From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun May 28 16:33:55 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA03098 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 16:33:55 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id QAA15089 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 28 May 2000 16:32:52 -0500 Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 16:32:52 -0500 Message-Id: <200005282132.QAA15089@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1647 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, May 28 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1647 In this digest: Re: IN> Mythic creatures and Angels Re: IN> LRP in England + Hot Fresh Art Fwd: Re: IN> Pentagrams (was: In Nomine Dice) IN> Fundies (Re: Pentagrams) Re: IN> LRP in England + Hot Fresh Art Re: IN> LRP in England + Hot Fresh Art Re: IN> Ahem... IN> More tat Re: IN> Pentagrams (was: In Nomine Dice) IN> Religion in In Nomine Re: IN> Religion in In Nomine Re: IN> Religion in In Nomine Re: IN> Stupid Seraph Tricks Re: IN> Stupid Seraph Tricks Re: IN> Pentagrams (was: In Nomine Dice) Re: IN> Pentagrams (was: In Nomine Dice) Re: IN> LRP in England Re: IN> Religion in In Nomine Re: IN> Religion in In Nomine Re: IN> Religion in In Nomine Re: IN> Age and Words (semi-long) Re:IN> Re: Celestial physics expertize required... IN> Love amongst Superiors Re: IN> Pentagrams (was: In Nomine Dice) Re: IN> Religion in In Nomine Re: IN> Religion in In Nomine Re: IN> Love amongst Superiors Re: IN> Six ideas for Yahweh IN> Live Gaming (was: LRP in England) Re: IN> Six ideas for Yahweh ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 03:53:26 -0500 From: "Tafka J." Subject: Re: IN> Mythic creatures and Angels At 2:26 PM -0400 05/26/00, Charles Phipps wrote: >[Purity Crusade] >(I figure it lasted til about the 14th century when he got the South >American gods) That's a misnomer. Basically, when Uriel got pulled up to the Higher Heavens, the slaughter (for the most part) ended. The Aztec/Mayan gods did not slip through the cracks. They were quite-quite dead by that point. However, the people still carried on the traditions. Possibly spawning a temporary upsurge of Essence during the height of those two great empires. But then, Makatiel (Demon Prince of Disease), or _someone_ else released the plagues that killed the population that worshiped them. . . Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = tafkaj@thrifty.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 11:04:10 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> LRP in England + Hot Fresh Art From: Patrick O'Duffy > I think action scenes in tabletop games are great - I love them. > I also think two guys standing in a room saying "we're fighting!" is dull. well, i'd agree with you there. i guess i'm thinking of a different style of LRP. the ones i play in feature people actually fighting if they want to fight. the scissors-paper-rock thing does indeed suck > Take out the physical elements of live combat, and all you have is some (rather > boring) words. And you _have_ to take out the physical elements, or else > people will get hurt. it depends on whether you play with idiots or not. i've been LRPing for nigh on four years, and can only think of someone being hurt once, and that was when they fell off a log during a talkey encounter :) obviously the "idiots element" does push the danger level up somewhat (one of the reasons i don't really like games with hundreds of people at them, you tend to get at least a few dozen morons) > I'm (slowly) doing up some live ShadowRun rules for a friend. That's a game > where combat is very common - and again, I'm stripping it right down and > de-emphasizing action, becaue it just doesn't work in a live context. yeah, i have had trouble in modern/future games when i've tried to make the rules for guns fairly "realistic". at some point in the evening someone would inevitably pull out a piece and five minutes later everyone's dead... liam ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 08:24:30 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Fwd: Re: IN> Pentagrams (was: In Nomine Dice) >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Admin request of type /^\s*w h o \s*$/i at line 2 (Basically, it complained when it found a "who" beginning a line in the first six lines of the text. Yeesh. And I edited the apostrophes while I had it. 4 hours sleep, the editing bug, hey... -- Beth) >From: "David Rodemaker" >Subject: Re: IN> Pentagrams (was: In Nomine Dice) >Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 22:07:30 -0500 > >>> 1: No matter what we think of the matter, there is a minority of gamers >>> who are pagan and would probably be offended to see the use of thier >>> major religious symbol equated with evil. >> >> So what? A minority of gamers are Christians who would probably