From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Jun 6 20:56:19 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA14881 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 20:56:19 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id UAA00147 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 20:52:31 -0500 Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 20:52:31 -0500 Message-Id: <200006070152.UAA00147@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1663 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, June 6 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1663 In this digest: Re: IN> Human to Demon (Re: Karl Marx in Heaven/Hell) Re: IN> Human to Demon Fwd: RE: IN> Next Playtest? Re: IN> Human to Demon (Re: Karl Marx in Heaven/Hell) Re: IN> Human to Demon (Re: Karl Marx in Heaven/Hell) IN> Plot thingy needed! Re: IN> Human to Demon Re: IN> Plot thingy needed! Re: IN> Plot thingy needed! Re: IN> Human to Demon Re: IN> Human to Demon (Re: Karl Marx in Heaven/Hell) Re: IN> Human to Demon Re: IN> Plot thingy needed! Re: IN> Plot thingy needed! Re: IN> Human to Demon Re: IN> Love amongst Superiors (Sorry that it's long...) RE: IN> Next Playtest? Re: IN> Writing for Pyramid Re: IN> Writing for Pyramid Re: IN> Paul old boy Re: IN> Having fun with Words Re: IN> Oannes? RE: IN> Next Playtest? Re: IN> Love amongst Superiors (Sorry that it's long...) IN> Jack the Ripper IN> Marx IN> The Final Frontier IN> End game IN> Dominic and Destiny Re: IN> Writing for Pyramid ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 15:35:15 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Human to Demon (Re: Karl Marx in Heaven/Hell) ben wrote: > In In Nomine, is consciousness linked to Celestial Forces or > Ethereal Forces? I don't think it's spelled out, but since Perception is linked to Celestial Forces, I'd say consciousness is too. This means Remnants aren't really aware of anything, anymore. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 15:45:00 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Human to Demon At 9:18 AM -0700 6/6/00, Matthew W. wrote: >Archangel Beth wrote: >>>Humans can't become demons. The best that happens, a Prince rips the >Ethereal Forces [...]<< > >Actually, I never liked that a human's Ethereal forces couldn't be >cleanly stripped from him without any loss of memory or personality. This is to keep PCs in check from having humans be _virtually_ demonizable. Basically, if this could happen too easily, it would mess with the Out of Character feel of "no, humans cannot become celestials." But if you've got some player who'll just DIE if he can't have his demon remember perfectly being a human... You spineless ape! Can't you figure out that the thing to do is to _CHANGE THE RULES_? Do I have to spell it out for you every time? Canon is for bending! Breaking! Who's going to be weak, you or the canon?? (I'll have you know that's very cathartic.) Or you can have it happen "just once" on the Princely equivalent of an Infernal Intervention, or whatever other excuse you want. - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. But now with a computer desk! Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 15:55:37 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Fwd: RE: IN> Next Playtest? Remember -- s u b scribe to the in_nomine_posters-l to post from multible accounts! >From: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 09:34:54 -0500 >To: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from [Jason Schneiderman ] > >Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 10:35:09 -0400 >From: Jason Schneiderman >Subject: RE: IN> Next Playtest? > >>Show of hands: Who here reads GAMES Magazine? >> >>OK, put your hands down. They've reviewed our stuff favorably in the past, >>including reviews of Tile Chess and Chez Geek in the last two issues. So >>why don't we advertise with them? (Answer: I don't know either. But we plan >>to, as soon as we get their rate sheet.) > >This is, upon consideration, a very good idea. > >>Second show of hands: Who here thinks Etrigan would make a cool IN Prince? >> >>Hands down again. > >This is, upon consideration, a very bad idea. Mixing intellectual >properties like that is bound to make more people cringe than anything >else. (Anyone here recall the X-Men/Star Trek Crossover series of a few >years back?) It's like the fan adaptations of Xena for L5R or Highlander >for the World of Darkness. It's entertaining to speculate upon, but... > >Plus, in the purest fanboy sense, wasn't Etrigan bound to that mortal? >(Jason Blood? Not certain.) Not exactly Prince material. > >Jason Schneiderman > > >* * * * * >"I'm addicted to stress that's the way that