From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri May 26 00:32:23 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA04066 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 00:32:23 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id AAA00102 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 26 May 2000 00:29:43 -0500 Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 00:29:43 -0500 Message-Id: <200005260529.AAA00102@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1643 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, May 26 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1643 In this digest: Re: IN> Yawhew the Celestial/Etheral Re: IN> Minor Superior opinions IN> Seraphs and the Truth Re: IN> Yawhew the Celestial/Etheral Re: IN> Minor Superior opinions RE: IN> Minor Superior opinions Re: IN> Humans and words Re: IN> Yawhew the Celestial/Etheral Re: IN> Seraphs and the Truth IN> Malakite Angel of Roses Re: IN> Age and Words (semi-long) Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! Re: IN> Age and Words (semi-long) Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! Re: IN> Age and Words (semi-long) Re: IN> Question - Vessels & death Re: IN> Age and Words (semi-long) Re: IN> Some Advice Please Re: IN> Age and Words (semi-long) Re: IN> Age and Words (semi-long) RE: IN> Some Advice Please RE: IN> Losing Superiors Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! Re: IN> Pentagrams (was: In Nomine Dice) IN> Quick and Fun NPCs Re: Patron Saintds ( was Re: IN> Words for Humans. ) RE: IN> Losing Superiors ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 00:20:38 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Yawhew the Celestial/Etheral At 19:27 -0400 5/24/00, Omentide wrote: >I guess, if a Seraph was in a position where it had to be around a sincere >Atheist (or a very sincere ethereal soldier who subscribed to the Yahweh is >a jumped up ethereal theory) it would try to avoid using its resonance on >that person, if the results disturbed it. > >I'm not sure how far this would disturb a Seraph, though. After all, what >is a Seraph who has come to believe that only his own, personal truth is >valid? (My own answer to that question would be 'A Balseraph'). But a Seraph who believes in the Truth is just fine. Athiests, in IN, are just plain *wrong*. Yes, they believe in their viewpoint, and think it's the truth, but a Seraph with a CD 6 will know that that's different from the Truth. Things are a little fuzzier with someone with the God=ethereal viewpoint. A GM could play it such that a Seraph, with a CD 6, gets the Truth that God is God, not an ethereal. (And an ethereal would simply say that God has used his powers to make Seraphim get that result, since all they're doing is tapping into Him.) Or the GM could simply put this in the class of "ineffable Truths" that surround the nature of God, in which case the Seraph with a CD 6 gets the Truth that "God's nature is ineffable" and nothing more. I like the notion that Seraphim sometimes get disturbing Truths; this is especially entertaining when thinking about Dominic; as a Superior, he can probably get past the "Superior cloaking" that blocks resonances, at least to some extent. This gives him a certain amount of leeway in tolerating things from other Superiors that he, personally, doesn't like - -- he gets the Truth that they're doing something valuable, even if he doesn't like it. Which probably annoys him a great deal.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 00:26:29 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Minor Superior opinions >> You can now find (need I say it? unofficial) minor Superior >> opinions at >> http://www.amadan.org/Innomine/Minor-opinions.html > >Thank you, David... these are very useful. Seconded. Nice work. You could lose the M.C. Escher background on the demon opinions, though; it makes them unnecessarily hard to read. >I wish SJG would acknowledge >the minor superiors more; they're definitely of use in any campaign. Firm agreement! I don't want to open the door to dozens of them, but the ones we already have could get a little more air time. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 00:53:24 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Seraphs and the Truth David wrote: >Not really. A sincere atheist would just register with a Seraph as "He >really, really believes that God doesn't exist." And you don't think the average Seraph isn't disturbed by this? >I guess, if a Seraph was in a position where it had to be around a sincere >Atheist (or a very sincere ethereal soldier who subscribed to the Yahweh is >a jumped up ethereal theory) it would try to avoid using its resonance on >that person, if the results disturbed it. >I'm not sure how far this would disturb a Seraph, though. After all, what >is a Seraph who has come to believe that only his own, personal truth is >valid? (My own answer to that question would be 'A Balseraph'). Well as one beutifully written up Pyramid article was (words