From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Jan 28 04:34:34 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA15953 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 04:34:34 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id EAA10480 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 04:35:40 -0600 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 04:35:40 -0600 Message-Id: <200101281035.EAA10480@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2036 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, January 28 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2036 In this digest: IN> Request the purity crusade discussion continue Re: IN> Request the purity crusade discussion continue IN> some ethereal gods and their comparative roles. IN> Hell campaigns> Fufur's World Uriel reinstating the slain (was: Re: IN> The Crusade of the Sword.) IN> Lucifer's pad IN> Re: The Crusade of the Sword - The Pen, Mightier Than the Sword? IN> The In Nomine Collection Re: IN> Re: The Crusade of the Sword - The Pen, Mightier Than the Sword? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 23:22:06 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Request the purity crusade discussion continue I object to David's request (So Sorry, it's like Calling Lilith a Demon prince, I know Iolanthe is female from her writeup) Lady Beth and would like the discussion to continue on the grounds that it's interesting and we're learning alot of interesting stuff about the various perspectives of the war. I found it interesting and the dissection enlightening and most of all fun. Don't kill it - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 23:16:33 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Request the purity crusade discussion continue Charles Phipps wrote: > > I object to David's request (So Sorry, it's like Calling Lilith a Demon > prince, I know Iolanthe is female from her writeup) Lady Beth and would like > the discussion to continue on the grounds that it's interesting and we're > learning alot of interesting stuff about the various perspectives of the > war. > > I found it interesting and the dissection enlightening and most of all fun. > > Don't kill it I made no such request. I think the discussion has moved past the "interesting, enlightening, and fun" phase, but I said I will be abstaining because I can see where it's going, and I expect that it probably will be killed in the near future if I'm right. But I'm not someone who asks for discussions to be squelched; you're confusing me with someone else. When I get sick of a thread, I'm quite content to just hit the delete key while waiting for it to self-destruct. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 01:11:06 -0500 From: Mary Subject: IN> some ethereal gods and their comparative roles. Generally I've seen Ares portrayed as both as a bully and coward as well as a simple solider--the guy that wants to come home alive and have sex with Aphrodite, make a quick buck looting and isn't too concerned about the big picture. I'm not sure how the the "Hill of Ares" (the court in Athens where important crimes were judged) fits into this image, but hey--I'm only an undergrad. Athena is more the patron of tacticians--carrying an olive branch as well as a spear--I think her epiphets include "defender of cities". She is also considered a pretty good advocate. As a student of classical/homeric greek the most amazing thing about the greek panetheon--particular in comparison to variations of christian mythology, is that the greek gods generally enourage human beings to be independent. Compare, for instance, the story of David and Goliath to the story of Odysseus and Polyphemus. David succeeds through the grace of god. Odysseus suceeds because he is a tricky s.o.b. In a time period where human beings were still trying to figure out why and what it meant to be a human being--this may have not been a bad thing. Check out Gilagamesh "Why shamash (sun deity) why have you given me impossible tasks and the drive to attempt them?" Or even Achilles' frustration--why am I doomed to die here? Are these the questions of a slave of a cruel and petty master, or the questions of a student struggling with a difficult concept? Yes, Zeus was a philanderer--but he was a fertility god--it was his job. Yes they were sometimes petty and jealous, but perhaps this was an advantage in that it made them more understandable. (perhaps this is off the topic, but of all the crimes of the ethereal gods: genocide wasn't one of them. How does adultry and jealousy measure up against the premeditated murder of an entire species?