From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Jan 25 00:07:04 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA05756 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 00:07:04 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id AAA31499 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 00:08:32 -0600 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 00:08:32 -0600 Message-Id: <200101250608.AAA31499@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2029 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, January 25 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2029 In this digest: IN> Twisted little toy Re: IN> Twisted little toy IN> Anyone remember.... IN> An Open Letter from Laurence Re: IN> An Open Letter from Laurence Re: IN> An Open Letter from Laurence Re: IN> An Open Letter from Laurence Re: IN> An Open Letter from Laurence Re: IN> An Open Letter from Laurence Re: IN> An Open Letter from Laurence IN> OT (maybe) Origins Awards Re: IN> OT (maybe) Origins Awards IN> Ess-Ee-Ex! Re: IN> Ess-Ee-Ex! IN> January 22-24, 2001 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:10:07 -0600 From: Santiago Subject: IN> Twisted little toy The Hormonorator This particular little device is the result of collaboration between servants of Vapula and Andrealphus, though some argue that Kobal may have provided a little under-the-table inspiration. A Hormonorator appears as a fairly standard (that is, cliched) Vaputech Raygun, and its use requires the Ranged Weapon:Handgun skill. It strikes with an accuracy of +1, due to its light-speed beam, which appears as a sort of tacky pink laser. Rather than do any damage, the target suffers from some rather unusual effects. On a successful hit, the victim must make a will roll minus the Hormonorator's level. If they fail, they take a number of "hits" of Hormonation equal to the check digit of the failed roll. Each hit inflicts one level of the Lustful discord, and causes increased pheremone emission which raises the user's Charisma, for sexual purposes only, by one level per hit. Additionally, it triggers a mild numinous corpus that causes inappropriate enlargement of any relevant parts, from barely noticeable at level one to porn-star-sized at level six, which is fortunately the maximum number of hits that can be inflicted on a single individual, even through being zapped repeatedly. The levels of Hormonation subside at one per hour, until the victim returns to normal. - -- Santiago ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 07:28:54 -0600 From: "Bradley Paranial" Subject: Re: IN> Twisted little toy >From: Santiago >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: IN> Twisted little toy >Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:10:07 -0600 > >The Hormonorator This is complelty uttterly and absoultly filthy. Well than again it's a Lust/Technology joint production. I like it, even though part of me wished I didn't Bradley Paranial. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:49:43 -0400 (AST) From: Philip Vincent Barkow Subject: IN> Anyone remember.... A while back there was discussion about using the main Babylon 5 plot-line (the Vorlon / Shadow War) as an In Nomine plotline. The lead to a quite well done write up on it (I think it was by the Redneck Gaijin). Anyone recall where to start looking in the digests? Thanks in advance. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:38:02 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: IN> An Open Letter from Laurence This is an Editorial written by none other then Sir Laurence, Malakite Archangel of The Sword, Commander of the Armies of Heaven and Humber Servant of God, submitted to the "Daily Revelation", Heaven's own Newsletter, recently created by the Angels of Revelation. The intent of this Editorial is to present a few of the controversial Purity Crusade, by one who participated in it. The views expressed therein do not reflect the views of the "Revelation's" managment. An Open Letter from Laurence. Greetings. I speak to you now, not as the Commander of the Armies of our Lord God, but as a humble Malakite who can no longer stand the idea of slander being made upon the memory of his Lord Uriel, nor on the Purity Crusade. I have heard many a people condemn the Crusade as an act of insane cruelty to the Ethereals, and as a deed which damaged the human cultural consciousness, traumatizing many... The record must now be made straight and clear concerning this matter. The Purity Crusade was a just and rightous act, inspired upon my Lord Uriel by God Himself. Many of you don't remember how the Ethereals used to act when on the Corporeal Realms, while others simply ignore that the humans used to fear the creations of their own dreams just as, if not more often, they worshipped them. Of the Ethereals predating the Crusade, the Pantheons were perhaps the worst. They were Parasites feeding on human dreams at best, and monsters who tortured Humans and extorted Essence out of them at Worst. Look upon the stories of Greek Myth; of Athena, in a Jealous fit, turning a girl into a spider, of Zeus using trickery to sleep with mortal women and neglecting his wife, and of Herakles killing