From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Jun 17 00:35:06 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA07291 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 00:35:06 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id AAA20529 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 00:32:38 -0500 Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 00:32:38 -0500 Message-Id: <200006170532.AAA20529@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1679 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, June 17 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1679 In this digest: Re: IN> IN in DC? IN> Ho ho ho. Re: IN> Ho ho ho. Re: IN> Question about the speed of souls Re: IN> Question about the speed of souls Re: IN> Question about the speed of souls Re: IN> Question about the speed of souls IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1678 Re: IN> Question about the speed of souls IN> hello from Minnesota Re: IN> Endgame: The Beginning of the End Re: IN> Question about the speed of souls Re: IN> hello from Minnesota Re: IN> hello from Minnesota IN> Gammers Wanted In X... Re: IN> Question about the speed of souls RE: IN> Question about the speed of souls Re: IN> Question about the speed of souls Re: IN> Question about the speed of souls RE: IN> Question about the speed of souls Re: IN> Question about the speed of souls Re: IN> Question about the speed of souls Re: IN> Question about the speed of souls Re: IN> Question about the speed of souls Re: IN> Things my friends send me... [On Topic, Apropos ofNothing, Mildly Tastless] IN> Zorostrianism in In Nomine IN> andie@glue.umd.edu IN> A question of Elohite Dissonance RE: IN> Question about the speed of souls ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 00:48:54 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> IN in DC? >But hey...give me a call when you get here (703 780-5708). At the very >elast we can get together and trade war stories. :) Okay! Can I call you sometime tomorrow? What hours are good? Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 23:32:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Ho ho ho. It just came to me. I have no idea why. If you all think it works, I'll even send it in to the INC... :) Nicolas, Malakite Friend of Infants Corporeal Forces: 5 Strength 10 Agility: 10 Ethereal Forces: 4 Intelligence: 8 Precision: 8 Celestial Forces: 5 Perception: 10 Will: 10 Vessel (stout human male)/3, Charisma +2 Role: Street Santa/6 (Status 1) Skills: Detect Lies/2, Driving (sleigh)/2, Dodge/3, Emote/2, Fighting/4, Knowledge: Christmas Customs/3, Language (English)/3, Language (Spanish, French, German, Japanese)/1, Large Weapon (Sword)/2, Ranged Weapon (Assault Rifle)/3 Songs: Dreams (Celestial/2), Harmony (Ethereal/2), Light (Celestial/3), Motion (Celestial/4), Possession/4, Projection (Corporeal/1, Ethereal/2), Shields (All/3), Tongues (Corporeal/6) Attunements: Malakite of Children, Memories of Youth, Luck, Friend of Infants, Abracadabra Vows: Suffer not an evil to live, if it is my choice. Never allow myself to be captured by the forces of Hell. Never harm a child, for any reason. Always try to calm the fears of a child. Artifacts: Fiery Sword/3, Holy Pistol/3, AK-47/3 (Corporeal Artifact), all Summonable at Will (Eli really, really likes Nicolas…) Ever wonder why you don't hear all that much about pedophiles dressing up as Santa Claus, in order to prey on children? Nicolas is one of the reasons why. He's not a Word-Bound, but he gets the job done. Jobs, actually: his primary task is to try to make kid's lives a little nicer, one little tyke at a time, around the holiday season. His secondary job is to waste anyone who's maliciously trying to hurt kids. He's good at both. Most inexperienced demons assume that any angels associated with the non-religious aspects of Christmas would be Mercurians of Flowers or Trade, and get an unpleasant surprise when the local street Santa pulls out a flaming sword or AK-47 out of his sack. More experienced Diabolicals avoid Santas completely during the holiday season. You never know. Nicolas would _like_ the Word of Christmas, but he realizes that it's not very likely: he's interested in making the holiday fun for kids, not in the religious aspects, so there's no way that Laurence would sit still for it. He might get the Word of Santa Claus, but that's a little limiting. As it stands, Nicolas gets a pretty free hand from his Superior, and that's a precious thing to have, in and of itself. He's also on good terms with Eli and Yves: the first has given him the Abracadabra Attunement and some nifty toys, and Yves has offered Divine Destiny several times. Nicolas keeps refusing it: sometimes you just don't want to know if the sweet little kid on your knee could grow up to slaughter millions. One thing Nicolas keeps quiet about is his interaction with various ethereal versions of Santa Claus that pop up. He doesn't consider them "evil", and Christopher has been scrupulous about not contradicting him, so he can deal with them on a regular basis. His Superior would probably even protect him if Dominic found out, but why go looking for trouble? In fact, for a Malakim, Nicolas is pretty calm about ethereals in general: he's more concerned with dealing with the Servitors of Greed that cross his path from time to time (Mammon is _not_ pleased that there's an angel out there that's warping one of his best creations). So far, they haven't done too well against him. Demons of Greed begin plotting, word gets out, eventually an ethereal who's reluctantly allied to Hell hears about it and tells a Santa, Santa tells Nicolas … and the next thing you know, some guy on the street with a red suit, beard and a bell pulls out a flaming sword on said demons. Ho ho ho. Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of Now I Have A Machinegun Too __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 09:33:45 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Ho ho ho. So how does Nicolas the Angel get along with St. Nicholas, 4th-century Turkish bishop, who is the historical root of the image? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 09:50:44 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Question about the speed of souls Maurice Lane wrote: > When a mortal dies, how fast does his/her soul get to > Heaven/Hell/reincarnation/dissolution? I recall reading in one of the books that the time-lag between death and arrival in Heaven is pretty random. Some people show up immediately; some are centuries late. So far, no one has arrived who died in the future... I'd suppose the same would apply to Hell. I know of no canonical answer for reincarnation or dissolution. Personally, I like the idea that some of the latter two classes hang out for long periods in the Ethereal Plane. In particular, a Buddhist or Hindu would find it perfectly right and proper to spend some time in an Ethereal paradise or purgatory before embarking on the next incarnation. There's also the option of hanging about as a ghost, on the Corporeal Plane, which David Edelstein explored in a Pyramid article, if I recall correctly. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 09:10:52 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Question about the speed of souls Earl Wajenberg wrote: > There's also the option of hanging about as a ghost, on the > Corporeal Plane, which David Edelstein explored in a Pyramid > article, if I recall correctly. Actually, that was an article by Kris Overstreet, a condensed and edited version of which appeared in the Corporeal Player's Guide. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 12:14:28 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Question about the speed of souls At 9:27 PM -0700 6/15/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >When a mortal dies, how fast does his/her soul get to >Heaven/Hell/reincarnation/dissolution? GM FIat. In GIN, we said that it could be anywhere from instantly, to millennia. Where are they in the meantime? Who knows -- maybe Limbo. Ghosts are another thing altogether. - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. But now with a computer desk! Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 11:02:40 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Question about the speed of souls Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > GM FIat. In GIN, we said that it could be anywhere from instantly, > to millennia. Where are they in the meantime? Who knows -- maybe > Limbo. Ghosts are another thing altogether. Oh boy. Now we have souls floating around without going anywhere for millennia, in canon. You gonna make a list of all the canon additions from GIN that writers have to pay attention to in the future? - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 13:27:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Diane J Donaldson Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1678 On Thu, 15 Jun 2000, Eric Bertish wrote: > > > I am about to move to Washington, DC. > > > > Do we have any IN players from this area on the list? Feel free to contact > > me offlist if you like. > > I and my gang of cronies live in or near Fairfax, VA. It's an angel > game, with two male and two female players. > > Unfortunately, I can't offer you an opening right now. I've already > added a new player and don't want to unbalance the mix just yet. > > Also, having been on the list, you're privy to my Secret GM Plots (tm) > and that would take some of the fun out of it, unless you can do a > VERY convincing impression of amnesia. > What he said. My group plays in or around College Park-Laurel, MD, and my campaign runs fairly infrequently (one or two months out of the year) as I share our gaming nights with other GMs in our group. We're also an angel game, with five players of the male persuasion. That's almost more than I can handle right now! However, if you need some pointers to good gaming stores in the area, or information on the area in general (especially Maryland), let me know! djd ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 13:57:09 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Question about the speed of souls At 0:27 -0400 6/16/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >When a mortal dies, how fast does his/her soul get to >Heaven/Hell/reincarnation/dissolution? Is it >instantaneous, or is there a hand-waving lag time? I >don't remember seeing anything in canon. There's a canon answer somewhere, though I don't recall exactly where at the moment. The lag is variable, from seconds to (probably rarely) centuries. >I'm wondering this because, if there's any elapsed >time at all between death and final reward/punishment, >there may be some Servitors of Destiny/Fate lurking on >earth in their celestial form, fiery swords in hand, >waiting for blessed/damned souls to shuffle off this >mortal coil*... In general, I don't think the souls are anywhere findable in the interval; more that the Forces dissipate on Earth, and then reassemble at the gates to Heaven or Hell some time later. (I think this is in canon, too, but I'm less sure.