From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Jun 27 22:28:39 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA11828 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 22:28:38 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id WAA00855 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 22:27:00 -0500 Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 22:27:00 -0500 Message-Id: <200006280327.WAA00855@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1693 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, June 27 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1693 In this digest: Re: IN> [RFP] Angelic PBEM call for players Re: IN> Which Demon Prince is closest to Redemption? Re: IN> How insane is Gabrielle Re: Curse you, SurturZ... Was: IN> Six Fists of Calabim came a knockin' Re: IN> [RFP] Angelic PBEM call for players Re: IN> Which Demon Prince is closest to Redemption? IN> How insane is Gabrielle? IN> Superiors 3-cover Re: Curse you, SurturZ... Was: IN> Six Fists of Calabim came a knockin' Re: IN> Which Demon Prince is closest to Redemption? RE: IN> Superiors 4 RE: IN> Superiors 4 Re: IN> Which Demon Prince is closest to Redemption? Fwd: Re: IN> [RFP] Angelic PBEM call for players RE: IN> Superiors 4 Re: IN> How insane is Gabrielle? Re: IN> Which Demon Prince is closest to Redemption? Re: IN> How insane is Gabrielle? Re: IN> How insane is Gabrielle? Re: IN> How insane is Gabrielle? Re: IN> PC Creation Help Re: IN> PC Creation Help Re: IN> PC Creation Help IN> Yes, she is. It sounds bloody unlikely to me, too... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 22:58:57 -0400 From: "EDG" Subject: Re: IN> [RFP] Angelic PBEM call for players eek! I should have expected the deluge I got. As of now, I'm afraid I can't accept any more requests... the current situation is that I might have to go ahead and start up a /second/ PBEM - and even then I might have a waiting list. I'll get back personally to everyone who emailed me tomorrow morning, when I'm more awake. ^_^ Thanks for the submissions! - -EDG whoever suggested that PBEM database, I think it might be a good idea, yes ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 20:46:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Which Demon Prince is closest to Redemption? Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 18:10:05 -0400From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Which Demon Prince is closest to Redemption? >Hey this is a weird question but I was curious whom >everyone thought among the Demon Princes who was the >closest to Redemption and maybe what you think it >would take to push the other princes towards the >North instead of the South Side of things. Asmodeus. No, really. To start off with, he's a Djinn. They go around not giving a flying leap about _anything_, because it's the best way for them to deal with the large gaping hole where their capacity for love used to be. Granted, when they screw up with a resonance roll, they go all obsessive with random item #453 and act all protective and stuff, but it's not quite the same thing. The problem with this is that a celestial that doesn't love his/her/its Word is in big trouble. If you don't, you're not a very good Superior, and in Hell, screw-up Word-bound are toast. Ashes, really. So, we see that Asmodeus is in a bit of a bind: he _loves_ his Word. He loves the games, the trickery, the sheer inventiveness of it. And he's good. Really, really good at it. Also, most of his duties involve taking down traitors to his cause: if he goes all obsessive and completely ignores the corporeal aspects of the Game, who's to know? Not even him: he'd just suspect that he was more than usually obsessive about his work, and not notice the fine corrupting hand of happiness until it's too late... And that's the second point: it's ironic, but of all the Demon Princes, Asmodeus is the best-placed to go Renegade, precisely because he's the Grand Inquisitor*. Heck, he's gone traitor once: what's stopping him from doing it again? His nature might see it as the ultimate kick ... and once he starts grooving on those Cherubic impulses, hey presto! Archangel of Connections. I could also point out the gruesome consequences for Asmodeus if the Last Battle hits, especially if he's stuck with an attunement to his Word at the time ("Hmmm. If Heaven wins, I just die. If Hell wins, then my Word may be suppressed as superfluous. MUST ... PROTECT ... WORD ..."), but I think you get the point. Hey, this is fun! Give me another one. No, not Malphas. I've already done that one. :) Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of Bulls**t Artists *Well, Beleth might seem to be in