his own family when drunk. Read those tales, and then look me in the eyes and tell me we were wrong to seek to slay these monsters. Was not one of the Greek Gods Pan, lord of the unreasonning fear called "Panic"? Or perhaps you'll speak to me of the Asgardians, and claim that Odin and his Aesir Warriors would've made fine aids come Armageddon. I hope you'll forgive me if I scoff once I hear your words, though. Odin was a god of Chaos and Unreason, one who schemed endlessly to try and get an advantage at Ragnarock, in an attempt to avoid his Fate. He would've sold Heaven out for a slim chance at Surviving Armageddon, I assure you. His son Thor, though probably the most Honorable warrior in all of Asgard, was too devoted to serving his insane father to agree to obey Heaven's laws. Thus we had to Purify Asgard as well, lest they interfere with Heaven's works come Armageddon. Maybe you'll speak to me of the Faeries, and of how the Seelie court may be our allies against Hell and their own Unseelie cousins. How thick is the line that seperates Seelie from Unseelie, I ask? There is a reason why the Humans spoke of Faeries as "The Good Folks", "The Little People" and "The Gentry". They sought to appease them, by not attracting their attention. This smacks to me of Nightmares, not Dreams. The Faeries kidnapped humans, dragging them into their realms in the Marches, and having their way with them. They took pleasure in acting as self-proclaimed judges of Right and Wrong, thinking themselves above Our Lord God's laws. Between the works of Disney and Tolkien, too many people nowadays forget that their ancestors feared the Faeries of Old. The Mythological Beasts of Old weren't much better, as I recall. Most of them made themselves plagues upon Humanity, preying on innocent people rather then natural animals. The Manticores stalked humans and ate them whole, clothes and all. Griffons played both sides of the Celestial War, seeking to serve Heaven AND Hell, but without commiting to either side. And the Sphinxes... I assume many of you are familiar with the twisted Ethereals created by the works of the late HP Lovecraft? Allow me to inform you that the Sphinxes would've made fine additions to his Mythos. That is all I will say upon this. And then there be the Dragons. That anyone would seek to resurrect these foul beasts makes me believe that al of the Host has gone insane! Have you forgotten what kind of monsters those Dragons where? I have not. They were foul Fire-Breathing beasts who hoarded treasures stolen from men, and who attacked villages to steal cattle to eat... with sometimes an innocent maiden or two to add variety to their meals. Many of my compatriotes died during the battles against the Dragons. And now you speak of bringing back those horrid beasts? May God forgive you for insulting the memory of my souldead friends... For I cannot. Some of my fellow ethereals criticize my views, and hope to recruit the Ethereals to Heaven's side, proclaiming that anything made from human imagination cannot be wholly evil. I would remind them that when the Purity Crusade came, the Ethereals did not run to Blandine's tower to seek redemption. They ran straight to Beleth's tower to make a deal. There is a reason people speak of Faeries paying a Teind to Hell. We would do well to focus our attentions upon God's true Children, the Humans. For not only are Hell's prey, but they are the prey of their own dreams gone wild. May God be with you. Laurence Archangel of The Sword Commander of Heaven's Armies. Servant of God. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 19:14:45 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> An Open Letter from Laurence >This is an Editorial written by none other then Sir Laurence, Malakite >Archangel of The Sword, Commander of the Armies of Heaven and Humber >Servant of God, submitted to the "Daily Revelation", Heaven's own >Newsletter, recently created by the Angels of Revelation. The intent >of this Editorial is to present a few of the controversial Purity >Crusade, by one who participated in it. The views expressed therein >do not reflect the views of the "Revelation's" managment. Editor's Note -- The "Daily Revelation" is now privileged to present this rebuttal letter from Archangel Michael, Firstborn and Champion of the Host. [Even if we had to bleep out some of his word choices. Sorry, sir, but Christopher keeps reminding us that this is supposed to be a family-friendly publication.] >An Open Letter from Laurence. > >Greetings. Kid, you really ought to have bounced this 'revelation' off of me in private before sending it to the papers. At least that way, your dressing-down would have in private too. As is, now I'm going to have to chew some [hide] off of you in public. But hey, you earned it. >I speak to you now, not as the Commander of the Armies of our Lord God, Good. That means the Hyena can't annoy me with attempted 'insubordination' charges -- again -- for the verbal [naughty bits] I'm about to kick you in - -- again. >but as a humble Malakite who can no longer stand the idea of slander >being made upon the memory of his Lord Uriel, nor on the Purity >Crusade. I have heard many a people condemn the Crusade as an