From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat May 27 00:51:08 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA01636 for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 00:51:08 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id AAA31728 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 27 May 2000 00:49:39 -0500 Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 00:49:39 -0500 Message-Id: <200005270549.AAA31728@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1645 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, May 27 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1645 In this digest: Re: IN> Stupid Seraph Tricks Re: IN> Mythic creatures and Angels Re: IN> Forces RE: IN> Re: Celestial physics expertize required... Re: IN> LRP in England + Hot Fresh Art RE: IN> Stupid Seraph Tricks Re: IN> Stupid Seraph Tricks IN> In Nomine Live Action Roleplaying IN> The Limbo Bar and Grill Re: IN> Stupid Seraph Tricks Re: IN> Re: Celestial physics expertize required... Re: IN> The Limbo Bar and Grill Re: IN> Hot Fresh Art IN> Yawhew the Ethereal/Celestial Re: IN> LRP in England + Hot Fresh Art Re: IN> Re: Celestial physics expertize required... Re: IN> Re: Celestial physics expertize required... Re: IN> LRP in England + Hot Fresh Art Re: IN> Re: Celestial physics expertize required... Re: IN> Re: Celestial physics expertize required... IN> Resonating while Celestial Re: IN> Re: Celestial physics expertize required... Re: IN> LRP in England + Hot Fresh Art Re: IN> Resonating while Celestial Re: IN> Re: Celestial physics expertize required... Re: IN> LRP in England + Hot Fresh Art Re: IN> Resonating while Celestial Re: IN> Resonating while Celestial Re: IN> Resonating while Celestial Re: IN> Resonating while Celestial IN> Yawhew The Etherial/Celestial ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 15:20:38 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Stupid Seraph Tricks At 2:05 PM -0500 5/26/00, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Stephen M Gingell wrote: > > > Not that any sane Seraph would ever say this but what happens if > > a Seraph says... > > > > "This statement will immediately cause me dissonance." > > > > ;) > >Yeah, but a BALseraph might say it; they're not all that sane. Hm. > >If it didn't cause them dissonance, it would be false, and so >cause them dissonance. > >If it did cause them dissonance, it would appear that it would be >true and so would not cause them dissonance. > >However, I think they'd still get dissonance from it, just not >because of the statement's truth-value. There are many ways of >getting dissonance, after all; they may have simply discovered >a new one. More to the point -- I think a Balseraph's own personal symphony is so much under their control, they're more than capable of forcing it into dissonance as a normal part of their own resonance. In fact, if a Balseraph made that statement, I'd make them make a resonance roll against themselves, no resistance. If successful, they immediately get a point of dissonance. If failed, it fails -- they reject they've even heard themselves make that statement and they'd forget it ever happened. Someone then *proving* they made the statement (say, playing back a recording) would be dissonant to them because their private symphony would be proven false. So a Balseraph in the depths of despair can wail at how he's dissonant even if he's not, which in turn will cause him dissonance and pain. He wails he's a vicious liar, which is a true statement but contridicts his private symphony. More dissonance. And so on and so on until he's ripe for Redemption or a mass of discord. You know, I bet Elohim love manipulating Balseraphs into this. Well, love in a remote way, of course... - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 15:23:16 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Mythic creatures and Angels Charles Phipps wrote: > I'm wondering what would happen if an angel during Uriel's crusade > against the Ethereals decided to hide some unicorns? I'm kinduv > thinking about putting it in my character's background (Eli and > Novalis servitor)-what do you think would be the punishment by > Dominic for that? I like the idea of an underground angelic railroad for the better Ethereals. Eli and Novalis would certainlybe sympathetic, but their support would be as nothing compared to Blandine's, (who I think was the most ticked by Uriel) and Jordi might be on the list, too. I think that would all work against any severe punishment by Dominic -- both because Dominic would face resistance from the Archangels listed and because, before that, it would give Dominic pause, when considering just how wrong this act could be ... especially given the ambiguous nature of Uriel's departure. > (I figure it lasted til about the 14th century when he got the > South American gods) According to canon, Uriel was long gone by then, as were the Aztec gods. The worship being directed to the Aztec gods until the fall of their empire all went to the dead-letter office. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 14:26:05 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Forces From: "Whistling in the Dark" > > It's if Baal weakens Michael enough that > *Lucifer* can win that concerns Michael mostly... This is part of the background in a post-Revelations Cycle game I have in the works, as it happens... Prodigal Demon of Calling In To Technical Support Without The Product Nearby ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 13:05:50 -0700 From: "Robert Veneman-Hughes" Subject: RE: IN> Re: Celestial physics expertize required... > At this point, I can as well ask you guys for advice: I need > a Vapulan Tether in > Washington. > Canonically, the NSA Headquarters just outside the city (in Fort Meade, VA) is a Vapulan tether. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 16:09:37 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> LRP in England + Hot Fresh Art At 15:26 -0400 5/26/00, mink wrote: >Also, i found some great art work for I.N and other games in a site run by >Ruth i think, i can't remember her surname, but heres the addy: >www.tarnishedimages.com Ah, Ruth Thompson. As a matter of SJGames trivia, she was SJGames' Art Director about 10 years ago, and did a lot of artwork for several GURPS books. She hasn't done anything for IN, or any other SJGames product, in recent years, that I'm aware of -- I think her print sales were more lucrative. Her stuff often went to auction at Arisia (the big Boston SF con), though I haven't seen any there in the last couple years. For someone else in a similar style (who we like better), try NeNe Thomas (http://www.nenethomas.com). She doesn't have many angel-like pictures, though "Fairy of Ravens" makes a pretty fair Malakite. Two or three other "Fairy" pictures of hers have angel-style wings, and could as easily be angels as fairies -- they're definitely Word-bound, though. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 13:11:29 -0700 From: "Robert Veneman-Hughes" Subject: RE: IN> Stupid Seraph Tricks > However, I think they'd still get dissonance from it, just not > because of the statement's truth-value. There are many ways of > getting dissonance, after all; they may have simply discovered > a new one. (Unless it was discovered by some seraph or balseraph > hanging around Socrates, Plato, or Aristotle, or, at the very > latest, Bertrand Russell.) > > Earl What we need is the Seraph Angel of Paradoxes... - -Robert ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 16:25:51 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Stupid Seraph Tricks Robert Veneman-Hughes wrote: > What we need is the Seraph Angel of Paradoxes... Given the difficulties we've just examined, I really, really think an Elohite or Kyriotate would be more suitable. Unless a seraph would be expected to go burrowing after the more profound truth behind the paradox. As to any other choirs... "The way that can be gone is not the true way." Cherub of Paradox: "Well, when you DO find the true way, dress warmly and leave a note saying when you'll be back." Ophanite of Paradox: "If you can't GO on this "true way," forget it! I'm outta here!" Malakite of Paradox: *whack* "Don't give me that crap." Mercurian of Paradox: (laughs) "Cool! Hey, heard this one? Achilles and a toroise have a race..." Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 15:39:42 -0700 From: "Matthew W." Subject: IN> In Nomine Live Action Roleplaying "mink" wrote: << Hey y'all, once more this lil shedite needs your help... I'd like to set up an In Nomine LRP game, i've run lrps before but i cant find any rules for lrp I.N. so if any bodt han point me in the right direction to a freindly html with the rules i'd be mucho happyo. >> http://members.aol.com/sumitr/index.html This is my In Nomine LARP site. It has the beginnings of the rules on it, updates should be happening throughout the week. On the same note, I'm attempting to corrupt the local Camarilla members (read Vampire LARPers) and my local tabletop group into playing an In Nomine LARP the weekend after this one in Austin, TX. Any local In Nom players are welcome to come along. E-mail me (not the list please) if you are interested. = Mathus = = Demon of Rants = = ArchRival of Timothy = ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 16:27:58 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> The Limbo Bar and Grill >(There is a theory, proposed by R.Sean Borgstrom (in character as >Hitherby), IIRC, that soul-killed beings will be ressurected after >Armegeddon if they were worthy. This actually makes sense, if you >assume that God can pluck the "template" for the being out of the >Symphony whenever It wishes to do so, and re-weave the Forces. I >highly approve of that theory, and may yet find a place for it as >a _belief_ of some angels. (Who may even believe that certain demons >will be saved that way -- either because they were redemption candidates, >or ressurected before their Falls.)) This is a very interesting premise and idealy many angels believe this while most demons believe that they are "kerpoot" after being destroyed. Last train to Knoxville and I'll meet you in Oblivion. This