From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon May 22 13:25:09 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA21417 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 13:25:08 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id NAA31087 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 22 May 2000 13:22:59 -0500 Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 13:22:59 -0500 Message-Id: <200005221822.NAA31087@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1639 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, May 22 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1639 In this digest: IN> Gibberings IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1638 Re: IN> some more gibberings... IN> IN Dice - reroll! Re: IN> Some Advice Please Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1635 Re: IN> Words Re: IN> some more gibberings... Re: IN> some more gibberings... Re: IN> some more gibberings... Re: IN> In Nomine Dice Re: IN> Words Re: IN> In Nomine Dice Re: IN> Gabrielle's judgement Re: IN> Archangel Christopher Re: IN> In Nomine Dice Re: IN> some more gibberings... Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1638 Re: IN> Age and Words (semi-long) Re: IN> Archangel Christopher Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! Re: IN> Some Advice Please Re: IN> Some Advice Please Re: IN> How many angels ya figure their are? Re: IN> Age and Words Re: IN> How many angels ya figure their are? Re: IN> In Nomine Dice Re: IN> Humans with Words Re: IN> Age and Words Re: IN> In Nomine Dice IN> Words for all! Re: IN> Words for all! Re: IN> In Nomine Dice Re: IN> Words for all! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 19:54:19 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Gibberings >Talk about Inspiration from strange places.. i was in my kitchen and >suddenly the thought of Buffy ((not quite but nearly a WW franchise?!?)) >came in to mind. I try to avoid thinking about the show now...what was first a prodject under the direction of Michael (religeon is about slaying monsters and being a good person while juggling real life) got bought out by Nybblas and is now indistinguishable from his regular garbage. >I got to thinking, which is a hazardous hobby i ness with once in a while. >1) Is buffy a Malakite who got a role so high that she is now convinced >that she is the cute girl who must destroy evil? I think that Michael based her on his daughter by a cute little chick in Noah's time.....very bouncy little Nephilim. He combined it with the common complaint of angelic children getting fostered by a bunch of soldiers of Yves. >Or has Nybaas got in on the act and corrupted some poor lil girl in to being >a hell sworn soldier and a tv starlet? You saw my take. >Or has Michael and Laurence got together with Eli and made the tv series?? >does anyone else have a theory on this? Look above I said. Joss Wheldon started out as a soldier but they dumped him for the better off in Nybblas's service.....poor Willow, Giles, Buffy, and so forth. I'm not sure but Angel yet still seems uncorrupted...abeit it's more like a Michael/Eli work (I bet he felt sorry for Mike) dark, gritty, and outcast...they perservere to redeem and destroy... >2) i was reading through some digest's the other day and folks keep >mentioning the fact that demons only get 7 forces to start with. What >gives???? i mean, id that for npc's or players as well? do the demons get >free vessels or roles or other stuff like that? why do they have start with >7 instead of 9 forces???? Because Demons basically don't have particular restrictions against dealing drugs, shooting mortals (even if it calls folk), torture and the like. Even killing your superior is likely only to get you promoted unless you serve Asmodeus. Basically also the average demon can call in a bunch of dudes from the local cess pool and get some pretty high numbers....fast.... >3) (its not In Nomine..)) what is the pc game of MESSIAH like? i need honets >reviews please, i found a great game called 'afterlife' in the shop the >other day, woo fun... sim heaven/hell. not too bad... could have been much >better though. aree there many other games like these two on the market? Afterlife I swore had to be an inspiration for In Nomine as the tone is exactly the same....well accept for the whole no war going on. It's truly hilarious the off the wall humor and heavenly/hellish puns. Frankly whenever I'm at a loss for ideas to describe Hell's torments and Heaven's rewards I just plug in the game for inspiration....however I'm neither God or Marc in money matters...sigh. Tough to beat. >SimHeaven (as its likened to be called). It's a GREAT product. We're >not quite sure what Jasper is, but Aria is annoyingly a Mercurian of >Flowers to a 'T'. Oh please give us Novalisians SOME credit! Jasper seems to me to be the perfectional