From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Jun 23 11:11:23 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA11884 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 11:11:22 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id LAA24317 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 11:08:27 -0500 Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 11:08:27 -0500 Message-Id: <200006231608.LAA24317@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1689 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, June 23 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1689 In this digest: Re: IN> Interventions and Balseraph resonance (Was: Running a mystery) IN> True Names IN> Adventure Seed: Holocost of the Grigori Re: IN> Adventure Seed: Holocost of the Grigori Re: IN> True Names Re: IN> Adventure Seed: Holocost of the Grigori Re: IN> Late Product (Humor, blessit, humor!) Re: IN>Running a mystery (Was:Question re Balseraph resonance) Re: IN> Hmm. Re: IN> PC Creation Help Re:IN> Hmm Re: IN>Running a mystery (Was:Question re Balseraph resonance) Re: IN> Adventure Seed: Holocost of the Grigori IN> Janus's Disonnance Condition (was PC Creation Help) Re: IN> True Names Re: IN> Adventure Seed: Holocost of the Grigori Re: IN> True Names Re: IN>Running a mystery (Was:Question re Balseraph resonance) Re: IN> Late Product (Humor, blessit, humor!) IN> Is it Science? Or just Munchkinism? Re: IN> Interventions and Balseraph resonance (Was: Running a mystery) Re: IN>Running a mystery (Was:Question re Balseraph resonance) Re: IN> Is it Science? Or just Munchkinism? IN> Six Fists of Calabim came a knockin' Re: IN> Is it Science? Or just Munchkinism? Re: IN> Is it Science? Or just Munchkinism? Re: IN> True Names Re: IN> Is it Science? Or just Munchkinism? Re: IN> Is it Science? Or just Munchkinism? Re: IN> Late Product (Humor, blessit, humor!) Re: IN> Six Fists of Calabim came a knockin' Re: IN> Late Product (Humor, blessit, humor!) IN> [RFP] Angelic PBEM call for players Re: IN> Six Fists of Calabim came a knockin' Re: IN> Is it Science? Or just Munchkinism? Re: IN> Is it Science? Or just Munchkinism? Re: IN> Is it Science? Or just Munchkinism? IN> Nephilim Resistance Task Force Re: IN> Is it Science? Or just Munchkinism? Re: IN> Nephilim Resistance Task Force Re: IN> Nephilim Resistance Task Force ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 13:28:05 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Interventions and Balseraph resonance (Was: Running a mystery) At 12:02 -0400 6/22/00, Laurent wrote: >On a different topic: how long do the effects of the Balseraph resonance last? The book specifies an >amount of time during which the target will believe whatever the Balseraph says (roughly). But what >happens to the target after that amount of time? Does the lie become a vague memory, do they >suddenly realize the truth, or what? I treat it much like I treat Shedite possession -- the subject *usually* rationalizes away his actions somehow. However, with the Bal resonance, there's a fairly good chance the target may simply think he was fast-talked by the Bal, and realized afterwards that it really didn't make sense. Human memories are pretty mutable; it's quite possible that if a Bal told someone "I'm a cop", the person would later remember seeing his ID and badge, even though the demon didn't have either. But seeing them would explain why the person *thought* the demon was a cop. OK, so maybe the badge was fake -- how should *he* know that? >Anyway, when the players asked the agent why he opened fire, the effect of the Balseraph resonance >was over. I gave the agent a very vague and confused recollection of the events. i.e., he was >certain the suspect had a gun, but coudn't tell why he was so sure of it. Was that the right thing >to do? I'd say that's fine. > Or should he have said: "oh, it's that guy right there who told me the man had a gun, and >somehow I believed him!" ? He might remember the Bal as a helpful bystander who shouted out "Look out! He's got a gun!" or something like that, depending on how the Bal set this up. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 13:26:55 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> True Names Is there any canon ruling on what a "true name" is? Is it the name the person thinks of themselves by? If you've been baptized with a particular name, or undergone a similar religious ceremonial naming, is *that* the "true name"? Do animals have true names? Do celestials? What are they good for? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 13:34:04 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Adventure Seed: Holocost of the Grigori I just had a weird adventure idea that I was wondering if I could run by anyone... Basically the idea is that a Grigori named Lazarus has fallen due to...well after 10,000 years without God let's see how well your enjoying the modern world. Lazarus thus hits on a rather bold plan for his salvation....as insane as it is (he's dissonant-whatever the Grigori flaw is-he has it) in that he view the Nephilim as why God banished the Grigori to the Earth to live amongst humans and more or less have no lives but human lives... Kill all the Nephilim. Basically since I suspect the Grigori keep close watch on their offspring this little fellow has got a full database of all the living children of Grigori descent (about 1.4 million...I think that's a round good figure) and is intending to murder them all, their children if they have them, and the like. Slight Initial Problem. 1:) How exactly would a Grigori know all the living descendants? 2:) Does he intend to do this entirely by himself? Will it cause dissaonance? Well Lazarus isn't very pleasant in any case and by sheer chance the PCs happen upon Lazarus as he is working on a young family of the Nephilim. In all likelihood he's going to escape to move on to his next targets but we'll have clues onto his path.... Methinks being angels they'd rather stop the maurader of his massacre. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 13:53:18 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Adventure Seed: Holocost of the Grigori In IN, there are "Nephallim" and then there are "Children of the Grigori." Both are descended from Grigori, but the Nephallim are monstrous, and if they aren't born evil, they're sure drawn that way. The Children look normal, tend to extra forces and symphonic awareness, and aren't particularly evil, maybe even tending to good. So is this Lazarus guy going after Nephallim specifically, or after Children, too? Sounds like he's going after Children, since 1.4 million sounds like a lot of ogrish monsters to be hiding out on Earth. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 13:59:37 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> True Names At 14:26 -0400 6/22/00, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Is there any canon ruling on what a "true name" is? (At the risk of setting off the "GURPS IN canon" thread again....) This came up in the final edit of GURPS IN. My email archives on the subject include a note from Elizabeth that's it's discussed in the APG and IPG somewhere in a sidebar. (I don't have them at work to check, though.) She also wrote up a brief glossary entry for it, which really only applies to angels and demons -- something to the effect that it's the highly-summarized theme of an angel, or a demon's personal symphony. Sort of like summarizing Beethoven's Fifth as "dah-dah-dah-DUUH", I guess... a recognizable abstract or shorthand. >Is it the name the person thinks of themselves by? For humans, I'd say that's likely -- the name they choose to use for themselves. (There's no canon answer that I'm aware of -- the CPG would be the logical place, but I don't recall anything on the subject.) >If you've been baptized with a particular name, or undergone >a similar religious ceremonial naming, is *that* the "true >name"? Personally, I'd say that would be the case only if the human thought of that as his "true name". Many probably would. But I doubt the ceremony itself has any real effect, since that would imply some sort of Symphonic power, which would pretty much make it a form of sorcery, I think. > Do animals have true names? Well, cats do, of course. (If you believe Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats is authoritative, anyway.) By my argument above, any animal that had a name it recognized as meaning itself might have that as a true name. > Do celestials? Yes. > What >are they good for? Sorcerous summonings, the Song of Tongues (celestial, I think), sending Essence to someone in Limbo, and just knowing them (Yves' Seraphim). Those were the four references that turned up in GURPS IN; I think they're all straight from IN canon. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 18:03:47 GMT From: "Erich S. Arendall" Subject: Re: IN> Adventure Seed: Holocost of the Grigori >So is this Lazarus guy going after Nephallim specifically, >or after Children, too? Sounds like he's going after Children, >since 1.4 million sounds like a lot of ogrish monsters to be >hiding out on Earth. 1.4 Sounds like a lot in general. IIRC (I don't have the CPG at hand), celestial and ethereal offspring do not have instant immortality, which would cut down that number greatly. I see the combined number of all the celestial and ethereal offspring numbering maybe around 500,000 at the very most. Although, I'd probably limit it to a couple thousand at one time in the world in any other campaign. - -Erich S. Arendall "Shadow Sprite" Demon of Critical Failures at the Worst Possible Time for Players and the Best Time for GMs, Impudite of The Game - ------------------------- Touched by an Impudite http://www.impudite.com Go Directly to the Blog http://www.impudite.com/abt-blog.asp ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 14:35:30 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Late