From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Jan 13 15:19:36 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21522 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:19:36 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id PAA14746 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:20:29 -0600 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:20:29 -0600 Message-Id: <200101132120.PAA14746@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2018 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, January 13 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2018 In this digest: Re: IN> Can it really be that easy? Re: IN> Can it really be that easy? Re: IN> Can it really be that easy? Re: IN> Can it really be that easy? Re: IN> Can it really be that easy? Re: IN> Can it really be that easy? Re: IN> Collecting on a Geas. Re: IN> Song of Pregnancy Re: IN> Can it really be that easy? IN> Geas on Children Re: IN> Can it really be that easy? IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2017 Re: IN> Re: Baby-geasing Re: IN> The Nature of Loa IN> January 12, 2001 IN> Dream-love (seed) IN> IN: Demon of Telemarketing Re: IN> IN: Demon of Telemarketing IN> More on perception vs. will; rolling in games (was "Another new Skill") Re: IN> January 11, 2001 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 10:06:15 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Can it really be that easy? Janet Anderson wrote: > This infant Geas thing is a good idea and well written, but it > seems to me that if it were as simple as that to get Geases on > children, demons would a) do it all the time and b) have been > doing it for millennia. > So there must be some reason why they don't. If I recall correctly, the level of a Geas is proportional to the time and effort the victim would have to go to in order to fulfill the Need for themselves. Yes, a baby simply can't do most of the things it Needs done. But suppose the Geas gets devalued as the victim's abilities increase. Then, if the maternity nurse Lilim calls in a geas on a thirty-year-old, the victim only owes her as much effort as it takes a 30-yr-old to fetch a few bottles of milk and change a few diapers. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:47:11 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Can it really be that easy? >So trying to geas someone who has a mental problem -- brain damage, >Alzheimer's, etc. -- might also fail, if the person didn't remember >that the favor had been done? That would be amusing if the lilim geased someone who was drinking, and went on to get so drunk that the entire evening became a blur :) (Am imagining angels following lilim around so as to get their victims blind drunk.) jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 10:49:18 -0500 From: "Tyto Alba" Subject: Re: IN> Can it really be that easy? >Maybe the target has to _remember_ that someone did that favor? That, and >be able to comprehend the request when the Lilim is trying to invoke >the Geas. Maybe it also has to do with perception of the activity. Almost anything a doctor or nurse does on a maternity ward is not considered a favour, but merely doing their job. Otherwise, a lilim on a maternity ward would still be able to accumulate a huge number of geasa, but on the parents, rather than the child. In addition, most lilim wouldn't like working a maternity ward. They're messy places. tyto a. Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 10:55:29 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Can it really be that easy? >If I recall correctly, the level of a Geas is proportional to >the time and effort the victim would have to go to in order >to fulfill the Need for themselves. Yes, a baby simply can't >do most of the things it Needs done. But suppose the Geas gets >devalued as the victim's abilities increase. Then, if the >maternity nurse Lilim calls in a geas on a thirty-year-old, >the victim only owes her as much effort as it takes a 30-yr-old >to fetch a few bottles of milk and change a few diapers. > >Earl This sounds good; it balances the ease of fulfilling Needs for the weak against the fact that they can't do much. As for comprehending the Geas; well, yes. If they don't understand, there's nothing in their soul that gloms on and goes "Oh, damn, I *have* to do this now, don't I?" William ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 10:56:48 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Can it really be that easy? Jo Hart wrote: > (Am imagining angels following lilim around so as to get their > victims blind drunk.) Even if the geas worked, the lilim might not be very satisfied with the results produced by a blind-drunk victim. "I didn't mean for you to drive the getaway car *through* the bank!" "*Look* at where you put in that syringe!" "This is *Monopoly* money!" Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:16:10 -0500 From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" Subject: Re: IN> Can it really be that easy? Janet Anderson wrote: > > This infant Geas thing is a good idea and well written, but it seems > to me that if it were as simple as that to get Geases on children, > demons would a) do it all the time and b) have been doing it for > millennia. > > So there must be some reason why they don't. In my game, the way Geases worked was that they were infernal contracts -- a Lilim could only get a geas from someone if they explicitly agreed to make the bargain. I did this because it moved them closer to the classic archetype of pacts with Hell. So an infant, because it could not understand the consequences and could not intelligently consent, could not be bound by a Geas. They still had an interest in children, though -- Lilim could and did strangle and murder infants because it made Mother happy to see the children of Eve die -- and it served Freedom to liberate humans from the burden of child-rearing. (Yes, it's petty and vindictive. Lilith's a Demon Princess, what did you expect? :) - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 09:10:13 -0800 (PST) From: Joey Lyon Subject: Re: IN> Collecting on a Geas. A smart Lilim would use the assistance of an associate who has the song of attraction - it specifically states that the cong can be used to track those who owe favors. 8) Bright Lilim of Eli - --- Ben Pollack wrote: > Not having access to some of the Revelations books > right now -- I know that advanced Lilim mechanics > are discussed in one of them -- I consider this > rather a puzzler > at this time, and I'm wondering what the collective > thought processes are out there right now: > > You're a Lilim. You fulfill a Need. Your target, > being a rather sly angel, with 20/20 Hindset, > figures out not from the Need fulfilling but from > something else that you are a > Demon; based on the Need fulfilling, he then > realizes that you are a Lilim. He begins, at that > point, to avoid you like the plague. How do you > collect? Do you mail the > guy a seemingly anonymous letter that reveals your > identity partway through once he's already started > reading it? Do you wake him with a late night phone > call after > tracking down his unlisted number? Do you e-mail > him? > > In short, must Geas hooks be called in face-to-face? > > I'm a little nervous about allowing for unrestricted > use of Geas hooks outside of a face-to-face setting, > personally, but I'm not sure what a good solution > is. Any ideas -- > even if just to tell me I'm being silly and paranoid > with my fears -- are appreciated. > > > > > Ben > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:26:26 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Song of Pregnancy From: "Elizabeth McCoy" > > Telling you, though, you need a Kyrio of War with a Baby vessel for > the real one This gave me a mental picture that brillo couldn't scrub out of my brain... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:43:42 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Can it really be that easy? From: "Jo Hart" > > (Am imagining angels following lilim around so as to get their victims blind > drunk.) Can't have any Kyrios involved, is all. ;) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 10:01:12 -0800 From: tcp@zoomnet.net Subject: IN> Geas on Children The reason children arn't routinely geased by Lilim and it's collected years later isn't because of gaurdian angels and it CERTAINLY is not because they lack the sentience to appreciate the bargain (many children I know are smarter and know more than adults about reality and the War). The reason is simply it's not cost effective. A lilim will want routinely to indulge her Prince and herself in self gratification (usually both at once) and demons are not patient beings. They'll want geas on Hollywood stars, the President, Beutiful people for (wink wink), rich people, etc. If you do geas a child and get him to do something horrofic (more Shedim style than Lilim) then angels so help you God are going to come down on you like wildfire...and given most demons have permenant residences in an area this is not a good thing...you've also made Christopher's personal @&@* list. If you wait til the geas is done you have about 20-30 years of a geas burning a hole in your pocket and the chance he might move, people will be curious about your aging, and that your reassigned/killed. Being a demon is not good for health my .02 - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 12:44:47 -0600 From: "Eeyore" Subject: Re: IN> Can it really be that easy? - -----Original Message----- From: Prodigal To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Friday, January 12, 2001 11:47 AM Subject: Re: IN> Can it really be that easy? >From: "Jo Hart" >> >> (Am