act of >insane cruelty to the Ethereals, and as a deed which damaged the human >cultural consciousness, traumatizing many... The record must now be >made straight and clear concerning this matter. Uh-huh. Like *nobody* else in Heaven is as old as you are, Grandpa, and couldn't possibly have been around to remember the events of the time for themselves. After all, that was a whole fifteen hundred years ago. Why [heck], that's a whole *eternity* just right there. >The Purity Crusade was a just and rightous act, inspired upon my Lord >Uriel by God Himself. Grrrrrrrrrr. So, now you claim the ability to speak for God himself? Especially when it's being privy to relevations direct from him to one of his Archangels... a status you weren't anywhere remotely near at the time? You keep going around talking like that and I won't be the only Archangel the Hyena ends up putting on trial for Pride and Heresy. And odds are pretty good that you *won't* get God intervening as *your* character witness. You and me have *really* got to talk, Junior. >Many of you don't remember how I know you're the General of the Host now and I'm just your loyal comrade-in-arms, but *really*. Maybe you haven't quite grasped it, but when it's coming from a guy who's younger than approximately 67% of the Host and 95% of the Seraphim Council, that kind of statement is really really [annoying]. BTW, Sergeant-Major Samuel wants to see you after work today. I don't know about what, but I noticed him borrowing Ogiel's stick earlier this afternoon. Better break out the bandages. >the Ethereals used to act when on the Corporeal Realms, STOP THE PRESSES! I'm actually going to agree with Dominic about something. And no, that *wasn't* Gabriel's Horn you all heard being blown. Junior, have you ever heard of this concept called 'innocent until proven guilty'? It's one of the only things that Judgement ever got *right* inventing, IMO. Or how's about this one -- 'blanket prejudgements are the weapon of Hell?' That's one of the things I think *Flowers* got right, and I've got no problem admitting it. Sure, *some* Ethereals are downright scum. Lots of 'em. I ought to know, I helped Uriel smear enough of them. But *some* of 'em *ain't* scum. And the key is actually caring -- yes, *caring*, I *do* actually know what that word means, thankyouverylittle -- about what the *difference* is. Do you really think it's a *coincidence* that I never ordered a Purity Crusade during my tenure as Commander of the Host? [Bleep] no. God is infinite and his resources are likewise infinite... but *we ain't God*. We've only got so much to do, and so much to do it *with*... and Hell is the first priority, always has been. If it messes with humanity in a harmful way, it dies. The Symphony at large knows I've got no problem with *that*. But "it" is supposed to be a *singular* word, not a plural. Baal and Malphas are in charge of killing people by labels and categories. We should (and in my case, damn well *are*) in charge of killing 'em as *individuals*. Hell, I've let *demons* walk... occasionally. If it would have individually worked best in that situation. (And don't even *think* of starting in on that admission, Hyena, even *you* let good Redemption candidates skate. I've *seen* you do it. Care to try denying it?) >while others simply ignore >that the humans used to fear the creations of their own dreams just >as, if not more often, they worshipped them. If I might confess a private doubt of mine [I said back *off*, Dominic! I am *NOT* in the mood today!], I've always wondered why the Lord God, the Creator and Shaper of all the Universe, would care about what to *Him* would be a truly ingignificant amount of Essence (he's got *infinite* Essence -- trust me, he's got it) so much that *He* would want the Marches razed and burnt just to recover it, especially given all the collateral damage of innocents. Sure, the Essence would have been lost to *us*. "Us" being us angels, the Host of Heaven. But we are *not* God, we are merely the *servants* of God. If *we're* losing Essence, that just by itself is not enough cause to sanction a slaughter of anything but an already declared hostile. If we ever slip from fighting in the name of God to fighting for our own selfish benefit, we are *deep* in the [fertilizer]. >Of the Ethereals predating the Crusade, the Pantheons were perhaps the >worst. They were Parasites feeding on human dreams at best, When it comes to Dreams -- more importantly, when it comes to making *decisions* about Dreams -- God has already announced who's in charge of that. Blandine. And I know her and I don't see eye-to-eye, but that doesn't change the fact that the Marches are one severely weird place to understand for the unititiated, and that she's forgotten more about them than most of us combined will ever know. Refresh my memory, O Wise Elder Who Was There During It All When We Weren't. Who was the foremost *opponent* of the Purity Crusade? Oh yeah, that's right -- the Archangel of Dreams herself. Who was *only* the single most knowledgable person in all of Heaven short of God himself about the nature of the terrain and its inhabitants that you were Crusading over. Ahhhhh, what would *she* know? Don't