From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Jan 7 11:18:13 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24800 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 11:18:13 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id LAA25532 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 11:18:26 -0600 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 11:18:26 -0600 Message-Id: <200101071718.LAA25532@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2009 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, January 7 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2009 In this digest: IN> Dead Presidents Re: IN> GURPS In Nomine (feedback) Re: IN> Fallen Purity Re: IN> Elohim of Novalis Re: IN> Elohim of Novalis Re: IN> Crash Test Angels? Re: IN> Crash Test Angels? IN> I often wonder what the vintyers buy, yadda yadda... IN> A New Skill IN> Website sorting IN> January 6, 2001 Re: IN> Website sorting Re: IN> Website sorting Re: IN> Website sorting Re: IN> January 4, 2001 Re: IN> Crash Test Angels? Re: IN> Website sorting ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 06:03:30 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Dead Presidents Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 16:47:05 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Dead Presidents > At 10:25 AM -0800 1/4/01, Maurice Lane wrote:> > >>>True... but the Loas _aren't_ necessarily tied to >>>one >>>culture just because their primary worshippers are. > I have to disagree. Ethereals are created by >belief, and belief is influenced by culture. >Basically, if it's not the product of the cultures >that produced Voudoun and Santeria, it'snot a Loa. OK, I _think_ I see the item of debate now. You're right, they're not Loas, in the meaning given above. They're just _called_ Loas, and have all the rights and abilities accorded to Loas (which are purely social and political), and generally act like 'real' Loas - among their own microflock. They're expected to bring in their own worshippers to the common pool, but the main pantheon realizes that this takes time. In short, it's a franchise situation. If that works IYC, cool. If not, also cool. :) Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 09:19:05 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> GURPS In Nomine (feedback) At 12:34 AM -0500 1/6/01, Perry Lloyd wrote: >[Essence & HT] >>[...] And it couldn't be an additional >>advantage, since mundane humans wouldn't have it. (We were *not* allowed >>to require additional stats or advantages to be added to normal humans.) > >Hrm, and yet Impudites were allowed to drain Essence from humans, who don't >have Essence. Oh, but they just merely lack "Essence Control" . . . yeah, >and that's why humans in GURPS Basic Set are able to spend all their >nonexistant points all at once and get a bonus to their rolls. That mechanic got dropped and is now the "in-game" explanation for luck of the dice. (Or GM fiat, really...) Let me reconstruct GIN Impudite (GIMpudite?) Resonance 1.5: There was a paragraph that everything had Essence, but normal humans couldn't _control_ it -- it slipped away as soon as they got it. Impudites could snarf _Fatigue_ instead, converting it into Essence through handwaving. I think the ratio was something like 3-4 Fatigue per Essence, since Fatigue was mu chnmn _much_ easier to come by. Made Impudtes a nd So ldies more powerfl as Esse nces sourc s. (JJ Y es,h the baby is playing on the keyboard.) >-sigh- At least Blood Points make sense, since humans in basic GURPS *do* >have blood. But they can buy it up and down or something, which was _definitely_ a no-no for us. Nothing that an imported human character would have been able to affect, that was what we needed. So if it hadn't had Essence Control earlier, well, it didn't have Essence Control and its Essence reserves were moot from _its_ point of view.0210 >>attributes, HT seemed the best fit, since it's the closest thing >>GURPS has to a measure of "life energy". > >ahhhhhhhh another reason why vampires in GURPS Blood Types drain HT (HT? Not hit points? Oh dear...) >I also >>wanted something as a separate driver for HT in conversion, since Strength >>wasn't really a good one. > >Lessee . . . Total Forces comes to mind, but probably wouldn't work well for >uneven force-distributed characters. True, but we also needed something to calculate HT from, when doing the conversion. >>I suppose I could also have used the mechanic I finally would up with to >>replace Forces for Kyrios, which was total attribute levels, but the >>math would have been messier, and I'm not sure the result would have >>been much better. It would have to be something like (ST+DX+IQ+HT)/6, >>I think. > >Giving Corp Forces-heavy PCs a definite advantage, which appears to >currently be the case so far for the IN characters we've converted. Probably no way around that -- GURPS has three physical characteristics (ST, DX, HT) and one mental/will/perception characteristic (IQ). Since all tjree pf tje cprporeal stats are tied up[ in IN CorpFOrces, well... >>The conversion process is by no means perfect. It was the best I could >>come up with that wasn't terribly complex and did a fairly reasonable job >>with more or less average celestials. > >It's cool. In my case, I mean, overall, the conversion feels pretty solid >to me, it just has kinks. Well, if you can figure out any irons that don't make the guidelines _more_ funky.... O:> (As a note, Jo Hart said that some of her GURPS Goblins characters back-converted fine. It seems to work moderately well with non-celestial existing GURPS characters -- I tested it on about 4-5 100 pointers.) >>They still can't raise their Essence Control without a Superior's >>intervention > >what page is that on? I haven't found that yet. (I can't fiond ot eotjer, but the baby was VERUY UPSET that I wouldn't let her eat my GIN book.) [Essence = Realm PowInvestiture?] >>Soldiers don't work right if you do that. That was my first thought. >>I couldn't find a non-klunky fix to that, and neither did the playtesters. >>(There was a *lot* of playtest discussion about Forces and Essence.) > >Wish I'd been there for it. It went on for a while.... If you _really_ want, I probably have the archives of the playtest board somewhere around here....... O;> >>I wasn't trying to keep the costs within any particular range, that's >>just how they worked out. > >Well, so much for my compliment. crap I'm sure he liked it anyway. O:> > There was >>a bit more to it than that, of course, since there were various experiments >>in building the powers from existing GURPS advantages. > >Bright Lilim of Destiny Attunement (from Fall of the Malakim, iirc): >I guessed the Lilim of Destiny Attunement as being a Symphonic Knowledge: >paths to Destiny/Fate ability with Limitations (only with Resonance use >-30%) for 21pts total. >It was either that or add an enhancement to the Bright Lilim Resonance, the >+% I'd be pretty clueless on. Suggestions anyone? Well, the Lilim resonance already _is_ a Symphonic Knowledge (and Influence) power, so sticking her with the base of it again is kind of wonky. IIRC (no way to check a book here), she knows whether the fulfillment of a resonance-detected need would lead the subject more towards fate, destiny, or [neither/both equally]. So it's a resonance rider, not an additional "with a touch" kind of thing. Check out Mercurians of Trade, who also get a rider of probably similiar utility -- they have a +100% enhancement to their resonance cost, which totals 30 points. I'd say that 20-30 points sounds about right for the Choir Attunement, myself, and 20-25 is the bestest range. O:> - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "I'm nursing a TROUT! With legs!" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 09:21:09 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Fallen Purity At 8:49 PM -0600 1/5/01, David Edelstein wrote: >Ryan Elias wrote: >> But here's a question I haven't really thought about (and that I don't >> believe has been covered in any book); do Uriel's rites still work? > >No. IIRC, this is, in fact, in the GMG? - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "I'm nursing a TROUT! With legs!" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 09:24:00 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Elohim of Novalis At 9:29 PM -0500 1/5/01, Charles Phipps wrote: >Out of curiousity can a plant detect demons and the undead perhaps better >than a angel? Canon is silent on the matter. It's up to the GM. >I argue that a tether's plants would taste of the flavor of a >tether and the side of the war while even a servant of Asmodeus with >humanity attunement would feel "off" to a planet. I would hope Humanity wouldn't register badly on a planet; Mother Earth is probably a rather powerful Genus Locii spirit... But the answer is no -- houseplants are not more powerful than Lucifer, the only being who gets to see through Humanity. (Presumably Asmodeus can either see through it, or knows his own Servitors.) God could, of course, but God has not been talking. Well, Divine Interventions... - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "I'm nursing a TROUT! With legs!" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 06:13:51 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Elohim of Novalis Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 21:29:26 -0500From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Elohim of Novalis >Out of curiousity can a plant detect demons and the >undead perhaps better than a angel? Demons... I'd probably say no. Undead.... yeah, sure, if you like. Unnatural perversion of the Symphony and all that. Don't see it becoming canon, but as long as it was subtle enough, I don't think it's too unbalancing. >I argue that a tether's plants would taste of the >flavor of a tether and the side of the war I like that idea, actually. Tether-wine would be one of the few things that Both Sides can agree upon as being a nice thing to have around (hmmm, a minor natural relic?): plus, it'll help celestials when they're looking for hidden or lost Tethers. They'd just look for the grapevines.* >while even a servant of Asmodeus with humanity >attunement would feel "off" to a planet.Am I right >here? I'd say 'no', unless the Attunement was imbalancing a particular campaign. :) Moe *Or maybe beans. Jack and the Beanstalk through an IN lens is ... an interesting way of examining Valefor's origins. :) ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 09:32:34 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Crash Test Angels? At 1:38 AM -0500 1/6/01, William J. Keith wrote: >As for "indestructible"... well, your Malakite had better hope he's not >playing G:IN, since there he gets a number for damage resistance - 66. >It's high, but I bet a high-speed Mack truck can beat it. ;^) GURPS has no reasonable value for Sessile, No Manipulators, and no talkin' to anyone, paired with Immunity To All Damage. I know, I tried. *sniffle* But yes, it's indestructible in the original. (And if I were running a GIN game with Stonies with this attunement, I'd call it indestruties too. O:>) - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "I'm nursing a TROUT! With legs!" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 08:18:20 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Crash Test Angels? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Santiago" To: Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 11:13 PM Subject: Re: IN> Crash Test Angels? > After thinking about this some more, another possibility > occurred to me. Any sort of bouncing back will be a gross violation > of the laws of physics, in that it will not preserve momentum. To quote one of Beth's favorite sayings, "It's a bloody *miracle*, awright?" Of course it's going to violate the laws of physics. In Nomine attunements and songs violate the human conception of physics damn near every time they go off. So? Who cares? God sure doesn't... *g* - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 10:44:33 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> I often wonder what the vintyers buy, yadda yadda... Well, _I_ think that it's interesting. They gotta drink _something_ up there.... :) Moe Tether-wine These artifacts are grown, not made. It was discovered, way back when, that long-term exposure to the energies emitted by a Tether did interesting things to grapes. Wonderfully interesting things. It takes about fifty years or so for a Tether to saturate the countryside enough to produce the effect, but once it happens anyone who knows how to make wine may make this artifact. Most of the larger Tethers find an excuse to have at least a few grapevines around somewhere: needless to say, Tethers to Flowers have a large advantage here. Tether-wine's level depends on the age of the vineyard it comes from: 50 years of existence will produce Tether-Wine/1, with additional levels coming with every doubling (thus, Tether-Wine requires a vineyard in existence for four centuries). The vines must be completely within the Tether's locus for the full bonus: for every 10 yards outside the locus, subtract one from the maximum level. Tether-Wine/1 is common enough to be served at the best parties. Tether-wine/6 is incredibly hard to get, unless you happen to work for a very old Tether: it's effectively reserved for Superior tables. The artifact acts as a special sort of Talisman: every level adds 1 to any roll or action that would support with the Word it originates from, for one hour. This bonus is not cumulative, and the user must drink the relic in order for it to work. Servitors of a particular Word who drink the same type of Tether-wine will also find themselves imbued with the Word's power: for them, every dose will remove one note of dissonance. A 'dose' is equivalent to 12 glasses of Tether-Wine/1, 6 of Tether-Wine/2-3, 3 of Tether-Wine/4-5, or 1 of Tether-Wine/6. This will, incidentally, make any drinker quite intoxicated (-4 to all physical rolls) but quite happy. Tether-wine never causes hangovers. Tether-wine, by the way, is exquisite in its flavor and bouquet, and may be of any normal color: there is an entire celestial subculture that argues, incessantly, about what makes the best combination of type and Word (especially prized are the rare blends that result from two Tethers' loci). Interestingly, this controversy utterly ignores Choir/Band alignments and Superior rivalries. It's even joked that true enthusiasts who share the same love for, say, a Lightning Red will cheerfully split a bottle, even if one's a Malakite of Stone and the other is a Shedite of Factions. Interestingly enough, once the vines have been altered, they stay that way, even after the Tether has been destroyed (this is often the only way to get the rarer types, like Death or Knowledge). The vineyards inevitably end up heavily used in local wine production (regular humans don't get any of the above bonuses, but their palates are sensitive enough to know when they've got something good, here). The location of more than one lost or destroyed Tether has been found by a determined series of drinking binges... Cost: 4 per level for a bottle (six glasses' worth). ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 18:57:58 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> A New Skill Massage (Precision) Default -2 This skill enables the user to give good massages. The uses of this skill include back, neck and foot rubs, relief of muscle cramps and tension, therapeutic massage, and erotic foreplay. Depending on the intent of the user, other skills such as Medicine or Role: Physical Therapist may improve the roll. Users with below-average Strength (less than 3 for humans, less than 6 for celestials) may have difficulty (-1) using this skill. NOTES: This is a skill that almost any Mercurian, and many Cherubim, might want. Servitors of Dreams (massages can put you to sleep beautifully), Flowers, and Creation might find it especially appropriate. Its healing and "sports medicine" uses might appeal to more warlike Servitors as well. (If you have ever endured -- "enjoyed" is not the word, trust me on this -- a massage to get rid of knotted or cramped muscles, you will understand why Servitors of Stone see massage as yet another example of "no pain, no gain.") On the demonic side, Impudites, Lilim, and any Servitor of Lust are the obvious candidates. Janet Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 19:14:49 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Website sorting I need some advice. I'm planning to revamp my site a little with the next update tomorrow (note the use of the word _planning_), and I can't decide whether to sort Servitors alphabetically, by Word, or by Choir/Band. Seeing as _I_ don't need any help finding stuff in my own site, I'd thought I'd ask: what's easiest for you guys? :) Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 19:54:34 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> January 6, 2001 I never come up with new Discords. I wonder why that is? Moe Epiphany (Ethereal) This particular Discord is inflicted on indecisive demons by Kronos whenever he's in