From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Nov 24 13:20:45 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26263 for ; Fri, 24 Nov 2000 13:20:44 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id NAA22023 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 24 Nov 2000 13:20:57 -0600 Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 13:20:57 -0600 Message-Id: <200011241920.NAA22023@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1937 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, November 24 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1937 In this digest: Re: IN> Magic Re: IN> Magic Re: IN> Laying down the celestial smack on WOD-types IN> Now that that's done, I can catch up on the mail. Re: IN> Laying down the celestial smack on WOD-types Re: IN> The Dystopias of Asmodeus Re: IN> Real-life variant In Nomine scenario Re: IN> Turkey for you, turkey for me... Re: IN> Turkey for you, turkey for me... Re: IN> Magic IN> IN/Hunter? Re: IN> IN/Hunter? Re: IN> IN/Hunter? Re: IN> Magic Re: IN> Abel (was Cain) IN> "No! You fool! That's the Time Eraser Button!" IN> WoD-IN Crossovers (Re: Magic) IN> IN/WoD Crossover madness (Re: Magic) Fwd: Re: IN> Laying down the celestial smack on WOD-types Re: IN> "No! You fool! That's the Time Eraser Button!" Re: IN> "No! You fool! That's the Time Eraser Button!" Re: IN> "No! You fool! That's the Time Eraser Button!" IN> Wahnp Wahnp, Wahnp Wahnp, Wahnp Wahnp... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 17:06:25 +1300 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> Magic ><fact >that Angels and Demons are so powerful compared to Vampires and the >like. >> >Whyso? I mean, obviously angels and demons are very powerful compared >to IN vampires and sorcerers--but that doesn't matter in a crossover. >Or do you mean that, conceptually, angels and demons should be far >more powerful than mages and vampires? Why does it not matter during the crossover? And yes, conceptually they should be more powerful. You adapt both systems to fit in the best aspects. But at some point you have to say, corrupt human spawned by a curse from God vs Agent of Gods Wrath..... I'd put my money on the Angel every time. We are not talking about Caine vs an Angel, but a Vampire vs an Angel. ><Will. >> > >Why a monster Will? And how many celestials can afford to use a Song, >and spend Essence, anywhere near as many times as a vampire can use >Dominate? (Even assuming they all know Ethereal Shields.) The point is that after the Vampire has tried to Dominate the Angel with the shield, the Angel tears him apart or just leaves with that protection still active. Last time I looked Vampires can't teleport or fly without having those Disciplines at quite a high level. As far as a high Will is concerned, I thought you could burn Willpower in WOD to negate the effects of some Disciplines. With a Will of 12 in IN you could pretty much negate everything. It is really hard I admit to convert those sorts mechanics over. What I think is that Dominate is designed to work on a human or formerly human mind, not that of a creature of concept. Ditto Auspex with things like Telepathy, using your own mind to scan anothers and try to alter stuff is asking for trouble when you do it to an Angel or Demon. The battle of Wills rule in The Marches could apply there... ><thing. The Demon walks in with his NumCorp Claws>> > >Which would be more, not less, powerful than Protean 2 why, exactly? I only have the MET 3rd ed rules of Vampire so it is Protean 1 when I read it, if it is different I apologise. I have no clue why it would be more or less powerful. All you are doing with Wolf Claws or Feral Claws is creating claws from your fingertips.... that is exactly the same of NumCorp Claws as far as I can see. So when a Vamp gets whacked with it, he takes agg damage. Demons and Angels don't have a version of aggravated damage, so they are already at an advantage. The Vampire will at least be hesitant to fight something that can seriously hurt it. Vampires are much, much more versitile than Angels and Demons. They can all be fast, they can all dominate and do all the cool stuff like obfuscate and such. Angels and Demons are restricted to a Choir or Band which dictates their nature and abilities usually. Resonance altering attunements (bal of fate, master of destiny) aside, an Angel can really only do one thing with his Resonance. An Elohite up against a Toreador with Celerity 5 would get seriously outclassed.... an Ofanite up against the same Vampire would stand a chance and might even win given what other abilities he could being to bear, like Ofanite of War for example. So yeah, ok, maybe I am a bit presumptuous in saying that Angels are more powerful.... but I believe that they should be in that sort of