From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Nov 21 13:57:07 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02963 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:57:07 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id NAA07097 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:56:55 -0600 Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:56:55 -0600 Message-Id: <200011211956.NAA07097@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1933 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, November 21 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1933 In this digest: Re: IN> Magic Re: IN> David's female Guise Re: IN> Abel (was Cain) Re: IN> Magic Re: IN> Magic Re: IN> Magic Re: IN> Magic Re: IN> Re: Cain IN> "Do me a favor?" Re: Abracadabra (was Re: IN> Selflessness vs. Selfishness) Re: IN> Re: Cain Re: IN> "Do me a favor?" Re: IN> Abel (was Cain) Re: IN> Magic Re: Abracadabra (was Re: IN> Selflessness vs. Selfishness) IN> Historical Magic Re: IN> The Archangel of Death Re: IN> Zadkiel Seed Re: IN> Magic Re: IN> Magic ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:44:53 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Magic Sons of Ether gone nuts. This is soooooo coooool. If I ever start my In Nomine campaign up again, I'll definetly need to use this. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Santiago To: Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 10:22 PM Subject: Re: IN> Magic > All this talk of Magic has inspired me... > > ----- > > Overheard at the Eighth Virtue: > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 06:59:53 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> David's female Guise >Astute readers will remember the story of Deborah in which a prophetess and >wife of a good man drove a tent peg into the skull of a attacker of the >Children of God. That was Jael. jo _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 23:33:03 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Abel (was Cain) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:41:52 -0500From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Abel (was Cain) >Well now that we know what Caine's been up to...let's >check on old Abel dearboy. >Abel >Saint of Protection in the service to Stone >Quote: "For the love of God do NOT talk about >Vampire: The Masquerade in my presence." Now THAT quote alone was worth the price of admission. Of course, now I'm seeing Abel with a British accent (not to mention a Very Silly Walk)... ;) Moegiel Kyriotate of Destiny In Service to Protection ("Why we use just banananas? Big Shiny-Wing Shield-Lady say so? Right. :shrug: "Hulk... squish? "Hey! Bananana went right through Nasty-Wing Man! HULK SQUISH! HULK SQUISH!" ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 00:28:54 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Magic Hi, it's me again. Time to throw in another monkey wrench into the defintion that people have come up with for magic. The Libram Canticorum lists some examples of magic: two ones that I remember are the Kabbalah and numerology. Avoiding for the moment how much the world view of In Nomine seems based on the Kabbalah, I would like to say that neither the Kabbalah or numerology involves changing the Symphony. In fact, the point of Kabbalah, and I believe numerology, is to discover the secrets of God by employing various methods, mystical or otherwise. They do not really reshape reality. To my knowledge, the only flashy magic that Kabbalists are supposed to do is create golems (constructs in In Nomine terms) and summon angels (theurgy, yes, it is impossible in In Nomine, but In Nomine still considers theurgy an element of sorcery, not magic). If the most magical things that Kabbalists do in In Nomine are not considered magic, then how exactly is the Kabbalah considered magic in In Nomine terms? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:32:05 +1300 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> Magic > > All this talk of Magic has inspired me... This raises the question: Can a human use technology to detect the Symphony which is by very definition Celestial... where technology is clearly Corporeal? This is getting really, really close to that evil WOD game. I am just waiting for someone to come up with rules for Paradox... I mean, hey, they already have Forces and Essence! Avatar-Archangel who gives you Forces... it's all the same. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 02:25:27 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Magic Hmm. Though I have gotten a little jaded about it these last couple of months (its a little presumptious, and the stuff is not as authentic as I originally thought), I still like WoD a lot. I don't see what everyone's problem is with it. Actually, if reality-altering magic was introduced into In Nomine, it probably would produce something like paradox. After all the Symphony is sentient, and it probably would not want someone screwing with it. Not that I'd introduce that, mind. By making sorcerers slightly less malevolent, I have magic to my taste in In Nomine, and I wouldn't screw around with more. I prefer to tweak pre-existing rules rather than cause huge paradigm shifts. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Alex Liddell To: Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 1:32 AM Subject: Re: IN> Magic > > > All this talk of Magic has inspired me... > > This raises the question: > > Can a human use technology to detect the Symphony which is by very > definition Celestial... where technology is clearly Corporeal? > > This is getting really, really close to that evil WOD game. I am just > waiting for someone to come up with rules for Paradox... I mean, hey, they > already have Forces and Essence! Avatar-Archangel who gives you Forces... > it's all the same. > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ _________ > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 06:37:16 -0500 From: damienw@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Magic On Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:32:05 +1300 "Alex Liddell" writes: > This is getting really, really close to that evil WOD game. I am > just > waiting for someone to come up with rules for Paradox... I mean, > hey, they > already have Forces and Essence! Avatar-Archangel who gives you > Forces... > it's all the same. Bah. S'not evil. And Mage/In Nomine's been done. "Uh... Dominic, sir? We just got a message from the Chorus. They say you're full of it." Heh. - --- damienw[et]juno.com "SOY! Soy makes you strong! Strength crushes enemies! SOY!" ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 06:18:23 -0500 From: damienw@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Re: Cain On Mon, 20 Nov 2000 16:10:50 -0500 Whistling in the Dark writes: > > My feeling is Cain went into the Dreaming and went to work for > Morpheus on the condition that his brother be brought back, and > Morpheus did so. But that's just my theory. It would be like finding > Cain in the Marches, having him meet an Abel that rose from > folklore, and treating him (and killing him) as his brother. Well, in the case of Gaiman, I'd say "Morpheus automatically remade Abel because the story involves them both", although Cain apparently does have something kind of like brotherly love. Right until he kills Abel again for the Nth time, of course. - --- damienw[et]juno.com "SOY! Soy makes you strong! Strength crushes enemies! SOY!" ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Nov 2000 11:43:39 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: IN> "Do me a favor?" My fiancee and I were talking the other night, discussing Lilim, and the idea came up that if someone *asks for help* from a Lilim, and she does as she's asked to, this would count as not only a Geas, but the level of the Geas would reduce the victim's Will-roll to resist when the Tempter calls in her favor. Eye-contact is not required to find a Need, since the person is proclaiming the need, asking the Lilim to fulfill it. note that favors found in such a way cannot be stacked with other favors to increase the kind of Geas which can be imposed, nor for the penalty to the target's Will roll. Two examples: 1a) Christine (a human) has been walking about in crisp winter weather when she spies the familiar form of Jaqueline (unbeknownst to Christine, a Lilim). "Hey, Jackie, can you spare some chapstick?" asks Christine. "Sure," smiles Jaqueline, and hands over the tube. The next day, Jaqueline sees Christine across the street and resonates the woman: she's short $42 on her phone bill. As Jaqueline crosses the street, she reaches into her purse, pulls out fifty dollars, and hands it to Christine, explaining, "You look like you need this, and what's a little cash between friends?" Later that week, Jaqueline is walking along when she recognizes Christine's car driving up from behind; thumbing down Christine, Jaqueline grins, "Gimme a lift?" and the hook in Christine's soul flares to life, made more difficult to resist by the favor Jaqueline has already done her. "Sure," murmurs Christine, unsure why she feels nervous, "get in." 1b) If Jaqueline had asked Christine to drive across the country, trying to combine the phone-bill Geas with the chapstick Geas, there would be no penalty to Christine's Will roll to resist (apart from any Attunements