From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun May 21 06:22:44 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA00437 for ; Sun, 21 May 2000 06:22:44 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id GAA00168 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 21 May 2000 06:20:55 -0500 Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 06:20:55 -0500 Message-Id: <200005211120.GAA00168@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1637 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, May 21 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1637 In this digest: Re: IN> Sharing words and Subtext IN> Re: RPG.net reviews! Re: IN> A Loss for Words IN> Gabrielle's judgement IN> Sharing Words and subtext Re: IN> A Loss for Words Re: IN> A Loss for Words Re: IN> A Loss for Words IN> Age and words IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1636 Re: IN> RPG.net reviews! IN> Archangels Already Sick Of Cardinal O'Connor Re: IN> Pentagrams (was: In Nomine Dice) IN> Some Advice Please Re: IN> Sharing Words and subtext Re: IN> Pentagrams (was: In Nomine Dice) Re: IN> Some Advice Please Re: IN> Some Advice Please Re: IN> A Loss for Words Re: IN> Gabrielle's judgement Re: IN> Some Advice Please ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 14:24:19 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Sharing words and Subtext At 9:32 AM -0400 5/20/00, Jason Schneiderman wrote: > >I think I prefer Words painted in broader strokes than that. I like the >idea that Fleurity has domain over both morphine and heroin, as opposed to >a hypothetical Angel of Medicine. I like the fact that the Solidarity that >David promotes sometimes is turned to darker ends. I think that's perfectly recconcilable with shared Words. Normally, *any* promotion of a Word benefits the holder, including ones from the opposite side of the street. Lilith can have the positive aspects of Freedom. Fleurity can have Coreg. When both a demon and angel hold the same word, doing Word-Battle over it, suddenly the Angel is *forced* to push the positive elements he always liked better anyhow. And the Demon is forced to pushed the demonic elements of the Word. But neither can afford to damage the Word so much that *they* suffer. It's an interesting dance, if you think about it. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 13:39:50 -0500 From: Graveyard Greg Subject: IN> Re: RPG.net reviews! At 08:18 AM 5/20/2000 -0400, you wrote: >http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_3063.html (Superiors 2) >http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_3064.html (Liber Canticorum) > >Thank you! Hmmm...apparently I was too subtle when I asked for reviews to use on Gaming Outpost.... :) *ahem* I WANT REVIEWS TO USE FOR THE GAMING OUTPOST! Send all submissions to graveyard@gamingoutpost.com If they are good, I'll post them. Make Elizabeth proud! Graveyard Greg _____________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 14:46:29 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> A Loss for Words At 11:54 AM -0400 5/20/00, Jason Schneiderman wrote: > >Jason Schneiderman wrote: > >Would you indulge me in a thought experiment? > >Consider this: A Superior dies. Let's use Haagenti - he probably won't >mind. There is no Demon Prince of Gluttony any more. The word is not >assigned for forty years. (Forty years is two generations, and a good >biblical number) This is an even better example than you think, as there was a demon of Gluttony before Haagenti who did die. >In your mind, how is humanity different? What changes does the lack of a >Superior wreak on society? There would no longer be an active proponent pushing, supporting and in generally trying to make Gluttony universal. Various financial backers of All You Can Eat places will disappear. Various 'doctors' promoting diet pills that let you 'eat all you want and lose weight' will no longer seem to be in practice. Various advertising executives famous for "Gotta Catch 'Em All" style campaigns don't show up to work one day. Some people will still overeat, compulsively or not. Some people will still overconsume products and services. But without a direct, powerful and malevolent presence actively promoting Gluttony as good, more and more people will listen to health experts and exercise gurus. Left totally unopposed, the Angels will make huge gains against Gluttony in concept and deed. To recover some of that gap, different forces in Hell will start picking up aspects of Gluttony, to cover the absense. Mammon will again promote overconsumption as a part of hoarding. Kobal will come up with ridiculous fads where you have to buy one of everything to feel complete. Asmodeus will start pushing Collectible Card Games. And perhaps a new Demon of Sloth will be named. So -- there's no difference between Gluttony being there or not being