a similiar situation, but then I've already argued that she's really a Cherub suffering from the longest-lasting application of Balseraphic resonance in history. :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 20:50:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> How insane is Gabrielle Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 17:26:43 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> How insane is Gabrielle? >(Well, B does depend on guilty consciences. Depending >on your PC group, and if they've been being cruel >lately...) >("Uh, Frediel, was it _really_ a good idea to be >doing 'this little piggy' jokes while we were >crunching the demon's fingers as it clung to the >wall, instead of shooting it before it let go?")O;> "And it would have worked, too, if it hadn't been for those meddling imps..." ;) Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of Fairly Strained Pop-Reference Puns __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 20:55:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: Curse you, SurturZ... Was: IN> Six Fists of Calabim came a knockin' From: Kris Overstreet Subject: Re: Curse you, SurturZ... Was: IN> Six Fists of Calabim came a knockin' >On the first night of the campaign the DM sicced on me A Triad seeking heresy. YES! _That's_ what I was aiming for. (applause) Morgan (FAW) Kytiotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of I've Already Done A Bunch Of These, So I'll give It A Rest __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 22:33:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Knop Subject: Re: IN> [RFP] Angelic PBEM call for players On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, EDG wrote: > whoever suggested that PBEM database, I think it might be a good idea, yes I'm working on it. The page is still fledgling. In it's earliest stage, it will just have PBEM games listed, and maintained by hand. Over time, I will put in forms and such so that you can enter and maitain your own information (announcing new PBEM games, updating if you have spots available, and indicating interest if you're a player). Let me know if anybody has any suggestions. - -Rob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 01:39:01 -0400 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Which Demon Prince is closest to Redemption? I disagree about Andre, and to some extent Nybbas. Kobal is a wild card, he has a mission from God, which makes him great for designing games around. Anyway Andre is very, very, very far from Love. Unless something shows him that his new Word is far inferior to his old one in everyway. I don't think he understands how twisted and corrupted he is. Andre isn't a nice guy 'cause he's all cute and cuddly. Andre turns something beautiful and natural into something degrading, shameful and ultimately cosmically taboo so that you end up going to hell for impulses that God gave you. He is one sick mofo Nybbas doesn't understand the problem that heaven has with demons. Infact I'm pretty sure that he thinks the war is just there for him to report on. I mean without the War things would be boring, and the media hates boring. It would be hard to try and make him get that what he's doing is wrong AND to make him care enough to seek redemption for the right reasons. I put my money on Belial. He loves fire, he definetly has a thing for Gabriel. If he could just be shown that he could be fire in a better way than he currently is and that it would be better for fire he may redeem. Timothy, Angel of Rambling Ofanite of Creation ArchRival of Mathus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 01:50:22 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> How insane is Gabrielle? >Just one thing: is it common knowledge on the Celestial plane that Gabby is a prophet? I think the main problem is that Dominic is suspicious of three things Gabrielle does.... 1:) Gabrielle is trying to take over Heaven; by touting herself (obviously Dominic has a skewered view of tout) as the resident powerhouse of Divine Inspiration he thinks she's trying to overcome Yves's nominal leadership by playing on angelic need for communication with God. 2:) She is not serving as God's Mouthpiece but her own....altering the Islamic faiths to her own twisted summation of the truth of God's word....or to to aid her own word. All her prophecies might indeed take this part. Similar but not the same as 1:) Less sinister but more dangerous is the suspicion... 