is the one life you get after your celestial form is destroyed. However the basic premise behind the Limbo bar and grill is that no matter what in the universe is created and destroyed....souls cannot be obliterated. The point of the Limbo Bar and Grill was basically that long ago Lucifer and God decided that their war was meeting no point whatsoever because nothing could be destroyed... Specifically God didn't want to destroy his children and Lucifer couldn't harm the angels forever (Paradise Lost work) worse (in God's mind) the angels weren't really understanding the point behind suffering and pain and the like and had lost their way in their own world. So he gave them Mortality battling each other to allow them to see the precaciousness of life. However the Big Guy being by nature an old softy couldn't stand to see Oblivion occur and instead made the Limbo bar and Grill.... (if you don't mind whoever created Appallyon I'd like to borrow him for this-thanks to the guy who pointed this out) Any person whose soul is annhilated be it angel or Celestial due to their own carelessness, refusal to believe in a higher power, etc.....basically finds himself in the largest rib joint and bar in the universe. Like all pl aces of beer and meat (God apparently created them for this very purpose though it's possible they had something else before the stuff arrived) to pass the time til judgement day and let them think about their lives. Since Appalyon has a big but fairly needless for now word (Armageddon) he runs the place waiting too. His assistant is a guy named Adam who frankly gets stared alot at for his name. He takes over the joint's cashiers desk every time Appalyon smells Apcolyspe brewing (sign up sheets to be part of the horsemen horde that will ride with him are available at the desk) For impatient Angels this place is the equivalent of Hell and it's pretty much the purpose behind it-you play with my gift..you get to sit in the corner for the next few million years. A lot of Malakim are ticked because most didn't expect the Final Judgement to take so LONG! As demons, atheists, destroyed saints & damned, and etherials associate freely....bar fights are common. His angels are pretty mysterious folk and most people wonder if their rogues (they need to restock on music and games for the bar). By accident also a number of folk that people are wondering about (Amelia Earheart, Martin Luther, etc) have ended up hear and Appy has no idea what to do with them as to return them is to reveal *ALOT* of secrets to some people who'd like their old buddies back. Adventure Ideas * An explosian of a relicaquary device sends the players and some demons into Limbo's bar and grill and frankly as they are not supposed to be here (the device was a dimensional teleporter not a soul-death machine) Appalyon is stuck with trusting Celestials (which is not a good idea in his opinion as the people he sees daily are idiots) or them escaping (big mistake likely). * One of the destroyed damned went to the bathroom and never came back....he's gotton out threw the sewers (it was much worse in hell) into the Marches or maybe mortal realm and is about to tell Hell about the Bar as soon as he finds a tether. Appallyon's angels are a bit out of touch so he's gone to seek the players to help, hoping they can keep it quiet. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 16:51:57 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Stupid Seraph Tricks At 10:44 AM -0700 5/26/00, Stephen M Gingell wrote: >Not that any sane Seraph would ever say this but what happens if a Seraph >says... > >"This statement will immediately cause me dissonance." He explodes. Or at least gets a migraine. (Ditto for thigns like: "The next statement is false. The preceeding statement is true.") Of course, the form that _your_ sentence took sounds like he's trying to make truth -- which would be Balseraphic, which would cause him dissonance, likely enough, and he'd keep it, because Balseraphs never lie either. They just make things true that weren't before. - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. But now with a computer desk! Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 16:51:59 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Celestial physics expertize required... At 4:49 PM +0100 5/26/00, Laurent wrote: >Beth wrote: >> If it's a Vapulan Tether, be sure to have an Impudite of Vapula around, >> and/or lots of Force Catchers. That might get rid of the problem entirely. > > hem... Impudites of Vapula... ...[...] > Can't remember if they >have the Force measurement glasses... ... Oh, I give up!! What's >the story with them??? The Force-glasses. Have a VapuCookie. 