there? Not at all -- because all of those Demon Princes have finite resources. The more they need to turn those resources to things Haagenti used to do, the less they can push on other fronts. Hell becomes more strained. The overall promotion of selfishness is reduced. Society gets somewhat better. Heaven throws a party. Make sense? - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 16:01:40 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Gabrielle's judgement > Good. Brrrrrr.....will keep things from repeating. >And, as it happens, Gabriel went off and did it while the Council >was debating whether it was really a good thing. Ofanim, yeesh. >The altered texts were the worse part, though. Ah makes perfect sense. Traditional Gabrielle going off on her own. >This is what Dominic would like to know. However, when he started >arranging the trial where these questions could be asked, Gabriel >stormed out in a huff. In this case I'm more reaching for the pros/cons and your opinions on the matter thank you but definately I agree with your words on it. How would you feel if you were doubted and called a liar before the entire celestial heriachy. >Those changes, IIRC, are not mentioned in canon -- you can make them >up. This is of course a very sticky issue as anything that is changed in the book indicates something which seriously alters what exactly God will be calling "okay" in the near future. Something to definately think about. (Take a look at the Mormon orgins story-anyone wondering what Dominic thought of the Mormon patron?) Limited polygamy? The destruction/abolishment of idols? Prayer Five times a day? The people of the Book being tolerated? Jesus's altering from God to Prophet? Anything of these might be very interesting to investigate....who knows Uriel's crusade against the pagans might be a percipating/resulting factor in some ways. Hehehe Dominic must be tearing his hair out. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 16:39:42 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Sharing Words and subtext >(This is a button of mine. Forgive me, as I react to it's being pushed.) No problem *push* push. >The Angel of Half-Full Water Glasses, the Demon of Half-Empty Water Glasses? Ah yes the dueling twins from before the wall. Pessism and Optisim personified they're war is equal parts love and hate. >To be honest... I don't much care for Words being fractured in that way. I >don't feel the need for an Angel of Freedoms-I-Want or >Lust-In-Appropriate-Context or the Demon of Flowers-acting-Badly or >Judgment-Used-To-Oppress. Likewise, I don't like the idea that Nybbas' >control over the Media somehow doesn't extend to National Public Radio or >the occasional quality studio movie. Nyblas in my mind definately would have control over the Media in all forms from newspapers ("Headless Body found in Topless" bar) to Radio (Shock Talk) to movie producers in Hollywood (I want "Die Already part 58: The Bloody Scone" promoted on my television, radio, and a full color add in Time). However I don't think he would control the actual creative processes of movies (though certainly he controls the promotions) likely this falls under the demonic headings of the word that the movies embody. For instance Showgirls produced by Andre would defiantely be a lust prodject...while Walstreet would be a greed prodject. Movies likely need Nyblas's help to become high grossing films.. After all both Kobal and Nyblas's power were required to make Home Alone a sucess. >I think I prefer Words painted in broader strokes than that. I like the >idea that Fleurity has domain over both morphine and heroin, as opposed to >a hypothetical Angel of Medicine. I like the fact that the Solidarity that >David promotes sometimes is turned to darker ends. Well the way I see it is that nothing is good or evil...everything essentially started out as pure then got twisted by old Scratch. For instance Fleurity we know controls morphine and heroine and the rest and he thus is lord of drugs used to promote evil. However....another Angel with the Word of Drugs might deal with getting people off addiction and the like. I'm one really for this: Heavenly words are very broad brush stroked. Hellish words are often twisted and strange but always have the potential for vast ammounts of evil. For instance a Demon of "Excrement" (Lucifer chose a nastier word) might orginally seem like a punishment...and indeed it was from Lucifer as punishment for the guy. Old L's sense of humor. However after a few years of backing up Sewer lines he discovers that it also includes excrement of the mouth and his word becomes significantly more powerful. Perhaps even fatal stomach ailments and pollution... "Rock and Roll" Fufur after all will not only get the music (subliminal suggestions, blasphemy in lyrics, encouraging etc) but also the sex, drugs, parental disrespect, violence