try to convince *me* that the Purity Crusade was necessary to save 'human dreams' from 'parasites', kid. Oh, and Blandine? If you want to rake Laurence over the coals for this one, drop me a note first, OK? I *really* want to see that. *g* >and monsters who tortured Humans and extorted Essence out of them at Worst. Hey, Huitsopochtilie and company were *good* choices for extermination. >Look upon the stories of Greek Myth; of Athena, in a Jealous fit, >turning a girl into a spider, of Zeus using trickery to sleep with >mortal women and neglecting his wife, and of Herakles killing his own >family when drunk. Read those tales, and then look me in the eyes and >tell me we were wrong to seek to slay these monsters. When you could have been using that same commitment of effort, materiel, and personnel down on the corporeal plane to help work against the *causes* of such tales? *ETHEREAL STORIES ONLY REFLECT HUMAN CONCEPTIONS OF THEM*, remember? What, did you *sleep* through that part of class? Or did Uriel [bleep] up his troops' training schedule even worse than I'd thought? Sometimes I blame myself, honestly. If I'd only spent more time talking to him... >Was not one of the Greek Gods Pan, lord of the unreasonning fear called >"Panic"? If you really want to help stop human fear from having its concepts spread in the Marches, then they should have taken the troops of the Purity Crusade and led 'em over to Beleth's Tower. *That* might actually have done something *useful*. >Or perhaps you'll speak to me of the Asgardians, and claim that Odin >and his Aesir Warriors would've made fine aids come Armageddon. Hey, Thor ain't that bad. He needs strict keeping in line, true, but you could say the same thing for the Tsayadim. Or some of Gabriel's more hot-headed troops. (Yes, yes, and about some of my own more rambunctious brawling squads, too. OK?) >I hope you'll forgive me if I scoff once I hear your words, though. No, I won't. And I'll belt you a good one besides. >Odin was a god of Chaos and Unreason, one who schemed endlessly to try >and get an advantage at Ragnarock, in an attempt to avoid his Fate. *spit-take* I'm sorry, but you made that sound like a *BAD* thing? Fate = Hell, remember? AVOIDING YOUR FATE IS EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO HAVE THE ENTIRE SYMPHONY AT LARGE DO!!! What, did Baal catch you alone in a corner and resonate your skull inside out or what? I'd better get over there and check for that. >He would've sold Heaven out for a slim chance at Surviving Armageddon, >I assure you. From your vast personal experience with him, I presume? I knew him a lot better than you did, and while I wouldn't trust that devious old bastard around a glass corner I *could* at least trust him to have a functioning brain cell. He knew damn well that if Heaven lost Armageddon, Lucifer would have no further use for anything that wasn't an infernal. Including the entire Ethereal Plane. >His son Thor, though probably the most Honorable warrior >in all of Asgard, Damn straight! >was too devoted to serving his insane father to >agree to obey Heaven's laws. Look, can we *try* to lose the Purity indoctrination and at least learn a *little* flexibility here? No, the Ethereals would never have been perfect servants of Heaven, all acting exactly according to the rules. Heck, some of our own angels ain't that perfect. Do we scourge them with fire and sword too? When's the date set for that one? Cripes. >Thus we had to Purify Asgard as well, >lest they interfere with Heaven's works come Armageddon. Kid, killing something because it *might possibly* turn to evil in the future is a great argument for butchering all of humanity... and all of the Host, too. *WE'VE* got the 'potential for evil in all of us, it's why we Fall. No, wait, I'm talking to a Malakite here. Hrm. Maybe that was the original problem. Anyway, take *my* word for it -- you know my word's good. You've got a *big* failure in the basic premise here. >Maybe you'll speak to me of the Faeries, and of how the Seelie court >may be our allies against Hell and their own Unseelie cousins. How >thick is the line that seperates Seelie from Unseelie, I ask? Well, it *used* to be a bit thicker, until sheer desperation turned every single Faerie left alive into an enemy of Heaven... Look, if you're such the historical voice of expertise here, then riddle me this. Name a single ethnic cleansing in history that ever produced a 'greater good'. 