Jaqueline might possess), and the human may have fended off the Geas as her debt was called in. 2) A man cannot swim and finds his son drifting down a river. "Help, my son is drowning!" he cries. Jaqueline, alert, bounds onto the scene, nods to the man, and dives into the river. Rescuing the boy and giving him emergency breathing after clearing his lungs, she lets him rest while she stands to talk to the boy's father: "I need some help from you, as it happens." "Anything," the man replies gratefully. Jaqueline nods, pleased, "Go down to the local police presinct, get into the evidence room, and bring back one of their bags of heroin." The man sputters as his eyes go wide, but Jaqueline has saved the life of his son, and he had no chance himself of doing that--the weight of what she has done for him conquors his Will entirely. His shoulders slump, and he asks, "Where should I deliver it?" Comments, suggestions, questions? -=|horsefly|=- God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:27:04 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: Abracadabra (was Re: IN> Selflessness vs. Selfishness) Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > "If I create too much mass, the > universe will *implode* in twenty million years!!" This brings up the interesting point that, next to Jean, Eli must be the angel with the best insight into the workings of nature. But it ought to take a LOT longer than 20 million years. Say, 20 billion. Maybe Eli mumbles. And all he'd have to do to counter the effect of too many extra socks would be to destroy something else, e.g. some nuclear waste, or back issues of old magazines. But I suppose destroying things is the one thing he can't do. (Hey, maybe he could destroy hack novels.) Earl, physics major ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:34:38 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Re: Cain Bevan Thomas wrote: > By the way, in that story, Cain says that at that the beginning of > time, neither he nor Abel looked remotely human. Which makes one > wonder what they looked like. Indeed. Made me wonder if Adam, Eve, and the whole First Family weren't supposed to be the very first incarnate intelligences in the whole universe, perhaps, billions of years older than the Earth itself. They would then have looked like J. Random Alien, or energy beings, or whatnot. > However, another interesting note is that Eve in that story says > that she is not Cain and Abel's mother. Wasn't that the issue in which she told the tale of Adam's Three Wives? I.e. Lilith, the Maiden, and Eve the Mother of Humanity. If she isn't Lilith, she might be the Maiden -- who was described as being destroyed, but that doesn't mean she's permanently GONE, in a story where one of the main characters gets killed every day. Whistling in the Dark wrote: > Eve we have no information on, other than the Furies avoided > her. Didn't the Furies say, in passing, that she was them, in some mode? Suggests that they and she are aspects of the Triple Goddess. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:49:18 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> "Do me a favor?" At 11:43 AM +0000 11/21/00, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: >My fiancee and I were talking the other night, discussing Lilim, and the >idea came up that if someone *asks for help* from a Lilim, and she >does as she's asked to, this would count as not only a Geas, but the >level of the Geas would reduce the victim's Will-roll to resist when the >Tempter calls in her favor. I like this option. I think it makes sense. >"I need some help from you, >as it happens." "Anything," the man replies gratefully. This, OTOH, I'd rule as the man agreeing to the geas. This is heavily a house rule, mind, but I'm of the opinion that when a person agrees to help a Lilim after she's done him a service, she gets him for that level of Geas automatically. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:51:15 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Abel (was Cain) Very nice. I'm glad someone did the flip side of the story. One interesting point to remember is that Abel was the first man dead. So he may have originally been in service to the Archangel of Death (whom I'm calling Azrael, since that's a traditional name), but have since shifted, perhaps because Azrael has become so reclusive in recent ages, for whatever reason. (Okay, so Abel wasn't *exactly* the first man dead, since Adam and Eve weren't the first humans, but if we take the pre-Adamite hominids as a spiritually distinct species, the label can still work. My point is that Abel is plenty old enough to have had a long and chackered post-mortem history.) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 10:07:50 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Magic At 2:25 -0800 11/21/00, Bevan Thomas wrote: >Actually, if reality-altering magic was introduced into In Nomine, it >probably would produce something like paradox. After all the Symphony is >sentient, and it probably would not want someone screwing with it. Actually, I think you'd just get a lot of disturbance, which is the Symphony's usual reaction to being diverted from its natural course. (Remember that a human using a Song causes disturbance just like a celestial. I believe any sort of Will-based reality alterations would just be a larger case of the same thing.) The only way it *wouldn't* cause disturbance is if such abilities were part of the Divine Plan for humans, and therefore "native", much like celestial resonances. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 10:18:13 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: Abracadabra (was Re: IN> Selflessness vs. Selfishness) At 9:27 -0500 11/21/00, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >> "If I create too much mass, the >> universe will *implode* in twenty million years!!" > >This brings up the interesting point that, next to Jean, Eli >must be the angel with the best insight into the workings of >nature. Probably, though I tend to think that Eli's ability is simply intuitive; he wants to do something, he just does it, without necessarily thinking about how or why. Jean, on the other hand, would instantly solve a huge number of simultaneous differential equations to get to the same result. But about 90% of the time, he'd never even have thought to do it in the first place. About as polar opposites as two people can be in the left brain/right brain way.... >But it ought to take a LOT longer than 20 million years. >Say, 20 billion. Maybe Eli mumbles. When you've lived that long, what're a few orders of magnitude...? Or maybe Eli loses a *lot* of socks. >And all he'd have to do to counter the effect of too many >extra socks would be to destroy something else, e.g. some >nuclear waste, or back issues of old magazines. But I >suppose destroying things is the one thing he can't do. >(Hey, maybe he could destroy hack novels.) Supposedly he also embodies destruction, but that may be more in the sense of transmutation -- he might only be able to destroy something by turning it into something else. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 10:44:21 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Historical Magic I originally wrote this up for our own home-grown PRG, FuRPiG, but the recent thread on magic made me think it might be of interest to the list, so here it is, adapted on the fly for In Nomine. Earl - ---- This message lists, as skills, those forms of magic that were and are actually believed in by historical peoples, mostly Medieval and Renaissance Europeans. The supposition here is that modern understanding of physical law is closer to the truth than is the Medieval, so that some of these people (alchemists and astrologers for instance) were doing magic when they thought they were doing science, and others (luck-casters, for instance) were unconsciously using their own magical energy when they thought they were doing "natural magic" using publically known tricks for luck or fortune-telling. Alchemy — Intelligence, Cost = 1 Essence The goal of alchemy is to "perfect" materials. Perfected metal is gold, or at least silver. Perfected flesh is young and healthy. Therefore, the twin goals of alchemy were the production of "philosopher's stone" (a powder to be mixed with molten base metal, turning it into gold) and of "elixir" or "panacea" (a universal health potion and rejuvenator). Alchemists pursue these goals using the apparatus of chemistry and strange tomes, cryptically written or even encrypted, and surrealistically illustrated, communicating procedures under cover of elaborate allegory. Alchemy was practiced through the Middle Ages and Renaissance, into the Enlightenment period, throughout Europe and the Middle East, and there are Indian and Chinese equivalents. Unless they are rich, alchemists need patrons, who then expect results. Alchemists must also maneuver around each other, since they need to learn from each other but are also rivals for fame and the resources of patrons. Though alchemists themselves do not necessarily realize it, there are two kinds of alchemy, medical and metalurgical. — Medical Alchemy A week of work produces 2d6 doses. A normal success produces a healing potion curing 2d6 per dose. A normal failure produces an innoccuous mess. The rejuvenation produced by a success with CD 6 works