From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Jan 5 16:36:13 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16421 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 16:36:13 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id QAA21106 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 16:36:21 -0600 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 16:36:21 -0600 Message-Id: <200101052236.QAA21106@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2006 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, January 5 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2006 In this digest: IN> The Redeemers [NPCs, no stats] Re: IN> The Angel of Free Love IN> Quick questions Re: IN> Kyriotates of Stone Re: IN> Kyriotates of Stone Re: IN> Dissonance (Re: Kyriotates of Stone) Re: IN> Quick questions Re: IN> Dead Presidents Re: IN> Ethereal Spirits question Re: IN> January 4, 2001 Re: IN> A romance from Eden to Hell to Heaven Re: IN> Quick questions Re: IN> Crash Test Angels? Re: IN> January 4, 2001 Re: IN> The Redeemers [NPCs, no stats] Re: IN> January 4, 2001 Re: IN> Kyriotates of Stone Re: IN> The Redeemers [NPCs, no stats] Re: IN> The Redeemers [NPCs, no stats] Re: IN> Crash Test Angels? Re: IN> Crash Test Angels? IN> Minor choirs collection Re: IN> Quick questions Re: IN> The Redeemers [NPCs, no stats] Re: IN> A romance from Eden to Hell to Heaven Re: IN> The Redeemers [NPCs, no stats] IN> The 8th Virtue [Re: The Redeemers] Re:IN> The Redeemers [NPCs, no stats] Re: IN> The Redeemers [NPCs, no stats] Re: Re:IN> The Redeemers [NPCs, no stats] IN> [NPC/Seed] Scipio Columen Re: IN> GURPS In-Nomine ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 02:31:53 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> The Redeemers [NPCs, no stats] Date: 5 Jan 2001 08:21:01 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: IN> The Redeemers [NPCs, no stats] >The Redeemers. >(The Eighth Virtue is Moe's idea. I wish. I got it from YAH, and keep using it because it's so bloody useful. :) >The rest is a product of my own insanity. Make of it what you will.) Funny and interesting. Good for a campaign that isn't taking itself uberseriously. Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 07:08:14 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Free Love Uh...isn't this exactly the sort of thing under which an entire Choir "piled it in"? Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("An angel of loose sex?" *blink* *pause* *sound of a paradigm shifting without a clutch*) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 04:11:27 +0100 From: "Philippe Bolay" Subject: IN> Quick questions 1. Hmm.. How come Furfur can have a strength of 14? I thought 12 was maximum? 2. How does celestials normally contact their superiors? In the IN basic rule set I get the impression (by the novel in the beginning) that its done by summoning, but ascending to heaven and leave a message or try to find them there would create a lot less disturbance right? 3. Is there a quick and easy way to calculate when someone hears a disturbance or not? I dont want to just decide it without rolling since its one of the few things my players actually get to roll for. 4. I have 2 player Malakites in Austin. How do I solve that without having them burn the city to the ground? (I LIKE Autsin as a great campaign setting). But I also dont want to kill them of for staying in character. Thanx in advance, Philippe (Who just saw Furfur enter into princedom. Great adventure. Everone just fell in love with Duriel.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 22:19:11 +0100 From: "Philippe Bolay" Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotates of Stone *snip* By the same token, simply landing on the shoulder of someone is, in > and of itself, Not an attack. There is no intent of harm (in the landing on the > shoulder). *snip* *snip* > > > David would also have been annoyed at first contact being the bird's. > > > The threshhold of contact was the bird, not the demon. > > > > > That too. > But the disonance condition prohibits attacking first. It does not prohibit > first physical contact. Again, there is nothing that says or implies that an > angel could not tap someone on the shoulder to get their attention. If doing so > resulted in the person hitting the angel (reflexively or otherwise), then the > angel could respond to that attack without risking dissonance, right? the issue > is who threw the first punch. Who made the first attack, trying to harm the > other? How that happened, and what lead up to that (teasing, mocking, or > trickery) are not the issue, as I read the dissonance condition. > But hey, that's just me. *snip* As I see it this discussion is no longer about what gives dissonance or not. Instead its about what dissonance really is. Its definition. In my eyes dissonance is that nagging feeling you get after having done something totally contrary to your expressed beliefs. What psychology calls "Cognitive Dissonance" if I remember it right. If that is the case we could think of a servant of David as if he was a Shaolin monk. He knows a lot about violence and how to use it, but dissaproves of it. Now IF that shaolin monk somehow had a way to transform himself to a bird and land on that poor unknowing demons shoulder thus making the demon lash out for the first move, attacking him would still be totally against all the Shaolin monk believes in. Dissonant as hell if you ask me. If, on the other hand, dissonance is something given to you by your superior as punishment we would have a totally different story. That would mean that the character will be free of dissonance as long as he can explain it to his superior in a "courtlike" fashion (or to the gamemaster). That