'Cause that's what the Purity Crusade *was*. We weren't killing them because they were the enemy, we were killing them friend, neutral, and enemy alike just because they were *different*. For God's sake, can't you see how *WRONG* that is? >There is a reason why the Humans spoke of Faeries as "The Good Folks", "The >Little People" and "The Gentry". They sought to appease them, by not >attracting their attention. This smacks to me of Nightmares, not Dreams. You are *really trying* to make Blandine blow her stack, aren't you? One word of advice, Junior -- DUCK! >The Faeries kidnapped humans, dragging them into their realms >in the Marches, and having their way with them. And we went, kicked their miserable asses, and took 'em back. Like I said -- if the ethereal in question was guilty, we slaughtered it. If it wasn't, we let it live. Doesn't that make a lot more sense than blanket butchery by category? War doesn't play *that* game! And neither should Purity have done so! Purity starts at *home*, Junior! >They took pleasure in acting as self-proclaimed judges of Right and Wrong, >thinking themselves above Our Lord God's laws. OK, OK, *that* was deserving of a good smack upside the head, admitted. But take it from the Symphony's greatest authority on warfare -- *that* war wasn't anywhere near as necessary as you claim it was. >Between the works of Disney and Tolkien, too many people nowadays forget >that their ancestors feared the Faeries of Old. Irrelevant. >The Mythological Beasts of Old weren't much better, as I recall. Actually, they were a damn sight worse. Most of 'em. >Most of them made themselves plagues upon Humanity, preying on innocent >people rather then natural animals. The Manticores stalked humans >and ate them whole, clothes and all. Griffons played both sides of >the Celestial War, seeking to serve Heaven AND Hell, but without >commiting to either side. And the Sphinxes... I assume many of you >are familiar with the twisted Ethereals created by the works of the >late HP Lovecraft? Allow me to inform you that the Sphinxes would've >made fine additions to his Mythos. That is all I will say upon this. Might I point out the logical fallacy involved in using the works of an author who post-dated the Purity Crusade by a millenium and a half as an even an *analogous* justification for said Crusade? >And then there be the Dragons. That anyone would seek to resurrect >these foul beasts makes me believe that al of the Host has gone >insane! Have you forgotten what kind of monsters those Dragons where? For the last time, Junior -- *ENOUGH* with the 'memory' thing! [Bleep], two whole millennia old and he starts acting like he's just younger than the Firstborn... ... hmmmmmmmmmmm. >I have not. They were foul Fire-Breathing beasts who hoarded treasures >stolen from men, and who attacked villages to steal cattle to eat... >with sometimes an innocent maiden or two to add variety to their meals. >Many of my compatriotes died during the battles against the Dragons. >And now you speak of bringing back those horrid beasts? May God >forgive you for insulting the memory of my souldead friends... For I >cannot. I seem to recall that back when people were speculating why you were Uriel's replacement instead of I, one of the lead theories was that because I was a bit too prone to think with my emotions, as opposed to your more cool-headed approach. But if this is any indicator, were they wrong or what? >Some of my fellow ethereals I'm assuming this is a typo, not a Freudian slip. >criticize my views, and hope to recruit the Ethereals to Heaven's side, Yeah, so we're all idiots, right? >proclaiming that anything made from human imagination cannot be wholly >evil. You misstate. Nothing made from human imagination can be *fixedly* evil. Because human imagination is capable of being changed. Admittedly, the efforts involved in making some changes is far greater than the effort necessary to just rip its skull out -- but you face the same "vs." equation every day, when deciding whether a demon is capable of Redemption or not. By the Infinite Names of God, didn't you even bother to *resonate* the Ethereals as you were hitting them? Even demons got a fairer break from you than *that*! >I would remind them that when the Purity Crusade came, the Ethereals did >not run to Blandine's tower to seek redemption. Gee, you think that maybe could possibly have been because YOU WERE STANDING BETWEEN THEM AND IT? >They ran straight to Beleth's tower to make a deal. Some of them, yeah, it's 'cause they were evil sods. But for the rest? They went that way because it was the only clear line of retreat we'd left them. Which was the *stupidest* part of that whole damn deal. As I remember saying. Often. Look, if I'm trying to butcher somebody while crying out at the top of my lungs that "God Wills It!", I can understand why he might have the mistaken impression that the rest of my fellow Archangels aren't going to be any more sympathetic than I am. After all, we're *supposed* to all be unified of purpose up here in Heaven, right? >There is a reason people speak of Faeries paying a Teind to >Hell. Yeah. Hell was smarter than the Purity Crusade was. >We would do well to focus our attentions upon God's true Children, the >Humans. For not only are Hell's prey, but they are the prey of their >own dreams gone wild. See above, re: "If Blandine has a different opinion, who's the expert? You or her?" >May God be with you. He'd *better* be, 'cause nothing less is going to save you from the [butt]-chewing I'm going to go right over there and give you as soon as I put this pen down. And if I don't hurry, I probably won't be first in line! Yours truthfully if not cordially Michael, Champion of the Host _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:57:50 -0500 From: damienw@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> An Open Letter from Laurence On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 19:14:45 "Charles Glasgow" writes: [snip] Oooh. Very good, both of you. Quite in character, especially Michael's response... one could definitely use this as the seed of a campaign, too; Maybe after Laurence gives his 'editorial', Michael decides to start championing the cause of the Etherials a bit more... - --- damienw[et]juno.com "To kill a man between panels is to condemn him to a thousand deaths." - Scott McCloud ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:04:17 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> An Open Letter from Laurence What led you to paint Michael as a puffed-up high school sophmore with little or no reasoning skills in his rebuttal? That wasn't the impression I'd gotten from anyone else's write-ups to date, unless I missed a LOT. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("Back up. When did '133t' become a Distinction?") ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:15:54 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> An Open Letter from Laurence From: "Marc Bowden" > > What led you to paint Michael as a puffed-up high school sophmore > with little or no reasoning skills in his rebuttal? That wasn't the > impression I'd gotten from anyone else's write-ups to date, It also wasn't the impression I got from reading the reply to Laurence's letter, especially because it raised some really valid points about why the Purity Crusade really was a bad idea. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:26:01 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> An Open Letter from Laurence [Being a note written in response to the Laurencian Editorial and the Michaelite Response] While I would never presume to stand between the Commander-General of all the Lord's Armies and the Firstborn Archangel of War and Champion of Heaven, I feel it necessary to lay forth some clarifications. First, on the matter of the Righteousness of the Purity Crusade: No Judgement was rendered on this issue. Given available depositions, our available understanding of the nature of Ethereals, and the scope of authority that Uriel, Archangel of Purity and Commander-General of all the Lord's Armies, it was determined that clear guilt or innocence could not be rendered. It is noted that the Archangel Michael did speak at this trial -- his comments, deposition and testimony remains in Open Record both in the Halls of Judgement and at the Library. He questioned the good judgement of the Crusade, though he did not call for the guilt or innocence of Uriel specifically, speaking more as an expert witness. Naturally enough, his commentary reflected his opinions and the Truth he has stated in his rebuttal. Secondly, on the matter of the Righteousness of the destruction of Ethereal Beings and Mythological Creatures: No Judgement was rendered on this issue. At that time the nature of Ethereals is not yet well known enough to definitively state the Truth of their design. We do not know if they are indeed creatures created out of the imagination of humanity with all the Destiny and Fate of any other sapient being, or if in fact they were, in Jean's words, freestanding algorhythmic constructs with no more 'reality' than Eli's dancing puppets. Further, while mythological creatures were in fact clearly living beings, it is not known if their creation by the Archangel of Animals was in fact a usurping of Divine Right and a circumventing of the Divine Order and Great Chain of Being as Uriel alleged -- necessitating a purification of the Symphony as befit his Word. No charges have been brought forth against Jordi, and none are being considered at this time, and Judgement has never been ascertained or attempted in that allegation. Therefore, no Judgement can be made upon this matter. Thirdly, on the matter of the Exceeding of Authority by Uriel: No Judgement was rendered on this issue. The essential question of the rights, privileges and sanctity of the domains of various Archangels (notably Blandine) and the Seraphim Council as a whole versus the authority of the Commander-General was determined to need the advice and consideration of the Seraphim Council. Therefore, that Judgement was suspended pending a consideration of the issue by the Council as a whole. The Intercession of the Lord rendered this point moot and the Seraphim Council has to date declined to review the issue. There has been no Judgement as of this time as to the Righteousness or lack thereof of the Purity Crusade or its commander, and none has been implied. Any opinion regarding the Crusade or Uriel is simply that, opinion, and there is no means by which the Truth can be ascertained. I would remind the Archangels of the Sword and War that Opinions remain that, and Truth cannot be determined at this time. In Service to Heaven, Dominic Archangel of Judgement - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:28:59 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> An Open Letter from Laurence At 2:15 PM -0600 1/24/01, Prodigal wrote: >From: "Marc Bowden" >> >> What led you to paint Michael as a puffed-up high school sophmore >> with little or no reasoning skills in his rebuttal? That wasn't the >> impression I'd gotten from anyone else's write-ups to date, > >It also wasn't the impression I got from reading the reply to Laurence's >letter, especially because it raised some really valid points about why the >Purity Crusade really was a bad idea. And the characterization contained what I think are the core elements of Michael's character, albeit perhaps not how I'd have used them myself: 1. Certainty. Michael is the First Seraph. He knows Truth. 