the subject back to physical age 20, or, if the subject is already at that point or younger, holds them at age 20 for the number of years left on the effect. The alchemist can work toward other effects, as well, such as potions to induce sleep, sexual arrousal, or fertility. (Or poisons, but these are easily obtainable by ordinary methods.) Working on blood as a raw material, an alchemist can try for animation and the creation of a homunculus. This is part of the research program leading toward panacea and elixir. The homunculus strongly resembles the donor of the blood; mixing blood samples gives mixed results. A homunculus is a 1/12 scale miniature human form, floating in a container of special sustaining fluid, sleeping or gazing idly at the surroundings; it has no conscious mind or volition. Except for CDs of 6, it dies immediately on being removed from the sustaining fluid. — Metalurgical Alchemy A week of work produces 2d6 doses, to be mixed with molten base metal, usually lead. A normal success produces two pounds of alchemical silver from lead, per dose. A normal failure produces impure lead. Alchemical silver and gold are not "real" silver and gold by our standards; the alchemical effect gives base metal the proper color and hardness, but does not change density or chemical reactivity. However, it is very hard for a Medieval to distinguish gold from yellow lead. The alchemist can work toward other effects, such as superior qualities for steel, or creating gemstones, or removing flaws from real gems. Healing: Favorable Intervention: elixir of life — a dose heals all current wounds and stops aging Success, CD 6: panacea — a dose heals 3d6 and does 16d years rejuvenation Failure, CD 6: poison, a dose does 2d6 damage Adverse Intervention: produce poison fumes doing 2d6 damage to alchemist Homunculi: Favorable Intervention: homunculus is biddable and understands the creator's mother tongue Success, CD 6: homunculus wanders about in a daze, moved by idle curiosity, hunger, etc. Failure, CD 6: 2 HP from blood loss Perfect failure: 5 HP from minor infection OR an UNbiddable homunculus Transmutation: Favorable Intervention: 14 doses producing gold from any base metal Success, CD 6: 2d6 doses producing gold from lead Failure, CD 6: poisonous fumes (2d6) when mixed with molten metal Adverse Intervention: explosion (2d10) and poisonous fumes (2d6) during concoction Astrology — Intelligence, Cost = 1 Essence Astrology is only the best-known, most presitgious, and most learned form of many schools of divination that give a number of coded clues rather than visions. Other examples are reading cards, tea-leaves, hand-writing, cloud shapes, or entrails. The game mechanics can be adapted to any of them. There are four forms of astrology. A professional astrologer will know all of them. There are "general predictions" (weather, economic conditions, wars, plague, and social unrest for a given area and time), "nativities" (individual horoscopes like the ones in modern newspapers, only more specific, since they refer to your exact year, day, and hour of birth, not just your sun sign), "elections" (whether the stars are propitious for a proposed action), and "horary questions" (general research into any question, based on any astrological factors available — the most ambitious form). Casting a horoscope properly takes at least an hour, and may take days for horary questions. Assign negative modifiers for inexact information on dates and times. A success gives you accurate clues, though they may be hard to interpret. A failure leaves you as uncertain as you were. In the Medieval period, astrology was legal and orthodox, but the clientel was usually limited to nobility, high clerics, and wealthy merchants. Certain questions were politically risky, such as efforts to predict the king's life expectancy, or to determine the legitimacy of hiers. In the Renaissance, with the advent of printing, lots of people could read up on astrology, there were more astrologers, and people of all social classes used them. Success, CD 6: no cost Failure, CD 6: lose 1 Essence on mistaken reading Ceremonial Magic — Intelligence, Cost = negotiable A ceremonial magician uses a quasi-religious ceremony, invoking the names of God and of high angels, to conjure up and make demands of devils and lesser angels. "Black magic" of this type is workable only through devils and seeks disaster, disease, or death for the magician's enemies. "White magic," workable through either angels or devils, typically aims at divining the location of buried treasure, telling fortunes generally, or acquiring luck in gambling, politics, or romance. Ceremonial magicians are typically learned, and deal