I get things done if I'm not >underpressure then I sleep too long and I hang around like a bum and I >think I'm going nowhere and that makes me nervous..." > >Jason Schneiderman >jadasc@ma.ultranet.com > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 16:02:16 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Human to Demon (Re: Karl Marx in Heaven/Hell) At 1:29 PM -0600 6/6/00, ben wrote: >> Humans can't become demons. The best that happens, a Prince rips the >> Ethereal Forces out of the human and glues them onto a demonling, >> causing the result of a demon who has some (usually a bit vague and/or >> damaged) memories of being a human. But the human soul who thus >> donates the Forces is dead and destroyed and not coming back. > >In In Nomine, is consciousness linked to Celestial Forces or Ethereal >Forces? Yes. Observe Remnants, but also observe the effects of losing all Ethereal Forces, in the main book combat chapter. (ack, wigglebaby!) - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. But now with a computer desk! Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 15:48:52 -0400 From: "Galen G. Silversmith" Subject: Re: IN> Human to Demon (Re: Karl Marx in Heaven/Hell) > Return-Path: earlw@mc.com > > In In Nomine, is consciousness linked to Celestial Forces or > > Ethereal Forces? > I don't think it's spelled out, but since Perception is linked > to Celestial Forces, I'd say consciousness is too. This means > Remnants aren't really aware of anything, anymore. The implications I've gotten from the rulebook and FM, and a few other snippets here and there is that memory and personality are (mostly) attached to the ethereal forces while consciousness and awareness are (mostly) attached to celestial. Which means, to me, if you took a powerful soldier (or other human), stripped them of their celestial and ethereal forces, mashed them together with enough physical forces, and mold them into a celestial you'll almost have moved a human to a celestial. Something will have been lost in transit, but I'm not sure what. Regardless, this certainly is not cannon and is all IMO. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 13:52:08 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: IN> Plot thingy needed! I'm rolling my campaign towards an end-game, and need a little bit of plot advice. An entity which appears to be Uriel and has entities which appear to be Tsayadim has been spotted by the characters. Uriel and the Tsayadim attacked the characters (all angels), but they managed to thwart him. Also present was the corporeal manifestation of Kali, an Ethereal, and (the players do not know this) Kobal, who has been having the time of his life riding around Tehran on a Harley-Davidson, sporting dark sunglasses and a tan trenchcoat ("He's got to check his notes."), trying to blow things up. Hmm, maybe I can have Vapula give Kobal a zap-gun or two... The whole idea is Kobal's; he's engineering an apocalpse with the help of Blandine's Ethereal pals. He's managed to get people to dream up a Uriel, helped bring that Uriel out of the dream, and gave it enough Essence and power to make it Really Mean. Now he'd like to get that Uriel into Heaven to stage a revolt. It'd be so cool. Even cooler if Kobal got his hands on a Tsayadim. If the Tsayadim was made with one of Uriel's forces, maybe Kobal could strip that force and give it to his Ethereal construct, making it think it really *is* Uriel... sort of. You have to admit, Ethereals invading Heaven behind an Ethereal duplicate of Uriel is pretty funny. It's even funnier if you carefully hide things to the point where *real* Tsayadim and *real* Angels side with the duplicate. Can Ethereals get into Heaven? Can Kobal manage to get things so that an angel might be fooled into believing the duplicate? If no, can someone suggest a game thingy that will let them? Unfortunately, the Archangels Michael and Gabriel were present and Michael believes the Uriel is a fake. Is there any way Dominic and Laurance, or maybe some other Archangels, might be fooled into believing the Uriel is real? If so, what are the ramifications of this? I know there are a few Ethereals who almost equal to Angelic Superiors in power; any suggestions as to any who would work well showing up on the battlefield? Any suggestions for little Ethereals to oppose the party? Does anyone think that an army of Ethereal Gods and entities might stand a chance against Heaven? Is there any way the characters could try to find the *real* Uriel, and would this necessarily be a Good Idea? I plan to include Eric's Zactartol in the plot as the original instigator of the entire idea. "You want me to *make* a Uriel, rally the Ethereals and invade Heaven while we quickly fulfill seven prophecies and get seven horns blown?" "Well, there's gonna be some assembly required, but the idea's solid, boss." Any ideas would be appreciated. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 16:02:50 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Human to Demon This brings up the nice question of what constitutes identity. Suppose a Prince could re-configure the Forces of a damned soul into an imp, say, without loss of memory or skills. It could still be roleplayed as no longer the same being, but a sort of horrible, baffling *heir* of the original being. The thing has the same memories and skills. What else goes into personality? Emotional attitudes are the main thing to come to my mind. Suppose the old ones all fall away. What was a damned soul -- selfish enough to start with -- is now a devil and cares for NOTHING but its own gain, regarding all former attachments and interests as nothing but possibly useful resources. But it would still talk and act a lot like this person who used to kind of like you, perhaps. Very nasty shift. It gets worse if the soul is used to make a full demon, since these, like angels, can be played as tightly focused on their function, thus stripping away even more of the formerly human interest. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 16:24:41 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Plot thingy needed! At 1:52 PM -0600 6/6/00, ben wrote: >Can Ethereals get into Heaven? Not in canon. (Karakash -- this is in the FAQ, right? It came up last month, too.) >Can Kobal manage to get things so that an >angel might be fooled into believing the duplicate? Depends on the angel and even with the tough cases, how hard they were hit with Ethereal Charm. (Duhhhhhhhh, Uriel!) >If no, can someone suggest a game thingy that will let them? Cool Superior Relics always work. SAtorm the the ethereal half of Blandine's Tower -- that'll be good for a laugh even if they can['t make it through to Heaven. >Unfortunately, the Archangels Michael and Gabriel were present and Michael >believes the Uriel is a fake. Is there any way Dominic and Laurance, or >maybe some other Archangels, might be fooled into believing the Uriel is >real? If so, what are the ramifications of this? Laurence might be foolable, but Dominic? He might have his resonance fuzzed by Kobal's invlvement -- which would probably not register as different from a uriel fuzsing... Laurence might get twitchy if "his creator" was trying to fuzz _his_ honor resonance, though. >Is there any way the characters could try to find the *real* Uriel, and >would this necessarily be a Good Idea? Total GM option. I wouldn't allow even trying it in _my_ game -- unless you believe one of the rumors (from the forthcoming S3) that Uriel was nbot "Called UP" but was instead imprisoned... - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. But now with a computer desk! Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 16:13:42 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Plot thingy needed! According to canon, Ethereals cannot enter the Celestial Plane. But there is the Song of Projection. Also, Kobal could use this stolen Uriel Force you mention to re-model the Ethereal Uriel into a Celestial. (Cf. the thread on turning damned souls into demons.) It wouldn't be the same being, but does Kobal care? His best bet would probably be to make it into a balseraph that THINKS it's Uriel, since Uriel was a seraph before he was the first Malakite, and balseraphs are good at self-delusion. Of course, demons get Son-burn from the Light of Heaven... How *long* does this Faux Uriel have to be in Heaven? Perhaps Kobal could protect him, if he entered Heaven with him ... which is more gall and less sanity than I think even Kobal has. Or you could scrap canon. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 16:20:15 -0400 From: "Galen G. Silversmith" Subject: Re: IN> Human to Demon > Return-Path: earlw@mc.com > This brings up the nice question of what constitutes identity. > Suppose a Prince could re-configure the Forces of a damned soul > into an imp, say, without loss of memory or skills. It could > still be roleplayed as no longer the same being, but a sort of > horrible, baffling *heir* of the original being. Lets consider a flip-side of this. Could a Archangel save a redeemed undead like this? They have no soul; upon their physical deaths, they are obliterated. Could an AA (Novalis or Baladine, most likely), strip the apropriate forces from the creature and bind them into something new? Something with a soul, and a true chance at redemption? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 16:15:35 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Human to Demon (Re: Karl Marx in Heaven/Hell) At 3:48 PM -0400 6/6/00, Galen G. Silversmith wrote: > >Which means, to me, if you took a powerful soldier (or other human), >stripped them of their celestial and ethereal forces, mashed them together >with enough physical forces, and mold them into a celestial you'll almost >have moved a human to a celestial. Something will have been lost in >transit, but I'm not sure what. Regardless, this certainly is not cannon >and is all IMO. Actually, I'm working on a nearly-unsaleable-to-Pyramid article on what would be lost, and the difference between Nine Forces and a Celestial. So, when Pyramid rejects it I'll toss it up on the Web Site. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 16:43:30 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Human to Demon Galen G. Silversmith wrote: > Could a Archangel save a redeemed undead like this? > They have no soul; upon their physical deaths, they are > obliterated. Could an AA (Novalis or Baladine, most likely), > strip the apropriate forces from the creature and bind them into > something new? Something with a soul, and a true chance at > redemption? There is published at least one tragic vampire who's had a change of heart and works for Heaven with no chance of getting there. This might be the best thing he could hope for, if he got tired enough of his identity. Since the only things Superiors can make are Celestials of their own alignment or Ethereals, the likeliest product of such a recycling would be a reliever, who wouldn't need redemption, already being a creature of Heaven. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 16:43:28 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Plot thingy needed! >Can Ethereals get into Heaven? Can Kobal manage to get things so that an >angel might be fooled into believing the duplicate? > >If no, can someone suggest a game thingy that will let them? > Okay, check this out. 1) It's canon that demons can get into Heaven, and even go undetected for a while, if and only if Kronos lends one of his Forces to the demon (Heaven and Hell, pg. 60). Remember, Kronos is the only Prince who's still connected to the Symphony, so his Forces can mask the symphonic disturbance normally generated by a demonic entry into Heaven. 2) It's also canon that Kobal hates, hates, hatees Kronos, who usurped his position by Lucifer's side (and who's also *sooooo* boring). The feeling, of course, is entirely mutual. 3) So... why not have Kobal get hold of Kronos' Forces, and graft it onto the faux Uriel? This way you can get him into Heaven and still be consistent with canon. And it's just the sort of thing Kobal would do; if he can start Armageddon *and* make his great rival look stupid, he's going to just bust a gut. This could happen any number of ways... Kronos gives a Force to a favored servitor who's ambushed by Kobal, Kobal arranges for Kronos to give the Force to a Kobalite who's disguised as a Servitor of Fate, Kobal cuts a special deal with Valefor (steal a Force from a fellow Prince, there's a challenge)... you name it. It also adds a possible plot twist: Kronos suspects what happened, and has a task force on the trail of the missing Force. The Fate demons will eventually catch up with the false Uriel, and tangle with the PCs. They _should_ work together, but they probably won't... especially if Kobal gets involved; he'd probably think it incredibly funny to have the PCs and the Faters chopping each other up. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 18:09:50 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Plot thingy needed! At 15:52 -0400 6/6/00, ben wrote: [nasty, but neat, plot omitted] >Can Ethereals get into Heaven? Definitely not on their own. Maybe a Superior could bring one in, or send one in. You might be able to get Valefor to do it -- he's apparently gotten into Heaven, and if anyone could get around the rules, he probably could. Or maybe Lilith -- she might decide to take offense at Heaven's barriering out the Ethereals, and help out, or give someone a relic that frees them from this restriction. > Can Kobal manage to get things so that an >angel might be fooled into believing the duplicate? Ordinary angels? ...probably not too hard, as long as a) the duplicate *thinks* it's Uriel, and b) has been behaving roughly appropriately to Uriel. Superior resonance-fuzzing (from Kobal's direct involvement) would probably handle most of the rest. Angels don't normally expect to resonate Archangels, anyway, at least in my campaign. >If no, can someone suggest a game thingy that will let them? Any Superior-made relic designed for the purpose is probably fine. Superiors can get