be >> offended to see Jesus Christ used as a gaming character (particularly >> the way he's used in the original INS/MV game). >> >> You've punched one of my hotbuttons. If we're going wail and gnash our >> teeth over offending certain religions, let's be equally inoffensive to >> everyone (and thus utterly bland), shall we? It always seems odd to me >> that the complaints from Christians regarding IN have been infrequent >> and mild, but pagans seem to think their religion should be treated with >> special regard. > >I don't see why the game has to out of its way to though.... I also don't >see why we should be offending any religion. Most Pagans in my experience >do tend to be perhaps a "little too sensitive" on the matter but then again >it's the same reaction gays, lesbians, bi's, & transexuals also tend to >have on the subject of sexuality. When people tend to get kicked in the >teeeth over something repeatedly they tend to become oversensitized to the >issue. > >Besides, Christians in the game are basically portrayed as the only people >who have half-a-clue to the "Truth" and the pagan's are all deluded >schmuck's feeding essence to figments of thier imagination. The portrayal of >Christianity in the game fits very well with the image of Christianity that >modern America tends to hold as "true" and that very bland conception of >what is good with little absolutes probably doesn't offend many people for >that reason. The game has stated that people like JC are CDaU which is fine >since there are still "Christian" churches that teach the same dogma (or >rather that he wasn't God manifest). What do Christians have to complain >about in this game? It isn't portraying the Christian faith in any worse >light than is taught in the history books certainly. > >Bwahh... It doesn't really matter that much and I really can't go too far >out of my way saying that we shouldn't offend people (God, Goddess, Cat, >whatever knows...). My own campaigns tend to run like morality plays and I >can really rub peoples noses in religion and I tend to enjoy doing it... but >I also know how to punch or not punch those buttons for my players. The >point of the game is not to offend people but to have fun and that is really >what this whole rant meant to say. > >The Other David > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 08:47:05 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Fundies (Re: Pentagrams) At 11:44 AM -0500 5/27/00, David Rodemaker wrote: >2: Not that IN needs any help with this matter but the Christian Fundies out [As a note, I don't knw what _he_ means when he says Fundie, but I know what I mean; it's not necessarily "Fundamentalist." A Fundie is a thing beyond. My grandfather, sweet 100-this-year old guy that he is, is a Fundie. *sigh*] >there would just love to have another reason to point at the evil, satanic, >etc *dice* that SJG sells and now people are using these *dice* (a game of >chance and thus evil remember) to determine what evil acts they are going to >perfom blah, blah, blah... > >IN has enough problems in the marketplace as it is, lets not make it any >harder shall we? Actually, I figure some nice controversial bible-thumping "Thayas hearah book is EEEEEE-VIL" promotion might be interesting. But I've never got up the gumption to send a book to the fundies. And the one I'd want to send would be, like, the APG and I don't know if they'd get righteous enough about it. - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. But now with a computer desk! Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 08:49:47 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> LRP in England + Hot Fresh Art At 4:57 PM -0400 5/27/00, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >Nene Thomas is good, though her loose clothing tends to have almost >impossible numbers of "draping folds" on them, to the result that her >pictures tend to have 'Elven noble in armor and a cloak he wadded up >under his bed for six weeks then threw on without so much as a >tumble-dry cycle' characters being squired by 'beautiful and wise >maids wearing gowns they unfortunately had to wring out by hand for >six hours, then put on.' owowowowowowowow. - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. But now with a computer desk! Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 08:57:24 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> LRP in England + Hot Fresh Art At 10:06 PM -0500 5/27/00, Kiara S. Legner wrote: >>>It's not hard. Just trace a Playboy centerfold. Then paint ears and a >tail on her, and call her a furry. Heh. >-David (people actually pay money for that...)