in tomes describing their ceremonies and listing the names and reputations of the spirits they wish to contact. At a minimum, they read and speak Latin, and may also know Greek, Hebrew, and Arabic, astrology, a fair bit of philosophy and theology, plus the colorful, apocryphal fringes. (Despite this scholarly bent, they seldom seem to use their magic to acquire academic knowledge.) The ceremony itself often takes a long time to prepare for — days of fasting and ceremonial purification, for instance — and requires one or a few participants. (Incidentally, it is the magicians who stand in the magic circles, to protect themselves from whatever they conjured.) The ceremony is almost always performed in secret, both to protect trade secrets and because the ceremony is frequently illegal or heretical. In a low-SFX game, nothing particularly strange happens, or maybe someone begins "channeling" the invoked spirit; the goals of the ceremony are then met by apparently natural turns of fate. In a high-SFX game, something actually shows up and fireworks may ensue. The nature of the conjured being is up to the GM, including whether it is really constrained by the magicians' spells or is just playing along. [For IN, angels are never compelled, only alerted, by the ceremony. A demon is compelled only if it has the Summonable Discord, which basically means the magician can not only teleport the demon to his presence, but can put a Lilim-style geas on it.] Ceremonial magicians tend to work in clandestine networks of eccentric scholarship, and in secret and intricately structured lodges and orders. They may have powerful noble or ecclesiastical patrons who make sure their illegal or heretical activities are tolerated in return for their services. They are drawn into intrigue and conspiracy generally. In non-monotheistic cultures, ceremonial magic is generally done by priests. Success, CD 6: no cost Failure, CD 6: it's come, but it won't leave... Channeling — Will, Cost = 1 Essence Channeling is temporary spirit possesion by invitation. The channeler uses a ceremony to go into an ecstatic trance, during which the channeled being, called a "guide" or "control," uses the channeler's body. The channeler usually does this for petitioners, for whom the control typically answers questions, heals, or performs some other service, usually without leaving the site of the ceremony. [In IN terms, Channeling is the converse of the Song of Possession: the possessee "sing" the "song" for the incoming spirit. Very accomodating.] The nature of the ceremony is dictated by the channeler's taste and traditions. Experienced channelers can abbreviate the ceremony (-2). It is common to use some traditional mind-altering substance (+2). The nature of the control is up to the GM — dissociated personality, ghost, Ethereal spirit, demon, angel, whatever. This need not match what the channelers or petitioners think the control is. Typically, a channeler has only one control, or at most a small number. Normally, the channeler is oblivious during the trance, while the control is in charge. By making a Will roll, the channeler can become vaguely aware of what is going on. Channelers may find themselves being taken over without invitation, or with controls who outstay their welcome, or otherwise being mis-used. To resist unwelcome controls, the channeler makes Will rolls to attack and efend, and takes damage in Soul Hits. The GM sets the difficulty levels to reflect the magnitude of the unwelcome control. Channeling was not common in Medieval and Renaissance Europe, but it could be found in pre-Christian Europe (e.g. the Pythia at Delphi, channeling Apollo), and is a staple of modern Spiritualism, Voodoo, and the spiritual practices of many African and Southeast Asian cultures. Channeling may be treated as a skill, knack, or (with hostile controls) psychic disease, depending on setting. Success, CD 6: no cost, friendly controller Failure, CD 6: hostile controller Prerequisites: possibly initiation into a priesthood or wizardly order Hedge Wizardry — Perception, Cost = 0 Hedge wizards, also known as "cunning folk," "wise folk," and many other names, are expected to find lost objects, identify guilty parties, tell fortunes, and advise on how to improve one's luck. Their psychic talents include detecting Disturbance, recognizing the "flavor" of Disturbance, the ability to "dowse" for people or objects if given suitable tokens of them, and low-grade telepathy letting them detect the presence and emotions of people and animals. They are generally born with the talent, then develop it through training and practice. Hedge wizardry cannot be taught. It often combines with other magical