away with a *lot*, if the GM wants them to. >Unfortunately, the Archangels Michael and Gabriel were present and Michael >believes the Uriel is a fake. Is there any way Dominic and Laurance, or >maybe some other Archangels, might be fooled into believing the Uriel is >real? If so, what are the ramifications of this? Fooling Archangels is pretty hard, especially Dominic. Even the others would probably have known the real Uriel too well to be fooled for long. I'd say the best way to fool them would be to have the pseudo-Uriel stay out of their direct sight. A few AAs (notably Laurence) might be sufficiently inclined to wishful thinking that he could perhaps be faked along for a little while, especially if "Uriel" showed up to help him when he was having a little trouble, say with Baal... Kobal wouldn't mind sicing Laurence on Baal, if it couldn't be traced to him. >I know there are a few Ethereals who almost equal to Angelic Superiors in >power; *Used* to be; I don't think any of them come close in the modern day. Most of the ethereal gods are not much better than the average angel, as I understand canon. > any suggestions as to any who would work well showing up on the >battlefield? Well, ethereal-Pokemon probably gets lots of Essence these days, but he probably wouldn't fit the tone of the plot.... > Any suggestions for little Ethereals to oppose the party? Just about any of them. Kitsune (from Japanese myth) would probably be happy enough to help out Kobal. Any of the "trickster" gods would be possible, like Raven or Hermes. >Does anyone think that an army of Ethereal Gods and entities might stand a >chance against Heaven? Nope. Uriel, more or less alone, was wiping the floor with them; it doesn't make a lot of sense that they could do better now against Heaven as a whole. On the other hand, trickery might be more effective. But I don't think any sort of direct assault would make sense to anyone, unless you diverge from canon severely. (Of course, Kobal might scam them into thinking that they could do it somehow, as some kind of diversion. And they'd probably go for a fake attack followed by a quick retreat, if there was enough in it for them. But it would have to be worth risking another purity crusade starting up. >Is there any way the characters could try to find the *real* Uriel, and >would this necessarily be a Good Idea? This is probably way into CDaU in canon; he's supposedly in the Higher Heavens, and "you can't get there from here" anymore. Or at least get back. But it was possible at one time, apparently. Also, if God stashed Uriel somewhere else (for whatever ineffable reason), they might be able to do something. Maybe God stuck him with guarding Eden or something; for Uriel, that might be either a reward or a punishment. Or both. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 18:47:08 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Human to Demon At 16:20 -0400 6/6/00, Galen G. Silversmith wrote: >> Return-Path: earlw@mc.com >> This brings up the nice question of what constitutes identity. >> Suppose a Prince could re-configure the Forces of a damned soul >> into an imp, say, without loss of memory or skills. It could >> still be roleplayed as no longer the same being, but a sort of >> horrible, baffling *heir* of the original being. > >Lets consider a flip-side of this. > >Could a Archangel save a redeemed undead like this? >They have no soul; upon their physical deaths, they are >obliterated. If I recall correctly, undead *do* have a soul (except for zombis), it's just bound to their corporeal vessel and dissipates upon death. > Could an AA (Novalis or Baladine, most likely), >strip the apropriate forces from the creature and bind them into >something new? Something with a soul, and a true chance at >redemption? You could, I suppose, but I suspect most angels would view the result as being very similar to the classic horror-movie version of Frankenstein's monster. I.e., it would be about as likely as an AA creating an undead in the first place. I'm *sure* Dominic would have some questions.... It's sort of "We had to destroy the soul to save it." Wouldn't compute for angels.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 15:51:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Love amongst Superiors (Sorry that it's long...) Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 13:43:29 -0500From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Love amongst Superiors (Sorry that it's long...)Moe Lane wrote: >> Of course, if you just dump Paul completely >>(something that I do in my own personal theology), >I'm not sure what Paul had to do with it, since the >two scriptures quoted were from a Gospel, which no >one ascribes to Paul, and from Hebrews, which doesn't >claim to be by Paul, and which is now ascribed to >Paul only by the most conservative. Such as my original teachers of the Bible (hardline fundamentalist Protestants). My apologies: I'm behind on my technical reading*, and was thus unaware that the authorship of Hebrews is currently contested. Morgan (FAW) *Or never read accurate journals to begin with. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 09:03:31 +1000 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: RE: IN> Next Playtest? Andrew wrote: > Agreed. When we get the reprint copies of the IN rules, I intend > to do just > that. Sending out copies of the supplements while the core book is OOP > seems a little counterproductive to me. Unless you guys did a major re-organisation job for the reprint (which I'm pretty sure didn't happen), this plan seems counter productive to me. We list members all know (and have much discussed) the poor organisation and confusing nature of the main rulebook, but now you want to send it to reviewers so they can publicly tell everyone out there that In Nomine is badly organised, confusing, has some good ideas, but largely avoid it? Sounds like something that would be better saved for the 2nd ed. I understand what you're trying to do, but giving reviewers copies of a frustrating rulebook is asking for bad publicity, IMO. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: 6 Jun 2000 16:03:59 -0700 From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Writing for Pyramid On Tue, 06 June 2000, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Moderately well-spaced chunks, though, eh? A whole bunch of little Considering that I would be writing something, posting it, then writing the next installment before posting -that-, yes. > Ya get my drift, or do I hafta send my Habbalah around ta rough > ya up? Jesus, Beth, I've been on this list since summer '97. I KNOW list etiquette. Thanks for the vote of confidence. - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 17:15:53 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> Writing for Pyramid > > Ya get my drift, or do I hafta send my Habbalah around ta rough > > ya up? > > Jesus, Beth, I've been on this list since summer '97. I KNOW list etiquette. > Thanks for the vote of confidence. Consider the lurkers! > -- Casca Ben ------------------------------ Date: 6 Jun 2000 16:32:44 -0700 From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Paul old boy On Tue, 06 June 2000, "Charles Phipps" wrote: > One wonders that however the fact remains that even Peter holiest of the > holy and head of the Church bowed down to Paul's wisdom in at least one > case. Be that as it may, we have little to no evidence in his epistles that Paul was acting as a Prophet, and therefore the literality of his words are left to the conscience of each believer. > In any case it's a common belief amongst hard line Catholics that Paul > replaced Judas as the 12th apostle (I disagree with such a strange > statement) by having a apostle brought forth from a traitor instead of vice > versa. Strange, considering that it says in the book of Acts that Mattias replaced Judas. (It was a toss-up between him or Barsabbas, and Matthias got the winning straw.) > That's probably though what Laurence believes. I'm inclined to say that Laurence isn't as concerned with these things as humans are. We obsess over some of the most trival things.... - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 19:34:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Having fun with Words > But wouldn't a Dictionary and Thesaurus be better choices? Or the > Gustav Angel reference? I mean, you don't need *much* to know what's > a good Angelic Word, and almost *anything* makes a good Demonic one. Merriam Webster is online. www.m-w.com. And it's free! FREE! FREE!!! - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 19:36:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Oannes? > > (But not pot=holders, which is another in-joke altogether, but rather > > funny when one's been awake since 4:30 am.) > > Even when one's been up since 10:30 AM. :) In other news Mislead Archangel of Stone, David, has been seen wearing various articles of clothing apparently fashioned from potholders. He has been quoted as saying "I've never worn clothing before, but these... What do you call 'em? Potholders... are really comfy. I'm no longer cold!" He now, stubbornly refuses to take them off. - Allen Ano, on the Great Holy War Pot-Holder Incident - - em ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 18:53:23 -0500 From: Andrew Hackard Subject: RE: IN> Next Playtest? >Unless you guys did a major re-organisation