that no one in Heaven wants) able to concisley sumarize I have no doubt in my mind that alot of serpahs believe that most things have "equal truth" to them or the "truth" lies somewhere in the Middle...however it seems to be that a Seraph is a figure that would constantly be seeking "higher" and higher truths and enlightment for both himself and others.... Ergo why they are the highest Choir of Angels. No doubt why Dominic is so proud of his job...he's arbitrating what is the truth and guiding the rest of the Celestials from following misinterpretations of God's word. Twistations of that. Being a Seraph he has to view this as a truly awesome responsibility that strikes at the core of every Seraphim's being. Perhaps his word is getting to him as he must judge every little nuance of every Celestial's actions to make sure they are following the clear and definate "true" path.... Indeed it's my Seraph Isaiah's greatest trouble with Dominic (he's been tried three times for heresay in Heaven but always came off scott free) in that Isaiah truly believes that for each mortal and Celestial sometimes it's necessary for sin and death etc. to exist because otherwise a person would not be able to arrive at the truth due to the impact of sin in their lives. I imagine of all the Seraphim and semantics and the like...The Seraphs are the most tormented over for it implies a very real need for truth in their lives. Balseraphs on the other hand in my mind are Seraphim who have more or less ditched the idea that they have any further need to look for truth, thus they become static and fall. Ironically I think the main reason Dominic is so bloody uptight is that he is aware that ultimately he doesn't have the entirety of God's truth like Yves does so he's wracked with self guilt and a desire to do the right thing while realizing he doesn't have all the answers....yet he still has to judge. If Dominic believed that in the end "I am the truth and I am the way"....no doubt he would fall immediately and become...well...remain actually "Judgement" (which is why in my game-Yves becomming Dissonat and in danger of falling is scaring the hell out of him) - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 22:10:36 PDT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Yawhew the Celestial/Etheral >From: David Edelstein >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > >Not really. A sincere atheist would just register with a Seraph as "He >really, really believes that God doesn't exist." > Which is probably as upsetting for them as listening to demons spout their propaganda. jo ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 22:17:36 PDT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Minor Superior opinions I really don't mind, but next time .. ask permission, yeah? jo ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 16:41:25 +1000 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: RE: IN> Minor Superior opinions David wrote: You can now find (need I say it? unofficial) minor Superior > opinions at > http://www.amadan.org/Innomine/Minor-opinions.html Just a small error. Apparently Fleurity has an opinion about himself (the second Fleurity needs to be changed to Alaemon). Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 04:03:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "O. S. Kerr" Subject: Re: IN> Humans and words > > George, Saint in service to David, liason between two > > Servitors of National Identity (England and Greece). > > Formerly a Saint of Uriel during the Purification Crusade. > > Nice guy George. Not too popular with Gabrielle though. Gabby? She's okay with him. Jordi, on the other hand... he *liked* the dragons... O. ===== ** Lead Playtester for Storyteller: The Colon ** ** I minored in behavioral psychology. Tragic irony and human suffering are just hobbies. ** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 08:55:44 -0400 From: neelk@cswcasa.com Subject: Re: IN> Yawhew the Celestial/Etheral Charles Phipps wrote: > >> Depends very much on the flavour of the particular campaign. After >> all, it's possible the Ethereals are not 'lying' when they say God >> is an ethereal but that they actually believe this to be true. >> Similarly, Celestials are not 'lying' when they say God is not (and >> never was) an ethereal but are stating their own firmly held belief >> on the matter. > > Yes which no doubt righteously cheesed off every Seraphim they > happened to talk to. Like Balseraphs I bet the Seraphim hate to > have anything register as true that contradicts what they "know" is > true. Ergo I doubt you were see many Seraphim around sincere > Atheists and people who believe God is evil. It would force them to > come face to face with the fact something is very wrong with "truth" > in the symphony and a real need is not being met. Heh. IMC, a seraph invoking its resonance on an atheist might gotten a high check digit like so: "Neel is being honest about his unbelief in God. The reason he doesn't believe is because he has never