From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Jun 14 01:39:02 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA28873 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 01:39:02 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id BAA23049 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 01:37:30 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 01:37:30 -0500 Message-Id: <200006140637.BAA23049@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1675 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, June 14 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1675 In this digest: Re: IN> IN Rant - Addendum IN> Prehistoric In Nomine RE: IN> Prehistoric In Nomine IN> Marcus and Mammon IN> Killing humans Re: IN> Prehistoric In Nomine Re: IN> Killing humans Re: IN> Prehistoric In Nomine RE: IN> Prehistoric In Nomine Re: IN> Prehistoric In Nomine IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1673 IN> The INcyclopedia will shortly have advertising. Re: Essence (was Re: IN> IN Rant - Addendum) Re: IN> IN Rant - Addendum RE: IN> IN Rant - Addendum Re: IN> Endgame: The Beginning of the End Re: IN> IN Rant - Addendum Re: IN> IN Rant - Addendum Re: IN> IN Rant - Addendum Re: IN> IN Rant - Addendum Re: Fwd: Re: IN> Punishment for Killing a Human Re: IN> IN Rant - Addendum RE: IN> Prehistoric In Nomine Re: Fwd: Re: IN> Punishment for Killing a Human Re: IN> Killing humans ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 16:06:42 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> IN Rant - Addendum Whistling in the Dark wrote: > My favorite of these comments is Essence. I mean, the Essence > mechanic is simple. And very traditional. Essence = mana/fatigue (GURPS) = spell points (D&D) = psi points (various) = psi hits (Over the Edge) = Essence (again) (Rolemaster) = vis (Ars Magica) = a mechanic for a very widespread idea variously called mana, numen, orenda, prana, akasha, sa, "medicine," chi, or ki. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 16:11:54 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Prehistoric In Nomine Steven Feldon wrote: > This version also had _four_ forms for every celestial--corporeal, > celestial, ethereal, and "true". Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Indeed, in an early draft of the rules I dug up somewhere, > Essence and character points are _one and the same_. Out of sheer curiosity, can you post a URL or something to this earlier draft? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 14:19:39 -0700 From: Steven Feldon Subject: RE: IN> Prehistoric In Nomine There's _a_ prerelease version at http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/choirs/pre.html, but the version that Beth and I are talking about was the playtest from two years before release. I haven't see etext versions of _that_ since before Pyramid was online--I remember getting it from the sjgames website, rather than through Pyramid. steve - -----Original Message----- From: Earl Wajenberg [mailto:earlw@mc.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 2:12 PM To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: IN> Prehistoric In Nomine Steven Feldon wrote: > This version also had _four_ forms for every celestial--corporeal, > celestial, ethereal, and "true". Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Indeed, in an early draft of the rules I dug up somewhere, > Essence and character points are _one and the same_. Out of sheer curiosity, can you post a URL or something to this earlier draft? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 17:25:42 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Marcus and Mammon Mammon in my game (admittadly this is noncannon but it might give you some ideas for servitors of him or how I see his lifestyle) is a huge piggish man who lives in the part of Hell they used to build Dis...the place is paved in streets of gold, gems are lying all around on the ground for the taking, and huge pleasure palaces are all about the place. Make no mistake you can't take anything out of the place and everything belongs to Mammon but he loves to show off his wealth to his demons (basically your a guest in his house great Gatsby house and own nothing). "Scrooge" unfortunately has a fatal flaw that destroyed Mariel by Haagenti. His word is almost completely covered by Gluttony. Greed is the hoarding of wealth, mistresses, envy, and selfishness. For the vast majority of the things described gluttony for money, sex, possesions, and selfishness are a part of Haagenti's strength. There really just ways of saying the same thing and I'm pretty sure this is Lucifers way of saying to Mammon "shape up or the Calabim will eat you". Mammon must either stop being so stinking lazy and go out and promote his word or his servants will all join Haagenti as they have been doing. The ambitious ones at least. Like "Taking credit for other people's Work" Mammon has been relying too much that his word is self-perpetuating. Marc I think has the toughest word in Heaven because Jesus flat out and said the