Balseraph of Factions...but I can't shake the feeling he just got out of serving in the media. This, Dogma, and the Prophecy are my three inspirations for the average campaign of mine (I also use City of Angels to get some ideas of Angelic visuals). - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 17:09:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1638 Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 11:06:56 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1635 At 8:40 AM -0400 5/21/00, Mary wrote: >>>Ahem. Two celestials can share a Word. Humans don't >>>get to unless your GM is going to think about the >>>canon implications and make the break deliberately. >>>(It's something that I'd consider campaign-moving >>>enough that I strongly suggest not doing it on a >>>whim. It should be a campaign _focus_.)> >>Alright, I'm a little slow. What are the (possibly >>grevious) canoni implications of a human getting a >>word? I thought it would just be generally annoying >>if they died in about 50 yrs, and that could be >>solved by judicious use of the corporeal song >>entropy. It also has little bearing on immediate >>game play. >bewcause of what changes it makes to the human soul - -->b generally, humans are too -complex_ to be bound to >a single overpowerring theme (or note, for little >words) in the symphony. >- --Beth True. OTOH, there's nothing to stop demons from _telling_ their human servants that they could eventually get a Word ... if they follow orders on Earth and serve well in Hell. Depending on whether Lilith's original status as a normal or not is widely known, she might be the poster child for this particular delusion. Heck, Sorcerers in particular will Geas themselves to the hilt in order to even get the chance to find out how to emulate her*... Of _course_ they're deluded. Being Hellsworn isn't exactly a good long term investment, after all. :) Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of Endless Loops *"Sorry, dear, that information is a little costly. Tell you what, do this little favor for me, and if everything goes well, I'll see what I can do about getting you what you Need..." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 17:15:28 -0700 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: Re: IN> some more gibberings... PC Celestials all begin with nine Forces. Angels and demons. However, demonlings 'fledge' into demons at 7 Forces. So the majority of NPC demons are 7 Forces. But there are many more demons than angels. Sean ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:17 +1000 From: surturz@zip.com.au Subject: IN> IN Dice - reroll! If we are talking only a small set of dice for commercial reasons, perhaps all six sides should be unusual. I think two molds and two colours would be as much as we could probably hope for. So.. a "demon" die and an "angel" one? Choir/band symbols as the pips might be cool, although getting them to look good that small would be difficult. Pity since there are seven choirs/bands that one each side would miss out (bags not Habbalah!). Pity there aren't six deadly sins. SurturZ Habbalite of Factions, Angel of Constructive Criticism ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 00:26:43 +0100 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> Some Advice Please >They don't tend to be the Celestials who get assigned to develop Roles, or >sit in one place for three centuries doing not much of anything, or end up >as one of the cogs in the overall organizations. > >That being said, I tend to use celestial middle-management in my games, >with the Top Level being involved only when necessary. (Laurence being >*busy,* you see.) That's the point. PC's can be as favoured as the basic game suggests, but my feeling is that summoning a superior every time you need a bit of advice is not a good way to STAY favoured. Better they have mentors, or supporters or whatever in middle management to fulfil day to day requirements of that nature. Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 23:40:39 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1635 - --On Sun, May 21, 2000 11:29 -0500 David Rodemaker wrote: > > The Canon implication is this: > > If a Human gets a Word.... you're not playing Canon anymore. > > The Other David > The elusive Word of "Cooking with Gas". Marc. Just Marc. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 23:42:57 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Words - --On Sun, May 21, 2000 14:42 -0400 Charles Phipps wrote: > True enough on this matter but very few demons I suspect are truly > trapped in dead end words....unless the Nasty Lord of Darkness is > thinking of offing the poor sot in some terribly embarrasing way (The > Demon of "ABC's Friday Night lineup" just as some Malakim take over > producing) and...even I find it hard to believe Old Scratch is that > bored. No, but after 200 more years of it, you can bet the demon will get the idea that maybe, *maybe* suicide is the answer. Whoops! Not an option. Oh boy.... And then the screaming sets in. Marc. Just Marc. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 00:16:07 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> some more gibberings... - --On Sun, May 21, 2000 17:15 -0700 Sean McCarthy wrote: > But there are many more demons than angels. Uh...other way around, by a two-to-one margin. Marc. Just Marc. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 21:25:59 -0700 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: Re: IN> some more gibberings... Our spies report that on 12:16 AM 5/22/00 -0400, Marc Bowden said: >--On Sun, May 21, 2000 17:15 -0700 Sean McCarthy > wrote: > > > But there are many more demons than angels. > > Uh...other way around, by a two-to-one margin. To cite the FAQ:(www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/faq/#back-001) Are there more Angels or Demons? Lucifer's Forces were originally outnumberd 2 to 1 in the War and, one must presume, he lost more of his host than God did. Afterwards, though, he started creating new demons as fast as he could, as described on p. 155. The current situation seems to be that there are more demons than angels, but demons are generally weaker. Notice how scared the demon was in A Dark Dream when he heard an angel was in town? This is how a vast number of the infernal hordes feel about the average angel. Sean (Hey look! The FAQ has a typo...) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 00:26:33 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> some more gibberings... At 12:16 AM -0400 5/22/00, Marc Bowden wrote: >--On Sun, May 21, 2000 17:15 -0700 Sean McCarthy > wrote: > > > But there are many more demons than angels. > > Uh...other way around, by a two-to-one margin. Nope. One third of the Host *fell,* true. But Demon Production has been extremely high in the thousands upon thousands of years since. Hell has a substantial numeric advantage against Heaven now. Though it can be argued that the average quality of Angel is higher than the average quality of Demon. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:17:11 +0100 From: "Laurent" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Dice Matthew wrote: > [snip] two sets, with the Angelic set having the IN cross in place of the 1s, > and the Demonic set having the IN cross in place of the 6s. agreed. > Using the cross (a recognized holy symbol) as the demonic six, > doesn't jive right with me. > so you'd having demons looking for three holy symbols for being rolled up. Well, depends on how you turn the dice. I'm no expert in religion, but I believe an upside-down cross is generally considered as a demonic symbol. I vote for the cross on the 1's for angelic dice, and the very same cross on the 6's for demonic dice. Plus, using the same symbol for the two sets should make production cheaper (I think). <<< As for people not liking the four dice set since they can give a second set to their players, think of at this way. Buy three sets, you are actually buying four, or just give them two regular dice so they at least have one nifty die. >>> I am one of these people, but you have a point here. It would be good for marketing. > Please don't use all numeric symbols dice. Not that I would really mind dots, but I think I would prefer numbers... > Sell two items related to In Nomine Dice. > 1. Just a plastic bag (...) with four dice in them (angelic and demonic) > 2. The GMs dice bag, a black pull string dice bag with the cross and > reversed cross on opposite sides, with 6 dice of each kind in it I'm not sure about 1 (maybe in a standard hard plastic box), but I definitely agree on 2!!! > In Nomine has never really put the Pentagram into its symbology > though that would make a great demonic symbol. Yeah, a pentagram would look great. Even though it doesn't have much meaning in IN terms, it would look very good (on both demonic dice and the GM bag). And as specified a bit further, if you want to sell these dice, they have to be cool before anything else. By the way, I know it's a different game, but the French IN uses a pentagram on the cover of the main rule book (demonic side; the angelic side has a cross). And it DOES look good. > As for colors, marbled black/white is always good, and > metallics for the dots/pictures would make them stand out nicely. Here again, I'm no expert for this kind of stuff, but I would imagine the expensive part in producing dice would be to create the special symbols to be carved. I don't think producing versions with different background and dot/number colors would cost much more. So you could offer a wider range of color/background combinations for more personalized sets (maybe 5 or 6 different combinations?). I mean, everybody's got different tastes for colors, we'll never agree on something like this... By the way, just one thing: please, let them be rounded-corner dice!! Role-playing 6-faces dice tend to have square corner, which makes them horrible to roll. Please... Laurent. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 08:18:18 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Words At 3:28 PM -0400 5/21/00, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >A[...]*Thrill* to >Michael coming and heckling the Morningstar from the front row, only >to have Lucifer look at the PCs and say "throw that riff-raff out, >would you?" [...] I like that plot seed.... Hmmm, good convention game.... Or Pyramid, maybe, with expansions... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 06:55:56 -0500 From: "Kiara S. Legner" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Dice >>> In Nomine has never really put the Pentagram into its symbology > though that would make a great demonic symbol. Yeah, a pentagram would look great. Even though it doesn't have much meaning in IN terms, it would look very good (on both demonic dice and the GM bag). And as specified a bit further, if you want to sell these dice, they have to be cool before anything else.<< Ex-*cuse* me? What, exactly, is the point to "looking cool" and having nothing to do with the game? IN stuff should look cool AND be tied in to the game. Pardon me while I go scavange an M-60 and add it to the wizard miniature I finished painting last night. It has nothing to do with the fantasy game the wizard was intended for, but, gosh, it would look cool. Kiara ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 05:17:03 -0700 (PDT) From: "O. S. Kerr" Subject: Re: IN> Gabrielle's judgement > > > Yves would have had a copy of the 'final version' of the > > > Qu'ran in the Library, even when he gave the original > > > version to Gabriel. > > > > Question: In canon, which version does Khalid believe? > > Gabriel was directly inspired by God, and made divine > changes. Khalid is *solidly* behind Gabriel. > Yes, I understand that K. backs G. The question was, does he believe in the Qu'ran in the Library or the one on Earth? Which version? ===== ** Lead Playtester for Storyteller: The Colon ** ** I minored in behavioral psychology. Tragic irony and human suffering are just hobbies. ** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 08:28:26 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Archangel Christopher At 5:04 PM -0400 5/21/00, Charles Phipps wrote: >Hey unfortuantely I have a slight problem in locating Night Music and have a >pressing need (A ofalim of Eli seeks another patron) for the attunements >thereof for such of the Archangel Christopher of Children if you could share >the info thanke. www.warehouse23.com has all the in-stock material... (If they give you grief... tell the nice Djinn Princess and I'll talk to their Superior about it...) Do make an effort to acquire the book if you get the attunements -- otherwise, it's not entirely copyright-kosher... ...to get _all_ the attunements. (I'd tell you the Ofanite Choir Attunement myself, but the baby is sprawled like a ragdoll 'cross my lap nad gewtting out Night Music takes 2 hands. *sgh*) - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap and no computer desk -- the keyboard shares the lap, and the trackball sits on a pile of GURPS books. I want the computer desk back! Moving is a hassle. (PS: may be typing with 1 hand, or even toe! Please forgive capitalization.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 13:44:02 +0100 From: "Laurent" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Dice >> Yeah, a pentagram would look great. Even though it doesn't have much meaning >> in IN terms, it would look very good (on both demonic dice and the GM bag). > What, exactly, is the point to "looking cool" and having nothing to do with the game? I said "doesn't have much meaning in IN terms", not "doesn't have anything to do with the game". What I meant: though the pentagram IS used in In Nomine for sorcery rituals, it is not one of the most representative symbols of the game. Therefore, from IN official's point of view, another symbol (more representative) should be used for the demonic side of the dice. > IN stuff should look cool AND be tied in to the game. That, of course, would be perfect. But I still think the pentagram would look great. Laurent. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 08:57:04 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> some more gibberings... At 11:48 PM +0100 5/21/00, mink wrote: >Talk about Inspiration from strange places.. i was in my kitchen and >suddenly the thought of Buffy ((not quite but nearly a WW franchise?!?)) >came in to mind. Mmmmm, buffy.... http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/Movies/BuffyIOU.html >2) i was reading through some digest's the other day and folks keep >mentioning the fact that demons only get 7 forces to start with. What >gives???? i mean, id that for npc's or players as well? NPCs -- however, your PCs should generally consider that they gained 2 Forces in their backstory. This is probably in the FAQ, and almost certainly in the Infernal Player's Guide in roughly so many words. (There are some 7- & 8-Force demons in the Servitorum, no?) (Mmmm, 'afterlife' -- i started cAlling them "little monkeys" real fast.) - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap and no computer desk -- the keyboard shares the lap, and the trackball sits on a pile of GURPS books. I want the computer desk back! Moving is a hassle. (PS: may be typing with 1 hand, or even toe! Please forgive capitalization.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 08:57:01 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1638 At 5:09 PM -0700 5/21/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 11:06:56 -0400 >From: Elizabeth McCoy >Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1635 >At 8:40 AM -0400 5/21/00, Mary wrote: [...] >>bewcause of what changes it makes to the human soul >-->b generally, humans are too -complex_ to be bound >to >a single overpowerring theme (or note, for little >>words) in the symphony. >>- --Beth > >True. OTOH, there's nothing to stop demons from >_telling_ their human servants that they could >eventually get a Word ... if they follow orders on >Earth and serve well in Hell. Demons often tell humans they can be _demons_ in hell. Demons kinda lie a lot..... O:> [snip rest] Yuip, all quite plausible to canon-true. O:> - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap and no computer desk -- the keyboard shares the lap, and the trackball sits on a pile of GURPS books. I want the computer desk back! Moving is a hassle. (PS: may be typing with 1 hand, or even toe! Please forgive capitalization.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:59:04 -0400 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> Age and Words (semi-long) > At 5:55 PM -0400 05/18/00, Charles Phipps wrote: > > Out of curiousity how old do you allow your players to begin as angels[?] I don't mind if players start out very old, as long as they have a good reason why they aren't super-tough or one of the 'movers and shakers' of the IN universe. I'm currently playing a character who was born before the Fall but was in Trauma for a long, LONG time. =) Plus Malakim occasionally end up losing Forces. Occupational hazard. - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:04:35 -0500 From: Andrew Hackard Subject: Re: IN> Archangel Christopher AA Beth wrote: >www.warehouse23.com has all the in-stock material... (If they give you >grief... tell the nice Djinn Princess and I'll talk to their Superior >about it...) They shouldn't give you grief; Brendon is working VERY hard (I've seen his time sheet, so I can attest to that) to get W23 up to speed and as user-friendly as possible. Our new direct mail clerk is also putting in VERY long hours getting the games out the door. - -- Andrew Hackard /\ "My money and my Promotional Writer /()\ [CENSORED] go to Steve Jackson Games / \ Illuminati University" andrew@sjgames.com /______\ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:22:53 -0500 From: Andrew Hackard Subject: Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! >If we are talking only a small set of dice for commercial >reasons, perhaps all six sides should be unusual. I'm talking about a small number of different dice, but larger print runs, because that's how we're going to be able to keep the price down. It's just like going to Sam's, or Costco, or whatever the bulk outlet is in your area. If you buy something in really bloody large quantities, giving up selection in the process, the price can be held very low. >I think two molds and two colours would be as much as >we could probably hope for. So.. a "demon" die and an >"angel" one? There's a cost associated with new molds as well; I suspect (but haven't checked) that it would actually be cheaper to use a single mold for three or four colors than two molds for just two colors. What y'all have to keep in mind is that SJ Games is not in the dice business. Chessex can sell tons of different dice because . . . well, because they can sell tons of different dice. Also because they make the dice themselves. We're going to have to contract with someone else to make our dice for us, which adds to the expense; therefore, we're going to have to do everything we can to keep the costs down. That means that we're probably looking at solid colors, not mottled or marbled or whatever, and it probably means that it will be easier to do one design for all the dice. Incidentally, putting the same symbol on the 1 face for some dice and the 6 face for others is a very bad idea