that occurs in concerts and the backdealing in the Music business. Perhaps even a significant portion of parental disrespect and rebbelion as music has always marked the generation gap. >And it's not just perversity on my part - although I'll admit that's an >element of it. One of the key components in my mental construction of the >IN universe is that, no matter which side wins, some of the things we find >comfortable, familiar or normal will be lost. A world where Heaven wins is >a world without Lust, without Gluttony, without Freedom as we know it. >(Probably replaced by Duty or Submission, depending on how Dark your world >is.) It may be more Heavenly, but it won't be Utopia for those who remember >what came before. Of course, a Symphony where Hell wins is without Dreams, >Creation and Judgment. It's not as though the sides are balanced. :) Well it depends as alot of what you represent in my mind I think can be replaced.....the folks here thankfully have pointed out that a angel CAN replace someone who falls...otherwise friend do you believe that Love has ceased to exist because of Andre's falling to the Dark Side? What about good natured humor? (okay that I will believe). No offense but Passionate love making will always exist because of Gabrielle (rrrr from my seraph), enjoyment of food will always exist as long as Puchini the Angel of Fine Cuisine exists, and freedom will always exist as long as Wind, Creation, Flowers, and Fire mess with Dominic's head. Only self destruction and the negative aspects of it will dissapear....Stone boy will make life difficult anywho. >( Someone's probably thinking about words like Fire, Stone, Flowers and >Wind. In my ear, those Words ring Celestially as "The Word of the Human >Perception of " - and their depiction in the game supports that, I >think. Should Flowers fall, roses and tulips will still grow. They'll >simply cease to mean anything. To anyone. ) This is a interesting factor...how do you consider the "after-effects" of a worded angel's death. My PCs just slew Zzzipla the Djinni of Lighting serving Belial (the sixth to hold that title-Jean really hates his attempts to get that word). Three computer hackers killed children to power him up so he could take over the net. However the 1600 year old lighting tosser was 80-6ed by my Serpah and another player. The resultant effect was a storm that cover everywhere from New Orleans up the Rocky Mountains to New York as the "symphony" reacted to the "clattering cymbal" of his explosian. computers of wicked people crashed and viruses were aplenty. Thoughts on this? - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 18:31:53 +0100 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> A Loss for Words >My view - and I'm beginning to suspect that here is where it differs from >yours - is that a Word deprived of the active support of a Superior begins >to wither and die. If Andrealphus fell, the idea of Lust would begin to >fade - and so would its trappings. Adult movies, heated pick-ups in party >cloakrooms, maybe even masturbation. Sex as an end in and of itself - as >opposed to the desire to procreate or show spousal affection - would >vanish from the popular consciousness. I'm not canon but, I couldn't define Andrealphus the way you do. Andre is interested in sex as 'power over', or sex indulged in to the point of denying other aspects of life. Sex as an end in itself, to please and be pleased (or even just to please oneself without the exploitation of another) are of little interest to Andrealphus, unless they allow him to gain a foothold... >Without Haagenti, the idea that you'd want 31 flavors of ice cream or >dozens of thick rich sauces would begin to seem daft. People would eat >more simply. Again, enjoyment of food, or the urge for variety in what one eats are nothing to do with Haagenti. I might like a scoop of strawberry icecream this moth, a scoop of chocolate icecream next month and a scoop of vanilla in September. Haagenti would HATE my moderation. > Without Lilith, revolution would be unthinkable. Then I guess Gabriel would eventually get around to overthrowing cruel oppressors.. How, in your scheme of things, do you figure Gabriel and Belial? They, after all, have the same Word. I don't have a problem with entities on opposite sides each trying to put their own twist onto the same concept. In our games, Eli would be considered to have a large input into the media. Not in the same sense as Nybbas, but in the sense that positively creative people are needed by Nybbas and, sometimes, they manage to hang onto their integrity. That said, we tend to run VERY low contrast. Neither dark nor bright - but heavy on the Ethereals. Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 18:20:15 +0100 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> A Loss for Words >If the answer is "not at all" or "not very much"... then having a Word >starts to feel to me like betting on the horses. Your fortunes can rise and >fall based on its performance... but the horse doesn't much care what >happens to *you*. It runs on its own. I'm not claiming to be canon, but using your analogy, the horse runs on its own. The superior is more like the jockey (or maybe the trainer) than the person who puts on a bet. The gambler, by this analogy, is someone who CHOOSES to support that superior, betting their future on how well that Superior rides (or trains) the horse. The Hilary part of.. Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 07:23:28 -0700 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> A Loss for Words Jason Schneiderman wrote: > My view - and I'm beginning to suspect that here is where it differs from > yours - is that a Word deprived of the active support of a Superior begins > to wither and die. If Andrealphus fell, the idea of Lust would begin to > fade - and so would its trappings. Adult movies, heated pick-ups in party > cloakrooms, maybe even masturbation. Sex as an end in and of itself - as > opposed to the desire to procreate or show spousal affection - would vanish > from the popular consciousness. > > Without Haagenti, the idea that you'd want 31 flavors of ice cream or > dozens of thick rich sauces would begin to seem daft. People would eat more > simply. Without Lilith, revolution would be unthinkable. Oannes, Archangel of the Waters, died in 1627 BC. We still have water. Arguably, the oceans are more polluted than they were before his death, but they haven't been affected in the way you're suggesting. I think the difference is that in canon, the Word-bound _act_ to promote their Word in various ways; if they die, the promotion stops, but the thing/concept being promoted still exists. In your view, the Word-bound are _manifestations_ of their Word, and their very existence is part of a symbiotic relationship; if they die, the Word is weakened. While I agree with you in some respects, I do prefer the canon version, simply becasue it's more active. Canon Word-bound must keep _doing_ things to promote their Word and plans. To me, your Word-bounds seem more passive; they foster their Word simply by existing, and don't have to do anything to promote it. - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia Some days I know that if I let my brain fully understand what my gut was propelling me into, it'd chuck itself out my ear. - Spider Jerusalem, TRANSMETROPOLITAN #19 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 17:11:58 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Age and words >This is covered in Superiors 2. Does anyone suspect that I'm still getting set up with the books I require? Come on...raise your hands. Anyone got any good recommendations as well? :-) >Frex, no one has replaced Andre as Angel of Love... but some of the other >Archangels (Eli, Novalis, and someone else) have expanded their Words a >little to move into the empty space. Okay that makes certain ammount of sense. A person may make himself the personal no. 1 on Andre's list but he's not going to attract the attention of someone who goes out and petitions to become the living embodiment of Cupid and other ideas. >Usually the latter. One problem is that anyone who moves in to take a >Prince's former Word is going to instantly become a bigtime target for that >Prince. So it would have to be a matter of plugging in an angel who was >_already_ very very powerful. I suspect that the reverse is also true with Novalis taking an extremely dim view of her Angel of Poppies falling and becomming Fleurety. Or Jean discovering repeatadly Belial is trying to find a demon to take over lighting and thus the Internet (who thinks Nybblas has something to do with SPAM?) Dominic and Asmodeus of course don't see the resembelance "Bah he just destroys Heaven/Hell with his actions" >Remember, the Seraphim Council awards Words that will serve Heaven -- >not necessarily Words that the character embodies. Being forgetful >won't make them inclined to give you a Word; you'd have to prove that >you could promote the Word in a way that served Heaven's interests. True though it likely plays a factor in the storyline. Isaiah (the seraph) basically considers Forgetfulness in the service of Heaven to encompass forgetting and leaving behind Pain, Suffering, Anger, and the rest...which in his case revolves around his work as a minister, psychologist, and couselor. He considers forgetfulness of things like car keys, where one left things important too (discourages materlism) however it's hard to encourage. >(That said, I generally would not let PCs start with Word-bound -- >at the _least_ for our first campaign! Ewie. However, in one case, >I did have a PC be Word-bound. It's a pretty minor Word (though the >PC's made some good effects via creative use of it), and more importantly, >it's a one-shot where all the PCs started out with amnesia. I totally >designed their characters. Well aside from the amenisa part (I wonder how Isaiah is going to explain that he was married 12 years when he was a human)...I suspect I'll just give him the test he must convince someone to give up their pain whose an especially bad case of it. >I can't tell more. The game is still going. (If I can find time. AUgh.)) Well I'd love to hear the word as it was but cool. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 22:36:06 +0100 From: "mink" Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1636 A while ago i asked if any one could write up a 'humourous' thing based on what the superiors would do at the circus for the day. Well, no one sent one to me so i'm doing it instead. At the Circus Blandine: Wanders around, looks at all the animals and notes that some dreams of a dayout for the kids is in order. David: Chats to the 'carnies' and makes sure that their rights are looked after and that they all stick together. He would also check that the Demons didn't mess with the bigtop. Dominic: Would stay in Heaven, to busy with paperwork of fallen angels to bother with such frivolities like the circus. Eli: Is actually the ringmaster, and the popcorn seller, the stage magician and a clown. Gabriel: Sits, watches, waits, leaves, mutters to herself. Janus: Helps the 'carnies' when they go in to town, helps them set up the tents, helps with the chores, but is gone before the main opening night. Jean: Balks at the lack of technical stuff, and then sits back to watch the show. Jordi: Checks that all the animals are well cared for, if they're not.. then a little possesion of a cleaner is in order. Laurence: looks on confused, not understanding why the clowns are fighting eachother but only using pies and confetti. Marc: Makes sure that the opening night is well publicised and then makes sure that all the wages are upto date, fixes the books, orders some popcorn, sits back watches the show, knowing that all the stuff is sorted out. Michael: Takes comfort knowing that Dominic is upstairs, fretting over paperwork, keeps one eye on the princes over the otherside of the tent, makes sure that his strike teams are in place ready for a sneak attack on the princes... Novalis: Buys some popcorn from the familier guy at the vending stand, has a great time. Yves: Eats some of Novalises popcorn, and enjoys the clowns. Andrealphus: Buys some popcorn, and sets a shedim or two on he animals so they embarass the humans. Asmodeus: Is to busy on the phone with Dominic comparing notes to bother with the circus. Baal: Sets some of the 'carnies' up for crimes, inciting the local towns to rout out the evil of carnies. Beleth: Avoids blandine, but places doubts and fears in to all the visitors dreams about escaped animals.. Belial: Is to busy in the local towns burning places down to bother with the circus. Haagenti: Ignores the rings, and stays by the candyfloss and hotdog and popcorn stands. Kobal: is strangely absent from the ring seats, but is wearing a big rednose in the ring, using the clowns as the butts of his special brand of humour. Kronos: Sets the RSPCA/Animal protection Legue against the Ringmaster and watches as the circus is closed down knowing that it will never give joy again. Malphas: Watches as all the others try to ruin the circus in their own way and mutters 'ameturs'. Nybbas: has a 'chopper and news team reaedy for the animal breakout story that will happen any time soon.... Saminga: Ignores the circus, it has little to do with him, but he does give the trapeze guy a haert attack, just for good measure. Valefor: Borrows the takings of the night as well as some of the cars that were left 'unlocked' in the park. Vapula: ponders a self errecting tent idea and starts to rush back to hell, to get the blue prints drawn up... Ok, its not humourous, but it gives me an idea for an adventure or three.... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 15:05:10 PDT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> RPG.net reviews! >From: Elizabeth McCoy >http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_3063.html (Superiors 2) >http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_3064.html (Liber Canticorum) > >Thank you! - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/6045/index.html "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 15:07:46 PDT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Archangels Already Sick Of Cardinal O'Connor from http://www.theonion.com/ 17 May 2000 Archangels Already Sick Of Cardinal O'Connor Telling Them How They Do It In New York HEAVEN--Less than two weeks after his passage into God's Eternal Kingdom, Cardinal John O'Connor is already irritating the Archangels with his constant talk of Heaven's lack of facilities, culture, and cosmopolitanism