<< > >They *do*??? Hm... Maybe I've found a new source of income >after all... >Lessee. Where can I trace the wings from to make it an In Nomine >centerfold? Don't use the ones from the APG. They're crooked. Use old Playboys, too, so that you can't get spotted easily. (For better effect, rotate, and maybe use a face from a different one, I'd figure. Remember, if it's one source, it's plaguerism or copyright violation; if it's many sources, it's research.) - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. But now with a computer desk! Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 08:57:23 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Ahem... At 12:46 AM -0400 5/28/00, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >http://sluggy.com/stuff/highlite.html > >Finally, some respect from the Net Gods on high. I'm glad he liked it! - --Beth, on about 4 hours sleep. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 14:19:44 +0100 From: "mink" Subject: IN> More tat Hi y'all, thanks for the links you mentioned, the nene thomas wasnt that bad, one of the lrp sites was not any whare near completed, but one of them was cool, thanks for the links. Ok, heres something i cames across the other day, and maybe Beth has run across recently as well.... a permanantly earthbound Group of demons who all work for Kobal. "THE DEMONS OF HOUSE MOVING" Our first demon in this group is a Shedite, he never posseses people however, just objects around the house, for instance, the bed that was easy to get upstairs seems strangely unweildy when trying to get it down stairs, and all those little items that just vanish once you unpack everything, tv remotes, the final screw fot the shelving unit, and bits of lego that appear under your feet when you dont have any socks on. All theses are signs that this guy has been pestering you in your move. The secound demon is a Balseraph, this one oftens turns up as one of the removal men, tells you that every thing will be safe as house, "no.. nothing will get broken, we're professionals, we do this all the time and thank you, i dont want any tea love." He like to think that he is incharge of the group, the proverbial 'gaffer' (an english term, similar to foreman). The third demon in this group is a Djinn, formally in service to Valefor. This guy roots through the boxes of the movers whilst the are out of the property, takes any real valubles that are small and not at first hand noticably missing and sells them on at a good rate through the right chanels, knowing that the family hairlooms are never to be seen again. And the fourth and final member is a Lilim, often appearing as a 'dizzy blonde with long legs and a great figure'. This little tempter has a difficult job at the best of times, she as two different tasks in the group, the first of which is simpley to be a cleaner who offers her expertise to the post move stressed couple and asks what items are missing, finds the stuff that the Shedite 'lost' and gets some favors back in return. Her other job in the group is to cause the man to have secound thought, then get him to have an affair, then leave his doting family once the house has been moved into. She often has offers from Malphaas to go work for him, but she politley refuses then lets her real boss (mummy) know of the wonderful geases she managed to get rid of and the favors she got whilst stuck down there. Ok i hope you enjoyed that. i ran across this motley group whilst moving, stuff got broke, stuff went missing, stuff got found and beds were difficult to get downstairs. Yup it was deffinatley this group.... ((hmmm im having a little plot idea....)) Oh, whilst im here, folks was talking about the names for lilim a few digests ago... well no one mentioned Inccubus (singular= incubi) or Succubus (singular= sucubi) as alternatives for the singilar format of the lilim name. These may be used for Impudites aswell, if they work for Beleth, as i recall, inc/suc were demons spawned in dreams that came to reality through lsuty dreams, offerd the dreamer all kinds of stuff in return for a night of crazed passion. This could be a side project tat Andre and Beleth worked on in the dark ages, but their like has not been seen since in history..... Or maybe they were Ethereals that emulated the lilim/impudites but they were killed of during the 'purity pinic day out' as sponsered by Uriel.... ((hmm another plot seed strikes me...)) As for 'pac-god' sounds more like Galactus to me (silversurfer) . :::Well, thanks for listening, at the end of this message press six three times to reset system and continue reading. 