skills. Shamans (q.v.) are generally also hedge wizards. Witches and luck-casters (q.vv.) may also be hedge wizards. The local hedge wizard is also often a priest, a midwife, or a healer. Success, CD 6: intuitions about future events, or general GM-gift data Failure, CD 6: lose 1 Essence Luck-Casting — Will, Cost = 1 Essence Almost every culture has beliefs about good and bad luck. [In Nomine lets humans affect their luck by spending Essence on their best skill. This is in addition to that ability.] Here, luck is treated as the result of conscious or unconscious luck-casting. A successful cast of good luck means the target re-rolls the next failed Agility, Intelligence (for ideas), or skill roll and uses the better of the two results. For a cast of bad luck, the target re-rolls the next successful Agility, Intelligence, or skill roll and use the worse of the two results. A lucky charm or ritual is a prop used by many voluntary luck-casters, who believe the power to reside in the charm or ritual, not in themselves. Without the charm or ritual, they are at -2 to cast. Many uses of popular fortune-telling systems actually depend on a luck-cast to make the system generate the correct answer (cast on skill with the system), or lead the fortune-teller to the correct interpretation (cast on Intelligence). Many instances of popular healing magic actually depend on a luck-cast made on behalf of the patient (cast on medical skill). Luck-casting cannot be taught. It often combines with other skills. Hedge wizards, shamans, and witches can often cast good and bad luck voluntarily. Someone who casts luck involuntarily is a "mascot" (good luck) or a "jonah" or "jinx" (bad luck). The difference is only in how the luck-casting is roleplayed. Favorable Intervention: three turns of luck at no cost Success, CD 6: three turns of luck for 1 Essence. Failure, CD 6: luck of the opposite kind Adverse Intervention: three turns of luck of the opposite kind Shamanism — PSY, Cost = 3 Essence + 1 Mind Hit / use A shaman is proto-priest and proto-magician, standing between their community and the Unseen. The distinctive shamanistic power is a form of astral projection. The shaman can walk the mundane world visibly or invisibly, enter the dreams of others, and travel to the Ethereal Plane. In the mundane realm, their astral form is always impalpable. In other realms, it is always palpable and visible. A shaman can learn fay-style Shapeshift, though it only applies to their astral body. They can also possess the bodies of animals. Both these practices are common among shamans with totem animals. A shaman can remove others from their bodies while they sleep, though the unwilling can resist. If one resists being pulled from the body or to tries to return against the shaman's will, the two fight it out with Will rolls, each roll costing 1 Essence. If the victim wins a Will roll and the shaman loses, the victim wakes as from a nightmare. The shaman can win the fight by pulling the astral body free of the physical and quickly taking it far away. Some people just stumble into shamanism without any cultural support. They may become visionaries or psychic investigators. Professional shamans learn their trade through an apprenticeship system. They make it their business to learn the "politics" of the arcane neighborhood, to keep themselves and their clients on the good side of (or at least protected from) whatever spirits, fays, etc. are likely to drop by. Almost all professional shamans are also hedge wizards. Many are luck casters. Shamanism was not common in Medieval and Renaissance Europe, but is common enough beyond it. The Druids had it. So, probably, did Norse priests and wizards. Even in Medieval Italy, there were the Benandante, clans of dream-walkers, in which the men regularly fought astral were-wolves while the women did business with the fays. Favorable Intervention: no cost Success, CD 6: no Mind-hit cost Failure, CD 6: lose 3 Essence Adverse Intervention: lose 3 Essence + 3 Mind hits, wake from nightmare Prerequisites: usually, an inborn gift and initiation by a senior shaman Visionary Divination — Perception, Cost = 1 Essence The classic form is gazing into a crystal ball, but a mirror, a faceted crystal, a shiny metal knob, a goblet of water, a flame, or even a bucket of water will do. Anything shiny and tricky to the eye. Each method has its own proper name. Dream clairvoyance can produce the same results, with the same mechanics. But the diviner has a favored prop or method and is at -2 if they use an unfamiliar one, or more if the prop is greatly unlike the familiar one. A successful use produces 1d6 short views, no more than a few seconds each, bearing on