whole camel analogy, so it's up to Mark to make really big needles and teach body folding to his soldiers. He's had enough trouble with a lazy Superior who only has to say "Take a load off" and Marc loses big time for a servant keeping his wealth solvent and in his millionaire mansions instead of spending. Now he has two Superiors of Finnance and this just is seriously troublesome. In my mind Essence is not Marc's main business though it's a lucrative side business. While other angels get dolled out it, Marc makes it a point to his servitors that he's willing to give distinctions to his servitors who return with 10 talents than 1. Basically this ammounts to Marc creating bank cards where he stores essence his Servitors don't spend and collect with artifacts....and giving the pin numbers to angels that need it. It's a small business because frankly Essence is a high availability commodity even if it is in high demand. But it's put several of his guys through when they were going for words by calling in some favors. Strictly speaking Mammon's Impudites keep hordes of the stuff but when your a servant of Kobal, an Impudite of ANYONE, or a servant of Belial or Saminga (who want there essence the Hard way) They'res less demand than in Heaven (though demons are more greedy). Lilim of Marc and Mammon probably have better luck with favors....but moreso with Haagenti and Lilim because they can geas you AND make a good meal at the same time....footrub later and you'll sign anything. Lilith's Succubi/Incubi are like that. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 17:47:59 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Killing humans >To an angel, death is not the absolute worst thing that can happen to a >human -- damnation is. If the angel thinks that by killing a mortal they can >save a soul (maybe that human was being a really bad influence on someone), >then Dominic would expect them to do it without hesitation. Counterpoint here; Dominic is the one angel in the world (with maybe Yves, Khalid, and Gabby) who believes without a shadow of a doubt there is never any gray areas. However Dominic has very GOOD judgement. For instance: Human who is a bad influence: You kill him and send his soul presumably to Hell for tempting a man to cover up their accidental flooding of....New York or whatever with wild lions at the zoo if your a Jordite (the lions are killed), that man is sent to Hell. Basically Dominic sees a man who is sent to Hell, not a man who was saved by it. >If the mortal >really deserved to die -- perhaps he had committed some capital crime, but >the law would never have been able to touch him -- then again, Dominic isn't >going to be overly upset. > I'm going to list some crimes: Child Molestation, Incest, Murder, Rape, Animal experimentation, Abortion, Trading Pokemon cards, Idolotry, Adultery, Torture, Burying Uranium under a school playground, Polluting the River and paying off an EPA official, Embezzling a half billion dollars from scam charities to help starving children, Heresay, Slave trading, Littering the park Now please tell me exactly which crimes Dominic is going to merit worthy of death because these have all been used by Angels as saying "He/She had it comming". Frankly mortals due some damn rotton (pardon my blasphemy-BANG-from Malakim) things in there lifetime but it's up to Dominic to say.... "It's not our place to judge who lives and dies" or he takes the other root and say "We must judge who lives and dies by determining who is beyond redemption...." theres that word "beyond redemption". Theres some Risen Fallen Archangels out there I'm sure and quite a few who weren't...yet there it is if Dominic says judging a mortal to die. >If a human was good, they will end up in Heaven after their death anyway. So >also, if a demon or demonic plot can be foiled permanently and some humans >need to die in order to do it, a lot of the hardline archangels will not >expect their servitors to quibble too much about it. > Perhaps there. Certainly Jordi though is going to be horrofied if a Malakim buys some bug spray for the kids at the local orphanage in the swamps so they can have a fun summer at camp. However the fact remains your basically back to Dominic.... 5 demons are going to hold a Rock concert for the band "Worshippin Satan." and the characters have a idea these guys are soldiers of the Impudites who are their roadies. It's a big plot that at this concert they'll use amplified speakers to drain essence from everyone at the concert. (good adventure hook?