From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Jun 11 13:33:04 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA15077 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 13:33:04 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id OAA10136 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 14:11:14 -0500 Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 14:11:14 -0500 Message-Id: <200006111911.OAA10136@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1671 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, June 11 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1671 In this digest: Re: IN> IN Rant 1 - The Problems Re: IN> IN Rant 1 - The Problems Re: IN> IN Rant 1 - The Problems Re: IN> IN Rant 1 - The Problems Re: IN> IN Rant 1 - The Problems Re: IN> IN Rant 1 - The Problems Re: IN> IN Rant 1 - The Problems IN> Fwd: Some stuff IN> [ADMIN] Welcome to in_nomine-l ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 12:04:08 -0400 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> IN Rant 1 - The Problems > Big Problem 1 - Word Forces suck. There should be no such mechanic. If >something like this needed to be on a sheet, no player should ever be >trusted to earn a Word. Only the GM should track how well a Word does, but >the celestial will just *know* when it's waxing or waning. The one time I had a Word bound played I kept track of their Word forces, potential rites and powers and reveiled them bit by bit. I like the mechanics of it, but I do think it worked better because I hid the mechanic from the player. > Big Problem 3 - Archangels and Demon Princes should not be Gods. I disagree. I think reducing them to a scale anywhere near the player one is silly. Its the equivellent of doing that with the Antidelluvians of Vampire. There are things that can approach them, the greatest ethereal gods, major Word bound celestials and (depending on how you play) master sorcerers. I have only two real problems with the game. The first kind of agrees with you, humans are unberably weak. This grows out of the mechanics, being so simplistic its hard to build inbetween power levels. My second problem has to do with Lucifer not being the first born in canon. That really, really, really bothers me. However I think that GURPS IN will probably be the game you're looking for. GURPS is much more tweakable than IN, in terms of the system. One can even run Superior level games with mechanics (I once played a 1000 point wizerd in GURPS, talk about obscene power), or more precesily control their strengths and weaknesses. Timothy, Angel of Rambling Ofanite of Creation ArchRival of Mathus ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 12:15:18 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> IN Rant 1 - The Problems At 12:04 PM -0400 6/11/00, Tim Groth wrote: >My second problem has >to do with Lucifer not being the first born in canon. That really, really, >really bothers me. There is some Scholarship that suggests that Michael was first, actually, so it's not simply Derek Pearcy declaring it. It depends on the tradition you're looking for. Lucifer *is* the First of the Fallen, and the Lightbringer, so that's something, I'd think. Then again, you can always change it in your Game. (Man, I need some sleep.) - -- Eric Alfred Burns | in-sabre@annotations.com | Writer - Manager - IT Type - Poet Boy - In Nomine Freelancer ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 10:39:00 -0600 From: "Chris" Subject: Re: IN> IN Rant 1 - The Problems - ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Edelstein" To: Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 9:13 AM Subject: Re: IN> IN Rant 1 - The Problems > >>>The more> I tried to support and justify some of his complaints, we eventually fell to > > nearly screaming > > Sounds like one or both of you are being awfully immature. > > -David > Well, it started out as a debate, but I realized I wasn't going to change his mind on all of it, so I backed off and declared, "We'll just agree to disagree on this one." Quite frankly, I was surprised by the vehemence he had for his views. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 10:57:20 -0600 From: "Chris" Subject: Re: IN> IN Rant 1 - The Problems - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Groth" To: Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 10:04 AM Subject: Re: IN> IN Rant 1 - The Problems > > Big Problem 1 - Word Forces suck. There should be no such mechanic. If > >something like this needed to be on a sheet, no player should ever be > >trusted to earn a Word. Only the GM should track how well a Word does, but > >the celestial will just *know* when it's waxing or waning. > > The one time I had a Word bound played I kept track of their Word forces, > potential rites and powers and reveiled them bit by bit. I like the > mechanics of it, but I do think it worked better because I hid the mechanic > from the player. > I'm really hoping to do this with another group. I for one, like Word Forces. I'm looking forward to it, actually. > > Big Problem 3 - Archangels and Demon Princes should not be Gods. > > I disagree. I think reducing them to a scale anywhere near the player one > is silly. Its the equivellent of doing that with the Antidelluvians of > Vampire. There are things that can approach them, the greatest ethereal > gods, major Word bound celestials and (depending on how you play) master > sorcerers. > Eh, for me, it's hard to say. I'm really heavy into the roleplaying aspects of a game. The idea someone could take down an AA or DP isn't one I want to perpetuate by any means. But I could see running a sort of Prophecy-esque type game where everyone has a Word and a really cool ability (like bringing back the dead or making spiffy illusions) like the Prophecy movies. Then it becomes a game of wits as angels and demons compete for real dominance over the Symphony. An AA/DP would be acknowledged as powerful, not only by the tricks they've earned by supporting their Word, but anyone could join their ranks with the simple acknowledgement from other Superior-level beings, not by being imbued by infinite cosmic power by the Serpahim Council or Lucifer. To me, it's an experiment worth trying once. To my friend, it's a neccessity. :::Sigh::: > I have only two real problems with the game. The first kind of agrees with > you, humans are unberably weak. This grows out of the mechanics, being so > simplistic its hard to build inbetween power levels. My second problem has > to do with Lucifer not being the first born in canon. That really, really, > really bothers me. > Well, it's my friends view of things. I think humans can inherantly outdo any celestial. It's not a matter of making them go squish. I know that humans are the *reason* for the War. Humans have two huge advantages over celestials (and ethereals for that matter): One, they belong in the world, whereas celestials and ethereals don't. Two, humans have more inherant knowledge of how to live in the world, and celestials have to take a much longer time than humans to get to that same level. It's great for a celestial to know how to be a teacher, but even a role/6 pales in comparison to a human's real life. As for Lucifer not being first. It bugs me too. So I went out of canon and declared he was first and saved myself the trouble. > However I think that GURPS IN will probably be the game you're looking for. > GURPS is much more tweakable than IN, in terms of the system. One can even > run Superior level games with mechanics (I once played a 1000 point wizerd > in GURPS, talk about obscene power), or more precesily control their > strengths and weaknesses. > I have a feeling you're right, but I'm gonna have some real problems with it. :::Sigh::: I really wish I figured out how to post to the playtest list when it was around for GURPS IN so I could've addressed it then... But live and learn. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 11:03:57 -0600 From: "Chris" Subject: Re: IN> IN Rant 1 - The Problems - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Whistling in the Dark" To: Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 3:27 AM Subject: Re: IN> IN Rant 1 - The Problems > If your friend wants to go off killing Superiors and other totally > Munchkinoid Tricks, tell him to play. To fight for a Word. To > strengthen his Words and let them grow. Then tell him that after a > few hundred years of playing, assuming you and he live that long, he > can possibly become a Superior himself and go hunting. In the > meantime, if the opposition that's set up for him isn't tough enough, > bury him in Calabim. > I once put him up against 3 fairly large Calabim of Hardcore with a big boom box playing lots of hard metal. He was a Mercurian. Luckily for him, his Malakite companion was there to help out. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 11:07:00 -0600 From: "Chris" Subject: Re: IN> IN Rant 1 - The Problems - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth McCoy" To: Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 4:00 AM Subject: Re: IN> IN Rant 1 - The Problems > As for the rest... Well, after being up since 330am with insomnia while > the new baby was _sleeping peacefully_, I'm inclined to go into a > cathartic Habbalite mode and say: "Look, you spineless monkey, if you > like the setting at all, then tweak what you don't like and ignore the > canon. Are you a slave to people who don't know what _you_ like or > have you got the guts to make the changes _you_ want? If you can't do > that, then have the backbone to cope with your shiftless lazy ways! > Or are you a wimp?" > > (Oh, man, Habbalah are wonderful for taking a grump and expanding it > to new heights, far beyond what one would really say...) > Oh absolutely, positively, true. I like Habbalah. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 11:11:18 -0600 From: "Chris" Subject: Re: IN> IN Rant 1 - The Problems - ----- Original Message ----- From: "BDP" To: Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 7:08 AM Subject: Re: IN> IN Rant 1 - The Problems > >>The very idea of beings of such huge power existing is disturbing. The > idea > >>that *nothing* can realistically take them on and hope to succeed is very > >>disappointing. > > > >I'm curious as to why your friend thinks this could possibly be > >disappointing. Even Advanced Dungeons and Dragons pulled back from > >the idea of giving Gods hit points. There are things that the > >characters *shouldn't* be able to stop, unless it's such a totally > >munchkined out game that it isn't funny. > > > On the other hand, while I would never run this as the main plot of a game, > a chronicle which lasts for several years and builds up to the premise where > a party of now-very-experienced PCs (who were, as per the setting of the > game, amongst the most promising servitors of their Superiors to begin with, > after all) joins together to take down a single enemy Superior is not > necessarily Munchkin, merely Epic and Grandiose. Unless, of course, you are > predefining Munchkin that way. > Truth be told, I was actually working out some good Superior-level rule type stuff so let my players be a Superior and play that side of things for a while. First thing they came up with on their agenda - kill Belial and save Gabriel from her madness. They used the events in Final Trumpet as their justification. "If we don't destroy Belial now, he'll be a the forefront of the gang that'll show up to kill Gabriel and then we're all in trouble." I like epic level games. A lot. It's not munchkin, just a lot of fun to play a big role. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 14:55:21 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Fwd: Some stuff >From: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 13:07:10 -0500 >To: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Admin request of type /\buns\w*b/i at line 6 (i.e., it thought it saw an u n s u b s c r i b e request. *sigh* >From: "mink" >Subject: Some stuff >Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 19:08:18 +0100 > >Once more i need help and you folks are always great for giving good advice >so heres some posers for y'all. >This 1st one is really for Beth, what are the NO NOs for this list, you >mentioned the music.tv thing but what else, if you could private email the >answer to me it would save me from putting stuff on to the forum and getting >u n s u b s c i b e d fir doing a bad thing. >OK now on to the other stuff.. >A) Do celestials need to sleep and eat, what about the vessals.. do they >need food and such like, i would look in my books but they're at a players >house. >B) Is it just me or is the lilim ability from Valefor just a bit powerful... >C) Does _anyone_ know why a Mummy was used as the demon charecter in the >main rule book, surely a demon would have been better... (page 37) >D) Just hw militant are Jordi and Novalis? they often are over looked for >the fighting abilities by a lot o folks i feel, but that maybe due to the >"M" factor* >E) In the final trumpet how're you supposed to get the players from one >country to another.. the action is all over the world but i find little that >the charecters would be cope with if they arrived at whatever location where >half a dozen supperiors are waiting for the next big horn blast.. >Okies, thats it for my queeries for now, but i still got plenty to say.. if >i dont get unsubscribed for saying it. >A few digests ago some one mentioned chinese (etc) angels and demons, well >in my campaign such creatures are from the Etherial realms, that way they >can have scary abilities that the Celestials dont really understand, except >those servitors of Nybaas and Eli who watch manga.... >Teh only real powers over there would be of Vapula and Jean, involved in the >technologies race and maybe a few of Novalis's angels doing the whole fung >shui and peace thing, a few of Haagentis goons may be loafing around too >trying to get the folks out there to buy more, open more resturants over >'here'. >As for the Heresy postings, well all relegions are considered heretical by >all the others, especially Christianity and Islamic belief. Many of the >Archangels are patrons for a relegion or two so each one is really heretical >in the eyes of the others. But do any of the Demon Princes go for relegions >of any form? I see Malphas as going to a dozen different 'churches' and >secular meetings and then being a member of numerous cults then telling al >the others about eachothers whereabouts and then stand back to watch the >ensuing fun. >With respect to the RANTS posting, Chris, the check digit is just for >'cinematic effect' buti dont have to tell you this. perhaps you should sign >your freind up