3:) Gabrielle is actually completely off her rocker from the years of war, Belial's betrayal, and the incesstant need to destroy instead of purify and inspire (Dominic is actually quite sympathetic given his own duties and doing some self-projecting with this one)....ergo he believes that she's hearing voices and obeying them. Ethereal Dissonance for her inspiration instead of divine origin. Thus Dominic feels Yves is keeping him from helping his angel recover. It may be too late now. Dominic just is wondering I think why God would use Gabrielle but not share his insight with Yves...or Michael...and if he was seeking a new mouthpiece WHY NOT HIM!?! - -Charlie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 01:55:15 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Superiors 3-cover >The Gabriel cover *is* impressive on Superiors 3. Personally, I think >the GURPS IN cover suffers a bit from the size of the book -- it's a >beautiful piece, but my feeling on seeing it was that it would look even >better as a poster. (That's a hint, Andrew....) I agree... Gabrielle is perfect on this one. I say make it a poster! - -Charlemagne I'd buy it indeed asap ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 06:46:11 -0500 From: "Kiara S. Legner" Subject: Re: Curse you, SurturZ... Was: IN> Six Fists of Calabim came a knockin' >>... Five Grigori ... Six six six<< Six Calabim... THANK YOU!!! Now I can get that blasted song out of my head!!! Ki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 11:11:21 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Which Demon Prince is closest to Redemption? >My guess is the closest Demon Princes to redemption would be Nybblas, Kobal, >and Andre.. Andre is doubtful, in my opinion -- he's perfectly comfortable the way he is, and he doesn't really have any problems to push him. (Yes, demonic politics, but he's been doing those for millenia, and dealing with them. Unless the political balance in Hell shifted drastically toward the war faction, there's really nothing difficult for him there.) >The lovers of humanity (Andre and Kobal) really there are essentially out >for their own pleasures and are growing swiftly bored of the lack of >fufillment their word is getting them. I don't think "lack of fulfillment" really applies, at least to Andre. OK, it may be repetitive, but does he really care? He's still having a good time. It feels good; what else matters? Kobal is a harder case. He's certainly getting unhappy, according to canon. But he's a loose cannon in that regard -- he's just as likely to move in the other direction as redeem. Yes, you can make a case for it, but you're basically playing on the random factor in his makeup. Kobal's "mission from God" is another wild card in the mix. Personally, I just don't see him as good redemption material; it just doesn't seem to suit his personality. But if he goes, it will be unexpected and sudden. Nybbas is fairly high on my list of "possibly-redeemable Princes" -- he's too new to have a lot of entrenched bad habits, and he really hasn't pushed the worst depths of his Word. (The term "shallow" comes to mind for some reason....) On the other hand, like Andre, he's having a perfectly good time as he is -- it's hard to see what would motivate him to move Heavenward. Probably the closest thing he has to an Achilles heel is the possibility that he might suffer from some degree of creativity. The other possible opening I see is that he's the ultimate poll-follower -- if humanity as a whole started moving towards the Light, he might just follow the trend without thinking too hard about it. But it's pretty likely that Asmodeus or Lucifer would have a little talk with him before that went too far.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 11:18:18 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: RE: IN> Superiors 4 At 20:01 -0400 6/26/00, Leath Sheales wrote: >I suppose this accounts for different tastes. The cover makes me go enh >*shrug*. That's about my opinion of it too. Good technical execution, but unexciting content. The other problem is that I tend to picture Vapula as more of a pulp SF superscientist gone bad, than as a Borg (or Frankenstein's monster) -- he experiments on *other* people, not himself. Someone stained and scarred by his experiments, carrying a lot of gleaming '50s-futuristic gadgets of ominous appearance -- that's my picture of him. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 08:47:01 PDT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: RE: IN> Superiors 4 >From: Walter Milliken >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >That's about my opinion of it too. Good technical execution, but >unexciting content. The other problem is that I tend to picture >Vapula as more of a pulp SF superscientist gone bad, than as a Borg (or >Frankenstein's monster) The picture in the main book is quite Frankenstein-Monster-ish. Anyway, I liked it. I thought it felt very ominous. Very "crushed by the wheels of industry"esque. jo ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 11:35:52 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> Which Demon Prince is closest to Redemption? > Asmodeus. Asmodeus *is* really good at what he does, but I don't know if he enjoys it anymore. Sure, he might get a brief glimmer of enjoyment when he catches someone in a particularly clever trap . . . but he used the same trap 200 years ago, and it wasn't even new then. He's good because he's done this for tens of thousands of years. It's routine. Saying he's good at the Game is like saying he's good at breathing. Saying he enjoys the Game is like saying he enjoys breathing, too. It's vital to keep him alive, and he'll jealously protect it, but not out of any passion or love for it. Ironically, the other demon who is like this is Kobal. The two of 'em should sit down for beers and a bitchfest. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 14:06:39 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Fwd: Re: IN> [RFP] Angelic PBEM call for players >From: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 08:49:09 -0500 >To: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from ["John J. Maurer, Esq." ] > >From: "John J. Maurer, Esq." >Subject: Re: IN> [RFP] Angelic PBEM call for players > > >-----Original Message----- >From: EDG >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Date: Monday, June 26, 2000 11:02 PM >Subject: Re: IN> [RFP] Angelic PBEM call for players > > >>eek! >> >>I should have expected the deluge I got. As of now, I'm afraid I can't >>accept any more requests... the current situation is that I might have to >go >>ahead and start up a /second/ PBEM - and even then I might have a waiting >>list. > > > >Wow. How do you do it. I have 4 players for my PBEM which will start next >week but I would accept twice that (To account for people not responding and >all) > >I feel so unloved. :( > >4 more days to accept submissions to my PBEM game before I start with the 4 >I have. > >Speaks > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 14:12:06 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> Superiors 4 At 9:04 PM -0400 6/26/00, Emily Dresner wrote: >> I think it's probably going to be my least-favorite cover for a while, >> personally. > >Hey, I was happy the book actually has a _title_. Covers are just gravy. >:) The book's _had_ a title for ages. Just apparently no one told EDG or Keith or whoever sticks those up originally. The working title was "From Rogues to Riches," and you can see what the chosen one was. Voila. - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 14:20:00 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> How insane is Gabrielle? At 1:50 AM -0400 6/27/00, Charles Phipps wrote: >>Just one thing: is it common knowledge on the Celestial plane that Gabby is >>a prophet? Just because she's a prophet doesn't mean each and every one of her ravings is prophetic, don't forget. Unless Dominic were wandering around taking notes -- and even then, don't forget Superior shielding abilities (see the GMG, page 99 or so)! -- he'd have no way of knowing which of Gabriel's comments were ineffable, and which were just her rambling about something she's forgotten the right words for because she's so far out in hyperspace she has to radio home to see if she's wearing shoes. [...] >Dominic just is wondering I think why God would use Gabrielle but not share >his insight with Yves...or Michael...and if he was seeking a new mouthpiece >WHY NOT HIM!?! Because Judgment cannot be _lost_ like that, clearly -- if God speaks in ways that cannot be translated clearly, then so be it. And such flights of illogical Divinity are inappropriate to He Who Must Judge. - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 14:19:08 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Which Demon Prince is closest to Redemption? At 8:46 PM -0700 6/26/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 18:10:05 -0400From: "Charles >Phipps" >Subject: IN> Which Demon Prince is closest to >Redemption? >>Hey this is a weird question but I was curious whom >>everyone thought among the Demon Princes who was the >>closest to Redemption and maybe what you think it >>would take to push the other princes towards the >>North instead of the South Side of things. > >Asmodeus. > >No, really. [...] >The problem with this is that a celestial that doesn't >love his/her/its Word is in big trouble. I don't think love for one's Word is necessarily very important at all. One must *promote* it if it's in any danger of degenerating, but Djinn are actually excellent at that sort of thing, without being in danger of Dissonance or Redemption. The singleminded obsessive need to promote one's Word doesn't have to be even slightly selfless. ("*My* Word. *Mine.