would also mean that "people" dont feel bad about what they do as long as they can justify it to themselves, no matter how absurd the arguments can look to anyone else (this is on the other hand quite true as well). I myself prefer to see dissonance as the characters tendency to slip away into infernality by not following the "way" he believes to be the right way. That means that just being able to explain his actions by interpretion of words is far from enough to avioid dissonance. Philippe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 07:20:29 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotates of Stone - --On Thursday, January 4, 2001 11:43 PM -0500 EDG wrote: > > Intent to harm isn't what constitutes an attack. Otherwise, all > one would have to do to defeat an angel of Stone would be to learn > Aikido. > This is an exceedingly funny image - impudite-on-malakite of stone, the Mal's player begging, taunting, and finally, just deciding to eat the dissonance if he didn't get the fight he wanted. > > b) Yet baiting is acceptable. Where is the line drawn? > Where the line is always drawn; at the GM's tollerance for (attempted) munchkinism. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation (Has to put up with trolls in SR who routinely swandive off 4 story buildings simply because they *can*.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 07:30:09 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Dissonance (Re: Kyriotates of Stone) - --On Wednesday, January 3, 2001 5:36 PM -0500 Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > I think that an angel knows (though may deny it to itself) when it > is about to violate something _deliberately_. OTOH, an accidentally > unjust punishment or fate-pushing will just go _bong_ > unexpectedly... > I agree, and would add that the former case is usually prefaced by something I like to call the "chair arguement" to do an end run around the dissonance condition, flagrant backstabbing, or number of bullets inches away from his precious hide. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("I didn't shoot him in a fit of passion. I shot him because...um...it was best for the symphony. Yes. That's it." - Flennagan, Elohite of Judgement, attempting the philosophical equivalent of Dive For Cover moments before his dissonance condition kicks him into next Tuesday.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 07:42:05 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Quick questions - --On Wednesday, January 3, 2001 4:11 AM +0100 Philippe Bolay wrote: > 1. Hmm.. How come Furfur can have a strength of 14? I thought 12 was > maximum? For humans and run-of-the-mill supernaturals. Once you hit Superior level, all bets are off. (Aside, I don't see a limit mentioned in my copy of the APG. Where'd you find 12?) > 2. How does celestials normally contact their superiors? In the IN > basic rule set I get the impression (by the novel in the beginning) > that its done by summoning, but ascending to heaven and leave a > message or try to find them there would create a lot less > disturbance right? The first two answers that spring to mind are, "as infrequently as possible" and (and this might be more common) "by accident while hosing up spectacularly." > 4. I have 2 player Malakites in Austin. How do I solve that without > having them burn the city to the ground? Don't give them matches? Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation (Sloooooowly catching up.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 07:47:07 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Dead Presidents - --On Thursday, January 4, 2001 10:25 AM -0800 Maurice Lane wrote: > > True... but the Loas _aren't_ necessarily tied to one > culture just because their primary worshippers are. > I'm postulating here that the syncretic spirits are > actively (if discreetly) trying to break into virgin > territory here. So, your average whitebread suburbian > housewife won't worship Legba? Fine. Give her Elvis > and Betty Crocker [...] Moe, I've had an epiphany. You just explained why Martha Stewart is so popular better than anyone else who has ever tried. This *includes* my diatribe about how the Blair Witch and Martha Stewart are the same person. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 08:03:56 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal Spirits question - --On Thursday, January 4, 2001 12:34 PM -0600 Kris Overstreet wrote: > > "My brain hurts!" "It'll have to come out!" > > I think a little confusion is a good thing in a campaign. }:-{D > Don't your players generate their own confusion and doom? Marc. Just Marc. Elohote Angel of Salvation ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 08:20:33 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> January 4, 2001 - --On Thursday, January 4, 2001 7:30 PM -0800 Maurice Lane wrote: > This one's a bit of a reach, but what the heck. :) > Question: What happens if this is Sung backwards? Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("Are we not men?") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 08:28:07 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> A romance from Eden to Hell to Heaven - --On Friday, January 5, 2001 12:18 AM -0500 Charles Phipps wrote: > Not sure how it will end but I have a number of possible scenarios. > What do you think? I think that if I had a vessel that looked *anything* like Mike Meyers I'd be on my knees chanting, "we're not worthy!" Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 08:45:11 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Quick questions At 04:11 AM 1/3/01 +0100, you wrote: >1. Hmm.. How come Furfur can have a strength of 14? I thought 12 was >maximum? That's been listed in errata. http://new.sjgames.com/in-nomine/errata/nightmusic.html, last entry. Marc, I don't recall which book explicitly states it, but 12 is the upper maximum for "natural" Characteristics. Beyond that, you need Word-Forces to exceed that, or the transcendent nature of the Superiors. >2. How does celestials normally contact their superiors? In the IN basic >rule set I get the impression (by the novel in the beginning) that its done >by summoning, but ascending to heaven and leave a message or try to find >them there would create a lot less disturbance right? Yes, it would, and it's generally the most accepted method. However, there are going to be times when the celestial doesn't want to leave Earth (for one thing, time moves /strangely/ in the Celestial Realms), or when summoning one's Superior is the fastest method available. Another popular method is the Celestial Song of Tongues (15-word message in a bottle). >3. Is there a quick and easy way to calculate when someone hears a >disturbance or not? I dont want to just decide it without rolling since its >one of the few things my players actually get to roll for. Quick answer: Not really. Long answer: There are charts which several people have written up that simplify matters greatly, but, much to my chagrin, it's early enough in the morning that I can't remember where they are! Perry, others, help? >4. I have 2 player Malakites in Austin. How do I solve that without having >them burn the city to the ground? (I LIKE Autsin as a great campaign >setting). But I also dont want to kill them of for staying in character. 1) Malakim. 2) Depends on their Superior. A Malakite of Laurence might have orders to "protect the status quo in Austin, until I give you orders to go medieval on their infernal asses, soldier", while one of Dominic might be asked to allow the Triad in the area to complete their investigation before taking any action. (Both of these allow for Malakite oaths - a) it's /not/ their choice, and b) they will, in theory, be given the opportunity to kick ass and chew bubblegum later.*) Of course, if one of them is a servitor of Wind, it might be /positive/ to set the city ablaze... - -EDG * And they're all outta bubblegum. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 08:58:56 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Crash Test Angels? At 11:20 PM 1/4/01 -0800, you wrote: >In a comic-book world, the same thing would happen, but the Malakite would >discover that while he can't be separated from the runway, the runway can >be separated from the rest of the ground. He would be sent flying >through the air, with a surprised look on his face, and a chunk of runway >stuck to his feet. Funny, but improbable. The attunement doesn't say that the Malakite can't be separated from the ground; it says that the Malakite is "immovable and indestructible", which I take to mean that you can't move him, /period/. (All you literalists out there can just refrain from pointing out that this should technically drop the Earth far, far out of its orbit. :P ) Which now gives me the image of someone blowing up the Earth, and a bunch of Malakim floating around in space afterwards, in stone form, attached to about a cubic mile of planet each and wondering "What the hell?". - -EDG I'll leave the Malakite Belt, between the Red Planet and the Clouded Planet, to Moe. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:25:07 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> January 4, 2001 At 8:20 AM -0500 1/5/01, Marc Bowden wrote: >--On Thursday, January 4, 2001 7:30 PM -0800 Maurice Lane > wrote: > >>This one's a bit of a reach, but what the heck. :) >> > > Question: What happens if this is Sung backwards? You get your wife back, you get your job back, you get your truck ba-- Oh, sorry. Wrong punchline. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:23:49 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> The Redeemers [NPCs, no stats] At 8:21 AM +0000 1/5/01, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: >The Redeemers. > >(The Eighth Virtue is Moe's idea. The rest is a product >of my own insanity. Make of it what you will.) Actually, it's Ms. Cogman's idea -- from "You Are Here," and arguably it's the breakout star from that book, as it's the campaign idea most often referenced elsewhere, especially 'mongst the Fan press. I know I use it, Moe uses it, and others have as well. It's just one of those *good* ideas that make sense and won't let go. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 09:52:15 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> January 4, 2001 - --On Friday, January 5, 2001 9:25 AM -0500 Whistling in the Dark wrote: > At 8:20 AM -0500 1/5/01, Marc Bowden wrote: >> --On Thursday, January 4, 2001 7:30 PM -0800 Maurice Lane >> wrote: >> >>> This one's a bit of a reach, but what the heck. :) >>> >> >> Question: What happens if this is Sung backwards? > > You get your wife back, you get your job back, you get your truck > ba-- > > Oh, sorry. Wrong punchline. > I'd like you to know that you made me swallow - whole - a Dove Treasures candy. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation (*squeegie*) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 09:56:03 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotates of Stone Y'know, given the average demonic personality, I don't think any demon swatting at anything is going to be entirely free of the urge to hurt the target. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 10:20:44 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> The Redeemers [NPCs, no stats] If you ever write up their stats, you might want to give Selene the Divine Logic attunement from Destiny. (This would entail a bit of backstory, but that could just add to the interest.) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:36:07 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> The Redeemers [NPCs, no stats] - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl Wajenberg" To: Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 9:20 AM Subject: Re: IN> The Redeemers [NPCs, no stats] > If you ever write up their stats, you might want to give > Selene the Divine Logic attunement from Destiny. (This would > entail a bit of backstory, but that could just add to the > interest.) Given how Yves works, the backstory could potentially be as short as "Yves shows up, looks at Selene enigmatically, nods, says 'You're doing what you need to be doing', hands her an Attunement, leaves." - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 10:44:45 -0500 From: damienw@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Crash Test Angels? On Fri, 05 Jan 2001 08:58:56 -0500 EDG writes: > > Which now gives me the image of someone blowing up the Earth, and a > bunch > of Malakim floating around in space afterwards, in stone form, > attached to > about a cubic mile of planet each and wondering "What the hell?". > Or David catches wind of someone planning to blow up the Earth, and then he gets REAL free about passing out the Malakite of Stone attunement... come the appointed hour, the world is held together by Malakite Glue. :) - --- damienw[et]juno.com "To kill a man between panels is to condemn him to a thousand deaths." - Scott McCloud ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:53:43 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Crash Test Angels? From: > > Or David catches wind of someone planning to blow up the > Earth, and then he gets REAL free about passing out the Malakite > of Stone attunement... come the appointed hour, the world is held > together by Malakite Glue. :) David watched yet another section of the Earth's surface fly off into space, then frowned. "Looks like the shockwave still hasn't died down," he told his assistant. "Have the angel keeping Cleveland in place wait another hour or so before relaxing." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 15:58:35 -0000 From: "Laurent" Subject: IN> Minor choirs collection Hi and happy new year everyone! I know it's been asked before, but is there a full collection of minor choirs/bands somewhere? Or is it scattered across several unofficial sites? I'm looking for Creation, Wind and Fire choirs, as well as Dark Humor and Technology bands. Anybody came up with that? Thanks, Laurent. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 11:31:32 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Quick questions At 4:11 AM +0100 1/3/01, Philippe Bolay wrote: >1. Hmm.. How come Furfur can have a strength of 14? I thought 12 was >maximum? It is. Check the errata. (www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/errata .) If it isn't in errata yet, submit it. (Actually, there is one method by which angels can have a 13 score -- Khalid's people get a bonus to one stat. That's the only exception, and it _only_ goes to 13. You can't layer the attunements.) (And for those who don't see it, the 12 limit is at p. 35 of the main book, under "Characteristics," paragraph just above the table.) >2. How does celestials normally contact their superiors? In the IN basic >rule set I get the impression (by the novel in the beginning) that its done >by summoning, but ascending to heaven and leave a message or try to find >them there would create a lot less disturbance right? There are a lot of methods. If you NEED to talk to them quickly, then you invoke them. If you don't mind it getting filtered through, you talk to a Seneschal. (Demons don't often like having someone else able to get the information first, filter it to the other demon's best advantage, or take the credit...) Some Superiors have more "mundane" means of communication -- e.g., you can send Jean email. You can send Vapula email too, probably, but the server might be down for repairs... O:> The Celestial Song of Tongues might also work. >3. Is there a quick and easy way to calculate when someone hears a >disturbance or not? GM Fiat. (It's not that bad when you plug the numbers into the formula, but it is rather a pain.) >4. I have 2 player Malakites in Austin. How do I solve that without having >them burn the city to the ground? (I LIKE Autsin as a great campaign >setting). But I also dont want to kill them of for staying in character. Simple -- have your Malakim somehow ordered not to start fights. The "slay evil" has a loophole: If It's My Choice. Being ordered by one's Superior not to slay it, or not to slay it gratuitiously, removes it from the Malakite's choice. If you have a Malakite of Novalis, then they need to be peaceful if at all possible; one of Stone can't attack first. If their oaths include "try to redeem demons first," or "don't attack first" (akin to Stone), then they can be held in check that way. Mind, if you have a Malakite of Michael or Laurence, they'd really better be as dim as the Old Guy... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 17:00:20 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> The Redeemers [NPCs, no stats] >From: Whistling in the Dark >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > > >Actually, it's Ms. Cogman's idea -- from "You Are Here," and arguably >it's the breakout star from that book, as it's the campaign idea most >often referenced elsewhere, especially 'mongst the Fan press. Beth's originally IIRC. jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 13:56:10 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> A romance from Eden to Hell to Heaven At 12:18 AM -0500 1/5/01, Charles Phipps wrote: >This is an odd idea for a campaign but I'm working around with one of my >character's background as the main focus but I really need to know if it's >not going to sound as silly as I am making it out to be. Okay, up front here, the _idea_ is interesting. But looking at it from the viewpoint of a hypothetical problem, I see some flaws. (If you have these flaws covered, but didn't write the fixes down, then, well... Iz yer own darn fault for not writin' 'em down! O:> ) If "the Seraph" is supposed to be a PC, then this is looking like a railroad job and a half. If the player doesn't mind this, or likes it, then that's okay, but I, personally, would NEVER count on PCs doing all this stuff "to script." If the Seraph is _your_ NPC, then........ Are you sure there's anything for the PCs to _do_ here? They really seem to be having a serious case of the "we are essential background characters." (I mean, if your players _like_ doing that kind of thing, that's fine.) [...] >The story will take a different turn with the next adventure which is set >about twenty thousand years later with the PCs asked by Gabriel's servants >to act as heralds for the newborn King over a little barn in Bethelem. The >PCs will be required to watch but not interfere BOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRIIIIINNNNNGGGG. If you've got some good _side plots_ going, such as having demonic interferance which they can whomp, or otherwise do stuff around the spotlight, this might not be bad (especially for certain kinds of players), but the "watch and don't interfere" is otherwise likely to result in the GM talking to himself a lot while the players take notes (best case) or veg out. >Not sure how it will end but I have a number of possible scenarios. What do >you think? I think it's _way_ too scripted, personally. It depends on your players, but none of our groups would put up with it very well: the players are too-frequently incidental to the plot-as-written, and the plot-as-written seems to depend on them not doing something weird. If the Seraph Love Interest is a NPC, what happens if one of the _other_ PCs decides to be his rival? What happens if one of them discovers he's got the hots for a hyooman and vessel-kills him before he can get much further than that? What happens if one of them _Falls_? If your players are anything like the ones I know, you need to take a look at which parts of this plot have them Doing Nothing Of Consequence (to the plot or to themselves) and figure out several side-plot options to _focus_ on. And also make sure that you aren't doing data-dumps of "The Real Plot" for them to feel inferior and powerless about -- rumors are okay in some circumstances where "hard facts" would not be... But from where I'm standing, it's looking a lot like The Final Trumpet in Scope And Plotting, which is justly considered to be flawed by many, because there's not enough What Players Can Do To Affect Things. Interesting to read, fun to think about, but unless you've got the PCs in the major roles (and the PCs are in agreement with the GM as to how the plot "should" go), I think putting it into action will have problems. At least, that's how _I'd_ see it from what you've written. I need to go as I have a very cranky baby now... - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "I'm nursing a TROUT! With legs!" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 18:28:49 -0000 From: "Genevieve Cogman" Subject: Re: IN> The Redeemers [NPCs, no stats] - -----Original Message----- From: Whistling in the Dark To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: 05 January 2001 14:27 Subject: Re: IN> The Redeemers [NPCs, no stats] >At 8:21 AM +0000 1/5/01, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: >>The Redeemers. >>(The Eighth Virtue is Moe's idea. The rest is a product >>of my own insanity. Make of it what you will.) > >Actually, it's Ms. Cogman's idea -- from "You Are Here," and arguably >it's the breakout star from that book, as it's the campaign idea most >often referenced elsewhere, especially 'mongst the Fan press. I know >I use it, Moe uses it, and others have as well. It's just one of >those *good* ideas that make sense and won't let go. Okay, I have to be entirely fair on this one. The Eighth Virtue (together with foo.bar.com and the Police Station) were contributed by Beth McCoy, our beloved arcangel, to YAH. Give the lady the credit. It _is_ a brilliant idea. (It was handed over when I was tearing my hair out about having to write the book and having nervous collywobbles. I love it.) Genevieve Cogman ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 15:05:50 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> The 8th Virtue [Re: The Redeemers] At 6:28 PM +0000 1/5/01, Genevieve Cogman wrote: >Okay, I have to be entirely fair on this one. > >The Eighth Virtue (together with foo.bar.com and the Police Station) were >contributed by Beth McCoy, our beloved arcangel, to YAH. Give the lady the >credit. It _is_ a brilliant idea. (It was handed over when I was tearing my >hair out about having to write the book and having nervous collywobbles. I >love it.) More credit-passing -- the person who thought of the idea of a Malakite Convention was Walter Milliken. I tinkered with it, and made it a "floating" one, among some other minor changes. (Foo.Bar.Com is also his, also tinkered with. The Police Station is mine, and I actually called up the local police station and talked to a cool police officer. Call cops "Sir"; they always like to be flattered. (Paraphrase of something he said.)) - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "I'm nursing a TROUT! With legs!" ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jan 2001 21:37:04 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re:IN> The Redeemers [NPCs, no stats] On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 02:31:53 -0800 (PST) Maurice Lane wrote: >Date: 5 Jan 2001 08:21:01 -0000 >From: "-=|horsefly|=-" >Subject: IN> The Redeemers [NPCs, no stats] > >>The Redeemers. >>(The Eighth Virtue is Moe's idea. > >I wish. I got it from YAH, and keep using it because >it's so bloody useful. :) oops. my mistake. apologies to Moe and to G.R. Cogman. really. most sincerest apologies. having gone without You Are Here, i forgot who wrote it. i'll make it a point to pick it up as penance :) >>The rest is a product of my own insanity. Make of it >>what you will.) >Funny and interesting. Good for a campaign that isn't >taking itself uberseriously. thanks. i was going partly for that and partly for an air of mystery. i didn't want *too much* on The Redeemers to be rock-solid information. -=|horsefly|=- "It was a different time: a time of blood and guns and killings.... It was a time when killers needed saints, for so much of God's good work was being done." --SAINT OF KILLERS #4, Garth Ennis ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jan 2001 21:44:21 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> The Redeemers [NPCs, no stats] On Fri, 05 Jan 2001 10:20:44 -0500 Earl Wajenberg wrote: >If you ever write up their stats, you might want to give >Selene the Divine Logic attunement from Destiny. (This would >entail a bit of backstory, but that could just add to the >interest.) thanks, i'll keep that in mind. it's not too much of a stretch, either, to explain why they've been as successful as they're purported to be :) ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jan 2001 13:48:56 -0800 From: Casca Subject: Re: Re:IN> The Redeemers [NPCs, no stats] On Fri, 05 January 2001, "-=|horsefly|=-" wrote: > thanks. i was going partly for that and partly for > an air of mystery. i didn't want *too much* on The > Redeemers to be rock-solid information. ... because you never know when your players will be reading the list, neh? ;) - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 17:00:55 -0500 From: EDG Subject: IN> [NPC/Seed] Scipio Columen "" The little man grinned, dancing around the cave, his face ghoulish in the torchlight. "" The statue gleamed in the flickering light, a look of annoyance seeming to pass over its face. "" The speaker stood in front of the statue, reciting from a list. He did not look up. "" The bracers that had hung loosely around the statue's arms cinched tight; the collar around its neck and the manacles around its feet did the same. The speaker looked up and sighed quietly. "" He turned and started up the steep slope to fresh air. The little man grinned even more, and scampered after the taller one. "" he said, watching the bracelets on the other man's wrists sparkle as the torchlight caught them. Scipio Malakite of Stone Corporeal Forces - 4 Strength 10 Agility 6 Ethereal Forces - 2 Intelligence 4 Precision 4 Celestial Forces - 4 Will 5 Perception 11 Vessel: Human/3 Role: Gladiator/6, Status/3 Skills: Acrobatics/1, Detect Lies/4, Dodge/4, Escape/3, Fighting/3, Knowledge (Area: Rome/4, Area: Roman Empire/2, Area: Greece/2, Arena Fighting/5, How To Be A Gladiator/6), Language (Ancient Greek/4), Large Weapon (Gladius/4), Medicine/2, Ranged Weapon (Bolo/2), Running/3, Small Weapon (Dagger/4), Survival/3, Tactics/3 Songs: Harmony (Ethereal/3), Healing (All/3), Projection (Corporeal/3), Shields (All/3), Thunder/3 A gladiator in ancient Rome, Scipio Columen made a name for himself with his meteoric rise to the championship, and his strange gladiatorial practices made him an underground fan favorite: he always allowed the opponent the first attack, standing like a pillar in the center of the stadium until the other man struck, and he never killed an opponent, instead offering them his own gladius when it was clear that they had lost. Some dropped the sword and ran; most considered it the only honorable suicide. Scipio had been fighting in Rome for about three years when a man named Bellax discovered him and chased him to a cave outside of Rome. When it was clear that he was cornered, Scipio invoked his angelic nature and turned to stone, his body rooted to the ground, about to summon help to defeat Bellax, who had revealed his demonic nature and name, "Izzit", en route to the cave - and Bellax snapped four sets of Will Shackles on the warrior. Immediately, Scipio's friend and patron, Marcus Graecus, stepped from the shadows and began reciting commands from a list - and as the fighter felt the Will Shackles tighten about his wrists, ankles, and neck, he gave in to despair and stopped fighting. Scipio used his Song of Projection to attempt to summon help - but as he was forbidden to communicate, all he could do was hope that people would follow his astral form back to the cave. They did - and named the champion a god, bringing worshipers and priests from Rome to the cave which they named the Temple of Columns. And when the cave collapsed, and the temple fires went out, Scipio was left alone in the dark. Since then, Scipio has been using the Song of Projection to visit Rome and Greece - he's never been anywhere else except Heaven, and he doesn't know the Celestial Song - and is astonished by the speed at which things are progressing. Unfortunately, he hasn't been able to use it very often - he's busy maintaining the Song of Shields he keeps up around the temple to keep the soil from collapsing in on it. Unbeknownst to the poor Malakite, Marcus Graecus was soul-killed by Izzit not weeks after the establishment of the Temple... Other than visiting the mortal world occasionally, Scipio mainly sits in his dark cavern, the one note of dissonance still stinging. After all, there isn't a /whole/ lot that a statue can do to atone - indeed, there