to this digest, that way they can read all the stuff we say >in reply. Its a shame when a player and a GM fall out over a game, it >happened to me recently with an exgirlfiend (deffinatly no R in that...) she >finally didnt like the fact that her charecter got hit rather hard, we had a >screaming match and then she stormed out of the game, the game still runs >though, minus the malakite of michael wo was just a little too close to the >"M" factor for my liking. >As for the Joys.. i aggree with them all. >And the person who mentioned the thankyou thingy... >THANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOU >There i said it now. >With respect to the Demon of Telemarketing... Evil merely is, humanity has >free will, the celestials on either side merely try to coax the 'lil >monkeys' to doing things either way.. >If you want a dark game play some of the WW stuff, no disrespect to WW but i >like both dark and light games. i like VTM because there is the chance to >destroy my maker.. and theirs and theirs.. and so on.. but IN i feel is >light releif with just a little horror and not very niceness thrown in for >good measure. >As for art/casting threads... try reading a comic called CRIMSON it is a >very cool VTM and IN cross over with great Angels and some great one >liners.. it is what IN is all about to me. >The web site where it can be found is www.wildstorm.com >Okies, thats me done for now, thanks in advance to any help recived, >Colgarothialmes Shedite of Damnation >icq: 60645575 > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 15:09:17 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> [ADMIN] Welcome to in_nomine-l Okay, I haven't gotten this for the digest yet, but the rules are essentially the same. Here's the apporporiate information that everyone SHOULD have received long ago, and should have SAVED. - -- Welcome to the in_nomine-l mailing list! Please save this message for future reference. Thank you. If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, send the following command in email to : uns*bscribe (Where * is replaced by the correct letter. Same with the second two below.) Or you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: uns*bscribe in_nomine-l or from another account, besides your@first.account: uns*bscribe in_nomine-l your@other.account If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble uns*bscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. - ------ [Last updated on: Fri Jul 24 17:03:19 1998] Welcome to the IN NOMINE List. I hope you'll find the following an informative introduction to the list. Peace, Elizabeth "Archangel Beth" McCoy IN NOMINE List Manager (Taking over from Moriah, who wrote all this, and I'm not going to do much to change the info-list here. [I did this once, but it didn't take. Argh. --arcangel, 7/24/98]) ========== IN NOMINE List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) Oct 9 1997, v0.4.1 How does the list work? and it's digest sister, , are lists managed by 'Majordomo', which is a program that manages *many* mailing lists and it resides at IO.COM. There are two types of posts (i.e., email messages) one can compose and send: 1) administrative requests; and, 2) posting a message to the list. 1. Administrative requests are made to (or to ) with the 'command request' put into the *body* of the email -- *not* the *subject header*, but the *body* of the message. Administrative command requests usually follow the pattern of: command list_name-l my@email.address So, e.g., if I, , were to switch from the list to the digest, I would send a message to majordomo at and the commands in the main body of the email would be: unsubscribe in_nomine-l arcangel@io.com subscribe in_nomine-digest arcangel@io.com It's important to type out your email address, otherwise, Majordomo will use the one you are emailing from, which might not be the right one (some systems send out your email with an expanded address which doesn't work in reply, e.g., IO.COM used to send out email as from <[name]@news.io.com> -- very annoying and not the right reply address). Send Majordomo a message with 'help' in the *body* and it will send you back a list of all the command requests available. 