setting. Given what WOD is all about... and that in that game, Demons are really, really nasty apparently. Like it is grounds for termination if you deal with one. That alone points to them being quite powerful. Alex _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 20:19:36 -0800 From: "Kish" Subject: Re: IN> Magic From: Alex Liddell ><fact >that Angels and Demons are so powerful compared to Vampires and the >like. >> >Whyso? I mean, obviously angels and demons are very powerful compared >to IN vampires and sorcerers--but that doesn't matter in a crossover. >Or do you mean that, conceptually, angels and demons should be far >more powerful than mages and vampires? <> Because if you're crossing over with the WoD, you're either not using In Nomine vampires or sorcerers, or you are in addition to the WoD ones. Otherwise, what are you doing? Altering the In Nomine system with some aspects of the Storyteller system? - -- Kish ICQ#: 28085879 AIM: Kish K M Kish_K@mindspring.replacewithcom ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 22:24:09 -0600 From: Santiago Subject: Re: IN> Laying down the celestial smack on WOD-types >>When I thought about the whole WOD/IN cross, I couldn't get past >>the fact that Angels and Demons are so powerful compared to >>Vampires and the like. >> >>Then there is the vessel thing. When an Angel or Demon dies it can >>come back and finish what it started...a WOD character doesn't >>quite have that luxury. >> >> Any thoughts here? Ah, yes, then there's the truly unstoppable Shedim. Scariest things in the world to have on your ass, especially if you have no way of getting at them while they're in celestial form. Love that line about "an indestructible drunk with an infinite supply of rental cars"... >Now it's "Ofanite of Fire -- with *napalm*! VAMPIRE ROAST! >WOOOOO-HOOOO!" [1] > >And I tell you -- if by some weird cosmic shift I ever end up DM'ing a >Vampire campaign, I *will* send in the Malakim if it starts getting out of >hand... But the Ofanim can set *themselves* on fire. Nothing like being chased by a flaming superhuman avenger with the equivalent of a few levels of celerity... - -- Santiago ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 20:30:58 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Now that that's done, I can catch up on the mail. Amazing what sleeping most of a day (only being woken for turkey, pumpkin pie and lots and lots of cider) will do for a person. Best part is, I get three more days of absolutely nothing planned. Bliss. :) Morgan (SAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of West and Welaxation at Wast. Hermiel Ofanite Vassal of War/the Wind Angel of Cognitive Dissonance Corporeal Forces: 3 Strength: 6 Agility: 6 Ethereal Forces: 6 Intelligence:12 Precision: 12 Celestial Forces: 5 Will: 10 Perception: 10 Word-Forces: 11 Vessels: Human female/2 Skills: Dodge/3, Emote/3, Fast-Talk/6, Fighting/4, Knowledge (Psychology/6, Psychological Warfare/6), Languages (English/3, German/3), Ranged Weapon/1 (pistol), Savoir-Faire/1 Songs: Charm (Ethereal/2, Celestial/1), Concealment (Ethereal/2), Empathy (Ethereal/2), Healing (All/1), Light (Celestial/4), Nemesis (Ethereal/2), Nightmares (Ethereal/2), Opening (Ethereal/2, Celestial/2), Shields (Corporeal/1, Ethereal/3, Celestial/2) Role: "Hermione Kwong, Ph.D." (Professor of psychology)/4, Status 4 Attunements: Ofanite of War, Ofanite of the Wind, Seraph of War/the Wind, Swipe, Proficiency (Fighting), Vassal of War/the Wind, Angel of Cognitive Dissonance Angel of Cognitive Dissonance: Hermiel may, once per day, create an infectious meme (loosely defined as an entire, self-contained concept or attitude). This meme may not be false, but can be subjective: for example, "Demons don't exist" would be false, but "Demons should be ignored whenever possible" is subjective. She may pass this meme on to a random person, who must make a Will Roll at +2. If the roll fails, this person will subconsciously express that meme, at every legitimate opportunity, for the next 24 hours. Anyone who encounters this meme must make a Will Roll or likewise incorporate it in their worldview for the next 24 hours. If the meme happens to not conflict with the person's opinions or prejudices, there is no particular effect. However, those infected that do have contradictory, consciously held opinions will suffer from acute confusion (-2 to Intelligence and Will rolls for all situations involving the meme) for a day or so until they can resolve things. Hermiel likes to use this ability to target Hellsworn just before a major attack. Even Soldiers read editorials or comic strips… Special Rites: Show up the contradiction between someone's beliefs and actions (useable twice per day). Cognitive Dissonance NOUN: Psychology A condition of conflict or anxiety