isn't much a statue can do at all... Seeds: - - While visiting Italy, the characters encounter a phantom dressed in ancient clothing. It makes no attempt to contact them, instead heading out to a remote place in the countryside. Once there, it descends into the ground. Anyone listening carefully will notice a slight disturbance, as if someone were continually spending Essence... - - During a fight in a museum, a low-powered Kyriotate of Jean attempts to possess the statue of an old Roman god, still ensconced within his temple. When the Kyriotate /bounces/... - - Someone unearths the temple (possibly led there by Scipio's ghost), and instead of helping the angel, he re-initiates worship of the warrior-god. This is no more than an inconvenience to the Malakite until the /Ethereal/ Scipio Columen shows up, reaping the worship-Essence, and the PCs are called in to deal with it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 22:34:10 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> GURPS In-Nomine [ethe form] > >oh. > >Whatever, thats B.S. if that were true, then mortals couldn't even exist >in > >the Marches at night. What meaningless tribble. *obviously* there's an > >ethereal form, otherwise how does ethereal combat work? what do you do, > >THINK each other to death . . . sheesh. > >Well, yes. Ethereal form does not exist. An _icon_ exists, representing >the being, but when you have mind hits, you have mind hits and they may >or may not show on your ethereal representation. (And mortals are in >dreamscapes, so that doesn't really count.) Hrm, and that's why dream elements /do/ count? (IIRC, dream elements can sometimes swiggle out of dreams and whatnot) >Yes, I think it's inelegant too, but it's in the _main book_ that way, >and I know that ethereal forms _used_ to exist in a previous draft, >so I know they were taken out deliberately. > >No, you don't have to conform to that, but there it is. Well, I think the main problem comes down to "definition of 'form'" Form as used in the main text refers to "a set form", whereas I was reading it as "a form of existance," like "phyisal form/body" or "celestial form/body" that acts upon and is acted upon. >You can change your ethereal representation with a Will roll, IIRC, >according to the Marches. Or at least I interpret one rule that way. AFAIK, that makes perfect sense. [ethes with cele forms] >Hang on, let me go get the book... p. 52, celestials in the Marches, >main book., for "no eth form." p. 53, The celestial - Heaven & Hell, for >"some spirits have celestial forms". Any other guidelines for /which/ spirits have vs have-not? Wouldn't a cele form be *necessary* in order to take Soul damage? ('cor, this isn't true, look at the Calabim of Lust attunement, which allows the demon to inflict Soul damage through a Vessel.) >(Pardon the typos -- I'm having my hair pulled or being bapped in the >face with an empty cassette tape box, for the baby is quite awake...) zero sweat > >> >>>I feel that this reflects the "spread the Good Word" job-point which >is > >> >>>one of the duties of an Angel in Magna Veritas. >[...] > >>Maybe I'll suggest that you could find a Pyramid article in it... O:> > > > >bleh. I don't even remember what the Hell we were talking about by this > >point. > >Modifying IN to be more like INS/MV with the One Body schtick, but not >quite the "Get killed, spend the next few hundred years waiting for >another body" method. > > >But on the spread the good word bit, I could see something that could be >an > >article (if I didn't have so much school work backed up here to do) in > >regards to the various duties of angels from INSMV and how they might be > >appropriate for Laurence. > >Schoolwork. Feh! Feh! Pity, that. We'll see, my load doesn't look /that/ bad . . . yet. > >>[...] > >> >>The GURPS IN book might actually help > >> > > >> >That sounds good. I'm still waiting for my copy. -sigh- > >> > >>Bummer! > > > >yeah . . . oh, well, they say anticipation's half the fun, right? > >"They" are idjits. O:< Actually, I would agree with them. :p >[...] > >>[Rites] > >>Mind, there's probably little to keep a Superior from discovering an > >>activity that produces _much_ "diffuse" Essence for it, and assigning > >>only 1 direct Essence. (With an expectation of getting, say, 3 back > >>later...) O;> > > > >Those would be cool and we'd be passing them out like candy. > >Oh-yeah. Just don;t go into denbt too much or there's tat sucking stra w >noise... (I have FEET on my keyboard!) ha ha ha > >>[...] > >>It eliminates all pretense of equality. > > > >"Bah! Equality?! I've never heard of such rubbish! All characters are > >created equal?! Nonsense." > >'Bout right. My characters are all evil minmaxers around a concept. Just >look at K.K. >[...] > >>Have I mentioned my attempt to convert a Werewolf back _into_ White > >>Wolf dots? Had to take a chainsaw to the result (she had about umpty > >>zillion dots), but she was a perfectly legal GURPS W:TA character.) > > > >heh heh yeah. That's because, I believe, GURPS allows for point >spill-over > >between attributes, skills, and powers. Not true in the White Wolf >system. > >Something like that -- also, the system of conversion simply wasn't >designed >to go both ways. (A major flaw, I think.) So my optimaxing of the WW >character (I wonder if the base cost for a WW character was based on some >of the conversions... Hmmm...) caused it to go off-the-scale when I tried >to reverse the dots-to-skill conversions. Hrm, I wonder if something similar will be true in GIN. > >natch (not sure what it means, but it sounded right) > >natch=Naturally. many thanks > >>[...] [blowing pts on skills] >Oh, quite. Like >http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/characters/Space/CaradocWu.html . >(15 