job for the reprint (which I'm >pretty sure didn't happen), I couldn't tell you -- I'm not sure that the information on the reprint has even been finalized yet. >this plan seems counter productive to me. We >list members all know (and have much discussed) the poor organisation and >confusing nature of the main rulebook, but now you want to send it to >reviewers so they can publicly tell everyone out there that In Nomine is >badly organised, confusing, has some good ideas, but largely avoid it? No, that's not why I want to send the book to reviewers. I want to send the book to reviewers so that, when we send them new IN releases, they aren't saying "This looks like it might be fun, but without the core rules I couldn't tell you." >Sounds like something that would be better saved for the 2nd ed. To be frank, I don't want to wait that long. The reprint removes a lot of the impetus to do a second edition, which is unfortunate but not as unfortunate, IMO, as leaving the core IN rules out of print for the better part of a year. That's what a second edition would take. The other alternative is sending out new IN books along with copies of GURPS IN. It seemed pretty evident, based on discussions here and on Pyramid, that most IN fans would consider that a subpar solution to the dilemma. - -- Andrew Hackard /\ "My money and my Promotional Writer /()\ [CENSORED] go to Steve Jackson Games / \ Illuminati University" andrew@sjgames.com /______\ ------------------------------ Date: 6 Jun 2000 16:58:24 -0700 From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Love amongst Superiors (Sorry that it's long...) On Tue, 06 June 2000, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > Paul made a very clear claim to be an apostle, on the basis > of his encounter with the risen Christ on the road to Damascus. > (Acts (:1-16) > > And, as a matter of fact, he does do miracles. He strikes a > sorceror blind in Acts 13:8-11 and heals a man in Acts 14:8-11. Blarg. This is what I get for reading Acts all at once, late at night. :) Thanks for the correction, Earl. - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 21:12:58 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Jack the Ripper Inspired by an old Star Trek Episode, The Movie Fallen, and arguably most stolen from for RPG's event in history-I've decided to do a adventure for In Nomine for my Celestials to track down the Whitechapel killer. I've divided the adventure into two parts with the First part of the adventure taking place in London during the events in question as the group has met together to solve the case....and hopefully drive the Ripper away for a time. The next part of the adventure taking place during modern day times where serial killers have become almost passe in the context of the Ripper's initial sensationalism. Hopefully in this story part the Celestials will put a more permanent end to the diabolical. For the purposes of the story I'm making the Ripper a Shedim as I think it makes the most sense but I'm having trouble estimating exactly how powerful he should be in modern day society, what attunements he'll have, and the like. For the purposes of the adventure (they'res 3 strating level players-2 of which who play in the gaslight era) I'm going to have the Ripper be a starting character I think in Victorian age but after that...no clue. I'd appreciate some help with the stats as if you hadn't guessed by my posts-I'm new at Refeering IN. I'm thinking Saminga is his prince. Serial kilers and all that. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 21:22:15 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Marx I like your Marx idea and I can see him ending up in Heaven and trying to get back down as a Saint...afterwards thus armed with his new knowledge-goes rogue. :-) Probably a servant of Marc or Janus. Though the former is doing it mainly to prove himself right. >Anyway, to throw some wood on this IN Marxism discussion, what do you think would be the final destination >and fate of the other fathers of Communism: Engles, Lenin, Stalin, Ho Chi Min, and, the other big M, Mao >Zedong? Engles I see as probably following Marx or going to Heaven-I don't see him as doing much in my opinion. Lenin-I see as achieving his fate...and perhaps his destiny. It's hard to hate the man but there was little idealism in his revenge against the monarchy of Russia. Reincarnate him I say... Stalin I say was never human. No being on Earth I think could..it's hard to believe in Real life he was!...consistantly alter the truth to the point of where he himself didn't believe it otherwise. He never killed anyone but those he kept around him butchered millions... The man was a Balseraph of Baal. Likely a Baron in hell now...or the Demon Word of Collectivization, Totalatarianism, The Iron Sickle, or the like. Maybe The Soviet Union's fall happened if (God willing) such a creature was destroyed by Malakim. Ho Chi Minn and Mao I see both as having achieved their fates under Baal to get their untapped lands under the foot of Celestial politics. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 21:33:38 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> The Final Frontier "Like, let there be light man." - -Eli and it was good. 1:) The Sun Lucifer's greatest creation-the Morning star which united the Celestial world with the Symphony and gives them all their essence every morning. He hates it to this day and thus all his followers gain strength for seeing the monument destroyed. Gabrielle I think covers it or Rapheal (explaining where he's been) since then. 2:) The Moons and Planetoids David been making these for rugged manly (or womanly-I don't think he's sexist) astronauts to take someday. 3:) Stars Gaby again. Hey. 4:) The Solar systems and Galaxies: Jean-He controls gravitic pull and the slow tilt of the universe. He's annoyed as hell for some reason everything is spinning closer together for some reason. (Kobal's doing IMHO) 5:) Growth of the Universe "Yo!"-Eli 6:) Supernovas and Comets Belial-he just loves mucking up creation. David hates what he did to Jupiter. (Kobal arranged it-gave him a black eye it did) 7:) Life on other planets Ethereal life that has yet to be exterminated by Uriel...mainly because it came about after his existence...Jordi is I think quietly gardening with Novalis other worlds to serve Humanity...or not and are hoping Dominic will ignore it. 8:) The end of the universe The universe when it is ended...disturbingly enough....goes directly into the Far Marches at which point you can navigate to either heaven or Hell. Some speculate that when the universe (or Eli) runs out of essence...the universe will slingshot back and fade into the mists of the Ethereal plane it was spawned from....or spawned the Ethereals.... - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 21:35:11 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> End game >I have just been hit by God's Own Inspiration Mallet. I haven't been able to stop thinking about Endgame -all >day-, and the ideas just keep flowing... Ah Eli! ANOTHER ELI SIGHTING! Please send me a copy when your done. tcp@zoomnet.net If you wouldn't mind. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 21:40:07 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Dominic and Destiny >>>>The Symphony mathmatically equals U >> >Afraid I don't get the reference. >> Neither does Yves. >> When Eli heard it...he just laughed and smirked. >> Having figured it out a long time ago. >*sigh* So are you going to tell us, or just be cryptic? Very well it means the universe ultimately equals exactly what you make of it. God's greatest gift to us was the ability to choose to follow where we want to go and what we want to do when we get there....plus to leave whenever we get bored.... See wouldn't it have been much more fun if you had guessed? Yves needless to say grumbled and is going to recheck his math for the next few billion years. >You're forgiven. Remember, Dominic hangs out with Laurence, of all people. If Dom started acting funny, I >think his Malakite buddy would tell him. Unless he's still pining for Sleeping beuty. >I also think Dom checks himself for Dissonance and Discord on a regular basis. >Just to make sure. Do I look dissonant or feel it Sparky? (his trusty reliever gavel) "No sir." >Dangerous in what way? If God isn't going to intervene next time.... then Dominic's safety net went bye bye >Humans do it, too. Worse, they often do it without -thinking-. Yep! Angels aren't so differnet from us then. - - -- Casca ------------------------------ Date: 6 Jun 2000 18:51:57 -0700 From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Writing for Pyramid On Tue, 06 June 2000, "ben" wrote: > > Thanks for the vote of confidence. > > Consider the lurkers! Yes, consider the lurkers: they neither toil nor post, and therefore don't need to be told since they rarely contribute anything. And last I checked, that selfsame advice about not posting huge amounts was on the list faq. Frankly, I'm peeved to have been threatened by Habbalah (jokingly or no), when not only have I never done such a thing, neither have I seen it happen. Hell, during the glory days of Dark Victory, list activity was busy -but not unreasonable-. Beth, I think you're taking this Djinn Princess thing too far. - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1663 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.