Product (Humor, blessit, humor!) At 1:34 PM -0700 6/21/00, Robert Knop wrote: >On Wed, 21 Jun 2000, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >> There's a (highly favorable) review of INS/MV at http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_3170.html . (Watch out >> for weird text sizes -- they're pounding on a few bugs.) > >If I remember it correctly, this is also the same review that thrashed >on the SJG version as being uninteresting.... Yeah, true. So? It had The Paragraph in it. - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 14:56:24 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN>Running a mystery (Was:Question re Balseraph resonance) At 10:30 PM -0400 6/21/00, Walter Milliken wrote: >I And names >aren't all that much trouble, either, if demons have common use-names in >Helltongue that are plausible English (or whatever) names. Some of those >Biblical/Hebrew names are somewhat suspicious, but then humans use some of >those, too. While I was in the nursery all the time with Iolanthe, I heard that someone had named their baby boy "Zadoc." I instantly perked up, because I _knew_ that name -- I'd named a NPC Judgmenter Sadoc (which is the same thing, only wth different letters)... - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:00:08 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Hmm. At 12:18 AM -0700 6/22/00, Jo Hart wrote: >>From: Maurice Lane >>> >>It's starting to sound like a Button Men concept. :) >> > >Now THAT is a brilliant idea! > >Beth, Andrew .. any chance of someone suggesting this to Cheapass? :) First, it gets suggested to SJ -- Andrew, this is your hat, methinks? O:> (I like the idea too. I'm just gibbering here.) - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 14:58:25 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> PC Creation Help At 9:37 PM -0500 6/21/00, Kiara S. Legner wrote: >And I'm stumped. How do I translate a fantasy game chaotic-good barbarian >type into an IN character that is similar? Saint of Michael. Chaotic-good barbarian type soul who's finally managed to convince the Big Guy to let him go down for some reason... O:> ------------------------------ Date: 22 Jun 2000 18:47:18 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re:IN> Hmm On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 20:04:49 -0700 (PDT) Maurice Lane wrote: [snip] >>(Personally, I'd put Zadkiel in opposition to Magog.) >It's starting to sound like a Button Men concept. :) they're brought to you by the same company.... ;) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:11:41 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN>Running a mystery (Was:Question re Balseraph resonance) At 1:20 PM -0400 6/22/00, Walter Milliken wrote: >>Speaking of the last, is the true name of a mortal their full given name, or >>something else? > >I'd see it as either their full name, or the name the person thinks of >himself as. . o O (You mean that there's a decent chance some Seraph of Destiny would pick up "Archangel Beth" for me??) (Hey, I've only had the nickname for over half my life now...!) (Oh, man, one-word Computer Handles...) You could also rule, for those people who were baptized, that it's that name(s). [...] >though his driver's license reads "Fred Jones". And then there are >rock stars.... "The artist formerly known as Prince"? - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 13:08:52 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> Adventure Seed: Holocost of the Grigori > 1:) How exactly would a Grigori know all the living descendants? He wouldn't. But there's a few Demon Princes who might know and would be delighted to tell him. There's a few ARCHANGELS who know and might be delighted to tell him. > 2:) Does he intend to do this entirely by himself? Will it cause > dissaonance? With 1.4 million, he can't, unless they all happen to live in the same city. With 500,000, he still can't. Now, if there's just a few thousand Nephallim, and he kills, say, one a week, he could make this his life's quest. > -Charlemagne Or he could get help. A band of demons (or better yet, Outcast angels) is contacted. Their mission, should they choose to accept it: sneak into a maximum-security Angelic tether and steal a top-secret list of all the Nephallim. They need to have the list to both lure Lazarus out into the open and to get the attention of their old Archangels, who they desperately want to have appear and wax Lazarus. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:17:09 -0400 From: Brandon Quina Subject: IN> Janus's Disonnance Condition (was PC Creation Help) Walter Milliken wrote: > The only possible problem I see with this is that the Wind's > dissonance condition can be a bit of a pain, if the campaign stays > localized too long. But the GM and the other players can help out with > that by finding errands to send him off on, if the other PCs are stuck > somewhere. I've always had a bit of a problem with Janus' dissonance condition, but this doesn't really surprise me. ;) I have problems with a lot of the Dissonance conditions (especially for the various Demon Princes) in the game. (: One of the little changes I've made is to Janus' dissonance condition is that his angels aren't bound to move around /every three days/ though they do move around quite a bit as a side effect of their new dissonance condition. You see, they have to constantly keep better working on changes and ensueing mayhem. ;) As long as a Servitor of the Wind can find something to do -- disrupting normality without causing /too/ much trouble -- and generally do their jobs...then they can stay. If they can't find anything to do, then they either have to move on to somewhere else and try to find a new place to hang...or they start taking dissonance if they 'get bored'. ;) I've found it works out very well... If only I could find something better for Vapula. ;) - -- Brandon L. Quina (39755700 ; brandonq@bellsouth.net) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:40:09 -0400 From: "Galen G. Silversmith" Subject: Re: IN> True Names > Return-Path: milliken@io.com > >Is it the name the person thinks of themselves by? > For humans, I'd say that's likely -- the name they choose to use for > themselves. (There's no canon answer that I'm aware of -- the CPG would > be the logical place, but I don't recall anything on the subject.) I'd vote that a human's (and other mortal's, at least) true name is a similiar summary to an angel's or demon's true name; in the case of a mortal's, it is a summary of their potential destiny, fate, and other impacts on the symphony. At least, IMO. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:51:57 -0400 From: "Galen G. Silversmith" Subject: Re: IN> Adventure Seed: Holocost of the Grigori > Return-Path: ben@zianet.com > > 2:) Does he intend to do this entirely by himself? Will it cause > > dissaonance? > > With 1.4 million, he can't, unless they all happen to live in the same city. > With 500,000, he still can't. Now, if there's just a few thousand > Nephallim, and he kills, say, one a week, he could make this his life's > quest. Its a simple (ha!) related rates issue. If each of these 1.4 million has the average number of ofspring (2.4 or so, worldwide average) over a child bearing lifespan of 50 years, or so (with an additional 24 years after that that he can off them without worrying about additional offspring)... let's assume that 10million of these 1.4 million are in their child bearing years. (more than 2/3ths). These 1million people will have 2.4million children, over fifty years, or 120k children a year. That means, in the first year, there will be a traget of 3300 victims a *day*, at least, to beat inflation. Sounds like he needs a small army to me. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 18:21:06 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> True Names At 15:40 -0400 6/22/00, Galen G. Silversmith wrote: >I'd vote that a human's (and other mortal's, at least) true name is a >similiar summary to an angel's or demon's true name; in the case of a >mortal's, it is a summary of their potential destiny, fate, and other >impacts on the symphony. At least, IMO. The problem with that is that the nature of celestials is much clearer and simpler than a human's. Thus, it's more amenable to a naming convention that equates "who" with "what". Humans are much more mutable and diffuse in nature, having aspects that mirror various themes in the Symphony to different degrees, all at the same time, and then shifting radically a little while later (at least by celestial standards). The analogy I use in my own head is that celestial nature is like a crystal, relatively well-ordered and simple, while human nature is more like an amorphous material like concrete -- lots of different stuff all mixed together, and a bit lumpy.... Thus it's possible to describe a celestial as a unique individual by describing his self; the same is not really true for humans. Or so I see it. (None of this is particularly close to canon, or being canon, as far as I know.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:38:58 -0700 From: Ryan Elias Subject: Re: IN>Running a mystery (Was:Question re Balseraph resonance) "Erich S. Arendall" wrote: > The Kyrio PC in my game tends to focus on anything with a > true name of only one word - which makes it very hard to disguise the > celestials amongst them. One thing you could do if this is really a problem is to give the Kyrio the name of a possessed celestial's role (if it's a high enough level, maybe?) rather than the celestial's actual name. Cheers, Ryan "We know that when good fortune favours two such men it stands to reason we deserve it too!" -Fiddler on the Roof, "To Life!" ------------------------------ Date: 22 Jun 2000 22:46:25 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> Late Product (Humor, blessit, humor!) On Thu, 22 Jun 2000 09:51:43 PDT Jo Hart wrote: >(Every time I say that lots of Americans hate the French for no reason, >David gets irate (even though it does seem to be true) and I don't want to >be responsible for his blood pressure rises :) ) i don't hate *the French.