a particularly sour mood. Usually, this means that it only shows up in incompetent Servitors of Fate, but it does sometime occur naturally. Those with this Discord have had their natures altered to make decision making intensely pleasurable. When the Discord is triggered, the celestial will find himself temporarily transported to a mental state where everything suddenly makes sense. He understands it all, for all too brief a time. Unfortunately, this sensation is profoundly false: the insights disappear when he comes out of it. The higher the Discord, the longer this state lasts, and the more trivial the triggering mechanism. Someone with Epiphany/1 will go into happy catatonia for a second or two after solving a particularly difficult mystery: someone with Epiphany/6 will zone out for an hour over successfully choosing which tie to wear today. While in this state, a celestial is absolutely helpless: he'll barely notice being sent to Trauma. Celestial damage will snap him out of the state, but disorientated (-6 to all rolls for 5 minutes). The celestial may choose to temporarily resist having an Epiphany with a Will Roll, with a minus equal to the level of the Discord and the number of times that he's successfully kept himself from resisting the call since the last bout of catatonia. Any celestial has a - -1 reaction from others per level of Discord (tripled in combat situations): they just can't be trusted. Note that this Discord doesn't help someone make decisions, except in the sense of operant conditioning (someone with Epiphany would be justified in taking Addiction: decision making, or even Addiction: Dissonance as a further Discord). Kronos originally wanted to give all his Servitors this Discord, but the side effects made that inadvisable. It still makes for a dandy punishment, though: Kronos routinely sends demons inflicted with this Discord immediately to the corporeal plane, and expects them to remain productive. It certainly encourages the others to be less vacillating... ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 22:04:50 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Website sorting - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice Lane" To: Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 9:14 PM Subject: IN> Website sorting > and I can't decide whether to > sort Servitors alphabetically, by Word, or by > Choir/Band. I'd vote for Choir/Band. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 23:25:16 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Website sorting From: "Maurice Lane" > > Seeing as _I_ don't need any help finding stuff in my > own site, I'd thought I'd ask: what's easiest for you > guys? :) I like Choir/Band sorting. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 00:53:51 -0500 From: "Casca" Subject: Re: IN> Website sorting > I need some advice. I'm planning to revamp my site a > little with the next update tomorrow (note the use of > the word _planning_), and I can't decide whether to > sort Servitors alphabetically, by Word, or by > Choir/Band. The INC sorts them by Choir/Band, but also gives the option of sorting by Superior. I like having this choice, and maybe you can steal the source code for your own implementation. - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 22:23:31 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> January 4, 2001 Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 08:20:33 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> January 4, 2001 - - --On Thursday, January 4, 2001 7:30 PM -0800 Maurice Lane wrote: >> This one's a bit of a reach, but what the heck. :)> > Question: What happens if this is Sung backwards? >Marc. Just Marc. >Elohite Angel of Salvation >("Are we not men?") You know, that's actually kind of amusing to contemplate. Thanks. :) Anyway, treat ir as a one-time application of THE DEVOLVO RAY!!!!!, just without the damage (IOW, shift either a Ethereal or Celestial Force over to Corporeal): not as effective as the artifact, though. :) Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 00:40:27 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Crash Test Angels? Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:53:43 -0600From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Crash Test Angels? >David watched yet another section of the Earth's >surface fly off into space, then frowned."Looks like >the shockwave still hasn't died down," he told his >assistant."Have the angel keeping Cleveland in place >wait another hour or so beforerelaxing." You know, that's a very strange image. I approve. :) More seriously (if "seriously" could even apply here), I wonder: does David has an Angel of Earthquakes ... or an Angel of Earthquake Prevention? Or both, and if so, just how badly do they get along?* Moe *Making them both Malakim would be especially funny, seeing as they can't then even hope that the other one will Fall. :) ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 11:09:35 -0600 From: "Erich S. Arendall" Subject: Re: IN> Website sorting > I need some advice. I'm planning to revamp my site a > little with the next update tomorrow (note the use of > the word _planning_), and I can't decide whether to > sort Servitors alphabetically, by Word, or by > Choir/Band. Generally, I've sorted by Choir/Band, but why not go crazy and sort only by Name - descending alphabetical? :) Okay, maybe not. But the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of Superior-based sorting, rather than the Choir/Band sorting... - -Erich S. Arendall I'd type the URL for Touched by an Impudite But it's leaving us come March. So there! ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2009 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.