points.) what? no statistics course? Well, okay, skills don't have to be expensive. Unless the player wants them at a higher level than Wu's. [blowing pts on advantages] >Give me 150 points and I do dat. (Advantage Girl! The Swiss Army >Psi/sunmage/ >Animal Empath Horseback rider extraordinaire!) again, I lament the lack of advantages in In Nomine. > >[...] My girlfriend has a lot of bad > >luck with dice (like, she almost never succeeds if there's a dice roll > >involved, swear to God), so she's learned to roleplay her way through >most > >situations so that she wouldn't have to roll and dice for her character's > >actions. > >Ohhhh, I know _that_ trick. My dice roll high, they do. And ze spouse's. >(Unless he uses an electronic program to roll them.) I fondly remember >a game session where I didn't make a single die roll... ha ha ha yeah. she's done that, too. >[...] > >>responsible for him eliminating psionics from the world. *sniff* But I >was > >>having _fun_ with the Swiss Army Psi.) > > > >The Swiss Army Psi? Can I use this character in my GIN campaign as a >CotG? > >(Hint: Tell Me More) > >Take 150 points. Take reasonable amounts of Power and Skills from each >Power-grouping in GURPS Psionics. Don't forget at least a level or two >of Psi Vamp so that you can steal your psi-enemies' Power and enhance >your own! (This is also good for seeing if there is sentient life on >the moon, if you can schluck a _big_ enough enemy. This is the trick >that got Psi destroyed on the world, I think... That and the Astral >Sleep on the manticores.) Release upon the world. Fear. Fear. Fear. Sweeeeeet. >Or, for a more reasonable version, you can check out >http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/characters/Space/XenoSolutions/Kelly.html . did, it's cool. I look forward to the powerful Psis in GIN. [psi mortals in IN] >Sounds a _lot_ like the fluffstuff we've been doing... The Space character >is speculating that "disturbance" is what happens when mass-energy >conservation is violated -- such as happens when Essence (energy) is >used, or something is broken by supernatural means. The microdisturbance >from the energy keeping vessels alive without food is just very micro... neat, when mass-energy conversion is violated. I can certainly see that. kinda. Still doesn't explain the disturbance from killing the crunchies, though. > >The anti-psi corp would of course be armed with Psi-shielded Helmets, > >Psionic Disrupters which explode and stun all those with Psionic gifts > >within range of the blast, and drugs that can be injected into Psis which > >act to interfere with their abilities. > >Oh, of course. (Though we _aren't_ putting resonances and psi on the >same "band" in our fluffstuff. Makes the psi-shielded techie more grumpy.) Hrm. I was thinking that Celestial powers would block magic -and- psi, because of their "God/Devil" origin. That and Songs are so much more expensive to fuel compared to Psi and Magic, in general. > >That, and Black Ops are just -so -damn -cool. > >Oh, well, of course. There's actually a mention of Black Ops in GIN, >p. GIN196. natch. :) >[Banning Kyriotate PCs] > >>Awwww, but they're _fun_! No, really, they're a blast. When the PCs use > >>them to spy on the evil demons, you can really hurry things along a bit > >>by making the evil demons about to do something evil, so the Kyrio >springs > >>to the attack before the players have plotted things to death. > > > >Okay, that's one good thing. > >Very. ha ha ha > >>(Okay, okay -- I wouldn't have missed the Giant Rat of Sumatra for the > >>world...) > > > >???? You should mean Talon (unoriginal I know, its what my unconscious >game > >me), the Huge Rat (angel of Jordi) who blew the whistle on them >consorting > >with Children of the Grigori as well as creating the /huge/ disturbances >in > >Chicago. > >Hee! No, no, I mean our Kyriotate of Creation with auto-CelSong of Form, >possessing a rat in the brothel where the Lusties had just had a little >girl sent up to their room. > >Then it knocked on the door. ah! Kickin' :) > >>But one DOES really have to know what they're capable of and plan for it > >>as well as have the NPCs plan for it. > > > >Not one of my strong points. My strong points are improvisation, wacky > >humor and forcing players to discover how their characters can deal with >a > >weird situation because it hasn't really been tailored to their >abilities. > >I'm working on it . . . > >Well, I improv-plan, myself. I get some vague ideas of what's reasonable, >and wing the rest. Seems to work okay, with players who are pro-active >enough. Yeah, that's the kicker. > >>[Kyrios being dissonant for leaving humans w/ memory gaps] > >>I could see that, frankly. It would restrict Kyriotates to aware humans > >>who could be informed of things, and animals.[...] > >> permit the occasional Superhuman Feat for > >>when the Kyrio wants to help someone out, but an eensy memory gap... >Hey, > >>I've had a few of those myself.[...] > > > >Like first thing in the morning? For me it's on the highway. heh heh > >Yeah, /that's/ safe. > >Jooooooyyyyy. Yeah, been there, done that. ha ha ha >[McGuffins] > >And in my first game, the Box was the MacGuffin (remember that EDG?) >only, > >it was USED in the end of the campaign. > >That happens sometimes, too! yeah, well, I thought it was pretty cool. The box started off at just the reason the Ofanite of Trade was present. Then, it became what everyone fought over. > >Ah, what a beautiful game. Especially when the Malakite exploded into a > >Discordant mess. Wasn't that you, EDG? A few sessions after your > >"I've got a +6 Clipboard " ?? :) > >Oh dear... Heh, I liked it. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2006 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.