'Twas a bit of a momentary EEP when the Kyrio of Jean possessed the floor in Feast of Blades and one of the guests -- a nice young fellow in glasses, started blinking. (Since when did the _floor_ have Essence?) Fortunately, things were Real Weird at that point and place, so it went un-remarked to people who would have realized there was a Bad Angel Thing Going Down. >It IS a Vapulan Tether (surprise, heh?), so now you have to tell me everything. Shedite Seneschals who have their own mainframe (and _aren't_ using a relic version -- just _have_ one 'cause they're Seneschals there) are evil and icky and generally have control over the environmental system and have filled something with poison gas. And they have Force Catchers, Vapulans do. Loads of Force Catchers. I mean, they just hates little Kyrios of Lightning, and they _know_ what the blessed little buggers can do, soooooo..... >Actually, I DO want the Kyrio to get there. In fact, I'd even like him (and his >team mate) to ascend to Hell and retrieve an artifact (not quite sure about >that, it seems pretty risky). You probably want him to be going into celform when the clothing vanishes, then... Or else maybe he _should_ get part of himself trapped in a small Force Catcher. Then, you see, the demon will _take_ him to Hell (probably) and he can try to break free then... Or any other relic, mayhap. (IIRC, David suggested that possessing relics requires Forces equal to the relic's level?) >At this point, I can as well ask you guys for advice: I need a Vapulan Tether >in Washington. If it's Washington DC, I think there's one mentioned in Maya's Fiat logs -- Hubble Space Telescope. - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. But now with a computer desk! Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 17:01:45 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> The Limbo Bar and Grill At 4:27 PM -0400 5/26/00, Charles Phipps wrote: [...] >Any person whose soul is annhilated be it angel or Celestial due to their >own carelessness, refusal to believe in a higher power, etc.....basically >finds himself in the largest rib joint and bar in the universe. (Or, in other words, Hell. If you happen to be a vegetarian and don't drink... Well, maybe they have dice. Ought to be able to get a fine game going with some dice.) ("Okay, here's what we're gonna do. First, everyone figure out how much Essence they had... We'll assign Forces from that. You, blackwings over there! C'mere and help me reconstruct the Malakite resonance check digit table. Yeah, yeah, God doesn't play dice with the universe. Well, _I_ do. You want in or not?") - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. But now with a computer desk! Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 17:11:41 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Hot Fresh Art At 4:09 PM -0400 5/26/00, Walter Milliken wrote: >At 15:26 -0400 5/26/00, mink wrote: >>Also, i found some great art work for I.N and other games in a site run by >>Ruth i think, i can't remember her surname, but heres the addy: >>www.tarnishedimages.com > >Ah, Ruth Thompson. [...] >For someone else in a similar style (who we like better), try NeNe Thomas >(http://www.nenethomas.com). She doesn't have many angel-like pictures, >though "Fairy of Ravens" makes a pretty fair Malakite. Two or three other >"Fairy" pictures of hers have angel-style wings, and could as easily be >angels as fairies -- they're definitely Word-bound, though. And then there's http://www.voluta.com/main.htm -- she changed over from having both her masks and art on the same angel-mask.com site, apparently. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 16:54:06 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Yawhew the Ethereal/Celestial >Nah -- what cheeses off the Seraphim is when they get a 5 or 6 CD and >the result comes back, "Answer Ineffable, plese hang up and try again >after Armegeddon." Kobal the Angel of Humor set that one up and I'm pretty sure it caused his fall when he laughed at the result. >Even if they do remember back to Yahweh, they may not _remember_, >if you catch my drift. If they have this conviction that THEY are >real, and Yahweh is no more real than they are, they would be quite >likely to rationalize this... (Remember, the creation of an ethereal >is a bit of a murky process -- if one comes into being with a collection >of memories...) I handle it somewhat like the Dreaming in Changeling: the Dreaming. Beings come into being when humanity unconciously spends essence to create what they want to exist to give meaning to their dull and dreary lives. (which to quote Dominic would be better spent in the Lord's work-does anyone wonder et ALL why their was a monastic order of work a holics named after him? Sure we can say it was Saint Dominic but WE know a vessel when we see one). Basically when the dreams become self sustaining like belief in a mythological figure or Santa Clause or the idea there is free money available...a being comes into existence that's an Ethereal instead of your average dream. Mickey Mouse Idolators as you know...are not tolerated if you watched Dogma. At least that's one of Jean's sevitor's explanation when they asked the old boy to do an anaylis of the Marches. >(Or, to quote a particularly repugnant-to-me test question my mother >once had... "Can you prove that the entire universe, as is, was >not created 3 minutes ago?") Yes but you'd never believe me. Is an answer that I used to give. "Feel the Force" was the answer I gave after they denied it. When they refused to or looked at me strangely I'd say "there you go." it was quite interesting and quite enlightening. >(The answer, BTW, is "no." It's that "as is" clause.) >[As others have probably said, the notion of a "divine ethereal" is >almost certainly contrary to canon (as set in the GMG) -- though it's >also probably one of the most fun cans of worms for a GM to play with, >by letting it happen and watching PC angels deal with the "Ethereal >Angels."] Hehehehehe I can just imagine it. "Okay I'm beggining to see why Uriel wanted to kill off these guys."