* I will make *my* Word the greatest Word of them all!") >So, we see that Asmodeus is in a bit of a bind: he >_loves_ his Word. He loves the games, the trickery, >the sheer inventiveness of it. And he's good. >Really, really good at it. This is almost totally and 100% opposite of how I interpret Asmodeus. Asmodeus is amazingly good at his duties, and he does indeed live by his Word. But his Word is the *Game.* The rules and roles that one plays at, ultimately meaningless and ultimately inpersonal. Traitors have to die? No offense, mate -- you broke the rules of the Game and now you have to die. You went Renegade? Mm -- bad move, then. Now you have to be tormented. But he doesn't *love* the Game. He doesn't love *anything.* Asmodeus, IMC, is the ultimate jaded immortal. He doesn't care about *anything,* but he is exceedingly good at the formalities that surround the rules he plays by. He is completely obsessive-compulsive, and his obsession is the Game. One plays it. One lives by it. One wins it if they can. One loses if they must. Even cheating becomes a part of the unwritten rules of it, and catching and punishing those cheaters is a part of what he does. But actually *love* the Game? That's antithetical to what the Game *is.* If you could actually give a flying rat's ass about any of this, you're not playing a Game any more. Suddenly it's *real.* And if it's *real,* then you're not in the Game, you're in the War. You *have* to care and fight and die for it. That's not Asmodeus. That's Baal. Asmodeus doesn't love it. He doesn't hate it. He just doesn't care. But he plays by the rules, and he brooks no abrogation of those rules. It's why he doesn't like Valefor. Valefor didn't play by the rules. He *stole* a *Word.* That's not how it's supposed to work. Valefor's Servitors break the ranks and break the rules, and Valefor doesn't pay the necessary lip service to the other Powers That Be to show proper respect. Valefor's not playing the Game the right way. So Asmodeus's desperate obsessiveness means he pursues Valefor and his agents mercilessly and endlessly, so that he can put Valefor out of the Game once and for all, and declare to all of Hell that there are rules you do *not* break, because that's how the Game is played. It's also why he's Hostile to almost all the Princes, as well. Lilith? She's a Special Exception to the Rules, and Asmodeus doesn't like that precedent. Kobal mocks the Game -- Asmodeus doesn't care about *that,* but in so doing Kobal often tries to circumvent the Game, and Asmodeus will not brook that. Andrealphus? Hmph. Too many of his Servitors Redeem. Redemption means they're quitting the Game or want to start over or want to change mid-stream, and that's just wrong. You play the hand you're given, and you improve it how you can, but you don't demand a new deal. That's not how it's played. Finally, there's how "good" at the Game Asmodeus is. Asmodeus is naturally very skilled at these machinations. After all, he's had a lot of experience in balancing the reactions of Demons to different stimuli, and he can see several moves ahead of the Game when someone decides to follow one of the usual paths. He knows how to chase down Renegades because he knows Renegades. He knows why they choose to commit their crimes and he knows why they want to leave. He doesn't *care* about those motivations. Frankly, they're irrelevant. They're trying to break out of the Game, but the Game's not played that way. So, he follows their moves with moves of his own, carefully arraying his Servitors against them and manuvering them into capture, proof of treason, and imprisonment. And then he slowly breaks them, and forces them to admit their crimes, and to accept the Game for what it is, and then he kills them. Think of _1984._ Winston wasn't killed outright when they got proof of his Thoughtcrimes. Oh, he was *going* to be killed. That was a given. But first, he had to be broken. He had to turn completely off the path of rebellion. He had to embrace and love Big Brother and the State. He had to betray the very concept of love and individuality for his own selfish interests. Only then, when he was completely loyal and pure, could he be killed for disloyalty and impurity. That's the Game in a nutshell. That's Asmodeus in a nutshell. And Asmodeus plays the Game the way it's meant to be played, and has no interest in anything else. He doesn't care about anything else. He doesn't care about *anything.