the subject of the inquiry. They can be of past, present, or future, and are notorious for sometimes being ambiguous and misleading. This makes life easier for a GM trying to guess the future course of the plot. Only dream visions may include sound as well as sight, but they are just as hard to interpret. Success, CD 6: seven relatively unambiguous glimpses Failure, CD 6: no result and lose 3 psi pts Prerequisites: an inborn gift or some arcane background Witchcraft — Will, Cost = 1 Essence / Body-hit inflicted The witches of Renaissance folklore are supposed to sell themselves to the Devil in return for supernatural power. This power may include Hedge Wizardry, Luck-Casting, or Shamanism, but the witch-specific aspect of it is magically harming other people. This the witch does at the rate of 1 Essence per Body hit of damage. The damage can take the form of "accidental" injury or various forms of illness, and may take a day or so to come about. The famous witchly power of flight, on broomsticks or by other means, is actually part of Shamanism. Any familiar is a separate character, with separate powers and its own agenda. Witchcraft cannot be taught; one is endowed with it on becoming a witch. Favorable Intervention: 7 HP of damage Success, CD 6: 1d6 HP of damage Failure, CD 6: 1d6 HP to self Adverse Intervention: 7 HP to self Prerequisites: pact with an evil spirit ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:24:46 -0800 From: Charles E Smith Subject: Re: IN> The Archangel of Death Oh, I forgot a couple of people in the list of Sorantine's opinions. - ------------------------------------------- Magog: "Who?" Malphas: "He's a silly little Kyriotate, but very smart. I think he might earn a Word one day. Maybe Community or Friendship." Raphael: "I rather like Raphael. She's sweet, but so preoccupied. I worry for her sometimes, just like Mariel. Just because she is Knowledge doesn't mean she has to be dull or boring." ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:23:19 -0800 From: Charles E Smith Subject: Re: IN> Zadkiel Seed The Shielders will be a bit more rational, but then they were the ones who had to miracle away a half ton of bananas, calm a bunch of hysterical nuns, and rotate twelve bus tires. _Someone's_ going to have to get tropical fruit lethally shoved up an orifice or two, or they won't feel any closure. Generally, this should end up with a couple of car chases, several scenes where the pentitent demon snarls for forgiveness, and, if you play it right, a nice little pie fight in a bakery (note that a little bit of Essence does wonders for improving something's velocity).<<< LOL! I can just see the Shielders during the car chase scenes pulling out bazookas loaded with bananas and shooting up the road to make the demon's car spin out. :P ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 18:50:06 -0000 From: "I. Inayat" Subject: Re: IN> Magic - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 11:37 AM Subject: Re: IN> Magic > > > On Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:32:05 +1300 "Alex Liddell" > writes: > > This is getting really, really close to that evil WOD game. I am > > just > > waiting for someone to come up with rules for Paradox... I mean, > > hey, they > > already have Forces and Essence! Avatar-Archangel who gives you > > Forces... > > it's all the same. > > Bah. S'not evil. And Mage/In Nomine's been done. > > "Uh... Dominic, sir? We just got a message from the Chorus. > They say you're full of it." > > Heh. Besides, the Archangels already _have_ human agents. They're called Hunters. :) (Or 'dead meat' by those angels that know of them...) Hmm... Hunter/IN... Imran ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 08:50:30 +1300 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> Magic > > This is getting really, really close to that evil WOD game. I am > > just > > waiting for someone to come up with rules for Paradox... I mean, > > hey, they > > already have Forces and Essence! Avatar-Archangel who gives you > > Forces... > > it's all the same. > > Bah. S'not evil. And Mage/In Nomine's been done. > > "Uh... Dominic, sir? We just got a message from the Chorus. >They say you're full of it." It's evil when you meet the people who can't see past their own character sheet. Oh boy do I know them - don't even try to talk to them about another system. I personally don't care. I think that a flat crossover would be such a great idea. Although I can't seem to get past the fact that Vampires in IN are so pathetic compared to those in WOD! All hail Dwight Mulgrew! _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1933 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.