--I'm surprised that no one in the 'daily revelations' has quietly quoted the human epiphet "never again") please reply personally to me by email: mdrozd@hamilton.edu "Eat hot flaming plasmic pulse cannon death, you saucer-alien human-abducting alien bastards!" -- Captain Ano Itai, EAS Dauntless ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 02:12:08 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Hell campaigns> Fufur's World Fufur's World "The Natural Progression of all systems is towards Chaos." The King is dead, Long live the King baby. The Demon Prince of Hardcore was viewed as the joke of Hell for quite some time; like Saminga, Haagenti, and Legion however the jokes of Hell tend to not be funny for either Heaven or the rest of Hell's heirarchy. It is doubtful that the Prince of Darkness believed that Fufur would go as far as he has though and the world has become a mirror image of the mindset of the Demon Prince to the point it may prove impossible for Heaven to turn it away from the frenzy of desparing, creeking, destructive madness that has consumed it. That's cool with the Ayatolla of Rock and Rolla. History It was a form of nightmare for the ancient demons from Asmodeus to Baal to Mammon and the rest to watch the transformation but slowly ever surely as time progressed humanity became more jaded and needing to lash out as millions flocked to Fufur and his agent's call for revolution against the social order. Heaven was unable to prevent the transformation of the planet into chaos and younger demons flocked to Fufur's call for revolution in Hell that resulted in his being awarded the Principality of Discord (Dis) which resembled some twisted combination of Gehenna and Shal-Mari to some but seemed nothing more to the elders as the antithesis of Hades. Now one of the Major Princes Fufur launched a series of brutal raids that won him the respect of much of Hell as Saminga allied himself utterly with the rogue Prince and Haagenti soon followed along with Fleurity, Nybbas, and Beleth. Now one imagined Hardcore however to be any threat for it seemed to be a word that did not correspond to the Princibles Hell understood but as Lucifer fed his disciple the word came to cover all forms of Rebellion, Destruction, and of course Rock and Roll. Lucifer enraptured in the orgy of destruction that his newest and now most powerful disciple caused could not understand that he was dooming himself as Fufur met Laurence in Single Combat and slew the Commander of the Host. Promptly turning on the Prince of Hell. Fufur has impaled the first Balseraph on a series of burning pikes that keep him powerless and in perpetual agony, unable to do anything but suffer Fufur's abuses and obey his commands....occasionally also give the Prince of Hardcore advice though it is doubtful to even Lucifer's most ardent followers that the once ruler of Hell can comprehend the mind of the mad ruler of Hell enough to manipulate him to regaining his throne. Indeed Fufur has the pikes arranged so that Lucifer IS the throne and there to grant the words Fufur desires to his followers when he sits upon him. The World of Corporeality There is no social order and woe be to anyone who attempts to impose such on the world today. Every government institution has long since fallen into disrepair and every city, street, and region surveys by attending to itself and looking out for itself. Roving gangs rule the night mostly serving as a law unto themselves following their own codes of ethics such as they were and take what they desire with rampant abandon. The rich and "haves" still exist in this world to a certain extent and mostly rule by oblique military force and brutal enforcement of their codes. These of course inspire new revolutions and it is not entirely inaccurate to suggest that there is a war between the ages, race, creed, and the like constantly being waged between everyone in the world. Trade has taken over money for the most part as Nybbas's thriving entertainment industry is still running the show with entire regions now devoted to the celebration and encouragement of the madness of mass media. Blood sports and the like are incredibly popular though underground work is infinately more popular than the few provided public works though most would still be amazingly shocking to the majority of men and women on this planet today. In any case if a horror can happen it likely will in Fufur's word but thus far it is localized by the easily amused warlord of Hell though how long this lasts who knows. The Marches Beleth's realm now composes roughly 75% of the Marches and only the permanent fortification of Blandine's tower by the armies of Heaven have prevented the Demon Princess of Nightmares from eradicating her former lover once and for all. Souls flood well into the ranks of a number of ethereal gods as the most violent and destructive of gods have once again taken up places of worship across the world in numbers that approach former methods. The Norse pantheon has recieved the greatest revival as a number of new gods have been sired by Odin with mortal women and his wife. Valhalla is routinely filled now with young raiders who desire to fight for the God in comming ragnarok which Odin is considering allying with Heaven with but only because of how much he has grown to hate the young upstart Bezerker and his tyranical consort Beleth. Athena currently takes refuge as previously unknown gods of Darkness have since destroyed Olympus and a being who claims to be Ares. Hepheatues now serves this new order as the chief weapons maker and his allegiance to fufur along with Pan is unquestioned. The Aztec pantheon along with a number of demons including Fufur himself are once again worshiped in the Mexican penusila with human sacrafices and gifts of increasing depravity. Quezticoatl has