2. Messages to the List: They should be sent to even if you're on the digest plan! Be careful about how your email program does replies. Some pick up or as the reply address -- that's wrong. And if you're getting the digest, you'll have to manually type in an appropriate subject header each time, otherwise your reply will have as the subject -- not very informative. What is the purpose of the IN NOMINE List? Good PR. Really. It is a free service of Steve Jackson Games to its online customers who are fans of IN NOMINE (just like our website). It allows the fans to have relatively quick response and support from official SJ Games NetReps. SJ Games 'owns' the list and 'manages' it and 'moderates' it. What do you mean, 'moderates' it? Are my constitutional rights to free speech being impinged here? You got it, baby. Actually, free speech does not exist in a private forum such as this; just like you can't walk into a classroom or boardroom and just say what ever you want no matter how disruptive. Here's a soapbox and there's the corner of 1st and Main -- you have all the free speech you want there, not here. For those who've ever participated in a busy *un*moderated online forum, you'll appreciate the moderation here. Generally, there isn't much that's off limits. So, what *is* off limits? Being off-topic. People signed up to discuss IN NOMINE, not someone's opinion of today's hot topics. Sharing with us the latest joke list, even if religious in nature, is also a no-no. Now, if it deals with angels and demons, then, yes, it *is* on topic. Flaming. That's 'netspeak' for personal attacks. This is absolutely forbidden and will get you kicked off the list faster than an Ofanite on speed. You may criticize the *content* of another person's posts (and adult criticism is more than name-calling the content of another person's post -- we don't simply say 'that's stupid!' -- we give reasons why we think that, in our opinion, that's not so clever). But you may never call another person 'stupid' or talk about what character defects they may have that may have led them to what you think is such a wrong idea. The character defects of their relatives is also off limits. (Flaming White Wolf is also a sure way to get into a non-useful thread. Please don't do it. Also, don't flame other people's religions. There are many different faiths on this list, including some you may think of as 'fringe' or even 'cult.' --arcangel@io.com) Vulgarities. Yes, IN NOMINE is an adult game with a warning label on it. But adult language is not necessarily vulgar language, in fact, a case can be made for just the opposite. A well-placed mild vulgarity is fine. Vulgarity that is hard-core, gratuitous, inflammatory, immature, etc... will be stomped on, hard. If you don't know the difference, better to not use it at all. Did you notice that IN NOMINE doesn't use vulgarity? "I hate IN NOMINE" posts. Everyone is free to criticize any aspect of the game, but if you hate it all together, get off the list -- it's for the *fans* of IN NOMINE, not for troublemakers. And if you're having trouble getting unsubscribed, the List Manager will be happy to do it for you. Role-playing. Funny how that's not allowed, eh? But this is a List for *discussion* of the game, not role-playing it. Taking on an IN NOMINE character for a few posts is fine to help illustrate that personality type. But extended role-playing is forbidden, especially when going back and forth between just two or a few people. Anything non-ASCII. There are no real, universal email standards and many people are still operating on straight ASCII email systems. So, no MIME, binhex, Base 64, uuencoded, multi-part, file-attachment, proprietary files, binaries, executable files, pictures, bitmaps, html, PGP, ROTC-13, encrypted, Geekcoded, bearcoded, x-coded anything. Just the text in normal typewriter keyboard letters and symbols in unscrambled English. Anything else can be put up on your web page and you can point us to it. (And I get *real* cranky if I see non-ascii stuff. --arcangel@io.com) Spam. What is 'spam'? Spiced ham by Hormel (tm). It is also useless and/or annoying text which Should Not Have Been. This includes repetitive information such as: Needlessly requoting the message you are replying to. Never, ever, requote the message's Internet pathway header or its .sig (the composer's clever message footer) -- unless you are commenting on what's in there, in which case, you're probably off-topic anyway. *SNIP* (i.e., *delete*) the parts of the message you are requoting which are not necessary for the point you are making in your new message. At most, you only need to quote a few lines from anyone's post in order to add your own comments. A tagline in your .sig that is too long or never changes (even a Dilbert quote stops being funny after the tenth reading -- let alone the hundredth). A message footer should really not be more than four lines. If you want to say something about yourself, put in a one-line teaser and then point us to your web page where you can indulge our desire to know everything about you. Take away those borders, we already know that the info following your closing salutation is the footer. Spam also includes advertisements that have nothing to do with IN NOMINE. I don't care how worthy the cause, you'll have to find some other venue to advertise your business or charity or political cause (even if it has something to do with Internet freedom). This is a sure-fire boot off the list *and* I'll track down your ISP and tell them you spammed the list. Be warned. If there are any announcements about viruses or Internet stuff or IO.COM stuff, your List Manager *alone* will make the announcement after checking the validity of the announcement. Most of those warnings passed on by ordinary folks are *wrong*. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Don't fall for it. Any valid warning will have a website where you can check the validity of the announcement. Anything that says, 'pass it on' is wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. No valid Net authority would ever create a message like that. Kill it where it stands. If you're not sure, send it to the List Manager first, and if deemed worthy, it will be sent to the list. (If I see anything regarding the "Good Times Virus"... It's a fraud. If I'm the first person to tell you about it, memorize it now. There is no such thing. --arcangel@io.com) As a sige note, semi-spam includes quoting the *WHOLE ARTICLE* and doing a 1-3 line reply that is usually not much more than "Me too" or "I like that." Fine. Terrific. Send that in email. Learn to clip your posts, or don't post. (This is something the digest people will really be annoyed by, you see -- they've already *gotten* the original. They don't need the whole thing *again*.) So, where can I say or do the things I want to do but are not allowed on the List? Private email -- flame away there, although, you might start breaking telecommunication harassment laws if you do -- be warned. Side conversations involving only a few people are most appropriate in private email. The unmoderated Usenet newsgroups (but be warned, if you abuse their protocols, even though they are unmoderated and much more lax than the List, they'll make your life a living Hell). PBEM (Play By EMail) games and MUDS/MUSHES (see our website for links) are places where you can get all the online IN NOMINE role-playing you want. Create your own lists: , , , etc.... It'll be your dime -- do whatever you want there. Who's who on the List? Elizabeth 'Archangel Beth' McCoy, IN NOMINE Line Editor, IN NOMINE List Manager and Owner. . (I do most of my posting from emccoy@nh.ultranet.com, but everything to "arcangel" gets forwarded.) John Karakash, IN NOMINE NetRep. Derek Pearcy, IN NOMINE Author, . (But he only skims the list since he's so busy working on future supplements -- that's a hint that he shouldn't be bothered privately too much, he's not on the list in an official capacity, but because he's such a nice, sweet guy!) "EDG," current main keeper of the In Nomine Collection (INC), which is a, well, collection of unofficial In Nomine stuff by fans. And some other nice people who've collected impressive resources on IN NOMINE. Rather than listing them here, you can get to their websites by first visiting SJ Games' official IN NOMINE website at How do we get questions answered officially? Post 'em to the List. Please do not email John or Beth or Derek privately. It is against SJ Games' policy for staffers or NetReps to respond to private questions about the game -- otherwise, that is what we would be doing all day long, and no other work would get done. However, we are reasonable people -- if you're a GM and your players are on the list and a public question would spoil things -- go ahead and email us. Just don't take advantage of it, please. Never bother Steve Jackson about it! Though he revels in positive email, he is very, very busy. Besides, he will forward any email questions about IN NOMINE to John and Beth anyway, so save some electrons and just post it on the list. If *we* can't answer it, *then* we'll ask SJ about it. We'll pass on to SJ whatever you may be whinin... um, politely asking with regard to the future of IN NOMINE. Of course, there are some other things that should be emailed privately -- e.g., requests or questions or praises that don't belong on the list. But if it's just a question about the game world or mechanics, post only to the list, please. (We also officially support IN NOMINE publicly on the Usenet newsgroup .) Also, we hope that you please understand that there are some questions for which we have no answers. Sometimes an answer requires making a new rule for the game, and we don't want to do that lightly and cause unbalancing mechanics later on. Sometimes you'll be asking about details of the game world which have not been decided upon, yet, and won't be until the authors assigned to that question completes their work. In such cases, we might give you a rule of thumb, a temporary patch, or tell you to go with whatever you like 'cause we just don't know right now. Thank-you for your patience in this regard. And sometimes the answer is that there _is_ no answer! This is often called "CDaU" -- Canon Doubt and Uncertainty. And, as always, if you're the GM and you don't like our ruling, do whatever you like without guilt -- in fact, the other people on the list will probably pipe in with a lot of useful alternatives. We don't have any IN NOMINE police. Are answers from the