witnessed any supernatural events of any kind, and thus sees no reason to believe in the reality of any supernatural power. He does not know the actual truth, which is that the Lord of Hosts -- praise be unto Him! -- has watched him every instant of his life and an hour before." - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 08:38:03 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Seraphs and the Truth Charles Phipps wrote: > >Not really. A sincere atheist would just register with a Seraph as "He> >really, really believes that God doesn't exist." > > And you don't think the average Seraph isn't disturbed by this? No more than he's disturbed by a lot of things humans think and do. - -David ------------------------------ Date: 25 May 2000 17:47:54 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: IN> Malakite Angel of Roses On Mon, 22 May 2000 13:01:03 -0400 John Karakash wrote: > In fact, one of my current characters is vying for >the Word of Roses (she's a Malakite of Flowers... I can send >you the justification for her claim, if you are interested.) sure, i'm interested. it's still on topic, right? so sure! -=|horsefly|=- God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh. ------------------------------ Date: 25 May 2000 18:14:10 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> Age and Words (semi-long) On Mon, 22 May 2000 10:59:04 -0400 John Karakash wrote: >> At 5:55 PM -0400 05/18/00, Charles Phipps wrote: >> > Out of curiousity how old do you allow your players to begin as angels[?] > I don't mind if players start out very old, as long >as they have a good reason why they aren't super-tough or >one of the 'movers and shakers' of the IN universe. > I'm currently playing a character who was born before >the Fall but was in Trauma for a long, LONG time. =) Plus >Malakim occasionally end up losing Forces. Occupational hazard aren't Malakim immune to Trauma? or is that a different character from the one who's since lost Forces (from the way i read your post, it doesn't sound like it). is this a home-brew thing about Malakim vulnerability to Trauma like everyone else? -=|horsefly|=- Happiness is a laser designator and a friend in the artillery battalion. --Clayton A. Oliver ------------------------------ Date: 25 May 2000 18:31:38 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! On Mon, 22 May 2000 10:22:53 -0500 Andrew Hackard wrote: [snip] >Here's my proposal; slag it at will. > >Dice will be sold in sets of three. The angelic set will have two white >dice with red printing and one red die with gold printing; the infernal set >will have two black dice with red printing and one red die with gold >printing. i'd prefer blue for the angelic dice, as the color contrast of whatever numeral or pip shows up better than with white. red and gold, in particular i find, get lost in the wash of white. >All the dice will have the same faces. These will be: > >1: the IN cross (or the burning feather, though I doubt it'll look > good that small) you're right: i've just downloaded the burning feather image from the In Nomine homepage and adjusted the size of it to 1"x1". it's clear but squat. however, i doubt the dice will be an inch cubed, so let me try .5"x.5"... hmm, still squat, but now tiny... oh well. this reinforces my desire for a blue angelic dice, though: on a black field, the burning feather is spectacular, but on a scale this small, it would be almost indistinguishable from the white of the actual die. sky or navy blue would be equally good. >2-5: pips i'm one of those folks who's happy with pips. >6: a suitably demonic-looking *numeral* how does one make a numeral look demonic? a balseraph curled into a "six" looks more silly than demonic, and at .5"x.5" (if the scale is even that large), it would be just as indistinguishable as the burning feather. >So if you get three crosses, you know you rolled a 111. And the 666, well, >there will be NO doubt that something bad has just happened. good luck. freaking the mundanes is bad here, but not doing so will probably make the dice virtually as generic as any others. -=|horsefly|=- God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 14:51:39 -0400 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> Age and Words (semi-long) - -=|horsefly|=- wrote: > > I'm currently playing a character who was born before > >the Fall but was in Trauma for a long, LONG time. =) Plus > >Malakim occasionally end up losing Forces. Occupational hazard > aren't Malakim immune to Trauma? or is that a different character from the one who's since lost Forces (from the way i read > your post, it doesn't sound like it). is this a home-brew thing about > Malakim vulnerability to Trauma like everyone else? She was in Trauma _before_ she became a Malakite. =) - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: 25 May 2000 19:46:54 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! On Mon, 22 May 2000 19:26:56 -0400 Walter Milliken wrote: >At 11:22 -0400 5/22/00, Andrew Hackard wrote: >>All the dice will