resulting from inconsistency between one's beliefs and one's actions, such as opposing the slaughter of animals and eating meat. The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000. This angel has often been called "the vertical yo-yo". Hermiel simply can't decide which is more fun: serving Janus, who lets her slightly confuse a lot of boringly dull people, or serving Michael, who lets her fatally confuse a few nasty people. A sad reflection about the state of the younger generation today, no doubt, which probably isn't helped by the fact that the two Archangels in question go through ever more and more baroque schemes to steal her away from each other. The contest is essentially friendly, of course, but both Superiors play to win. This means that Hermiel's overall strategy will depend mostly on which Archangel last came up with an offer she couldn't refuse. When she's running with Janus' crew, her major goal is to get people to think, a task made more difficult by the fact that humans have all these preconceived notions cluttering up the place. She's more than happy to set metaphorical dynamite to said preconceptions. When she's serving Michael, Hermiel instead concentrates on softening up Hellsworn and other servants of evil for upcoming assaults. She is an expert at psychological warfare: give her a week, and two-thirds of the mortals you were counting on for perimeter defense are going to be completely useless when the hammer comes down. She maintains a Role as Dr Hermione Kwong, a psychology professor at a West Coast school who does the occasional consultation work with the US military. If nothing important comes up, she tries to switch to the Wind's service during the semester breaks: it can be difficult sometimes to teach when you have to travel twice a week. She's gotten away with it so far. Personally, Hermiel can be a little annoying, in that special way that people reserve for individuals they don't approve of but can't help liking. First off, she's a bit of an egotist (two Archangels fighting over the right to give you orders can do that to an entity), albeit a cheerful one. Second, she can't or won't turn off her habit of hurting people's brains by pointing out the inherent contradictions between their words and deeds: this is guaranteed to at least occasionally annoy anyone except an Elohite (who are supposed to be beyond that anyway). Third, well, Servitors are supposed to stay put, not jump back and forth whenever they feel like it. The Inquisition keeps a very close eye on her, on direct orders from Dominic. Most Triads dread this particular duty: but then, it also annoys Hermiel, Janus and Michael, so it all evens out. ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 22:34:16 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Laying down the celestial smack on WOD-types - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Santiago" To: Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 10:24 PM Subject: Re: IN> Laying down the celestial smack on WOD-types [snip] > >Now it's "Ofanite of Fire -- with *napalm*! VAMPIRE ROAST! > >WOOOOO-HOOOO!" [1] > > > >And I tell you -- if by some weird cosmic shift I ever end up DM'ing a > >Vampire campaign, I *will* send in the Malakim if it starts getting out of > >hand... > > But the Ofanim can set *themselves* on fire. Nothing like > being chased by a flaming superhuman avenger with the equivalent of a > few levels of celerity... It just occurred to me that the Ofanite of Fire attunement is unrestricted. *g* - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 20:42:19 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> The Dystopias of Asmodeus Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:27:10 -0500From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> The Dystopias of Asmodeus >Here's an idea I had for Hell... >In one of the more disturbing acts Asmodeus has done >in the past century, the Prince of the Game has begun >gathering the damned from his principality together >in isolated communities which has begun designing >from these self-same warnings of the Past with his >own added 'edge' to them. I quite liked these. I wonder if he's done this in the past, using economic/political theories current today? And if so, are they still going concerns, or do damned souls and demons crouch in the abandoned ruins of The Vanguard of the Glorious People's Revolution or City, Incorporated, forgotten by the rest of Hell as they attempt to follow imperatives hardwired into their souls? Needless to say, there's probably a MacGuffin or two in the bowels of said ghost town... Anyway. I thought these were neat. :) Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 20:52:12 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Real-life variant In Nomine scenario Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 20:15:02 -0600From: "Prodigal" Subject: IN> Real-life variant In Nomine scenario >> http://www.miaminewtimes.com/issues/1997-06-05/feature.html >Anybody who doesn't get a multitude of story ideas >from this just isn't doing their job... Oooh. I have to sit down for a while and _think_ about this one. Thanks. :) Morgan (SAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of Outcast Cherub of Protection? Renegade Habbalite of Factions? How to choose, how to choose... ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 21:00:14 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Turkey for you, turkey for me... Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 10:10:56 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Turkey for you, turkey for me... - - --- Maurice Lane wrote: >> You know, I meant that, I really did. Apparently >> (glaring up at presumed muse location), SOMEBODY >> wasn't listening... > Moe, you should know by now that, to any truly >talented person, the ideas come unbidden. All you >can do is choose whether or not to record them. Yeah, but they could show some consideration and wait until _after_ somebody gets some sleep, not wake one up just as one gets nice and comfortable and force them to the keyboard. I'm seeing this stuff in my bloody _dreams_ now. I quite liked the dreams where I was standing in sun god robes on top of a pyramid, while thousands of naked women were throwing pickles at me,* thankyouverymuch, but I have I gotten _one_ of those lately? Nooooo... Anyway, glad you liked the Angel of Turkeys. It certainly amused _me_ at dinner today. ;) Moe *Why am I the only the one who has that dream? ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 23:09:24 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Turkey for you, turkey for me... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice Lane" To: Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 11:00 PM Subject: Re: IN> Turkey for you, turkey for me... [snip] > *Why am I the only the one who has that dream? "Real Genius", with Val Kilmer. Moe, when we can *spot* where you're mining the stuff from, then it stops working as well. Find more obscure sources. *g* - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 21:21:02 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Magic Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 18:06:46 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Magic >My first thoughts upon an IN/WOD crossover were >"Malakite with flaming sword! VAMPIRE ROAST! WOOOOO->HOO!" >Of course, upon thinking about it a second time, I >realized my error. Now it's "Ofanite of Fire -- with >*napalm*! VAMPIRE ROAST!WOOOOO-HOOOO!" LOL. Interesting question: would WoD werewolves be considered 'human' in IN terms, for the purposes of this discussion? I _believe_ (flip flip flip through SJG_O_RPG Werewolf: The Apocalypse), yup, at least some of these guys were born wolves, which would seem to technically make Lupus not human, as defined by the CPG, page 9, paragraph 1*. Some Lupus Black Spiral Dancer in any hypothetical IN/WoD crossover may just get a BIG surprise when he starts to push around that harmless-looking Mercurian of Flowers... :) Moe *Yeah, I'm rules-lawyering. So? It's not like I'm in a game right now, more's the pity... :| ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 07:49:00 -0000 From: "I. Inayat" Subject: IN> IN/Hunter? Okay... So with the current WoD crossover discussions... ...anyone out there interested me posting one background for an IN/Hunter chronicle? (Be warned: It's _not_ silly. Or maybe it is, depending on how you look at it...) Imran ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 03:20:59 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> IN/Hunter? From: "I. Inayat" > > ...anyone out there interested me posting one background for an IN/Hunter > chronicle? > > (Be warned: It's _not_ silly. Or maybe it is, depending on how you look at > it...) I'd like to see it. :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 01:22:40 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> IN/Hunter? It'd be pretty cool. I'm always interested in new rules tweaking. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Prodigal To: Sent: Friday, November 24, 2000 1:20 AM Subject: Re: IN> IN/Hunter? > From: "I. Inayat" > > > > ...anyone out there interested me posting one background for an IN/Hunter > > chronicle? > > > > (Be warned: It's _not_ silly. Or maybe it is, depending on how you look at > > it...) > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 02:30:03 +1300 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> Magic > >Whyso? I mean, obviously angels and demons are very powerful >compared > >to IN vampires and sorcerers--but that doesn't matter in a crossover. > >Or do you mean that, conceptually, angels and demons should be far > >more powerful than mages and vampires? > ><> > >Because if you're crossing over with the WoD, you're either not using >In Nomine vampires or sorcerers, or you are in addition to the WoD >ones. Otherwise, what are you doing? Altering the In Nomine system >with some aspects of the Storyteller system? I was integrating the Celestials directly into WOD. Trying as best I could to keep the relative power levels the same. That is what spawned the entire converstaion. Obviously it doesn't work this way, if I cared more about WW in general then I would bother making it work. However as it stands I don't. I simply love the way IN works and have no need to look outside it for my enjoyment at this point.... and all the WW players I know are such doorknobs that I shudder to think what I would become if I associated with them. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 11:50:56 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Abel (was Cain) At 11:28 PM +0000 11/22/00, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: >On Wed, 22 Nov 2000 15:57:11 Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >>In In Nomine canon, they're either human, or they're not. If they're >>human, they max out at 15 Forces: five per realm, 10 per characteristic. >>If they're not human, they _are_ ethereal (or celestial) and max out >>as ethereals. >> >>Natch, that's canon, and you can fold, spindle, or mutilate it as you >>will for your own games. But in canon, there aren't "special cases." > LILITH . more seriously, does this mean that Lilith >herself, not counting her Word-Forces, is no larger than 15 Forces? As some others have mentioned, Superiors are not _necessarily_ quantified in Forces. Force-quantification and other power-ranking among Superiors is entirely up to the GM. But before she was a Princess, Lilith was a 15-Force human. After she became a Princess, she entered into the "doubt and uncertainty" land. Quantum Superiors. You can know how many Forces they have, or you can know where they are, but not both at once? O:> >>(I actually had a discussion about this with SJ a longish while back, >>[...] You're either human, or you _aren't_.) > thanks for noting that--it's one of those bits of canon i *will* be folding, spindling, and mutilating ;) Have fun! O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 08:52:11 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> "No! You fool! That's the Time Eraser Button!" I was puttering around, thinking idly about that "let's infiltrate Hell, start a Second Revolt, storm the Principalities and blow up everybody's Heart with Uberplastex, so Mike can get a clear shot at Lucifer just at the moment when it looks like Heaven's gonna lose the Final War" scenario* I tossed off, when I had a Thought. What happens if Lucifer gets croaked? If _I_ was a supremely selfish mastermind ruling over a horde of (very) slightly less selfish, ambitious underlings, all of whom want my job and the perks thereof, it'd be for darn sure that I'd have _some_ kind of a deadman switch set up from, oh, say, about three hours after I arrived in Hell. It's not like I care about what happens to my underlings once I'm pushing up daisies, anyway. Making sure that I'm the power strip for all of the connections between demon and Word sounds like an optimal solution: it'll get the Princes right where they live.** It'd also give me access to all the juice. So... if Lucifer ever fails his Saving Throw, what happens to all the Word-bound (especially the Princes)? I follow the Path of the Superior State Change, myself, so I don't think that they'd just turn into 18-Force Band of Nothings, but, assuming the above deadman switch, they'd lose all access to their Word, with all that it implies. The real trick is, of course, having this happen without the War being lost that afternoon. I leave _that_ scenario as an exercise for the interested student. :) Morgan (SAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of All Hail Lilith, Ruling Queen of Hell (hey, it's not like the _Geas_ went away, and she's got them on _everybody_). *Odd. It seems much more farfetched when written out like that. Well, so does the Anabasis. :) **Yet another Secret Reason why Hell goes after Renegade Princes with both barrels. Lucifer _really_ doesn't want that piece of info showing up in a debriefing. ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 12:08:08 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> WoD-IN Crossovers (Re: Magic) At 12:32 PM +1300 11/24/00, Alex Liddell wrote: >When I thought about the whole WOD/IN cross, I couldn't get past the fact [...] >Any thoughts here? Quite frankly, my best suggestion would be to translate them _both_ into another system and "normalize" them somewhat. My translation of choice would probably be GURPS, since there _are_ conversion books for both. (But then I was a GURPS addict before I discovered IN. And I have a strong dislike for WoD mechanics from the time I actually played with them.) One could also use FUDGE, or perhaps D20. (Windys have the Alignment of Chaotic. Period. O:> ) Those who are into Champions/Hero could probably come up with something. (And there's always TFOS or Toon!) IIRC the WoD stuff correctly, the various folk there are all supposed to be more powerful than poor mundane humanity. (All one of it, or so I hear from some rumors... O;> ) If you yanked it into _IN_ mechanics, you could probably make them start out in the 7-9 Force range, and up the number of experience points they have to buy goodies. (Or otherwise bend the rules -- maybe WoD Vampires have a lot more Toughness than humans are normally allowed to have...) If you know both systems well enough, perhaps one could run each in their own system and anytime they got into direct conflict, roll a contest, and the person who succeeds the most impressively in their own system is the winner... I hope this helped. Or at least amused. I'll settle for amused. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 12:18:50 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> IN/WoD Crossover madness (Re: Magic) At 9:21 PM -0800 11/23/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >Some Lupus Black Spiral Dancer in any hypothetical >IN/WoD crossover may just get a BIG surprise when he >starts to push around that harmless-looking Mercurian >of Flowers... But they can turn into a human... but that's really a were-human; just 'cause it _looks_ human doesn't mean it is, lookit demon vessels... Ahem. I concur with your rules lawyering personally, though I would suggest that any _good_ Mercurian would be mildly disturbed by this, and one of _Jordi's_ might have a nervous breakdown if forced to smack one of these on the nose with a rolled-up newspaper. I wonder if that could be boiled down into something for a Murphy's Rules slot... - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 12:29:06 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Fwd: Re: IN> Laying down the celestial smack on WOD-types >Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 22:35:54 -0600 >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Admin request of type /\buns\w*b/i at line 3 >Status: U >From: "Alex Liddell" >Subject: Re: IN> Laying down the celestial smack on WOD-types >Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 17:33:26 +1300 > >>>>Any thoughts here? >> >> Ah, yes, then there's the truly unstoppable Shedim. Scariest >>things in the world to have on your ass, especially if you have no >>way of getting at them while they're in celestial form. Love that >>line about "an indestructible drunk with an infinite supply of rental >>cars"... > >And I guess they can possess the Vampires.... oh dear, look at that.... now >you're my pawn, I'll just leave you here on this cliff at 6.55am in summer. >Bye. > >>>Now it's "Ofanite of Fire -- with *napalm*! VAMPIRE ROAST! >>>WOOOOO-HOOOO!" [1] >>> >>>And I tell you -- if by some weird cosmic shift I ever end up DM'ing a >>>Vampire campaign, I *will* send in the Malakim if it starts getting out of >>>hand... >> >> But the Ofanim can set *themselves* on fire. Nothing like >>being chased by a flaming superhuman avenger with the equivalent of a >>few levels of celerity... > >Ah yes. Not to mention the Smiting capability. >_______________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 12:36:40 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> "No! You fool! That's the Time Eraser Button!" At 8:52 AM -0800 11/24/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >So... if Lucifer ever fails his Saving Throw, what >happens to all the Word-bound (especially the >Princes)? If *I* were writing it? Each day, at Sunrise, the moment when Angels get their daily hit of sweet sweet Essence, all Word-bound Diabolicals lose a Word-Force as Lucifer's own take on the Symphony degrades in his absence. It works in exactly the same way as Word Force lose in the GMG. In other words, within three weeks even mighty non-Prince Word-bound are down to a single Word-force, and start losing their Personal Forces, one per day, until they die. Superiors are hemmoraging too, but have a lot more to lose before they too, die. Superiors and Word-Bound alike go into hyper-frenetic overdrive trying to bolster their Words and find new metaphoric meanings for their Words while they desperately try to survive. Vapula and Kronos, meanwhile, work on a way to give a Prince -- *any* Prince, but likely Kronos himself - -- the ability to grant Words and