NetRep *official*? Definitely yes. Moreover, John will carefully note when an answer he gives is not official, but just his opinion or a temporary ruling until the question is resolved by his Superiors. And just who are his Superiors? The Line Editor (Beth), the Managing Editor (Scott Haring), the Superior (we won't say if he's an Archangel or Demon Prince) of Gaming, Steve Jackson, himself. I'm shy... I'm afraid to ask something publicly and look silly -- what should I do? Well, realistically, first do what you can to avoid looking silly. If you have a question, first read the official Errata and FAQ for IN NOMINE -- maybe someone asked your question already. (and follow the links). The next trick is to check the digests (also findable via the links from the URL above). If you have Netscape, pick a keyword and do a "Find" though those. If it's not there, then go ahead and ask. It's not a silly question to you, so who gives a flaming feather what other people think! If someone does mock you, they'll be booted from the list under the 'no flame' rule above. So, you'll be doing us a favor by forcing the Servitors of Kobal out into the open where we can deal with them. And we remaining and more beatific folks will answer your question sincerely and kindly. Don't worry, be inquisitive... look where it got that Kyriotate in prehistoric times when he attempted that cat experiment and... oops, that's not public knowledge yet. (As a note: If you want to know about Roles, check the digests. That's been asked a lot, but I don't think it's in the FAQ yet. Also, we've already been through "What is good In Nomine Music" and "In Nomine Movie Casting." At least 3 times. Check the digests, don't start it *again*....) What's the policy on copyright? U.S. law states that what you write is automatically copyrighted by you. No one can copy it or redistribute it (and web-publishing and list-posting *is* redistribution) without your permission (with the exception of a few, restrictive 'fair use' cases). However, sending your email to a mailing list owned by SJ Games, which you know will re-copy it and send it out to over 300 subscribers sort of waters down your copyright protection -- but it does not eradicate it. SJ Games keeps an archive of the digest on its website. Posting to the list assumes that's OK with you -- if it isn't, get off the list. You still own the copyright to what you wrote (your Angel of Death is still your own). But SJ Games has the rights (since you sent it to a SJ Games' owned list) to make it available in its compiled form (also known as Compilation Copyright). The messages on the list and its compilation form at the SJ Games website may not be reproduced by any one for any reason (except for personal use only -- you may not put them up on your own website or redistribute them without permission). Now, some of our subscribers have been compiling selected messages for their own websites -- they do that with permission of the authors of those messages. (And if I forget to ask, and you don't want it on the INC, tell me; I will apologize and take it down ASAP. --arcangel@io.com) The original authors of the messages still own the copyright, and these other compilers own the compilation copyright -- which means you may not go to these sites and copy those messages (except for personal use) without getting permission from the original authors *and* compilers. Dig it? SJ Games owns the rights to the English version of IN NOMINE -- the French Publishers the French version, the German Publishers the German version, etc.... Distribution of translations of any copyrighted text into any language is copyright violation. Don't do it. You may compile large copies of the text for your own personal use if you are doing so from the books *you* purchased. If you do so from a friend's copy, you both are doing something illegal. If you sell or give away your books, you must destroy your copies and or compilations. Period. Distributing any copyrighted material (and web publishing or List-posting counts as distributing) is illegal. Period. Short quotes for the sake of comment or questions are OK -- that's covered by fair use exceptions. But you must acknowledge the quoted text as someone else's copyright. If the compilation you produce is a Great Idea, show it to us (the Line Editor) privately, we *may* put it, with your permission, on our website to share with everyone. We're not unreasonable. We don't want to hide our work or your work (at times), just protect our right to our copyrights; and our right to profit from our copyrights. SJ Games will protect its copyright using the full scope and power of the law. We have and we will. Do not test us on this, you will lose. Do I sound harsh? Sorry, I have to. Copyright not protected is copyright lost which is money lost which is our livelihood lost. Empty stomachs make for mean litigators. Hey, did you steal my idea? Absolutely