From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Jun 24 13:12:27 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA31015 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2000 13:12:27 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id NAA20795 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 24 Jun 2000 13:09:55 -0500 Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 13:09:55 -0500 Message-Id: <200006241809.NAA20795@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1690 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, June 24 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1690 In this digest: Re: IN> Is it Science? Or just Munchkinism? IN> Holocost of the Grigori IN> Is it science of Munchkinism IN> The Angel of Forgetfulness Re: IN> [RFP] Angelic PBEM call for players Re: IN> The Angel of Forgetfulness Re: IN>Running a mystery (Was:Question re Balseraph resonance) Re: IN> Is it Science? Or just Munchkinism? IN> Superiors 4 Re: IN> Superiors 4 Re: IN> Superiors 4 Re: IN> Superiors 4 Re: IN> Superiors 4 Re: IN> Superiors 4 Re: IN> Superiors 4 Re: IN> Is it science of Munchkinism Re: IN> Nephilim Resistance Task Force Re: IN> Six Fists of Calabim came a knockin' IN> How insane is Gabrielle? Re: IN> Holocost of the Grigori Re: IN> Superiors 4 Re: IN> How insane is Gabrielle? Re: IN> Superiors 4 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:44:08 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Is it Science? Or just Munchkinism? At 6:58 PM -0700 6/22/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >OK, random thought experiment time. This came to me >while I was taking the train in to work (four hours >each day when I can do nothing but read. And they >wonder why I insist on working in the City). > >Take a Saint (non-reincarnated kind). 7 Forces to >start, right? > >Good. Now, have a AA come by, and in the name of >Complete Implausibility, have said AA gift the Saint >with 11 Forces. Personal ones. According to the CPG, >page 88, Saints are "no longer being limited by their >human potential", so this should be possible. See errata. (And thank the gods for it, because that's sickening to have to think about the ramifications otherwise.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 13:30:49 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Holocost of the Grigori Earl wrote: >In IN, there are "Nephallim" and then there are "Children of the >Grigori." Both are descended from Grigori, but the Nephallim are >monstrous, and if they aren't born evil, they're sure drawn that >way. The Children look normal, tend to extra forces and symphonic >awareness, and aren't particularly evil, maybe even tending to good. I did not know that. I had assumed that the Nephilim were actually the First Generation of the Grigori's children and were simply very powerful people who had a tendancy to disdain God....the rest of the Children of the Grigori being their offspring and their offspring's offspring etc. Kinduv like the short lived Species RPG for masterbook or Vampire: The Masquerade's generation system. >So is this Lazarus guy going after Nephallim specifically, >or after Children, too? Sounds like he's going after Children, >since 1.4 million sounds like a lot of ogrish monsters to be >hiding out on Earth. Well that's an intriguing point. The way I see it he has three option... 1:) Go after the Nephilim: Which frankly doesn't seem like that great of a story plot even if they are immortal nasty folk...(though some were quite nice if you believe Danyael of the Prophecy III). 2:) Go after the direct children of the Grigori: Which might be any number of folk.....someone suggested 50,0000. 3:) Slaughter anyone who has the Grigori blood: Basically this holocost ends only when the children of Grigori and their children and the like are totally annhilated. The problem is this is more like ten million (or a 100 million) but I could see plague, etc, reducing the descednats to about the number I wanr. The way I see Lazarus is that he's burning all bridges between the Grigori and humanity other than their job as Watchers (which may make him fall-though I shudder to think what THAT would be like) >1.4 Sounds like a lot in general. IIRC (I don't have the CPG at hand), >celestial and ethereal offspring do not have instant immortality, which >would cut down that number greatly. I see the combined number of all the >celestial and ethereal offspring numbering maybe around 500,000 at the very >most. Although, I'd probably limit it to a couple thousand at one time in >the world in any other campaign. I'm not sure he really cares about the children of other angels given that they are not going to "redeem" the Grigori. Though certainly he'd be willing to kill any he comes across....heheh I'm thinking about running this scenario to annoy the players. The players find either A:) A woman they rescued in an earlier adventure with a strawberry birthmark on her hand (an angel script rune) is actually a Child of the Grigori (her mother left her father and he) or a full out Nephilim (she's nice though...) and Lazarus catches wind of Angelica... B:) They're assigned to work with a song of creation