Principalities. And Heaven, once they realize what's happening, swarms to eliminate the weakened diabolicals before they can reaffirm themselves. Possible outcomes: 1. All Princes and Word-Bound die. Un-Word-Bound Dukes of Hell become the defacto rulers of Hell. If we're nice and say that Tethers survive (a more stable kind of Word, perhaps), Demons can still leave Hell and return if they have no Hearts, as Heartless Demons have no way of getting new ones. Even as dead Princes still have Servitors with attunements now, the Demons will retain their Attunements, but *no* Rites work any longer. Heaven takes a monumental lead in the War, and Demons either scatter as Renegade-types, trying to stay hidden on Earth, or form terrorist resistances against the fluffy wings. Save, of course, for the demons who have a crisis of faith with the death of Lucifer and the Princes, and seek and receive Redemption. 2. Vapula and Kronos succeed, and Kronos gains the ability to support existing Words and grant new ones. Kronos in effect bootstraps himself up to the Lord of Hell position (likely another State Change even as Principalities are) or realizes he could do this all along. Hell goes into low mode as the vastly weakened Princes and Word-Bound need time to replenish their Words. Un-Word-bound Demons are sent to Earth in droves to bolster their Masters' Words and regain strength. Heaven takes an extremely aggressive position in the War as the Demons lose tremendous ground. Many Words have become Vacent, and a few power struggles erupt in Hell as the Weakened Princes perhaps eliminate a few rivals here and there. (I'd likely have Haagenti eat Mammon or be locked away *by* Mammon, for instance.) Belial, his connection to Fire badly eroded, discovers himself a minority voice against Gabriel, and begins to go insane with the dissonant ring of the *Divine* nature of that Word, while Gabriel begins to stablize. (Assuming Furfur survived the Word-drain, he might try the ultimate Hardcore rebellion and destroy Belial before the Prince of Fire can recover.) Competitions erupt for newly vacated Words left, right and center. And, of course, some demons have a crisis of faith with the death of Lucifer and seek and receive Redemption. 3. Vapula and Kronos *partially* succeed, and Kronos gains the ability to support old Words but not grant new ones. As per 2, above, save that Word-bound (and *especially* Princes) become extremely valuable resources. Some internacine fighting breaks out, but the Game et al slaughters any non-Word bound demon who dares assault a Word-bound, and two Word-bound or Princes who fight are tortured until they agree to drop the conflict. Heaven begins a surgical strike on the Weakened Word-bound, seeing a chance to end the conflict once and for all. The whole thing plays out like a variant of 1, as Hell drops back to quiet terrorism rather than risk open conflict, while Heaven seeks to consolidate its hold and break Hell once and for all. And, of course, some demons have a crisis of faith with the death of Lucifer and seek and receive Redemption. 4. Vapula and Kronos *partially* succeed, and Kronos gains the ability to grant *new* Words but not support old ones. Kronos is rebound to the Word of Fate and rebinds Vapula to Technology (or perhaps Word-promotes him to SCIENCE!), then begins saving the Word-Bound and Princes he feels should be saved. The rest... c'est le deus. New Word-Bound and Princes rise, and the configuration of Hell changes drastically. Meanwhile, hemmoraging Word-bound both try and kill resupported Word-bound (in hope of impressing Kronos and getting the juice-up) or else desperately work to bolster their Words until they can make another plan. (Princes left to die especially do the latter.) Chaos reigns. Otherwise this ends up much like 2, above. And, of course, some demons have a crisis of faith with the death of Lucifer and seek and receive Redemption. 5. Other. Thoughts? - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 10:08:52 -0800 From: Ryan Elias Subject: Re: IN> "No! You fool! That's the Time Eraser Button!" > > 5. Other. > > Thoughts? Possibly Kronos is able to grant new words, but not stop their deterioration. Wordbound in Hell need to make regular trips to the Archive to have their Words rejuiced. Kronos, at this point, has more power over Hell than Lucifer did. The number and strength of Wordbound fluctuate as the competing demons gain and lose favour with Kronos. Heaven picks of the weakened ones when it can (similiar to 1), but the real goal would be to neutralize Kronos. Another interesting variation, for added frailty, would be that Kronos, whatever his capabilities, needs to be hooked up to a piece of monster Vaputech to grant and/or sustain words. This gives Vapula a share in the governing of Hell, and gives Heaven something to shoot at and send deep cover agents in to destroy and such. (Vapula may be able to repair and or rebuild the Word-granting machine, but if Words are still deteriorating, Hell is weakened considerably before he gets it back online). All this could also happen, of course, if Lucifer's dead man's switch also activates if he redeems (which wouldn't be completely unreasonable. Especially if Lucifer himself decided that if he were to decide that he was wrong, he didn't want any trouble from his former minions). Cheers, Ryan "'We always collect our debts.' 