2. Bluntness. Michael is uninterested in dancing around the Truth unless the battle requires it. 3. Testosterone. In the great Dog Kennel of Heaven, Michael's always going to be the one humping, not the one being humped. So, I liked it. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 20:38:08 GMT From: daiv@cruzio.com Subject: IN> OT (maybe) Origins Awards If you care about the origins awards then you might want to look at Steve Jacksons rant, found as the Daily Illuminator (for January 24) at www.sjgames.com/ill/ If not then do not waste your time. IN Content... If this happened within the context of IN, maybe it would be the result of a plot involving The Game and Factions. Assuming that RPGs are not, in IN, a Tool of Lucifer to corrupt the youth of the world. (see David E.'s Jack Chick In Nomine, the link for which escapes me at the moment.). - -Daiv haiku prophecy see seventeen syllables into the future. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:07:05 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> OT (maybe) Origins Awards daiv@cruzio.com wrote: > Assuming that RPGs are not, in IN, a Tool of Lucifer to corrupt the youth of > the world. (see David E.'s Jack Chick In Nomine, the link for which escapes me > at the moment.). http://www.amadan.org/Innomine/Jack_Chick.html - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:11:54 EST From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: IN> Ess-Ee-Ex! I was sitting thinking about a discussion that was going on some time ago about sex in In Nomine, and the differences between Lust and Love. Or more specifically, the differences between Andrealphites and Creationers. Some people's definitions of the level of love required for the Creation Rite seemed almost prudish. Here's my opinion.... Imagine a scene. A bar. A celestial (named Jack) is driving through town on his way somewhere. He stops at the bar for a drink. He spies an attractive girl and buys her a drink. They speak for a while during which time the girl gets noticably more friendly and even a little flushed. She is obviously excited. (Jack has successfully performed a seduction skill roll.) Jack and the girl pay the bartender and leave, going to a nearby Motel 6. They spend several hours having sex. Jack then leaves, and never sees the town or the girl again. Is Jack an angel of Creation? Or a demon of Lust? On the surface, Lust would seem to fit the bill. But the answer ultimately lies in what Jack was thinking during the entire process. Let's look at the case both ways. Jack, Impudite of Lust. Jack steps into the bar. He sees an attractive woman sitting alone at a table. "All right!" thinks Jack, "A cute piece of tail. She looks like she could tide me over till I get where I'm going." He walks up and buys her a drink. He fails his resonance roll, but that's okay. Jack likes a challenge. He talks a skillfully practiced line, telling the little piece of meat what it wants to hear, using all the right phrases and inflections designed to manipulate her emotional state into serious arousal. They adjourn to the Motel 6, and he proceeds to use her body in a variety of interesting ways. The Impudite, satiated, then proceeds to walk out of the door without a word, and leave her forever. Soon after, the girl, feeling used, cheapened and degraded, gets dressed and goes home. Jack, Mercurian of Creation Jack steps into the bar. He sees an attractive woman sitting alone at a table. "She looks lonely," thinks Jack, "Maybe I can make a new friend." He walks up and buys her a drink. He resonates her to get some info. She's just come off a bad relationship. She doesn't feel good about herself. She feels unattractive and unlovable. Jack begins telling her what she needs to hear, skillfully weaving his words to make her feel sensual, beautiful, womanly. She begins to feel serious arousal. The two adjourn to the Motel 6. They then have a seriously good time giving each other pleasure. In between "rounds" they talk and laugh. She knows he isn't staying. He told her that up front. But she's happy not to be alone tonight. After several hours, Jack gets up, kisses her goodbye, and with a tinge of regret and sadness, leaves her forever. Soon after, the girl, feeling physically worn out, but emotionally revitalized, if a little sad, gets dressed and goes home. To the outside observer, (who descreetly waited outside the motel room) the events were identical. Guy picks up girl for one-night stand, then leaves her behind. This is why other angels often don't trust Creationers. To the casual observer, they act like Lusties. Creationers often don't believe in monogamy. It's a good idea. Some people really love it. But really, isn't there too much love in the world? Too many people to connect with? If only for a night, or a week? A Creationer would insist that yes, there