* There is only the Game. > Also, most of his duties >involve taking down traitors to his cause: if he goes >all obsessive and completely ignores the corporeal >aspects of the Game, who's to know? Not even him: >he'd just suspect that he was more than usually >obsessive about his work, and not notice the fine >corrupting hand of happiness until it's too late... I can't see Asmodeus as ever being happy. Not even a little. Happiness implies the achievement of a goal. The achievement of a goal implies the capacity to win. The capacity to win implies the Game can be won. The Game being capable of being Won implies the Game can End. The Game can't End. Ever. Ergo, Asmodeus is never happy. >And that's the second point: it's ironic, but of all >the Demon Princes, Asmodeus is the best-placed to go >Renegade, precisely because he's the Grand >Inquisitor*. Very true. Asmodeus *could* walk out of Hell, straight to a Judgement Tether, ask to see Dominic and ask for Redemption, and no one would know he'd done it before he Redeemed. But he *wouldn't.* Besides, Judgement *works* with the Game. Which means in the end that Heaven's playing the same Game Hell is playing. The terminology's a bit different, and there are a few regional variations on rules, but it's all the same thing. So Redemption is meaningless, and involves a concession of losing. A concession of losing implies the Game can be lost. Implying you can lose the Game implies the Game can End. The Game can't End. Ever. (Special Exception. If you Soul-die, you've lost. But that's covered elsewhere in the Rules. That *doesn't* involve victory or defeat in terms of attempted goals.) >Heck, he's gone traitor once: what's stopping him from doing it again? The Game is. He won't break the rules of the Game. >His nature might see it as the ultimate kick ... and once he starts >grooving on those Cherubic impulses, hey presto! I just can't see him seeing *anything* as being a kick. Or not being a kick. It's just a Game, after all. Don't grow attached to it. >Archangel of Connections. Hm. Interesting choice of Words. It would set him against Malphas pretty severely. Whether I agree if he'd Redeem this way or not, I wouldn't mind seeing a writeup for this Heritical version of Asmodeus. Were I to do a Heretical Asmodeus, I'd make him the Angel of Achievement. (I'd only make him an Archangel if I were really in the mood to write Attunements and the like, as I don't think he'd be a Superior.) I'd also make him an ally to Yves and Michael (despite their not liking each other) and Hostile to Dominic. >I could also point out the gruesome consequences for >Asmodeus if the Last Battle hits, especially if he's >stuck with an attunement to his Word at the time >("Hmmm. If Heaven wins, I just die. If Hell wins, >then my Word may be suppressed as superfluous. MUST >... PROTECT ... WORD ..."), but I think you get the >point. I do, and I can concede that interpretation. But I can also see this one: "If Heaven wins, they consume Hell into themselves. Their Game's rules will overtake and subsume our rules. The Game will adapt and change. I will probably be destroyed, but I won't fight that. After all, that's what you do to the Superiors of the other side when you win the Final Battle. That's the throw of the die, and I will live and die by it. If Hell wins, they consume Heaven and Earth into themselves. The Game we play will adapt to our new responsibilities and our new vision of our goals. Perhaps Lucifer and the Princes will collude and decide to eliminate me. And I will be destroyed, because that's how the Game is played. "Either way, the Game will continue. The Game can't End. Ever." >Hey, this is fun! Give me another one. > >No, not Malphas. I've already done that one. :) Well, I enjoyed your post even if I rebutted it. All right, who's second most likely to Redeem by your lights? - -- - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 14:21:25 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> How insane is Gabrielle? At 2:20 PM -0400 6/27/00, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 1:50 AM -0400 6/27/00, Charles Phipps wrote: > > >Dominic just is wondering I think why God would use Gabrielle but not share >>his insight with Yves...or Michael...and if he was seeking a new mouthpiece > >WHY NOT HIM!?! > >Because Judgment cannot be _lost_ like that, clearly -- if God speaks >in ways that cannot be translated clearly, then so be it. And such >flights of illogical Divinity are inappropriate to He Who Must Judge. Besides, someone must take the Pronouncements of the Chosen Godhead and apply to them the acid test of Judgement. Someone has to decide what *is* prophetic and proclimatic and must be followed versus what is imagined or misinterpreted. - -- - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 14:42:33 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> How insane is Gabrielle? Whistling in the Dark wrote: > Besides, someone must take the Pronouncements of the Chosen Godhead > and apply to them the acid test of Judgement. Someone has to decide > what *is* prophetic and proclimatic and must be followed versus > what is imagined or misinterpreted. This reminds me of a remark made to me by a Jesuit-trained professor -- That the Pope is infallible when he speaks ex cathedra, on matters of faith and morals, but he is not infallible in deciding when he is speaking ex cathedra... Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 15:29:08 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> How insane is Gabrielle? At 2:42 PM -0500 6/27/00, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >This reminds me of a remark made to me by a Jesuit-trained >professor -- That the Pope is infallible when he speaks >ex cathedra, on matters of faith and morals, but he is not >infallible in deciding when he is speaking ex cathedra... Oh, that's nice. I like that. I like that a lot. - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 17:35:15 -0400 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> PC Creation Help Walter Milliken wrote: > If he's not fond of magic-type stuff, make him skill-heavy and/or give > him an artifact (I favor summonable weapons and motorcycles). Passage is > a fun, and fairly straightforward, attunement to consider. And it's useful > if someone locks him up.... If the player likes sturdy characters, give > him a high-level vessel -- that, and an emphasis on Corporeal Forces, > ought to do a good job of emulating a fantasy barbarian type. If he's not > likely to use his resonance much, then a 5/2/2 might be viable. The > main drawback to that would be a low Will, I think, and possibly a low > Precision (bad for Driving, Ranged Weapon, and Small Weapon). Summonable sounds like a good choice. It has a high 'cool' factor which he would probably enjoy. And with a high strength, give him a Large Weapon(sword) and let him go to town when necessary. - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 22:30:04 +0100 From: "Genevieve Cogman" Subject: Re: IN> PC Creation Help >Walter Milliken wrote: >> If he's not fond of magic-type stuff, make him skill-heavy and/or give >> him an artifact (I favor summonable weapons and motorcycles). > > Summonable sounds like a good choice. It has a high >'cool' factor which he would probably enjoy. > And with a high strength, give him a Large Weapon(sword) >and let him go to town when necessary. >+ John Karakash - geek, writer, cook This would be the Highlander pose of "behold, I had a whacking great katana hidden in my armpit and I am about to slice your head off with it", right? Genevieve - --- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 18:41:30 -0400 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> PC Creation Help Genevieve Cogman wrote: > > Summonable sounds like a good choice. It has a high > >'cool' factor which he would probably enjoy. > > And with a high strength, give him a Large Weapon(sword) > >and let him go to town when necessary. > >+ John Karakash - geek, writer, cook > > This would be the Highlander pose of "behold, I had a whacking great katana > hidden in my armpit and I am about to slice your head off with it", right? =) Tell me how he could NOT enjoy that! Personally, I think an Ofanite would be best as well. A bit reckless and Good At What They Do. - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 20:26:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Yes, she is. It sounds bloody unlikely to me, too... OK, where the bloody heck this one came from is beyond me completely. I just write them out when the voices get too loud. :) Enjoy. Or not. It's cool, either way. Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of Geek Fanboying, Much? N. J. Saint of Michael Corporeal Forces: 3 Strength: 7 Agility: 5 Ethereal Forces: 4 Intelligence: 7 Precision: 9 Celestial Forces: 3 Will: 6 Perception: 6 Skills: Chemistry/3, Emote/3, Fast Talk/1, Fighting/3, Knowledge (Movie Industry)/3, Knowledge (Physics)/3, Large Weapon/3, Lying/1, Move Silently/1, Ranged Weapon (Shotgun)/3 Songs: Charm (Cel/3), Form (Cor/2), Healing (Corp/2), Light (Cel/2), Shields (All/2), Thunder/2, Tongues (Eth/3) Attunements: Blessed, Generator, Proficiency (Shotgun) Artifacts: A shotgun/4 artifact with the instantly Summonable Feature N. J. is one of those Saints that hover around the fringes of Diabolical activity. Her task is to find those humans that are in the most danger of succumbing to the temptations that the Media displays so prettily, and steer them away. That's her job. She also looks up Servitors of Media, Drugs or Gluttony and sends them to Trauma whenever possible. That's her hobby. She's pretty good at both, though her methods can be a little extreme at times. Luckily, her Superior is pretty indifferent about methods, as long as you get away clean. N. J. 