compared to New York City, his former place of residence. "He doesn't complain about the manna, per se, but he won't let us forget that you can't find a decent Italian restaurant open around here after 11 p.m.," Archangel Gabriel said Monday. "We're also well aware that the Lord's Heavenly Choir doesn't hold a candle to the New York Choral Society, whose recent performance of Verdi's Requiem at Carnegie Hall was far better than anything the Cardinal ever expects to hear around here." - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/6045/index.html "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 15:24:14 PDT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Pentagrams (was: In Nomine Dice) >"Kiara S. Legner" wrote: > > Erm... The Pentagram doesn't seem to be an IN symbol in any of the >books... > > > >I suspect the reaction of most demons to a pentagram is "Oh, how cute! >The dweeb sorcerer drew a pentagram. I'll bet you think I can't step >over that line, don't you....?" > >The reaction of most angels would be "You're either clueless or stupid >or both. Whatever you drew that thing to protect yourself against, you'd >better pray you never actually meet one." > >-David Unless the sorceror happens to use the Pentagram as a ritual for his Song of Shields . . . And/Or a Corporeal Song of Forbidding (LCant pg 35) . . . And/Or a Ward as per Focus/1 and/or Focus/6 (CPG pp 39-41) . . . In which case the demon would probably be pissed off instead of being patronizing and belittling the sorceror's beliefs. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/6045/index.html "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 23:33:44 +0100 From: "mink" Subject: IN> Some Advice Please Some Advice Please. Once more i have fallen down in my head and i'm stumped on a few things, so i would greatly appreciate some help from who ever can give it. 1) can an Etherial go in to heaven or hell? i know that many of the Ethers have a grudge against heaven since Uriel and his 'purity picnic day out'. if they can enter H^ or Hv would they be escorted round like ambasadors/'free' prisoners. or are they destroyed by the powers celestial. 2) if god was just a Ether that found how to use the symphony/celestial realm, then would it be possible for an Ether to find how to use a new realm of existance? i ask this because i'm thinking of running a campaign in the 'Digital' realm, the true Digital realm, not the internet etc as we/they know it. it would be a kind of In Nomine/Matrix cross over hash together thingamybob. 3) has any one tred to run a game that started in the 'dark ages' then brought it forward by a few centuries each installment? if so coud you tell me what superiors were more prominent as the ages went through. the ages im looking at are Dark Ages, Renesaince, Elizabethan, Wild West, Georgean, WW1, WW2, Hippy Era and Modern. perhaps SJG could do an 'eras book' (liber tempus or liber aevern), it would be a great boost for the players who could then decied which era the charecter was created in and that they may have affected in some way or another. Ok, thats it for now, thanks in advance for your help. }:-)~ COLGAROTHIALMES, Demom of Damnation, Shedite without a spell checker ~(-8{ ICQ 60645575 malakim@lineone.net psyber@hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 17:43:03 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Sharing Words and subtext Charles Phipps wrote: > For instance a Demon of "Excrement" (Lucifer chose a nastier word) might > orginally seem like a punishment...and indeed it was from Lucifer as > punishment for the guy. Old L's sense of humor. > > However after a few years of backing up Sewer lines he discovers that it > also includes excrement of the mouth and his word becomes significantly more > powerful. Perhaps even fatal stomach ailments and pollution... Depends on what Word Lucifer really gave him in the celestial tongue. Remember that whatever English word we use to represent a celestial word doesn't necessarily have the same connotations. Words are more specific (though they can be phrased to encompass a broad area, and Lucifer in particular is likely to give some twisted Words with unexpected applications). So the Demon of Excrement (who might variously call himself in English the Demon of Crap, the Demon of Poo, or the Demon of S***) might have a Word that translates in Helltongue as "Fecal Matter," which means he's pretty much stuck backing up sewers. OTOH, if Lucifer gave him a Word that means, in Helltongue, "Filthy Excretions," then he might well be able to apply his Word in a broader manner than just scatalogically. > "Rock and Roll" Fufur after all will not only get the music (subliminal > suggestions, blasphemy in lyrics, encouraging etc) but also the sex, drugs, > parental disrespect, violence that occurs in concerts and the backdealing in > the Music business. Furfur *asked* for "Rock and Roll," but the Word he actually got was "Hardcore." - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 17:45:32 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Pentagrams (was: In Nomine Dice) Perry Lloyd wrote: > In which case the demon would probably be pissed off instead of being > patronizing and belittling the sorceror's beliefs. He'd still be patronizing and belittle the sorcerer's beliefs. But he would be pissed off that someone actually taught the sorcerer something useful. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 17:46:28 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Some Advice Please mink wrote: > 1) can an Etherial go in to heaven or hell? No. > 2) if god was just a Ether that found how to use the symphony/celestial > realm, then would it be possible for an Ether to find how to use a new realm > of existance? Theoretically, yes. A lot of ethereals seem to think so. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 20:26:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Gant Subject: Re: IN> Some Advice Please On Sat, 20 May 2000, mink wrote: > Once more i have fallen down in my head and i'm stumped on a few things, so > i would greatly appreciate some help from who ever can give it. > 1) can an Etherial go in to heaven or hell? i know that many of the Ethers > have a grudge against heaven since Uriel and his 'purity picnic day out'. if > they can enter H^ or Hv would they be escorted round like ambasadors/'free' > prisoners. or are they destroyed by the powers celestial. As far as I know, Ethereals cannot enter Heaven (although my campaign includes one Word-bound angel who can *take* them there - see the Angel of the Dragon Court on my page). Many probably wouldn't, simply because of Uriel's Crusade. (Uriel's "purity picnic day out"? Ummm... barbecued fairy...) I don't believe they can enter Hell, either. However, tradition includes the fair folk paying a thithe of souls to Hell every 7 years, and the game includes many Ethereals serving Hell, so they *could* have a standing invitation to enter Hell through Blandine's Tower. > 2) if god was just a Ether that found how to use the symphony/celestial > realm, then would it be possible for an Ether to find how to use a new realm > of existance? i ask this because i'm thinking of running a campaign in the > 'Digital' realm, the true Digital realm, not the internet etc as we/they > know it. it would be a kind of In Nomine/Matrix cross over hash together > thingamybob. Sure. Why not. > 3) has any one tred to run a game that started in the 'dark ages' then > brought it forward by a few centuries each installment? if so coud you tell > me what superiors were more prominent as the ages went through. the ages im > looking at are Dark Ages, Renesaince, Elizabethan, Wild West, Georgean, WW1, > WW2, Hippy Era and Modern. perhaps SJG could do an 'eras book' (liber tempus > or liber aevern), it would be a great boost for the players who could then > decied which era the charecter was created in and that they may have > affected in some way or another. Not yet, but my summer plans include a "generational" campaign. It'll be set in a coal-mining town in Virginia (West Virginia after the Civil War), which will go to the present day. I don't think the Superiors were any more or less prominant in the past, however. They represent themes in the symphony, after all. Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/4656/ The Returners Final Fantasy Role-Playing Game Site: http://returners.simplenet.com/ or http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Matrix/5758/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 07:34:00 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> A Loss for Words At 11:06 AM -0400 5/20/00, Jason Schneiderman wrote: >I'm getting the following impression: Superiors are their Words... but >Words are not their Superiors? Am I following you? yah -- that is the canon, as it happens. (see habbie disclaimer about weak GMs who leyt themselves be bound, etc). If there were no andre, then lust would cary on, on momentum, but creation & flowers might staret beibg able tro twist it to "honest, csaring, desire" -- changing the perceptions of it and how it manifests in human thoughts. But the uncaring aspects of lust wouold still be in the Symphony -- just de-emphasized by angelic efforts. (The idea that killing a Suoerior = killing the Word is an interresting varient, though.) - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap and no computer desk -- the keyboard shares the lap, and the trackball sits on a pile of GURPS books. I want the computer desk back! Moving is a hassle. (PS: may be typing with 1 hand, or even toe! Please forgive capitalization.) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 07:33:59 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Gabrielle's judgement At 4:01 PM -0400 5/20/00, Charles Phipps wrote: >> Good. > >Brrrrrr.....will keep things from repeating. (Sometimes... It's _good_ to be a Princess... };> ) [Various questions[ >>This is what Dominic would like to know. However, when he started >>arranging the trial where these questions could be asked, Gabriel >>stormed out in a huff. > >In this case I'm more reaching for the pros/cons and your opinions on the >matter thank you but definately I agree with your words on it. Well, there is a box about all this (and about how it could hardly have happened differently, once the wheels were set in motion) in Superiors 3 (barring Infernal Interventions at the printer, like the on that cut off the last two sentences or so of Superiors 1 -- it was fine when it left the SJGames offices!). (And I didn't even write more than a little additional material for S3...) >>Those changes, IIRC, are not mentioned in canon -- you can make them >>up. > >This is of course a very sticky issue as anything that is changed in the >book indicates something which seriously alters what exactly God will be >calling "okay" in the near future. Something to definately think about. That's a large part of why they aren't mentioned, probably -- _what_ they are is likely to affect a campaign almost as much as deciding the nature of Jesus Christ >(Take a look at the Mormon orgins story-anyone wondering what Dominic >thought of the Mormon patron?) IIRC, Dominic thinks that the Mormons came up with it on their own, and simply droops his wings at the ability of humans to deceive themselves. In canon. Which, as usual, may be taken and folded, strangled, and mutilated if the GM wishes to for purposes of his own campaign(s). (Heck, I've been known to do it myself, though _usually_ only on a per-campaign basis.) >Hehehe Dominic must be tearing his hair out. Why do you think Seraphim are bald? Like Elohim, the secrets of teh universe longago frustrated them... - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap and no computer desk -- the keyboard shares the lap, and the trackball sits on a pile of GURPS books. I want the computer desk back! Moving is a hassle. (PS: may be typing with 1 hand, or even toe! Please forgive capitalization.) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 07:33:58 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Some Advice Please At 11:33 PM +0100 5/20/00, mink wrote: >1) can an Etherial go in to heaven or hell? Not in canon. (I thought we just went over this a few weeks ago...? Huh.) Celestials claim ethereals are soulless and can't get to the celestial realm. Ethereals claim that Yaweh has found a way to forbid those who are not his creatures (or the humans he uses for power) into his Domain (i.e., that Domain known as the celestial realm)... Of course, a Superior might be able to personally escort someone around, and there is always the Song of Projection. >2) if god was just a Ether that found how to use the symphony/celestial >realm, then would it be possible for an Ether to find how to use a new realm >of existance? GM call. The angels (and demons) will laugh at someone proposing this, while the ethereals sigh wistfully at the thought of finding the font of Yaweh's ascention. >3) has any one tred to run a game that started in the 'dark ages' then >brought it forward by a few centuries each installment? Not yet, but it's always sounded like a good idea to me. O:> >if so coud you tell >me what superiors were more prominent as the ages went through. the ages im Check out the timeline in the Game Master's Guide -- a valuable, valuable resource listing approximate (or definite) dates of the rise and fall of various Superiors. If you can find it, you can then compare and contrast with GURPS Timeline (I think out of print at the moment? or am I behind the times?), which has a lot of seeds for timetravelers which also apply as seeds for historical games... (There are few to no stats in GURPS Timeline, IIRC. Any that are there that can't be figured out would naturally benefit from owning GURPS In Nomine (at the printers), but that's a totally self-serving plug to mention. Even if it does include conversions both to GURPS, and from it, back into In Nomine terms.) [No, no, I'm not trying to seriously sell GURPS IN to anyone who isn't planning on picking it up already. I am _unseriously_ trying to sell GURPS IN to anyone who moves and breathes occasionally, including your spinster aunt marsha who would faint in shock.) - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap and no computer desk -- the keyboard shares the lap, and the trackball sits on a pile of GURPS books. I want the computer desk back! Moving is a hassle. (PS: may be typing with 1 hand, or even toe! Please forgive capitalization.) ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1637 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.