must be love. But love doesn't always have to be till-the-end-of-time eternal love. It could be a five minute conversation where two guys really connect in a conversation about football. It could be meeting a woman at the supermarket and having a two-week fling that ends with fighting but was beautiful while it lasted. Did Jack the Impudite love the girl? Hell, no. Did Jack the Mercurian love her? That depends on how you define love. There was definitely caring. And Jack is a Mercurian; by definition he loves all humanity. Plus Creationers (in my opinion) often view sex as a means of creating a bond. Of strengthing a mere sense of liking someone into something stronger. Anyway, I know it's been awhile since we've talked about this, but it often takes awhile for me to formulate thoughts into words. ;) Your thoughts? Reverend Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 19:50:30 -0800 From: "Wade Hursman" Subject: Re: IN> Ess-Ee-Ex! /snip/ Plus Creationers (in my opinion) often view sex as a means of creating a bond. Of strengthing a mere sense of liking someone into something stronger. Anyway, I know it's been awhile since we've talked about this, but it often takes awhile for me to formulate thoughts into words. ;) Your thoughts? Reverend Brian A. Rogers /end snip/ Let us not forget that both Lusties and Creationers can regenerate Essence by having sex. Not only do we need to consider the emotional aspects of this encounter, we really do need to know if either of them: 1) Considered using the evening as a chance to regain Essence, 2) Which one of them, if either of them, did use the encounter to regain Essence, and finally, 3) Why they needed the Essence. Wade Habbalite of Technology, Demon of Telemarketing _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:05:35 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> January 22-24, 2001 OK, this is embarrassing. I'm not supposed to actually have to _work_ at my job, but apparently they've wised up to me. Dammit. What I had planned to provide as a seed was actually fairly neat, I thought. You see, once upon a time the so called "Queen of Olympus" (Hera: never mind those upstarts like Athena) got a visitor. He said that he was Zeus. Now, Hera had often gotten had such imposters calling upon her, and she knew very well that they weren't the 'real' (whatever 'real' means in this context) Zeus. However, said jumped-up ethereal spirits, frankly, usually didn't look this good. Modern television and movies have encouraged popular perceptions of the ancient Greek gods to be more telegenic than in the past. Hera decided to indulge herself just this once. In the process, she discovered something wonderful. This version of Zeus was as dumb as a stump. Better, he knew it, and thus had no problems with taking direction from somebody smarter, just as long as the Essence kept rolling in. This had... possibilities. The major goal for any banned pantheon is, of course, to get their hands back on the juice: extra points for doing so without having to beg it from Beleth or Nybbas. Hera thinks that she can maybe, just maybe, manage it. The trick is to go somewhere where Heaven and Hell are so busy fighting each other that they can't spare the specialists needed to keep the scavengers down. These days, the best place for that is this human Internet: Jean, Nybbas, Eli, Mammon and Marc are in the middle of an interesting little deathmatch (with real blood!), and they won't be done for a while. So, here's the plan. Olympus will enter the computer age. A miracle here, a bit of propoganda there, and the encouragement of a whole lot of superstition everywhere sounds like the perfect recipe for getting a bunch of anarchistic netizens invoking the Olympian pantheon... even if they don't 'really' believe in them. They just have to not be _sure_. Hey, it works for Eris (who's webmistress to this little ploy, over the strenuous objections of Arachne). No reason for her companions to not get in on this. Zeus gets to be the figurehead (and chief scapegoat if/when this goes sour, something that he hasn't figured out yet). Hera gets to sit in the background and watch the till. The problem? Does there have to be a problem? Well, I suppose that there should be. Well, aside from the fact that the first project (an attempt to foster Sentimentivae: encouraging agricultural festivals is always a good call, especially if you dump the actual folklore and substitute stuff that appeals to your audience. The humans often equate 'harvest' with 'fertility' with 'naked women' with 'sex': why disappoint?) is going to clash horribly with the minor Catholic holiday that _Laurence_ is trying to promote on the Web (in that heavy-handed way that the Malakim) do so well... not much. What, you're wondering why the Archangel of the Sword is trying to promote the marriage of the Virgin Mary? Come _on_, people: to Larry, _all_ of the holidays are important to him. That guy just loved the medieval period, and got real annoyed when the Church cut back on the Holy Days of Obligation. Sure, he still goes, but it's just not the same... Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2029 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.