been seen but the gods have all declared death to he and any who worships him. Heaven Heaven has seen better days is a statement that could reasonably be stated with a certain ammount of accuracy. Fufur is a violent demon who encourages the worst violence in other beings. Given the transformation of the world back into a state of anarchy most Archangels are in a state of panic. Blandine remains under siege and increasingly dependant on others for protection as her servitors only rarely venture forth and then in massive waves of hope....they are usually brutally supressed. Christopher has also become considerably more street smart though he is little more than a companion of David now and his archangel status is threatened now that childhood is comming gradually to an end. David has had the most sucess in this new world as Fufur has discovered the Lord of Stone willing to get his hands dirty by creating tough, proud, and hard young men who are unwilling to compromise. Thus a number of districts are maintained and places Fufur has no power, he thus far has ignored them in his whimsy. David intends to gradually reconquer the world and he has the patience to do so. The new commander of the Host may just do it. Dominic was slaughtered in a trap by Fufur, Haagenti, and Ophis which was arranged by Asmodeus in hopes that together they could destroy the Renegade prince. Fufur believed this was the ultimate strike against authority and killed Asmodeus not soon after. Eli has completely dissapeared and the last reported sighting of him was ten years ago. Gabriel has returned to Heaven following Dominic's demise and seems quite sane and stable as the hundreds of cruel dissapearences and the death of Belial have given her only new desire to kill Fufur. Janus was surprised as any by Valefor's choosing him for redemption and the Archangels of Wind and Speed work together tirelessly to oppose furfur's new hellish order. Jean failed to destroy Vapula in celestial combat when that being was allowed by Fufur to set off a series of nuclear explosians to test fallout damage. Jordi feels the inner city world choking and has given up his distaste for appearing in cities, it is believed his fall is imminent because many humans have begun to communicate with an "Animal god" who will return the world to a primal state. Khalid with the Fall of Islam to fanatical fighting in Malphas's service now is devoted oddly to pacifism as surely as Novalis believing that only peace can remove the world from it's horrid state. Laurence has been dead for many years now and most of his servitors have retreated to Khalid's service. Marc is now oddly enough Allied with David as Marc has shifted his focus to the Black market and underground trades to supply the righteous with food, weapons, shelter, and other basic necessities in lieu of the luxuries he used to supply. The businessman now has the demeanor of a street hustler but he feels his word is thriving nonthless...or at least doing the good he hoped it would. Michael's street fighting has been intense and despite War has never been stronger with every day a struggle between good and evil for survival. The warrior has only grown stronger staking out many tethers in abandoned factories and abandoning subtely among his angels. Novalis has been replaced by her servitor Alexia the Angel of Ivy as the Archangel of Flowers has passed on to become a minor word bound. Alexia is considerably less forgiving and would not mind the world returning to a primal state that she advocates with Jordi. Zadkiel works especially close with David now Yves is yves. Hell Fufur's imprsionment of Lucifer and the subsequent carnage is infamous as Asmodeus betrayed all of his former Lucifer servitors in exchange for clemency Fufur provided into the form of splattering the treacherous Demon Prince of the Game's head across the board. Asmodeus, Belial, Mammon, and Alaemon all were annhilated in Fufur's purge which has come to be known as the Second Rebellion. Baal suceeded in carving out one of Fufur's eyes however and lead his entire army onto the Earth where they have simply....dissapeared despite Fufur's best efforts to find them. Andrephalus while he detests Fufur is relatively well off as pleasure is at an all time high desire..just it's so primatively crude...oh well yum yum yum! Beleth otherwise known as Fufur's "Goth chick" has become exceptionally powerful in the wake of his ascension and the misery she inflicts nightly on humanity in her vastly expanded marches is amazing even by her own dreams. Fleurity is now a major prince as he cooks up not only "recreational" drugs but also many for survival and aids to physical performance...he's quite content as Fufur's party planner. Haagenti is Hell's new General and the worst part is he's good at it. Allied with Krag the Demon Prince of Looting Haagenti's soldiers are Gluttons for punishment, carnage, and pillage. Andrephalus has a reluctant association with Haagenti now though he prefers to deal with subordinates. Kobal has adjusted fairly well as Fufur's new court jester and most wonder if Kobal isn't somehow related to the Lord of Hardcore's ascension..they're like demented father and son...though whose who is anyone's guess. Kraag