have the same faces. These will be: >>1: the IN cross (or the burning feather, though I doubt it'll look >> good that small) >>2-5: pips >I'd be *very* tempted to use Skreetch Caps numerals, rather than pips. >Lots of dice have pips, how many dice have funky font numerals? I'd >expect that would have some effect on sales to non-INers, just for the >coolness factor. ooh, y'know, Skreetch Caps would be great numerals to use, and would have a definite In Nomine feel to the dice, but you'd need an icon for the six. or an iconographed 6. [snip] >Another notion: it may be relatively easy to "layer" colors into a die, >sort of like a parfait. Since the "1" and "6" faces are opposite, you that's a neat idea. i like it, and i hope it's feasible (read: cost-efficient) enough to work. -=|horsefly|=- "It was a different time: a time of blood and guns and killings.... It was a time when killers needed saints, for so much of God's good work was being done." --SAINT OF KILLERS #4, Garth Ennis ------------------------------ Date: 25 May 2000 20:35:20 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> Age and Words (semi-long) On Thu, 25 May 2000 14:51:39 -0400 John Karakash wrote: >-=|horsefly|=- wrote: >> > I'm currently playing a character who was born before >> >the Fall but was in Trauma for a long, LONG time. =) Plus >> >Malakim occasionally end up losing Forces. Occupational hazard >> aren't Malakim immune to Trauma? or is that a >>different character from the one who's >> since lost Forces (from >>the way i read your post, it doesn't sound like it). is this a >>home-brew thing about Malakim vulnerability to Trauma like everyone else? > She was in Trauma _before_ she became a Malakite. =) errr, a home-brew thing about any choir able to go blackwing...? sorry, i'm still not clear here. from your grin, i'd say that's deliberate. "Okay, so far Gherbod Fleming has written two character with Humanity 6. One has a Rogue Nature, the other an Idealist Nature. One seems like a generally nice person, except for her slight problem with frenzy which results in her killing people; the other seems like a hypocritical, selfish monster." --Kish Moore ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 21:39:54 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> Question - Vessels & death From: Dave Taylor > for an additional 1/4 vessel cost, it does the above, but in doing so > inflicts (Vessel Level)D6 body hits on anyone with Corp Forces feet. > Anyone who's seen UK Channel 4's Ultraviolet will understand. heh. suddenly i'm envisioning warehouses on the docks... liam ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 16:44:42 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Age and Words (semi-long) - -=|horsefly|=- wrote: >> She was in Trauma _before_ she became a Malakite. =) > errr, a home-brew thing about any choir able to go blackwing...? Maybe she went through Trauma before the Fall. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 21:52:26 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> Some Advice Please From: mink > 3) has any one tred to run a game that started in the 'dark ages' then > brought it forward by a few centuries each installment? well, i *am* playing in the transylvania chronicles in a vampire game... anyway, i did ask the list for advice on running a dark ages campaign a while back. i wanted to run a game that would start a few years before the purity crusade and lead up to charlemagne's coronation. the main differences superiors-wise as i saw them were; uriel and raphael are still around and active in heavenly politics; jean is a minor AA, pretty much jean's sidekick; eli is still active in heaven; gabriel has just recently left heaven and has not returned since, her servitors are in disarray and hounded by dominic; zadkiel is more of a major AA; marc is probably a minor AA; laurence isn't an AA, just uriel's right hand. meawhile, in hell; haagenti doesn't exist, and the DPs of sloth and oblivion are still active (well, maybe not active in sloth's case); the old DP of rapine is still around as valefor hasn't turned up yet; nybbas is a nobody (if existant); vapula isn't a DP, just a wordbound. setting-wise, ethereals have far more of a presence in the corporeal realm. "mythical" creatures like dragons and unicorns are in fact ethereal beasties freely wandering the earth's surface. obviously this was getting on uriel's goat and the idea of a crusade is brewing in his brain... in the end it was bit of a nonstarter as i haven't been able to run my regular IN campaign in ages, let alone some dodgy historical variant. sigh. liam ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 16:55:56 -0400 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> Age and Words (semi-long) - -=|horsefly|=- wrote: > > She was in Trauma _before_ she became a Malakite. =) > errr, a home-brew thing about any choir able to go blackwing...? > sorry, i'm still not clear here. from your grin, i'd say that's deliberate. Relievers, m'boy. Relievers are allowed to