* i just hate French. i've never been able to get my brain around a language that uses far more letters than are actually pronounced in any given word. combined with my animosity towards French for its muddying the English language, i have a low tolerance for the tongue, but not the people ;) -=|horsefly|=- If I ever wanted to say 'gwrthwynebiad', I'd probably kill myself by choking on my own tongue. =) - --John Karakash ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 18:58:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Is it Science? Or just Munchkinism? OK, random thought experiment time. This came to me while I was taking the train in to work (four hours each day when I can do nothing but read. And they wonder why I insist on working in the City). Take a Saint (non-reincarnated kind). 7 Forces to start, right? Good. Now, have a AA come by, and in the name of Complete Implausibility, have said AA gift the Saint with 11 Forces. Personal ones. According to the CPG, page 88, Saints are "no longer being limited by their human potential", so this should be possible. Question #1: Is this character even remotely human anymore? Question #2: Assuming that this works, you get a character that has access to at least one Servitor Attunement, has no dissonance worries and transcends human potentials. Why bother with angels? Question #3: Considering that the character now has more angelic Forces than human ones, would he or she have _any_ kind of access to resonances? Extra credit for the first person who can come up with a good rationalization for _any_ Archangel to do something so inane... :) Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of Lilith Studies __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 23:21:17 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Interventions and Balseraph resonance (Was: Running a mystery) On Thu, 22 Jun 2000, Laurent wrote: > On a different topic: how long do the effects of the Balseraph resonance last? The book specifies an > amount of time during which the target will believe whatever the Balseraph says (roughly). But what > happens to the target after that amount of time? Does the lie become a vague memory, do they > suddenly realize the truth, or what? (IMO) It completely depends on how believable and/or supported the lie is. If you're wearing a clown suit and you tell the officer at the desk, "I'm an undercover cop in this department; please let me in," it's VERY unlikely that they'll continue to find that normal after it wears off. On the other hand, if you're dressed right, walk the walk and talk the talk, and convince them of the same, they probably won't think twice about it after the resonance wears off. > E.g. IMC, a Balseraph used his resonance on an FBI agent to cause an incident. the FBI agent was > about to arrest a suspect, and the Balseraph convinced him that the suspect had a gun and was about > to open fire. In the chase that followed, the agent was firing at the suspect, the Elohite > (colleague of the FBI agent) used a corporeal Shield to protect the suspect, and the Kyrio possessed > the agent at the very last second to stop him. Obviously, the suspect was completely innocent and > didn't have any gun... > Anyway, when the players asked the agent why he opened fire, the effect of the Balseraph resonance > was over. I gave the agent a very vague and confused recollection of the events. i.e., he was > certain the suspect had a gun, but coudn't tell why he was so sure of it. Was that the right thing > to do? Or should he have said: "oh, it's that guy right there who told me the man had a gun, and > somehow I believed him!" ? (again, IMO) The agent would probably say, "I was _sure_ he had a gun - that man (Bal) over there even saw it! I may have been wrong, but he was definitely acting in a manner suggesting he had a gun and was about to open fire." The mind tends to fill in details, you see. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! "I feel like we could write a song with the title 'I Wanna Fuck You' and people would still say, 'I don't understand...explain to me what that song means.'" -- John Flansburgh (They Might Be Giants) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 22:57:36 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN>Running a mystery (Was:Question re Balseraph resonance) - --On Thu, Jun 22, 2000 11:11 +0100 Laurent wrote: >>> My darned angels resonate everything they see. If it gets >>> mentioned, they resonate it. They even resonate their friends once >>> in awhile, just to make sure they've been good. > > Facing the same situation (again), I started mentioning many, many > pointless things. All the time. Sometimes they'll be off-track