born soldier... Ben wrote: Re: How he would know about all the Children >He wouldn't. But there's a few Demon Princes who might know and would be >delighted to tell him. >There's a few ARCHANGELS who know and might be delighted to tell him. I somewhat doubt it really. Kronos and Asmodeus (if he bothered to waste the Game's resources for about 50 years) would be the only ones who know and while I could see A doing it...Kronos never interferes with Fate's before they can be swayed. Yves and Michael would be the only ones who know and I can't imagine M after the Holocost (or even before) even considering Genocide (other than of demons-and they don't count). However it does occur to me that maybe 6 or so Grigori are charged with monitoring via word or other methods all the new children being born and existing in the world. Several hundred or perhaps a thousand Children of the Grigori soldiers to monitor them might exist too (Like the Watchers) >With 1.4 million, he can't, unless they all happen to live in the same city. >With 500,000, he still can't. Now, if there's just a few thousand >Nephallim, and he kills, say, one a week, he could make this his life's >quest. Good point. Either way I'll have to consider it....one million lives is a big number but it would require a different type of misson with Lazarus either preparing significant resources to kill them all off (Nazi's lists and him working with the like is a distrubing idea....) or preparing to turn the lists over to the more militant archangels and/or demon hosts in belief they will do more damage....he might be working with Uriel's old buddies on this. Thus even the Grigori remanant are hunting their insane brother... However 2000 lives is nothing to sneaze at either and it's more likely the players can hunt down and destroy him one on one after finding children slaughtered with their families which Lazarus doesn't discrimminate against to get the job done. I'll consider your adventure idea...this is something to think about. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 13:41:31 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Is it science of Munchkinism >Question #1: Is this character even remotely human >anymore? The way Thor, Loki, and Ze...well he's dead are human. Basically with an 11 Forces the man who has beyond any limits of human intelligence or strength may be able to pass for human but as any gamer knows-alot of high iq folk have alot of trouble fitting in with normal men....now times that times 50. Also the addition of such intellect likely would drive a human being insane...Celestials have had a good ammount of experience to deal with such a high level of knowledge, experience, etc or were just created to. >Question #2: Assuming that this works, you get a >character that has access to at least one Servitor >Attunement, has no dissonance worries and transcends >human potentials. Why bother with angels? Because like I said...nine times out of ten he'll go insane or get himself killed off fairly early. Also dissonance isn't a big problem for angels...at least any much more than humanity...you do realize human beings can get corrupted to? Make a bunch of saints on Earth as angels and you'll get the same level of corruption with Joan of Arc (forgive me Saint Joan but I knowest thee understands my point) getting seduced by Balseraph Mystrall the Counquer. Moreso probably because the majority of angels have lived a few million or so years (others billions) and chat merilly about dinosaurs...and that's pretty much saying alot about their ability to survive the War and stay uncorrupted. Humans are a wild card. Also theres the whole fact humans can't get words.... >Question #3: Considering that the character now has >more angelic Forces than human ones, would he or she >have _any_ kind of access to resonances? No. Yves doesn't have any attunements and he's a human soul, so why should they? >Extra credit for the first person who can come up with >a good rationalization for _any_ Archangel to do >something so inane... :) Janus-to shake the heirachy up Eli-While in the bathroom came up with the idea. Michael-a short term offensive agent against the demons Jean- To elevate the pathetic monkeys God- Adam...later Lilith...THAT DID *NOT* turn out well....Eve....not so much either. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 13:50:12 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> The Angel of Forgetfulness Hey Folks... Keeping my campaign straight it's under the impression that I think a character of mine will get a word at the end of the campaign from the Seraphim council. Specifically he's requesting the word of Forgetfulness........ A Seraph, over the past fifty thousand some odd years of humanity's history (he was asked by Eli to have humanity forget the true lanquage at the Tower of Babel) and occasional dissonance and lost fights with demons...has more or less spent his time trying to foster peace, unity, and love between mortals by getting them to forget grudges and embrace each other as brothers/sisters (he works for Novalis too-mostly out of penitance for his percieved wrongs agains the humans he loves) I was kinduv curious exactly how this would elevate the old boy in terms of new abilities and rites. I still haven't gotton my Gamemaster's Guide yet unfortunately and it's rather pressing (I will get it oh list lords I promise!) - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 11:11:05 -0700 From: "Antuan Wallace" Subject: Re: IN> [RFP] Angelic PBEM call for players I a quite interested in joining this PBEM, I am not sure if I should be emailing to the list but I just wanted to respond as soon as I could. Hopefully you have room for a new player to Innomine itching to try out the system. I Gmed it a few times but would love to play. - ----------------------------------------------------- Rabbit King Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ - ----- Original Message ----- From: EDG To: Sent: Friday, June 23, 2000 4:54 AM Subject: IN> [RFP] Angelic PBEM call for players > Request For Players: New PBEM "Ultima Veritas" > > Game Master: EDG > > No. of Players Needed: 2-4 > > Type of Game: Angelic, modern, starting-level characters > > Primary Game Location: To be chosen > > Character Restrictions: Must be angels or aligned with Heaven. (Non-angels > must consult with GM.) Must be balanced starting characters for their > types. Prefer Choirs other than Seraphim and Mercurians (we already have > one of each). > > Character Due Date: June 28, 2000 (Wednesday) (character sheet and basic > sketch) > > Game Start Date: July 3, 2000 (Monday) > > Additional Comments: Characters should be able to travel. PC slots will be > assigned on a first come, first served basis. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 14:38:24 -0400 From: "Aaron Medwin" Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Forgetfulness From: Charles Phipps > Hey Folks... > > Keeping my campaign straight it's under the impression that I think a > character of mine will get a word at the end of the campaign from the > Seraphim council. Specifically he's requesting the word of > Forgetfulness........ This is a Seraph? Trying to make people forget the Truth? Seems odd. Mercurian, Malakite, Cherub, I can see those. > A Seraph, over the past fifty thousand some odd years of humanity's history > (he was asked by Eli to have humanity forget the true lanquage at the Tower > of Babel) and occasional dissonance and lost fights with demons...has more > or less spent his time trying to foster peace, unity, and love between > mortals by getting them to forget grudges and embrace each other as > brothers/sisters (he works for Novalis too-mostly out of penitance for his > percieved wrongs agains the humans he loves) > > I was kinduv curious exactly how this would elevate the old boy in terms of > new abilities and rites. I still haven't gotton my Gamemaster's Guide yet > unfortunately and it's rather pressing (I will get it oh list lords I > promise!) If he doesn't have it already, Blandine's Healing Dream attunement is *perfect* for that Word. Hmm... Blessed Forgetfulness(servitor attunement) Not every memory is supposed to last forever. Those caused by celestial interference certainly are not. With a touch, and five Essence, the angel may remove all memories from a mortal that were the direct result of supernatural events(if it makes a disturbance, it's supernatural). This may very well leave large gaps in the mortal's memory; if more than a month's worth of memories are erased, the mortal must make a Will roll or aquire some form of Ethereal disadvantage related to his selective amnesia. Thoughts? > -Charlemagne - -Aaron Medwin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 15:19:10 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN>Running a mystery (Was:Question re Balseraph resonance) At 18:38 -0400 6/22/00, Ryan Elias wrote: >"Erich S. Arendall" wrote: >> The Kyrio PC in my game tends to focus on anything with a >> true name of only one word - which makes it very hard to disguise the >> celestials amongst them. > >One thing you could do if this is really a problem is to give the Kyrio >the name of a possessed celestial's role (if it's a high enough level, >maybe?) rather than the celestial's actual name. This has been suggested previously for things like the Mercurian resonance, and it seems like a good idea to me. I think John K. or someone suggested a mechanic for it, even. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 15:32:53 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Is it Science? Or just Munchkinism? At 21:58 -0400 6/22/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >Good. Now, have a AA come by, and in the name of >Complete Implausibility, have said AA gift the Saint >with 11 Forces. Personal ones. According to the CPG, >page 88, Saints are "no longer being limited by their >human potential", so this should be possible. No. This statement exempts them from their *original* Force limit (i.e., 5-7 or 8 Forces, typically) when they were first alive, *not* from the general 15-Force human limit. At least, that's how I understand it (and that view is supported by the CPG errata clarification, I think). Normally, if an AA grafted another 9 Forces on a 6-Force Soldier, said Soldier would go >BOOM<. Or something. Because