-right on the spot actually) Well the Malakim knows they must be stopped so he poses as a mechanic (he works for Michael) sits outside the Concert chewing a hotdog...and the bomb goes off killing the demons and the soldiers and maims 300 people and the first three rows are killed completly. Accidental....BUT....acceptable losses in the Malakim's eyes...he weighed the risk and decided the best method. However 30 mortals...innocent and whose only crime is poor taste in music-are dead. >Superiors like Blandine, Novalis, Marc, and Yves will almost never condone >killing a human, whatever the circumstances. They'll expect their servitors >to find more creative ways of dealing with the problem. Superiors like >Laurence, Gabriel, and Dominic would take a _very_ hard look at the >circumstances, but if they agreed that the killing was necessary, they'd be >as likely to reward a servitor as punish him. The others are probably less >uptight about such things, but that doesn't mean explanations won't be >required. I think that Eli is the exception, because he never takes his >angels to task. As far as they know, killing might as cool as creating. I agree for the most part. Gabriel, Dominic, and Laurence know some mortals have to be stopped before they're evil is spread....and their methods tend to be violent. However Eli while the destroyer in my opinion disaligned to appreciate destruction of what might be salvagable. But I see him as leaving it to Dominic (he loves that guy-heeeeessss such a Square!) >I'm sure he comes down like a ton of bricks on casual, unnecessary, or >thoughtless killings. So an angel might be able to expect the equivalent of >a court-martial if you are running a game in which this is one of the more >serious offences -- except that if you can justify yourself, there will be >no mark on the record. I see Angels who kill thoughtlessly as in the same position as Uriel. Either life imprisonment as a servant of one of the other Superiors....or dissolutionment. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:02:45 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Prehistoric In Nomine At 4:11 PM -0500 6/13/00, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Steven Feldon wrote: > >> This version also had _four_ forms for every celestial--corporeal, >> celestial, ethereal, and "true". Yup -- and your ethereal forms were fixed according to Choir/Band. >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >> Indeed, in an early draft of the rules I dug up somewhere, >> Essence and character points are _one and the same_. > >Out of sheer curiosity, can you post a URL or something to >this earlier draft? Urm. I looked and can't find it. I found where I copied the files to _my_ disk, but, daft me, didn't include the URL. Here's the initial Outline, though. IN NOMINE (C)1995 Steve Jackson Games "Outline" Opening Page 1 Title 1 Credits 1 Table of Contents 2 Introduction 2 THE OVERTURE A Bright Dream 15 A Dark Dream 15 Playing the Game 28 THE INSTRUMENTS The Symphony 8 Celestial States 4 Choirs 10 Archangels 25 Heaven 6 Bands 10 Demon Princes 30 Hell 6 THE COMPOSITION Resources 32 Character Templates 6 Sample Characters 8 Bestiary 8 Campaigns 6 Sample Adventure 15 GURPS Conversions 13 Suggested Media 1 Index 2 About . . . 1 256 It _may_ have been at http://www.io.com/~ftp/GURPSnet/races/angels/ -- now a defunct URL. (Or, hm, no -- that looks like something else now that I track down the equivalent URL.) I can't think of a good keyword to search the digests for, though I know the URL has shown up there... And, dear stars I hope I'm still in fair use, here's the Essence-CP text somewhat. [...] Determining Essence A character's Essence Reservoir is determined by his Forces - for every Force, a starting character has four points of Essence in his Reservoir (i.e., Starting Essence = 4 x total Forces). Thus, characters begin with as large a Reservoir as they had points to spend on characteristics. During character creation, part of your starting Essence Reservoir is used to buy your PC's Resources (see p. 00). What's left over is the new size of your Reservoir. Don't spend all your Essence on Resources, or you won't have any energy to fuel all those neat powers when the game starts! Using Essence Essence can be spent two ways: permanently or temporarily. When adding or enhancing a Resource (see below), Essence is spent permanently. This reduces the size of a Reservoir by the amount spent. [...] Unless otherwise specified, most Essence expenditures are temporary, like when fueling a supernatural power, or enhancing a skill roll, or for the purposes of transferring energy from one place to another. You will reduce the content of your Reservoir - and don't worry, you can get more. Essence can also be stored in external Essence Reservoirs - anything that a person has created as a Resource can hold Essence for a rainy day. See Objects on p. 00 and Sanctums on p. 00 for more information. [...] GMs are expected to give points of Essence as a reward to players at the end of gaming sessions. A Divine Example: Carin, our sample character, had 12 points to spend in each of the three areas of her characteristics, meaning that if she stopped now, she could have 36 points of Essence! While that would be nice, she wouldn't have any skills, any Songs - not even a body to wear on Earth! She begins shopping for Resources. Resources Resources are special aspects of your character - what you can do, who you know and what you have. Players have as many points to spend on Resources as they did to buy their characteristics, and as mentioned