for > hours before they realize it. An alternative would be to add > worthless details only when they start exagerating. It helps when you > make them look like fools. > >> Not entirely unreasonable, *if* they have a high Perception > > but highly annoying for the GM who has to make up a story for EACH > person in the damn building! > >> On the other hand, they'll get a lot of Infernal Interventions >> as a result, too.... > Must be the worst thing. Most of our interventions happen on > Perception rolls. And they usually go by packs of 2 or 3 (666's and > 111's mixed). Now what possible intervention can happen when an angel > rolls a 111 while trying to read someone's feelings?!? Especially > when that someone has no importance whatsoever in your scenario... > Here's a fun idea to try on a slow day with resonance-happy Angels. Rule the infernal interventions thus: You've used the resonance so much today, that it's stuck. You can't shut it off. At all. Minor disturbance in the symphony? Constantly? Makes it easy for nasty people with ideas about making you familiar with Trauma? Yes, but that's not the worst of it. Let 'em read everyone in a range (Celestial Forces in meters). Shallowly. Feed 'em grocery lists, a song stuck in someone's head*, bad jokes they heard on tv last night, until they break down in tears. And I bet it's distracting to have all that trivial information echoing in their heads. Yup, probably makes it real difficult to concentrate. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation (Resonance: 60Mhz) *If you want to make the range expand and contract randomly so that they hear many, many, MANY people each with a different song in their heads, we have no way of stopping you. Maybe it's a GAP commercial. Who knows. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 22:05:39 -0500 From: "Ben Chism" Subject: Re: IN> Is it Science? Or just Munchkinism? > Good. Now, have a AA come by, and in the name of > Complete Implausibility, have said AA gift the Saint > with 11 Forces. Personal ones. According to the CPG, > page 88, Saints are "no longer being limited by their > human potential", so this should be possible. > > Question #1: Is this character even remotely human > anymore? Yes, still basically human...the addition of forces doesn't change the state of a Human. A human is a human is a human. > Question #2: Assuming that this works, you get a > character that has access to at least one Servitor > Attunement, has no dissonance worries and transcends > human potentials. Why bother with angels? 1st, there just aren't that many humans that each superior has access to. It's easier to create an angel than track down a human who would be capabale and Worthy of the extra forces etc. 2nd, I'd say it's harder and more time consuming for an AA to do this to a human. 3rd, God wouldn't like it.....Humans aren't cannon fodder in the War, and using them as such would prob land even a AA in hot water. > Question #3: Considering that the character now has > more angelic Forces than human ones, would he or she > have _any_ kind of access to resonances? AFAIK, not in canon. Humans can't have resonances. > Extra credit for the first person who can come up with > a good rationalization for _any_ Archangel to do > something so inane... :) Well, let's see....Eli might just cause it's cool *G*. I could see Michael doing so for a deep cover operative, giving the Saint that much more power to deal with possible trouble on their own. I probably could come up with more, but lack of sleep keeps me from doing so *G* Ben Chism ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 13:25:39 +1000 From: "David Streeter" Subject: IN> Six Fists of Calabim came a knockin' What's everyone's opinions on collective nouns for In Nomine? This must have been discussed before, but I couldn't find a webpage, so I put one up on my site (http://www.zipworld.com.au/~surturz). I've copied it below - the one's with dots I couldn't think up. SurturZ Habbalite of Factions, Angel of Constructive Criticism - ------------ Collective Nouns for In Nomine HEAVEN A Choir of Angels A . of Saints A . of Bodhisattva An Army/Battallion/Brigade/Regiment/Platoon/Squad of Soldiers of God A Unity of Seraphim A . of Cherubim A . of Ofanim A Jury/Balance of Elohim A Flight of Malakim A . of Kyriotates A Circle of Mercurians (viz. "Circle of Friends") A . of Grigori An Inspiration of Menunim HELL A Band of Demons A Cabal of Sorcerors A Coven of Witches A Crypt of Undead A . of Balseraphs A Pack of Djinn A Fist of Calabim A Verdict of Habbalah A Tryst of Lilim A Writhe of Shedim A . of Impudites A Terror of Pachadim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 23:55:09 -0400 From: "Aaron Medwin" Subject: Re: IN> Is it Science? Or just Munchkinism? From: Maurice Lane > Extra credit for the first person who can come up with > a good rationalization for _any_ Archangel to do > something so inane... :) Eli... just because it'd be