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 13:19:51 -0500 From: "Tony Lavalle" Subject: IN> hello from Minnesota Are ther any players in Minneapolis Minnesota. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Jun 2000 18:34:28 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> Endgame: The Beginning of the End On 14 Jun 2000 17:49:49 -0700 Casca wrote: >I like getting response back on my work. Constructive criticism is best, but >compliments are good too. I mean, you know your fiancee loves you, but don't well, insofar as constructive critism/compliments, my favorite scenes were with Eli and the three Habbalah in Shal-Mari (because their departure both echoes the departure of the rich man from Jesus' presence and because "they were filled with emptiness" shows Dissonance that gives them a chance at Redemption) and the revelation of Eli before the Seraphim Council and the resulting changes in Dominic and Khalid [*especially* Khalid!]). >you enjoy hearing her say it anyway? Same thing with me and my writing. yes, true. same with me and my writing. i'd like to see more in future chapters about the Creation Tether in Hell and those three Habbalah who approached Eli already. question about the "Third Messiah" thing--Shavon is guessing Jesus' mortal lifetime represented the First Messiah, and Jesus' return is the Second. does this mean Endgame happens after Jesus returns to judge mankind, or is there a different sequence of messiahs? -=|horsefly|=- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 14:54:15 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Question about the speed of souls At 11:02 AM -0500 6/16/00, David Edelstein wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> GM FIat. In GIN, we said that it could be anywhere from instantly, >> to millennia. Where are they in the meantime? Who knows -- maybe >> Limbo. Ghosts are another thing altogether. > >Oh boy. Now we have souls floating around without going anywhere for >millennia, in canon. You gonna make a list of all the canon additions >from GIN that writers have to pay attention to in the future? Sure. It'll be called Second Edition. _That_ one seemed implicit from something that was in H&H, IIRC. No, I can't look it up right now, I'm singing to a sleepy-but-cranky baby. - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. But now with a computer desk! Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 14:13:07 -0500 From: "Eeyore" Subject: Re: IN> hello from Minnesota - -----Original Message----- From: Tony Lavalle To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Friday, June 16, 2000 1:29 PM Subject: IN> hello from Minnesota >Are ther any players in Minneapolis Minnesota. Not as far as I can tell. I mean, I live in Mpls, but I can't get any of those I game with really interested in IN. J. Michael Neal ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 14:37:38 -0500 From: "Tony Lavalle" Subject: Re: IN> hello from Minnesota how many can you get I can get one more to play, than who would run? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eeyore" To: Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 2:13 PM Subject: Re: IN> hello from Minnesota > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tony Lavalle > To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > Date: Friday, June 16, 2000 1:29 PM > Subject: IN> hello from Minnesota > > > >Are ther any players in Minneapolis Minnesota. > > Not as far as I can tell. I mean, I live in Mpls, but I can't get any of > those I game with really interested in IN. > > J. Michael Neal > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 16:06:11 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Gammers Wanted In X... Might I suggest that everyone here with web-access rush madly, like crazed lemmings, over to http://www.sjgames.com/gamerfinder/ ? That way we can find each other without _entirely_ taking over the list... O:> (No, I'm not in ranty-mode on it -- but there is now a resource, so if everyone checks it first, there's a chance that at least those who find what they're looking for will be able to settle it in private email...) - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. But now with a computer desk! Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 18:49:03 -0500 From: "Kiara S. Legner" Subject: Re: IN> Question about the speed of souls Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > GM FIat. In GIN, we said that it could be anywhere from instantly, > to millennia. Where are they in the meantime? Who knows -- maybe > Limbo. Ghosts are another thing altogether. David Edelstein wrote: >Oh boy. Now we have souls floating around without going anywhere for >millennia, in canon. You gonna make a list of all the canon additions >from GIN that writers have to pay attention to in the future? I do *not* see anywhere in Elizabeth's post where she states that Gurps in canon for IN. In fact, it actually says "GM FIat." This list has covered the fact that GURPS is *not* IN canon several times already, so what's the big deal? GURPS is GURPS. IN is IN. Ki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 17:23:02 -0700 From: Steven Feldon Subject: RE: IN> Question about the speed of souls Um, perhaps you missed the discussion last week where it turned out that GIN _is_ now IN canon, and the resulting minor furor. I wish you were right, but currently, I don't think you are. . . . steve - -----Original Message----- From: Kiara S. Legner [mailto:PhoenixRising@horusinc.com] Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 4:49 PM To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: Re: IN> Question about the speed of souls Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > GM FIat. In GIN, we said that it could be anywhere from instantly, > to millennia. Where are they in the meantime? Who knows -- maybe > Limbo. Ghosts are another thing altogether. David Edelstein wrote: >Oh boy. Now we have souls floating around without going anywhere for >millennia, in canon. You gonna make a list of all the canon additions >from GIN that writers have to pay attention to in the future? I do *not* see anywhere in Elizabeth's post where she states that Gurps in canon for IN. In fact, it actually says "GM FIat." This list has covered the fact that GURPS is *not* IN canon several times already, so what's the big deal? GURPS is GURPS. IN is IN. Ki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 19:27:35 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Question about the speed of souls "Kiara S. Legner" wrote: > This list has covered the fact that GURPS is *not* IN canon several times > already, so what's the big deal? GURPS is GURPS. IN is IN. And GURPS IN is In Nomine canon. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 19:27:44 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Question about the speed of souls Steven Feldon wrote: > > Um, perhaps you missed the discussion last week where it turned out that GIN > _is_ now IN canon, and the resulting minor furor. I wish you were right, > but currently, I don't think you are. . . . She isn't. In fairness, I think that discussion occurred on the Pyramid In Nomine board, not here. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 17:47:20 -0700 From: Steven Feldon Subject: RE: IN> Question about the speed of souls Yike. Then, my apologies, Kiara. I don't usually read the Pyramid boards, but I just happened to this week, since I had a sick day. :/ steve - -----Original Message----- From: David Edelstein [mailto:amadan@amadan.org] Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 5:28 PM To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: Re: IN> Question about the speed of souls Steven Feldon wrote: > > Um, perhaps you missed the discussion last week where it turned out that GIN > _is_ now IN canon, and the resulting minor furor. I wish you were right, > but currently, I don't think you are. . . . She isn't. In fairness, I think that discussion occurred on the Pyramid In Nomine board, not here. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 20:50:35 -0500 From: "Kiara S. Legner" Subject: Re: IN> Question about the speed of souls >Um, perhaps you missed the discussion last week where it turned out that GIN >_is_ now IN canon, and the resulting minor furor. I wish you were right, >but currently, I don't think you are. . . . *WHAT*????? Last week was busy, but I thought I'd read everything. Obviously, I was on a completely different planet. David's apology will hit the message I'm sure he'll be replying to telling me that I'm blind... Ki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 20:53:22 -0500 From: "Kiara S. Legner" Subject: Re: IN> Question about the speed of souls Steven Feldon wrote: > > Um, perhaps you missed the discussion last week where it turned out that GIN > _is_ now IN canon, and the resulting minor furor. I wish you were right, > but currently, I don't think you are. . . . David Edelstein wrote: >She isn't. In fairness, I think that discussion occurred on the Pyramid >In Nomine board, not here. Ok. I haven't been keeping up with Pyramid, so at least I don't have to head for the opthamologist for a new set of contact lenses. On the other hand, David, my apologies. I had no idea that GURPS IN was now canon, and I'm less than thrilled about it. Of course, I pick and choose what canon actually stays in my game, but it's still a silly idea. Grumpy Ki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 20:54:15 -0500 From: "Kiara S. Legner" Subject: Re: IN> Question about the speed of souls >Yike. Then, my apologies, Kiara. I don't usually read the Pyramid boards, >but I just happened to this week, since I had a sick day. :/ No apologies necessary. Ki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 20:59:33 -0500 From: "Kiara S. Legner" Subject: Re: IN> Question about the speed of souls >And GURPS IN is In Nomine canon. As I have now seen. After all the furor about hampster-ball Corporeal Songs of Shields, I thought GURPS was going to be a cross-over from IN to GURPS, not ever IN canon. I've just started doing some research into GURPS for a new IN campaign I'm working on, decided that I'm lifting concepts, and also decided that I'm not getting anywhere near the game mechanics. Ki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 18:07:20 -0400 From: "EDG" Subject: Re: IN> Things my friends send me... [On Topic, Apropos ofNothing, Mildly Tastless] > For those of you who know ancient Greek, I unearthed the verb `eliphaino, > meaning "I have no idea." For those of you who don't know ancient Greek, > I'll just mention that the ` is a voiced breath, similar to the initial > sound in "How 'bout those Dodgers!" *uncontrollable hideous laughter* I love you, Andrew. ObIN: What happens if God isn't necessarily a hopped-up Ethereal - but Blandine and Beleth are? - -EDG news at 11. Yes, this is leading up to something. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 23:38:24 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Zorostrianism in In Nomine >Perhaps demons started it. Zorastrianism is dualistic, and is thus very >appealing to demons who would very much like to believe that Lucifier *is* >God's equal and that they therefore *can* win the War. The Dualism aspect is highly overated-Zoraster himself believed that Ahura-Mazda let Ahrimane live out of more absent mindedness than anything else (perhaps even mercy). Only later did Zorastrian theologians attribute Ahrimane's survival as a matter of being unable to defeat him. Something regularly done during the Middle Ages amongst Christians-and many today. Plus Jews during the Holocost. besides never was it stated that Ahrimane could win the war.... In a way it's kinduv common sense-no one ever chooses to do evil-they just do what others believe to be evil. The Standard is merely set by the ones who know and know best. (I go with love...and you'll know the way if you trust in the Maker) - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 18:01:16 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: IN> andie@glue.umd.edu >However, if you need some pointers to good gaming stores in the area, or >information on the area in general (especially Maryland), let me know! Yes, please. Whatever you think might be helpful. I'll be living downtown, BTW -- DuPont Circle area. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 00:52:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Philip J. Moyer" Subject: IN> A question of Elohite Dissonance A question for all you players and readers and gamesmasters out there... As we know, Elohim gain dissonance from acting on their subjective desires and emotions, instead of rationally. Sure, they can -have- emotions and desires, but as long as the emotions don't influence their judgment or actions, they're safe from dissonance. Now, in my game, an Elohite has just been affected by a demon of Lust who just had Dark Desire used on her. She failed her will roll, and now for the next 10 hours, she desires -coffee-. (Hey, the demon wanted to prove his superiority over her, not get her to jump him in his office... he had an image to maintain). My question is, according to the rules of In Nomine, would the Elohite gain dissonance (and if so, how much?) from satisfying her Dark Desire for - -Coffee-? Or would it not happen due to the fact that it was forced on her by the demon of Lust? Or would she only gain dissonance from going to irrational lengths to obtain coffee (holding up a Starbux) instead of rationally purchasing cups from the nearest cheap vending machine? (for what it's worth, she -did- succeed on her Perception roll when the Essence used to power Dark Desire was spent, so she knows -something- happened... but that was already after the Will roll had failed.) Any advice, suggestions, etc. will be willingly appreciated! - --- Philip Philip Moyer----------------Qapla'-------------pmoyer@jurai.net "To boldly go where no one has gone before!"-Capt. J. L. Picard "Roads? Where we're going we don't NEED roads!"-Dr. E. L. Brown "If it can be dreamed, It can be done."- ReRob Mandeville "Someday we'll find it, the Rainbow Connection, The Lovers, - ---------- The Dreamers, and Me."- Kermit The Frog ------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 01:33:23 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: RE: IN> Question about the speed of souls At 20:23 -0400 6/16/00, Steven Feldon wrote: >Um, perhaps you missed the discussion last week where it turned out that GIN >_is_ now IN canon, and the resulting minor furor. I wish you were right, >but currently, I don't think you are. . . . Yes and no. There are a few things that got done in GURPS IN that will back-propagate into IN, but it's not true that *everything* in GURPS IN will do so. Basically, GURPS IN is supposed to reflect IN canon. A few things came up while writing it that needed clarification; the same thing has happened numerous times for IN supplements. As a line, GURPS specifies things more tightly than IN does, it was inevitable that some questions would have to be answered that IN hasn't yet bothered with (and in a number of cases, probably wouldn't). GURPS IN is canon in the same sense that "canon" answers on this list and in the FAQ are canon -- they reflect additional thinking about details of the game that may never actually get published in the line (since they're often "fiddly bits"). But if they do, they should be consistent as much as possible. For the case in point, I seem to recall that this was either proto-canon or partly implied in canon, or both. The GURPS version simply codified it specifically. - ---Walter ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1679 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.