.com wrote: > > (Incidently, the Gaiman Cain, Abel, and Eve are >closer to Etherials than being the literal people, which >raises additional IN possibilities.) Mm. Yes and no. *Abel* seems to be an Ethereal. Cain, on the other hand, doesn't. The Furies weren't allowed to touch him, but could destroy Abel as just a dream. Eve we have no information on, other than the Furies avoided her. My feeling is Cain went into the Dreaming and went to work for Morpheus on the condition that his brother be brought back, and Morpheus did so. But that's just my theory. It would be like finding Cain in the Marches, having him meet an Abel that rose from folklore, and treating him (and killing him) as his brother. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 16:34:57 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Dominic's Trials At 9:11 PM +0000 11/20/00, Jo Hart wrote: >Actually, I doubt an angel would even be brought to trial unless the >various seraphim who had investigated were fairly sure of some >degree of guilt. When Dominic tries a case personally, the only >thing in doubt is how severe the penance will be. In addition, the Word is not Law or Justice or even "Fair Hearings," but Judgement. Those brought before a Triad are Judged -- on a specific affair or on a general one. Those brought before Dominic are Judged. It's probably fairly obvious how a Judgement will go before it happens -- which is bourne out by the text on Eli in Superiors 1: Dominic is certain he will judge Eli guilty. He is not certain if God will pardon Eli, and he is not certain of the extent of Eli's Herasy. But the primary offense Eli is accused of -- abandoning his Servitors and post in Heaven -- is not even in question. The secondary offense Eli is accused of -- that Eli has become a latter day Grigori -- is almost certain in letter if not in spirit. (Did that make even the slightest sense? I need more sleep.) Anyhow -- Dominic is almost never surprised, and it's nigh impossible to imagine him simply exonerating one brought before him. That's not what Judgement is. (Just remember, those Judgements have to have *fair* punishments. So if it turns out the 'crime' was really in Heaven's interests, the punishment will be far lighter.) - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 16:58:19 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Servitor Attunements, Superiors, and Rambling Disclaimer: The following is not canon. It is just me rambling. I forsee no future where I would have to make it canon. Use it in your games or not, I don't care, for lo, it is not canon. Datclaimer: Not that I tend to care whether you use canon in your games or not so long as you don't _claim_ something is/is not canon when it isn't/is. - ---- Why don't Superiors share their Servitor Attunements with each other? Or do they? Well, if they did, things might look very strange -- should Michael really have some of David's attunements? Janus'? Novalis? (The idea of Michael dropping a Crown of Joy on someone's head and then cleaving them with his axe is just Wrong.) It's easiest for a GM to say that, with rare exceptions, most Superiors don't share around their attunements. And when they do, most of the time the other Superior tends to forget he (or she, or it) has that attunement. After all, it's not an attunement pertaining to _his_ (hers, its) Word, right? So, by the nature of being Word-bound, anything that doesn't pertain is shoved into a back closet somewhere, while the things that do pertain are hung on the walls and ceilings. On the other hand, there are some Superiors who are actually pretty likely to have other-Superior attunements which they haul out and polish up occasionally. Such as the Superiors who are fairly recent "protoge's" of other Superiors. Christopher. Nybbas. Maybe Zadkiel. Probably Haagenti. Can't you just imagine Haagenti with Prank? Of course you can. Uncurl and come out of that corner now. Nybbas is easy, of course -- the glasses. We don't want to think about whether or not he retains his "double Essence capacity" ability. Fortunately, we don't have to; he's a Prince, and his stats aren't stattified. Unless you want to have some scene where he's been held against the wall and had the stuffing beaten out of him, and then, from where he's been kicked into a corner, there's this evil snicker and he starts looking like Arnold Swartzenmumble in Terminator I, after all the flesh-cover was torn off him. Of course, if attunements did get shared, it would be between allied Superiors... Isn't there an Essence cost to them, from GMG? (Baby on chest, cannot check books, argh.) Something about "equal to Forces of recipient"? That could make attunement sharing rather prohibative -- what you've got for attunements from people not you is what you _get_, once you're promoted... I would try to think of some sort of paragraph with closure, but the baby sleeping on my chest is wiggling and will possibly wake soon, and I don't think I can come up with closure anyway. Fnord. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 16:51:21 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Selflessness vs. Selfishness At 15:15 -0500 11/18/00, William J. Keith wrote: > The minute an >angel gets a Word, what does it do? According to every description in >canon, it immediately goes about promoting that Word, not only in the >service of Heaven, but to increase its own power and Forces. It *has* to >support a Word decreasing in strength, because it loses power with its >Word, and could possibly disappear entirely. Thus, it might almost seem >like Words are inherently *selfish* objects. My own take on this is slightly different -- angels gain Words because they *want* to promote them; they *believe* those Words are important to the Symphony. They lobby the Council to both assign the Word, and to also assign it to *them*, because they believe they're best suited to promote it so that it fills out its full part in the overall Symphony. Unlike Hell, Heaven doesn't hand out Words arbitrarily, but works to ensure that important Words are properly served, by those most motivated to do so. The Word isn't a motivation itself, but a reward (maybe) for being motivated to promote that aspect of the Symphony, in ways that benefit the Symphony. Angels don't promote dying Words because their Word's death will kill them, but because they *love* the Word, and don't want to see it die. I would expect most Word-bound angels to be willing to die, if only it would serve somehow to make their Word gain back its deserved (in their minds) prominence in the Symphony. All that, is, of course, in theory. Angels aren't perfect, and some pride and selfishness will probably creep in there. But on the whole, a Word-bound angel is no more selfish in promoting his Word than a Cherub is in protecting his charge. Cherubim don't protect their attuned because they'll get dissonant if they don't; they get dissonant because it's their nature to want to protect things, and failing to feel that way indicates a serious flaw in their nature. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 14:08:20 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Re: Difficulty getting something to gel - --- Jonathan Walton wrote: > > > Hey, has anyone done an Angel of Hymns/Sacred Music > > yet? Archangel? Archangel would be Eli, but the Angel of Hymns would work directly for Israfel the Angel of Music. She appears in the Liber Canticorum. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Snore and you sleep alone." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 15:59:16 -0600 From: Santiago Subject: Re: IN>The Demon of Taxes >> That being said, I think Marc would take a fairly jaundiced eye to >>most taxes. In the grand scheme of the word of trade, some taxes >>are acceptable, because they are user fees. > >What tax isn't a use fee? Taxes by definition pay for the functions >of the government. Actually, the idea of a tax as a use fee to fund improvements and services for the public good is far from universal. For a good deal of history, most taxes were organized theft so that those in power would have money and goods. Only in large empires, such as the Roman, Incan, and Chinese, were the bulk of taxes actually used for construction projects, farm subsidies, and the salaries of public servants who actually did some good for people. - -- Santiago ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 16:13:14 -0600 From: Santiago Subject: Re: IN> Balseraph of Fate Questions Actually, I've been meaning to ask a mechanics question for a while. If a Balseraph of Fate has the Kyriotate resonance, how many forces does his main vessel use up when manifested? I presume it would be an amount equal to the force-equivalence of the vessel (i.e. 5 for a human, less for smaller ones, as per the tables for Limbo in Heaven & Hell and Ethereals in The Marches). - -- Santiago ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 16:09:54 -0600 From: Santiago Subject: IN> Re: Abracadabra >Presumably the law of conservation of mass-energy is a special case of >the law of conservation of mass-energy-essence (or mass-energy- >disturbance), which Jean considers humans insufficiently advanced to >have access to. > >Of course, this if that's the case, then there's the possibility for >Vapulan artifacts that generate essence either by tapping sources of >Corporeal energy (wall outlets, nuclear reactors, hamster wheels) or >by disintegrating Corporeal objects. Then again, maybe that's how the >Sorcerous 'sacrifice for essence' skill works, though if it were, >Fluffy would have to disappear completely rather than bleeding on the >drop cloth/newspapers that the sorceror put out for the purpose. >Hmmm... Well, you see, the essence released is actually the binding energy that held Fluffy's soul to her body. When you separated them, it was released, but