from an in-game perspective. I promise you it will confuse more people than it delights. Confusing people is a BAD idea, especially since we're looking to sell these dice to non-IN gamers so we can go back and do new designs later. This isn't a case where we want to freak the mundanes. >Choir/band symbols as the pips might be cool, although >getting them to look good that small would be difficult. You'd have to print them on the dice, not incise them. (Which, actually, is almost certainly true of *any* icon we pick; the only one that *might* be inciseable is the IN cross, and even that would lose some detail.) Please remember that dice are SMALL; the symbols just can't be too intricate or you'll lose all that detail when you reduce them to dice-size. Here's my proposal; slag it at will. Dice will be sold in sets of three. The angelic set will have two white dice with red printing and one red die with gold printing; the infernal set will have two black dice with red printing and one red die with gold printing. All the dice will have the same faces. These will be: 1: the IN cross (or the burning feather, though I doubt it'll look good that small) 2-5: pips 6: a suitably demonic-looking *numeral* So if you get three crosses, you know you rolled a 111. And the 666, well, there will be NO doubt that something bad has just happened. Further, the iconography isn't so IN-specific that other gamers won't pick these up for the coolness factor. And hey, if they REALLY like the dice, maybe they'll look into the game as well . . . - -- Andrew Hackard /\ "My money and my Promotional Writer /()\ [CENSORED] go to Steve Jackson Games / \ Illuminati University" andrew@sjgames.com /______\ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 11:42:52 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Some Advice Please At 18:33 -0400 5/20/00, mink wrote: >1) can an Etherial go in to heaven or hell? Certainly not on their own, in canon. >2) if god was just a Ether that found how to use the symphony/celestial >realm, then would it be possible for an Ether to find how to use a new realm >of existance? It's certainly plausible, by CDaU, but I doubt anything like this will appear in canon. Almost certainly up to the GM -- it's fairly explicitly not *forbidden* by the meta-canon that the "God is a really big Ethereal" theory cannot be ruled forbidden by current or future canon. >3) has any one tred to run a game that started in the 'dark ages' then >brought it forward by a few centuries each installment? It's been discussed, but I don't know that anyone has done it. > perhaps SJG could do an 'eras book' (liber tempus >or liber aevern), it would be a great boost for the players who could then >decied which era the charecter was created in and that they may have >affected in some way or another. There's been a lot of interest in a "In Nomine Historical" book; hopefully this will become a real project some day. What you're suggesting would probably be covered fairly well by that. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 11:49:42 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Some Advice Please At 19:26 -0400 5/21/00, Omentide wrote: >>They don't tend to be the Celestials who get assigned to develop Roles, or >>sit in one place for three centuries doing not much of anything, or end up >>as one of the cogs in the overall organizations. >> >>That being said, I tend to use celestial middle-management in my games, >>with the Top Level being involved only when necessary. (Laurence being >>*busy,* you see.) > >That's the point. PC's can be as favoured as the basic game suggests, but >my feeling is that summoning a superior every time you need a bit of advice >is not a good way to STAY favoured. Better they have mentors, or >supporters or whatever in middle management to fulfil day to day >requirements of that nature. That's also what I've done. I think this may actually be more common than the original "canon" notion of hot-shot independent Servitors answering to no one but their Superior. I'm not sure exactly why it was set up this way in the main book -- it's one of a number of peculiarities in the PC setup. (It may have been done to avoid having to give info on Superior organizations in the main book, now that I think of it, simplifying life for both the writer and the GM in some ways.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 12:00:26 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> How many angels ya figure their are? At 17:57 -0400 5/18/00, Charles Phipps wrote: >In Heaven, Hell, and on Earth what do you >think the total are of superiors/minions/like? Lots. Seriously, a few dozen Superiors (with only the main-book ones as "major" Superiors) on each side. In my campaign, I figure about 1 celestial on earth per 10,000 humans, there are probably somewhere between 3 and 10 times that number in the celestial realms. (The majority of which will be celestial spirits; the number of "fledged" celestials is probably closer to one or two times that; with demons probably being more commonly stuck in Hell than angels are in Heaven.) BTW, please don't send MIME/HTML/other weird non-plaintext rubbish to the list. (See the message you got when you subscribed.