imagining angels following lilim around so as to get their victims >blind >> drunk.) > >Can't have any Kyrios involved, is all. ;) Who do you think posseses the bartender to get him to keep serving? J. Michael Neal ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 13:03:38 -0600 From: Adam Ensinger Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2017 Janet Anderson wrote: > This infant Geas thing is a good idea and well written, but it seems to me > that if it were as simple as that to get Geases on children, demons would a) > do it all the time and b) have been doing it for millennia. > Who says they aren't doing it all the time? Resonance use causes no disturbance, remember....and the Lilim actually doesn't have to invoke her resonance until much later, when the former infant is capable of repaying the debt owed to the demon. > So there must be some reason why they don't. > > I thought of guardian angels, but the numbers required to protect every > single child until he or she attained some degree of spiritual maturity > would be prohibitive. (To say nothing, of course, of the fact that some > people never *do* achieve a level of spiritual maturity greater than a > child's. But I digress.) I don't really think it would require a guardian angel for each and every baby in the maternity ward....just one well placed Cherub in each hospital. Sure, that's still a bunch of Cherubim, but I doubt your average Lilim is going to be thrilled at the prospect of tangling with a Cherub who views all of these babies as his/her charges, whether the angel is attuned to them or not. I can imagine Zadkiel and Christopher having a whole division of Cherubim assigned to this kind of duty....not only as maternity nurses, but hospital janitors, nurse's aides, hospital transport staff, and the like. > Or maybe the acceptance of a Geas requires a level of sentience greater than > a child's. A Need is a Need, IMO....doesn't really matter if it's from a newborn or an adult. Geas-hooks are forever > Janet Anderson Adam Ensinger ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 14:57:37 -0600 From: Santiago Subject: Re: IN> Re: Baby-geasing > > Or maybe the acceptance of a Geas requires a level of sentience >greater than > > a child's. > >A Need is a Need, IMO....doesn't really matter if it's from a newborn or >an adult. Geas-hooks are forever But, if you can geas someone who isn't even aware that you're helping them, where do we draw the line? Can you geas a dog? I'd say an adult dog has a better understanding of the world than a newborn human. And getting him those tasty biscuits off the top shelf that he can't reach would give you a nice hook on him, and I doubt his will is enough to resist the hook later... - -- Santiago ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 18:42:52 EST From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> The Nature of Loa In a message dated 1/11/01 6:47:25 PM, thunderdog_sa@yahoo.com writes: >--- MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: >> I'm confused - I thought 'Loa' was the generic In Nomine term >> for an Ethereal spirit on Heaven's side > > No, Loa is the specific name of the class of spirits created >by the Afro-Caribbean syncretic religions. The only generic >terms for spirits in IN are "spirit" and "Ethereal." > Then I've been infected by a Moe-ism. Because that's the way *he's* been using Loa. (Gojiro as a loa, Uncle Sam as a loa, King Arthur as a loa...) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:12:16 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> January 12, 2001 St. Salvius I wished to relate but which one? Oh, isn't _that_ great? Now I'm left in the lurch; For it's just like my Church To use the same name two days straight.* Moe *According to the online Catholic encyclopedia, that is. Actually, there's an seed there: two Saints with the same name, who have heard that there's going to be a new church erected, and it'll be specifically named after him. Which him? Well, that's the problem: the Church has sort of confused the two, and now their own exploits (half of which never happened, and the ones that did were mutated beyond all belief) are all mixed up. Now, the Host can get a little twitchy when parishes get named after human saints: some of the honorees never made it into Heaven. Many of the ones that did were completely unaware of the War. In this case, both of the Saints were Soldiers, and the mixed up legends might actually clue the Enemy in on an old operation. Can't have that? The PCs mission, should they choose to accept it (they'd better), is to escort the two Saints down to the Corporeal plane while they convince the diocese to rename the new parish something innocuous. There's a _reason_ why so many churches are named after Mary... ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 00:36:53 -0500 From: "Aaron Medwin" Subject: IN> Dream-love (seed) Mike is a Soldier of Dreams, and he's quite good at his Corporeal-based job. As a reward, his Mercurian friend, also serving Dreams, crafted a wonderful dream for the lovesick Mike. In the dream, Mike fell in love, and did the whole 'living happily ever after' deal. The only catch is that Mike actually fell in love with the woman in his dreams. Except she's not real. Not that that stopped him, though. He became obsessed with this woman, and he searched long and hard for a way to make her real. Wishing for it with all his heart and soul and Essence, she appeared to him in another dream, as a newly born Ethereal. She loves him just the same, and he gives her all the Essence he gets. She's a few months old now, and still undiscovered. She's almost got enough Essence now to create a human Vessel. That's when the PCs meet Mike(preferably in the Marches, but corporeally could work), and he makes comments like "got to sleep, got to see her tonight". Investigation is easy - he's not aware of the Host's policy towards Ethereals, and so doesn't hide anything. However... what do the PC angels do to an entirely benevolent Ethereal, especially when one of the Host triggered the dream that led to her creation in the first place? And is that a roving Triad of Judgment coming into town? For PC demons, well, if a demon can't figure out something suitably vicious to do to one or both of these star-crossed lovers, he should just forfeit his horns already. Blackmail, corruption, or even simple torture should be easy to do. - -Aaron Medwin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 00:46:14 -0800 From: "Wade Hursman" Subject: IN> IN: Demon of Telemarketing Ok Moe, you asked for it, and here it is. Hope you like it. For the rest of you, comments and critiques are appreciated. Wade "And now, Ms. Johnson, for only 4 payments of $39.95 you can have this revolutionary new microwave too. Yes, I know it seems like a lot of money, but just think of how much time this will save you. You'll be able to take the kids to soccer, and then bring them home to a hot meal. All you'll need to do is put it together before you leave, and press the timer on your new Revolta Mk. II microwave oven. Good, I'm glad to hear it. You won't regret this, Ms. Johnson. Now if I can just get your credit card number and billing address....." You've all heard them on the phone, making their sales pitch. And you've all screamed in frustration when you _just_couldn't_make_them_stop_talking. And you thought Hell had nothing to do with it? Luriel Habbalite of Technology Demon of Telemarketing Corporeal Forces: 3 Strength: 6 Agility: 6 Ethereal Forces: 4 Intelligence: 10 Precision: 6 Celestial Forces: 5 Will: 12 Perception: 8 Word Forces: (Suggested) 3-6 Vessel: Overweight human male, age 30 / 2 Role: "Wade Jenkins" Telemarketing Technician (Status/2 Level/4) Skills: Emote/3, Fast-Talk/4, Language/3 (English), Lying/3, Dodge/2, Ranged Weapon (Pistol)/2 Songs: Thunder/4, Motion (Corporeal/3), Entropy (Ethereal/3) Attunements: Habbalite of Technology, Technobabble, Demon of Telemarketing Demon of Telemarketing (1): Luriel can use his resonance on anyone he speaks to over the phone as if he were in line of site with them. Note: He may use his mood ring only to check the mood of the person he is speaking to, so he it is possible that he may suffer backlash when using his resonance in this manner. Demon of Telemarketing (2): Once he's convinced his customer that he really, truly does need whatever is being sold today, with a successful Will role, Luriel can cause that customer to purchase CD units of whatever product he's pitching. Additional Rites: Make a sale of a totally useless product to someone who can't afford to buy it. Make a sale of 10+ units of a totally useless product to someone who can't afford to buy even one unit. (+2 Essence) To be perfectly honest, Luriel despises physical contact with other beings. If it weren't for the fact that the company he works for refuses to pay overtime, he'd sit at his phone 24/7 making call after call. Human Resources, however, has issues with employees that attempt to collect 16 hours of overtime, every day. So, he found himself a Role that lets him punish the weak, without actually having to meet the little buggers face to face. You'd think, that with the Word of Telemarketing, Luriel would work for Nybbas, right? Nah, Vapula owns this Punisher, lock-stock-and-barrel. Fledging as a Habbalite wasn't that much of a surprise to this imp. Luriel couldn't get enough of making the other imps, gremlins, and snotlings do stuff that they _really_ didn't want, or even like, doing. Now, he gets to punish the weak, push technology, and have fun, all at the same time! He worked his way up the ranks, starting in Testing, then up to Lab Assistant, and finally, graduated to Corporeal