not. Just because we both came up with Azrael, Angel of Death doesn't mean we stole it from you. We both dipped into the same prior resource. And if you look at our Azrael, you'll see it's a different character, though their powers might seem -- logically enough with both being angels of Death -- similar. (Actually, we don't have any plans for an Angel of Death, yet, and maybe never will.) When we see someone's work we like, we make an offer to buy it from them, or else, we just don't use it. However, we can't let ourselves be restrained from doing an Angel of X just because a fan also did an Angel of X. Remember that the IN NOMINE copyright, which includes all derivative works (even IN NOMINE characters), belongs to SJ Games. Does that mean that we own your Angel of X that you wrote? No. Does that mean we could have told you "You may not publish (including web and list publishing) any IN NOMINE characters without our permission"? Oh, yes. We could have. But we don't 'cause that's just plain stupid to do so in this industry. However, if we get enough people annoying us and claiming that we're stealing their IN NOMINE ideas (which we ain't), we just may have to stop allowing fan-created publication of IN NOMINE-derived copyrighted material. If you're afraid that we'll steal your ideas, keep them to yourselves -- you don't have a right to publish them -- we do. We allow you to publish and share your creations 'cause we're Nice Guys. Don't make us turn and become like those Grumpy Guys. I'd like to write IN NOMINE stuff for SJ Games, how do I go about it? Read the SJGames Writers' Guidelines on the website. (www.sjgames.com/general/guidelines) It basically boils down to: 1. If you can't write grammatically correct English (with no misspellings), forget it. Period. If you can't follow the Writers' Guidelines correctly, forget it. Period. (Sorry, but there are plenty of good writers who can write technically well and follow instructions -- we'll go with them, instead.) 2. If you're new to writing, submit an article to Pyramid magazine first (which means reading the Pyramid Writers' Guidelines). If you're an established writer, submit your resume with what areas you'd like to write about. Steven Marsh is the person to introduce yourself to -- but follow the Guidelines in how to go about this, or else you'll be screaming "I don't know how to follow directions!". 2a. If you want some private help with something, I, arcangel@io.com, have been known to edit people's stuff prior to official submission. I do this on my own time, and I may be busy with other things. Send me some private email first, and we can talk. 3. Know your IN NOMINE, including its mood and atmosphere. It's a difficult line to walk in trying to add new stuff to the IN NOMINE universe without going off in the wrong directions. Some people get it, some don't. C'est la Symphonie. Keep in mind that it's also an adult game about adult themes with adult vocabulary and adult philosophies and adult moral dilemmas. 4. There is a proto-stylesheet at the INC (see above, and below for the URL) which lists the capitalizations and plurals of various funky words in IN NOMINE. In particular, if I (arcangel@io.com) see "a Shedim"... (Yes, it's in the main book. I wasn't Line Editor then, or that typo *wouldn't* be there...) *ahem* Know your IN NOMINE plurals and terminology. Hey, all of a sudden, I'm not subscribed anymore (or, my subscription to the list was changed to the digest)... what gives? Argh. Your email account is the problem. Every piece of email that gets bounced back to Majordomo gets bounced to me, the owner of the list. And *every* *single* *day* there is *at* *least* *one* account on the subscription list that 'goes bad'. That means about 30 bounced emails a day into my email box for each bad account to which mail is undeliverable. I'm sorry, but I can't cope with hundreds of bounced emails waiting for your account to return to normal. I immediately unsubscribe any account which is undeliverable. If your email account is offline for whatever reason, and your provider isn't storing messages for you, but is returning them, more than likely, you've been unsubscribed and will have to resubscribe yourself when your email account is returned to normal. You can check out the digest archive at the website to see what you missed. CompuServe and AOL members (and possibly other types of accounts) have email boxes which can get full (usually a 100 email limit). CS and AOL will then return email. If you have a limit to pieces of email your email box can hold, then you *should* be on the digest version of any list or risk filling your email box with just a day's absence from your computer. These questions seem rather phony... did you make 'em up? You're a Seraph, arenchya? (But no... Moriah did. O;> ) ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1671 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.