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 12:05:30 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Age and Words At 17:55 -0400 5/18/00, Charles Phipps wrote: >Out of curiousity how old do you allow your players to begin as angels..... I'd allow pretty much anything, though I'd restrict the character to the usual rules on character creation (more or less): 9 Forces, etc. >Which brings me to my next question-do you allow players to begin with words? No, and I'm not likely to ever do that, except maybe in a one-shot. For one thing, Word-bound are so focused on their Word that they're not good "team players". Unless the other PCs were assigned to the Word-bound, it would be difficult to make a group of PCs work well with one or more Word-bound included, I think. Or at least the game would operate on an entirely different level. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 12:05:07 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> How many angels ya figure their are? In Nomine uses the book of Revelation for the statistic that it was one-third of the Host that fell, so we might as well use the same source for an estimate of the angelic population. As Walter said: Lots. In the opening vision of the Heavenly Court, John sees "myriads of myriads" of angels, circling the Throne and singing. A myriad is 10,000, so a lower bound for the angelic population is several hundred million. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 12:20:47 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Dice At 17:01 -0400 5/19/00, Perry Lloyd wrote: >You know, if you *really* wanna cut cuts, only include four dice in the set. > >Two infernal, two angelic. The Check Die could just be a die from the >opposite team. I like that idea. On the other hand, I assume having dice of different colors is easier than dice with different symbols. The former only requires different dyes in the plastic being cast, which should be easy. Changing the symbols requires cutting new molds (I assume), which I would expect to be a *lot* more work. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 12:20:38 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Humans with Words Mary wrote: > Alright, I'm a little slow. What are the (possibly grevious) canon > implications of a human getting a word? As has been pointed out, humans with Words is non-canon, Lilith being a deliberately mysterious exception. If you wanted to go beyond canon and do it, I'd recommend doing them as Patron Saints -- very powerful Word-bound humans who have died at least once. It is a major part of the flavor of IN that humans and celestials are very different kinds of beings. Celestials are, on the whole, really much simpler. Think of a human who is in perfect health, perfectly rested, not at all hungry or thirsty, and, at the moment, strongly focused on their job. That's what most celestials are like ALL THE TIME. They don't have a lot of other states equivalent to kicking back and relaxing or pursuing alternate interests. Word-bound are like that, only much worse. The more human-like bands and choirs are not so much like that, but still... So, if you hand out Words to human souls, you should decide beforehand whether that means that humans handle Words very differently from celestials, or that getting a Word makes a human substantially less human. Consider the well-known case of St. Nicholas, patron saint of children, bakers, sailors, and pawnbrokers, and de facto patron saint of Christmas. First of all, you'll notice that he's got a lot of patronages scattered all over. These are based on the legend of the historical St. Nichoals, who, like any other historical person, was interested in lots of different things and had lots of unrelated adventures happen to him. If he gets Word-bound, then either he has to pick only one of those or he handles Words very, very differently from the way an angel would. If he's more loosely coupled to his Word(s), you can have situations like the comical ones depicting Santa the day after Christmas, jetting off to Bermuda for his vacation. If he's more tightly coupled to his Word (singular), he NEVER takes a vacation, wouldn't WANT a vacation, would be seriously distressed at being kept AWAY from his work, and in general would be a monomaniacal workaholic. And, to that degree, less human. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 13:01:03 -0400 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> Age and Words Walter Milliken wrote: > For one thing, Word-bound are so focused on their Word that they're not > good "team players". Unless the other PCs were assigned to the Word-bound, > it would be difficult to make a group of PCs work well with one or more > Word-bound included, I think. Or at least the game would operate on an > entirely different level. That said, gaining a Word is a very appropriate goal for a PC after that game starts. They still have to work with the team so that their Superior doesn't get annoyed at them (annoyed Superiors hardly every sponsor one for a Word, you see...) but it adds an additional layer of complexity to the character and their motivations. In fact, one of my current characters is vying for the Word of Roses (she's a Malakite of Flowers... I can send you the justification for her claim, if you are interested.) - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 12:27:17 -0500 From: Andrew Hackard Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Dice >I like that idea. On the other hand, I assume having dice of different >colors is easier than dice with different symbols. The former only requires >different dyes in the plastic being cast, which should be easy. Changing >the symbols requires cutting new molds (I assume), which I would expect to >be a *lot* more work. Based on my recent discussions with our production manager, I think you're right. Apparently Steve has floated the idea, with infernal dice being red and gold, and angelic dice being blue and white. The 1 face would be the cross, and the 6 would be a serpent curled into a numeral 6. Don't know whether the other faces would be numerals or pips. Best estimate, btw, is that these dice would be "expensive." - -- Andrew Hackard /\ "My money and my Promotional Writer /()\ [CENSORED] go to Steve Jackson Games / \ Illuminati University" andrew@sjgames.com /______\ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:33:21 -0700 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: IN> Words for all! Someone, I forget who, suggest a campaign where every Celestial had a Word. Be aware that we're taking a big left turn off the road of canon here. I think to change that unless you wanted a total farce(rather than a comedy) you would need to lessen the degree of devotion to a Word. Make a relationship with a Word be like a relationship with a person. Yes, your current SO is whiny and annoying at times, but at least you aren't alone. And in a way, you do still love them. Or at least like them. Somewhat. Does it stop you from dreaming about someone famous? No. So the Angel of the First Minute of the Third Hour of Tuesday may really adore that time of day but still yearn for something better. And probably feel guilty about it...but do it anyway. Especially if they are a PC. It's most suitable for funny(Funny?) game that bears more resemblance to Good Omens than to most of the current IN setting. Perhaps, in that setting, getting away from having a Word at all is a fond dream of many, especially demons... Sean ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 12:49:26 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Words for all! Sean McCarthy wrote: > > Someone, I forget who, suggest a campaign where every Celestial had a> Word. Be aware that we're taking a big left turn off the road of canon here. If you really wanted to run a more mythic sort of campaign where the only celestials on Earth are major powers (i.e., Worded), I'd recommend Nobilis more than In Nomine, actually. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 13:09:10 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Dice From: "Andrew Hackard" > > Based on my recent discussions with our production manager, I think you're > right. Apparently Steve has floated the idea, with infernal dice being red > and gold, and angelic dice being blue and white. The 1 face would be the > cross, and the 6 would be a serpent curled into a numeral 6. Don't know > whether the other faces would be numerals or pips. I'd vote for pips, if only to make the 1s and 6s that much more special. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 14:22:49 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Words for all! At 12:49 PM -0500 5/22/00, David Edelstein wrote: >Sean McCarthy wrote: > > > > Someone, I forget who, suggest a campaign where every >Celestial had a> Word. Be aware that we're taking a big left turn >off the road of canon here. > > >If you really wanted to run a more mythic sort of campaign where the >only celestials on Earth are major powers (i.e., Worded), I'd recommend >Nobilis more than In Nomine, actually. Does anyone actively sell or support Nobilis? I developed an interest in learning more about it but can't find it. The web site that everyone points to doesn't mention it any more. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1639 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.