Research. Finally! A chance to teach the little dirt-eaters a lesson. Luriel walked into a call center, sat down, and made a sale. Then another, and a few more. Within a month, the call center he worked for had numbers that just _couldn't_ be beat. In fact, "Wade" showed such potential that they promoted him to a supervisory position. After 2 dozen employees quit on the same day, all of them claiming various emotional issues, they decided that Wade was better off working on the phones. And that's just the way he likes it. You'd be surprised just how much anguish a human can feel when the bill for their new appliance arrives. Especially when the bank balance arrives on the same day. Luriel lives for that. Of course, even on the calls that he doesn't make a sale on, he still gets to punish people. Do you have any idea how much the average person hates to hear: "My name is Wade, and I'm just calling to inform you of a new opportunity..."? On the down side, Wade has a problem. He's made a name for himself at the call center he works for. A _big_ name. One that's almost bound to make some enterprising Servitor of Trade come snooping around. You see, it's just not possible for someone to make a sale on every call. Statistically, it's impossible. The company is willing to put up with his "little" eccentricities because of the revenue he brings in. But they aren't gonna want to protect him when the FAA steps in, claiming that he's using illegal methods to make his sales. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 03:39:23 -0600 From: Santiago Subject: Re: IN> IN: Demon of Telemarketing >On the down side, Wade has a problem. He's made a name for himself >at the call center he works for. A _big_ name. One that's almost >bound to make some enterprising Servitor of Trade come snooping >around. You see, it's just not possible for someone to make a sale >on every call. Statistically, it's impossible. The company is >willing to put up with his "little" eccentricities because of the >revenue he brings in. But they aren't gonna want to protect him >when the FAA steps in, claiming that he's using illegal methods to >make his sales. FAA, sma-AA, what he's got to worry about is what happens when word of him reaches Bun-bun, an ethereal spirit with about 800 corporeal forces, several levels of the Murderous and Angry Discords, a relic switchblade, a monster essence flow from a certain web comic, and a *severe* dislike of telemarketers... - -- Santiago ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 08:48:58 -0500 From: TJ Howell Subject: IN> More on perception vs. will; rolling in games (was "Another new Skill") It is a difficult trade-off between will and perception. If you don't have a good Perception score, you can never get your resonances to work. If you don't have a good Will score, however, demons walk all over you. You'll believe whatever a Balseraph tells you ("I'm your Superior in disguise. Why don't you give me that artifact..."). Habbalah can make you into sad, pathetic do-nothing creatures. Lilim can put Geases onto you with perfect ease. Shedim can possess you and make you do bad things. Impudites. Oh wait. Impudites can never do interesting things to angels. And, YES, Mr. Edelstein, I DO believe in having my characters make rolls for perceiving important things. Character perception and player perception are NOT the same. The way I generally model this is that players can successfully complete the adventure, even if they do miss all the clues. Getting some clues (some of which are passed off by me "for free" for perceptive PLAYERS, others are given to perceptive CHARACTERS) will make the adventure easier. For instance, say I have a plot line involving a demonic kidnapping, one that the players are warned of beforehand. Only the demons have the jump on the PCs, and get there first. A perceptive CHARACTER might notice suspicious characters leaving the premises, and might avoid a long, drawn-out investigation. But they CAN investigate the crime scene, even if they miss the perpetrators leaving as they arrive. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:18:10 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> January 11, 2001 - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > Numinous Corpus (Pregnancy) I loooooove this. I can see it causing all manner of havoc. I was of the understanding that Numinous Corpus could only be used on oneself, but even with that limitation it's still a great piece of work. I can see it now, a Kobalite in a male Vessel and this Song -- working with a demon of the Media with Photography and a Role with the Enquirer... ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "If you want someone to take off their armor, you must first put down your sword." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2018 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.