become Malakim when they fledge. But, you may cry, relievers can't go into trauma! Well, it was an odd situation... y'know, having a bunch of demons in Heaven trying to upset the heavenly order. One had a nasty poison bite that served the same purpose. - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: 25 May 2000 21:49:17 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> Age and Words (semi-long) On Thu, 25 May 2000 16:55:56 -0400 John Karakash wrote: > Relievers, m'boy. Relievers are allowed to become >Malakim when they fledge. > But, you may cry, relievers can't go into trauma! >Well, it was an odd situation... y'know, having a bunch of >demons in Heaven trying to upset the heavenly order. One >had a nasty poison bite that served the same purpose. your emails came in out of order. i've now read the character write-up, so i understand. i don't have a problem with relievers in Trauma, honestly, whether canon allows it or not, partly because i was unaware of the canon ruling; at this point i'm willing to reject that rule in favor of this possibility. i don't mind your specific rationale, either :) "Okay, so far Gherbod Fleming has written two character with Humanity 6. One has a Rogue Nature, the other an Idealist Nature. One seems like a generally nice person, except for her slight problem with frenzy which results in her killing people; the other seems like a hypocritical, selfish monster." --Kish Moore ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 08:21:26 +1000 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: RE: IN> Some Advice Please Liam wrote: jean is > a minor AA, pretty much jean's sidekick; Jean is his own sidekick?!? I thought he was Elohite, not Kyriotate ;) Leath (Servitor of Kobal). ------------------------------ Date: 25 May 2000 23:04:22 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: RE: IN> Losing Superiors On Mon, 22 May 2000 15:52:17 +1000 Leath Sheales wrote: [snip] >The demons of Fire will have a great time to begin, and will revel in >destruction as L.A. suddenly burns to the ground, flocking there like flies >to faeces. That is, until they learn that Gabriel and David have decided to >destroy L.A. as an example to all demonkind and wicked humans. By the time >Gabriel's finished, demons of Fire will be a rare breed indeed. > >All of which leads me nicely into Armageddon. yes, Yes, YES! it's about time Gabriel meted out justice to that former Servitor of her, and for his own stupidity, he got what he deserved. i'm happy to hear all of that, including the roasting of Los Angeles (does this tie in with your version of Fall of the Malakim?). will Gabriel be recovering any of her lost sanity, or will Armageddon effectively end your game? -=|horsefly|=- "It was a different time: a time of blood and guns and killings.... It was a time when killers needed saints, for so much of God's good work was being done." --SAINT OF KILLERS #4, Garth Ennis ------------------------------ Date: 25 May 2000 23:48:22 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! On Tue, 23 May 2000 13:32:41 -0500 Uncle Wolf wrote in response to Andrew Hackard: i like your dice ideas, Tom. i like 'em a lot. maybe do the 2-5 in Skreetch Caps for the appropriate In Nomine look&feel and they'd come out pretty groovy =) >Off Topic comment: In traditional Christian lore, Michael is portrayed >as a sword-wielder -- does Laurence ever get ticked that, even when he >does the work, Michael gets the credit? hmm, good question. that brings up something i've been itching to write up something abou the Old Warhorse that's going to be heavily abbreviated here since i haven't yet worked through ALL the details yet. IMC, Michael is also referred to as The Destroyer of the Infernal Hoarde (which often gets shortened to The Destroyer, and inevitably confuses demons, who think someone is talking about a revered Calabite--nothing could be further from the Truth). in essence, Michael gains not only Essence for demons he kills, not only those his Servitors kill, not only those the entire Host of Heaven kills (AND all of Heaven's soldiers!), but he also gains *Forces* from every demon who is soul-killed but not directly and immediately harnessed by another Superior. as an example, a Malakite of Fire kills a demon with fire and picks up a point of Essense, but that demon, when it wakes from Trauma, will find itself entirely empty of Essence--any that it had when the Malakite killed it have gone to the Archangel of War. second example: a 10-Force demon in celestial combat is destroyed; these ten Forces ascend to the Groves, are purified by the Light of Heaven, and come into Michael's personal possession, added to the Archangel himself. third and final example: a demon displeases its Prince so severely that the Demon Prince Force-Strips its Servitor to destruction. in this controlled fashion, the Forces stay within the perview of the De! mon Prince in question. i find this makes Michael immensely, appropriately powerful, as well as terrifying to demons, what with