the Calabim is the new Demon Prince of Looting and a fallen servitor of Wind and Duke of Valefor. He believes both Archangels have it out for him (he's right) and thus is out to devour them before the other way round happens with Haagenti. Kronos's archives are unmolested mostly but a number of his sevitors have taken on Fufurian roles, they are simply expected to regain their manners talking to him. Lilith hates Fufur and hates being a gang girl but unfortunately she is stuck as the new King of Hell's side and has a powerful geas over him that gaurentees her safety...still life is so much...dreary. Malphas has taken his place in Fufur's new regime and indeed handles most of the day to day administration of Hell though Malphas is quite aware that the Demon Prince of Hardcore could destroy him with a thought and he finds it most annoying. Nybbas's taste in dress is even worse if it can be believed and a bit shabbier but he's taken much of his 20th century Hellish TV to the actual Earth...and he's murderously trying to keep the Demons of Hardcore appeased which in the words of meatloaf "Everything louder than everything else" on the double. Ophis is now Demon Prince of Rebellion as he personally despises Haagenti as the Commander of Hell's army but until he either slays Michael or Baal or both Fufur says he won't be the head...though killing Haagenti is probably far easier and he's also mortally afraid his old commander is going to kill him Saminga loves this new world...just...it need more killing! Fufur is also especially fond of the Demon Prince of the Gun as well but THAT's another story. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 16:02:56 +0000 From: Sam Kington Subject: Uriel reinstating the slain (was: Re: IN> The Crusade of the Sword.) Renaming the thread to avoid any *suggestion* that it's still about Uriel being right or wrong ;-). Earl Wajenberg wrote: [...] > Since he's returning from the Upper Heavens, might he be able > to do something more? Maybe ... reinstate some of the slain? > (To make it interesting, first, he might have to decide who to > resurrect. Then he might need some scrap or essence of their > previous existence to build on. THEN, when they do come back, > they come back just as they were right before they died -- which > is usually not in a mood to listen to apologies.) Just a > suggestion. Ooh, I like this. Of course, he'd have to decide who to bring back with him *before* he came back from the Upper Heavens; and given that I've decided that he doesn't actually know how long he's been away, or anything that has happened during that time, he may make some, ah, *interesting* decisions. But the most interesting point is this: if he can bring Ethereals back from the dead, and he's brought them back from the Upper Heavens, does that imply that they actually a) have souls, and b) met their Destiny? (And if they met their Destiny, why would he bring them back? Perhaps to proselytise the other Ethereals who, as yet, have not?) And if Ethereals have souls, and can meet their Fate, has Hell also been tragically wrong in keeping them alive? After all, Ethereals are created by and dependent on human belief to keep them alive, which means, presumably, that if you killed all the existing Ethereals, they would very soon be replaced by an equal number of Ethereals of equal power (assuming for the moment that killing all the Ethereals had no impact on human belief). At which point it might be in Hell's interest to *keep on killing* the evil Ethereals, and collecting souls that way. Of course, they'd probably be low-grade souls, and while they were alive the Ethereals wouldn't be a patch on their predecessors - they'd have the power, maybe, but not the experience or skills - but Hell has always privileged quantity over quality. Now, all this assumes that if some Ethereals have souls, all Ethereals have souls - which goes against everything that we know. For instance, there are no records of Hell bleeding Ethereal souls for essence in the way they do humans - unless, of course, they end up in the Lower Hells, and all the Essence goes exclusively to Lucifer, which might explain why he has the pre-eminence that he has, and why, say, he can grant Words. (It might explain, also, how God went from being Just Another Ethereal to being God - he tapped into all the dead Ethereal souls.) But what if only *some* Ethereals have souls - the oldest, or the most powerful, or some other criterion? Would they know? Would others know? Could you recognise an Ethereal with a soul on sight, or by some other means? Why haven't Malakim ever picked this up - do all Ethereals resonate pretty much the same way, the same as Celestials do? Could it be, in fact, that nobody has made the connection between powerful Ethereals and souls because a) no Celestials (apart from God and Lucifer) ever see the souls end up in Heaven/Hell, and/or because b) the Ethereals wouldn't trust Celestial's account of such a process? In the same way that ordinary humans don't know about reincarnation, Fate and Destiny because nobody ever tells them, and there's no way they can normally find out beforehand? (And if Ethereal souls only either dissipate or go to the Upper Heavens / Lower Hells, the