'bleeeep'::: ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 08:16:31 -0500 From: "Kiara S. Legner" Subject: Re: IN> Pentagrams (was: In Nomine Dice) > >David Rodemaker wrote: > > I have an idea! Why don't we use the Star of David? It has six points, >jo wrote: 8 points :) Erm, Jo? It's two intersecting triangles. That's six. Ki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 09:36:20 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Religion in In Nomine Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >I don't see why the game has to out of its way to though.... I also don't > >see why we should be offending any religion. Well, the problem is, what's "offensive"? As I pointed out in the GMG, some people can handle having their religion treated less than seriously, even satirically (I'll bet lots of the French INS/MV players are Catholic), others can't handle having their religion treated as anything less than undisputed Absolute Truth. Use religion AT ALL in a game, and someone will be offended. > >Most Pagans in my experience> >do tend to be perhaps a "little too sensitive" on the matter but then again > >it's the same reaction gays, lesbians, bi's, & transexuals also tend to > >have on the subject of sexuality. When people tend to get kicked in the > >teeeth over something repeatedly they tend to become oversensitized to the > >issue. Tough. Deliberate and meaningful offenses deserve a response. "I'm sensitive because we've been picked on so don't you dare say anything that might upset me" elicits no sympathy from me. If paganism was portrayed in In Nomine as inherently diabolical (i.e., all pagans are sending Essence to Hell, whether they know it or not), that would be a legitimate thing to complain about. But it's been made very clear, repeatedly, that pagans are a "third force" in the War, and that some of them (and their ethereal deities) are benevolent and some are not. > >Besides, Christians in the game are basically portrayed as the only people > >who have half-a-clue to the "Truth" and the pagan's are all deluded > >schmuck's feeding essence to figments of thier imagination. Really? Which book did you read that in? It's certainly not in the GMG, which covers religion in detail. Nor is it in the EPG, which covers ethereals in more detail. > >What do Christians have to complain> >about in this game? It isn't portraying the Christian faith in any worse> >light than is taught in the history books certainly. If you're talking about theology, Christians (particularly fundamentalists) _could_ claim that the game represents Christianity as just one religion among many, with no special status, and that even the angels don't necessarily consider Christians to be better or more likely to go to Heaven than anyone else. But like I said, most Christian gamers seem to be able to deal with this just fine. It's only the pagans that go looking for injury. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 11:19:08 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Religion in In Nomine At 9:36 AM -0500 5/28/00, David Edelstein wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: Actually, I forwarded, on behalf of a bounced message from David Rodemaker . Tsk. [...] >anything less than undisputed Absolute Truth. Use religion AT ALL in a >game, and someone will be offended. A-yup. (Of course, some forms of offense are more offensive than others -- saying some group is totally demon-controlled is both over-the-top (except for Microsoft... O;> ) and really too simplistic to make for a good game. Gray areas of human mis-belief are far more suitble to make the PCs twitch. "What do you _mean_ this cult member is... _honorable_?? How am I supposed to smite him _now_?") >If paganism was portrayed in In Nomine as inherently diabolical (i.e., >all pagans are sending Essence to Hell, whether they know it or not), >that would be a legitimate thing to complain about. But it's been made >very clear, repeatedly, that pagans are a "third force" in the War, and >that some of them (and their ethereal deities) are benevolent and some >are not. (What he said.) >But like I said, most Christian gamers seem to be able to deal with this >just fine. It's only the pagans that go looking for injury. Be precise -- only _some_ pagans. I recall posts from various pagans who not only don't go looking for injury, but get tickled pink by the game. Many do seem to prefer the "Yaweh _is_ a hopped up ethereal" option, from what I remember, though, or otherwise beef up the ethereals in their campaigns. Just like some Christians would have a cow about the game (my grandfather comes to mind), while others enjoy it highly and come up with comments like, "We all have our own ways of being annying in the service of God." (Actual quote from Christian gamers we game with. Along with things from the Kyrio of Jean like "You can't dodge your underwear.") - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. But now with a computer desk! Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 08:08:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Knop Subject: Re: IN> Religion in In Nomine On Sun, 28 May 2000, David Edelstein wrote: > > >What do Christians have to complain> >about in this game? It > isn't portraying the Christian faith in any worse> >light than is > taught in the history books certainly. > > If you're talking about theology, Christians (particularly > fundamentalists) _could_ claim that the game represents Christianity as > just one religion among many, with no special status, and that even the > angels don't necessarily consider Christians to be better or more likely > to go to Heaven than anyone else. Hmm-- my view (as a Christian) is that while this game uses Judeo-Christian mythology as a source, it's entirely a fictional universe, no more real than then universes of Planescape or Harn or Traveller or GURPS Black Ops or what have you. The God of In Nomine is portrayed in a light which could be potentially offensive to Christians, but I think the trick is just indeed to not get worked up over it, and take the fictional game as it is and have fun with it. - -Rob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 23:59:17 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> Stupid Seraph Tricks the GM strikes the player stupid. - -Dennis H. Groome V "Amo Nympham" ICQ: 11340261 "Our Fathers were the model for God. If Our Fathers failed, what does that tell you about God?" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 12:05:33 -0500 From: "Tafka J." Subject: Re: IN> Stupid Seraph Tricks At 3:20 PM -0400 05/26/00, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >You know, I bet Elohim love manipulating Balseraphs into this. Well, >love in a remote way, of course... "Damned manipulative space alien angel. . ." This is why the people who want to be TRULY evil, play Elohim instead of a Demon. They do things that would put Machavelli's Prince (or the Borgia's, same difference) to shame. Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = tafkaj@thrifty.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 10:16:19 PDT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Pentagrams (was: In Nomine Dice) >From: "Kiara S. Legner" > > > >David Rodemaker wrote: > > > I have an idea! Why don't we use the Star of David? It has six points, > > >jo wrote: >8 points :) > >Erm, Jo? It's two intersecting triangles. That's six. OK, point :) I shouldn't post so early in the morning! jo But I have a Mew -- worship me! ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 12:24:08 +0100 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> Pentagrams (was: In Nomine Dice) >You've punched one of my hotbuttons. If we're going wail and gnash our >teeth over offending certain religions, let's be equally inoffensive to >everyone (and thus utterly bland), shall we? It always seems odd to me >that the complaints from Christians regarding IN have been infrequent >and mild, but pagans seem to think their religion should be treated with >special regard. Buttons or no. We know a number of Christian roleplayers who will not play In Nomine because it offends their religious sensibilities. They don't mind others playing - these are people who have quietly removed themselves from the IN player base and market. So whilst I'm unlikely to advocate 'blandness', it doesn't seem like a good marketing move to add to their numbers by giving other people reasons for not wanting to try the game. Of course, on our side of the pond, the use of pentagrams is more likely to attract pagans to a game than repel them.. And if we're voting, although I'm not a dice collector personally, I think sticking to canon IN iconography is the best idea. Hilary Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 12:38:37 +0100 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> LRP in England >well, i'd agree with you there. i guess i'm thinking of a different style of >LRP. the ones i play in feature people actually fighting if they want to >fight. the scissors-paper-rock thing does indeed suck If I may intrude to sort out a few semantics here... The problem is that 'combat-orientated' and 'theatre-orientated' LARPs are both called by the same name. Just as angels and demons are all Celestials. This doesn't make an angel into a demon or vice versa so, by analogy... It seems to me that IN is much better suited to Freeform (desperately trying to avoid the pretention of 'interactive theatre') styles than simulated combat styles. I can't see what the IN background has to add to an ongoing simulated combat game (though it could be good fun as a 'one off'). Roomsful of people playing Angels, Demons, Ethereals, Soldiers and Mundanes in various combinations are a lot of fun. We've run several IN LARPs this side of the pond (in the UK and in Ireland). We don't use scissors, paper, stone but we have had several serious smitings... The problem with simulated weapons in IN is that they can't replicate some of the more interesting effects (resonance, attunements etc). There are plenty of games where you can hit your opponent with a sword or shoot them with a firearm. The 'supernatural' component of IN is integral to the nature (and the 'feel') of the game. So, whilst I can see the fun in a horde of Malakim with rubber swords storming the gates of Hell, it strikes me that it would be just another fantasy boffer game with a few bolt-ons, rather than something distinctively In Nomine per se. Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 18:57:53 +0100 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> Religion in In Nomine >Be precise -- only _some_ pagans. I recall posts from various pagans >who not only don't go looking for injury, but get tickled pink by >the game. Many do seem to prefer the "Yaweh _is_ a hopped up ethereal" >option, from what I remember, though, or otherwise beef up the >ethereals in their campaigns. I have yet to come across any pagans who have been offended by In Nomine. My own experience is rather the opposite, the only people I know who have been offended are Christians, and they have done nothing other than not play the game and state why. They have never implied the game should not be played by others. >But like I said, most Christian gamers seem to be able to deal with this >just fine. It's only the pagans that go looking for injury. This is not my experience. Who and what precise pagan belief? >Hmm-- my view (as a Christian) is that while this game uses >Judeo-Christian mythology as a source, it's entirely a fictional >universe, no more real than then universes of Planescape or Harn or >Traveller or GURPS Black Ops or what have you. The God of In Nomine is >portrayed in a light which could be potentially offensive to Christians, >but I think the trick is just indeed to not get worked up over it, and >take the fictional game as it is and have fun with it. Precisely. In Nomine is a game. Equally some people do get touchy about religion. The God in In Nomine could be regarded as offensive to Christians, Jews and Muslims. Let's face it, the Life of Brain got banned in various cinemas across the UK, and Rushdie got into all sorts of trouble over the Satanic Verses. Some people are this sensitive. Ashley. Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 18:52:47 +0100 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> Religion in In Nomine >If paganism was portrayed in In Nomine as inherently diabolical (i.e., >all pagans are sending Essence to Hell, whether they know it or not), >that would be a legitimate thing to complain about. But it's been made >very clear, repeatedly, that pagans are a "third force" in the War, and >that some of them (and their ethereal deities) are benevolent and some >are not. I tend to use the pagan material this way, I like the idea of a third force, especially one that can be created by Humanity. In this sense Humanity becomes a more significant player in the war. Ashley. Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 13:09:59 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Religion in In Nomine Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Be precise -- only _some_ pagans. I was precise. I was speaking about people who complain about In Nomine's treatment of their religion. I haven't heard from any Christian gamers who have a problem with it, only pagans. I didn't say all pagans feel that way -- just the ones who bitch. - -David ------------------------------ Date: 28 May 2000 19:38:22 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> Age and Words (semi-long) On Fri, 26 May 2000 09:31:56 -0400 neelk@cswcasa.com wrote: [snip] >So a battle-scarred Seraph of Gabriel could pay 3 points and she >could be a relentles pursuer of the cruel. Note that Michael didn't >have trauma resistance, because he had never been defeated. :) i like this. i like this so much i'll be using it, especially the last bit 0;> for the record, i'd rather play an Ofanite of Gabriel and pay those three points, but never-you-mind, eh? -=|horsefly|=- "It was a different time: a time of blood and guns and killings.... It was a time when killers needed saints, for so much of God's good work was being done." --SAINT OF KILLERS #4, Garth Ennis ------------------------------ Date: 28 May 2000 20:03:52 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re:IN> Re: Celestial physics expertize required... On Fri, 26 May 2000 16:49:53 +0100 Laurent wrote: >so basically, "any mineral" as it says in the main book (IIRC) is in fact >limitted to soil, stone and metal. right? And at normal temperatures. Servitors of Stone, to phrase it economically, can travel through solid* soil, rock, and metal. * not gas, not liquid. -=|horsefly|=- If I ever wanted to say 'gwrthwynebiad', I'd probably kill myself by choking on my own tongue. =) - --John Karakash ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 16:27:27 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Love amongst Superiors >It's probably been done a couple thousand times, so I'll dispense with the >comments I had (to avoid the wrath of the Princess) and just correct a >misconception: But of course indeed. Just