instead of being allowed to turn into disturbance, a special form of entropy, it was harnessed (with 92% efficiency, at that). What's curious is that undead have an infinite binding energy, and the resulting division by zero destroys the soul in the process of corporeal death. :) - -- Santiago ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 14:16:38 -0800 From: "Kish" Subject: Re: IN> Balseraph of Fate Questions From: Santiago <> All of them. (From the IPG.) Cannot use Vessel and Kyriotate resonance at the same time. - -- Kish ICQ#: 28085879 AIM: Kish K M Kish_K@mindspring.replacewithcom ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 14:56:10 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Cain Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 23:27:33 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Cain >Nice job, Moe. Just some minor comments: >Shouldn't he have Toughness by now? And/or some >equivalent of the Angry discord? My conception of him was that he's so bloody tired of it all that he went past anger and shame 8,000 years ago. He's numb. As for Toughness: why bother? Cain's effectively unkillable, and the Mark'll just heal him anyway, eventually. Add some, though, if you like. >Don't forget Small Weapon/6 (rock). Good point. Have to remember that one. >And why are all his Songs at level 1? Real Reason: I overran my point budget. Rationalization That Actually Doesn't Sound Too Bad: Cain hasn't used some of these Songs in thousands of years, and is kinda rusty (kinda unsafe to, considering that he knows some Lost ones). Even if the PCs twig to this, best to make sure that they only get access to the neat stuff/1 to start (I'd make increasing said levels harder than normal). >I notice that Cain is older than most Celestials, >including the entire choir of the Grigori (whom he'd >likely have met). Probably. The Grigori are likely the only celestials he'd ever even think about having a beer with. :) Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:34:37 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Hi. At 15:26 -0500 11/20/00, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 9:09 AM +0000 11/18/00, darkness@i-manila.com.ph wrote: >>4) I know this has been answered already, I >>just want to be sure. Can the Balseraph of >>Fate Attunement and the Master of Divine >>Knowledge Distinction provide a celestial with >>the resonances of: >>a) Grigori? > >In GURPS: In Nomine, it's noted that Kronos has never >been known to have a BalGrigori. > >Yves' Distinction might well be able to provide >it, but one suspects that such a thing would >not go over well with the other Archangels. >Especially Dominic. Or perhaps the resonance >is somehow restricted. Fnord. Or perhaps Yves, presumably knowing *way* too much about the future, knows it's a bad idea, or maybe it just isn't time to do that yet. So there might not be any, but it might not be impossible. And if someone asked him about it, there's no guarantee they'd get a straight answer, since he'd presumably know the consequences of that, too. >>b) Bright Lilim? > >See above for Kronos. For Yves, FNORD. I would >suspect not, personally, but don't make me >pronounce canon here. I'd handle it as above -- Yves might be able to do it, but has some good reason *not* to. (And people wonder why Michael is twitchy about Yves....) Possibly having such a coercive resonance is a bad idea for angels (yeah, then there are Kyrios), the the rarity of Brights is simply a reflection of that, to a degree. >>5) If the concept behind a Balseraph of Fate is >>that it is able to lie to the Symphony well >>enough to masquerade as an angel, shouldn't >>it regenerate Essence at sunrise? Or, even >>more interesting, shouldn't it regenerate >>Essence _twice_ a day? > >Fnord. Perhaps accepting divine Essence would >be unhealthy for a Balseraph, that most selfish >of Bands... Or maybe they convince themselves that they *got* that Essence, but double-think their way around the fact that they don't have it any more.... Self-delusion is so wonderfully useful.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 14:38:39 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Zadkiel Seed Moe, you truly wound my favorite Archangel. Shielders using bananas as weapons, I ask you! Remind me to hurt you when I stop laughing. O;> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Snore and you sleep alone." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:41:52 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Abel (was Cain) Well now that we know what Caine's been up to...let's check on old Abel dear boy. Abel Saint of Protection in the service to Stone Quote: "For the love of God do NOT talk about Vampire: The Masquerade in my presence." Cor-3 Str-6 Agi-6 Eth-5 Int-8 Pre-12 Cel-5 Will-8 Per-12 Vessel: Laid back slacker type dude 2/ Skills: Animal Handling 5/, Driving 2/, Dodge 5/ Small Weapon (Stone Knife) 6/, Fighting 4/, Savoir Faire 2/, Lgn (Hebrew-duh 6/, Arabic 2/, English 3/, French 2/, Latin 2, Greek 4/) Songs: Song of Attraction (Corporeal 3/, Celestial 5/), Song of Harmony (Ethereal 3, Celestial 3/), Song of Healing (Corporeal 6/) Relics: Stone Knife (+5 Ethereal Talisman) Abel really really really hates what he's been depicted as in the media. Allot of people don't realize that Abel was the more forceful brother...at least that's the way he remembers it...he always gets saddled with this innocent goody too shoes image that makes him look out to be a sickly wimp. Abel admits he was taken by surprise when his brother cacked him and it still gnaws at him to figure out exactly why it was done. Abel attributes "it" usually to the common theory it was that a sacrafice of his beloved sheep as opposed to Caine's simple harvest was more pleasing but Abel since he has personal knowledge gives a much larger variety of weird reasons than most Angels want to hear including conspiracy theories about Lilith and Saminga plus on-going sibling rivalry....in any case he can talk about it more than any angel would usually like to hear about which is part of why Abel does it. He REALLY considers it between them...and indeed is actually attuned to Caine unbeknowst to that personage. Abel for the most part is no stranger to death and has died numerous times in service to God against the diabolicals, mostly because no demon can resist the chance to try and kill him once they found out who he is. However they're often surprised to find out just how nasty a fighter Abel is...he's rather determined not to let someone get the drop on him again. Technically Zadikiel is his Archangel as he requested that he be allowed to return to the Earth to protect mortals from murderers and perhaps give them a shot at realizing it's a bad idea...otherwise he'll gut them....but since he knows Zadkiel from the time she was a tiny little cherub Abel is more closer in respects to David whose servitors he most often works with. Abel it should also be noted has stayed relatively stable with modern culture and while he's still relatively fond of animals and his fellow man, he enjoys a good car ride and VH1 almost as much....though his favorite past time is still beheading demons and making sure his brother isn't once again getting cults devoted to him. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 16:48:24 -0600 From: Santiago Subject: Re: IN> A little Something for the Holidays... >Beyond the Vale of Dreams, within the Marches, there is a land called >Seussland, where the lovable characters created by Dr Seuss dwell. Here, >under the watchful eye of Servitors of Children and Dreams, The Cat in the >Hat is neighbors with Daisy-Head Maisy and Horton the Elephant, Green Eggs >and Ham is a special in the restaurants, and Mulberry Street is the main >street of Whoville... Actually, I'm running an Ethereal campaign, and one of my players took a Star-bellied Sneetch. (The others are The Spirit of Sluggy Freelance (with Kiki and Bun-bun vessels), a spirit of bad 70s detective shows (complete with Jack Lord's Hair, a minor artifact), a traditional (and thus fictional) ninja, and the incredibly self-referential spirit of In Nomine, who alternately thinks he's an over-the-top angel or demon.) - -- Santiago ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 16:51:00 -0600 From: Santiago Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Communism >At 4:04 PM -0600 11/17/00, David Edelstein wrote: >>There is none. But that doesn't mean it can't happen, or that Marc's >>Angel of Communism isn't trying. ;) > >Hm... now there's a concept. The Angel of Communism, in disfavor >because of the... trouble of the last hundred to hundred and fifty >years, trying to build something new, and turning to the only Angels >who might have some sympathy.... I'd say that these days, he's been working with some servitors of lightning on open-source software to convince the public of the effectiveness of a group working selflessly towards a common goal. It would appear, however, that Vapula managed to get his ideas implemented in Netscape 6... - -- Santiago ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:56:04 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Difficulty getting something to gel. At 15:18 -0800 11/19/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >Hey, has anyone done an Angel of Hymns/Sacred Music >yet? > >And, if not, anyone got a good Superior suggestion for >that one? Creationer IST the Sword or Fire works, of >course, but I want something more esoteric. :) Song (the exiled Grigori Archangel), now in service to Stone (since hymns are generally cooperative communal music). If you want to be more twisted, it was IST to Creation until Eli went walkies, then petitioned to work for someone *stable*.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1931 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.