-Novalis Seraph. "Don't you SEE...everyone but Protestant Christians are going to hell! Including you!"-Jackchick Ethereal Angel (I loved that article-it's...disturbingly true about cultural trends). "Maybe we should give one to Dominic as a birthday gift"-Malakim >Not in canon -- I don't think the corporeal realm is explained at _all_, >actually, but it's certainly not explainted as part of Heaven. (Of >course, I suspect the canon of the creation of the corporeal realm is >one of the most-often junked aspects of games, and is definitely on the >chopping block if you're running a By The Books campaign.) I try to run a by the book campaign but I like to present that the angels (Yves's servitors at least) have an answer for everything when asked that they present as *the* truth presuming Yawhew isn't one of the Six Degrees you mentioned and has messed with everybodies brains (that's enough to make the Seraph of Platonic thought fall right then and there). - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 07:32:42 -0700 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> LRP in England + Hot Fresh Art mink wrote: > Hey y'all, once more this lil shedite needs your help... > I'd like to set up an In Nomine LRP game, i've run lrps before but i cant > find any rules for lrp I.N. so if any bodt han point me in the right > direction to a freindly html with the rules i'd be mucho happyo. I wrote some IN LARP rules a few years ago, which you can find here: http://www.rpg.net/larp/in-larp.html I never actually used them, but others apparently have found them worthwhile. I've come to think that they're overly complicated, but then I lean more toward the freeform end of live gaming. Hope you find them useful. - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia Some days I know that if I let my brain fully understand what my gut was propelling me into, it'd chuck itself out my ear. - Spider Jerusalem, TRANSMETROPOLITAN #19 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 18:37:10 EDT From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Re: Celestial physics expertize required... In a message dated 5/26/00 8:50:16 AM, cossonl@logica.com writes: >At this point, I can as well ask you guys for advice: I need a Vapulan >Tether in Washington. DC? or State? Washington State has the lovely Hanford Nuclear Reservation, home of the only running graphite core nuclear reactor in the country - graphite core reactor meaning 'Same as the one that blew up in Cherynobel,' not to mention tanks and tanks of radioactive sludge dating back to the very first nuclear weapons program. Washington, DC? No clue. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 17:45:07 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Re: Celestial physics expertize required... Robert Veneman-Hughes wrote: > Canonically, the NSA Headquarters just outside the city (in Fort Meade, VA)> is a Vapulan tether. Which never made much sense to me. I used to work there; it's just a big Intel facility, and there's nothing much sinister about it. (It is high security, but unless you think Military Intelligence is inherently diabolical, it's not *evil*). In a darker campaign, though, they could be spying on the civilian populace and hatching clipper chips and such. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 17:46:19 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> LRP in England + Hot Fresh Art Walter Milliken wrote: > Ah, Ruth Thompson. As a matter of SJGames trivia, she was SJGames' Art> Director about 10 years ago, and did a lot of artwork for several GURPS books. She did GURPS Middle Ages, Camelot, and Robin Hood, right? Those were some of the worst-illustrated game books I've ever seen. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 22:03:16 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Re: Celestial physics expertize required... At 6:37 PM -0400 5/26/00, MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 5/26/00 8:50:16 AM, cossonl@logica.com writes: > > >At this point, I can as well ask you guys for advice: I need a Vapulan > >Tether in Washington. > >DC? or State? > >Washington State has the lovely Hanford Nuclear Reservation, home of the only >running graphite core nuclear reactor in the country - graphite core reactor >meaning 'Same as the one that blew up in Cherynobel,' not to mention tanks >and tanks of radioactive sludge dating back to the very first nuclear weapons >program. Not to mention the entire city of Redmond, and the sprawling Microsoft campus found there. And Amazon.com. And Adobe. And enough Startups that you can easily find Technology well represented. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 22:06:40 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Re: Celestial physics expertize required... At 5:45 PM -0500 5/26/00, David Edelstein wrote: >Robert Veneman-Hughes wrote: > > Canonically, the NSA Headquarters just outside the city (in Fort >Meade, VA)> is a Vapulan tether. > > >Which never made much sense to me. I used to work there; it's just a big >Intel facility, and there's nothing much sinister about it. (It is high >security, but unless you think Military Intelligence is inherently >diabolical, it's not *evil*). And Vapula seems weird to me. If I decided the NSA's evil IMC, I'd make its Tether the Game or Secrets. There's no really good Angelic tether material there (Revelation doesn't work since they don't tell their secrets, Judgement really isn't right for them, War isn't really their style...) - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 00:07:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Gant Subject: IN> Resonating while Celestial A question has just occurred to me. Can a Celestial (Angel or Demon, take your pick) use it's resonance on Corporeal targets while in Celestial form? I can't seem to find anything about this, and it's bothering me. I'm almost inclined to allow it. However, this leads to bad images of free-ranging packs of Calabim of Fire running around in Celestial form blowing people up, and then fleeing to Hell when the Angels track them down. (And I can see Belial approving, and shielding them from the wrath of The Game.) Is there a canon answer? Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/4656/ The Returners Final Fantasy Role-Playing Game Site: http://returners.simplenet.com/ or http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Matrix/5758/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 00:12:20 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Re: Celestial physics expertize required... At 18:45 -0400 5/26/00, David Edelstein wrote: >Robert Veneman-Hughes wrote: >> Canonically, the NSA Headquarters just outside the city (in Fort Meade, VA)> is a Vapulan tether. > >Which never made much sense to me. I used to work there; it's just a big >Intel facility, and there's nothing much sinister about it. I don't know about Intel stuff there, but it at least used to have the largest concentration of computing power on the planet, as best I know. Or maybe all that stuff was over at the annex near BWI. All I know is that they were a big consumer of supercomputer and very high speed network hardware. Whether you consider it sinister, probably depends on your paranoia level. It's clearly true that NSA knows a lot more about crypto algorithms than anyone else, though they're probably not as far ahead of the academic community as they used to be. > (It is high >security, but unless you think Military Intelligence is inherently >diabolical, it's not *evil*). I think the Vapulan Tether was more predicated on the amount of computer hardware there, plus the *potential* they have to misuse their capabilities to play Big Brother. In anything approaching a dark campaign, it makes a fair amount of sense to presume they *do* misuse their abilities, on behalf of *someone*. >In a darker campaign, though, they could be spying on the civilian >populace and hatching clipper chips and such. "Give us the keys to your house -- we'll keep them safe; we're the government, you can trust us." If that's not Balseraphic, I don't know what is.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 00:14:01 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> LRP in England + Hot Fresh Art At 18:46 -0400 5/26/00, David Edelstein wrote: >Walter Milliken wrote: >> Ah, Ruth Thompson. As a matter of SJGames trivia, she was SJGames' Art> Director about 10 years ago, and did a lot of artwork for several GURPS books. > > >She did GURPS Middle Ages, Camelot, and Robin Hood, right? Those were >some of the worst-illustrated game books I've ever seen. And one or both of the Magic Items books, I think. I'd agree she wasn't the best illustrator SJGames has used. But there *have* been worse ones. (Though probably they didn't do quite so much work....) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 00:08:48 -0400 From: "EDG" Subject: Re: IN> Resonating while Celestial > A question has just occurred to me. Can a Celestial (Angel or Demon, take > your pick) use it's resonance on Corporeal targets while in Celestial > form? I can't seem to find anything about this, and it's bothering me. I can find two references to this in the main rulebook. p. 53 is vague; in Perceiving a Celestial Form: "If a celestial form attempts to use a Song, resonance, or attunement..." - with the implication that this is on the corporeal plane. p. 56, on the other hand, is more definite: "In general, a resonance can be used at any time...". > I'm almost inclined to allow it. However, this leads to bad images of > free-ranging packs of Calabim of Fire running around in Celestial form > blowing