neat. Janus, because you *know* something like that would stir everything up. Yves, for some ineffable reason. Michael, both as an agent (which someone else mentioned) and to possibly create a hero for millions of people assuming this being ever went public. Litheroy(?), so he can reveal more of the nature of humanity. Jean(?), as an experiment on the nature of humanity. > Morgan (FAW) > Kyriotate of Destiny > Petitioner for the Word of Lilith Studies - -Aaron Medwin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 00:44:06 -0400 From: Mason Kramer Subject: Re: IN> Is it Science? Or just Munchkinism? > From: "Aaron Medwin" > From: Maurice Lane > >> Extra credit for the first person who can come up with >> a good rationalization for _any_ Archangel to do >> something so inane... :) > > Eli... just because it'd be neat. > Janus, because you *know* something like that would stir everything up. > Yves, for some ineffable reason. > Michael, both as an agent (which someone else mentioned) and to possibly > create a hero for millions of people assuming this being ever went public. > Litheroy(?), so he can reveal more of the nature of humanity. > Jean(?), as an experiment on the nature of humanity. Blandine, if the Saint is one who inspired dreams of hope. David, for a great leader who brought together a nation. Gabriel... is insane. No rationalization needeed. Laurence might do this for an honorable and effective general... Novalis... hasn't she already done this for Mother Teresa? Rationalizations are easy, especially when you keep in mind that even the GM doesn't have to know *all* the reasons an AA does something... ;) Mason, Angel of... um... I forget.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 23:50:34 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> True Names > At 14:26 -0400 6/22/00, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > >Is there any canon ruling on what a "true name" is? There is something about them in the CPG (knowing a demon's true name helps you in certain sorcerous rituals). - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 00:05:49 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Is it Science? Or just Munchkinism? Maurice Lane wrote: > Good. Now, have a AA come by, and in the name of > Complete Implausibility, have said AA gift the Saint > with 11 Forces. Personal ones. According to the CPG, > page 88, Saints are "no longer being limited by their > human potential", so this should be possible. Yes, it's possible. Theoretically, a Saint could be boosted up to 18 Forces, if an Archangel really wanted an 18-Force Saint. The reason why this is not done is that Saints are valuable for their *humanness* combined with their celestial characteristics -- there's absolutely no point to grafting Forces onto them like that. If an AA wants a celestial powerhouse, an 18-Force angel would serve him much better. > Question #1: Is this character even remotely human > anymore? Sure. Bordering on superhuman, but he's the same person he was....just stronger, smarter, stronger-willed, etc. > Question #2: Assuming that this works, you get a > character that has access to at least one Servitor > Attunement, has no dissonance worries and transcends > human potentials. Why bother with angels? See above. > Question #3: Considering that the character now has > more angelic Forces than human ones, would he or she > have _any_ kind of access to resonances? No. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 01:04:33 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Is it Science? Or just Munchkinism? From: "Maurice Lane" > > Extra credit for the first person who can come up with > a good rationalization for _any_ Archangel to do > something so inane... :) "Why did you do it, Eli?" "Got a perfectly good reason. Just can't tell you right now." - -Or- "Human, thy Lord has chosen you for an assignment of special significance." "What must I do, Gabriel?" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 09:50:27 +0100 From: "Laurent" Subject: Re: IN> Late Product (Humor, blessit, humor!) John Karakash wrote: > i've never been able to get my brain around a language that uses > far more letters than are actually pronounced in any given word. Can't blame you for that, really. I hate it myself. I was only kidding, anyway. Laurent. Singing a Song of Harmony to bring David's blood pressure back to normal :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 04:08:20 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Six Fists of Calabim came a knockin' From: "David Streeter" > > HEAVEN A Pack of Cherubim (since their celestial forms are all animals, after all) A Flurry of Ofanim > A Balance of Elohim (Nice choice there, David.) A Mass of Kyriotates An Observation of Grigori > HELL A Pride of Balseraphs (in honor of the First of their kind) ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jun 2000 10:11:47 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> Late Product (Humor, blessit, humor!) On Fri, 23 Jun 2000 09:50:27 +0100 Laurent wrote: >John Karakash wrote: >> i've never been able to get my brain around a language that uses >> far more letters than are actually pronounced in any given word. > >Can't blame you for that, really. I hate it myself. >I was only kidding, anyway. no hard feelings, but i think i said the above, not John. i'll take credit or blame for raising anyone's blood pressure as a result ;) -=|horsefly|=- Happiness is a laser designator and a friend in the artillery battalion. --Clayton A. Oliver ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 07:54:06 -0400 From: "EDG" Subject: IN> [RFP] Angelic PBEM call for players Request For Players: New PBEM "Ultima Veritas" Game Master: EDG No. of Players Needed: 2-4 Type of Game: Angelic, modern, starting-level characters Primary Game Location: To be chosen Character Restrictions: Must be angels or aligned with Heaven. (Non-angels must consult with GM.) Must be balanced starting characters for their types. Prefer Choirs other than Seraphim and Mercurians (we already have one of each). Character Due Date: June 28, 2000 (Wednesday) (character sheet and basic sketch) Game Start Date: July 3, 2000 (Monday) Additional Comments: Characters should be able to travel. PC slots will be assigned on a first come, first served basis. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 08:27:18 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Six Fists of Calabim came a knockin' - --On Fri, Jun 23, 2000 4:08 AM -0500 Prodigal wrote: > > A Pride of Balseraphs (in honor of the First of their kind) > Bucking for the word of Witty Puns That Take a Minute to Sink In, are we? Marc. Just Marc. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 09:37:16 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Is it Science? Or just Munchkinism? Might a Saint simply *grow* to 18 Forces, without Archangelic intervention, after enough time in Heaven? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 11:23:15 -0400 From: "Galen G. Silversmith" Subject: Re: IN> Is it Science? Or just Munchkinism? > Return-Path: earlw@mc.com > Might a Saint simply *grow* to 18 Forces, without Archangelic > intervention, after enough time in Heaven? I thought humans were limited to 15 forces, total. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 11:40:20 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Is it Science? Or just Munchkinism? - --On Friday, June 23, 2000 11:23 AM -0400 "Galen G. Silversmith" wrote: >> Return-Path: earlw@mc.com >> Might a Saint simply *grow* to 18 Forces, without Archangelic >> intervention, after enough time in Heaven? > > I thought humans were limited to 15 forces, total. > Stock humans. Saints, as I understand it, have transcended their merely human limitations. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 11:43:22 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Nephilim Resistance Task Force On the SJGames Daily Illuminator, the Illuminate Site for the week is one for the Nephilim Resistance Task Force, at: http://members.aol.com/rckrol308/ Either these people are doing a great job of keep straight faces, or they really worry about real nephilim at large in the world today. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 16:54:34 +0100 From: "Laurent" Subject: Re: IN> Is it Science? Or just Munchkinism? > Stock humans. Saints, as I understand it, have transcended > their merely human limitations. I thought they were not limited to their potential forces anymore (i.e. 6 or 7), but still to the maximum for humans (i.e. 15). I just got the CPG, though, and didn't have time to read it all. Laurent. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 11:00:23 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Nephilim Resistance Task Force Earl Wajenberg wrote: > http://members.aol.com/rckrol308/ > > Either these people are doing a great job of keep straight faces, > or they really worry about real nephilim at large in the world > today. Whoa. I just read through the site, and if it's a joke, it's the best straight-faced joke I've seen in this genre. I just can't figure out where they think all these 9-foot tall giants with six-fingered hands are hiding.... Definitely has In Nomine potential. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:06:29 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Nephilim Resistance Task Force David Edelstein wrote: > I just can't figure out where they think all these 9-foot tall > giants with six-fingered hands are hiding.... That was my main reality check. Magically disguised as mundanes? I once heard that, in Judaism, at least in the 1st century, run-of-the-mill demons were thought to be ghosts of the nephilim, that is ghosts of the children of fallen angels, not fallen angels themselves. True? Jo? Emily? Someone? Earl ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1689 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.