'In full.' 'With interest.' 'And meathooks.'" -Croup and Vandermar, Neverwhere ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 13:19:22 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> "No! You fool! That's the Time Eraser Button!" - --On Friday, November 24, 2000 08:52 -0800 Maurice Lane wrote: > *Odd. It seems much more farfetched when written out > like that. Well, so does the Anabasis. :) This is SUCH a cool comparison! Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("They think that because they have killed our good general Cleophas that we are helpless. They don't know that we are a whole army of generals..." ) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 11:18:48 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Wahnp Wahnp, Wahnp Wahnp, Wahnp Wahnp... Tired of your players maxing out on pure combat skills and the Celestial Song of Light, but not quite ready yet to borrow the Really Big Stick? Toss this one out to them, and watch them allocate points to Ethereal Forces and really, really obscure languages!* If they don't wanna, toss adversaries at them that did all that, kick their collective butts, and politely point out that you can get bonuses to Tactics rolls when you can openly shout out your battle plan. _That_ should get them motivated. As always, feel free to fold, spindle, mutilate and enjoy - and drop me a line if you think this needs balancing, OK? :) Moe *And, if you can't get a adventure hook or two out of a party's sudden Need for forgotten tongues (searching the bowels of Hell / the Far Marches for native speakers, seeking out forgotten libraries/ancient tombs, trading favors with older celestials/ethereals, etc, etc, etc), well, the above ones work. :) Song of Gibberish (Ethereal) This Ethereal Song has just been discovered, and is rapidly spreading through the ranks of both Heaven and Hell. It's uncertain yet whether there's a Corporeal or Celestial version, but quite a few researchers are looking into the question. Despite its name (given by a rare frivolous Malakite of the Sword), this Song actually aids secure communication. The performer may freely combine any corporeal language that he or she knows at level/3 or above (languages chosen before activation of the Song) while communicating (speech or the written word), as naturally as if it was his or her birth speech. The result sounds like gibberish (especially if three or more languages are combined), but while the Song is going on, any entity within earshot with 6 or more Forces who also know the languages used at level/3 may make a Intelligence roll. If successful, the entity will understand the performer perfectly for the duration of the Song. Knowledge of all of the languages used at level/6 will obviate the need for a Roll. A failed Intelligence roll means that the listener hears only gibberish. To actually respond, the hearer must use the Song of Gibberish herself: a Perception roll at +2 will clue in what languages were used in the original speech, provided of course that the entity made her original Intelligence roll. Deciphering text written under the influence of this Song is easier. Anyone knowing the right languages (especially linguists) will be able to eventually work out the meaning: a successful use of the Song will do the same thing instantly, provided that the performer knows the tongues used originally. Even if the performer doesn't happen to know all of the languages, meaning can sometimes be derived from context: make a Perception roll at -2, plus an additional -3 for each language not known at level/3+, to get the gist of a particular text. Note that this can also be used on a transcript or recording of speech encrypted by this Song. Some celestials have discovered that using only one language works, too (the speech comes out as highly obscure slang): however, any listener with the language at level/4 will automatically decipher the encrypted speech or writing. Bonus: Kyriotates, the Media Essence: 1 Duration: 10 minutes, although copies made of the encrypted messages will last indefinitely. Range: Earshot Extra Disturbance: None ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1937 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.