above, points left over go to form their Essence Reservoirs. [...] Vessels [...] The typical corporeal vessel will be human; the level of the Resource determines how attractive it is to other humans. This attractiveness takes into account both your charisma and your body's pure, physical beauty. [...] Each type of Role has a different Essence cost per level. [...] Objects Essence is the stuff of the universe, and if spending Essence can fuel supernatural events or create living bodies, it can certainly manufacture a sword or a computer. A corporeal Object could be a vehicle, a rock, a nice weapon, etc., but they're just normal items - nothing supernatural about them, except that with a successful Will roll you may pull them in and out of existance, much like making your corporeal vessel appear when you wish to inhabit in and disappear in your mind's absence. - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. But now with a computer desk! Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:17:24 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Killing humans At 5:47 PM -0400 6/13/00, Charles Phipps wrote: [...] >"It's not our place to judge who lives and dies" or he takes the other root >and say "We must judge who lives and dies by determining who is beyond >redemption...." theres that word "beyond redemption". Theres some Risen >Fallen Archangels out there I'm sure and quite a few who weren't...yet there >it is if Dominic says judging a mortal to die. Not quite sure what you're saying here, but as regards whether Judgment will pass judgment upon a human -- look at his Mercurians' Choir Attunement. - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. But now with a computer desk! Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:55:35 -0400 From: Jason Schneiderman Subject: Re: IN> Prehistoric In Nomine >"Nephallim -- _all_ CotG -- used to be demons."> Ethereal characters got interventions on 333s; there was a sliding scale not-unlike Banality in Changeling-that determined how strong your connection to the Celestial was. (It was possible, I think, to become a Remnant by spending too much time with mortals.) I remember that playtest game fondly. Jason * * * * * "I'm addicted to stress that's the way that I get things done if I'm not underpressure then I sleep too long and I hang around like a bum and I think I'm going nowhere and that makes me nervous..." Jason Schneiderman jadasc@ma.ultranet.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 16:07:44 -0700 From: Steven Feldon Subject: RE: IN> Prehistoric In Nomine Oh, yeah: "Divinity", it was called. You gained a point for a month spent in Heaven, and lost a point for a week spent on Earth. Curiotates (that's not a typo--the name was different) had a minimum Divinity of 2 as long as they kept to more than one host. And if you got to 12 Divinity--Seraphim started with 9--you got a glimpse of God. Elohim were fixed at some number--5? 6? Demons were negative, with Balseraphs more deeply negative. I assume, although I don't remember, that you could Fall by going too far down the scale. You know, in a lot of ways, that was a game with less "spies with haloes" feeling. It also talked about how the Superiors were out of touch, and how Earthbound angels and demons were constantly walking the line of plausible deniability: I serve your Word better than you'd let me if you knew what I had to do down here to serve you. But you don't, and that's for the best. Also, any object could be a vessel. I remember in a little scenario we did, one of the players ended up taking a school building as a vessel, and I got images of the old Peanuts strips where Sally would talk to the school building. Oh, yeah! Vessels continued to exist when you weren't in them! They were like regular people, except you could step into them whenever you wanted. You know, if someone could dig that out, it'd make a hell of a Pyramid "special feature", even totally unedited. So many ideas that never made it to the published game. steve - -----Original Message----- From: Jason Schneiderman [mailto:jadasc@ma.ultranet.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 3:56 PM To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: Re: IN> Prehistoric In Nomine >"Nephallim -- _all_ CotG -- used to be demons."> Ethereal characters got interventions on 333s; there was a sliding scale not-unlike Banality in Changeling-that determined how strong your connection to the Celestial was. (It was possible, I think, to become a Remnant by spending too much time with mortals.) I remember that playtest game fondly. Jason * * * * * "I'm addicted to stress that's the way that I get things done if I'm not underpressure then I sleep too long and I hang around like a bum and I think I'm going nowhere and that makes me nervous..." Jason Schneiderman jadasc@ma.ultranet.