to note the spending of essence for that I am aware of the rule but I'm also aware in my opinion it probably still happens quite a bit. In my opinion vessel bound Angels feel the need very much that humans do to procreate and probably more so as the idea of having children save to the most jaded Elohim must be extremely attractive to a great deal of Celestials.... A powerful temptation to taste of what humans were meant to have....I also saw a rather prophecy like jealousy there. >As a general rule, vessels can't get pregnant, or get anything /else/ >pregnant (they're sterile). If you're wearing a vessel, and you get >pregnant or impregnate someone, it probably means that the three guys in >black suits standing in front of you will have Judgment IDs. (The Song of >Fruition is, again as a rule, a no-no.) Well Kyrioates are of course at a bit of a danger for this as they unlike Celestials can get people pregnant using their vessels however I doubt severely they suffer from the type of envy a angel in a vessel would. Of course demons no doubt have no such problem with creating children...indeed likely they enjoy siring the little soldiers of darkness. (Saminga would likely order his minions to refrain from such activities as...frankly Saminga is an idiot) Basically though I think each Superior would have his/her own method of dealing with angels who did engauge in corporal sex (one of my favorite stories is how Michael found out about a pregnant gal and how he dealt with it), sire children, and more importantly fall in love with a mortal. Thus my topic. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 16:42:27 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Pentagrams (was: In Nomine Dice) At 8:16 AM -0500 5/28/00, Kiara S. Legner wrote: > > > >David Rodemaker wrote: > > > I have an idea! Why don't we use the Star of David? It has six points, > > >jo wrote: >8 points :) > >Erm, Jo? It's two intersecting triangles. That's six. > >Ki They point in as well as out, Ki... - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 16:49:05 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Religion in In Nomine At 6:52 PM +0100 5/28/00, Omentide wrote: >>If paganism was portrayed in In Nomine as inherently diabolical (i.e., >>all pagans are sending Essence to Hell, whether they know it or not), >>that would be a legitimate thing to complain about. But it's been made >>very clear, repeatedly, that pagans are a "third force" in the War, and >>that some of them (and their ethereal deities) are benevolent and some >>are not. > >I tend to use the pagan material this way, I like the idea of a >third force, especially one that can be created by Humanity. In >this sense Humanity becomes a more significant player in the war. Actually, IMC that's the *entire* of the issue. God created man. Man created Ethereals. This was the reason Uriel launched his Crusade. But at the same time, God originally told his Angels to leave the humans (and their works) alone. So what if the creation of Ethereals by the thoughts of man is the *point?* Then, the very thing God might have been looking for might have been driven more to Hell's side than not by default. It adds a sort of Babylon 5 feel to the metagame. (I say metagame because my PCs are generally more concerned with 'that Calabite has a really big bomb and if I step out to do something his resonance will turn me into Mercurikibble' than the mythic underpinnings of the game. Well, right *now* they are. Give us time.) - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 16:50:18 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Religion in In Nomine At 6:57 PM +0100 5/28/00, Omentide wrote: > Let's face it, the Life of Brain got banned in various cinemas across the UK, What's deplorable is "The Life of Pinky" is shown on Channel 4 during children's hour. Oh, the *humanity.* - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 16:56:23 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Love amongst Superiors At 4:27 PM -0400 5/28/00, Charles Phipps wrote: > >Of >course demons no doubt have no such problem with creating children...indeed >likely they enjoy siring the little soldiers of darkness. Many demons would, but Demon Princes are as careful about giving out the Song of Fruition as their Angelic opposite numbers. Interbreeding with humanity *can* create excellent Hellsworn material, but they can also lead to Heaven-bound material, and then there's the third option. And the third option is *way* too random for most Demon Princes. Besides, they don't want Asmodeus coming to their place and randomly crushing their Servitors under rocks looking for who's going off script. >Basically though I think each Superior would have his/her own method of >dealing with angels who did engauge in corporal sex (one of my favorite >stories is how Michael found out about a pregnant gal and how he dealt with >it), sire children, and more importantly fall in love with a mortal. Mm. In the only broad example of this happening, the entire Choir of Angels was cast out of Heaven forevermore. And while lots of angels still bitch about Michael's being mistreated, or complain about Gabriel's ongoing problems or Eli being unfairly pursued, no one's regularly complaining about the fate of the Grigori, as near as I can tell. Even Novalis seems to accept they got their just desserts. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 17:55:12 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Six ideas for Yahweh On Sat, 27 May 2000, David Edelstein wrote: > "Rev. Pee Kitty" wrote: > > For an almost perfect take on this, see the first Marvel Secret Wars > > series. > > That's okay, Dave... it'll be all right... get it all out... I take it you read the series? Does your eloquently phrased email denote that you didn't like the series or that you don't agree that the Doom Vs. Beholder scenario is very similar to the Yahweh Vs. Creator scenario that was being discussed. If the former, I certainly won't argue... everyone's entitled to their own opinion. If the latter, perhaps you could elucidate a little more than just "" on why... - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! "Human germ!" -- Shrapnel (Decepticon), _Transformers: The Movie_ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 07:27:24 -0700 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: IN> Live Gaming (was: LRP in England) Liam Astley wrote: > > Take out the physical elements of live combat, and all you have is some > (rather > > boring) words. And you _have_ to take out the physical elements, or else > > people will get hurt. > > it depends on whether you play with idiots or not. i've been LRPing for nigh > on four years, and can only think of someone being hurt once, and that was > when they fell off a log during a talkey encounter :) It's not about idiots, it's about competency. You have people actually 'acting-out' fight scenes, they _both_ need to be able to do effective, safe stage-combat. Now, if every person in the LARP has the potential of getting involved in a fight (and even non-combatants can be attacked), that means that _every_single_person_ in the room needs to know what they're doing in a fight. Everyone. Idiots are the least of my worries. I'm simply concerned about people getting hurt because they don't know how to stage a fight - and face it, most people don't. Hell, I don't know that _I_ know how to stage a fight, and I've done some stage combat work. > > I'm (slowly) doing up some live ShadowRun rules for a friend. That's a > game > > where combat is very common - and again, I'm stripping it right down and > > de-emphasizing action, becaue it just doesn't work in a live context. > > yeah, i have had trouble in modern/future games when i've tried to make the > rules for guns fairly "realistic". at some point in the evening someone > would inevitably pull out a piece and five minutes later everyone's dead... Screw realism. It's not important. Fun is what's important. For that 'system', I'm simply dividing characters into 3 levels of competancy. Level 3 always beats level 2; level 2 always beats level 1. Within a level, you can flip a coin to see who wins. The loser gets hurt and has to step out for five minutes of medical attention from yours truly. Of course, this is not a true LARP system like Mind's Eye Theatre (or even my IN rules) - this is a freeform with pregen characters. If I were ever to write a _real_ Shadowrun system (and I'm not about to), I'd have to make things more flexible. But I'd still want to keep it as simple as possible. - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia Stop being so fucking happy! It makes me want to puke twenty years of cigarette tar directly into your mouth! - Spider Jerusalem, TRANSMETROPOLITAN #21 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 16:35:16 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Six ideas for Yahweh "Rev. Pee Kitty" wrote: > I take it you read the series? Does your eloquently phrased email denote > that you didn't like the series or that you don't agree that the Doom Vs. > Beholder scenario is very similar to the Yahweh Vs. Creator scenario that > was being discussed. The former. ("Secret Wars" was during the Jim Shooter era, IIRC.) Though granted, it wasn't nearly as retchworthy as Secret Wars II. But a few more years of crap like that was what finally drove me away from comic books. (Of course, cover prices that seemed to go up by about 50% per year also played a part.) As a comparison to In Nomine, I suppose it's no worse than any other comparison of a comic book to a game that's not based on a comic book. - -David ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1647 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.