's earthly vessel is completely unlike the way she looked during her first life, not least because her old face was too famous. She's average height, reasonably muscular, and mildly pretty … but her appearance is almost aggressively generic. A demon that encounters her will only remember the grin. Not to mention the sawed-off shotgun appearing out of thin air to rest under his chin, just before he finds himself contemplating his Heart… History Heaven's supposed to be a happy place, but N. J. has a minor beef with it. She's pretty tired of people coming up to her and going, "But what are you doing here?" Granted, she's not too sure herself. Objectively speaking, her life wasn't exactly an enticement for Good. There were the drugs, the parties, the drugs, the meaningless sex, the drugs, and various other successful attempts to exemplify the meaningless tripe that fuels the Media. When she died of a drug overdose, any objective observer would have been sure that she was on the fast train to Hell. Certainly the Impudite that was her handler thought so. Nybbas couldn't wait for her to be his secretary. Unfortunately, they didn't bother checking out N. J. 's Destiny or Fate. Her Destiny was to become a legendary screen star and object of desire for a generation. She managed that. Her Fate was to bring down a President in a sex scandal. She avoided that. Barely. Sloppy work all around … especially for the Impudite, whose living hide is now covering his Prince's favorite chair. N. J. was not prepared for Heaven, to put it mildly. It was so good, so noble, so dedicated to helping those still on Earth … and here was a soul who had shown contempt for the gift of her body and her talent. N. J. had no illusions about her Earthly accomplishments. She kept expecting someone to suddenly notice her extremely unworthy self and send her down to Hell where she belonged. She kept to herself: actually, she hid. It's hard to feel pain in Heaven, but N. J. was managing quite nicely. People find redemption in the unlikeliest of places. N. J. found hers in the Halls of Progress. Those of Flowers or Destiny would have been kind to her, of course, but N. J. wouldn't have responded to kindness. What she craved was something that only the Elohim could give her: forgiveness and acceptance not because she needed it, but because she was worthy of it, in the end. A quiet affirmation that her soul was where it belonged, and that there was work for her if she wanted it. The serenity of the Halls helped N. J. get her bearings back. So, why is she a Saint of Michael's? Because, once she learned to believe in her goodness (along with some of the secrets of the cosmos), she started to get very, very angry. Not at Heaven, not at Earth, but at the manipulators and liars that had turned a nice, cheerful country girl into a stunted puppet for their tawdry shows and propaganda. They were still doing it. There was another N. J. on a bus to Los Angeles right now that would be calmly, and delicately, broken to fit a part that would consume her soul. Being dead gives you wonderful hindsight, and N. J. could see the puppet strings that had choked out her earthly life. The strings came ultimately from Hell. Someone should do something about that. Someone would. By now, she was serving Jean himself. The Archangel of Lightning is a distant entity, by Choir and nature, but never cruel. He made it clear to N. J. that he didn't need the kind of Saint that she wanted to be. But he would entreat Michael to give her a chance. Michael did (albeit with several raised eyebrows about what on earth a former sex symbol was doing in the service of Lightning), and she was soon ready to go to Earth. She's still on her first vessel, which is impressive, considering the amount of trouble she gets into. Possibly it's due to the shotgun that was a completely unexpected gift from Jean, or the attunement from the same source that allows her to give an assailant literally the shock of his life. Maybe it's the training from the Archangel of War. Or maybe it's just that, beneath it all, N. J. _still_ thinks that she needs to earn her way back in, and she's nowhere near that point yet. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1693 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.