the rumors that circulate Hades (Baal has been known to publicly and immediately Force-Strip any of his Servitors referring to Michael as The Destroyer or contemplating the metaphysics of how the Archangel of War pulls off this trick. Vapula wonders himself quietly and out of earshot of Hell's Commander in Chief). so to answer your question, Laurence may not be annoyed about the credit of a kill among the general consensus of humanity, but the loss of Essense irks him a tad . of course, what in the Lord's Name do you say to the Firstborn about that...? -=|horsefly|=- "It was a different time: a time of blood and guns and killings.... It was a time when killers needed saints, for so much of God's good work was being done." --SAINT OF KILLERS #4, Garth Ennis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 18:57:25 -0500 From: "Kiara S. Legner" Subject: Re: IN> Pentagrams (was: In Nomine Dice) >>Um, pardon me, but in defense of Lauurent here:<< This is a matter of opinions. If you feel it necessary, consider yourself pardoned. >>IIRC, the inverted pentacle... I have no intention of discussing the origins of the symbol, its possible or probable historic uses, or previous relationship to various religions, cults, and rock groups. >>So if you want to say the unholy and holy symbols have *nothing* to do with >>a game about Angels/Demons, God/Lucifer, ummmm . . .<< That, my friend, has nothing to do with my original point. The point was that the pentagram is not a standard IN symbol. And there are plenty of standard IN symbols available. So I didn't - and still don't - see the point to making IN specific dice with non-IN symbology. >>AND the pentagram is not a common symbol used in the game (if at all, actually). << Which is what I originally said. >> But it doesn't have NOTHING to do with In Nomine. Neither would Buddha, Jesus, the Ying/Yang, or other relgious symbols and people.<< All religious symbols can be worked into the game if the GM so chooses. That doesn't mean they make good representations for IN specific dice. My point was, and still is, that IN specific dice should be IN specific as well as "looking cool", to requote Laurent. Regards, Ki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 20:01:24 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Quick and Fun NPCs Just some fun ideas to share with you all-maybe give a story idea or two. Feel free to add your own. Angelic: Huroun-Archangel of Oceans-Master of the Waters solely since the time of Uriel's crusade he is torn by his feelings of guilt in the destruction of Neptune and other ancient etherials....he indeed is ignoring the difficulties of his waters now. Innocent the Third-Saint-Being a pope was supposed to be a good thing but after ascending he found out just exactly how wrong he was about Islam and the holy land situation. Quite possibly (After Dominic) the most unpopular man in Heaven he's constantly scheming to get back down to Earth to "make things right". Johnathan-Angel of Cleanliness-Quite possibly the person most happy to see Sloth go when Haagenti took over Johnathan is the man who inspired the flush toilet, brooms, and the vacuum (made in Haagenti's honor rumor has). A servant of Eli and David he is described as rather...anal retentive by his fellow angels. Vincent-Angel of Chance-Appearing as a slick man in a black coat Vincent is a servant of Janus and the man who in a dozen bad stories sweeps into a depressed area-beats the local gamblers at their own game and distributes the money to the needy. A pool shark by preference he recieved the word of all gambling when it was discovered a dire need to counteract the dangers of gambling in the fifties. He's since taken on some "apprentices" in card playing and slot machines to help him. Elgos-Angel of Daycare-As a Malakim warrior one wonders exactly how he got stuck in the position of serving as Christopher's counsel for safe child services for the next 950 years. Well it basically involved a deep cover operation...your "let God sort them out" and some holy bullets. Your superiors decided you needed some less "stressful" work. Ergo this nonthreatening trouble...for now. Demonic: Deliah-Demon Prince of Hate-Lucifer's most devoted follower and worst enemy she inspired all bigotries and destructions including of self. Samael-Demon Lord of Genocide-A Seraph from before the Fall his word is perhaps one of the most horrofic but because of his cautious nature he has shared the credit for the destruction and murder of so many innocents that prevents him from being a prince (that and a desire to destroy Baal and take his place). He prepares something grand to finally achieve a princedom. Minos-Servitor of Asmodeus-Formerly a King in Crete this Balseraph was reknowned for his skill in judgement that was believed by all...but merely enriched the wicked and destroyed the weak. He serves as Asmodeus's wandering judge for the most part. Mesphito-Demon "Prince" of Trickery-An amazingly powerful worded mortal he's also one of the largest figures in hell to find. An Impudite Mesphito bears no judge against humanity and frankly spends quite a large ammount of his time on Earth...how he manages that seems to be his biggest trick. Etheral: Bridget-The Celtic goddess...now a waitress...but not just any waitress. Belenus survived somehow down in this area and if you can avoid the local hit squads of both angels and demons for a long time you can recover your brother and then it's off to glory again....you just wish you could figure out why he's in this terrible area and why he hasn't contacted you in so long. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: 26 May 2000 02:13:19 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: Patron Saintds ( was Re: IN> Words for Humans. ) On Wed, 24 May 2000 11:26:50 -0500 Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Emily Dresner wrote: >And, as I think I mentioned recently, St. Nicholas (Santa Claus) >is patron of children, sailors, and pawnbrokers, among others. "among others" including brides. there is no Patron Saint of Husbands ;) -=|horsefly|=- Happiness is a laser designator and a friend in the artillery battalion. --Clayton A. Oliver ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 15:31:23 +1000 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: RE: IN> Losing Superiors horsefly wrote: yes, > Yes, YES! it's > about time Gabriel meted out justice to that former Servitor of > her, and for > his own stupidity, he got what he deserved. i'm happy to hear > all of that, > including the roasting of Los Angeles (does this tie in with your > version of > Fall of the Malakim?). will Gabriel be recovering any of her lost sanity, > or will Armageddon effectively end your game? Actually, Gabriel has nothing to do with Belial's disappearance. Eli reveals (IMG) one of his plans. He 'does something' to Belial. The first Gabriel finds out about it is when the infernal pressure in her skull suddenly eases while she is on a wild goose chase that Eli sent her on in the Corporeal realm. Free of his presence, she is able to exercise the destructive powers of her Word for the first time in millenia. She contacts David and blows up LA (watch the movie "Volcano" to get an image of what happens, but with no happy ending for the city). The only people with an idea of what is to come are servitors of Stone and Fire who are given lists of people and told to 'relocate' them. Everyone else in the city is toast. The final fate of Belial is something that will remain unknown for a while... This does tie into my FotM scenario. IMG the Malakim never undergo this adventure, but the actions of one Malakite (one of the chief PCs) are severely dragging down the choir as a whole. The torching of LA leads into the first trumpet, leading into Armageddon (I'll be changing the events of each other trumpet as well). Gabriel will recover some of her sanity, but it will be replaced with Divine Vengeance, making her much scarier and more deadly (and a lot less forgiving). When confronted by Dominic for her trial she will stare at him before saying "Here is the truth of what I am" and lowering all her symphonic shields. The Truth of God's plans for Gabriel will burn into Dominic's being with Divine might, destroying some of his eyes permanently. After this scene (which most of Heaven will witness) Dominic will fall to the ground weeping. Gabriel turns and walks away to her volcano, and nothing will be said of her trial ever again. Interestigly enough, she and Dominic will become Associated after this point. Armageddon will not progress to the bitter end (the destruction of pretty much everything) because of a company called Off-Topic. They are led by a very clever, very well informed group of symphonically aware humans. These humans know that both angels and demons roam the earth and they're sick to death of the meddling of both sides. They have discovered that disturbance can be used for their benefit, and design resonating towers across the earth that enhance disturbance, meaning that every celestial disturbance inflicts damage on the perpetrator as well as making noise. The tides of The War shift dramatically as Roles become almost a necessity and humans wake up and become a force against the 'intruders', creating a powerful force against both Angels and Demons. This is further frustrated by the fact that the humans are fully aware that some of their enemies are angels serving Heaven but decide that God's initial decree to leave humans alone was the correct choice. Angels are further frustrated that many of the soldiers still go straight to Heaven when they die, fighting for their cause, and Divine Decree prevents any action from being taken against them. The players will be given the choice at this point of playing in the (vastly altered) world or starting again in a different time period with new characters. Anyway, just an idea of where my campaign is going. Leath. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1643 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.