people up, and then fleeing to Hell when the Angels track them > down. (And I can see Belial approving, and shielding them from the wrath > of The Game.) Yup. >:) - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 00:22:57 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Re: Celestial physics expertize required... At 22:06 -0400 5/26/00, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >At 5:45 PM -0500 5/26/00, David Edelstein wrote: >>Robert Veneman-Hughes wrote: >> > Canonically, the NSA Headquarters just outside the city (in Fort >>Meade, VA)> is a Vapulan tether. >> >> >>Which never made much sense to me. I used to work there; it's just a big >>Intel facility, and there's nothing much sinister about it. (It is high >>security, but unless you think Military Intelligence is inherently >>diabolical, it's not *evil*). > >And Vapula seems weird to me. If I decided the NSA's evil IMC, I'd >make its Tether the Game or Secrets. Well, they're probably the most technologically sophisticated government agency. The other obvious alternative would be the Game, but I think that fits the CIA a lot better; the NSA is much more oriented to voyeurism than intervention. Secrets doesn't feel right to me; they don't so much hoard their own as develop technology to discover other peoples', and protect those of US government agencies. While this does fit Secrets to a degree, it's somewhat indirect, and they tend to be *very* technology-mad. I'm sure both the Game and Secrets have interests in the NSA, but it makes sense to me that Technology is the primary master there. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 00:40:33 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> LRP in England + Hot Fresh Art At 5:46 PM -0500 5/26/00, David Edelstein wrote: >Walter Milliken wrote: >> Ah, Ruth Thompson. As a matter of SJGames trivia, she was SJGames' Art> >>Director about 10 years ago, and did a lot of artwork for several GURPS books. > >She did GURPS Middle Ages, Camelot, and Robin Hood, right? Those were >some of the worst-illustrated game books I've ever seen. And Magic Items 1, at least -- her "fast work" did tend to be a bit... Um. Well, a bit ... hurried. Her painted work sells at conventions, oft for obscene amounts in auction. (Natch, her painted work is displayed on the website, so you can see her quality when she takes her _time_ at it. I don't always find her style to my tastes, but am usually amused by her "liquid armor" effect on some of her Leggy Babes With Attitude.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 00:44:25 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Resonating while Celestial At 12:07 AM -0400 5/27/00, Richard Gant wrote: >A question has just occurred to me. Can a Celestial (Angel or Demon, take >your pick) use it's resonance on Corporeal targets while in Celestial >form? With the exception of the Calabim, I see no reason not to. (Handwave the Calabim with something about not crossing realms/states well because of the manifestation of their Discord. handwave, handwave.) Or you might simply rule that Perception-based resonances work (very logical) while Will-based ones do not, which is probably, now that I think of it, more likely to be where canon comes down on that issue should it have to do so -- otherwise Habbalah can be a bit of a nuisance. >free-ranging packs of Calabim of Fire running around in Celestial form >blowing people up, and then fleeing to Hell when the Angels track them >down. Oh, they can do this anyway -- they just have to save a little Essence and make another Will roll or two, to get away. And they risk getting a little soul-damage before they go haring off. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 23:34:23 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Resonating while Celestial Richard Gant wrote: > > A question has just occurred to me. Can a Celestial (Angel or Demon, take> your pick) use it's resonance on Corporeal targets while in Celestial> form? Yes. > I'm almost inclined to allow it. However, this leads to bad images of > free-ranging packs of Calabim of Fire running around in Celestial form > blowing people up, and then fleeing to Hell when the Angels track them > down. Sure, why not? It costs them 2 Essence to go celestial for a period of a few minutes. Sure, they could wreak a lot of damage in that time, but they could wreak just as much damage running around corporeally, and just as easily flee to Hell when the Malakim show up. And they probably wouldn't like being caught in celestial form when the Malakim do show up - -- they could take a lot of Soul hits in the round before they descend to Hell. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 00:34:59 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Resonating while Celestial At 0:07 -0400 5/27/00, Richard Gant wrote: >A question has just occurred to me. Can a Celestial (Angel or Demon, take >your pick) use it's resonance on Corporeal targets while in Celestial >form? I can't seem to find anything about this, and it's bothering me. > >I'm almost inclined to allow it. However, this leads to bad images of >free-ranging packs of Calabim of Fire running around in Celestial form >blowing people up, and then fleeing to Hell when the Angels track them >down. (And I can see Belial approving, and shielding them from the wrath >of The Game.) > >Is there a canon answer? I know we made it explicit in GURPS IN that both Calabite and target have to be celestial to use the power to do celestial damage (which I think is from the IPG or the FAQ somewhere), but it's true that that doesn't forbid a celestial Calabite from using it on a corporeal target to do corporeal damage. The main canon meta-rule is that corporeal beings cannot normally cause soul hits, without a specific waiver in the power description (like Celestial Light or several demonic attunements); this also tends to extend the other direction -- you can't do soul hits to a corporeal target unless the power explicitly says you can. I think the main motivation behind this is a game-balance concern that soul hits are a lot more serious than body hits, and therefore there shouldn't be a way to cause them without being open to loss of soul hits in retaliation. (I.e., generally both combatants must be celestial.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 00:52:34 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Resonating while Celestial At 12:08 AM -0400 5/27/00, EDG wrote: >> A question has just occurred to me. Can a Celestial (Angel or Demon, take >> your pick) use it's resonance on Corporeal targets while in Celestial >> form? I can't seem to find anything about this, and it's bothering me. > >I can find two references to this in the main rulebook. p. 53 is vague; in >Perceiving a Celestial Form: "If a celestial form attempts to use a Song, >resonance, or attunement..." - with the implication that this is on the >corporeal plane. p. 56, on the other hand, is more definite: "In general, a >resonance can be used at any time...". Ah, okay, this pretty well indicates that if you're in celestial form, you have free rein to use your resonance, in canon. I can live with that. (However, the Calabite description specifically says that the Calabite has to be in celestial form to affect celestial forms -- you could probably make that work re corporeal form, too, if you just hate the idea for them.) Good catch. - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. But now with a computer desk! Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 01:43:36 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Yawhew The Etherial/Celestial >Heck, he probably created all his Archangels with that memory. No >wonder such memories get fuzzy the further you go back. It's not >just that they'e _forgetting_, but that the memories are... false. That's a scary thought that I can introduce for angels. The various pantheons were easy to destroy because each "remembers" creating the world, flooding it, doing etc...and don't understand why the other was lying. When in truth they all came to being full blown with histories and choirs when humanity willed them to serve as their gaurdians until the time the real God (whoever he is) emerges. "There can be only one" >This is probably what the ethereals claim is the case -- since most >humans don't remember that far back either. (Funny, no neanderthals >in Heaven...) _They_ of course remember the truth! That's the funny part about In Nomine you can never tell exactly what's true and what's not with Kobal and Asmodeus and the rest running around. For all we know Dinosaurs never existed and are a joint effort by Beleth (with his dragon survivors) and Nybalas to awaken humanity's belief in myth while weaking Christianity....backfiring by helping Jean (oooo cloning) and Jordi (oooo my beloved animals are getting publicity again!). Given Angels get their superiors spiel...only Yves knows the truth. Neanderthalls? Bah...just those missing Nephilim skelatons! (Ever wonder if he's the Old Testament God since God checked out to go take a nap in front of CNN? I mean how much could the world change in a 100 million years....I mean he started this ball rolling 50 billion years ago and nothing really was happening) Another possibility of course is the Neanderthalls did show up but long since moved on to a higher heaven or got lost in the shuffle as they tried out Heaven's various delights (oooo I can modernize? Get rid of this jaw? Come on Angel of plastic surgey...do your stuff). >Right. And presumably if he _is_ a hopped-up ethereal, he's been >eating any other Yahwehs to appear. Fun fact? Pack-God! Ahura-Mazda *chomp* Yahwhew, (New Yawhew) *chomp* various Semetic deities to become monotheistic Judeiac god...... *power ball* now invincible...slays First Born of Egypt creates Heavens Celestial realm....archangels are promoted... Yawhew *chomp* Allah, Yawhew *chomp* Beodiwin Tribal, Yawhew *chomp* Egyptian, Olympian, Germanic tribal, and Russian gods, Yawhew *chomp* South American deities... *next level* *leaves universe...works on next ones..leaves angels* - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1645 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.