said Soldier simply didn't have the potential for 15 Forces. Once a Saint, this limitation is gone -- the same character could become a 7-Force Saint after death, and then be pushed up to the human maximum of 15 Forces. But it can't be done during his original human life. >Question #1: Is this character even remotely human >anymore? Yes. Remotely. A *very* powerful human, but still nominally human. (Even Lilith is *nominally* human....) >Question #2: Assuming that this works, you get a >character that has access to at least one Servitor >Attunement, has no dissonance worries and transcends >human potentials. Why bother with angels? Angels can have more Forces, Words, and resonances. Angels are, in some sense, more reliable -- humans are too unpredictable and changable in some ways. >Question #3: Considering that the character now has >more angelic Forces than human ones, would he or she >have _any_ kind of access to resonances? I don't think so. Resonances are a consequence of having a specific type of celestial nature; humans are too amorphous in nature to have the single-minded clarity of spirit needed for a resonance. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 14:57:13 -0500 (CDT) From: edg@pyramid.sjgames.com Subject: IN> Superiors 4 The Superiors 4 cover art is up. www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/superiors4/ Vapula does Starcraft... - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 15:11:25 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Superiors 4 SWEET! I expect the writeup of Valefor will probably make me feel sorry about what I'm going to do wo him in my "Antebellum" game, though... *eg* - ----- Original Message ----- From: > The Superiors 4 cover art is up. www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/superiors4/ > > Vapula does Starcraft... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 20:36:09 GMT From: "Erich S. Arendall" Subject: Re: IN> Superiors 4 >The Superiors 4 cover art is up. www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/superiors4/ I have very mixed feelings about the cover. On one hand, it has probably the best cover artwork the IN supplements have had. On the other, it doesn't *feel* like In Nomine art. The latter (feel) is more important than the former (artistic merit) for IN, I think. Not that my vote matters much, but I'm giving the cover a thumbs down. - -Erich S. Arendall "Shadow Sprite" Demon of Critical Failures at the Worst Possible Time for Players and the Best Time for GMs, Impudite of The Game - ------------------------- Touched by an Impudite http://www.impudite.com Go Directly to the Blog http://www.impudite.com/abt-blog.asp ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 16:40:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Superiors 4 > Vapula does Starcraft... Wow. The book has a name. I had my doubts for a while. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emily K. Dresner -- http://www.nodonut.com/zenith Read No Donut -- Gaming, Politics, Conspiracy, Computers, and other fun stuff at http://www.nodonut.com/. "John, he's trained an army of Iron Chefs!" - The Daily Show ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 16:50:33 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Superiors 4 At 4:40 PM -0400 6/23/00, Emily Dresner wrote: > > Vapula does Starcraft... > >Wow. The book has a name. I had my doubts for a while. So... Fleurity, Alaemon and Valefor are Rogues, Mammon is Rich... Vapula is... um.... (Perhaps we should retitle it Lawyers, Guns and Money. For no good reason, other than I like that song. ) - -- - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 17:00:14 -0400 From: Mason Kramer Subject: Re: IN> Superiors 4 > From: Whistling in the Dark > So... Fleurity, Alaemon and Valefor are Rogues, Mammon is Rich... > Vapula is... um.... > Vapula is Rich, of course. All Techs are, right? Right? Hello... Mason, Angel of... um... I forget.... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 16:07:15 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Superiors 4 From: "Whistling in the Dark" > > (Perhaps we should retitle it Lawyers, Guns and Money. For no good > reason, other than I like that song. ) It *is* a good fit... Vapula is the one making the Guns, after all, with Valefor stealing them (and then using Mammon's Lawyers to defend himself.) And once a hard day's work defending demons against the Game is done, those same Lawyers will be paying Fleurity some hard-earned Money for their relaxation agent of choice. (And yes, I *do* have too much time on my hands. Why do you ask?) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 17:56:55 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Is it science of Munchkinism Charles Phipps wrote: > The way Thor, Loki, and Ze...well he's dead are human. Basically with an 11 > Forces the man who has beyond any limits of human intelligence or strength > may be able to pass for human but as any gamer knows-alot of high iq folk > have alot of trouble fitting in with normal men....now times that times 50. BWAAhahahahahaha! Are you saying gamers are smarter than "normal people"? Also, 11 Forces can still be within human ranges, since the human maximum on characteristics is 10. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 10:54:06 +1000 From: "Azrael" Subject: Re: IN> Nephilim Resistance Task Force Did everyone follow the link at the bottom? http://www.mt.net/~watcher/ Hmmm I have an uncle that believe all this stuff....weird man. Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 20:05:54 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Six Fists of Calabim came a knockin' From: "Marc Bowden" > > --On Fri, Jun 23, 2000 4:08 AM -0500 Prodigal > wrote: > > > > A Pride of Balseraphs (in honor of the First of their kind) > > Bucking for the word of Witty Puns That Take a Minute to Sink In, > are we? I don't already have it? ;;;) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 00:17:31 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> How insane is Gabrielle? This is a curious question but I was curious how everyone saw Gabrielle's insanity manifesting and exactly what you thought the source was of her madness (dissonance or an all too human cause?) Basically the way everyone talks I think it started manifesting when she was banished (or more precisley-willingly chose Exile) to her Volcano. I'm sure Superiors 3 will go more into this but my copy still hasn't arrived from Warehouse23 and I'm very anxious. It's rather important in my campaign because one of my angels (the one whose becomming the archangel of Forgetfulness) was quite close to her/him before the incident and I want a deep caring for the Archangel to manifest.... (because of his word he's dealt with insanity alot in his time-both as recipeant or not) And really Im wondering whether he should be concerned about the person he loves so well or not. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 23:33:08 PDT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Holocost of the Grigori >Ben wrote: >Re: How he would know about all the Children > > >He wouldn't. But there's a few Demon Princes who might know and would be > >delighted to tell him. > >There's a few ARCHANGELS who know and might be delighted to tell him. > >I somewhat doubt it really. Kronos and Asmodeus (if he bothered to waste >the Game's resources for about 50 years) would be the only ones who know >and >while I could see A doing it...Kronos never interferes with Fate's before >they can be swayed. Actually, I wouldn't at all assume that any Demon Princes would know much about the Grigori or their children. That choir was created after the Fall, and it might even be that the Grigori were cast out of heaven before the demons were even able to find a way back to earth from Hell. Really, the only way they'd know very much about the Grigori would be from accidental meetings, of it any of them actually fell ... jo ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 23:39:43 PDT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Superiors 4 >From: Whistling in the Dark >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > >So... Fleurity, Alaemon and Valefor are Rogues, Mammon is Rich... >Vapula is... um.... > > Oh, he was quite the rogue prince a hundred years ago or so ... jo ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 01:49:52 -0500 From: Kris Overstreet Subject: Re: IN> How insane is Gabrielle? At 12:17 AM 6/24/00 -0400, you wrote: >This is a curious question but I was curious how everyone saw Gabrielle's >insanity manifesting and exactly what you thought the source was of her >madness (dissonance or an all too human cause?) > >Basically the way everyone talks I think it started manifesting when she was >banished (or more precisley-willingly chose Exile) to her Volcano. I treat her insanity as a result of a confused perception of the Symphony on all levels, plus a very deep-rooted anger. Fire is not supposed to be happy or sad, it just is; but Gabriel's extremely angry. She feels betrayed, and thus clings to those she feels she can trust. She doubts herself, and she passes those doubts onto others. Most fundamentally, she is tuned in on the Higher Heavens, and as such her perceptions often clash radically with those of anyone else. As such, she is virtually incapable of rational thought, or at the very least anything that -appears- rational. Redneck Kris Overstreet, aka Redneck Gaijin publisher, White Lightning Prod. - www.wlpcomics.com I ***LOATHE*** Microsoft Outlook. Please get Eudora. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 14:08:44 -0400 From: Jason Schneiderman Subject: Re: IN> Superiors 4 >(Perhaps we should retitle it Lawyers, Guns and Money. For no good >reason, other than I like that song. ) *knock, knock* A Mr. Greg Stolze from Atlas Games to see you, sir. Seems that name's already been taken... yours, Jason, who was about two feet from Warren Zevon and didn't have his copy of the book to autograph. * * * * * "I'm addicted to stress that's the way that I get things done if I'm not underpressure then I sleep too long and I hang around like a bum and I think I'm going nowhere and that makes me nervous..." Jason Schneiderman jadasc@ma.ultranet.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1690 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.