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 16:14:04 -0700 From: "Sean McCarthy" Subject: Re: IN> Prehistoric In Nomine I would be willing to buy ad space or new Nerf weapons for the editor of Pyramid or something like that if it would get that published. I certainly don't have anything from back when I was first looking at IN files online(nor do I even have the same computer...) and I would love to see this kind of thing again. Sean _____________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 16:36:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1673 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 00:17:21 -0400From: hbias@earthlink.net (Harris Bias) Subject: Re: IN> Re: Theurgy> Yelping> >> within a half-block or so: Cherubim and Shedim >>have a +2 to attune to the >Maybe I'm missing something here, but shouldn't that >be Cherubim and Djinn?- -- Bad writing, there: replace with "Cherubim have a +2 to attune to the Singer: Shedim receive the same bonus to possess that Singer _only_. This bonus only applies if the Singer is an ally (explicit or implicit: GM call) of the celestial." Why them, and not Djinn and Kyrios? Well, Kyriotates don't _like_ just jumping in and possessing the Singer: they have no way of knowing what the situation is, and possessing an onlooking pigeon or something is a better way to assess the situation, pull an ambush, and generally avoid dissonance. Shedim have more leeway with their mounts*. And Djinn just couldn't care less about somebody screaming for help, anyway. It's psychological, in other words. :) Morgan (FAW) *I must remember to make sure that all Shedim of Death IMFC use that term. If nothing else, it'll REALLY pi** off the loas... ;) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 17:15:00 -0700 From: Steven Feldon Subject: IN> The INcyclopedia will shortly have advertising. I'm succumbing to the filthy demon Lucre. The INcyclopedia is going to have advertising, if all goes "well". Before you get out your stones, rotten tomatoes, and Songs of Thunder, please hear me out: I'm not going to make a dime from this. I'm going to first funnel any proceeds into paying for the domain name. Then I'm going to pay for the material Diane and I use in entering the data--it'd help her if she had a set of books she could mark up, and currently she's paying for doubles to do this out of her own pocket. If there's anything left, I'm either going to try to buy out IN books we don't like--the APG leaps to mind--or give it to a local food-bank. So this isn't Mammon. It's just an effort to keep this website from having to become an issue in my family; we're facing some unusual bills, and re-registering frivolous domains is not currently a high priority in our budget. (By the way, if I've never publicly thanks SJG/ArchBeth/SJ/Kira for hosting the INcyclopedia, it is my omission and long overdue: thanks, guys. You're an ongoing Divine Intervention.) And yes, I've cleared this with Archangel Beth and SJ Himself. They don't mind, last I heard from them. SJ even called me silly for worrying about it. :) Also, the service I'm working with pays on impressions from unique IP's, _not_ clickthroughs, so don't feel you have to actually click on the ad to do good. I don't care. I don't expect anyone to ever click through them. I just have to display them to get paid. And if you have a lab full of machines to hit the INcyclopedia with, well, hey: do your research on a bunch of different machines, hmm? I'm open to personal mail about all aspects of this, from the decision to take advertising itself to selecting which book to buy out, to what to do with the books if and when we buy them. And thanks for your patience. . . . Steve http://www.incyclopedia.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:02:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Knop Subject: Re: Essence (was Re: IN> IN Rant - Addendum) On Tue, 13 Jun 2000, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 8:36 AM -0700 6/13/00, Robert Knop wrote: > >[...] but Essence is a foundation of In Nomine, > > Indeed, in an early draft of the rules I dug up somewhere, Essence and > character points are _one and the same_. You spend Essence to make a > vessel, for instance, and get it back again if the vessel is toasted. > IIRC. I thought that was a very interesting mechanic and was SO glad > that they didn't use it for the final version. O:> This is reminscent of one of the optional rules for Fudge that Steffan O'Sullvan proposed after the fact (in his "latest thoughts"), where instead of experience points, you just give out Fudge points. You can then use Fudge points for normal uses: beefing up die rolls -- which is where the relevance comes in, since you can use Essence for the same thing, and indeed in my Fudge In Nomine conversion, I suggest just ignoring Fudge points and using only Essence. Or, you can use Fudge points to improve your character. You then have to decide if you want to use them to help you get out of a scrape, or save them for character improvement.... It seems odd that you get the Essence back for having a vessel toasted, though, even if Essence and character points are one and the same. - -Rob ------------------------------ Date: 13 Jun 2000 18:26:09 -0700 From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> IN