only people who ever go *there* are God, Lucifer, and potentially, for the Lower Hells, lost demons who probably don't understand what they've stumbled across, or aren't allowed to stumble across them in the first place.) So word would never get out. Unless, of course, someone who is neither of these comes *back*. For instance, Uriel. Sam - -- Home page: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ INWO Homebrew: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/inwo/ "Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." - Will Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 16:21:11 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Lucifer's pad Hey guys I'm describing Lucifer's palace in the Lower Hells (Where in my game the infamous throne of Black Iron rests) I was curious if anyone had any suggestions on how to describe this place for the suitable creepy, horrofic, and/or understated evil of the Prince of Darkness. Your input would really help. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 14:52:03 -0600 (CST) From: Benjamin Acosta Subject: IN> Re: The Crusade of the Sword - The Pen, Mightier Than the Sword? Nybbas, Prince of the Media, was not in a happy mood. "Those backstabbing bastards! How dare they walk out on us like that. We had a contract! No one, and I mean no one, walks out on Hell like that and gets away with it. It's time we remind these dreamshades who the bosses are around here." "What are we going to do, boss?" "We're going to play hardball, that's what. First thing we'll do is cancel Lord of the Rings. I don't care how many strings we have to pull, that picture ain't coming to a theater near you. That ought to show those elves the power of the Media. Next, I want a new movie about Camelot made. One that'll drag those chivalrous bastards through the mud. We'll promote it as a gritty, more realistic portrayal of Authurian legend, that goes for historical authenticity. The critics will eat it up." "What about Auberon and his crew, boss?" "That's easy. We've already got that horror picture "Faeries" in the works, for our Unseelie pals. We'll just up the promotion budget and guarantee the sequels. And we'll make another sequel to Leprechaun while were at it. Straight-to-video, of course." "Of course, boss." "Good. And let's be proactive as well. I want our people to lean on the August Prosperity Collective, just in case they're getting any ideas. Put the word out that unless they stay on our side, all that juicy anime essence just might suddenly dry up. That ought to keep them in line. And drop the hint there might be bonuses for any of them who stops another from bolting. Just to give them an incentive." "Gotcha, boss." "I'll show those Ethereals you don't cross the Prince of the Media. When I'm through with them, they'll never work in this Symphony again!" Ben, Elohite of Eli Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 22:11:17 -0500 From: EDG Subject: IN> The In Nomine Collection Hi folks, I'm in the middle of a major restructuring and update for the In Nomine Collection. (To be more specific, I'm redesigning the directory tree and uploading 80+ pieces of new content.) Hopefully, this is going to make it easier for a) you to navigate, and b) me to update. To facilitate this, the INC will be offline, effective immediately, until Monday morning at 8:00, at the latest. I appreciate your understanding. Hopefully, with this done, I'll be able to get maintenance of the INC back on track. Comments, questions, flames, and volunteered content should be directed to me PRIVATELY at edg@sjgames.com. Cheers, EDG ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 04:34:44 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Re: The Crusade of the Sword - The Pen, Mightier Than the Sword? "I woke up to the sound of knocking on my office door, spilling an empty bottle or three to the floor as I snapped up from the desk. I was just about to yell at my secretary about letting people disturb me before noon when the blackwing who'd been knocking decided to give up on courtesy and just storm on in. "I figured I was done for - I'd seen the footage of what had happened in that nutcase Uriel's crusade, but even if I couldn't win, I decided to go down fighting. I was just about to reach for the heater unde rmy desk, when the malakite on the other side shook his head. ""There is no need for us to fight each other," he said to me, "For I already know what I need to know about you. Although you have worked with the Media and Hell, it was out of a desire for self-preservation, rather than malice toward humanity. Indeed, despite all that Nybbas has done to pervert the dreams which gave you form, you still have inspired humans to do that which is right and just, no matter the cost. And so I have a job to offer you..." "So that's why I'm here, Michael. Laurence said we'd have plenty to talk about before I signed on with your outfit. Oh, and here's my card: The One Good Man, private investigator. My usual fee if one Essence per day, plus expenses, but if it means I can stick it to that clown Nybbas, I'm willing to waive it." ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2036 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.