Rant - Addendum On Mon, 12 June 2000, "Chris" wrote: > 3) A 2nd Edition is an absolute requirement. But if they do it, then the > canon has to be fixed. Certain mechanics better explained (e.g. > Disturbance, Words, Distinctions, and Rewards - and without the need for a > GMG to do it). No more repetition of previous material in sourcebooks. A I found it amusing that, Eli excepted, every archangel uses the same levels of Distinction, regardless of how uptight (Laurence) or relaxed (Novalis) said organization is. I'm starting to personalize the levels for each Superior, frex Novalis' Distinctions are Dude, , Guru. Suggestions from the list would be great! The more militant/ organized/ conservative AAs use the traditional Vassal/Friend/Master system. As for Disturbance...I got sick of calculating it for each angel, so I declared through GM fiat that 1 note of Disturbance carries for 1 mile. Period. At 1 mile and 1 micron, silence. This is the supernatural we're talking about here, so I feel I can get away with that. This drastically simplifies things. I check my map to see of anyone is in range, have them roll Perception. Check digits are per canon. - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 11:46:58 +1000 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: RE: IN> IN Rant - Addendum Casca wrote: > As for Disturbance...I got sick of calculating it for each angel, > so I declared through GM fiat that 1 note of Disturbance carries > for 1 mile. Period. At 1 mile and 1 micron, silence. This is the > supernatural we're talking about here, so I feel I can get away > with that. Wow. 1 note = 1 mile? That's harsh. From memory, the Disturbance calculation gives a +1 per note with the bonus reducing for each multiple of the original disturbance. So by this, 1 note would give +1 to the Perception roll for 1 yard. At a distance of 12 yards the disturbance would be impossible to hear by a _Perception 12_ celestial (the Target Number would be 1). Don't you think it would be slightly fairer to say range = Disturbance squared yards? Or is silence a major theme of your campaign? (Not judging, just suggesting). I think I'll be using Disturbance Squared for my games, so if you're in range you can have a standard Perception roll to detect it: 1 note = 1 yard/meter 2 notes = 4 yards One of my PC's Malakite going celestial: 41 notes = 1681 yards. I think it could work (if you don't want disturbance to be a planet wide occurrence. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Jun 2000 18:42:36 -0700 From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Endgame: The Beginning of the End On Sun, 11 June 2000, "EDG" wrote: > I liked this, a lot. ^_^ Thanks! I was afraid nobody liked it, because after I posted it no-one said anything. > fact, one entire 70k piece is the Book of > K'kreth-once-Andreiel, a former angel of Judgment, detailing the fall of > Dominic and his own subsequent fall, but I won't go any farther into that. I'm interested. Email it to me if you don't post it. > Casca, pending the release of more chapters, may I have permission to post > this on the INC? Certainly! - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:50:32 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> IN Rant - Addendum > As for Disturbance...I got sick of calculating it for each angel, so I declared through GM fiat that 1 note of Disturbance carries for 1 mile. Period. At 1 mile and 1 micron, silence. This is the supernatural we're talking about here, so I feel I can get away with that. I can't believe that most people bother calculating disturbances. The Game Master's Guide has a nifty way to simplify it, and we also use our own generalized system. One point tends to be heard within a room, two to three within a small building, 4 or more within a few blocks, and so on. Just a general idea. The game's too cinematic to break out the calculator. :) Ben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:02:22 -0700 From: Ryan Elias Subject: Re: IN> IN Rant - Addendum Casca wrote: > I found it amusing that, Eli excepted, every archangel uses the same levels of Distinction, regardless of how uptight (Laurence) or relaxed (Novalis) said organization is. There's always Vapula's Inspectors ^_^ >As for Disturbance...I got sick of calculating it for each angel, so I >declared through GM fiat that 1 note of Disturbance carries for 1 mile. >Period. At 1 mile and 1 micron, silence. This is the supernatural we're >talking about here, so I feel I can get away with that. Eh. We've always dealt with disturbance on a fast and loose basis, basically amounting to GM's ruling, except in really really exceptionally vital circumstances, when we painstakingly calculate it out. Seems to work well enough (although a standard disturbance radius makes sense, and I plan to pitch it to my GM if he hasn't subscribed to the list yet). Cheers, -Ryan, negotiating e-mail problems. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 21:10:33 -0500 From: "David Rodemaker" Subject: Re: IN> IN Rant - Addendum > Casca wrote: > > I found it amusing that, Eli excepted, every archangel uses the same levels of Distinction, regardless of how uptight (Laurence) or relaxed (Novalis) said organization is. > > There's always Vapula's Inspectors ^_^ > > >As for Disturbance...I got sick of calculating it for each angel, so I >declared through GM fiat that 1 note of Disturbance carries for 1 mile. >Period. At 1 mile and 1 micron, silence. This is the supernatural we're >talking about here, so I feel I can get away with that. > > Eh. We've always dealt with disturbance on a fast and loose basis, > basically amounting to GM's ruling, except in really really > exceptionally vital circumstances, when we painstakingly calculate it > out. Seems to work well enough (although a standard disturbance radius > makes sense, and I plan to pitch it to my GM if he hasn't subscribed to > the list yet). Heck, in Kiara's game disturbance works as normal (pretty much) but when it hits 50 points it becomes "100's" of yards and when it hits 100 points goes to "miles." Do *not* make alot of noise in her game. The "shot heard round the world" ...can be. The Other David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 21:35:08 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> IN Rant - Addendum Chris wrote: > A better way of saying "the canon has to be fixed," would be to say, > "All of the changes and inconsistancies and holes should be made into a > cohesive and consistant whole. Areas that are CDaU should be better spelled > out as CDaU and while responses to what is written cannot be predicted, > there should be a true vision of where the game is going." Well, the GMG tried to spell out exactly what is CDaU. What do you feel was not adequately explained there? - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 21:40:18 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: IN> Punishment for Killing a Human Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >Well, I wouldn't agree with you completely. I think that a Triad would > >be likely to haul you in for questioning if they found pornography in > >the same house an angel was staying in. (yes this does make it very easy > >to set up angels, and the demons do enjoy doing so) Triads can't possibly waste their time "hauling angels in" for EVERY minor potential transgression. Besides, they don't need to haul you anywhere. Seraph of Judgment: "What were you doing in the same house with this pornography, Intercessionist?" Mercurian: "Umm.....I didn't know it was there, Most Holy. Maybe it belongs to my Soldier. I'll talk to him about it." Seraph (reading Symphony): "Indeed. And talk to him about the Sin of Onan while you're at it...." (This tongue-in-cheek example assumes that Judgment has a Catholic boarding school attitude towards sex, of course, which I don't think they do.) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 21:49:26 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> IN Rant - Addendum Casca wrote: > I found it amusing that, Eli excepted, every archangel uses the same levels of Distinction, regardless of how uptight (Laurence) or relaxed (Novalis) said organization is. I'm starting to personalize the levels for each Superior, frex Novalis' Distinctions are Dude, , Guru. Suggestions from the list would be great! The more militant/ organized/ conservative AAs use the traditional Vassal/Friend/Master system. I did write something in S1 about Laurence formerly having a very complicated system of ranks and Distinctions, with each Order of the Sword having its own Distinctions. Then he tidied up sometime in the last couple of centuries. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 23:12:20 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> Prehistoric In Nomine At 4:07 PM -0700 6/13/00, Steven Feldon wrote: >Oh, yeah: "Divinity", it was called. Divinity and Malevolance, in the files I have... Your starting amount was based on your Choir/Band. If you had a high level of Divinity/Malevolance, you got a bonus to Celestial Songs, but a penalty to Corporeal ones, and vice versa! Things were spelled differently: Orphanim. Kuriotites. This was the order of demons... the Balseraphs, the Djinn, the Lilim, the Nephallim, the Zenumites, the Calabim, and the Impudites. >You know, if someone could dig that out, it'd make a hell of a Pyramid >"special feature", even totally unedited. So many ideas that never made it >to the published game. I've got all the files -- I think this is draft the second. I don't know if there are any extant copies of draft the first. Draft the third is hidden in the in-nomine folder, and the final draft, well... If someone wants to talk Steven Marsh into a "Prehistoric In Nomine" collection, I could probably exerpt the stuff that was different. Bribing him with Nerf toys might even work! Go for it, y'all. - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. But now with a computer desk! Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 23:21:55 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: IN> Punishment for Killing a Human At 9:40 PM -0500 6/13/00, David Edelstein wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: (Forwarded, _forwarded_! I didn't write it, I just forwarded it because it bounced! Yeesh! Preserve the "From" field in the text when you do this, huh?) >> >Well, I wouldn't agree with you completely. I think that a Triad would >> >be likely to haul you in for questioning if they found pornography in >> >the same house an angel was staying in. (yes this does make it very easy >> >to set up angels, and the demons do enjoy doing so) > >Triads can't possibly waste their time "hauling angels in" for EVERY >minor potential transgression. Not to mention wasting the time of Servitors of other Archangels, who will want to ask Dominic some pointed questions about this later. > Besides, they don't need to haul you anywhere. >(This tongue-in-cheek example assumes that Judgment has a Catholic >boarding school attitude towards sex, of course, which I don't think >they do.) Not all of them, certainly, though some might be twitchy about possible signs of Lust -- this may well be something that depends on prior experience. One porn magazine leading to a plot of Lust, and man, everyone with a Penthouse gets The Lecture... - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. But now with a computer desk! Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 23:36:39 PDT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Killing humans >From: "Charles Phipps" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > > >For instance: Human who is a bad influence: You kill him and send his soul >presumably to Hell for tempting a man to cover up their accidental flooding >of....New York or whatever with wild lions at the zoo if your a Jordite >(the >lions are killed), that man is sent to Hell. Basically Dominic sees a man >who is sent to Hell, not a man who was saved by it. > A man who sent himself to Hell by his own actions. Dominic is a judge, after all. I am thinking more of cases where the victim is in a position to influence _many_ other people toward Hell, if he is not stopped. So it's a case of killing one hellbound soul, or letting him be responsible for the damnation of many others, and there isn't always a quick, reasonable alternative. This is also why Malakim have to keep killing demonic vessels, even though they know the demons will probably reconsitute in Hell and come back. While they aren't on Earth, they aren't seducing souls for Lucifer. The Malakite who 'goes easy' on a sympathetic demon will be personally responsible for the damnation of the human souls that demon goes on to corrupt. > >I'm going to list some crimes: >Child Molestation, Incest, Murder, Rape, Animal experimentation, Abortion, >Trading Pokemon cards, Idolotry, Adultery, Torture, Burying Uranium under a >school playground, Polluting the River and paying off an EPA official, >Embezzling a half billion dollars from scam charities to help starving >children, Heresay, Slave trading, Littering the park > >Now please tell me exactly which crimes Dominic is going to merit worthy of >death because these have all been used by Angels as saying "He/She had it >comming". Frankly mortals due some damn rotton (pardon my >blasphemy-BANG-from Malakim) things in there lifetime but it's up to >Dominic >to say.... No, individual triads are able to make judgements on his behalf & in his name. They're expected to use their best judgement. If human judges an do it, then so can angels. Often they'll probably prefer to let the mortal judiciary deal with cases, but if the proof isn't there, then that might not be an option. Angels don't need physical proof. Often, they will just _know_ via resonances. If a triad of judgement bothers to put a mortal to the trial, then it should be as terrfiying as facing the ultimate high court judge in person -- because they will _know_ what you've done. You should be on your knees begging for mercy, as if you were standing before the throne of God Himself and being called to account for your life. That's the heavenly judgement that Dominic personifies, and it isn't always merciful (possibly if the human repents et al that would count as a mitigating circumstance, though.) For some people, that sort of experience _will_ make them turn themselves around. >"It's not our place to judge who lives and dies" or he takes the other root >and say "We must judge who lives and dies by determining who is beyond >redemption...." theres that word "beyond redemption". Theres some Risen >Fallen Archangels out there I'm sure and quite a few who weren't...yet >there >it is if Dominic says judging a mortal to die. > > >Accidental....BUT....acceptable losses in the Malakim's eyes...he weighed >the risk and decided the best method. However 30 mortals...innocent and >whose only crime is poor taste in music-are dead. > This is why Malakim terrify people. OTOH, that would create a huge amount of disturbance, so the murder would definitely be noted and investigated. jo ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1675 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.